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X2 or Opteron?

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July 17, 2006 4:31:15 AM

I'm interested in building a high quailty audio machine for my music production. While, Core 2, is nice option....I still have faith that the AM2 chips using the 65nm will prove to be just as good if not better. Now why would I pay $2000 for the AMD opteron, when the X2 FX-62 is half the price. Now I mentioned AM2 because I'm interested in going with an AM2 motherboard which will allow me to newer X2s built at 65nm. Still, whats the big difference from the Opteron & X2? I love AMD chips, what can I say.

More about : opteron

July 17, 2006 5:38:07 AM

From what I have read on the Opteron 939 chips they are the same thing as the X2 almost. Pretty much come off the same line but use the better quality ships as Opterons.

I'm not even sure they even make AM2 Opterons yet do they??
July 17, 2006 6:04:49 AM

If i remember correctly, Opterons will have a different socket (socket F ?)

I don't think they are making any AM2 Optys

Fritz
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July 17, 2006 6:16:35 AM

actually i think an am2 opty is coming out not to soon though
inquirer said something bout it
July 17, 2006 7:45:04 AM

Did you say ?
Quote:
...inquirer...


disclaimer: maybe true, but I didn't think so...
July 17, 2006 8:02:16 AM

Quote:
actually i think an am2 opty is coming out not to soon though
inquirer said something bout it


They also said Reverse Hyperthreading was going to be introduced by AMD...
July 17, 2006 8:49:04 AM

I have the same quastion guys,
I have a 939 Mobo, Asus A8N SLI, I want to go dule core, should I get 4800 X2 or Opetron 180? And Why?
July 17, 2006 9:50:19 AM

Quote:
I'm interested in building a high quailty audio machine for my music production. While, Core 2, is nice option....I still have faith that the AM2 chips using the 65nm will prove to be just as good if not better. Now why would I pay $2000 for the AMD opteron, when the X2 FX-62 is half the price. Now I mentioned AM2 because I'm interested in going with an AM2 motherboard which will allow me to newer X2s built at 65nm. Still, whats the big difference from the Opteron & X2? I love AMD chips, what can I say.


Well, if that is the case then you won't be building the machine now will you? AM2 at 65nm could be anywhere from 3 months off to a year say some. Also, reports do not show a significant challange to Core 2 yet.

The way I see your options are like this:

1) Wait until Core 2 hits the market and AMD slashes prices radicaly across the board, then an inferior (althoug certaintly not bad) chip like the 4400+ or similar may be of use if you are going to be using multithreaded aps or doing a lot of multitasking.

2) Wait until Core 2 is released and buy one! Look at the huge amount of benchmarks showing the E6600 be all amazing for such a low price compared to what you get. You could have your high quality audio machine within two weeks - blowing just about everything on the market away.

3) Wait for an unknown period of time until AMD produces something competitive to take on Core 2. Just how badly do you want this machine? Sure in 3 months AMD may totaly surprise everyone and release a killer CPU at competitive prices, utilising the AM2 platform and its increased bandwidth potential.

I really see either choice 1 or 2 to be viable, no mention of Opteron at all. 6 months ago, I would have disagreed with myself, as Opty is a quality processor, but I dont think they are in AM2 form yet, and the San Diego 2.4GHz is going to get a good beating from an E6600 (which is currently about half the price, roughly). So that is not a way foward for you I dont think.

My friend works in a highly successful audio production company (no, really), and from the things he has said, they have quad core Xeon servers (d'oh, but they got them cheap) but only single core workstation machines where the actual audio processing occurs. Audio isn't video (lol - sorry), it's not that intensive and if you do really want the best on the market for it, then unforunately that won't be AMD for the near future, including Opty, X2 and FX.

To conclude my unqualified oppinion/advice, after potential massive price drops, an X2 at a low price could be a really good buy, otherwise Core 2 all the way.

Maxtoons, what about an Opteron UP 144 at 1.8GHz and seriously overclock it? I post this without checking to see if your motherboard supports good overclocking features or not (I think your board is sound though). Otherwise, this chip is seriously cheap and potentialy massive value.
July 18, 2006 10:30:14 AM

the performances are almost the same between Dual Core Opteron and X2 when they are at the same frequency
July 18, 2006 11:39:33 AM

Quote:
the performances are almost the same between Dual Core Opteron and X2 when they are at the same frequency


If you are comparing Toledo/Denmark core processors (X2 4400/Opteron 175 or X2 4800/ Opteron 180) performance will be exactly the same. They are the same processors. My Opteron 175 is a Toledo.

When you consider these processors, you are restricted to socket 939. There aren't any AM2 processors (maybe a scant few remaining) with 1MB L2 cache per core except for the FX-62. All X2 processors for AM2 now have only 512KB per core. Opterons won't work with socket AM2.

Note also that Opterons cost more than X2s. People buy them either for professional use or for overclocking. These people will defend their purchases howeer, the X2 is the better buy. This will be even moreso when the announced price cuts take effect on or about July 24th.
July 18, 2006 11:39:53 AM

No personal experience with the 180, but Opterons OC much better. I run my 170 at 260*10 every minute of every day, 100% load (I run Fold@Home x 2, 1 instance per core)... That being said, among my peers at another site, mine is a more mild Opty OC (mobo holding me back a bit). Many of them run theirs at 280-310 x 9 or 10. Oh, I should also mention that I don't watercool or anything special - just a Zalman CPNS 9500 HSF

Edit - also, Opty/X2 are from the the same batches, but the Optys are the better quality binned chips. They ARE meant for servers, which means never shutting down and running full loads all the time.
July 18, 2006 6:28:03 PM

Quote:
Audio isn't video (lol - sorry), it's not that intensive.


Exactly. Core 2 or X2 will be the same for you. It's the motherboard that matters more. You might want a workstation/server motherboard and a Opteron/Xeon CPU if you have plenty of audio cards and hard drives. The downsides being the cost and extra noise.
July 18, 2006 9:15:01 PM

yes, audio isn't as intensive. But, when your running 15 - 20 instruments and 3 - 4 plugins per instrument you'll need processor power. The Core 2 would kill in this situation, but so would the X2. Core just does it better. But, the performance rate for the X2 in this situation isn't bad by any stretch and would perfect be if I'm trying to save money, but get great performance. The AM2 platforms would allow me to upgrade to the newer 65nm chips, which I would presume would be badass in their own right.

My question isn't about Core 2 vs X2 though,....its X2 vs Opteron. Why would anyone pay $2000 for an Opteron, when you can get the same performance from the X2 at half the cost. Not to mention that once the Core 2 comes out, the AMD family will lower prices and the X2 would be even more attractive.
July 18, 2006 9:24:56 PM

Destro, I think you answered your own question really. There is no point in building your system based around Opteron for what you are doing, it makes no sense. X2 will do a great job for what you want, and with these price cuts is darn attractive. I mean an AM2 3800+ for £110? That's just screaming to be bought.

The general advice that crept in was, get whats best now, not what may be best in the future. Let's not forget, AMD's general experties has been in gaming platforms and CPU's, not raw processing power. I would still nudge you towards an E6600 but if you go down the X2 route, you wont be dissapointed either.

Good luck with whatever your new system is, and when you are done, let people know how it goes, it'll be interesting from a sound enthusiasts point of view :) 
July 18, 2006 11:55:20 PM

Well the Optys can pretty much go blow for blow with the Big Boys from the FX line when theyre overclocked, Here is a good Review about the Opteron which I read Recently: Cheers
July 18, 2006 11:56:39 PM

Quote:
Destro, I think you answered your own question really. There is no point in building your system based around Opteron for what you are doing, it makes no sense. X2 will do a great job for what you want, and with these price cuts is darn attractive. I mean an AM2 3800+ for £110? That's just screaming to be bought.

The general advice that crept in was, get whats best now, not what may be best in the future. Let's not forget, AMD's general experties has been in gaming platforms and CPU's, not raw processing power. I would still nudge you towards an E6600 but if you go down the X2 route, you wont be dissapointed either.

Good luck with whatever your new system is, and when you are done, let people know how it goes, it'll be interesting from a sound enthusiasts point of view :) 


Thats pretty much what needs to be said. :lol: 
July 19, 2006 1:03:19 AM

Thanks DaBigHurt
Great Review :wink:
July 19, 2006 1:14:00 AM

Quote:
I'm interested in building a high quailty audio machine for my music production. While, Core 2, is nice option....I still have faith that the AM2 chips using the 65nm will prove to be just as good if not better. Now why would I pay $2000 for the AMD opteron, when the X2 FX-62 is half the price. Now I mentioned AM2 because I'm interested in going with an AM2 motherboard which will allow me to newer X2s built at 65nm. Still, whats the big difference from the Opteron & X2? I love AMD chips, what can I say.


The first and biggest difference is that Opterons have more HT links to communicate with the second, etc proc.
Second is that Opterons use ECC RAM (read:more expensive).

Other than that Opterons undergo a more strenuous validation process. I have a 3200+ inmy studio and I can record 8 16 bit 96K tracks simultaneously without breaking a sweat in Sonar.

A dual core would allow you to allow at least 10 filters in real time. An FX 62 would allow the filters at 24 bit 96K DVD-Audio quality.

I'd actualy thik about the 5000+ since its a lot less and provides a good experience. O focurse for the ultimate in AM2 power you need the FX, but 5000+ is hard to look by. I have a 4400+ in the PC I'm writing this with and the 5000+ doesn't even look back at it.
July 19, 2006 3:22:45 AM

Quote:

The first and biggest difference is that Opterons have more HT links to communicate with the second, etc proc.
Second is that Opterons use ECC RAM (read:more expensive).

Other than that Opterons undergo a more strenuous validation process. I have a 3200+ inmy studio and I can record 8 16 bit 96K tracks simultaneously without breaking a sweat in Sonar.


I suspect that the question is in regard to the socket 939 Opterons. These use but a single HT link as they are single processor (though these can be dual core). They also use unregistered non-ECC DDR memory. The more rigorous testing is a definite fact though neither Opteron nor X2 would be sold if it failed any of their respective tests.
July 19, 2006 7:45:55 AM

Quote:
yWhy would anyone pay $2000 for an Opteron, when you can get the same performance from the X2 at half the cost.


A dual Opteron 275 system can't be matched by any X2 or Core 2 Duo system. But again, it all depends if your app can use 4 threads simultaneously. If not, stick with consumer X2 / Conroe.

When you talk about workstations - $2k is disposable Kleenex money.
July 19, 2006 8:30:53 AM

So, just to cleat things here, the 939 Opetrons use unregistared RAM's right? So I will be able to use my DDR400 that I am using with my 939 4000+ Athalon 64, right?
It makes sence as I know my Asus A8n can handel the 939 Opteron.
July 19, 2006 11:00:37 AM

Quote:
So, just to cleat things here, the 939 Opetrons use unregistared RAM's right? So I will be able to use my DDR400 that I am using with my 939 4000+ Athalon 64, right?
It makes sence as I know my Asus A8n can handel the 939 Opteron.

Correct. The Opteron Socket 939 Dual Core processors begin with the 165 (1.8GHz) all the way up to the 185 (2.6GHz). Note also that these Optys won't be part of the price cuts that will take place around the 23rd of this month. Very significant price cuts in fact!
July 19, 2006 1:03:09 PM

Quote:
So, just to cleat things here, the 939 Opetrons use unregistared RAM's right? So I will be able to use my DDR400 that I am using with my 939 4000+ Athalon 64, right?
It makes sence as I know my Asus A8n can handel the 939 Opteron.

Correct. The Opteron Socket 939 Dual Core processors begin with the 165 (1.8GHz) all the way up to the 185 (2.6GHz). Note also that these Optys won't be part of the price cuts that will take place around the 23rd of this month. Very significant price cuts in fact!
NO WAY, They Will not be in the price cut????? :cry: 
It does not make sence to find the 4800 X2 for about $300, and the Opetron 180 for $650 :?
July 19, 2006 1:11:16 PM

Quote:
So, just to cleat things here, the 939 Opetrons use unregistared RAM's right? So I will be able to use my DDR400 that I am using with my 939 4000+ Athalon 64, right?
It makes sence as I know my Asus A8n can handel the 939 Opteron.

Correct. The Opteron Socket 939 Dual Core processors begin with the 165 (1.8GHz) all the way up to the 185 (2.6GHz). Note also that these Optys won't be part of the price cuts that will take place around the 23rd of this month. Very significant price cuts in fact!
NO WAY, They Will not be in the price cut????? :cry: 
It does not make sence to find the 4800 X2 for about $300, and the Opetron 180 for $650 :?
None of the 1MB L2 cache procs are making the price cuts. They are, in fact, being discontinued. No more Toledo core (or the AM2 equivalent) at all. Only the Manchester/AM2 equivalent are being cut. See this for more information.
July 19, 2006 11:01:55 PM

Quote:
So, just to cleat things here, the 939 Opetrons use unregistared RAM's right? So I will be able to use my DDR400 that I am using with my 939 4000+ Athalon 64, right?
It makes sence as I know my Asus A8n can handel the 939 Opteron.

Correct. The Opteron Socket 939 Dual Core processors begin with the 165 (1.8GHz) all the way up to the 185 (2.6GHz). Note also that these Optys won't be part of the price cuts that will take place around the 23rd of this month. Very significant price cuts in fact!
NO WAY, They Will not be in the price cut????? :cry: 
It does not make sence to find the 4800 X2 for about $300, and the Opetron 180 for $650 :?
None of the 1MB L2 cache procs are making the price cuts. They are, in fact, being discontinued. No more Toledo core (or the AM2 equivalent) at all. Only the Manchester/AM2 equivalent are being cut. See this for more information.
So the Fastest 939 will be the 4600 x2? :cry: 
July 20, 2006 1:49:13 AM

Quote:
So, just to cleat things here, the 939 Opetrons use unregistared RAM's right? So I will be able to use my DDR400 that I am using with my 939 4000+ Athalon 64, right?
It makes sence as I know my Asus A8n can handel the 939 Opteron.

Correct. The Opteron Socket 939 Dual Core processors begin with the 165 (1.8GHz) all the way up to the 185 (2.6GHz). Note also that these Optys won't be part of the price cuts that will take place around the 23rd of this month. Very significant price cuts in fact!
NO WAY, They Will not be in the price cut????? :cry: 
It does not make sence to find the 4800 X2 for about $300, and the Opetron 180 for $650 :?
None of the 1MB L2 cache procs are making the price cuts. They are, in fact, being discontinued. No more Toledo core (or the AM2 equivalent) at all. Only the Manchester/AM2 equivalent are being cut. See this for more information.
So the Fastest 939 will be the 4600 x2? :cry: 

The fastest 939 at a really nice price will be the 4600 yes. Price is supposed to drop from around $550USD to $224USD. While I don't know what you're using now, make no mistake, the 4600 is a very fast and capable processor! My main machine runs an Opteron 175, which is essentially an X2 4400 and that machine rocks! I'm writing this on my toy, an X2 3800. Come the price drops, I will upgrade this machine to a 4600 and it should be a very nice upgrade. These processors scale very nicely and as clocks increase, so does performance. There just isn't a bad AMD dual core. Conroe is going to prove the same way. It really is a matter of how much power does one really need? My Opty, for me, is handily "fast enough"... for me.
July 20, 2006 3:37:35 AM

That does totally suck that AMD is abandoning 939 users so abruptly...
Yet you are to believe that AM2 offers a better upgrade path than Conroe? :?
Seems to me they are trying to mask the fact that a Conroe today is probably as fast or faster than AM2 platform will ever reach using a single dual core chip.
Yet Conroe will release considerably faster processors in the FUTURE...
and that seems more futureproof having the best power and speed today, and tomorrow.
July 20, 2006 3:56:43 AM

Quote:
That does totally suck that AMD is abandoning 939 users so abruptly...
Yet you are to believe that AM2 offers a better upgrade path than Conroe? :?
Seems to me they are trying to mask the fact that a Conroe today is probably as fast or faster than AM2 platform will ever reach using a single dual core chip.
Yet Conroe will release considerably faster processors in the FUTURE...
and that seems more futureproof having the best power and speed today, and tomorrow.

AM2 isn't really designed to compete with Conroe. It is merely basic groundwork for future more sophisticated processors, starting with the use of DDR2. Conroe is a good bit faster. But how fast is fast enough? Like I've said before... my investment is with 939. I'm not going to change now. My Opteron is certainly as fast as I need it to be. When I upgrade my 3800 to a 4600, for me, that will be faster than I need it to be. But my investment is already in place. When my needs exceed the capabilities of my computers and I need to consider a new build, then I'll look to see what meets my needs.

Buy whatever you want as long as it meets your needs. Use whatever you get to the fullest. Nothing complicated about it at all.
July 20, 2006 4:39:30 AM

Well I would like many others like to have the availability of processors for 939 motherboards still selling. I have 2 of em, one a 7 months ago, the other a year ago and would like them to release a 939 X2-5200 ;) , but at least keep making 939 X2-4800/Opteron 180's for another year or so, even if in reduced quantity and at old prices if they must.
!