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Nvidia cards with a conroe system, or go ATi?

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July 9, 2006 10:39:33 PM

Well the new intel chipset dosen't support SLi, so if I wanted to go SLi with nvidia cards what would be the best choice of motherboard? Or will there be promising motherboards to be released that can support SLi and conroe.

Or would it be a wiser option to go with intels new mobo chipset and buy an ATI card, such as the X1800GTO over the 7600GT and run crossfire.

Basically I'm wanting to buy my video card first, but i'm worried I'll be a bit stuck if I bought a Nvidia card and couldn't get the new benefits of intels new chipset?

I won't be going SLi/Crossfire straight away with the new system, and I might not in the future because I don't know how dx10 cards will come in to perspective, but I would like the choice to use dual cards if need be.

So... X1800GTO or 7600GT for my new system? Also which motherboard would be a good choice?
July 9, 2006 11:18:35 PM

This is something I too am interested in.... I have been an AMD/nvidia guy since 2000.... I was thinking of swiching back to intel with conroe.... Now I have been reading that intel is supporting ati, and doesn't want nvidia or SLI run on their motherboards or with their CPU's.... If intel is gonna act this this, them I am gonna stick it out with AMD.... I was willing to switch to intel but I am not gonna let them bully me into also switch to ATI, becuase of some propriatary deal they have with ATI(or whatever you want to call it)....
July 9, 2006 11:23:45 PM

No need to go sli/crossfire if you don't do so right away, it just doesn't work out that way most of the time.

That said, even though motherboards may not immediately support it, eventually they will. In any case, I recommend until the chipsets/procs become more mature before making buying decisions anyway. Makes for a better outcome eventually. That means that the best chipset is probably a couple months away, and as such, not tested yet, and so not known.

I believe the X1800 is better than the 7600, simply because it is a step higher in the product line. I could be mistaken, however I do believe it has more pipelines and faster clocks.

About being "stuck" with something and not getting the full benefit: If you are just going to get one card, get the best card, as both will work. If you are deadset on a multi-GPU solution, wait until there is one for conroe for both setups, read some reviews, and then make your decision.
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July 9, 2006 11:28:25 PM

Dude, forget SLI and CF, especially with your budget.
July 9, 2006 11:42:30 PM

Quote:
This is something I too am interested in.... I have been an AMD/nvidia guy since 2000.... I was thinking of swiching back to intel with conroe.... Now I have been reading that intel is supporting ati, and doesn't want nvidia or SLI run on their motherboards or with their CPU's.... If intel is gonna act this this, them I am gonna stick it out with AMD.... I was willing to switch to intel but I am not gonna let them bully me into also switch to ATI, becuase of some propriatary deal they have with ATI(or whatever you want to call it)....


It has nothing to do with Intel being pissy, it's Nvidia. They refuse to license SLI to Intel. That being said, you can still do it with a patched driver, not to mention Quad SLI with a patched driver on a ES Conroe board, so I would imagine you can with the retails.
July 9, 2006 11:48:26 PM

Just wait for nvidia to come out with its chipset for core :) 
July 9, 2006 11:50:41 PM

Quote:
This is something I too am interested in.... I have been an AMD/nvidia guy since 2000.... I was thinking of swiching back to intel with conroe.... Now I have been reading that intel is supporting ati, and doesn't want nvidia or SLI run on their motherboards or with their CPU's.... If intel is gonna act this this, them I am gonna stick it out with AMD.... I was willing to switch to intel but I am not gonna let them bully me into also switch to ATI, becuase of some propriatary deal they have with ATI(or whatever you want to call it)....


It has nothing to do with Intel being pissy, it's Nvidia. They refuse to license SLI to Intel. That being said, you can still do it with a patched driver, not to mention Quad SLI with a patched driver on a ES Conroe board, so I would imagine you can with the retails.

hmm - Is this because NVidia is going to make their own intel/conroe motherboards? That way if someone wants SLI, not only do they have to purchase the card from NVidia, but they also have to get the motherboard from them?
July 10, 2006 12:23:57 AM

Another Sony-typed of business strategy, winner takes all. Not sure how it's gonna turn out, but obviously Sony lost many times with this kind of thing. Betamax and their camera line (memory stick that works only with Sony camera) Maybe Nvidia kinda firmly believe there's a lot of crazy ass folks who gonna pay $5000 for a system, beside that, who else gonna pay for 4 graphics card?
July 10, 2006 12:31:29 AM

so if I dont go SLi or CF, say I get a mobo with intels new chipset, would it pose any down in performance on a single 7600GT, because it is designed for crossfire and thus ATI cards...

Would a single nvidia card run any differently on a mobo with intels chipset than a mobo that is designed to support SLi?
July 10, 2006 12:37:21 AM

The nforce 590 motherboards probably won't be out till mid-August after reading the article in anandtech about them. The first reference boards from nvidia didn't get sent to the motherboard companies until after Computex. You can read more about it here. They haven't had an update so I expect one at anandtech this week.

http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=278...

I expect to see the announcements within the next two weeks by the motherboard companies on some specific new sli socket T boards then it will probably be a month before they actually ship. Could be longer but but I doubt it will be sooner then that. Personally I am going to wait till they have what I really want. I have just read too much negative stuff about crossfire and ATI cards.
July 10, 2006 1:19:29 AM

Quote:
I have just read too much negative stuff about crossfire and ATI cards.


The stuff you read was probably written by fanboys. Both Ati and Nvidia solutioons are pretty much on par if you're gaming with Windows.
July 10, 2006 1:31:57 AM

Quote:
Both Ati and Nvidia solutioons are pretty much on par if you're gaming with Windows.

Are you saying that Crossfire is on par with SLI?
July 10, 2006 1:42:06 AM

Performance wise....without a doubt. In terms of light hassle and money, not really. Mastercards are still expensive the dongle is a wee bit of a bitch I hear.

Anywho: Dude!! Where have you been????
July 10, 2006 1:51:48 AM

Quote:
I have just read too much negative stuff about crossfire and ATI cards.


The stuff you read was probably written by fanboys. Both Ati and Nvidia solutioons are pretty much on par if you're gaming with Windows.

Not really, I'm not talking about fanboy forum stuff. I'm talking about different reviews I've read on the internet. I did say crossfire and ATI cards. Also, I wasn't really commenting on the single card solution which I consider a crapshoot.

Here is what I have read:
ATI cards run slightly hotter, though both seem to be way out of control in this area currently. ATI crossfire solution is not as good as NVidia sli solution. The crossfire solution runs less efficently and you have to buy a master card to run crossfire. Both require a special motherboard.

ATI does have a little better graphics but it is no where close to being the difference the old Nvidia and 3dfx cards had where one ran 16 bit and the other 32.

As far as sticking with a single card and single gpu solution, like I said it is a crapshoot buy the highest end card you feel you are willing to pay for.
July 10, 2006 2:11:55 AM

ATI 3200 cross fire has a slight performance gain over nvidia; SLI has a limited power structure
a b U Graphics card
a b Î Nvidia
July 10, 2006 2:45:43 AM

Quote:

So... X1800GTO or 7600GT for my new system? Also which motherboard would be a good choice?


You can listen to everyone, but at this point in time they're just guessing like the rest of us.

It's a gut check issue for you, you gotta decide.

Both cards are very good, both cards offer cableless Xfire/SLi.

But the motherboard question is going to be an issue until it's all figured out.

The reality is that the current state of affairs is as you describe, it, whether that will change in the future is unknown.
a b U Graphics card
a b Î Nvidia
July 10, 2006 2:46:31 AM

No Master Card nor Dongle needed for the X1800GTO in Xfire, so no difference for these cards.
a b U Graphics card
a b Î Nvidia
July 10, 2006 3:00:41 AM

Quote:

Here is what I have read:
ATI cards run slightly hotter, though both seem to be way out of control in this area currently.


And at the high end nV runs that heat back into your case, whereas ATi exhausts it outside the case making your CPU/Memory/HD feel better, and that cooler running doesn't seem to help the failinf GF7900GTs and GTXs, so what's the benifit other than looking good on a graph? Only someone with a closed system using water cooling might care, if then.

Quote:
ATI crossfire solution is not as good as NVidia sli solution.


Pretty generalized statement. There have been issues for both, and remain issues for both.

Quote:
The crossfire solution runs less efficently


Sometimes the SLi runs less efficiently as well, and efficient isn't really what people buy them for. 40% bost from SLi versus 35% boost from Xfire doesn't matter if the starting point has the nV card running @ 90% the speed of the ATi card. You buy it for whichever one performs faster, not more efficiently, that's the silliest PR argument, and never makes sense for buying or gaming.

Quote:
and you have to buy a master card to run crossfire.


Not for the X1300 and X1600, and specifically NOT for the card he's he's asking about the X1800GTO. Perhaps you'd want to address that before the theoretical setups.

Quote:
ATI does have a little better graphics but it is no where close to being the difference the old Nvidia and 3dfx cards had where one ran 16 bit and the other 32.


Or the R300 vs NV30?
The major Iq advantages, FP16HDR+AA, Temporal AA, HQAF (see HL2 demo below);
http://www.pureoverclock.com/article39-3.html

Depends on what you value, IQ or 'efficiency'.

Quote:
As far as sticking with a single card and single gpu solution, like I said it is a crapshoot buy the highest end card you feel you are willing to pay for.


Yeah if that's the way you buy it is a crap shoot, read reviews and pick the games you play, then you can decide which is better, as both have their stronger/weaker games.
a b U Graphics card
July 10, 2006 3:07:26 AM

[H] totally gives the IQ victory to Crossfire in this review:

http://enthusiast.hardocp.com/article.html?art=MTA4Mywx...

Quote from the Summary:
"We took an in-depth look at image quality in this evaluation. We had two 30” LCD’s side-by-side and were able to look at IQ in-game. Culminating everything we learned we can confidently say that the ATI Radeon X1900 XTX CrossFire platform offered the best image quality in games.

We have all the proof to back this up. With the Radeon X1900 XTX and CrossFire platform antialiasing plus HDR is possible in Oblivion. ATI has the ability to do multisampling plus floating point blending HDR. ATI has a “High Quality” anisotropic filtering option which has real tangible image quality benefits in games with little to no performance hit. In large outdoor games this is a huge benefit. It also helps in games that have very high quality and detailed textures like Half Life 2: Episode 1 and Ghost Recon. Having these two displays side-by-side proved that texture crawling and moiré are worse on NVIDIA hardware at default driver settings compared to ATI hardware. We especially noticed this in World of Warcraft, Half Life 2: Episode 1, and Battlefield 2. When you look at all this added up it becomes clear that ATI still holds the image quality crown."
July 10, 2006 3:11:53 AM

Quote:

And at the high end nV runs that heat back into your case


This indeed is very true, however the X1800GTO & X1900GT is a single slot solution cooler thats just like the 7900GT(X)....no exhaustion of heat :cry: 

So I honestly dont think its very fair to compare the GTO and GT in this respect.

EDIT: I'm sure you knew about the fan design, I was just hammering the point....you know I i love you bud lol :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol: 
a b U Graphics card
a b Î Nvidia
July 10, 2006 3:13:44 AM

LOL!

And if you look at FiringSquad they gave it to nV.

So a 'notorious nV-site' praising ATi and a 'notorious ATi-site' praising nV. :mrgreen:

BTW, by 'notorious' I'm of course being sarcastic, called that by the people who haven't read more than one review from the site.
a b U Graphics card
a b Î Nvidia
July 10, 2006 3:19:30 AM

Quote:

This indeed is very true, however the X1800GTO & X1900GT is a single slot solution cooler thats just like the 7900GT(X)....no exhaustion of heat :cry: 


Unless you get the HIS :twisted:
But yeah I was simply responding to his generalities and pointing out that in the top end that corcern si less for some.

Quote:
So I honestly dont think its very fair to compare the GTO and GT in this respect.


I agree, but of course I was talking to his points. GTO versus GT, remember that the GTO runs cooler than an XT (heck the power consumption is less than half the XT so the heat generated has to be half that as well, so how efficiently does it remove it?) and that's there's other things to consider like overclocking, etc.

Quote:
EDIT: I'm sure you knew about the fan design, I was just hammering the point....you know I i love you bud lol :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol: 


No worries mang, hey I expect people to call me on stuff, I try to ensure it's within the context of the statement, but I can easily be as mistaken as the next guy, especially with all my typos. 8O
July 10, 2006 3:20:46 AM

Quote:

Anywho: Dude!! Where have you been????

Lol...I work too much. Thanks for asking :wink:

As far as SLI vs. Crossfire, nVidia makes games SLI ready through their drivers much much faster than ATi.
July 10, 2006 3:23:03 AM

Quote:

Anywho: Dude!! Where have you been????

Lol...I work too much. Thanks for asking :wink:


I was beginning to worry. Plus I've fillin in your stead question legitimacy of certain posters.....so I'm seeing now you've rubbed off on me, and I've schedualed the quickest possible appointment for a shrink. Needless to say, I'm not going to be around for a couple hours tommorrow :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol: 

Good to see your doing alright bro. :mrgreen:
a b U Graphics card
July 10, 2006 3:26:17 AM

:lol:  point understood.


I'll have to check into the FS review again to see just what they were comparing. Did they strive for max IQ, or just compare 4x/16x screenshots? I have a feeling they did not even try AA + HDR nor enable HQAF. Probably no mention of texture crawling as [H] said they will continue to expose as long as either comapnies default driver settings has the issue. I see [H] as being one of the sites who digs into the issues and isn't afraid to expose negative points toward either company. FS has it's good points too, so I'll check the article.
a b U Graphics card
a b Î Nvidia
July 10, 2006 3:29:36 AM

I can't remember, it's been a while since I read it, and since I'm on myway out to see Pirates with the gang, I can't check.

But I'll look into it tomorrow.
Fom memory no 'true' IQ tests so much as settings/performance results.

But I'd have to re-read it, because there was some mention of quality but can't remember the reference.
July 10, 2006 3:32:44 AM

Quote:
I've fillin in your stead question legitimacy of certain posters.....so I'm seeing now you've rubbed off on me

Heh....I think did see you ask for a 3dmark link from someone who was probably bullshitting :lol:  ....good show.
July 10, 2006 3:34:28 AM

@ Grape

I just want to let you know: When the ending to that movie came, I stood up in the middle of the theatre and yelled "wtf!!".......true story.

So make sure you have two drinks, becuase its quite a long movie.
a b U Graphics card
July 10, 2006 3:41:58 AM

Yeah, no biggie but if you find the link let me know. I didn't see any IQ title sectiona in a few of their reviews and only ATI/NV IQ specific test that I can find they did was back in 2003. :p 

I honestly don't pay huge attention to crossfire vs. SLI. I tend to think high end performance is a trading blows situation with at least some IQ advantage going to ATI. And like GW said, it's my feeling that SLI profile support is probably a step or two ahead of crossfire. But I haven't used either, so who am I to comment on them. My biggest issue with crossfire has been the master card. I would have bought a second $220 X1800XT and even replaved my mobo just for fun if I could have run two slave cards. Of course NV typically hasn't been much better for the future upgrader. Look what a new 7800GT would cost if I had wanted to SLi that one intstead of buying the X1800XT.
a b U Graphics card
July 10, 2006 3:44:46 AM

BTW, Enjoy the flick. I am hoping to take my wife out to see that one soon as we both got a major kick out of the first one.
a b U Graphics card
July 10, 2006 3:51:30 AM

Hi Ho GW, how's it going? Hope you got some time off during the Holiday at least. We stuck around town this year so I worked Monday; kinda dissappointing when most folks I know took a 4 day weekend. Shoot, on the 4th, I called 8 places before finding a pizza/sub shop that was open. :cry: 
July 10, 2006 5:04:29 AM

no one answered... will using a single nvidia card on intels new chipet be a bad choice? would there be any bottlenecks on the card/less performance? Than there would be if it ran on a chipset set up for SLI.
July 10, 2006 5:12:19 AM

No there wouldn't be a bottleneck with a single nvidia if you were only intending on one card to begin with. However, the videocard will always be a bottleneck on all but the most powerful systems. It'll just be less of a bottleneck with SLI. Single card solutions are however powerful enough for most applications though, including games. Just not with all the eye candy turned on...
July 10, 2006 1:51:25 PM

Quote:
Exactly, its even on their website.
http://www.nvidia.com/object/IO_31679.html


I think I would rather get an NVidia chipset motherboard anyway.... I guess we will have to wait and see how the benchmarks/performance compare to an intel chipset motherboard....
a b U Graphics card
a b Î Nvidia
July 10, 2006 5:01:09 PM

Quote:
I just want to let you know: When the ending to that movie came, I stood up in the middle of the theatre and yelled "wtf!!".......true story.


Which part, before or after the credits?
The after the credits part made me go WTF! But before that I knew it's a two parter, so I expected that part.
a b U Graphics card
a b Î Nvidia
July 10, 2006 5:08:07 PM

Quote:
no one answered... will using a single nvidia card on intels new chipet be a bad choice? would there be any bottlenecks on the card/less performance? Than there would be if it ran on a chipset set up for SLI.


No, why would there be.

The only difference might be what the BIOS of the mobo does differently. But at the core they are the same chipsets, and the SLi/Xfires are the top versions of their line, with the added support for multi-GPU.

Anywhoo if you can wait, wait for more info, if not, then consider everything you hear, but then also consider the fact that you would likely be better offf with a single DX10 card after selling whatever you buy now anyways.
July 10, 2006 5:13:30 PM

Quote:
I just want to let you know: When the ending to that movie came, I stood up in the middle of the theatre and yelled "wtf!!".......true story.


Which part, before or after the credits?
The after the credits part made me go WTF! But before that I knew it's a two parter, so I expected that part.

I didnt stay for after the credits. Damnit!! Look what you've done!! Now I'm going to have the impulse to go back, watch the thing all over again and stay just too see the end of the roll. Good job!!!

No: I meant the captain: After that fairy showed up and the movie cut out..I was just like "WTF!!??"...
a b U Graphics card
a b Î Nvidia
July 10, 2006 7:25:08 PM

Quote:

I didnt stay for after the credits. Damnit!! Look what you've done!! Now I'm going to have the impulse to go back, watch the thing all over again and stay just too see the end of the roll. Good job!!!


Don't bother, if the pre-credit scene made you say WTF, the post credit 2 second shot is worse! Remember that at the end of the first one the monkey screems at the camera at the end of the credits, so you should know they were going to do something again. :twisted:

Quote:
No: I meant the captain: After that fairy showed up and the movie cut out..I was just like "WTF!!??"...


Yeah no fairy on ours, but I knew that was going to happen the moment the witch opened her mouth. I don't want to give anything away to anyone else, but I knew that was coming and I knew they were going to leave it a cliffhanger until the final movie (like Lord of The Rings).

They said from the starting of shooting that it was going to be 1 movie split in half (Like LOTR [thirds], KillBill, etc).
July 10, 2006 9:21:33 PM

errr wtf has this got to do with my thread? 8O
July 10, 2006 9:59:05 PM

Quote:
errr wtf has this got to do with my thread? 8O



ROFL lol, i just whatched the film and even i thought after 2 hours and 40 mins of pirates in saying WTF is going on its ridiculous, this is a goonies adventure gone way 2 long.
a b U Graphics card
a b Î Nvidia
July 10, 2006 10:08:22 PM

Well it's an evolutionary thing, we answer your questions, and then those that come up as things go along.

What are you on dial-up that it matters so much?

It's not completely hijacking, just an aside.

Seriously take my Ford/GM analogy to heart, you're asking about things that are still under NDA and no one has tested yet.

So the answer to your questions is simple. There is no answer, go with your gut, and if you're wrong sell it on eBay and buy again!

End of question, now back to the movies.... :tongue:
!