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A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS ABOUT POWER SUPPLIES.

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July 8, 2006 2:54:31 PM

Hello,

Below at the bottom is my what I have in my computer right now. My computer works fine. I just bought a ATI X1800 xt and will arrive at my house next week. The power supply I own is a Thermaltake 430W
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E1681...

My question is:

1. Will my Power Supply be able to handle the new card?
2. How can you tell if you have enough power?
3. What happens when you dont have enough power? and can it damage your PC?

I hope someone can answer all my questions. Also I have ASUS Probe program. Does it tell you if you dont have enough power and how do you read the graph on the power tab?

Iwas thinking of upgrading to this power suppl to the link below (500W). do you think it is worth it.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E1681...

Thanks for looking


ATI Radeon X800 XL
AMD Athlon 64 3500+
ASUS A8V-E Deluxe Socket 939

Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Xtreme 7.1
CORSAIR XMS 2GB RAM (4 x 512MB)
Western Digital Raptor 74GB 10,000 RPM
Western Digital Caviar 250GB 7200 RPM

Pioneer DVD + - DL Burner Black IDE
NEC Black 3.5" Internal Floppy Drive
Thermaltake ATX 430W Power Supply
Thermaltake Tsunami Black Aluminum ATX Mid Tower

ViewSonic VX924 Black/Silver 19" LCD Monitor
Logitech Z-2300 200 watts RMS 2.1 Speaker
Logitech MX518 - 1600 dpi Wired Optical Mouse
Logitech Media Elite Black Wired Keyboard
Related resources
July 8, 2006 9:57:12 PM

Yes it will! I run quite the same config as yours (but all is OCed, so draws more current than yours) with a 350W PSU and the X18xx-X19xx don't require 100W more than X800 (about 50).
July 8, 2006 10:27:01 PM

The main thing you need to keep an eye on are your 12V rail(s) which mainly run your video and cpu. The 1900XTX uses about 120-130W..... what 350W psu are you using?
July 9, 2006 2:52:52 PM

Quote:
Yes it will! I run quite the same config as yours (but all is OCed, so draws more current than yours) with a 350W PSU and the X18xx-X19xx don't require 100W more than X800 (about 50).


you have an Antec Smartpower right?
July 9, 2006 3:36:48 PM

Should run that setup....
July 9, 2006 5:50:50 PM

Quote:
Should run that setup....


single rail @ 18 amps? i think not. that raptop wil juice the power out of the system, and the X1800XT will aid in sucking all the amps dry.

I would test it but i wouldnt trust it.
July 9, 2006 7:04:00 PM

yeah.... about 220W from that rail will run that setup. The CPU only comsumes about 50-60W while the video card is around 100.
July 9, 2006 7:31:48 PM

Quote:
yeah.... about 220W from that rail will run that setup. The CPU only comsumes about 50-60W while the video card is around 100.


it should, he'll have problems in a year or so. thermaltake PSU's arent on par with Antec quality.
July 9, 2006 7:35:35 PM

Oh, don't get me wrong.... I would never recommend to somone to buy that psu. But the one he has should work, atleast for a while.... I would reccomend FSP/Sparkle, Seasonic, Antec.....
July 9, 2006 8:48:20 PM

Quote:
What happens when you dont have enough power? and can it damage your PC?


I know that an underpowered PS can take other components with it when it dies - because it's happened to me and I've seen it happened to others. I don't know how likely a dying PS is to kill other components but I'd guess it's less than 30% of the time. Talk to your favorite tech and chances are he/she will list the PS as one of the more common component failures that repair shops see. Cheap caps age fairly quickly and things can go south from there.

Quote:
Also I have ASUS Probe program. Does it tell you if you dont have enough power and how do you read the graph on the power tab?


I would not trust any onboard measurements. If you don't have a decent multimeter, get or borrow one and measure your voltages on the 24-pin plug. I would measure the +12V with minimal components installed (PS, mobo, CPU, old GPU, one stick RAM, OS HD). Next, install the new GPU and you might need to temporarily plug in the optical to get drivers loaded, etc. Then unplug the optical and meaure the +12V again. Opinions differ as to miniumum acceptable +12V. I start feeling uncomfortable if it dips below 11.85, some people don't worry till it gets down near 11.7. If all is OK, begin adding the rest of your peripherals one at a time then measure the +12V. I've intentionally forced some PS's into overload to study their behavior and one thing I've seen is that ripple begins to increase in some units as they approach failure.

You can get a decent clamp-on current measuring device for under $25 but I'd go for a $50 meter if you can handle the investment. You can also get inexpensive devices that you plug into the wall socket to measure the AC current drawn by your PS. If wither the voltage behavior or the current measured are pushing the limits, you might want to upgrade. Remember, PS's age and they deliver less wattage when hot.
July 9, 2006 9:18:04 PM

Quote:
What happens when you dont have enough power? and can it damage your PC?


I know that an underpowered PS can take other components with it when it dies - because it's happened to me and I've seen it happened to others. I don't know how likely a dying PS is to kill other components but I'd guess it's less than 30% of the time. Talk to your favorite tech and chances are he/she will list the PS as one of the more common component failures that repair shops see. Cheap caps age fairly quickly and things can go south from there.

Quote:
Also I have ASUS Probe program. Does it tell you if you dont have enough power and how do you read the graph on the power tab?


I would not trust any onboard measurements. If you don't have a decent multimeter, get or borrow one and measure your voltages on the 24-pin plug. I would measure the +12V with minimal components installed (PS, mobo, CPU, old GPU, one stick RAM, OS HD). Next, install the new GPU and you might need to temporarily plug in the optical to get drivers loaded, etc. Then unplug the optical and meaure the +12V again. Opinions differ as to miniumum acceptable +12V. I start feeling uncomfortable if it dips below 11.85, some people don't worry till it gets down near 11.7. If all is OK, begin adding the rest of your peripherals one at a time then measure the +12V. I've intentionally forced some PS's into overload to study their behavior and one thing I've seen is that ripple begins to increase in some units as they approach failure.

You can get a decent clamp-on current measuring device for under $25 but I'd go for a $50 meter if you can handle the investment. You can also get inexpensive devices that you plug into the wall socket to measure the AC current drawn by your PS. If wither the voltage behavior or the current measured are pushing the limits, you might want to upgrade. Remember, PS's age and they deliver less wattage when hot.

I want to upgrade to this power supply to the link below (500W). do you think it is worth it. Iam going to buy it now.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E1681...
July 9, 2006 11:11:20 PM

If you don't ever want to SLI anything or over clock... it will be fine..... otherwise.... you should go with something that has either 3-4 12V rails, or 1 36+ amp 12V rail. That PSU only has a max of 168W on 12V1 and 180W on 12V2..... since 12V2 is supposed to be for the CPU, then 12V is for the video card, and if you have an SLI setup or Xfire and OC you would have issues.
July 9, 2006 11:17:47 PM

IMHO... I would suggest you inquire about the Antec TruePowerII 550 watt PSU available thru NewEgg for $89...
Very good quality PSU at reasonable pricing...
It is powering my PC, and before it was the TPII 430watt PSU...
My specs...
Lian Li PC-60plus Black Aluminum Case (w/TR-3B Black Thermometer/Fan Controller 3.5” bay and a L.I.S.2 (5.5” bay USB LCD Fan Controller))
Opteron 175 (OC’d 2x 2.64 GHz, 2MB cache, Socket 939, .09 micron, E6 stepping, OSA175DAA6CD)
ThermalTake BigWater 745 liquid cooling system complete kit
Asus A8R32-MVP Motherboard (ATI Radeon Xpress 3200 CrossFire, socket 939, SATA2)
HiS X1800XT Graphics Card (625 MHz/700 MHz OC core/1500 Mhz/1600 MHz OC mem, Dual DL-DVI VIVO 512 MB PCIe)
ATI TV Theater 550 PRO Tuner (PCI TV and FM Tuner)
4x 512MB Corsair Micro Xpert DDR RAM (2.5-3-3-8-2T (spd 2-2-2-5-1T) TwinXP 1024-3200XL)
2x 74gig Western Digital Raptor Hard Drives RAID-0 (WD740GD RAID0 150gig Boot Drive)
2x 250gig Western Digital Caviar SE16 Hard Drives (WD2500KS storage and data)
Plextor 716AL Black 16x DVD/CD Burner (IDE slot loading type)
Antec TP-II 550 Power Supply (550 Watt ATX12V v2.0 PSU)
Dell 2405FPW 24-inch LCD Monitor (UltraSharp Wide Aspect Flat Panel Display)
Logitech G-15 Gaming Keyboard
Logitech Cordless Optical TrackMan
Case Fans (PanaFlo 120mm intake, Adda 120mm exhaust blower, PanaFlo 120mm internal circulatory Fan, PanaFlo 92mm exhaust and PanaFlo 80mm Fan)

FYI only...

Benchmarking hits pretty high according to FutureMark’s results ~ 5,040 3DMarks06 and 10,900 marks in 3DMark05.

Actual Power Draw from wall outlet plug...
Measurements and Analysis of Power Draw consumed from this Opteron PC using Kill-a-Watt meter.
Based on a brief quick test, and several follow-ups, I preclude that my AMD Opteron rig when over-clocked at 2420MHz from 2200MHz consumes:
≤ 200 Watts at Idle
≤ 250 Watts during Boot Up
and
≤ 350 Watts at maximum load when benchmarking using 3DMark06 (at 75% efficiency, my PC is requiring ≈ 265 watts of true power from my power supply)
Note: This is only the PC measured at outlet from the Power Supply; my LCD Monitor was not measured per these results.
July 10, 2006 12:15:50 AM

Quote:
I want to upgrade to this power supply to the link below (500W). do you think it is worth it. Iam going to buy it now.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E1681...


I'd myself avoid the TT based on mediocre reviews, but do know it also has some strong reviews by credible sources. You might look at this FSP or this OCZ in that price range. My son has that OCZ on an Opty 146/1900XT rig and it handles the load with ease. I have not used that FSP but the reviews are solid. Many here are loyal to Antec but I've been burned deep by their PS and will avoid them like the plague.
July 10, 2006 2:33:55 AM

Quote:
If you don't ever want to SLI anything or over clock... it will be fine..... otherwise.... you should go with something that has either 3-4 12V rails, or 1 36+ amp 12V rail. That PSU only has a max of 168W on 12V1 and 180W on 12V2..... since 12V2 is supposed to be for the CPU, then 12V is for the video card, and if you have an SLI setup or Xfire and OC you would have issues.


I am not using SLI setup, Xfire, or OC. I went ahead and bought the Thermaltake 500w because of the reviews from other websites. Antec has already screwed me once with a computer at my office, (fried my whole motherboard and psu) SLi and Xfire are going to be a thing of the past verry soon. If you check out some of the VGA charts. SLi doesnt make that big of difference on alot of games. waist of money.

The future is going to be more tha one processor on the mother board. AMD is planning on having 9 micro processors on a motherboard within a couple of years. that is the future. It will make a bigger impact than haveing 2-3 video cards.
July 10, 2006 4:20:23 AM

yes I agree SLI/Xfire is pretty pointless.... some people still choose to go that route regardless. Just a thought, incase you were one of those people.
July 10, 2006 5:10:19 AM

Quote:
If you don't ever want to SLI anything or over clock... it will be fine..... otherwise.... you should go with something that has either 3-4 12V rails, or 1 36+ amp 12V rail. That PSU only has a max of 168W on 12V1 and 180W on 12V2..... since 12V2 is supposed to be for the CPU, then 12V is for the video card, and if you have an SLI setup or Xfire and OC you would have issues.


I am not using SLI setup, Xfire, or OC. I went ahead and bought the Thermaltake 500w because of the reviews from other websites. Antec has already screwed me once with a computer at my office, (fried my whole motherboard and psu) SLi and Xfire are going to be a thing of the past verry soon. If you check out some of the VGA charts. SLi doesnt make that big of difference on alot of games. waist of money.

The future is going to be more tha one processor on the mother board. AMD is planning on having 9 micro processors on a motherboard within a couple of years. that is the future. It will make a bigger impact than haveing 2-3 video cards.

The 500w Thermaltake PSU has two 12v rails. The first is for your CPU with 14amps of power and the second is for your new x1800XT supplying 15amps of power.

+3.3V@30A, +5V@28A, +12V1@14A, +12V2@15A, -12V@0.3A, +5VSB@2A


The Antec Smartpower 2 500w Penqin suggested has the following specs and is $69:

+3.3V@32A, +5V@35A, +12V1@17A, +12V2@19A, -12V@0.3A, +5VSB@2A

And the Antec Truepower 550w Rich suggested for $89 is better yet where raw power to power your video card you were asking about is concerned:

+3.3V@32A, +5V@40A, +12V1@19A, +12V2@19A, -12V@1A, +5VSB@2A

I'm just glad you're not my accountant.
July 10, 2006 4:35:35 PM

Quote:
hell no.

that POS thermaltake PSU sucks.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E1681...

cheaper. better.


spring 30USD more and get one of those new Hiper PSU, very good.

absolutely not worth it.

I have had that power supply fo r a year with no problems. Ihave had many porblems with antecs and so has my friends. I changed my order and just bought this one off of newegg.com Thermaltake Toughpower 600w

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E1681...

People keep recommending th Antec because it has more amps on 1v21 and 12v2. But I talked to ATI tech support and they said all you need is a 450w power supply and at 12 amps on 12v1 and 12v2. and any more amperage thatn that wont make a difference.
July 10, 2006 5:30:10 PM

pssst i think pengwin works for antec.... 8)

IMO I don't think the psu you have will work, 18amps x 12v = 216w.

216w will not be enough to power your cpu, mb, ram, video card and hdds.

You need at least 24 amps on the 12v rail. Remember that if you have more than one you can't just add them together.
July 10, 2006 5:42:05 PM

Quote:
pssst i think pengwin works for antec.... 8)

IMO I don't think the psu you have will work, 18amps x 12v = 216w.

216w will not be enough to power your cpu, mb, ram, video card and hdds.

You need at least 24 amps on the 12v rail. Remember that if you have more than one you can't just add them together.


I just bought this one off of newegg.com Thermaltake Toughpower 600w

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E1681...
July 10, 2006 5:48:03 PM

Quote:
hell no.

that POS thermaltake PSU sucks.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E1681...

cheaper. better.


spring 30USD more and get one of those new Hiper PSU, very good.

absolutely not worth it.

I have had that power supply fo r a year with no problems. Ihave had many porblems with antecs and so has my friends. I changed my order and just bought this one off of newegg.com Thermaltake Toughpower 600w

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E1681...

People keep recommending th Antec because it has more amps on 1v21 and 12v2. But I talked to ATI tech support and they said all you need is a 450w power supply and at 12 amps on 12v1 and 12v2. and any more amperage thatn that wont make a difference.

you are right, it wont make a difference until you add more things to your system and there is a larger power need.

also after a few years PSU's go down in efficency, they get worse, slowly. if u get a high amperage one now, u dont have to worry, you can never have too big of a PSU.


@waylander, i wish i worked for antec, free antec sutff ^_^, but i dont, i've had good experiences with their products.
July 10, 2006 6:04:37 PM

I've personally never had any problems with thermaltake, except my 600w couldn't power my system so had to get a silverstone 750w (well, didn't HAVE to as I just needed more amps not power, but I WANTED to..).

I like antecs as well, one of my 4 home computers is built on antec case/psu and I just build a comp for a work buddy with the sonata II and i'll probably use it for another two in the next month.
July 10, 2006 6:44:14 PM

Quote:
pssst i think pengwin works for antec.... 8)


Nothing wrong with brand loyalty. If you want to see real fervor, look for someone that's been burned, like me with nvidia.
July 10, 2006 6:56:57 PM

Quote:
pssst i think pengwin works for antec.... 8)


Nothing wrong with brand loyalty. If you want to see real fervor, look for someone that's been burned, like me with nvidia.

omg, i am an nvidia fanboy, not a big one, but a fan boy none the less. i mean if ATi can give better preformance for a better price ill get ATi but i'd rather have nvidia
July 10, 2006 7:18:51 PM

Quote:
pssst i think pengwin works for antec.... 8)


Nothing wrong with brand loyalty. If you want to see real fervor, look for someone that's been burned, like me with nvidia.

omg, i am an nvidia fanboy, not a big one, but a fan boy none the less. i mean if ATi can give better preformance for a better price ill get ATi but i'd rather have nvidia

I hear you on that. My first real nvidia experience was setting up a bunch of boxes for an imaging work group. I bought something like 30 nvidia GPUs - the setup was trivial and everyone was so happy with the image quality and speed. So i stayed loyal for a long time until my 7900 fiasco. That was so painful, I get a tic in my eye every time I see an eVga advertisement.
July 10, 2006 8:38:11 PM

Nvidia has yet to fail me, i use BFG, friend uses evga hes satisfied, i like BFG.
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