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Router problems with Windows 98

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July 9, 2006 4:41:43 PM

My grandparents have decided to get the internet. I've set them up with a broadband account and they've been given an old PC.

Trouble is that the PC is Windows 98 and it's decided to stop working with their Netgear DG814 router.

I've tested the router with their internet connection on my Macintosh and it's worked fine, first time. However with their Win98 system we can't get it to connect.

The router has a light saying that the PC is connected to it, however under the 'attached devices' menu in the router's config it only lists my PowerBook as being connected, not the PC.

I've tried the usual googling and KB search, and nothing came up.

I've already changed the NIC, and set the TCP/IP settings to 'obtain IP automatically' but to no avail.

Anyone got any thoughts?
July 9, 2006 5:10:20 PM

Download a copy of 2K or XP?
July 9, 2006 5:12:03 PM

Sure you're using the right cable? Check if you use a crossover instead of a straight or similar
Related resources
July 9, 2006 5:12:29 PM

Woa, pardner: Windows 98 on the Internet is a very bad idea - doubleplus ungood. This is not to say that there might be some other flavor of Windows which would be a "good idea" - no - but the Registry of a Windows 98 installation might not even survive for one day. Use a Linux distribution. If you can't install one, such as SUSE or Fedora, then use a Knoppix live CD.
July 9, 2006 5:18:40 PM

I'm using a straight CAT5 cable. It's not a crossover.

Basically I would like to know if there's anything I've missed - I'm not asking anyone if using Windows 98 and the internet is a good idea. I definitely know that it isn't.

However, I'd hope there were some more constructive answers to this question than 'download a copy of W2K or XP'.

And to oldsaw:

I can't be bothered to learn Linux and my grandparents certainly can't. And my main computer is a Macintosh. I'm supposed to be the one bashing Windows.
July 9, 2006 5:33:36 PM

Quote:

Basically I would like to know if there's anything I've missed - I'm not asking anyone if using Windows 98 and the internet is a good idea. I definitely know that it isn't.


Looks like you got all the common stuff, do you know if the computer ever worked with broadband before? Have you checked to see if you have the latest drivers for either of the NICs that you used? Is there anything else that the computer isn't doing that it should be? Anything it is doing that it shouldn't be?

Quote:
However, I'd hope there were some more constructive answers to this question than 'download a copy of W2K or XP'.


You asked for advice I gave you advice, it doesn't look like a hardware problem given what you've already done so I think that there is a good chance that 98 is the problem. Hence getting 2K or XP would fix the problem.

Quote:
I can't be bothered to learn Linux and my grandparents certainly can't. And my main computer is a Macintosh. I'm supposed to be the one bashing Windows.


Now you've done it, the Linux fanboys will be out in force to inform you of exactly how incredibly easy it is to run Linux now.:) 

Good Luck.
July 9, 2006 5:36:24 PM

It has worked with broadband before - in fact it has worked with broadband with this very same router, same cable, same card.

One day W98 just decided to forget about the internet and it all stopped working.

I've got copies of 2K/XP that I take with me everywhere for diagnosis - is there anything on those two discs that might help me out?
July 9, 2006 5:40:04 PM

Just remembered sonething, I've also got a Win 98 box that won't get on the net. I went through 3 NIC's with no joy. This is the same computer, with almost the same hardware (added a Voodoo 3) that was on the net just hours before I put 98 on it. There's a good chance we're having the same problem.
July 9, 2006 5:48:30 PM

Quote:
It has worked with broadband before - in fact it has worked with broadband with this very same router, same cable, same card.

One day W98 just decided to forget about the internet and it all stopped working.


Ah yes the joys of 9x. Do you happen to know if anything was changed around the time it quit?

Quote:
I've got copies of 2K/XP that I take with me everywhere for diagnosis - is there anything on those two discs that might help me out?


Other than instaling them to see if THEY work I can't think of anything.

But if you have a copy of 98 maybe you should try re-installing, the best part about 98 is that you dont lose any files by installing a new copy over and old copy but it fixes a lot of problems. In fact if I troubleshoot 98 boxes (which I haven't done for a few years) one of the first things I look at doing is re-installing, it usually fixes all the problems and makes it run a lot faster as well. You might want to try that.

Good luck.
July 9, 2006 5:51:23 PM

Nope, nothing changed. Just a wonderful slice of MS random coming along to shut the internet off.

I'm doing a temporary install of XP on another hard disk for diagnostics at the moment. After that, I'll probably end up reinstalling 98.

I too haven't worked on 98 for....well probably about 5 years. Are you sure it doesn't damage any files in a reinstall (I remember that too, but I want to make absolutely sure).
July 9, 2006 6:11:12 PM

Unless you count re-writing the system files as damage. The only real danger is that the re-install will fail partway through and refuse to finish, but out of about 15 or 20 re-installs I've done of various OS's the only time that has happened was with XP (had to spend around 5 hours with an XP live CD to get my files off the drive before I wiped it)

Good Luck.
July 9, 2006 6:18:21 PM

statically route it. Some routers have issues with win95, 98, Me. go find a working pc and copy down the ip address, subnetmask, default gateway and dns server numbers. then go to the 98 pc and type in all that info only change hte last digit of hte ip address. This process skips the DHCP server all together and makes your life so much easier.

Example:

PC1
IP: 192.168.1.101
SubnetMask: 255.255.255.0
Default Dateway:192.168.1.1
DNS:192.168.1.1

PC2
IP:192.168.1.102
Subnet Mask: 255.255.255.0
Default Dateway:192.168.1.1
DNS:192.168.1.1

Most routers have a 192.168.x.xxx IP. The Professional routers might use a 172.16.x.x IP. See what your router uses and just copy the first 3 groups of numbers of hte IP. Those numbers specify hte subnet (don't change that). you just wnat to change the last group of numbers. justt copy Subnet Mask and Default Gateway unless you know what you're doing. DNS too.

If you get a message that says IP address conflict change the last number again. That means the number u picked is being used by another pc.

Hope this helps
July 9, 2006 6:35:50 PM

Okay, I've set the following (having disabled DHCP on the router):

IP: 192.168.0.9

Gateway: 192.168.0.1

Subnet Mask: 255.255.255.0

I've disabled WINS resolution, and I'm not sure what to put in the DNS configuration tab so I've left it alone.

The router isn't showing any attached devices now.

Cheers for all the help, by the way.

I've reinstalled Windows 98, but to no avail.
July 9, 2006 6:41:39 PM

If you enable the DHCP on the router and do a "winipcfg" on the win98 machine and select the ethernet adapter that your using is it getting an IP address at all if its set to obtain an IP address automatically? Sounds like you may be having a problem with the tcp/ip being bound to the network card that your using if the router is showing a connection from a port light but the computer is not recognizing the connection. Also, is the computer getting online plugged directly into the modem or is it not recognizing a connection from that either with all the stuff that you've tried doing?
July 9, 2006 6:50:47 PM

The first time I tried winipcfg it gave me some horrible error message, however one reinstall later it seems to be working.

I've re-enabled 'automatic IP configuration' and set the router to act as DHCP again. The results (according to winipcfg) are:

Host Name - G (the name I assigned to this computer)

DNS Servers - blank

Node Type - Broadcast

NetBIOS Scope ID - Blank

IP Routing Enabled, WINS Proxy Enabled, NetBIOS Resolution Uses DNS - All blank


and on to the next section:

IP Address - 0.0.0.0

Subnet Mask - 0.0.0.0

No default gateway, primary or secondary WINS server.

DHCP server registers as 255.255.255.255.

My router's IP is 192.168.0.1

Any more ideas?

@ youdidwhat - the NIC has a 100mbps link confirmation light, as does the router. Windows 98, however, sees the card, but can't collect an IP.
July 9, 2006 6:55:13 PM

This is my last idea, have you tried plugging the computer directly into the modem instead of goign through the router?

Like I said I'm out of ideas, good luck.
July 9, 2006 6:57:00 PM

It's a combined modem/router, unfortunately. I'm communicating to you using the modem/router in question on my PowerBook.
July 9, 2006 7:12:33 PM

The dns setting on the w98 box will be 192.168.0.1 (the routers LAN IP address). You could also use an external DNS server address if you knew one.

Set the IP info manually, then try to ping an external IP address from the win98 box.
July 9, 2006 7:14:18 PM

So I just need to put the router's IP into the DNS server box?

There are a few other options in the DNS dialog - something about host name etc...

Any ideas?

I really appreciate this everyone, as you can probably guess networks are not my strong point.
July 9, 2006 7:15:26 PM

Yes.

IP: 192.168.0.10 (10 is an example)
subnet: 255.255.255.0
GW 192.168.0.1
DNS 192.168.0.1
July 9, 2006 7:17:22 PM

default GateWay.

You can leave all the other stuff blank, like host name, etc
July 9, 2006 7:18:35 PM

I tried leaving the host name blank, and got an error dialog. Any default ideas for host names?
July 9, 2006 7:19:36 PM

Make one up.
July 9, 2006 7:25:17 PM

host name is the name of your pc. it can be anything.. get creative.
July 9, 2006 7:30:25 PM

Thanks again for everyone's help.

Right, I've reinstalled Windows 98 (again) just for the sake of it, apparently as there haven't been any changes.

On to the DNS:

Default gateway: 192.168.0.1
DNS: 192.168.0.1
Host name: G

And the information I've entered for manual IP:

IP: 192.168.0.9
Subnet Mask: 255.255.255.0
July 9, 2006 7:33:08 PM

The internet didn't work with those settings, and there was 100% packet loss on a ping request to the router.
July 9, 2006 7:41:17 PM

you can't even ping the router?

Remove the tcp/ip protocol and reboot, then reinstall it.
July 9, 2006 8:22:59 PM

Dont worry about setting the computer to a static IP, it should be obtaining an IP address from the router just like your macintosh is. If its not getting an IP setting it statically will not help. Make sure everything is set to automatic and connect the computer directly to the modem and see if it pulls an IP address.
July 9, 2006 8:40:20 PM

Setting an IP manually will help identify if the tcp/ip stack is even functioning, which it clearly is not since he can't ping the router when using a static IP. I've seen cases where DHCP will not function, but everything else will.
July 9, 2006 9:25:59 PM

what you need to do is to ping these addresses in this order

127.0.0.1 - tcpip stack
192.168.0.1 - router
then try the internet

if you get no returned packets pinging 127.0.0.1 it means your tcpip stack is not functioning properly and you need to ensure that tcpip is installed and there is a correct driver for your NIC card

to check if dns is set correct....try pinging a computer on the internet by dns name.. such as ping www.bbc.co.uk

heres how you should set up your lan

turn off dhcp on router and set the address for the router to 192.168.0.1


WINDOWS 98 BOX
IP ADDRESS 192.168.0.3
SUBNET MASK 255.255.255.0
DEFAULT GATEWAY 192.168.0.1 (this is the router address)
DNS 192.168.0.1 (this is router address)



OTHER COMP ON LAN
IP ADDRESS 192.168.0.4
SUBNET MASK 255.255.255.0
DEFAULT GATEWAY 192.168.0.1 (this is the router address)
DNS 192.168.0.1 (this is router address)

things to check
makesure nic card is enabled and running from device manager
make sure you have set up a network connection and you have tcp/ip protocol running on it...you can always remove it and reinstall it as long as you have the windows 98 cd

check stack with ping 127.0.0.1
then ping router
then ping internet


good luck
July 9, 2006 9:29:52 PM

I've uninstalled, then reinstalled everything in the Network control panel. No luck.

I'm away from the problem system now to come up with some more ideas, but it's looking like they're going to have to buy XP.

If anyone wants to help me save £60, please give me any more suggestions you have.

And cheers for all your help so far (I know I've said that a lot but I do get slightly irritated by people who you help to the point of fixing and you get no thanks at all)
July 9, 2006 9:37:15 PM

what part of this process do you not get any ping returned packets

127.0.0.1 - tcpip stack
192.168.0.1 - router
then try the internet

??????????
July 9, 2006 9:40:18 PM

you could also create a fresh network conection from scratch
July 9, 2006 10:05:43 PM

None of them ping, and I'm not really sure what you mean by create a network from scratch.
July 9, 2006 10:35:54 PM

in 'network connections'.....delete the existing connection and create a new one. you might have to create a new one first to be able to delete the old one.
July 9, 2006 11:10:21 PM

Err, it's Windows 98. There isn't a 'network connections' folder. Thanks for the help, though.
July 9, 2006 11:41:10 PM

When you open the network in your control panel, is it showing the TCP/IP -> (Network adapter name)? If it is make sure the properties are set to obtain automatically, make sure the DNS is disabled and make sure the WINS configuration is using DHCP for wins resolutions. Reboot the computer and do a winipcfg to see if your getting an IP address for the adapter.
July 9, 2006 11:49:03 PM

Just off the wall, Does you ISP require the MAC address of the setup computer cloaned in to the router????

You said you have used diferent Nic and cables How about Lan port.
July 10, 2006 12:07:53 AM

Reinstalling 98 over itself won't reinstall the tcp stack files, there's a knowledge base article that shows how to do it right, it's all in a dos window and takes some time.

To test the barest of tcp functionality, set the ip to 192.168.0.2 (Assuming the router is 192.168.0.1) subnet 255.255.255.0 keep everything else empty except host which is anything upto 8 characters, make it simple, unplug all but the 98 box from the router, reboot the win98 box obviously after changing these settings. Then ping 192.168.0.1, if it doesn't reply, try a different port on the router, if that doesn't work, do the kb article steps, if that doesn't work, boot knopix and see if that works. If not you have a bum nic or router, or the cable may be bad, you can get a light with only two of four wire contacts.
July 10, 2006 6:55:56 AM

This is nothing to do with the router or ISP, btw. My PowerBook functions just fine with the same router, ISP, account...well it's all the same.

Anyway, I've tried all the different combinations of DNS, WINS, Auto/Manual IP aquisition. And I've tried all the different router ports, and a whole bunch of cables, all of which work on my Mac and all of which work on the PC as well.

I need to repeat I think, there is activity between the router and PC - both the NIC and router confirm 100mbps link is active, however Windows 98 is making no attempt to bother to either aquire or use any IP address it is given.[/b]
October 14, 2011 1:55:32 AM

mesarectifier said:
My grandparents have decided to get the internet. I've set them up with a broadband account and they've been given an old PC.

Trouble is that the PC is Windows 98 and it's decided to stop working with their Netgear DG814 router.

I've tested the router with their internet connection on my Macintosh and it's worked fine, first time. However with their Win98 system we can't get it to connect.

The router has a light saying that the PC is connected to it, however under the 'attached devices' menu in the router's config it only lists my PowerBook as being connected, not the PC.

I've tried the usual googling and KB search, and nothing came up.

I've already changed the NIC, and set the TCP/IP settings to 'obtain IP automatically' but to no avail.

Anyone got any thoughts?


connect 98pc to router
goto start, run, and type in

winipcfg

give abit time to run
click release all, then click renew all

it will then automatically assign new ip that router can read like
ip 98.168.1.100
sub 255.255.255.0
dgate 192.168.1.1
!