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AGP Graphics Card with Dual DVI

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July 9, 2006 2:30:49 PM

Hi,

I have been looking for an AGP graphics card with dual DVI connectors and full hardware compatibility with Windows Vista.

I'm not a big gamer but would still like reasonable performance for the few games I might play.

The graphics card should also run as silently as possible as I will be replacing a passively cooled Radeon 9600.

Can anyone recommend one as I’m having difficulty finding an AGP card with dual DVI?

Thanks,

Ben
July 9, 2006 4:01:36 PM

How about this card? Pretty damn fast, will run Aero with EASE, and will run pretty much every game out there will high settings.

Gainward

~Ibrahim~
July 9, 2006 4:49:25 PM

That the kind of thing I'm after but I don't want to spend more than £150, preferably about £110.

It's not got to be the best gamers card but accepable performance in games would be required.

I mainly use my PC as a media centre so DVD and video play back is most important.

Thanks.
Related resources
July 9, 2006 4:55:00 PM

Ah, OK. Let me look around, thanks for the info! Full hardware compatability isn't exactly fully possible, as full compatability will be a DX10 card. All cards now are DX9....

~Ibrahim~
July 9, 2006 5:05:47 PM

Here, look through these cards:

NewEgg: +AGP +Dual DVI

The 6800XT will beat the X1600, so go with it. The XFX version gets very good overclocks. You can unlock some pipes and I've seen it run very stable at 450/1250. Check out this thread:

[H] Forum

You know, you could just get a regular card, and pop a VGA-to-DVI adapter on...

~Ibrahim~
a b U Graphics card
July 9, 2006 8:22:10 PM

If the primary concern is Vista and good 2D, then I'd get the X1600P.

The game performance is very close, favouring the XT (Only that kind with fast memory), but the 2D performance and quality favours the X1600, especially if using larger panels, the GF6XT doesn't have dual-link DVI.

Also I'd go with a 512MB card if it's only $10-20 more since Vista's minimum for the vector based part of Aero (full implementation) is 256MB accprding to M$. And while it may be overkill, better safe than sorry, especially since you don't have the luxury of HyperMemory or TurboCache with these AGP cards.
July 9, 2006 9:04:08 PM

The first card on that list was a Quadro FX3000; if you read the reviews, a few idiots go "IMAGINE DOOM3 OR HALF-LIFE2 ON THIS CARD". :lol: 
a b U Graphics card
July 9, 2006 9:25:35 PM

You can easily find them on NewEgg
July 9, 2006 9:40:22 PM

haha, I forgot to exclude those cards. haha, Doom 3. Are they even supported on games? I know basically same chipset, but..

~Ibrahim~
a b U Graphics card
July 9, 2006 9:52:51 PM

Quote:
It's mostly a 2D workstation card.


Mostly? Pretty much exclusively a workstation card, and 2D at that.

The 280 is out of it's league for just about everything and will be way overpricced compared to better solutions.

And as for his occasional gaming, that Quadro won't play any of the modern games.
July 9, 2006 10:00:07 PM

Quote:

And as for his occasional gaming, that Quadro won't play any of the modern games.


Thanks!

~Ibrahim~
a b U Graphics card
July 9, 2006 10:20:37 PM

Actually understand the better Quadros will play, but their driver support is different, they are also underclocked compared to their gaming brothers (so they can last longer @ 12-16hr workdays).

Overall, very few will play modern games, but some will, hwoever you'll find and $2000 Quadro/FireGL getting schooled by a cheap X1600/GF7600 in every game, and even the X1300/G7300 will likely beat them in almost ever game.

Sometimes there are exceptions, but they are very rare. Because of how the FireGL8800 handled 3Dmk01 it had a 4X performance boost over even the best graphics cards at the time R9700, and it was based on the Radeon 8500!

However really those are rare exceptions, and in the way that even the cheapest workstation cards often outperform the most expensive gaming cards in many pro apps (mostly due to driver optimizations), the same inverse is true for games.
July 9, 2006 10:26:12 PM

Ahhh.. That is what I thought. I hear that those developer cards are expensive, also, for their great support...It is a big premium, but I guess they are the only choice for pro apps.

~Ibrahim~
a b U Graphics card
July 9, 2006 10:31:06 PM

Yeah it's a question of support, certifications, and a development team that has a smaller market to get paid from.

They're essentially the same chip, and often the same board.

But the drivers make the difference, and the certification means the world to proffesional shops that need that certification to win and maintain contracts.

Most of the time, the gaming card would do better (for the money), but really when your job relies on it, you don't cut corners, that'd be like putting generic store brand tires on an F1.
July 9, 2006 10:49:21 PM

Ah, I see...Thanks, you cleared it up for me! I know this may sound stupid, but do those CAD designers who make movies, say Shrek 2, actually use these cards? Quadros and FireGLs? Or do they have their own secret company? Matrox?

~Ibrahim~
a b U Graphics card
July 9, 2006 11:01:12 PM

Quote:
Ah, I see...Thanks, you cleared it up for me! I know this may sound stupid, but do those CAD designers who make movies, say Shrek 2, actually use these cards?


HHmmm, for some reason I thought you'd have an inside track on that knowledge. :mrgreen:

And the answer is yes and no.

Quote:
Quadros and FireGLs? Or do they have their own secret company? Matrox?


Quadros and FireGLs depending on the studio.

What the Quadros and GLs are used for is the preview stuff on systems like Avid Boxes or SGI workstations, but it's mainly for preview and for minor tweaks.
All the final product is done on CPUs, and often it's gigantic render farms of hundreds/thousands of CPUs.

Here's some insight on WETA's setup, as they are among the big boyz;
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/3672887.stm

The graphics cards just give you a glimpse of what the CPUs do because all the rendered movie, big or small is done on the CPU.
July 9, 2006 11:10:13 PM

haha, lol. I'm not THAT young... Oh, shite! A CPU farm? Scary, yet interesting.Thanks for the link!

~Ibrahim~
a b U Graphics card
July 9, 2006 11:11:47 PM

BTW, I was refering to your avitar. :lol: 
July 9, 2006 11:14:19 PM

Oh, I hadn't noticed. I'm not kidding, I totally forgot about that. And it is ironic that the link you have was about LOTR, when my avatar is supposedly a cross-breed between an ogre and a wizard. Or a big, green thing and an old man.

~Ibrahim`
July 9, 2006 11:47:14 PM

The BIG boys really use the quadros and Open GL. No lame directX 9 bs. ATI only last month fixed their windows drivers for OpenGL 2.0. No drivers for Open GL in Linux. Lawrence Livermore is building a computer for video display of the output of Blue Gene L. It is a Voltiare with 16,000 dual core Opterons,150 terbystes of memory interface and a 256 node "Gauss" unit with about 256 Quadro 4500's each served by an opteron 252 with 12 gb memory. How would you like to play WoW on that. http://home.businesswire.com/portal/site/google/index.j...
http://www.llnl.gov/pao/news/news_releases/2005/NR-05-1...
July 10, 2006 4:38:58 PM

A computer with 16,000 Dual-Core Opterons can only make a colorful blob?



What is that? I read the caption, something like light fluid into heavy fluid, but that just looks like stoned lasagna...

I'd like to see some 1M Pi numbers and some CPU-Z before I believe that. lol, jk. You know, it isn't global warming that is causing icebergs to melt. It is supercomputers like that.

~Ibrahim~
a b U Graphics card
July 10, 2006 6:50:59 PM

Quote:

What is that? I read the caption, something like light fluid into heavy fluid, but that just looks like stoned lasagna...


Knowing Lawrence Livermore, it's likely plasma phsyics for nuclear research or something similar. Might even be something like Deuterium/HeavyWater cooling (although that's primarily a Canadian thing, US prefers breeder reacors to make spent fuel that can be used for weapons).

Definitely doesn't apply to your question at all.

It's like someone saying tha because Matrox has the best 2D it's the best card for gaming.

BlueGene and LLL don't have anything to do with animation or effects. Heck the colour range of that example is probably 8-12 bit. MMmmm HDR thermograph nifty! :roll:
July 10, 2006 6:53:26 PM

Yes, I know, the NVS 280 is a workstation card for 2D. I thought he wasn't asking for a gaming card. He was doing video work.
a b U Graphics card
July 10, 2006 7:01:10 PM

Quote:
Yes, I know, the NVS 280 is a workstation card for 2D. I thought he wasn't asking for a gaming card. He was doing video work.


That was his primary question, but he did also mention that he does light gaming;

...I'm not a big gamer but would still like reasonable performance for the few games I might play...

And really for the price he's likely to get the Q280NVS for, he's got much better options IMO, heck I don't doubt that his current R9600 would outperform in most situations.
July 10, 2006 7:05:27 PM

I'm building a 2D multi monitor system for stock and currency trading, no gaming.

I have kinda narrowed the video cards down to either a PNY Quadro NVS 285 PCIE, an ATI Fire MV2200 PCIE. The other choices would be some kind of Matrox card. They seem to be around $150-160 or so. The Matrox cards more.

Can you think of some other cheaper cards that are good for muliti monitors and easy to set up and use?

I'm probably going to use an AMD 64X2 3800 on an ASUS A8N5X board which has an Nvidia chip set.

And what kind of RAM do you think would be a good choice for this mobo? Does latency numbers matter that much for best performance?

Thanks.
a b U Graphics card
July 10, 2006 7:37:52 PM

Quote:
I'm building a 2D multi monitor system for stock and currency trading, no gaming.

...

Can you think of some other cheaper cards that are good for muliti monitors and easy to set up and use?

I'm probably going to use an AMD 64X2 3800 on an ASUS A8N5X board which has an Nvidia chip set.


What monitors?

I'd say you'd be fine with an X1300 or GF7300 (X1300 has better LCD support). 2D is very basic. But regardless of what you choose, if you're doing multi-monitor get UltraMon, it's worth the money and is better than ATi and nV's native support IMO (although haven't played with the FireMV drivers or seen a review if they've improved stuff).

But really I'd say in 99% of the cases the X1300 would be more than good enough, heck an X300/GF6300 would likely be more than enough.
Most 2D apps are very CPU/RAM dependant more than card dependant other than output quality (RAMDACs, Filtering, TMDS). If you're planning on large LCDs, then something like a dual dual-link DVI card would be best. There are a very small number of X1600s that fit the bill, but primarily the X1800/1900 and GF7900 series.

Quote:
And what kind of RAM do you think would be a good choice for this mobo? Does latency numbers matter that much for best performance?


Latency matters alot for thos X2 chips, IMO get 2 1GB sticks of Corsair PC4400Pro LowLatency memory. They function low latency at 225mhz, thus allowing you to synchronously overclock the CPU without stressing the memory (which will be faster than using dividers). This will give you fast and low latency ram.

Probably the biggest impacts to you will be CPU power and RAM size/speed/latency, size especially if you have multiple windows and multiple trackers.

If you can detail a little more about the apps and your monitors (type and number) we might be able to pick a best fit.
July 10, 2006 10:54:54 PM

Quote:
I'm building a 2D multi monitor system for stock and currency trading, no gaming.

I have kinda narrowed the video cards down to either a PNY Quadro NVS 285 PCIE, an ATI Fire MV2200 PCIE. The other choices would be some kind of Matrox card. They seem to be around $150-160 or so. The Matrox cards more.

Can you think of some other cheaper cards that are good for muliti monitors and easy to set up and use?

I'm probably going to use an AMD 64X2 3800 on an ASUS A8N5X board which has an Nvidia chip set.

And what kind of RAM do you think would be a good choice for this mobo? Does latency numbers matter that much for best performance?

Thanks.


The advantage to the Quadro and the Fire GL is the toll Free tech support. If a card goes bad you get a replacement in advance and the drivers compromise speed alittle in favor of stablity. I have a Fire GL X3 and in May ATI finally issued drivers (8.22) that fixed a number of problems that have been outstanding for the last year and one half. For that reason I can't recommend ATI. Oh yes the bette rcards support 9 million pixels. that would be 2 Dell 2407's at full res.

The cute picture that is from LLNL is a boundry ;layer problem between two fluids that is very hard to understand with numbers on paper but with a 4 meter by 6 meter display it is easier to understand since the computer will run the effects in time lapse. That problem may win a Nobel prise for the chemists working on it. It will go a long way to improving efficiency in the chemical industry.
July 11, 2006 4:08:14 PM

Agreed.

I know little of Nuclear Reactors, but I think I get what you are trying to say...Yes, we Americans like our Nukes, lol!

~IBrahim~
a b U Graphics card
July 11, 2006 4:34:10 PM

Quote:
Agreed.

I know little of Nuclear Reactors, but I think I get what you are trying to say...Yes, we Americans like our Nukes, lol!


LOL! You need the Canadian 'CANDU' attitude!

We'll take all your weapons grade Plutonium MOX and turn it into 'useless' waste, which we will then scratch our heads over where to put it, so like Beer Kegs and Stanley Cups, we'll just toss them into the deep end of the Pool. :mrgreen:
July 11, 2006 5:46:08 PM

haha, the deep end of the pool! We are a little (OK, more than a little) arrogant about our nukes, which I think is totally misguided and is provocative; we want to bury our "waste" in some desert in Nevada and hope we put enough signs up about it!

~Ibrahim~
July 11, 2006 7:57:25 PM

Thanks for the reply.

The monitors are: 2 AG Neovo CW-19 Black 19" LCD's made by AGM.

You suggested this RAM: Corsair PC4400Pro

What about these also: Corsair TWX 2048-3200 CPT
2048-3200
2048-3200 C2


To be used with ASUS A8N5X mobo with AMD 64X2-3800.
a b U Graphics card
July 11, 2006 8:56:00 PM

Quote:
Thanks for the reply.

The monitors are: 2 AG Neovo CW-19 Black 19" LCD's made by AGM.


In that case you don't 'NEED' dual-link DVI, but it'd be nice for the future if you decide to move to bigger panels, but not necessary now as you're not even on the edge of bandwidth.

Quote:
You suggested this RAM: Corsair PC4400Pro


Sorry F'ed up my numbers (been doing too much DDR2 shopping recently).

That should be XMS PC3500LL / XMSPRO

Quote:
What about these also: Corsair TWX 2048-3200 CPT
2048-3200
2048-3200 C2


The plain PC3200 and PC3200C2 (which is the memory I still have a stick of) will both run @ CL2.5 in AMD64 setups. The CPT I don't know. The C2PT is also stuck at 2.5 if thatt's the model.

For Cas 2.0 you need the LL, EL, LLP, XL sticks. So getting XMS PC3200LL would be good too. But usually the PC3500LL is only $10 difference an IMO worth it (too bad mozartusm doesn't post here much anymore, he used to do alot of memory tweaking/OCing).

Quote:
To be used with ASUS A8N5X mobo with AMD 64X2-3800.


Yep and that's the only block, the AMD64s memory contoller doesn't like our old CL2 sticks.
August 17, 2006 7:44:56 PM

(sorry, regurgitating this thread through a search on FX3000). Isn't the NVS 280 a PCI card? I thought he was looking for an AGP card. I just picked up a FX3000 (last good CAD/Rendering AGP card??) and was looking for information beyond the hype.

I think, after looking around, someone hit it on the head. It's about the drivers, where the 3000 is optimized for CAD and 3D rendering performance and not so much games. What I did notice is that OC'ing the card is as easy as it was in my 6800GT.

For his question: I think you can find a great Nvidia FX 3000 in the 250-300.00 (USD) range and be much better off than using a PCI card given your requirements and have that awesome TRUE dual DVI.
a b U Graphics card
August 17, 2006 9:18:46 PM

Quote:
(sorry, regurgitating this thread through a search on FX3000). Isn't the NVS 280 a PCI card? I thought he was looking for an AGP card. I just picked up a FX3000 (last good CAD/Rendering AGP card??) and was looking for information beyond the hype.


Benny was looking for AGP, Gary was looking at PCIe (BTW the NVS280 comes in AGP and PCIe and PCI flavours).

Quote:
For his question: I think you can find a great Nvidia FX 3000 in the 250-300.00 (USD) range and be much better off than using a PCI card given your requirements and have that awesome TRUE dual DVI.


Well except Gary can use PCIe, so the FX3000 is a slightly overpricced option for his needs, and since he is build and can buy PCIe, there's likely better options out ther for him than the FX3000, which is a solid AGP-PRO card.

In any case I think likely the OP has already built his rig (being as it was 1+ month ago), but if not he could definitely look into the FX3000 as well depending on his needs and budget.
!