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Roaming partner in San Bernardino County, California?

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Anonymous
October 23, 2004 1:20:05 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.sprintpcs,alt.cellular.cingular,alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

Anyone know who provides analog roaming to Sprint customers in the Los Angeles
market, specifically in San Bernardino County? I have a sneaking suspicion that
it's Cingular, but am not 100% sure. (It could be Verizon too, though. But
given that Verizon has stopped building out analog and given that they have
almost no analog capacity in this part of SBD County, I'm pretty sure it's
*not* Verizon.)

Also, I was curious if there are any Cingular customers posting to the Cingular
newsgroup from the Apple Valley or Victorville, CA. Specifically, I'm curious
about Cingular coverage between National Trails Highway (old US 66) and US 395
on Air Expressway.

--
JustThe.net Internet & New Media Services, http://JustThe.net/
Steven J. Sobol, Geek In Charge / 888.480.4NET (4638) / sjsobol@JustThe.net
PGP Key available from your friendly local key server (0xE3AE35ED)
Apple Valley, California Nothing scares me anymore. I have three kids.
October 23, 2004 8:37:36 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.sprintpcs,alt.cellular.cingular,alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

Steve Sobol wrote:
> Anyone know who provides analog roaming to Sprint customers in the
> Los Angeles market, specifically in San Bernardino County? I have a
> sneaking suspicion that it's Cingular, but am not 100% sure. (It
> could be Verizon too, though. But given that Verizon has stopped
> building out analog and given that they have almost no analog
> capacity in this part of SBD County, I'm pretty sure it's *not*
> Verizon.)
>
> Also, I was curious if there are any Cingular customers posting to
> the Cingular newsgroup from the Apple Valley or Victorville, CA.
> Specifically, I'm curious about Cingular coverage between National
> Trails Highway (old US 66) and US 395 on Air Expressway.

Probably Verizon as Cingular has always been GSM in California.
Anonymous
October 23, 2004 8:37:37 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.sprintpcs,alt.cellular.cingular,alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

Rod wrote:

> Steve Sobol wrote:
>
>>Anyone know who provides analog roaming to Sprint customers in the
>>Los Angeles market, specifically in San Bernardino County? I have a
>>sneaking suspicion that it's Cingular, but am not 100% sure. (It
>>could be Verizon too, though. But given that Verizon has stopped
>>building out analog and given that they have almost no analog
>>capacity in this part of SBD County, I'm pretty sure it's *not*
>>Verizon.)
>>
>>Also, I was curious if there are any Cingular customers posting to
>>the Cingular newsgroup from the Apple Valley or Victorville, CA.
>>Specifically, I'm curious about Cingular coverage between National
>>Trails Highway (old US 66) and US 395 on Air Expressway.
>
>
> Probably Verizon as Cingular has always been GSM in California.
>

I agree with Rod. What's now Cingular in California began in 1997 as Pac
Bell Mobile. It's an all-GSM1900 system.
According to Andrew Shepherd's maps, ATTWS is the A-side carrier in San
Bernardino County and Verizon is the B-side carrier.
Have you received an analog signal (or a digital roam 800CDMA signal) in
the places you mention? Can you put your phone in field debug mode to
reveal a SID number? Or call 611 and see who answers?

--
Frank Harris in San Francisco with an A680
October 23, 2004 1:18:10 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.sprintpcs,alt.cellular.cingular,alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

On Fri, 22 Oct 2004 21:20:05 -0700, Steve Sobol <sjsobol@JustThe.net>
wrote:

>Anyone know who provides analog roaming to Sprint customers in the Los Angeles
>market, specifically in San Bernardino County? I have a sneaking suspicion that
>it's Cingular, but am not 100% sure.

San Bernardino? Absolutely not possible that it's cingular
considering that cingular in California was the successor to Pacific
Bell PCS a *GSM* operator.

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Anonymous
October 23, 2004 1:42:09 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.sprintpcs,alt.cellular.cingular,alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

Frank Harris wrote:

>> Probably Verizon as Cingular has always been GSM in California.
>
> I agree with Rod. What's now Cingular in California began in 1997 as Pac
> Bell Mobile. It's an all-GSM1900 system.

Duh, I forgot about that. Of course, that doesn't preclude them from putting up
analog towers too, for roamers.

> According to Andrew Shepherd's maps, ATTWS is the A-side carrier in San
> Bernardino County and Verizon is the B-side carrier.

That'd be correct.

> Have you received an analog signal (or a digital roam 800CDMA signal) in
> the places you mention? Can you put your phone in field debug mode to
> reveal a SID number? Or call 611 and see who answers?

Well, in the area I referred to I have basically no digital signal, from Air
Expressway just east of Village Drive down to old Route 66 (National Trails
Highway) down into Victorville's Old Town neighborhood, D Street just past
I-15. I don't have problems elsewhere, and can use my Sprint phone at my house
out on the edge of town where my Verizon phone was basically unusable. Out on
the eastern part of Air Expressway, there's nothing... no houses, no
businesses, nothing except a junkyard, so I suspect that Sprint has little
incentive to put a tower there. But my father-in-law's T-Mobile phone works,
and he'd be using Cingular towers if he's using his phone here in California.
(Of course, he's not using the phone in analog.)

I have Fair & Flexible, but I'd need to pay the additional five bucks per month
for F&F America in order to not pay roaming charges; right now if I try to make
an analog call I get charged 50c/minute, so I'm not real keen on experimentation :) 

--
JustThe.net Internet & New Media Services, http://JustThe.net/
Steven J. Sobol, Geek In Charge / 888.480.4NET (4638) / sjsobol@JustThe.net
PGP Key available from your friendly local key server (0xE3AE35ED)
Apple Valley, California Nothing scares me anymore. I have three kids.
Anonymous
October 23, 2004 2:36:32 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.sprintpcs,alt.cellular.cingular,alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

Steve,
It isn't Cingular. They aren't analog in CA.

If you have the latest PRL, 10025, your phone will search for Verizon
digital first, then Verizon analog. Previous PRL's would have either found
AT&T analog eventually, or may have searched for AT&T analog first. AT&T is
not in 10025.

Bill Radio
Click for Western U.S. Wireless Reviews at:
http://www.mountainwireless.com



"Steve Sobol" <sjsobol@JustThe.net> wrote in message
news:clcm8e$u0b$1@ratbert.glorb.com...
> Anyone know who provides analog roaming to Sprint customers in the Los
Angeles
> market, specifically in San Bernardino County?
Anonymous
October 23, 2004 2:36:33 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.sprintpcs,alt.cellular.cingular,alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

Bill Radio wrote:
> Steve,
> It isn't Cingular. They aren't analog in CA.
>
> If you have the latest PRL, 10025, your phone will search for Verizon
> digital first, then Verizon analog.

Well, Verizon digital works on that side of Middle Of Nowheresville... just not
real well (ok, not at all) in my corner of town. Maybe I should pay the extra
money and have usable service heading out towards Adelanto...

**SJS (making a mental note to call and have my phone flagged for a PRL update)

--
JustThe.net Internet & New Media Services, http://JustThe.net/
Steven J. Sobol, Geek In Charge / 888.480.4NET (4638) / sjsobol@JustThe.net
PGP Key available from your friendly local key server (0xE3AE35ED)
Apple Valley, California Nothing scares me anymore. I have three kids.
Anonymous
October 23, 2004 2:55:46 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.sprintpcs, alt.cellular.cingular, alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

Steve,

First of all like others have said it is not Cingular. They have no
licenses to put up any analog coverage and have never used analog here
in CA or NV.

Sprint's one and only roaming partner for San Bernardino County is the
same as it is for all of So. California. It's Verizon. AT&T has never
been useable (without a credit card) as there have never been any
roaming agreements between them & Sprint here in So. Cal.
Anonymous
October 23, 2004 9:26:12 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.sprintpcs,alt.cellular.cingular,alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

On Sat, 23 Oct 2004 09:42:09 -0700, Steve Sobol <sjsobol@JustThe.net>
wrote:

>Duh, I forgot about that. Of course, that doesn't preclude them from putting up
>analog towers too, for roamers.

I don't think there's much of a business case for putting up towers
just to serve roaming customers. Roaming business only makes sense
when the towers first serve your own customers and then *also* serve
roaming customers for an additional fee.

jc
Anonymous
October 23, 2004 9:26:13 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.sprintpcs,alt.cellular.cingular,alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

JC Dill wrote:

>>Duh, I forgot about that. Of course, that doesn't preclude them from putting up
>>analog towers too, for roamers.
>
> I don't think there's much of a business case for putting up towers
> just to serve roaming customers.

Used to be big business; may or may not be as much of an issue now.



--
JustThe.net Internet & New Media Services, http://JustThe.net/
Steven J. Sobol, Geek In Charge / 888.480.4NET (4638) / sjsobol@JustThe.net
PGP Key available from your friendly local key server (0xE3AE35ED)
Apple Valley, California Nothing scares me anymore. I have three kids.
October 23, 2004 10:16:51 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.sprintpcs,alt.cellular.cingular,alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

On Sat, 23 Oct 2004 09:42:09 -0700, Steve Sobol <sjsobol@JustThe.net>
wrote:

>> I agree with Rod. What's now Cingular in California began in 1997 as Pac
>> Bell Mobile. It's an all-GSM1900 system.
>
>Duh, I forgot about that. Of course, that doesn't preclude them from putting up
>analog towers too, for roamers.

Uh, Steve it sure does if they don't have that spectrum assigned to
them. Perhaps when they become one with AT&T Wireless that will be a
different story. However, we are dealing with the here and now not
what may be a year or two from now.
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Anonymous
October 23, 2004 10:28:26 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.sprintpcs,alt.cellular.cingular,alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

Joseph wrote:

> Uh, Steve it sure does if they don't have that spectrum assigned to
> them.

*blink*

Yeah, that would be a problem, wouldn't it.

--
JustThe.net Internet & New Media Services, http://JustThe.net/
Steven J. Sobol, Geek In Charge / 888.480.4NET (4638) / sjsobol@JustThe.net
PGP Key available from your friendly local key server (0xE3AE35ED)
Apple Valley, California Nothing scares me anymore. I have three kids.
Anonymous
October 24, 2004 6:28:09 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.sprintpcs,alt.cellular.cingular,alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

[POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]

In <cle1nh$5tk$1@ratbert.glorb.com> on Sat, 23 Oct 2004 09:42:09 -0700, Steve
Sobol <sjsobol@JustThe.net> wrote:

>Frank Harris wrote:
>
>>> Probably Verizon as Cingular has always been GSM in California.
>>
>> I agree with Rod. What's now Cingular in California began in 1997 as Pac
>> Bell Mobile. It's an all-GSM1900 system.
>
>Duh, I forgot about that. Of course, that doesn't preclude them from putting up
>analog towers too, for roamers.

Actually it does, since Cingular doesn't have the correct spectrum.

--
Best regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES:
John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular&gt;
Anonymous
October 24, 2004 6:28:10 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.sprintpcs,alt.cellular.cingular,alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

John Navas wrote:

> Actually it does, since Cingular doesn't have the correct spectrum.

Yes... you and Joe are both right, I was being stupid. GSM at 850... it is 850,
isn't it?... GSM at 850 is a relatively new occurrence...


--
JustThe.net Internet & New Media Services, http://JustThe.net/
Steven J. Sobol, Geek In Charge / 888.480.4NET (4638) / sjsobol@JustThe.net
PGP Key available from your friendly local key server (0xE3AE35ED)
Apple Valley, California Nothing scares me anymore. I have three kids.
Anonymous
October 24, 2004 6:28:11 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.sprintpcs,alt.cellular.cingular,alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

Steve Sobol wrote:
> John Navas wrote:
>
>> Actually it does, since Cingular doesn't have the correct spectrum.
>
>
> Yes... you and Joe are both right, I was being stupid. GSM at 850... it
> is 850, isn't it?... GSM at 850 is a relatively new occurrence...

And actually, I'm not sure that having a license for 850MHz means anything. How
exactly does this work, legally speaking? Did the FCC specifically start
handing out 850MHz licenses or does an "800MHz" license actually cover a range
of frequencies instead of just 800?

**SJS

--
JustThe.net Internet & New Media Services, http://JustThe.net/
Steven J. Sobol, Geek In Charge / 888.480.4NET (4638) / sjsobol@JustThe.net
PGP Key available from your friendly local key server (0xE3AE35ED)
Apple Valley, California Nothing scares me anymore. I have three kids.
Anonymous
October 24, 2004 6:36:18 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.sprintpcs,alt.cellular.cingular,alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

[POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]

In <clf4bh$d05$1@ratbert.glorb.com> on Sat, 23 Oct 2004 19:33:10 -0700, Steve
Sobol <sjsobol@JustThe.net> wrote:

>John Navas wrote:
>
>> Actually it does, since Cingular doesn't have the correct spectrum.
>
>Yes... you and Joe are both right, I was being stupid. GSM at 850... it is 850,
>isn't it?... GSM at 850 is a relatively new occurrence...

And does not exist with Cingular in California, where it has only 1900 MHz
spectrum.

--
Best regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES:
John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular&gt;
Anonymous
October 24, 2004 10:36:05 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.sprintpcs,alt.cellular.cingular,alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

"Steve Sobol" <sjsobol@JustThe.net> wrote in message
news:clcm8e$u0b$1@ratbert.glorb.com...
> Anyone know who provides analog roaming to Sprint customers in the Los
Angeles
> market, specifically in San Bernardino County? I have a sneaking suspicion
that
> it's Cingular, but am not 100% sure. (It could be Verizon too, though. But
> given that Verizon has stopped building out analog and given that they
have
> almost no analog capacity in this part of SBD County, I'm pretty sure it's
> *not* Verizon.)
>
> Also, I was curious if there are any Cingular customers posting to the
Cingular
> newsgroup from the Apple Valley or Victorville, CA. Specifically, I'm
curious
> about Cingular coverage between National Trails Highway (old US 66) and US
395
> on Air Expressway.

Steve.....Don't forget that Verizon has two MAJOR customers it serves on
Analog......The state of California Highway Call-Boxes and "On-Star"
It's no wonder why their analog system is still serving all those "off the
beaten path" areas....and probably will for sometime.

..
Anonymous
October 24, 2004 10:41:28 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.sprintpcs,alt.cellular.cingular,alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

In article <tv4ln0lj1j5jpiu3hdkondvqk3hcmdldc2@4ax.com>,
JC Dill <jcdill04@sonic.net> wrote:
>On Sat, 23 Oct 2004 09:42:09 -0700, Steve Sobol <sjsobol@JustThe.net>
>wrote:
>
>>Duh, I forgot about that. Of course, that doesn't preclude them from
>putting up
>>analog towers too, for roamers.
>
>I don't think there's much of a business case for putting up towers
>just to serve roaming customers. Roaming business only makes sense
>when the towers first serve your own customers and then *also* serve
>roaming customers for an additional fee.

If Cingular in CA is only 1900MHz, then they cannot provide analog, since
there is no analog on the PCS band. Only digital of one flavor or another.
When they merge with AT&T Wireless, then the combined company will have
850MHz (cellular band) service.
Anonymous
October 24, 2004 11:14:36 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.sprintpcs,alt.cellular.cingular,alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

[POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]

In <clf4ir$d05$2@ratbert.glorb.com> on Sat, 23 Oct 2004 19:37:04 -0700, Steve
Sobol <sjsobol@JustThe.net> wrote:

>Steve Sobol wrote:
>> John Navas wrote:
>>
>>> Actually it does, since Cingular doesn't have the correct spectrum.
>>
>> Yes... you and Joe are both right, I was being stupid. GSM at 850... it
>> is 850, isn't it?... GSM at 850 is a relatively new occurrence...
>
>And actually, I'm not sure that having a license for 850MHz means anything. How
>exactly does this work, legally speaking? Did the FCC specifically start
>handing out 850MHz licenses or does an "800MHz" license actually cover a range
>of frequencies instead of just 800?

It's a range of frequencies, the same frequencies for TDMA/AMPS 800 as for GSM
850. See <http://www.gsmworld.com/technology/spectrum/frequencies...;

--
Best regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES:
John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular&gt;
Anonymous
October 24, 2004 11:21:57 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.sprintpcs,alt.cellular.cingular,alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

[POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]

In <o3Ied.34047$QJ3.11064@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com> on Sun, 24 Oct 2004
06:36:05 GMT, "Dr. Rastis Fafoofnik" <DRFafoofnik@rumpledanus.com> wrote:

>Steve.....Don't forget that Verizon has two MAJOR customers it serves on
>Analog......The state of California Highway Call-Boxes and "On-Star"
>It's no wonder why their analog system is still serving all those "off the
>beaten path" areas....and probably will for sometime.

From the Onstar FAQ on Technology & Hardware:

In November 2002, the U.S. Federal Communications Commission (FCC)
ruled that wireless carriers will no longer be required to support
the analog wireless network as of early 2008. Additionally, wireless
carriers in Canada have elected to follow suit and have also begun
the shift from analog to digital technology. As a result, beginning
January 1, 2008, OnStar service will only be available through
dual-mode (analog/digital) equipment.

--
Best regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES:
John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular&gt;
Anonymous
October 24, 2004 12:02:42 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.sprintpcs,alt.cellular.cingular,alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

Dr. Rastis Fafoofnik wrote:

> Steve.....Don't forget that Verizon has two MAJOR customers it serves on
> Analog......The state of California Highway Call-Boxes and "On-Star"
> It's no wonder why their analog system is still serving all those "off the
> beaten path" areas....and probably will for sometime.

But it's not. Pissed me off big time, too - my house was a little too far from
the tower to reliably get a digital signal but analog worked fine... but a
majority of analog calls wouldn't go through anyhow, I assume due to lack of
capacity - I constantly got fast busy signals. The phone could acquire the
analog carrier with no problems, I just couldn't make a call.

I hope no one tries to make an On-Star call from my neighborhood. I only got
through in analog maybe on time out of every three or four.

--
JustThe.net Internet & New Media Services, http://JustThe.net/
Steven J. Sobol, Geek In Charge / 888.480.4NET (4638) / sjsobol@JustThe.net
PGP Key available from your friendly local key server (0xE3AE35ED)
Apple Valley, California Nothing scares me anymore. I have three kids.
October 24, 2004 1:14:54 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.sprintpcs,alt.cellular.cingular,alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

On Sat, 23 Oct 2004 19:33:10 -0700, Steve Sobol <sjsobol@JustThe.net>
wrote:

>John Navas wrote:
>
>> Actually it does, since Cingular doesn't have the correct spectrum.
>
>Yes... you and Joe are both right, I was being stupid. GSM at 850... it is 850,
>isn't it?... GSM at 850 is a relatively new occurrence...

GSM 850 is what is referred to as 800 for other technologies such as
TDMA, CDMA and analog AMPS. For whatever reason when they use the
same frequencies with GSM they call it 850. Go figure.

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October 24, 2004 1:16:47 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.sprintpcs,alt.cellular.cingular,alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

On Sat, 23 Oct 2004 19:37:04 -0700, Steve Sobol <sjsobol@JustThe.net>
wrote:

>Steve Sobol wrote:
>> John Navas wrote:
>>
>>> Actually it does, since Cingular doesn't have the correct spectrum.
>>
>>
>> Yes... you and Joe are both right, I was being stupid. GSM at 850... it
>> is 850, isn't it?... GSM at 850 is a relatively new occurrence...
>
>And actually, I'm not sure that having a license for 850MHz means anything. How
>exactly does this work, legally speaking? Did the FCC specifically start
>handing out 850MHz licenses or does an "800MHz" license actually cover a range
>of frequencies instead of just 800?

It's not 800 or 850 in reality. It is frequencies *around* 800 Mhz
for sending and receiving. It isn't exactly 800 Mhz nor is it exactly
850 either.
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Anonymous
October 24, 2004 5:01:21 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.sprintpcs (More info?)

If the cellular a and the cellular b licenses are already held by
someone else, how would cingular be able to put up an analogue system?


Steve Sobol wrote:
> Frank Harris wrote:
>
>>> Probably Verizon as Cingular has always been GSM in California.
>>
>>
>> I agree with Rod. What's now Cingular in California began in 1997 as
>> Pac Bell Mobile. It's an all-GSM1900 system.
>
>
> Duh, I forgot about that. Of course, that doesn't preclude them from
> putting up analog towers too, for roamers.
>
>> According to Andrew Shepherd's maps, ATTWS is the A-side carrier in
>> San Bernardino County and Verizon is the B-side carrier.
>
>
> That'd be correct.
>
>> Have you received an analog signal (or a digital roam 800CDMA signal)
>> in the places you mention? Can you put your phone in field debug mode
>> to reveal a SID number? Or call 611 and see who answers?
>
>
> Well, in the area I referred to I have basically no digital signal, from
> Air Expressway just east of Village Drive down to old Route 66 (National
> Trails Highway) down into Victorville's Old Town neighborhood, D Street
> just past I-15. I don't have problems elsewhere, and can use my Sprint
> phone at my house out on the edge of town where my Verizon phone was
> basically unusable. Out on the eastern part of Air Expressway, there's
> nothing... no houses, no businesses, nothing except a junkyard, so I
> suspect that Sprint has little incentive to put a tower there. But my
> father-in-law's T-Mobile phone works, and he'd be using Cingular towers
> if he's using his phone here in California. (Of course, he's not using
> the phone in analog.)
>
> I have Fair & Flexible, but I'd need to pay the additional five bucks
> per month for F&F America in order to not pay roaming charges; right now
> if I try to make an analog call I get charged 50c/minute, so I'm not
> real keen on experimentation :) 
>
Anonymous
October 24, 2004 5:01:22 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.sprintpcs (More info?)

Jerome Zelinske wrote:
> If the cellular a and the cellular b licenses are already held by
> someone else, how would cingular be able to put up an analogue system?

Cingular is buying the A-side carrier (ATTWS)

--
JustThe.net Internet & New Media Services, http://JustThe.net/
Steven J. Sobol, Geek In Charge / 888.480.4NET (4638) / sjsobol@JustThe.net
PGP Key available from your friendly local key server (0xE3AE35ED)
Apple Valley, California Nothing scares me anymore. I have three kids.
Anonymous
October 24, 2004 5:23:48 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.sprintpcs (More info?)

"Jerome Zelinske" <jeromez1@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:BINed.5605$KJ6.4909@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> If the cellular a and the cellular b licenses are already held by
> someone else, how would cingular be able to put up an analogue system?
>

<snip>

AT&T has the "A" band spectrum for most of So Cal, which Cingular now has.

Scotty
Anonymous
October 24, 2004 5:25:06 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.sprintpcs,alt.cellular.cingular,alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

"CharlesH" <hoch@exemplary.invalid> wrote in message
news:r8Ied.34049$QJ3.3534@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...
> In article <tv4ln0lj1j5jpiu3hdkondvqk3hcmdldc2@4ax.com>,
> JC Dill <jcdill04@sonic.net> wrote:
> >On Sat, 23 Oct 2004 09:42:09 -0700, Steve Sobol <sjsobol@JustThe.net>
> >wrote:
> >
> >>Duh, I forgot about that. Of course, that doesn't preclude them from

<snip>

> If Cingular in CA is only 1900MHz, then they cannot provide analog, since
> there is no analog on the PCS band. Only digital of one flavor or another.
> When they merge with AT&T Wireless, then the combined company will have
> 850MHz (cellular band) service.

-->AT&T has the "A" band spectrum for most of So Cal, which Cingular now
has.

Scotty
Anonymous
October 24, 2004 7:53:13 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.sprintpcs,alt.cellular.cingular,alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

In article <pKIed.707$_3.14957@typhoon.sonic.net>,
John Navas <spamfilter0@navasgroup.com> wrote:

> [POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]
>
> In <o3Ied.34047$QJ3.11064@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com> on Sun, 24 Oct 2004
> 06:36:05 GMT, "Dr. Rastis Fafoofnik" <DRFafoofnik@rumpledanus.com> wrote:
>
> >Steve.....Don't forget that Verizon has two MAJOR customers it serves on
> >Analog......The state of California Highway Call-Boxes and "On-Star"
> >It's no wonder why their analog system is still serving all those "off the
> >beaten path" areas....and probably will for sometime.
>
> From the Onstar FAQ on Technology & Hardware:
>
> In November 2002, the U.S. Federal Communications Commission (FCC)
> ruled that wireless carriers will no longer be required to support
> the analog wireless network as of early 2008. Additionally, wireless
> carriers in Canada have elected to follow suit and have also begun
> the shift from analog to digital technology. As a result, beginning
> January 1, 2008, OnStar service will only be available through
> dual-mode (analog/digital) equipment.

This affects Sobol's service TODAY how?
Anonymous
October 24, 2004 8:35:17 PM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.sprintpcs,alt.cellular.cingular,alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

Jack Zwick wrote:

> This affects Sobol's service TODAY how?

Doesn't at all today, since my phone is set to Sprint-only. :)  I'm speculating
on whether I could benefit from roaming in the particular section of
Victorville where Sprint doesn't have a tower.

--
JustThe.net Internet & New Media Services, http://JustThe.net/
Steven J. Sobol, Geek In Charge / 888.480.4NET (4638) / sjsobol@JustThe.net
PGP Key available from your friendly local key server (0xE3AE35ED)
Apple Valley, California Nothing scares me anymore. I have three kids.
Anonymous
October 25, 2004 12:18:35 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.sprintpcs,alt.cellular.cingular,alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

[POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]

In <i5lnn0hlsb36djg87i8rat2hto0cr39ase@4ax.com> on Sun, 24 Oct 2004 09:14:54
-0700, Joseph <JoeOfSeattle@yahoo.com> wrote:

>On Sat, 23 Oct 2004 19:33:10 -0700, Steve Sobol <sjsobol@JustThe.net>
>wrote:
>
>>John Navas wrote:
>>
>>> Actually it does, since Cingular doesn't have the correct spectrum.
>>
>>Yes... you and Joe are both right, I was being stupid. GSM at 850... it is 850,
>>isn't it?... GSM at 850 is a relatively new occurrence...
>
>GSM 850 is what is referred to as 800 for other technologies such as
>TDMA, CDMA and analog AMPS. For whatever reason when they use the
>same frequencies with GSM they call it 850. Go figure.

Probably to minimize confusion between TDMA and GSM.

--
Best regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES:
John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular&gt;
Anonymous
October 25, 2004 12:20:37 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.sprintpcs,alt.cellular.cingular,alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

[POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]

In <jzwick3-7C4CF0.10524424102004@news1.west.earthlink.net> on Sun, 24 Oct
2004 15:53:13 GMT, Jack Zwick <jzwick3@mindspring.com> wrote:

>In article <pKIed.707$_3.14957@typhoon.sonic.net>,
> John Navas <spamfilter0@navasgroup.com> wrote:
>
>> In <o3Ied.34047$QJ3.11064@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com> on Sun, 24 Oct 2004
>> 06:36:05 GMT, "Dr. Rastis Fafoofnik" <DRFafoofnik@rumpledanus.com> wrote:
>>
>> >Steve.....Don't forget that Verizon has two MAJOR customers it serves on
>> >Analog......The state of California Highway Call-Boxes and "On-Star"
>> >It's no wonder why their analog system is still serving all those "off the
>> >beaten path" areas....and probably will for sometime.
>>
>> From the Onstar FAQ on Technology & Hardware:
>>
>> In November 2002, the U.S. Federal Communications Commission (FCC)
>> ruled that wireless carriers will no longer be required to support
>> the analog wireless network as of early 2008. Additionally, wireless
>> carriers in Canada have elected to follow suit and have also begun
>> the shift from analog to digital technology. As a result, beginning
>> January 1, 2008, OnStar service will only be available through
>> dual-mode (analog/digital) equipment.
>
>This affects Sobol's service TODAY how?

My point was that those "two MAJOR customers" have no bearing on the
availability of AMPS (analog) service.

--
Best regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES:
John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular&gt;
Anonymous
October 25, 2004 12:30:29 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.sprintpcs,alt.cellular.cingular,alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

In article <p8Ued.765$_3.16634@typhoon.sonic.net>,
John Navas <spamfilter0@navasgroup.com> wrote:

> [POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]
>
> In <jzwick3-7C4CF0.10524424102004@news1.west.earthlink.net> on Sun, 24 Oct
> 2004 15:53:13 GMT, Jack Zwick <jzwick3@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
> >In article <pKIed.707$_3.14957@typhoon.sonic.net>,
> > John Navas <spamfilter0@navasgroup.com> wrote:
> >
> >> In <o3Ied.34047$QJ3.11064@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com> on Sun, 24 Oct 2004
> >> 06:36:05 GMT, "Dr. Rastis Fafoofnik" <DRFafoofnik@rumpledanus.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> >Steve.....Don't forget that Verizon has two MAJOR customers it serves on
> >> >Analog......The state of California Highway Call-Boxes and "On-Star"
> >> >It's no wonder why their analog system is still serving all those "off the
> >> >beaten path" areas....and probably will for sometime.
> >>
> >> From the Onstar FAQ on Technology & Hardware:
> >>
> >> In November 2002, the U.S. Federal Communications Commission (FCC)
> >> ruled that wireless carriers will no longer be required to support
> >> the analog wireless network as of early 2008. Additionally, wireless
> >> carriers in Canada have elected to follow suit and have also begun
> >> the shift from analog to digital technology. As a result, beginning
> >> January 1, 2008, OnStar service will only be available through
> >> dual-mode (analog/digital) equipment.
> >
> >This affects Sobol's service TODAY how?
>
> My point was that those "two MAJOR customers" have no bearing on the
> availability of AMPS (analog) service.

Today or in 2008 ?
Anonymous
October 25, 2004 12:40:53 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.sprintpcs,alt.cellular.cingular,alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

[POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]

In <jzwick3-0FAFD8.15300024102004@news1.west.earthlink.net> on Sun, 24 Oct
2004 20:30:29 GMT, Jack Zwick <jzwick3@mindspring.com> wrote:

>In article <p8Ued.765$_3.16634@typhoon.sonic.net>,
> John Navas <spamfilter0@navasgroup.com> wrote:
>
>> In <jzwick3-7C4CF0.10524424102004@news1.west.earthlink.net> on Sun, 24 Oct
>> 2004 15:53:13 GMT, Jack Zwick <jzwick3@mindspring.com> wrote:
>>
>> >In article <pKIed.707$_3.14957@typhoon.sonic.net>,
>> > John Navas <spamfilter0@navasgroup.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >> In <o3Ied.34047$QJ3.11064@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com> on Sun, 24 Oct 2004
>> >> 06:36:05 GMT, "Dr. Rastis Fafoofnik" <DRFafoofnik@rumpledanus.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >Steve.....Don't forget that Verizon has two MAJOR customers it serves on
>> >> >Analog......The state of California Highway Call-Boxes and "On-Star"
>> >> >It's no wonder why their analog system is still serving all those "off the
>> >> >beaten path" areas....and probably will for sometime.
>> >>
>> >> From the Onstar FAQ on Technology & Hardware:
>> >>
>> >> In November 2002, the U.S. Federal Communications Commission (FCC)
>> >> ruled that wireless carriers will no longer be required to support
>> >> the analog wireless network as of early 2008. Additionally, wireless
>> >> carriers in Canada have elected to follow suit and have also begun
>> >> the shift from analog to digital technology. As a result, beginning
>> >> January 1, 2008, OnStar service will only be available through
>> >> dual-mode (analog/digital) equipment.
>> >
>> >This affects Sobol's service TODAY how?
>>
>> My point was that those "two MAJOR customers" have no bearing on the
>> availability of AMPS (analog) service.
>
>Today or in 2008 ?

At any time.

--
Best regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES:
John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular&gt;
Anonymous
October 25, 2004 12:47:24 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.sprintpcs,alt.cellular.cingular,alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

In article <prUed.769$_3.16400@typhoon.sonic.net>,
John Navas <spamfilter0@navasgroup.com> wrote:

> [POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]
>
> In <jzwick3-0FAFD8.15300024102004@news1.west.earthlink.net> on Sun, 24 Oct
> 2004 20:30:29 GMT, Jack Zwick <jzwick3@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
> >In article <p8Ued.765$_3.16634@typhoon.sonic.net>,
> > John Navas <spamfilter0@navasgroup.com> wrote:
> >
> >> In <jzwick3-7C4CF0.10524424102004@news1.west.earthlink.net> on Sun, 24 Oct
> >> 2004 15:53:13 GMT, Jack Zwick <jzwick3@mindspring.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> >In article <pKIed.707$_3.14957@typhoon.sonic.net>,
> >> > John Navas <spamfilter0@navasgroup.com> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> In <o3Ied.34047$QJ3.11064@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com> on Sun, 24 Oct
> >> >> 2004
> >> >> 06:36:05 GMT, "Dr. Rastis Fafoofnik" <DRFafoofnik@rumpledanus.com>
> >> >> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> >Steve.....Don't forget that Verizon has two MAJOR customers it serves
> >> >> >on
> >> >> >Analog......The state of California Highway Call-Boxes and "On-Star"
> >> >> >It's no wonder why their analog system is still serving all those "off
> >> >> >the
> >> >> >beaten path" areas....and probably will for sometime.
> >> >>
> >> >> From the Onstar FAQ on Technology & Hardware:
> >> >>
> >> >> In November 2002, the U.S. Federal Communications Commission (FCC)
> >> >> ruled that wireless carriers will no longer be required to support
> >> >> the analog wireless network as of early 2008. Additionally, wireless
> >> >> carriers in Canada have elected to follow suit and have also begun
> >> >> the shift from analog to digital technology. As a result, beginning
> >> >> January 1, 2008, OnStar service will only be available through
> >> >> dual-mode (analog/digital) equipment.
> >> >
> >> >This affects Sobol's service TODAY how?
> >>
> >> My point was that those "two MAJOR customers" have no bearing on the
> >> availability of AMPS (analog) service.
> >
> >Today or in 2008 ?
>
> At any time.

So you didnt answer the question then. How does it affect it now?
Anonymous
October 25, 2004 12:54:29 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.sprintpcs,alt.cellular.cingular,alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

[POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]

In <jzwick3-38635F.15473924102004@news1.west.earthlink.net> on Sun, 24 Oct
2004 20:47:24 GMT, Jack Zwick <jzwick3@mindspring.com> wrote:

>In article <prUed.769$_3.16400@typhoon.sonic.net>,
> John Navas <spamfilter0@navasgroup.com> wrote:

>> At any time.
>
>So you didnt answer the question then. ...

Actually I did.

--
Best regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES:
John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular&gt;
Anonymous
October 25, 2004 1:45:48 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.cingular (More info?)

>And actually, I'm not sure that having a license for 850MHz means anything.
>How
>exactly does this work, legally speaking? Did the FCC specifically start
>handing out 850MHz licenses or does an "800MHz" license actually cover a
>range
>of frequencies instead of just 800?

Well, actually there are 2 800MHz carriers. They are the original cellular
carriers, a wireline company and a non-wireline company.

That's it!!!!

Do NOT confuse the issue with 850. For some reason someone along the way
started calling the 800MHz cellular frequencies 850. A BIG mistake in my
estimation - but they didn't come ask me. This variation is what is causing the
confusion.

800 is the legal name of the frequency spectrum and 850 is the nick name. Using
an old saying - A Rose is a Rose by any other name. 800 is a 850 by another
name.

--
John S.
e-mail responses to - john at kiana dot net
Anonymous
October 25, 2004 1:47:15 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.cingular (More info?)

>It's not 800 or 850 in reality. It is frequencies *around* 800 Mhz
>for sending and receiving. It isn't exactly 800 Mhz nor is it exactly
>850 either.

Actually it is 824 to 896.

--
John S.
e-mail responses to - john at kiana dot net
Anonymous
October 25, 2004 1:47:55 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.cingular (More info?)

> For whatever reason when they use the
>>same frequencies with GSM they call it 850. Go figure.
>
>Probably to minimize confusion between TDMA and GSM.

Probably some marketeers bad dream.

--
John S.
e-mail responses to - john at kiana dot net
Anonymous
October 25, 2004 1:49:30 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.cingular (More info?)

>Today or in 2008 ?

Take your pick.....

--
John S.
e-mail responses to - john at kiana dot net
Anonymous
October 25, 2004 2:17:16 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.sprintpcs,alt.cellular.cingular,alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

[POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]

In <S2Oed.2412$8W6.1135@trnddc05> on Sun, 24 Oct 2004 13:25:06 GMT, "Scott
Nelson - Wash DC" <spamcop@bnmnetworks.net> wrote:

>"CharlesH" <hoch@exemplary.invalid> wrote in message
>news:r8Ied.34049$QJ3.3534@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...

>> If Cingular in CA is only 1900MHz, then they cannot provide analog, since
>> there is no analog on the PCS band. Only digital of one flavor or another.
>> When they merge with AT&T Wireless, then the combined company will have
>> 850MHz (cellular band) service.
>
>-->AT&T has the "A" band spectrum for most of So Cal, which Cingular now
>has.

Cingular should have soon, but not yet.

--
Best regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES:
John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular&gt;
Anonymous
October 25, 2004 2:18:43 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.cingular (More info?)

d[POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]

In <20041024174715.11769.00002884@mb-m29.aol.com> on 24 Oct 2004 21:47:15 GMT,
sexyexotiche@aol.comspamfree (John S.) wrote:

>>It's not 800 or 850 in reality. It is frequencies *around* 800 Mhz
>>for sending and receiving. It isn't exactly 800 Mhz nor is it exactly
>>850 either.
>
>Actually it is 824 to 896.

Or more precisely: 824-849 MHz paired with 869-894 MHz.

--
Best regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES:
John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular&gt;
Anonymous
October 25, 2004 2:20:19 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.cingular (More info?)

[POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]

In <20041024174548.11769.00002883@mb-m29.aol.com> on 24 Oct 2004 21:45:48 GMT,
sexyexotiche@aol.comspamfree (John S.) wrote:

>Do NOT confuse the issue with 850. For some reason someone along the way
>started calling the 800MHz cellular frequencies 850. A BIG mistake in my
>estimation - but they didn't come ask me. This variation is what is causing the
>confusion.
>
>800 is the legal name of the frequency spectrum and 850 is the nick name. Using
>an old saying - A Rose is a Rose by any other name. 800 is a 850 by another
>name.

Actually 800 is the "legal" name for TDMA, and 850 is the "legal" name for
GSM, different probably to minimize confusing GSM service with TDMA service.

--
Best regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES:
John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular&gt;
Anonymous
October 25, 2004 2:20:54 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.cingular (More info?)

[POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]

In <20041024174755.11769.00002885@mb-m29.aol.com> on 24 Oct 2004 21:47:55 GMT,
sexyexotiche@aol.comspamfree (John S.) wrote:

>> For whatever reason when they use the
>>>same frequencies with GSM they call it 850. Go figure.
>>
>>Probably to minimize confusion between TDMA and GSM.
>
>Probably some marketeers bad dream.

I think it was probably done by technical people.

--
Best regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES:
John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular&gt;
Anonymous
October 25, 2004 2:22:04 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.sprintpcs,alt.cellular.cingular,alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

There are at least two carriers who have set up cell sites with no other use
than to serve roamers. Western Wireless provides CDMA digital to all their
own new customers. They also maintain TDMA for old customers and TDMA
roamers. Recently they added GSM service at both 1900 MHz and 850 MHz.
Also, they are now adding CDMA at 1900 MHz for Sprint PCS roaming customers
with single-band phones.

Commnet Wireless does not have any of their own customers. They have set up
TDMA, GSM and analog sites strictly to serve roamers, and are still
expanding.

"JC Dill" <jcdill04@sonic.net> wrote in message
news:tv4ln0lj1j5jpiu3hdkondvqk3hcmdldc2@4ax.com...
>
> I don't think there's much of a business case for putting up towers
> just to serve roaming customers. Roaming business only makes sense
> when the towers first serve your own customers and then *also* serve
> roaming customers for an additional fee.

Zeno,
On-Star has contracts with many carriers across the country, and that
includes both cellular carriers in Florida, Alltel, AT&T, Cingular, and
others.

On-Star customers have the advantage of an external vehicle antenna, and
those who still have analog (all pre-2004), have higher-power units. So
they have a MUCH better chance of making contact in analog.

>So "On-Star" works in digital mode in Florida, since Verizon does not
>have any anlog in Florida, its all 1900 Mhz PCS there??? And if one has
>a car that only has analog On-Star, does it not work in Florida at
>all???
October 25, 2004 2:59:01 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.sprintpcs,alt.cellular.cingular,alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

In article <o3Ied.34047$QJ3.11064@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com>, Dr.
Rastis Fafoofnik <DRFafoofnik@rumpledanus.com> wrote:

> Steve.....Don't forget that Verizon has two MAJOR customers it serves on
> Analog......The state of California Highway Call-Boxes and "On-Star"
> It's no wonder why their analog system is still serving all those "off the
> beaten path" areas....and probably will for sometime.


So "On-Star" works in digital mode in Florida, since Verizon does not
have any anlog in Florida, its all 1900 Mhz PCS there??? And if one has
a car that only has analog On-Star, does it not work in Florida at
all??? Curious...
Anonymous
October 25, 2004 2:59:02 AM

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.sprintpcs,alt.cellular.cingular,alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

zeno wrote:

> In article <o3Ied.34047$QJ3.11064@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com>, Dr.
> Rastis Fafoofnik <DRFafoofnik@rumpledanus.com> wrote:
>
>
>>Steve.....Don't forget that Verizon has two MAJOR customers it serves on
>>Analog......The state of California Highway Call-Boxes and "On-Star"
>>It's no wonder why their analog system is still serving all those "off the
>>beaten path" areas....and probably will for sometime.
>
>
>
> So "On-Star" works in digital mode in Florida, since Verizon does not
> have any anlog in Florida, its all 1900 Mhz PCS there??? And if one has
> a car that only has analog On-Star, does it not work in Florida at
> all??? Curious...

OnStar has agreements with lots of analog carriers, so in Florida they
probably work on some 800MHz carrier other than Verizon, such as ATTWS,
Alltel, or Cingular.

--
Frank Harris in San Francisco with an A680
!