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New to Forumz, new rig for approval

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July 11, 2006 7:06:06 AM

Hi everyone, I'm trying to get a new gaming rig, and I have put together a list of items Im looking at getting... I have not yet included a vid card, so recomendations for that would be appretiated.

SAMSUNG 16X DVD±R DVD Burner With 5X DVD-RAM Write and LightScribe Black ATA/ATAPI Model SH-S162L/BEBN - OEM

Thermaltake Armor Series VA8000BWS Black Aluminum/Steel ATX Full Tower Computer Case - Retail

Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 ST3320620AS (Perpendicular Recording Technology) 320GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM

ASUS A8N32-SLI Deluxe Socket 939 NVIDIA nForce SPP 100 ATX AMD Motherboard - Retail

HIPER HPU-4K580-MS ATX12V 580W Power Supply - Retail

OCZ Titanium 2GB (2 x 1GB) 184-Pin DDR SDRAM DDR 400 (PC 3200) Unbuffered Dual Channel Kit System Memory Model OCZ4002048ELDCTE-K - Retail

AMD Athlon 64 FX60 Toledo 2000MHz HT Socket 939 Dual Core Processor Model ADAFX60CDBOX - Retail


I have a few more questions about what I intend to build...
1.) Should I consider an AM2 board? I really don't know much about them, I havn't built a comp in a while... Also, what's the deal with Conroe, should I wait and get one of those, or will they be ridiculously overpriced?
2.) I heard that Nvidia might be releasing a new line soon, something about a dx10 card, is this true, and if so, should I just get a 7900GT for now?

It seems both amd and intel are revamping their linups, which kind of sucks cause I really can't wait around too long. My current comp died and it was time to upgrade, I can use the comp at the library for maybe a month, but I once school starts I definately need one...

any and all help is greatly appreciated.

More about : forumz rig approval

July 11, 2006 8:21:06 AM

If this thing is going to be for gaming, wait for Conroe. Same performance as the FX-60, for a LOT less money.
July 11, 2006 8:43:25 AM

the new dx10 cards wont be comin out for a while
get the 7900gt
also i would defenitely wait for the core2duo's
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July 11, 2006 10:33:46 AM

With the obvious money you have to put into this (FX-60), I would recommend a few changes:
Drop FX-60 and get the FX-57
Use the savings there to get a couple SLI cards (recommend 7900 GTs as a start)

At this point, would agree with most others tho - AM2 is the way to go for AMD fans (me) and I dont recommend the dual cores for gaming until after Vista comes out. By then, prices should be massively lower. Nothing worse then buying a Fx-60 one day to see it drop by $400 the next month.
July 11, 2006 2:37:56 PM

Quote:
With the obvious money you have to put into this (FX-60), I would recommend a few changes:
Drop FX-60 and get the FX-57


As for that the difference is slim... the difference in price on tigerdirect is 70$ and on newegg even less...

If core2duo is the way to go, how long will it be before there is a good supply of mobos/other hardware to support the procs?
July 11, 2006 3:32:45 PM

My first reply would have been to drop the Fx-60 for a 4000+ Orleans, then pick up an FX later when prices drop. Savings there would be close to $700 from Newegg.
Check out the CPU Interactive ratings from Toms Hardware for a comparison.

The Core Duo chips are out, but it may be another month or so before the mobos supporting go mainstream - speaking out of turn here tho, as I prefer AMD for gaming as a rule. I have yet to see any (mainstream) Intel based machine out produce an equitable AMD rig - but I'm sure the Intel fans here would disagree.
July 11, 2006 4:02:31 PM

Quote:
The Core Duo chips are out, but it may be another month or so before the mobos supporting go mainstream - speaking out of turn here tho, as I prefer AMD for gaming as a rule. I have yet to see any (mainstream) Intel based machine out produce an equitable AMD rig - but I'm sure the Intel fans here would disagree.


Err, that's not true.

Core 2 doesn't come out for a couple of weeks, but the motherboards are already out.

Also, Core 2 outperforms ALL AMD chips in gaming.
July 11, 2006 4:45:44 PM

Last data I had to go off of was TH's interactive CPU charts. Looking into other forums now ...

Hope TH updates their stats soon tho.
July 11, 2006 5:36:51 PM

Intelbies everywhere!!! lol

Dude, you're gaming, right? Dual Cores are nice, but not necessary, and don't bring the gains that a nice GPU does (in the majority of cases). So, regardless of who's cpu performs the best, even the cheap cpu's that are out right now do darn well. Sorry Conroe folks, but the difference between 200 and 300 fps or even 100 and 140 fps, doesn't matter in the real world. So, get the fastest single core chip, that is NOT a special edition that you can afford. Personally, I think spending money on anything faster than a 2.4ghz amd is silly at this point in time. So, I'd recommend the Venice 3800. Spend all the money you save on the rest of the platform and GPU (or GPU's) and down the road you can either upgrade just the cpu, or more likely, get a new motherboard and CPU, and swap your hard drive, GPU's etc, into it. Then you've got little invested in your current rig that won't cross over and can still go Conroe OR AM2 down the road. So, make sure you don't over do the RAM, either.
July 11, 2006 5:40:37 PM

Errr, you don't buy a Core 2 just because it's dual core, you buy a Core 2 because it's better than the best AMD for half the price.
July 11, 2006 5:42:44 PM

You don't KNOW the prices yet. Wait till Newegg has them in stock at least! lol. I'm very interested in seeing how the SINGLE core conroe based CPU's are priced, but they are further off, so we'll see.

Why does it always have to be Intelbies VS. the Horde?
Can't those of us who aren't a member of either side have a say?
July 11, 2006 5:48:28 PM

whoo, intel/amd battle!

anyway, the core2duo is supposed to come out on the 24th correct? I can probably wait until then to see what happens. If those things get rated to be the $hit, I'll pick one up, and if not, AMD will have dropped their prices...

also, I read somewhere that the dx10 cards are going to be coming out around November-ish, is that true? I can prolly buy a cheap vid card to tide me over til those come out...

OH, and btw, any suggestions on the REST of the rig, or is it fine?
July 11, 2006 5:58:41 PM

Quote:
Dual Cores are nice, but not necessary, and don't bring the gains that a nice GPU does (in the majority of cases).

listen to this man. few will really use 2 cores.

you can pick up a cheap 939 board and a 3700+ for peanuts at the moment. the 3700+ sandy code is good for well past 2.8ghz and it cost about £90 or somethin over here. dont go spending £700 on something your not going to use.

maybe if u do alot of video encoding but apart from that its not worth it.
coreduo may get amazing bechmarks but its not here.

http://tomshardware.co.uk/2006/07/10/can_your_rig_run_o...
still not sure about the dual core thing. read.
July 11, 2006 6:25:10 PM

There are a whole bunch of websites in the UK that have Conroe prices

Example:

E6600 - £252

FX62 - £728 (!!!)

Core 2 - proven to be faster, and a third of the price.
July 11, 2006 6:26:29 PM

I think we'll see reasons to use dual/multi core systems more and more in the future, but If your gaming, you don't NEED to be doing something in the background, so don't. Oblivion is not very well optimized for dual core, other games show far better numbers, but as stated elsewhere, the difference between 100 and 150 fps doesn't matter. Spend more money on your GPU and you'll be happier. I just don't like the heat the current ati's produce. Hopefully 80nm helps the x1950 out a bit.
July 11, 2006 6:30:08 PM

Quote:
Err, that's not true.

Core 2 doesn't come out for a couple of weeks, but the motherboards are already out.

Also, Core 2 outperforms ALL AMD chips in gaming.


Wait, let me get this straight.
[*:D d67ccfe26]Core 2 isn't out yet
[*:D d67ccfe26]Core 2 won't be coming out for several weeks
[*:D d67ccfe26]Even though Core 2 isn't even available, it somehow outperforms other chips that are currently being marketed.


Oh that's right, you're basing these performance "facts" on pre-released, lab-tested, "beta" hardware. Or is it mostly due to fanboyism?
I'm just tired of seeing "conroe" in every single thread with gargantuan claims to insurmountable superiority within the performance arena. As far as I'm concerned, if you're so heavily advocating something based on hearsay and lab-environment test results you're not only taking a walk of faith, but you're an Intel fanboy.
And if you feel insulted by what I've written, you have my pity.


On topic, if you're planning to buy a top-end system, TheProffessor, I recommend getting something that will be a bit more future-proof. Go with an AM2 system, you'll have more options for future upgrades as well as a greater performance boost with higher-end hardware selections.
There's always the option to wait it out and see what the technology drive comes up with. To be fair, there are Intel chips coming out at the end of this month for which the fan-community has staked claims of stellar performances. It's really up to you as whether or not you buy now (and hopefully with AM2) or wait it out and see what turns out when the dust settles.
July 11, 2006 6:33:36 PM

Dear Mister Intelbie,

Market determines pricing. Maybe the few who pay to pre-order will get a good deal, but Intel will not have volume of the chip this year according to THEIR own statement. Thus, expect to see people fighting on ebay to buy the things and expect to see prices reflecting demand. I don't know how things were over there, but when the PS2 was release hear, at an MSRP of $300 US, you couldn't find one for less than $450. The people who did pre-order them were selling them at inflated prices. It's just like scalping tickets. So, I'm just saying "don't count you chickens till the eggs all hatch." Your "Intel Revolution" is coming, but maybe not as soon as you'd like.
July 11, 2006 6:38:27 PM

Right, you caught me, I'm such a fanboy. You know I'm surprised I can still read this after dying my skin blue and having 'Netburst' tattooed onto the back of my eyes.

I'm going on benchmarks that I think everyone has seen - do you remember the prerelease Conroe beating the FX62 on every tech website? Obviously the tests were not 100% scientific due to Intel's dictation of the system specs and the fact that final release Core 2 CPUs were not available, however the results were quite clear.

I can't be bothered to thrash this one out, but it's fairly obvious to anyone who has bothered to look that the Core 2 CPUs are giving AMD a substantial whipping.
July 11, 2006 6:46:37 PM

alright, I'm going to play devils advocate here...

say I do get a Core 2 CPU when they come out in a few weeks, which type of chip/mobo combination would you recommend and what kind of price are we talking about. As you can see from my initial specs, I wouldn't mind paying 800-1000 for a good cpu/mobo set so I can somewhat future proof in that area and not have to upgrade anytime soon.
July 11, 2006 6:51:19 PM

Quote:
Right, you caught me, I'm such a fanboy. You know I'm surprised I can still read this after dying my skin blue and having 'Netburst' tattooed onto the back of my eyes.

I'm going on benchmarks that I think everyone has seen - do you remember the prerelease Conroe beating the FX62 on every tech website? Obviously the tests were not 100% scientific due to Intel's dictation of the system specs and the fact that final release Core 2 CPUs were not available, however the results were quite clear.

I can't be bothered to thrash this one out, but it's fairly obvious to anyone who has bothered to look that the Core 2 CPUs are giving AMD a substantial whipping.


:) 

It's a never-ending battle with no sight of a victor. You can pick and choose sides, or you can present the facts and engage in discussion with the intent to learn and examine objectively.
Yes, Conroe topped it's AMD counter-part in various instances. But I didn't observe any real "superiority", only marginal differences. That's where I get confused by all this Conroe-hype. And it is, it's hype.
July 11, 2006 6:51:59 PM

You got to decide what GPU you are using if you are considering ever doing SLI/Crossfire, then base your decision off that. Personally, I'd go with the top of the line nforce Intel edition motherboard, probably from Asus. lol! Single cards are ok on Intel chipsets, of course, and some intel chipsets can do ati/crossfire, but It just depends on application too much.
July 11, 2006 7:18:06 PM

Quote:
With the obvious money you have to put into this (FX-60), I would recommend a few changes:
Drop FX-60 and get the FX-57


As for that the difference is slim... the difference in price on tigerdirect is 70$ and on newegg even less...

If core2duo is the way to go, how long will it be before there is a good supply of mobos/other hardware to support the procs?

There are already mobos out that support Conroe.
July 11, 2006 9:11:55 PM

Quote:
alright, I'm going to play devils advocate here...

say I do get a Core 2 CPU when they come out in a few weeks, which type of chip/mobo combination would you recommend and what kind of price are we talking about. As you can see from my initial specs, I wouldn't mind paying 800-1000 for a good cpu/mobo set so I can somewhat future proof in that area and not have to upgrade anytime soon.


Last time I checked, Core 2 Duo is coming out on July 14. Today is July 11. You can already pre-order Core 2's at some websites. From the benchmarks that I've seen, the Core 2 E6300 performs about the same as the FX62. The E6300 costs $200. The FX62 costs $1200. You do the math.
July 11, 2006 10:29:37 PM

wow, if that holds true, that's something... I'd still like to see some more real world tests, but the initial findings do look promissing

what sites are doing pre-orders?
July 12, 2006 5:07:43 AM

you guys just love putting money to waste. dude that 7900 is no good, et a 7600gt, dx10 cards will be out veryyyy sooon. that fx is no ood either, et a conroe, or a x2 , and third of all, why the hell are people still buying 939's. wtf??!!!
July 12, 2006 5:45:04 AM

Just because a socket is slightly outdated doesn't mean it doesn't perform well. The 7900gt will shitkick the 7600gt anyday of the week. The only point I agree with you on is the fact that the FX chips are a waste of money.
July 12, 2006 7:28:37 AM

yawns, first off if we all agree with nothing else we do agree on buying a fx chip right now is NOT smart at all most people could make a whole computer out of how much that chip costs. my friend who bought one ( god knows why... maybe for better gaming though no point really since it only games like 1 2 hours a day ) and from what they said about those chips not comming down in price is basically letting us know that intel HAS to be bluffing but that test didnt show that they was bluffing at all. amd gotta drop those prices because i wanna laugh at my friend for buying a 1000 buck chip and laugh even more when i saw i made my whole rig with 1000 bucks or less :) 


everyone just get along and wait til intel conroe cores come out. until then shut ur trap about who is better.

technically right now : intel owns due to the bench marks

physically - amd owns due to having a fast processor costing as much as a computer out.


if the fx processors were a lot lower i would like it. but people getting an fx-62 dual core processor are just wasting money but they still got bragging rights for a few days. ( that is if intel has a good processor)


hmm reminds me: tell my mom to invest her savings on the day before intel releases it processors .... and the stock will rise and ill be happy with the money made on it :) .

thats why i love this site: lots of smart people that know computers here

quick question: what is a good amd processor thats the best bang for the buck?
and whats a good intel procesor thats the bang for the buck also?

just wanted to know since im going to build a system thats compatible and hit a dualcore next year.


and if anyone saw those benchies from oblivion they killed dual cores like they were like a single core. they SUPPOSE to be double as fast as a single core but oblivion has show us that that is not true at all.

and if someone objects that show me a dual core processor going double as fast as a single core processor, and you made me a believer.
July 12, 2006 8:30:14 AM

Guys I have a question!
If you oc an amd 4600x2 to 3Ghz or 3.2Ghz (if possible) would it somehow match an FX processor?
July 12, 2006 8:56:03 AM

hmm not sure. whats the cache of it?
July 12, 2006 9:40:30 AM

Single core conroe?

(scratches head...) haven't heard of that one.
July 12, 2006 10:04:19 AM

Quote:

physically - amd owns due to having a fast processor costing as much as a computer out.


Not to mention hot enough to use as a stove-top...


Quote:
if the fx processors were a lot lower i would like it. but people getting an fx-62 dual core processor are just wasting money but they still got bragging rights for a few days. ( that is if intel has a good processor)


Like a third less? Or a 4th?


Quote:
hmm reminds me: tell my mom to invest her savings on the day before intel releases it processors .... and the stock will rise and ill be happy with the money made on it :) .


Bad timing... The money's already been made.

Quote:
thats why i love this site: lots of smart people that know computers here

quick question: what is a good amd processor thats the best bang for the buck?
and whats a good intel procesor thats the bang for the buck also?

just wanted to know since im going to build a system thats compatible and hit a dualcore next year.


You're a smart lad, figure it out.


Quote:
and if anyone saw those benchies from oblivion they killed dual cores like they were like a single core. they SUPPOSE to be double as fast as a single core but oblivion has show us that that is not true at all.

and if someone objects that show me a dual core processor going double as fast as a single core processor, and you made me a believer.


I really dislike sloppy programmers...
July 12, 2006 10:28:05 AM

haha sloppy programming indeed, but the game looks good. too bad that game will kill the pc im using right now since this thing is 3 years old.
July 12, 2006 11:03:09 AM

Hey P,
Read the reports, do your homework, and compare FPS, reliability, what your budget is, etc etc. Thats the only way you will be able to be comfortable with what you get. Remember, it's YOUR money, NOT OURS!!!

I built my rig about 4 months ago and before that I spent about 6 months reading consumer reviews, forums, friends, etc etc. Now I COULD have spent $ 6500.00 CDN, (that's bout $ 6000.00 USD) but When I reviewed my budget, what I wanted to play the current games out.......and of course how much trouble I would be in from the wife :roll: , I had to settle on a budget of $ 4200.00 CDN ($ 3900.00 USD) HOWEVER....with what I got, I can run any game inlcuding ELder SCrolls, FEAR, COD2, Quake4, you name it.....WIDE OPEN BABY :D  . So remember P. it's easy for us to say "get CONROE" or get that" but that's just talk....Do the homework cuz it's the only way you will be TOTALLY satisfied with an EDUCATED purchase.....not just on a "recomm" from some guys you have never met in your life.
this is what I got 4 months ago for $ 4200,00 CDN

OEM xp home w/SP2
Samsung Floppy
McAfee antivirus
NOW FOR THE BIG ENCHALADA BABY MUUUAHAHAHAHA

RIG specs
Antec P180 PerformanceSeries Mid-Tower Case
SeaSonic S12 600 watt power supply
Asus A8N32 SLI mobo AMD N-Force 4 SLIX16 (bios 1103 V02.58)
RealTek 97 onboard digital 5.1 Surround
AMD Athlon 64 X2 4800+ Toledo Core, 2 X 1mb L2 cache (AMD drivers w/MS hotfix)
2 gigs of Corsair TwinX3500LL Pro @ 437Mhz 2-3-2-6-1T
2- BFG Tech 7900 GT OC 256mg in SLI (nvidia driver 84.21)
Western Digital RAPTOR 74.3 gig 10-K rpm HDD for XP & Apps
Maxtor SATA II 250 G HDD for gaming, movies, MP3's
Maxtor SATA II 250 G HDD for document backup (unplugged)
Sony CD rom 52X
Plextor 708-A DVD/CD rom
Logitech Z-5500 digital 5.1 THX Surround 500watts
July 12, 2006 11:17:43 AM

If you're getting an Asus board, avoid OCZ - they don't play well together. Get 2GB of Corsair's XMS line instead.
July 12, 2006 11:19:29 AM

I agree with YOMOMMA,
ASUS mobo's are not happy campers with OCZ IN GENERAL

Check out what timings I get with ASUS and Corsair

RIG specs
Antec P180 PerformanceSeries Mid-Tower Case
SeaSonic S12 600 watt power supply
Asus A8N32 SLI mobo AMD N-Force 4 SLIX16 (bios 1103 V02.58)
RealTek 97 onboard digital 5.1 Surround
AMD Athlon 64 X2 4800+ Toledo Core, 2 X 1mb L2 cache (AMD drivers w/MS hotfix)
2 gigs of Corsair TwinX3500LL Pro @ 437Mhz 2-3-2-6-1T
2- BFG Tech 7900 GT OC 256mg in SLI (nvidia driver 84.21)
Western Digital RAPTOR 74.3 gig 10-K rpm HDD for XP & Apps
Maxtor SATA II 250 G HDD for gaming, movies, MP3's
Maxtor SATA II 250 G HDD for document backup (unplugged)
Sony CD rom 52X
Plextor 708-A DVD/CD rom
Logitech Z-5500 digital 5.1 THX Surround 500watts
July 12, 2006 11:47:33 AM

Just to momentarily veer back on-topic and try to answer the original poster's question...

The Hiper PSU you mention isn't SLi-rated. That probably doesn't matter, but just for comfort's sake, and because you have a big budget, get the Enermax Liberty 620W unit instead.

If you have concerns about vid card longevity, get one 7900GT for now. You'll probably find it more than adequate. A few months down the line, if loads of funky new stuff comes out, then you can retire the 7900GT knowing you didn't over-invest. If not, stick another 7900GT in there and your rig is good for at least another 6 months.

I agree with the other posters who say that you shouldn't throw tons of money at CPU/RAM/mobo. In particular, don't buy 2 gigs of DDR1, that's definitely not future-proof. If you don't want to wait for Conroe, socket AM2 is a reasonable compromise, because at least it uses the same RAM as Conroe, so if it does turn out to be as awesome as everyone says it is, you can at least keep the RAM when you upgrade.

As for dual vs. single core, I personally like dual but that's because I use my box for stuff other than games, and I like the responsiveness and multitasking ability. If games are all you care about, you'll get more fps for your money by going with single-core - that is, until game developers start writing properly multithreaded games (when that will happen, though, is anyone's guess).
July 12, 2006 12:45:20 PM

Quote:
The Hiper PSU you mention isn't SLi-rated.


Yes it is. I have the Hiper 580W, and clearly on the toolbox it has the SLI seal of approval. And I believe it's listed on newegg.com as an SLI-certified PSU - I only wanted a power supply with SLI certification, so I bought the Hiper.
July 12, 2006 1:03:56 PM

Hum, fair enough. My one doesn't have any of that, I must have an earlier model or something.

In that case, the Hiper is a great choice, as it has the best implementation of modular PSU design I've seen. And if you're the type who likes their PC's innards to be exposed, the Hiper is awfully pretty.
July 12, 2006 1:35:47 PM

Definitely. The unit is whisper-quiet and puts out gobs of clean, stable power. It's currently fueling an Asus M2N-SLI Deluxe with an Athlon 64 X2 3800+, a 7900 GT, three hard drives (one Raptor, 2 x 250GB), two optical drives, and two case fans plus the coolers on the CPU and GPU. Plenty good enough.
July 12, 2006 3:36:29 PM

Quote:
Single core conroe?

(scratches head...) haven't heard of that one.


I haven't heard the official name they will have for the core/revision, but just like any other CPU, they got to do something with the dies that are NOT fully functional. Looks like they'll be hitting the shelves real late '06 or first quarter 07. They are on the Roadmap.
July 12, 2006 3:43:53 PM

Quote:
haha sloppy programming indeed, but the game looks good. too bad that game will kill the pc im using right now since this thing is 3 years old.


Sloppy programming might have a small factor in things, but people don't seem to get the fact that the game runs great at LOW settings even on 3 year old computers. Case in point, my brother in laws athlon xp with 9600 does fine with no eye candy at 1024X768.
July 12, 2006 6:21:45 PM

Just a few things....

I have the same DVD burner: Great Burner.

On Conroe pricing. I think it has died down in this particular thread, but you must be choking on your breakfast to think that AMD will still offer a slower processor at a $600 premium. You must be mad to think AMD would do that. They will, OF COURSE, lower their prices to match Intel's. Simple marketing.

DX10 Cards will be out later this year, DX10 will debut with Vista around Q1 '07, mature (meaning not buggy) games will be out Q3/Q4 '07. I would say buy a X1900XT or a 7900GT if you probably won't get a DX10 card. If you think you will get a X1800XT/XTX/GTO or a 7600GT.

I say go for a AMD AM2 X2 3800+. Dual-Core may not help in-game, but if you run more than 2 programs at once, they sure help. I've already seen plans for numerous multi-threaded games, NVM2 being one of them. And yes, I have noticed the difference from a 2.8 Single core to a 2.8 Dual Core. They were Intel, though.

I have not heard anything about a Core Single Core. There is a mobile Core Single, Core Solo...

I love the Modular Cabling done on the Hiper, it looks amazing.

~Ibrahim~
a b B Homebuilt system
July 12, 2006 7:31:57 PM

I'm inclined to believe that Conroe will end up being superior in performance in most things to AMD, but likely nowhere near as much as the carefully-crafted Intel-designed tests have indicated. Until I can go out to [pick your favorite site] and buy one, Conroe is vaporware. If I were going to build another rig soon, I'd wait for Conroe and some Real World test results. They will be too less-expensive not to wait a mere few weeks to a month, just to find out before buying. Still, modern games are much more GPU-bound. Focus most of your research efforts and money there.
More generally, I like having a dual-core processor even for gaming, because there are background tasks running that I don't care to interrupt, like anti-virus and firewall software. These things definitely introduce occasional balkiness on a single core processor, but don't on a dual-core.
Don't forget to get some fans for your case. Ball-bearing ones will last longer and run quieter. Especially if you're going to run a pair of high end GPUs in SLI, you'll want case fans. Some GPUs exhaust their heat, but you'll still probably want at least one intake in the front.
July 13, 2006 12:35:15 AM

I'm with jtt on the Conroe Benchmarks, except I believe that the increase noted in preliminary benchmarks will not be as large. The FX-62 is not that much slower than the Conroe; but you have to remeber Conroe is 65nm while all AMD CPU's are 90nm. Intel beat AMD to the 65nm punch. I expect AMD 65nm's to close the gap and AMD FTW.

I like my fans like this, all being 120mm unless the case cannot allow it: One intake at the front, one exhaust at the back, one intake on the side, one exhaust on the top. This is a good thread to check out:

"Need good 120mm rear case fan"

I recommend the SilenX. It's 120mm pushes 70+ CFM at 14db.

~Ibrahim~
!