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CPU hotter after cleaning fan/heatsink

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July 13, 2006 8:31:41 AM

well my athlon64 3000+ has been slowly getting hotter over time so i thought maybe it's time for a clean.

be4 cleaning it run approx 25-30 idle and 45 load
after removing the fan and heatsink and cleaning(not fully just a bit) the temps are aprox 30 idle and 50-52 under full load.
I have the stock amd cooler and i dont have any thermal paste or anythin like that.

y hav the temps increased?

btw - dont recommend buying a new cooler coz it aint gonna happen!
July 13, 2006 8:33:13 AM

For gods sake, turn your computer off, buy some thermal paste, apply it correctly and then carry on.
July 13, 2006 8:38:50 AM

very constructive responce :( 

any1 else got ideas
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July 13, 2006 9:19:02 AM

I'm sorry, but your intial post indicated that you did not apply any thermal compound when you re-seated the heatsink and fan. This is dangerous to your CPU and motherboard, and you are lucky that it hasn't overheated and burned out.

If this is the case, the 'constructive' advice still stands.

If it isn't the case, be more specific with the detail of what you actually have done.

EDIT - I assume yuo actually considered other things first as well, like cleaning the case fans / vents and ensuring there is good circulation in the case? Otherwise it is like calling the fire brigade if the office is hot, and you haven't considered opening the windows...
July 13, 2006 9:35:58 AM

Right as the other post states YOU REALLY NEED TO GET SOME GOOD THERMAL PASTE ON THAT CPU......honestly a tube of arctic silver 5 will set you back all of £5 ($8?) and a VERY thin layer of that will do the trick on the cpu cap.

I seriosuly hope that you cleaned off the tim pad if there was one on the heatsink as replacing the heatsink with bits of an original one would really really hurt temps more than not having anything there (as I suspect it is now).

Please go get yourself some paste and apply it by putting a VERY small ammount in the centre of the cpu heatspreader and with CLEAN AND DRY hands smear it about with your index finger until you have a coated cpu. It really doesnt want to be too thickly applied (half a milimetre is plenty) and if needs be use a different finger to rub around and take some back off - MAKING DAMN SURE NOT TO SMEAR ANY OVER THE MOBO OR ANYTHING etc.

Ive been a pc tech for nearly 25yrs now and can honestly say that Arctic Silver is the best paste Ive used to date and is certainly cost effective as a small tube will do at least 20 cpu's. IT WILL REDUCE TEMPS by approx 3-5c and put you back to where you were or maybe lower by a degree or 2.

I must ask if there was any "goop" on the cpu or heatsink originally and what it looked like ?....

Please Please get some paste and sort it out - you wont kill the cpu quickly by not having it on but it will shorten its lifespan.
July 13, 2006 10:15:42 AM

thx for the reply
well as u can probly tell i am an idiot when it comes to cooling/thermal paste
i have never had to do this be4 and havn't used thermal paste be4(this will probly explain my idiocy)

there was a bit of "goop" or "crap" on the cpu (i dont think there was much on the heatsink)
I presume i have to clean this "goop" off the cpu be4 putting any paste right?

i will probly go get some thermal paste(the arctic silver if a nearby store sells it)
if i cant get the arctic silver any other cheap one will still be sufficient wont it?

around 50degrees is still a safe temperature though isnt it? a couple of degrees wont really affect cpu life will it? it is probly only full load around 1-2 hours a day anyway.
July 13, 2006 10:22:28 AM

Your CPU temps are acceptable. In particular, if your computer isn't crashing on a regular basis then it's not too hot, although the previous comment about high temps shortening your CPU's lifespan is correct. However, you are running risks by not having any thermal paste in there. Follow everyone's advice and apply thermal paste as directed, and while you've got the heatsink off make sure you get all the dust and crap out of it.
July 13, 2006 10:34:16 AM

Quote:
there was a bit of "goop" or "crap" on the cpu (i dont think there was much on the heatsink)
I presume i have to clean this "goop" off the cpu be4 putting any paste right?
Yes. Rubbing alcohol is good for removing old thermal paste. Make sure you get every spec of the old stuff off..don't even leave any smears. Then make sure it's completely dry, and lint-free before you apply the new paste. You won't need much.... a dab about the size of a grain of rice, and spread it all over the heatspreader(make sure you don't get any on any motherboard components), or anywhere at all except the CPU heatspreader and your finger. GL :) 
July 13, 2006 11:09:02 AM

A couple degrees wont really make that much difference no - but adding thermal paste - even cheapo white crap will make the cpu run about 5c cooler as I say - arctic is better again by a couple degrees.

YOU MUST GET IT ON RIGHT though as the prev poster said - none anywhere except the cpu cap (heatspreader) and a very thing layer - the grain of rice mentioned is perfect and then spread out as I said before.

Anyhow - we all start somewhere with toys and it sounds like you are on the road with your pc - so go get some goop, pref arctic silver 5, and start what I hope will be a good trend in your future pc builds or upgrades.

Once again though - be careful - take your time and be sure you know what you are about to do, then you wont make any silly mistakes. I will say though if you are at all worried about spreading it over your motherboard then get some cheapo white crap as that wont be electrically conductive and will only dry out or you can CAREFULLY wipe it off. Having said that - Arctic IS well worth it.

And no I dont work for Arctic either !>......(but they do make the best in cooling :wink:
July 13, 2006 11:23:45 AM

To be honest, if you're a beginner at this, I'd recommend getting cheap white generic thermal paste. Firstly, it's cheaper than Arctic Silver, so if you stuff it up the first time and have to try again, it doesn't get expensive. Secondly, it's not electrically conductive, so you can get it anywhere you want and it doesn't matter. Thirdly, your CPU is already running at OK temps even with no paste, so why spend more money on risky electrically conductive stuff that won't make a practical difference? I mean, if AS5 gets you 40C and standard white poo gets you 45C (and that's being really generous - practically speaking you don't get 5C just from different paste, unless you're doing something wrong), who cares? Either way it will work fine.

Also, my philosophy on thermal paste has always been: put craploads on. I use the standard non-conductive white goo you get with 3rd-party heatsinks, squeeze a big dog turd of the stuff on the CPU, spread it round and put the heatsink on. That way I can be sure that all spaces between the CPU and heatsink are properly filled, and who cares if some paste mushes out the sides? Some people think that doing this impedes performance because the layer of paste is too thick, increasing separation between the surfaces, but c'mon: with the amount of pressure you apply to modern CPU heatsinks when fitting them, ANY excess flows out of the gap immediately. Try it: put far too much paste on a CPU, mount the heatsink and then take it off - you'll see that any excess has been squashed out, leaving a perfectly thin, optimal coating on the CPU/heatsink surfaces.
July 13, 2006 12:03:21 PM

For my honest opinion, I don't see the difference in temp changes between AS5 or the reg White Thermal Compound.

I really can't tell the min difference in using it, sorry to say. Perhaps 1C at the most, in using stock HSF with AS5.

A tube of the white stuff for 6 bucks back at the time I brought it, lasted over 5 years, and I still have enough for another installation/application.

Athough with AS5, I suppose one advantage is that you do use less, and perhaps the tube is more control design in dispensing it to the core. I remember times I squished out too much of the white stuff by accident :oops: . So in turn that AS5 tube should last longer then the white stuff I brought a long time ago.
July 13, 2006 1:03:14 PM

I have to agree that there isnt much of a difference in temps BUT arctic silver will give another 1-2c cooling over white crap. It maybe a little more risky to apply but its worth it for LONG TERM usage as it doesnt dry out anywhere near as fast as white crap will - basically arctic will still be good after 2yrs at least with NO NEED TO REAPPLY whereas white goop tends to dry out fully within a year at most IF your cpu approaches 50c regularly.......

As to the poster who says put too much on - DONT.....it DOES make a thermally resistant build up and too much is FAR WORSE than none at all.

I will reiterate that you need only a VERY small layer to fill the microscopic defects between the cpu heatspreader and the heatsink base - unless you have a very bad heatsink it will be 99.9% flat as will the cpu cap - please do it right and you will be rewarded with the best results.

I would say that for the most part any difference recorded between goopings will be soley down to AMMOUNTS used and the thinner the layer the better - seriously.
July 13, 2006 1:38:04 PM

I'm pretty sure that you'll find arctic silver is only electrically conductive under high pressure. :) 
July 13, 2006 1:51:00 PM

Quote:
As to the poster who says put too much on - DONT.....it DOES make a thermally resistant build up and too much is FAR WORSE than none at all.

I will reiterate that you need only a VERY small layer to fill the microscopic defects between the cpu heatspreader and the heatsink base - unless you have a very bad heatsink it will be 99.9% flat as will the cpu cap - please do it right and you will be rewarded with the best results.

I would say that for the most part any difference recorded between goopings will be soley down to AMMOUNTS used and the thinner the layer the better - seriously.


Well, I know this is a widely-held opinion and of course I know that a thick layer of paste doesn't conduct as well as a thin one, but I still reckon it makes little to no difference simply because regardless of how much paste you put on a CPU, it will be reduced to the thinnest possible layer by the pressure of the heatsink retention mechanism. I've never tested this scientifically but I have built many, many computers, including seriously toasty hardware like a T-Bird 1400 overclocked to 1680, or my current box, a X2 4400+ OC'd to 2.6 GHz, and the "craploads of goo" approach has always worked flawlessly for me.
July 13, 2006 2:13:14 PM

buy the thermal paste called arctic silver5 and remove the grey stuff from the bottom of heatsink.once you remove the heatsink after it has been on a processor,the grey stuff is no longer any good.so clean it off and apply the AS5,and that should fix your heat issue.good luck.

Dahak

EVGA NF4SLI BOARD
X2 4400+@2.4
520WATT PSU
7800GT@490/1.07
WD300GIG HD
EXTREME 19IN.MONITOR
July 13, 2006 2:18:40 PM

I dont think thermal paste is going to drop it by 10c. You may also want to make sure your cooler is properly mounted.
a c 123 à CPUs
July 13, 2006 2:28:22 PM

Quote:

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apply it by putting a VERY small ammount in the centre of the cpu heatspreader and with CLEAN AND DRY hands smear it about with your index finger...
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Ive been a pc tech for nearly 25yrs now...
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Hmmm, then you ought to know NOT to use a bare finger (even a clean one); put it in a plastic bag, as for best results you don't want finger-oils preventing the thermal compound from filling the cracks.
July 13, 2006 2:29:03 PM

Quote:
As to the poster who says put too much on - DONT.....it DOES make a thermally resistant build up and too much is FAR WORSE than none at all.

I will reiterate that you need only a VERY small layer to fill the microscopic defects between the cpu heatspreader and the heatsink base - unless you have a very bad heatsink it will be 99.9% flat as will the cpu cap - please do it right and you will be rewarded with the best results.

I would say that for the most part any difference recorded between goopings will be soley down to AMMOUNTS used and the thinner the layer the better - seriously.


Well, I know this is a widely-held opinion and of course I know that a thick layer of paste doesn't conduct as well as a thin one, but I still reckon it makes little to no difference simply because regardless of how much paste you put on a CPU, it will be reduced to the thinnest possible layer by the pressure of the heatsink retention mechanism. I've never tested this scientifically but I have built many, many computers, including seriously toasty hardware like a T-Bird 1400 overclocked to 1680, or my current box, a X2 4400+ OC'd to 2.6 GHz, and the "craploads of goo" approach has always worked flawlessly for me.


then enjoy the cpu heat as ytou always do.it is highly recommended in all the books i've read and all the advice i've gotten over the years that too much grease can be more damaging in the long run than none because it transfers the heat to other parts of the cpu that may not need it.and it's bloddy messy.goodluck.

Dahak

EVGA NF4SLI BOARD
X2 4400+@2.4
520WATT PSU
7800GT@490/1.07
WD300GIG HD
EXTREME 19IN.MONITOR
July 13, 2006 3:24:10 PM

Quote:
I dont think thermal paste is going to drop it by 10c. You may also want to make sure your cooler is properly mounted.


I've seen it drop 10C by switching an old thermal pad with thin layer of AS5. I always recommend a thin layer of paste. If a thick layer of paste could cause a negative effect, then why do it? If anyone finds it hard to apply a thin layer of paste, use the old credit card trick. Put a small dab of paste on the die or heat spreader, use a credit card to spread the paste, and ditch any excess build up.
July 13, 2006 3:25:39 PM

Quote:
For gods sake, turn your computer off, buy some thermal paste, apply it correctly and then carry on.


WOW I agree!!!!!!!!!!!
July 13, 2006 3:43:05 PM

Quote:

apply it by putting a VERY small ammount in the centre of the cpu heatspreader and with CLEAN AND DRY hands smear it about with your index finger...

Ive been a pc tech for nearly 25yrs now...



Hmmm, then you ought to know NOT to use a bare finger (even a clean one); put it in a plastic bag, as for best results you don't want finger-oils preventing the thermal compound from filling the cracks.


AMEN! Use the plastic bag! And it's not too good for your skin. :roll:
July 13, 2006 3:47:56 PM

Quote:

.
.
.
apply it by putting a VERY small ammount in the centre of the cpu heatspreader and with CLEAN AND DRY hands smear it about with your index finger...
.
.
.
Ive been a pc tech for nearly 25yrs now...
.
.
.


Hmmm, then you ought to know NOT to use a bare finger (even a clean one); put it in a plastic bag, as for best results you don't want finger-oils preventing the thermal compound from filling the cracks.

The best advice in this thread!
Another bit of advice is to NOT use common rubbing alcohol to clean the cpu and heat sink base. Use pure isopropyl alcohol (at least 90%) to avoid leaving a residue. A final note:

Some mis-guided souls recommend using WD-40 to clean off old thermal paste. Don't! This is a real no-no as it leaves an oily film.
July 13, 2006 3:52:58 PM

Quote:

.
.
.
apply it by putting a VERY small ammount in the centre of the cpu heatspreader and with CLEAN AND DRY hands smear it about with your index finger...
.
.
.
Ive been a pc tech for nearly 25yrs now...
.
.
.


Hmmm, then you ought to know NOT to use a bare finger (even a clean one); put it in a plastic bag, as for best results you don't want finger-oils preventing the thermal compound from filling the cracks.

The best advice in this thread!
Another bit of advice is to NOT use common rubbing alcohol to clean the cpu and heat sink base. Use pure isopropyl alcohol (at least 90%) to avoid leaving a residue. A final note:

Some mis-guided souls recommend using WD-40 to clean off old thermal paste. Don't! This is a real no-no as it leaves an oily film.Yes, i said rubbing alcohol, but i meant isopropyl...That's what i use, but i think mine's only 70%. Dollar store variety. :wink:
July 13, 2006 3:54:04 PM

bust out your wallet, buy a zalman, put some paste on that shit and make sure you seat it correctly.
July 13, 2006 4:57:56 PM

Quote:
As to the poster who says put too much on - DONT.....it DOES make a thermally resistant build up and too much is FAR WORSE than none at all.

I will reiterate that you need only a VERY small layer to fill the microscopic defects between the cpu heatspreader and the heatsink base - unless you have a very bad heatsink it will be 99.9% flat as will the cpu cap - please do it right and you will be rewarded with the best results.

I would say that for the most part any difference recorded between goopings will be soley down to AMMOUNTS used and the thinner the layer the better - seriously.


Well, I know this is a widely-held opinion and of course I know that a thick layer of paste doesn't conduct as well as a thin one, but I still reckon it makes little to no difference simply because regardless of how much paste you put on a CPU, it will be reduced to the thinnest possible layer by the pressure of the heatsink retention mechanism. I've never tested this scientifically but I have built many, many computers, including seriously toasty hardware like a T-Bird 1400 overclocked to 1680, or my current box, a X2 4400+ OC'd to 2.6 GHz, and the "craploads of goo" approach has always worked flawlessly for me.

I agree. I'm not sure I'd subscript to the craploads of goo theory because it makes a huge mess, but I certainly don't agree with the too much is a disaster theory either. :wink:

I put this into the same catagory of hyteria and paranoia as power supply misinformation, and a few other generally accepted yet totally misunderstood ideas about computers that are floating around the internet.
July 13, 2006 8:12:22 PM

Yes Yes I know about finger oils and the like - but I did say CLEAN hands !>......nonetheless you are quite right and a credit card style spreader or sandwich bags are my personal choice - I was just illustrating a point about spreading it out and with fingers you can remove excess goop easily enough. As for it not being good for your hands - well you can rewash them afterwards, but you do know that silver can make your hands softer !!>!>!>!!>>!..... :lol: 
July 14, 2006 6:03:09 AM

thx for the advice every1
well i will go get some thermal paste sometimes this week
i found a store with the as5 which sells for $20!(quite alot 4 fancy toothpaste)
they also have the thermaltake 12g paste for $10
does any1 have an opinion on this paste?

as for the heatsink with the thermal pad underneath does that have to be taken off completely or just cleaned?
can i clean the cpu without alcohol or other stuf similar?
if when i put the heatsink on and paste oozes out the side is this bad for the cpu or anythin?

i will put a tiny thin layer of paste and not flood it with paste and drown the cpu like som1 sugested.
July 14, 2006 6:27:02 AM

Hi again - small ammount and yes really you need to totally remove any old crap on the heatsink and cpu heatspreader - you should almost get a mirror finish on the heatsink base (unless alloy but VERY clean nonetheless). The cpu cap should be clean also and then you go with your very small ammount of goop. The arctic is the best stuff you can buy bar none - but - so long as the thermaltake stuff isnt REALLY thick or runny as then itll be fine for your needs, plus a 12g tube will last you about 150 cpu's !>......

As for the cleaning side - you can get away without using any chemicals - just some kitchen roll will take off any previous crap - unless its welded on there that is - maybe a EVER SO SLIGHTLY damp piece to clean off.......again you have got to be carefull with liquids around pc's etc but that is common sense isnt it. My fav quick method (which I bet I get slammed for but it works fine !) is to touch a piece of kitchen roll to the sink after running water to get a tiny ammount of water from droplets left - then double over the kitchen paper to make a very slightly damp bit - then use that on the cpu core and another clean piece on the heatsink. So long as you remember that it needs to only be a tiny bit damp and not wet to the touch you will be fine and normal air temp will evaporate anything left on.

Anyway back to the point - to be perfectly honest even white goop will be fine if you dont intend on overclocking or anything - but the key to a good heatsink fit is to make sure everything is squeeky clean - and then a VERY VERY small ammount of goop applied to the cpu - then the heatsink fitted back as normal. Another (less safe) point of mine is to wiggle the heatsink once fitted to kinda spread out the goop under it a little more evenly - I know the pressure will do most of the job and then heat combined with the pressure will finish it off over time - but hey - so long as you dont snap the heatsink and retention mechanism off the board your good to go !.

As for the goop squeezing out the sides, you have to realise that you are making up for minute imperfections in the cpu heatspreader and heatsink base - were talking smaller grooves than a very fine hair at the absolute most here - not craters that need cementing !, this is why the small ammount is needed - literally a wafer thin coating on the cpu starting with, as suggested, a rice grain size - then spread out.......to say once more be carefull and dont make a mess !.......

Good luck and let us know the outcome - esp temps etc....
July 14, 2006 7:07:47 AM

Sorry to hijack the thread, but, do you need to apply thermal paste if for instance you don't want to use the stock heatsink/fan when you do a new build? I ask because i'm going to be doing a conroe build pretty soon, and ideally i would like to get a zalman hsf.

I have to admit the idea of having to apply thermal paste on a processor when having never done a build before sounds kind of tricky.
July 14, 2006 7:13:35 AM

Quote:
Sorry to hijack the thread, but, do you need to apply thermal paste if for instance you don't want to use the stock heatsink/fan when you do a new build? I ask because i'm going to be doing a conroe build pretty soon, and ideally i would like to get a zalman hsf.

I have to admit the idea of having to apply thermal paste on a processor when having never done a build before sounds kind of tricky.
Yes, you must apply thermal paste to any and all CPU heatsinks.
July 14, 2006 7:14:53 AM

thx again for reply
i will probly get this paste - Coolermaster PTK-002 PREMIUM THERMAL PASTE
any opinions on it?
it is around a third the price of the as5

when i put the paste on should i not go all the way 2 the edges to allow for oozing?
July 14, 2006 7:19:44 AM

Quote:
thx again for reply
i will probly get this paste - Coolermaster PTK-002 PREMIUM THERMAL PASTE
any opinions on it?
it is around a third the price of the as5

when i put the paste on should i not go all the way 2 the edges to allow for oozing?
Go right to the edges, and if you haven't overapplied it, there won't be much oozing, or none to speak of.
July 14, 2006 9:36:54 PM

Most RETAIL cpu's come with heatsinks that have a TIM (thermal interface material) pad attached or a small square of preapplied paste. This is absolutly fine to use once but if you take off your heatsink as the original poster has done then you will have to completly clean the old tim / goop off and use some good paste and we have all been saying.

If you get an OEM cpu however it will be the core only and no heatsink - BUT - some new heatsinks come with a preapplied square of paste anyway (akasa spring to mind). Most however will be a nice shiny base waiting for you to have to use some paste yourself in the way already suggested about 50 times in this thread.

Above all dont be worried about doing it - its really not a difficult thing to do and short of emptying a whole tube of it over your entire motherboard you should be fine.
July 15, 2006 2:24:12 AM

well im not gonna get the as5 or the other 12g thermaltake 1 as mentioned be4
i will be gettin this probly:
Coolermaster PTK-002 PREMIUM THERMAL PASTE
idk how much grams it is. if any one does plz comment
i only need it to do 1 cpu now and ill probly only use it every year or 2 after this.

also can i clean the other goop off without a certain type of alcohol or mineral spirits. can i just use a damp cloth or something?

also what is the most affective way of cleaning the hsf? compressed air? do i have to take the fan off the hs for best results?
thx in advance
July 15, 2006 2:39:19 AM

Does anyone read the Instructions?

Step 6 is VERY important for optimal use. In fact, prepare both surfaces up to step 6!
July 15, 2006 2:52:18 AM

Quote:


also can i clean the other goop off without a certain type of alcohol or meth spirits. can i just use a damp cloth or something?

also what is the most affective way of cleaning the hsf? compressed air? do i have to take the fan off the hs for best results?
thx in advance


The whole point is not to leave any residue. No household cleaner or water can do that. Isopropyl alcohol is extremely cheap and readily available in any drug store or anywhere first aid supplies are sold. The Arctic Silver guys recommend acetone (nail polish remover) as a substitute but don't go with a used bottle! It's probably contaminated with nail polish!! You'd wind up with acrylic in the interface.. not good 8O

As to your second question, you only have to clean the mating surfaces between the heatsink and cpu so no, do not remove the fan from the heatsink unless you need to cleen gobs of dust out of the heatsink's fins sometime in the future
July 15, 2006 8:55:52 AM

ok
some reviews i have seen say to put the paste on the heatsink not the cpu heatspreader?
is it best to put on the heatsink or the cpu heatspreader?

does the thermal pad have 2 be peeled off or does it just come off with the alcohol?

i dont have any isoprpyl alcohol. will normal alcohol work well?

lots of questions i know but i dont wanna stuf up
i think this is all i need 2 know now.
!