Canon IP5000 or IP8500?

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Since I'm testing the iP5000 -- and reading up on the later models -- I'm
thinking: maybe I should get the iP8500? Is it the top of the line Pixma?

Is it better than the iP5000? If so, in what way, or in which specific
areas? Worth getting instead of the iP5000? Any downsides?

Many thanks for your input
Sarah
53 answers Last reply
More about canon ip5000 ip8500
  1. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    Sarah Feliz wrote:

    >Since I'm testing the iP5000 -- and reading up on the later models -- I'm
    >thinking: maybe I should get the iP8500? Is it the top of the line Pixma?
    >
    >
    Yes for narrow carriage. It has the same print engine as the wide
    format i9900. These two printers are the flagship of the Canon line.

    >Is it better than the iP5000?
    >
    Better for photos. It is a pure photo printer. The IP5000 would be
    better for non-photo work.

    >If so, in what way, or in which specific
    >areas? Worth getting instead of the iP5000? Any downsides?
    >
    >

    Like a higher powered car you will burn more ink. There are 2
    additional light load inks. Since there is not a pigmented black ink
    the printer will mix its own black when required using up individual colors.

    >Many thanks for your input
    >Sarah
    >
    >
    >
  2. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    Since I do not have the IP 8500 I can not speak with great authority - I am
    using a Canon i960 (six color printer) which, in my estimation, makes
    beautiful prints. If the IP 8500 is like other 8 color printers in the
    Canon line it does have dye-based black and does not have to mix colors to
    create black. My six color printer has black, yellow, cyan, photo cyan
    (less dye load), magenta, and photo magenta. The eight color printers add
    red and green, reputed to create more vivid red and green on your prints. I
    would venture a guess that all inkjet printers, when printing black, use
    mostly ink from the black tank, but there is probably a trace of some colors
    used as well.

    "measekite" <measekite@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    news:rjzge.15581$J12.14068@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com...
    >
    >
    > Sarah Feliz wrote:
    >
    >>Since I'm testing the iP5000 -- and reading up on the later models -- I'm
    >>thinking: maybe I should get the iP8500? Is it the top of the line Pixma?
    >>
    > Yes for narrow carriage. It has the same print engine as the wide format
    > i9900. These two printers are the flagship of the Canon line.
    >
    >>Is it better than the iP5000?
    > Better for photos. It is a pure photo printer. The IP5000 would be
    > better for non-photo work.
    >
    >>If so, in what way, or in which specific
    >>areas? Worth getting instead of the iP5000? Any downsides?
    >>
    >
    > Like a higher powered car you will burn more ink. There are 2 additional
    > light load inks. Since there is not a pigmented black ink the printer
    > will mix its own black when required using up individual colors.
    >
    >>Many thanks for your input
    >>Sarah
    >>
    >>
  3. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    All I can say Sarah is that I have recently purchased the iP 8500 printer.
    It is a superb printer. I frequently print A4 size landscape photographs
    from my digital camera and scanned 35mm slides. The resulting A4 prints are
    better than what you would get from quickie type film printing services. It
    paid for itself from developing all our relative's digital photos from our
    daughter's recent wedding. You will have no regrets purchasing the iP 8500.

    P.S. Be careful buying non canon ink refills. I did that and the results
    were aweful. I isolated the problem down to the photo cyan and photo
    magnenta non canon ink cartridges.

    Hope this helps you in your choice.

    Cheers

    Ron from Downunder.

    "Sarah Feliz" <sfeliz@nada.com> wrote in message
    news:BEA7B140.32D4%sfeliz@nada.com...
    > Since I'm testing the iP5000 -- and reading up on the later models -- I'm
    > thinking: maybe I should get the iP8500? Is it the top of the line Pixma?
    >
    > Is it better than the iP5000? If so, in what way, or in which specific
    > areas? Worth getting instead of the iP5000? Any downsides?
    >
    > Many thanks for your input
    > Sarah
    >
  4. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    wazzad wrote:

    >All I can say Sarah is that I have recently purchased the iP 8500 printer.
    >It is a superb printer. I frequently print A4 size landscape photographs
    >from my digital camera and scanned 35mm slides. The resulting A4 prints are
    >better than what you would get from quickie type film printing services. It
    >paid for itself from developing all our relative's digital photos from our
    >daughter's recent wedding. You will have no regrets purchasing the iP 8500.
    >
    >P.S. Be careful buying non canon ink refills. I did that and the results
    >were aweful. I isolated the problem down to the photo cyan and photo
    >magnenta non canon ink cartridges.
    >
    >

    Where did you get the bad aftermarket ink from?

    >Hope this helps you in your choice.
    >
    >Cheers
    >
    >Ron from Downunder.
    >
    >"Sarah Feliz" <sfeliz@nada.com> wrote in message
    >news:BEA7B140.32D4%sfeliz@nada.com...
    >
    >
    >>Since I'm testing the iP5000 -- and reading up on the later models -- I'm
    >>thinking: maybe I should get the iP8500? Is it the top of the line Pixma?
    >>
    >>Is it better than the iP5000? If so, in what way, or in which specific
    >>areas? Worth getting instead of the iP5000? Any downsides?
    >>
    >>Many thanks for your input
    >>Sarah
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >
    >
    >
    >
  5. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    Measekite I purchased my ink refill cartridges from one of the supposedly
    better ink cartridge refiller franchise stores. My bad experience with the
    colour reproduction was enough to make me dip into my pockets for the
    genuine canon ink cartridges and throw the ink refill cartridges in the bin,
    where they belonged. Over here in Australia there are many ink refillers,
    but my experiences have not been any good with any of them. Hope this helps.

    Cheers mate

    Ron from Downunder.


    "measekite" <measekite@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    news:tuzge.15583$J12.12859@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com...
    >
    >
    > wazzad wrote:
    >
    > >All I can say Sarah is that I have recently purchased the iP 8500
    printer.
    > >It is a superb printer. I frequently print A4 size landscape photographs
    > >from my digital camera and scanned 35mm slides. The resulting A4 prints
    are
    > >better than what you would get from quickie type film printing services.
    It
    > >paid for itself from developing all our relative's digital photos from
    our
    > >daughter's recent wedding. You will have no regrets purchasing the iP
    8500.
    > >
    > >P.S. Be careful buying non canon ink refills. I did that and the results
    > >were aweful. I isolated the problem down to the photo cyan and photo
    > >magnenta non canon ink cartridges.
    > >
    > >
    >
    > Where did you get the bad aftermarket ink from?
    >
    > >Hope this helps you in your choice.
    > >
    > >Cheers
    > >
    > >Ron from Downunder.
    > >
    > >"Sarah Feliz" <sfeliz@nada.com> wrote in message
    > >news:BEA7B140.32D4%sfeliz@nada.com...
    > >
    > >
    > >>Since I'm testing the iP5000 -- and reading up on the later models --
    I'm
    > >>thinking: maybe I should get the iP8500? Is it the top of the line
    Pixma?
    > >>
    > >>Is it better than the iP5000? If so, in what way, or in which specific
    > >>areas? Worth getting instead of the iP5000? Any downsides?
    > >>
    > >>Many thanks for your input
    > >>Sarah
    > >>
    > >>
    > >>
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
  6. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    Ink refillers, who take your cartridge and re"charge" it, are a
    different breed of ink vendor than 3rd party ink sellers, in general,
    although some do both.

    I have seen some major problems with refilling, although I am not sure
    it all can fall on the shoulders of the refillers themselves. The
    cartridges may be quite old, may have numerous formulations of ink
    passing through they or mixed within them. They may be incorrectly
    refilled, etc.

    I'm sure many are fine, but for accurate and repeatable color, OEM or
    pre-packaged 3rd party are probably best.

    Art

    wazzad wrote:

    > Measekite I purchased my ink refill cartridges from one of the supposedly
    > better ink cartridge refiller franchise stores. My bad experience with the
    > colour reproduction was enough to make me dip into my pockets for the
    > genuine canon ink cartridges and throw the ink refill cartridges in the bin,
    > where they belonged. Over here in Australia there are many ink refillers,
    > but my experiences have not been any good with any of them. Hope this helps.
    >
    > Cheers mate
    >
    > Ron from Downunder.
    >
    >
    > "measekite" <measekite@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    > news:tuzge.15583$J12.12859@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com...
    >
    >>
    >>wazzad wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>>All I can say Sarah is that I have recently purchased the iP 8500
    >
    > printer.
    >
    >>>It is a superb printer. I frequently print A4 size landscape photographs
    >>
    >>>from my digital camera and scanned 35mm slides. The resulting A4 prints
    >
    > are
    >
    >>>better than what you would get from quickie type film printing services.
    >
    > It
    >
    >>>paid for itself from developing all our relative's digital photos from
    >
    > our
    >
    >>>daughter's recent wedding. You will have no regrets purchasing the iP
    >
    > 8500.
    >
    >>>P.S. Be careful buying non canon ink refills. I did that and the results
    >>>were aweful. I isolated the problem down to the photo cyan and photo
    >>>magnenta non canon ink cartridges.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>
    >>Where did you get the bad aftermarket ink from?
    >>
    >>
    >>>Hope this helps you in your choice.
    >>>
    >>>Cheers
    >>>
    >>>Ron from Downunder.
    >>>
    >>>"Sarah Feliz" <sfeliz@nada.com> wrote in message
    >>>news:BEA7B140.32D4%sfeliz@nada.com...
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>>Since I'm testing the iP5000 -- and reading up on the later models --
    >
    > I'm
    >
    >>>>thinking: maybe I should get the iP8500? Is it the top of the line
    >
    > Pixma?
    >
    >>>>Is it better than the iP5000? If so, in what way, or in which specific
    >>>>areas? Worth getting instead of the iP5000? Any downsides?
    >>>>
    >>>>Many thanks for your input
    >>>>Sarah
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >
    >
  7. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    This is an example of what I have been professing on this NG for quite
    some time but the members of the AfterMarket Club keep defending these
    types of resellers.

    Do you happen to know the actual mfg/formulator of the junkie refills
    you tossed?

    wazzad wrote:

    >Measekite I purchased my ink refill cartridges from one of the supposedly
    >better ink cartridge refiller franchise stores. My bad experience with the
    >colour reproduction was enough to make me dip into my pockets for the
    >genuine canon ink cartridges and throw the ink refill cartridges in the bin,
    >where they belonged. Over here in Australia there are many ink refillers,
    >but my experiences have not been any good with any of them. Hope this helps.
    >
    >Cheers mate
    >
    >Ron from Downunder.
    >
    >
    >"measekite" <measekite@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    >news:tuzge.15583$J12.12859@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com...
    >
    >
    >>wazzad wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>>All I can say Sarah is that I have recently purchased the iP 8500
    >>>
    >>>
    >printer.
    >
    >
    >>>It is a superb printer. I frequently print A4 size landscape photographs
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>from my digital camera and scanned 35mm slides. The resulting A4 prints
    >>
    >>
    >are
    >
    >
    >>>better than what you would get from quickie type film printing services.
    >>>
    >>>
    >It
    >
    >
    >>>paid for itself from developing all our relative's digital photos from
    >>>
    >>>
    >our
    >
    >
    >>>daughter's recent wedding. You will have no regrets purchasing the iP
    >>>
    >>>
    >8500.
    >
    >
    >>>P.S. Be careful buying non canon ink refills. I did that and the results
    >>>were aweful. I isolated the problem down to the photo cyan and photo
    >>>magnenta non canon ink cartridges.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>Where did you get the bad aftermarket ink from?
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>>Hope this helps you in your choice.
    >>>
    >>>Cheers
    >>>
    >>>Ron from Downunder.
    >>>
    >>>"Sarah Feliz" <sfeliz@nada.com> wrote in message
    >>>news:BEA7B140.32D4%sfeliz@nada.com...
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>>Since I'm testing the iP5000 -- and reading up on the later models --
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >I'm
    >
    >
    >>>>thinking: maybe I should get the iP8500? Is it the top of the line
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >Pixma?
    >
    >
    >>>>Is it better than the iP5000? If so, in what way, or in which specific
    >>>>areas? Worth getting instead of the iP5000? Any downsides?
    >>>>
    >>>>Many thanks for your input
    >>>>Sarah
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >
    >
    >
    >
  8. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    Arthur Entlich wrote:

    > Ink refillers, who take your cartridge and re"charge" it, are a
    > different breed of ink vendor than 3rd party ink sellers, in general,
    > although some do both.


    They may target a different audience but they get their raw materials
    from the same places the "aftermarket" vendors get theirs from.

    >
    > I have seen some major problems with refilling, although I am not sure
    > it all can fall on the shoulders of the refillers themselves. The
    > cartridges may be quite old, may have numerous formulations of ink
    > passing through they or mixed within them. They may be incorrectly
    > refilled, etc.
    >
    > I'm sure many are fine, but for accurate and repeatable color, OEM or
    > pre-packaged 3rd party are probably best.
    >
    > Art
    >
    > wazzad wrote:
    >
    >> Measekite I purchased my ink refill cartridges from one of the
    >> supposedly
    >> better ink cartridge refiller franchise stores. My bad experience
    >> with the
    >> colour reproduction was enough to make me dip into my pockets for the
    >> genuine canon ink cartridges and throw the ink refill cartridges in
    >> the bin,
    >> where they belonged. Over here in Australia there are many ink
    >> refillers,
    >> but my experiences have not been any good with any of them. Hope this
    >> helps.
    >>
    >> Cheers mate
    >>
    >> Ron from Downunder.
    >>
    >>
    >> "measekite" <measekite@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    >> news:tuzge.15583$J12.12859@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com...
    >>
    >>>
    >>> wazzad wrote:
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>> All I can say Sarah is that I have recently purchased the iP 8500
    >>>
    >>
    >> printer.
    >>
    >>>> It is a superb printer. I frequently print A4 size landscape
    >>>> photographs
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>> from my digital camera and scanned 35mm slides. The resulting A4
    >>>> prints
    >>>
    >>
    >> are
    >>
    >>>> better than what you would get from quickie type film printing
    >>>> services.
    >>>
    >>
    >> It
    >>
    >>>> paid for itself from developing all our relative's digital photos from
    >>>
    >>
    >> our
    >>
    >>>> daughter's recent wedding. You will have no regrets purchasing the iP
    >>>
    >>
    >> 8500.
    >>
    >>>> P.S. Be careful buying non canon ink refills. I did that and the
    >>>> results
    >>>> were aweful. I isolated the problem down to the photo cyan and photo
    >>>> magnenta non canon ink cartridges.
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>
    >>> Where did you get the bad aftermarket ink from?
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>> Hope this helps you in your choice.
    >>>>
    >>>> Cheers
    >>>>
    >>>> Ron from Downunder.
    >>>>
    >>>> "Sarah Feliz" <sfeliz@nada.com> wrote in message
    >>>> news:BEA7B140.32D4%sfeliz@nada.com...
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>> Since I'm testing the iP5000 -- and reading up on the later models --
    >>>>
    >>
    >> I'm
    >>
    >>>>> thinking: maybe I should get the iP8500? Is it the top of the line
    >>>>
    >>
    >> Pixma?
    >>
    >>>>> Is it better than the iP5000? If so, in what way, or in which
    >>>>> specific
    >>>>> areas? Worth getting instead of the iP5000? Any downsides?
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Many thanks for your input
    >>>>> Sarah
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>
    >>
  9. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    "measekite" <measekite@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    news:D5Jge.1605$3%4.105@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...
    >
    >
    > Arthur Entlich wrote:
    >
    >> Ink refillers, who take your cartridge and re"charge" it, are a different
    >> breed of ink vendor than 3rd party ink sellers, in general, although some
    >> do both.
    >
    >
    > They may target a different audience but they get their raw materials from
    > the same places the "aftermarket" vendors get theirs from.
    (snip)

    Perhaps you missed Arthur's point - Refilling firms collect used cartridges,
    refill them, and sell them. They don't know how many times a cart has been
    refilled, what inks have been through them, or what the state of the sponge
    and exit port filter (BCI 6) are. Successful refilling by home or business
    users requires that the cartridge is not fully emptied before trying to
    refill, that it isn't permitted to dry out once removed from the printer,
    and that predictably good inks are used. Third party vendors of filled
    cartridges use newly manufactured carts, and reliable vendors fill them with
    reliable inks. Some vendors have been in business for many years and their
    products have proven to be reliable, as reported by users of their products.
  10. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    Burt wrote:

    >"measekite" <measekite@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    >news:D5Jge.1605$3%4.105@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...
    >
    >
    >>Arthur Entlich wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>>Ink refillers, who take your cartridge and re"charge" it, are a different
    >>>breed of ink vendor than 3rd party ink sellers, in general, although some
    >>>do both.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>They may target a different audience but they get their raw materials from
    >>the same places the "aftermarket" vendors get theirs from.
    >>
    >>
    >(snip)
    >
    >Perhaps you missed Arthur's point - Refilling firms collect used cartridges,
    >refill them, and sell them.
    >

    When referring to raw materials (not parts or carts themselves) I was
    referring to ink. Last I heard is that aftermarket resellers sell ink
    either in bottles or prefilled in carts.

    >They don't know how many times a cart has been
    >refilled, what inks have been through them, or what the state of the sponge
    >and exit port filter (BCI 6) are. Successful refilling by home or business
    >users requires that the cartridge is not fully emptied before trying to
    >refill, that it isn't permitted to dry out once removed from the printer,
    >and that predictably good inks are used. Third party vendors of filled
    >cartridges use newly manufactured carts, and reliable vendors fill them with
    >reliable inks.
    >

    There really is a mix. You may have some reliable vendors filling with
    reliable inks. You may have unreliable vendors filling with reliable
    inks. You also may have unreliable vendors filling with unreliable ink.

    >Some vendors have been in business for many years and their
    >products have proven to be reliable,
    >

    It is very easy for them to accept a new deal (far lower price) from
    someone and just continue on with selling under their store label and
    fool the public for a while.

    >as reported by users of their products.
    >
    >
    >
    >
  11. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    I'm afraid I didn't explain myself well enough for you to understand -
    Companies who take in used carts and refill them appear to be the problem.
    They would have a greater possibility of selling a cart that does not
    function properly than someone who purchases new third party carts filled
    with aftermarket inks. No need to buy refilled canon BCI3 or BCI6 carts as
    there are many vendors who sell prefilled NEW third party carts and bulk
    inks. The most successful refilling at home is done in OEM carts after one
    uses the OEM ink. The least successful seems to be with some of the
    "improved" third party carts that are designed much differently from the OEM
    carts.

    As I understand it, no one can mfg a third party HP cart and so the only
    third party filled carts are OEM carts that have been refilled. Some people
    who do their own refilling with HP carts report success, but I have read
    that the process is very technique sensitive. Most important is to not run
    the tank empty before refilling.

    As Arthur has said reliable vendors who have been in business for many years
    realize that it is in their best interest to NOT switch to an inferior
    product as they, like most businesses, value repeat business and good PR
    from satisfied customers.

    "measekite" <measekite@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    news:kMNge.1728$Y81.195@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...
    >
    >
    > Burt wrote:
    >
    >>"measekite" <measekite@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    >>news:D5Jge.1605$3%4.105@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...
    >>
    >>>Arthur Entlich wrote:
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>>Ink refillers, who take your cartridge and re"charge" it, are a
    >>>>different breed of ink vendor than 3rd party ink sellers, in general,
    >>>>although some do both.
    >>>>
    >>>They may target a different audience but they get their raw materials
    >>>from the same places the "aftermarket" vendors get theirs from.
    >>>
    >>(snip)
    >>
    >>Perhaps you missed Arthur's point - Refilling firms collect used
    >>cartridges, refill them, and sell them.
    >
    > When referring to raw materials (not parts or carts themselves) I was
    > referring to ink. Last I heard is that aftermarket resellers sell ink
    > either in bottles or prefilled in carts.
    >
    >>They don't know how many times a cart has been refilled, what inks have
    >>been through them, or what the state of the sponge and exit port filter
    >>(BCI 6) are. Successful refilling by home or business users requires that
    >>the cartridge is not fully emptied before trying to refill, that it isn't
    >>permitted to dry out once removed from the printer, and that predictably
    >>good inks are used. Third party vendors of filled cartridges use newly
    >>manufactured carts, and reliable vendors fill them with reliable inks.
    >
    > There really is a mix. You may have some reliable vendors filling with
    > reliable inks. You may have unreliable vendors filling with reliable
    > inks. You also may have unreliable vendors filling with unreliable ink.
    >
    >>Some vendors have been in business for many years and their products have
    >>proven to be reliable,
    >
    > It is very easy for them to accept a new deal (far lower price) from
    > someone and just continue on with selling under their store label and fool
    > the public for a while.
    >
    >>as reported by users of their products.
    >>
    >>
  12. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    Burt wrote:

    >I'm afraid I didn't explain myself well enough for you to understand -
    >Companies who take in used carts and refill them appear to be the problem.
    >They would have a greater possibility of selling a cart that does not
    >function properly than someone who purchases new third party carts filled
    >with aftermarket inks. No need to buy refilled canon BCI3 or BCI6 carts as
    >there are many vendors who sell prefilled NEW third party carts and bulk
    >inks. The most successful refilling at home is done in OEM carts after one
    >uses the OEM ink. The least successful seems to be with some of the
    >"improved" third party carts that are designed much differently from the OEM
    >carts.
    >
    >

    You can only refill the Canon carts so many times before they begin to
    deteriorate.

    >As I understand it, no one can mfg a third party HP cart and so the only
    >third party filled carts are OEM carts that have been refilled. Some people
    >who do their own refilling with HP carts report success, but I have read
    >that the process is very technique sensitive. Most important is to not run
    >the tank empty before refilling.
    >
    >As Arthur has said reliable vendors who have been in business for many years
    >realize that it is in their best interest to NOT switch to an inferior
    >product as they, like most businesses, value repeat business and good PR
    >from satisfied customers.
    >
    >"measekite" <measekite@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    >news:kMNge.1728$Y81.195@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...
    >
    >
    >>Burt wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>>"measekite" <measekite@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    >>>news:D5Jge.1605$3%4.105@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>>Arthur Entlich wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>>Ink refillers, who take your cartridge and re"charge" it, are a
    >>>>>different breed of ink vendor than 3rd party ink sellers, in general,
    >>>>>although some do both.
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>They may target a different audience but they get their raw materials
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>from the same places the "aftermarket" vendors get theirs from.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>(snip)
    >>>
    >>>Perhaps you missed Arthur's point - Refilling firms collect used
    >>>cartridges, refill them, and sell them.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>When referring to raw materials (not parts or carts themselves) I was
    >>referring to ink. Last I heard is that aftermarket resellers sell ink
    >>either in bottles or prefilled in carts.
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>>They don't know how many times a cart has been refilled, what inks have
    >>>been through them, or what the state of the sponge and exit port filter
    >>>(BCI 6) are. Successful refilling by home or business users requires that
    >>>the cartridge is not fully emptied before trying to refill, that it isn't
    >>>permitted to dry out once removed from the printer, and that predictably
    >>>good inks are used. Third party vendors of filled cartridges use newly
    >>>manufactured carts, and reliable vendors fill them with reliable inks.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>There really is a mix. You may have some reliable vendors filling with
    >>reliable inks. You may have unreliable vendors filling with reliable
    >>inks. You also may have unreliable vendors filling with unreliable ink.
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>>Some vendors have been in business for many years and their products have
    >>>proven to be reliable,
    >>>
    >>>
    >>It is very easy for them to accept a new deal (far lower price) from
    >>someone and just continue on with selling under their store label and fool
    >>the public for a while.
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>>as reported by users of their products.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >
    >
    >
    >
  13. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    "measekite" <measekite@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    news:fQTge.1843$Y81.1352@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...
    >
    >
    > Burt wrote:
    >
    >>I'm afraid I didn't explain myself well enough for you to understand -
    >>Companies who take in used carts and refill them appear to be the problem.
    >>They would have a greater possibility of selling a cart that does not
    >>function properly than someone who purchases new third party carts filled
    >>with aftermarket inks. No need to buy refilled canon BCI3 or BCI6 carts
    >>as there are many vendors who sell prefilled NEW third party carts and
    >>bulk inks. The most successful refilling at home is done in OEM carts
    >>after one uses the OEM ink. The least successful seems to be with some of
    >>the "improved" third party carts that are designed much differently from
    >>the OEM carts.
    >>
    >
    > You can only refill the Canon carts so many times before they begin to
    > deteriorate.

    (snip)

    You are quite right that you can only refill them so many times, but I
    understand that the problem is less deterioration than dried ink eventually
    making the sponge material unable to take up ink or the exit port filter
    less able to release ink on demand from the printer. I have the original
    OEM set, nearly a year old, still working with as many as 8 or 9 refills in
    some of the carts. Recently one of them started to do some banding. The
    fix was really simple. First blow gently into the air vent to see if ink
    drips out of the exit port. If it is not coming out easily you can turn it
    upside down, put 8 to 10 drops of alcohol in the exit port, seal the exit
    port with the cap that came with the OEM cart (hold on with rubber band),
    turn it back upright, open the fill hole, put it into the microwave (covered
    in case something unexpected happens!), together with a glass of water to
    absorb most of the microwave energy, and zap it at ten second intervals
    until the reservoir part of the cart reaches about 150 - 160 degrees. Then
    refill and let the little bit of alchohol-diluted ink drip out of the exit
    port. Apparently, heating the cart with ink in it redesolves that tiny
    amount of dried ink in the sponge/filter. This is about a ten minute
    project. For someone who doesn't want to bother, you can instead buy a new
    OEM cart and start the process of refilling over. Some people have had
    great success buying Alotofthings carts and refilling them, and your initial
    investment in the cart is much less.

    Yes, Measekite, I have always been a tinkerer and that is why I had a
    successful career as a rocket scientist. (just kidding!) Actually, my career
    involved precision work in the range of fractions of millimeters with very
    small tolerances using very precise instruments. Photography, woodworking,
    car repair, gardening, ceramics, wood block printing, and fishing - these
    are all things I enjoy as a rest from the more cerebral and demanding
    efforts that my work of 40 years involved. Dealing with inks/carts
    absolutely isn't rocket science. I'm not intimidated by a $150 printer and
    the simplest of tasks, refilling ink carts. It is just a no-thought-process
    quick task that I can do when necessary between prints.
  14. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    Measekit when I rang him up re: the appalling colour rendition of the
    refilled canon BC 6 photo cyan and photo magnenta and asked him whether
    these were specifically formulated canon inks he appeared somewhat evasive.
    He stated that his inks were the finest inks that he purchased from Germany.
    These cartridges gave such a bad tint that they could not be adjusted even
    with manual settings through my manual settings. All areas of my A4 printed
    photos had a horrible bluey cast colour. The name of the ink refiller
    franchise is 'Cartridge World' which refills your cartridges for $13 each
    with their ink (BC6 series), which is not cheap for refilled cartridges in
    Australia.

    Cheers mate.

    Ron from Downunder.


    "measekite" <measekite@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    news:%RIge.16089$J12.3209@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com...
    > This is an example of what I have been professing on this NG for quite
    > some time but the members of the AfterMarket Club keep defending these
    > types of resellers.
    >
    > Do you happen to know the actual mfg/formulator of the junkie refills
    > you tossed?
    >
    > wazzad wrote:
    >
    > >Measekite I purchased my ink refill cartridges from one of the supposedly
    > >better ink cartridge refiller franchise stores. My bad experience with
    the
    > >colour reproduction was enough to make me dip into my pockets for the
    > >genuine canon ink cartridges and throw the ink refill cartridges in the
    bin,
    > >where they belonged. Over here in Australia there are many ink refillers,
    > >but my experiences have not been any good with any of them. Hope this
    helps.
    > >
    > >Cheers mate
    > >
    > >Ron from Downunder.
    > >
    > >
    > >"measekite" <measekite@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    > >news:tuzge.15583$J12.12859@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com...
    > >
    > >
    > >>wazzad wrote:
    > >>
    > >>
    > >>
    > >>>All I can say Sarah is that I have recently purchased the iP 8500
    > >>>
    > >>>
    > >printer.
    > >
    > >
    > >>>It is a superb printer. I frequently print A4 size landscape
    photographs
    > >>>
    > >>>
    > >>>from my digital camera and scanned 35mm slides. The resulting A4 prints
    > >>
    > >>
    > >are
    > >
    > >
    > >>>better than what you would get from quickie type film printing
    services.
    > >>>
    > >>>
    > >It
    > >
    > >
    > >>>paid for itself from developing all our relative's digital photos from
    > >>>
    > >>>
    > >our
    > >
    > >
    > >>>daughter's recent wedding. You will have no regrets purchasing the iP
    > >>>
    > >>>
    > >8500.
    > >
    > >
    > >>>P.S. Be careful buying non canon ink refills. I did that and the
    results
    > >>>were aweful. I isolated the problem down to the photo cyan and photo
    > >>>magnenta non canon ink cartridges.
    > >>>
    > >>>
    > >>>
    > >>>
    > >>Where did you get the bad aftermarket ink from?
    > >>
    > >>
    > >>
    > >>>Hope this helps you in your choice.
    > >>>
    > >>>Cheers
    > >>>
    > >>>Ron from Downunder.
    > >>>
    > >>>"Sarah Feliz" <sfeliz@nada.com> wrote in message
    > >>>news:BEA7B140.32D4%sfeliz@nada.com...
    > >>>
    > >>>
    > >>>
    > >>>
    > >>>>Since I'm testing the iP5000 -- and reading up on the later models --
    > >>>>
    > >>>>
    > >I'm
    > >
    > >
    > >>>>thinking: maybe I should get the iP8500? Is it the top of the line
    > >>>>
    > >>>>
    > >Pixma?
    > >
    > >
    > >>>>Is it better than the iP5000? If so, in what way, or in which specific
    > >>>>areas? Worth getting instead of the iP5000? Any downsides?
    > >>>>
    > >>>>Many thanks for your input
    > >>>>Sarah
    > >>>>
    > >>>>
    > >>>>
    > >>>>
    > >>>>
    > >>>
    > >>>
    > >>>
    > >>>
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
  15. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    wazzad wrote:

    >Measekit when I rang him up re: the appalling colour rendition of the
    >refilled canon BC 6 photo cyan and photo magnenta and asked him whether
    >these were specifically formulated canon inks he appeared somewhat evasive.
    >He stated that his inks were the finest inks that he purchased from Germany.
    >These cartridges gave such a bad tint that they could not be adjusted even
    >with manual settings through my manual settings. All areas of my A4 printed
    >photos had a horrible bluey cast colour. The name of the ink refiller
    >franchise is 'Cartridge World' which refills your cartridges for $13 each
    >with their ink (BC6 series), which is not cheap for refilled cartridges in
    >Australia.
    >
    >

    The USA price for a new Canon OEM BCI6 cart at Costco is $9.00. I do
    not know what that translates to in Aussie dollars.

    >Cheers mate.
    >
    >Ron from Downunder.
    >
    >
    >"measekite" <measekite@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    >news:%RIge.16089$J12.3209@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com...
    >
    >
    >>This is an example of what I have been professing on this NG for quite
    >>some time but the members of the AfterMarket Club keep defending these
    >>types of resellers.
    >>
    >>Do you happen to know the actual mfg/formulator of the junkie refills
    >>you tossed?
    >>
    >>wazzad wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>>Measekite I purchased my ink refill cartridges from one of the supposedly
    >>>better ink cartridge refiller franchise stores. My bad experience with
    >>>
    >>>
    >the
    >
    >
    >>>colour reproduction was enough to make me dip into my pockets for the
    >>>genuine canon ink cartridges and throw the ink refill cartridges in the
    >>>
    >>>
    >bin,
    >
    >
    >>>where they belonged. Over here in Australia there are many ink refillers,
    >>>but my experiences have not been any good with any of them. Hope this
    >>>
    >>>
    >helps.
    >
    >
    >>>Cheers mate
    >>>
    >>>Ron from Downunder.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>"measekite" <measekite@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    >>>news:tuzge.15583$J12.12859@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com...
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>>wazzad wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>>All I can say Sarah is that I have recently purchased the iP 8500
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>printer.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>>>It is a superb printer. I frequently print A4 size landscape
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >photographs
    >
    >
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>from my digital camera and scanned 35mm slides. The resulting A4 prints
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>are
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>>>better than what you would get from quickie type film printing
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >services.
    >
    >
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>It
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>>>paid for itself from developing all our relative's digital photos from
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>our
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>>>daughter's recent wedding. You will have no regrets purchasing the iP
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>8500.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>>>P.S. Be careful buying non canon ink refills. I did that and the
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >results
    >
    >
    >>>>>were aweful. I isolated the problem down to the photo cyan and photo
    >>>>>magnenta non canon ink cartridges.
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>Where did you get the bad aftermarket ink from?
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>>Hope this helps you in your choice.
    >>>>>
    >>>>>Cheers
    >>>>>
    >>>>>Ron from Downunder.
    >>>>>
    >>>>>"Sarah Feliz" <sfeliz@nada.com> wrote in message
    >>>>>news:BEA7B140.32D4%sfeliz@nada.com...
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>>Since I'm testing the iP5000 -- and reading up on the later models --
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>I'm
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>>>>thinking: maybe I should get the iP8500? Is it the top of the line
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>Pixma?
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>>>>Is it better than the iP5000? If so, in what way, or in which specific
    >>>>>>areas? Worth getting instead of the iP5000? Any downsides?
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>Many thanks for your input
    >>>>>>Sarah
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >
    >
    >
    >
  16. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    "measekite" <measekite@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    news:B8Uge.16323$J12.13799@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com...
    >
    >
    > wazzad wrote:
    >
    >>Measekit when I rang him up re: the appalling colour rendition of the
    >>refilled canon BC 6 photo cyan and photo magnenta and asked him whether
    >>these were specifically formulated canon inks he appeared somewhat
    >>evasive.
    >>He stated that his inks were the finest inks that he purchased from
    >>Germany.
    >>These cartridges gave such a bad tint that they could not be adjusted even
    >>with manual settings through my manual settings. All areas of my A4
    >>printed
    >>photos had a horrible bluey cast colour. The name of the ink refiller
    >>franchise is 'Cartridge World' which refills your cartridges for $13 each
    >>with their ink (BC6 series), which is not cheap for refilled cartridges in
    >>Australia.
    >>
    >
    > The USA price for a new Canon OEM BCI6 cart at Costco is $9.00. I do not
    > know what that translates to in Aussie dollars.

    (snip)

    As I recall, you can not buy one at a time but must buy them in packs of
    three with a cost of $31 per three pack. A bit more than $10 apiece plus
    tax. Still cheaper per cart than the list price, but you need to buy three
    of a color to save about $2 per cart. To effect this savings on your five
    color printer you will need to spend $155 to purchase all the colors needed
    for replacement at any given time. Effective savings is about $30. No
    criticism intended. Just stating the facts on savings via Costco OEM Canon
    carts.
  17. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    But that's not the issue.

    Although I do refill some cartridges, I also recognize there are more
    perils involved. There is a risk of contamination during the refill
    process from environmental contaminants or from changes within the ink
    cartridge (dried inks, incompatibility between inks, foam breakdown,
    build up of ink foaming, air bubbles trapped, etc) and the ink, which
    may have been exposed to excessive oxygen and oxidized, over-evaporated
    fluids or solvents, etc.. The ink cartridge which are virgin are
    manufactured typically in a very hygienic and professionally managed
    situation, and the cartridge is fresh when filled. There are many less
    variables involved in a factory filled cartridge.


    Art


    measekite wrote:


    >
    >
    > Arthur Entlich wrote:
    >
    >> Ink refillers, who take your cartridge and re"charge" it, are a
    >> different breed of ink vendor than 3rd party ink sellers, in general,
    >> although some do both.
    >
    >
    >
    > They may target a different audience but they get their raw materials
    > from the same places the "aftermarket" vendors get theirs from.
    >
    >>
    >> I have seen some major problems with refilling, although I am not sure
    >> it all can fall on the shoulders of the refillers themselves. The
    >> cartridges may be quite old, may have numerous formulations of ink
    >> passing through they or mixed within them. They may be incorrectly
    >> refilled, etc.
    >>
    >> I'm sure many are fine, but for accurate and repeatable color, OEM or
    >> pre-packaged 3rd party are probably best.
    >>
    >> Art
    >>
    >> wazzad wrote:
    >>
    >>> Measekite I purchased my ink refill cartridges from one of the
    >>> supposedly
    >>> better ink cartridge refiller franchise stores. My bad experience
    >>> with the
    >>> colour reproduction was enough to make me dip into my pockets for the
    >>> genuine canon ink cartridges and throw the ink refill cartridges in
    >>> the bin,
    >>> where they belonged. Over here in Australia there are many ink
    >>> refillers,
    >>> but my experiences have not been any good with any of them. Hope this
    >>> helps.
    >>>
    >>> Cheers mate
    >>>
    >>> Ron from Downunder.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> "measekite" <measekite@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    >>> news:tuzge.15583$J12.12859@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com...
    >>>
    >>>>
    >>>> wazzad wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>> All I can say Sarah is that I have recently purchased the iP 8500
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>
    >>> printer.
    >>>
    >>>>> It is a superb printer. I frequently print A4 size landscape
    >>>>> photographs
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>> from my digital camera and scanned 35mm slides. The resulting A4
    >>>>> prints
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>
    >>> are
    >>>
    >>>>> better than what you would get from quickie type film printing
    >>>>> services.
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>
    >>> It
    >>>
    >>>>> paid for itself from developing all our relative's digital photos from
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>
    >>> our
    >>>
    >>>>> daughter's recent wedding. You will have no regrets purchasing the iP
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>
    >>> 8500.
    >>>
    >>>>> P.S. Be careful buying non canon ink refills. I did that and the
    >>>>> results
    >>>>> were aweful. I isolated the problem down to the photo cyan and photo
    >>>>> magnenta non canon ink cartridges.
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>
    >>>> Where did you get the bad aftermarket ink from?
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>> Hope this helps you in your choice.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Cheers
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Ron from Downunder.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> "Sarah Feliz" <sfeliz@nada.com> wrote in message
    >>>>> news:BEA7B140.32D4%sfeliz@nada.com...
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>> Since I'm testing the iP5000 -- and reading up on the later models --
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>
    >>> I'm
    >>>
    >>>>>> thinking: maybe I should get the iP8500? Is it the top of the line
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>
    >>> Pixma?
    >>>
    >>>>>> Is it better than the iP5000? If so, in what way, or in which
    >>>>>> specific
    >>>>>> areas? Worth getting instead of the iP5000? Any downsides?
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> Many thanks for your input
    >>>>>> Sarah
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>
    >>>
  18. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    Burt wrote:

    >"measekite" <measekite@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    >news:B8Uge.16323$J12.13799@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com...
    >
    >
    >>wazzad wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>>Measekit when I rang him up re: the appalling colour rendition of the
    >>>refilled canon BC 6 photo cyan and photo magnenta and asked him whether
    >>>these were specifically formulated canon inks he appeared somewhat
    >>>evasive.
    >>>He stated that his inks were the finest inks that he purchased from
    >>>Germany.
    >>>These cartridges gave such a bad tint that they could not be adjusted even
    >>>with manual settings through my manual settings. All areas of my A4
    >>>printed
    >>>photos had a horrible bluey cast colour. The name of the ink refiller
    >>>franchise is 'Cartridge World' which refills your cartridges for $13 each
    >>>with their ink (BC6 series), which is not cheap for refilled cartridges in
    >>>Australia.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>The USA price for a new Canon OEM BCI6 cart at Costco is $9.00. I do not
    >>know what that translates to in Aussie dollars.
    >>
    >>
    >
    >(snip)
    >
    >As I recall, you can not buy one at a time but must buy them in packs of
    >three with a cost of $31 per three pack. A bit more than $10 apiece plus
    >tax.
    >
    No Shipping. You do not buy 1 ounce of ink at a time either.

    >Still cheaper per cart than the list price, but you need to buy three
    >of a color to save about $2 per cart.
    >
    INCORRECT AGAIN. Costco sells a 3 pack of color. One each of the
    primary colors. These usually run out within weeks of each other. You
    are actually purchasing one cart per color in the packaged. With the
    dye black there are 3.

    > To effect this savings on your five
    >color printer you will need to spend $155 to purchase all the colors needed
    >for replacement at any given time.
    >

    All of the colors do not go at one time. In the 8 months I have had my
    printer I replaced all of the colors one time. Both blacks have not
    been replaced. The price was about $27.00 for the colors. I have not
    even received low warnings on the blacks.

    >Effective savings is about $30. No
    >criticism intended. Just stating the facts on savings via Costco OEM Canon
    >carts.
    >
    >
    >
    >
  19. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    Exactly!

    Art

    Burt wrote:

    > "measekite" <measekite@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    > news:D5Jge.1605$3%4.105@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...
    >
    >>
    >>Arthur Entlich wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>>Ink refillers, who take your cartridge and re"charge" it, are a different
    >>>breed of ink vendor than 3rd party ink sellers, in general, although some
    >>>do both.
    >>
    >>
    >>They may target a different audience but they get their raw materials from
    >>the same places the "aftermarket" vendors get theirs from.
    >
    > (snip)
    >
    > Perhaps you missed Arthur's point - Refilling firms collect used cartridges,
    > refill them, and sell them. They don't know how many times a cart has been
    > refilled, what inks have been through them, or what the state of the sponge
    > and exit port filter (BCI 6) are. Successful refilling by home or business
    > users requires that the cartridge is not fully emptied before trying to
    > refill, that it isn't permitted to dry out once removed from the printer,
    > and that predictably good inks are used. Third party vendors of filled
    > cartridges use newly manufactured carts, and reliable vendors fill them with
    > reliable inks. Some vendors have been in business for many years and their
    > products have proven to be reliable, as reported by users of their products.
    >
    >
  20. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    Measkite, you need to READ what's written before replying:

    >>>> Ink refillers, who take your cartridge and re"charge" it, are a
    >>>> different breed of ink vendor than 3rd party ink sellers, in
    >>>> general, although some do both.


    How much clear can that description be?

    Yes, think can change overnight with a ink vendor. Guess what? The
    same thing can happen (and in fact has happened) with an OEM supplier.

    I have seen several OEM companies change the "location" of their ink
    facility. You think they are using the same inks? They aren't. They
    hire new companies to make their inks.

    Art


    measekite wrote:

    >
    >
    > Burt wrote:
    >
    >> "measekite" <measekite@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    >> news:D5Jge.1605$3%4.105@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...
    >>
    >>
    >>> Arthur Entlich wrote:
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>

    >>>>
    >>>
    >>> They may target a different audience but they get their raw materials
    >>> from the same places the "aftermarket" vendors get theirs from.
    >>>
    >>
    >> (snip)
    >>
    >> Perhaps you missed Arthur's point - Refilling firms collect used
    >> cartridges, refill them, and sell them.
    >
    >
    > When referring to raw materials (not parts or carts themselves) I was
    > referring to ink. Last I heard is that aftermarket resellers sell ink
    > either in bottles or prefilled in carts.
    >
    >> They don't know how many times a cart has been refilled, what inks
    >> have been through them, or what the state of the sponge and exit port
    >> filter (BCI 6) are. Successful refilling by home or business users
    >> requires that the cartridge is not fully emptied before trying to
    >> refill, that it isn't permitted to dry out once removed from the
    >> printer, and that predictably good inks are used. Third party vendors
    >> of filled cartridges use newly manufactured carts, and reliable
    >> vendors fill them with reliable inks.
    >
    >
    > There really is a mix. You may have some reliable vendors filling with
    > reliable inks. You may have unreliable vendors filling with reliable
    > inks. You also may have unreliable vendors filling with unreliable ink.
    >
    >> Some vendors have been in business for many years and their products
    >> have proven to be reliable,
    >
    >
    > It is very easy for them to accept a new deal (far lower price) from
    > someone and just continue on with selling under their store label and
    > fool the public for a while.
    >
    >> as reported by users of their products.
    >>
    >>
    >>
  21. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    Arthur Entlich wrote:

    > But that's not the issue.
    >
    > Although I do refill some cartridges, I also recognize there are more
    > perils involved. There is a risk of contamination during the refill
    > process from environmental contaminants or from changes within the ink
    > cartridge (dried inks, incompatibility between inks, foam breakdown,
    > build up of ink foaming, air bubbles trapped, etc) and the ink, which
    > may have been exposed to excessive oxygen and oxidized,
    > over-evaporated fluids or solvents, etc.. The ink cartridge which are
    > virgin are manufactured typically in a very hygienic and
    > professionally managed situation, and the cartridge is fresh when
    > filled. There are many less variables involved in a factory filled
    > cartridge.


    And for a few dollars more you avoid the pain in the ass (for some)
    There are people who like a pain in the ass. If my print load ever gets
    to a point that I no longer want to pay for OEM ink my first step would
    be to researched prefilled carts.

    Also with all of the talk about BRANDS of ink I have not read much here
    on BRANDS of cartridges. Who makes them and what ones are good and what
    ones are poor.

    >
    >
    > Art
    >
    >
    > measekite wrote:
    >
    >
    >
    >>
    >>
    >> Arthur Entlich wrote:
    >>
    >>> Ink refillers, who take your cartridge and re"charge" it, are a
    >>> different breed of ink vendor than 3rd party ink sellers, in
    >>> general, although some do both.
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> They may target a different audience but they get their raw materials
    >> from the same places the "aftermarket" vendors get theirs from.
    >>
    >>>
    >>> I have seen some major problems with refilling, although I am not
    >>> sure it all can fall on the shoulders of the refillers themselves.
    >>> The cartridges may be quite old, may have numerous formulations of
    >>> ink passing through they or mixed within them. They may be
    >>> incorrectly refilled, etc.
    >>>
    >>> I'm sure many are fine, but for accurate and repeatable color, OEM
    >>> or pre-packaged 3rd party are probably best.
    >>>
    >>> Art
    >>>
    >>> wazzad wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> Measekite I purchased my ink refill cartridges from one of the
    >>>> supposedly
    >>>> better ink cartridge refiller franchise stores. My bad experience
    >>>> with the
    >>>> colour reproduction was enough to make me dip into my pockets for the
    >>>> genuine canon ink cartridges and throw the ink refill cartridges in
    >>>> the bin,
    >>>> where they belonged. Over here in Australia there are many ink
    >>>> refillers,
    >>>> but my experiences have not been any good with any of them. Hope
    >>>> this helps.
    >>>>
    >>>> Cheers mate
    >>>>
    >>>> Ron from Downunder.
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>> "measekite" <measekite@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    >>>> news:tuzge.15583$J12.12859@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com...
    >>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>> wazzad wrote:
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>> All I can say Sarah is that I have recently purchased the iP 8500
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>
    >>>> printer.
    >>>>
    >>>>>> It is a superb printer. I frequently print A4 size landscape
    >>>>>> photographs
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>> from my digital camera and scanned 35mm slides. The resulting A4
    >>>>>> prints
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>
    >>>> are
    >>>>
    >>>>>> better than what you would get from quickie type film printing
    >>>>>> services.
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>
    >>>> It
    >>>>
    >>>>>> paid for itself from developing all our relative's digital photos
    >>>>>> from
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>
    >>>> our
    >>>>
    >>>>>> daughter's recent wedding. You will have no regrets purchasing
    >>>>>> the iP
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>
    >>>> 8500.
    >>>>
    >>>>>> P.S. Be careful buying non canon ink refills. I did that and the
    >>>>>> results
    >>>>>> were aweful. I isolated the problem down to the photo cyan and photo
    >>>>>> magnenta non canon ink cartridges.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Where did you get the bad aftermarket ink from?
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>> Hope this helps you in your choice.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> Cheers
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> Ron from Downunder.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> "Sarah Feliz" <sfeliz@nada.com> wrote in message
    >>>>>> news:BEA7B140.32D4%sfeliz@nada.com...
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>> Since I'm testing the iP5000 -- and reading up on the later
    >>>>>>> models --
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>
    >>>> I'm
    >>>>
    >>>>>>> thinking: maybe I should get the iP8500? Is it the top of the line
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>
    >>>> Pixma?
    >>>>
    >>>>>>> Is it better than the iP5000? If so, in what way, or in which
    >>>>>>> specific
    >>>>>>> areas? Worth getting instead of the iP5000? Any downsides?
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> Many thanks for your input
    >>>>>>> Sarah
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>
  22. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    Arthur Entlich wrote:

    > Measkite, you need to READ what's written before replying:
    >
    > >>>> Ink refillers, who take your cartridge and re"charge" it, are a
    > >>>> different breed of ink vendor than 3rd party ink sellers, in
    > >>>> general, although some do both.
    >
    >
    > How much clear can that description be?
    >
    > Yes, think can change overnight with a ink vendor. Guess what? The
    > same thing can happen (and in fact has happened) with an OEM supplier.
    >
    > I have seen several OEM companies change the "location" of their ink
    > facility. You think they are using the same inks? They aren't. They
    > hire new companies to make their inks.
    >
    > Art


    I understand this but in the case of Canon, Epson, and HP it is not so
    much as who makes the ink as it is what they are making. In all of
    these caes these companies own and control the ink formulations and the
    inks are make to their specifications and the they also administer a
    quality control program.

    >
    >
    > measekite wrote:
    >
    >>
    >>
    >> Burt wrote:
    >>
    >>> "measekite" <measekite@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    >>> news:D5Jge.1605$3%4.105@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>> Arthur Entlich wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>
    >
    >>>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>> They may target a different audience but they get their raw
    >>>> materials from the same places the "aftermarket" vendors get theirs
    >>>> from.
    >>>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> (snip)
    >>>
    >>> Perhaps you missed Arthur's point - Refilling firms collect used
    >>> cartridges, refill them, and sell them.
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> When referring to raw materials (not parts or carts themselves) I was
    >> referring to ink. Last I heard is that aftermarket resellers sell
    >> ink either in bottles or prefilled in carts.
    >>
    >>> They don't know how many times a cart has been refilled, what inks
    >>> have been through them, or what the state of the sponge and exit
    >>> port filter (BCI 6) are. Successful refilling by home or business
    >>> users requires that the cartridge is not fully emptied before trying
    >>> to refill, that it isn't permitted to dry out once removed from the
    >>> printer, and that predictably good inks are used. Third party
    >>> vendors of filled cartridges use newly manufactured carts, and
    >>> reliable vendors fill them with reliable inks.
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> There really is a mix. You may have some reliable vendors filling
    >> with reliable inks. You may have unreliable vendors filling with
    >> reliable inks. You also may have unreliable vendors filling with
    >> unreliable ink.
    >>
    >>> Some vendors have been in business for many years and their products
    >>> have proven to be reliable,
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> It is very easy for them to accept a new deal (far lower price) from
    >> someone and just continue on with selling under their store label and
    >> fool the public for a while.
    >>
    >>> as reported by users of their products.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
  23. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    "measekite" <measekite@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    news:Qz3he.2034$3%4.597@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>The USA price for a new Canon OEM BCI6 cart at Costco is $9.00. I do not
    >>>know what that translates to in Aussie dollars.>(snip)
    >>
    >>As I recall, you can not buy one at a time but must buy them in packs of
    >>three with a cost of $31 per three pack. A bit more than $10 apiece plus
    >>tax.
    > No Shipping. You do not buy 1 ounce of ink at a time either.

    Incredibly, as usual you are right again! Let me explain some simple math.
    I am a low volume user of bulk inks so I buy them in 2 oz. containers. At
    $5 per 2 oz. container for my six color printer I spend $30 for 2 oz. each.
    That plus shipping is roughly equivalent to your purchase of three costco
    OEM carts plus tax. An OEM cart has about 13 ml. of ink, but not all of it
    is useable as you are warned to replace the cart before it totally runs out
    of ink to protect your print head. A 2 oz. bottle of ink will give the
    equivalent of five or more OEM cartridges. You are good at math - for my
    $36 (the retail cost of three carts) I get the equivalent of more than 30
    new carts, or an equivalent value of about $360 retail. For your $29
    (estimating tax) you get ---uh---three carts for the equivalent value of
    $36 retail.

    You may now correctly reply that there is some labor involved and that is
    worth something. Lets follow the labor expended. I buy the product on
    line. Time expended is five minutes. Refilling each cart is less than five
    minutes, including cleanup. Two and one-half hours max total. No extra
    cash expended and actual cash flow of $36.

    If you buy one set of carts at a time at costco (low volume user as you've
    mentioned several times) you will have made 10 trips to buy a set of three
    carts at a time. The Costco I go to is a 20 to 30 minute drive, depending
    on traffic so this represents at least an hour per trip plus shopping time.
    Of course, while I am there I can also buy the little five pound jar of
    jelly-bellies, the small gallon size of olive oil, etc. If your Costco is
    as busy as ours with customers buying enough food and paper goods to stock a
    month cruise on the Queen Mary, you will endure a reasonably long wait at
    the register to save your $9 per three cart package, while I can sit
    comfortably at my desk and do the three refills in about ten minutes total
    for a savings of $33 as compared to buying retail carts. Oh, I forgot that
    at almost $3 per gallon you will have burned a few dollars worth of gas on
    each trip to offset your savings. Since you have an MBA you are
    sufficiently savvy to weigh the investment and inventory issues of buying
    all carts at once to save shipping and handling (your trip to Costco in your
    no-maintenance-required, never-needs-to-be-repaired Acura) vs. making more
    trips, keeping less inventory on hand, and keeping your cash flow lower.
    One trip to buy all of them - up front cash outlay of $270 plus tax and the
    cost of one trip in time and gas. Ten trips to buy one set of three on each
    trip - $270 cash outlay over several months plus the cost of ten trips in
    time and gas. Now please don't forget that when you replace a cart you have
    to open the package, pop the little orange seal, remove the tape, remove the
    old cart, and replace it with the new one. Even you don't move at the speed
    of light, much less sound. That's at least two minutes if you keep the carts
    right next to the printer. I remove the cart, refill it, and replace it in
    about five minutes.

    Kidding aside, you will spend the time and gas money going to the store for
    one to ten trips to buy (at retail or otherwise) the product while I can sit
    at my desk during a printing session and spend no more time, total, to
    refill my carts. I just purchased my second set of MIS 2 oz. bottles of
    ink. In the almost one year of use on my I960 printer I have saved about
    $325 in ink cost with prints you can not distinguish from OEM prints and
    with no printer problems. Costco doesn't carry all the colors of the six
    color printer, but if they did, buying my carts at Costco would have saved
    me about $90 instead for the same amount of printing. I saved myself the
    cost of two of my printers so far, instead of less than the cost of one of
    yours. Of course, both of us have to go there to stock up on Kirkland
    paper, the one you and I love to use, so that may skew the time element a
    bit in your direction, but you can't refute the basic premise, even if you
    can weasel a bit on a few pennies one way or another.

    >>Still cheaper per cart than the list price, but you need to buy three of a
    >>color to save about $2 per cart.
    > INCORRECT AGAIN. Costco sells a 3 pack of color. One each of the primary
    > colors. These usually run out within weeks of each other. You are
    > actually purchasing one cart per color in the packaged. With the dye
    > black there are 3.

    Your epithet, "incorrect again", implies that most of my posts are
    incorrect? I suppose, in contradistinction to your "always correct" posts.
    I'll leave that conclusion up to the others who participate on this NG.
    >
    >> To effect this savings on your five color printer you will need to spend
    >> $155 to purchase all the colors needed for replacement at any given time.
    >
    > All of the colors do not go at one time.

    Never said they did. I said "purchase all the colors," not change all the
    colors, at any given time. About your misinterpreting my post I should
    really refrain from saying to you, "incorrect again."

    In the 8 months I have had my
    > printer I replaced all of the colors one time. Both blacks have not been
    > replaced. The price was about $27.00 for the colors. I have not even
    > received low warnings on the blacks.
    >
    >>Effective savings is about $30. No criticism intended. Just stating the
    >>facts on savings via Costco OEM Canon carts.
    >>
    >>
  24. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    There are many brands of cartridges out there of which Arrow, Rainbow, and
    Accujet are a few. These are made by factories, probably mostly in China
    where I suspect that the OEM carts are made as well. Some are also filled
    with inks that have been identified by vendors by brand. I would not
    comment on which carts are suitable as I have only refilled using OEM and
    MIS empty carts. Both work well with bulk inks from MIS.

    By saying that "There are people who like a pain in the ass" with respect
    to refilling, you again use a pejoritive term as a semantic device to
    convince people of your subjective opinion. A more accurate statement might
    be that you wouldn't enjoy the hands-on involvement of refilling carts, and
    you would prefer the simpler approach of buying and installing either the
    OEM cart or possibly an aftermarket cart if you were convinced that it would
    give equal performance and not harm your printer. That with full knowledge
    that you are trading off convenience for some savings in cost. I believe
    that would accurately state your opinion without second guessing and, at the
    same time, criticizing others who don't mind refilling. It seems to me that
    your abraisive and confrontative approach lessens your credability. More
    civility is often more convincing.

    "measekite" <measekite@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    news:r54he.2044$3%4.1088@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...
    >
    >
    > Arthur Entlich wrote:
    >
    >> But that's not the issue.
    >>
    >> Although I do refill some cartridges, I also recognize there are more
    >> perils involved. There is a risk of contamination during the refill
    >> process from environmental contaminants or from changes within the ink
    >> cartridge (dried inks, incompatibility between inks, foam breakdown,
    >> build up of ink foaming, air bubbles trapped, etc) and the ink, which may
    >> have been exposed to excessive oxygen and oxidized, over-evaporated
    >> fluids or solvents, etc.. The ink cartridge which are virgin are
    >> manufactured typically in a very hygienic and professionally managed
    >> situation, and the cartridge is fresh when filled. There are many less
    >> variables involved in a factory filled cartridge.
    >
    >
    > And for a few dollars more you avoid the pain in the ass (for some) There
    > are people who like a pain in the ass. If my print load ever gets to a
    > point that I no longer want to pay for OEM ink my first step would be to
    > researched prefilled carts.
    >
    > Also with all of the talk about BRANDS of ink I have not read much here on
    > BRANDS of cartridges. Who makes them and what ones are good and what ones
    > are poor.
    >
    >>
    >>
    >> Art
    >>
    >>
    >> measekite wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> Arthur Entlich wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> Ink refillers, who take your cartridge and re"charge" it, are a
    >>>> different breed of ink vendor than 3rd party ink sellers, in general,
    >>>> although some do both.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> They may target a different audience but they get their raw materials
    >>> from the same places the "aftermarket" vendors get theirs from.
    >>>
    >>>>
    >>>> I have seen some major problems with refilling, although I am not sure
    >>>> it all can fall on the shoulders of the refillers themselves. The
    >>>> cartridges may be quite old, may have numerous formulations of ink
    >>>> passing through they or mixed within them. They may be incorrectly
    >>>> refilled, etc.
    >>>>
    >>>> I'm sure many are fine, but for accurate and repeatable color, OEM or
    >>>> pre-packaged 3rd party are probably best.
    >>>>
    >>>> Art
    >>>>
    >>>> wazzad wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>> Measekite I purchased my ink refill cartridges from one of the
    >>>>> supposedly
    >>>>> better ink cartridge refiller franchise stores. My bad experience with
    >>>>> the
    >>>>> colour reproduction was enough to make me dip into my pockets for the
    >>>>> genuine canon ink cartridges and throw the ink refill cartridges in
    >>>>> the bin,
    >>>>> where they belonged. Over here in Australia there are many ink
    >>>>> refillers,
    >>>>> but my experiences have not been any good with any of them. Hope this
    >>>>> helps.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Cheers mate
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Ron from Downunder.
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>> "measekite" <measekite@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    >>>>> news:tuzge.15583$J12.12859@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com...
    >>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> wazzad wrote:
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>> All I can say Sarah is that I have recently purchased the iP 8500
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>> printer.
    >>>>>
    >>>>>>> It is a superb printer. I frequently print A4 size landscape
    >>>>>>> photographs
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>> from my digital camera and scanned 35mm slides. The resulting A4
    >>>>>>> prints
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>> are
    >>>>>
    >>>>>>> better than what you would get from quickie type film printing
    >>>>>>> services.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>> It
    >>>>>
    >>>>>>> paid for itself from developing all our relative's digital photos
    >>>>>>> from
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>> our
    >>>>>
    >>>>>>> daughter's recent wedding. You will have no regrets purchasing the
    >>>>>>> iP
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>> 8500.
    >>>>>
    >>>>>>> P.S. Be careful buying non canon ink refills. I did that and the
    >>>>>>> results
    >>>>>>> were aweful. I isolated the problem down to the photo cyan and photo
    >>>>>>> magnenta non canon ink cartridges.
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> Where did you get the bad aftermarket ink from?
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>> Hope this helps you in your choice.
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> Cheers
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> Ron from Downunder.
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> "Sarah Feliz" <sfeliz@nada.com> wrote in message
    >>>>>>> news:BEA7B140.32D4%sfeliz@nada.com...
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>> Since I'm testing the iP5000 -- and reading up on the later
    >>>>>>>> models --
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>> I'm
    >>>>>
    >>>>>>>> thinking: maybe I should get the iP8500? Is it the top of the line
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Pixma?
    >>>>>
    >>>>>>>> Is it better than the iP5000? If so, in what way, or in which
    >>>>>>>> specific
    >>>>>>>> areas? Worth getting instead of the iP5000? Any downsides?
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>> Many thanks for your input
    >>>>>>>> Sarah
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
  25. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    Burt, the figures you quote are on the conservative side and potential
    savings could really be higher, so there is no way you could be accused of
    exaggerating the savings. The following is a copy of a posting I did in July
    2003 regarding ink costs. A google search on my name, refilling and 1.2¢
    will bring up numerous references to it, including Nifty-Stuff.com. The
    difference between then and now is the addition of the iP4000 and that I now
    purchase 8oz bottles vs. 16oz. The per ounce cost difference is minimal.
    Otherwise what was originally posted remains in effect.
    ==============================
    Actually your cost estimate may be a little on the high side, but by all
    means it is vastly better than OEM ink prices or even the cost of third
    party tanks. I have an s820 which has 6 tanks vs. the 4 in an i850. Both the
    s820 and the i950 use the same BCI-6 tanks. BCI-3 as in the i850 and BCI-6
    tanks are identical in size and capacity. The only difference is ink
    formulations which are different for the two types of printers. Both the
    supplier you reference and the one I use appear to use bulk ink from
    Formulabs which is one of, if not, the best maker of inks. Because I
    purchased my ink in 1 pint bottles (480 cc's) that works out to 2880 cc's
    for a set of six bottles. I can usually print about 40 full coverage 8.5 x
    11 sheets before needing to refill when the first low ink warning pops up.
    At that time I install my entire #2 set of cartridges and then refill the
    entire set #1. Two of the cartridges will usually take 5cc's to top off the
    ink reservoir, 3 will take 3 cc's and one takes 2 cc's. This is a total
    consumption of 21 cc's. I paid less than $70 U.S. incl shipping for the six
    pints which works out to about 50¢ per refilling session after printing 40
    sheets. My net cost is approx. 1.2¢ per sheet. Ink purchased in smaller
    quantities will cost more per ounce, but by any estimate it is a great cost
    savings. I do a very large amount of printing and have easily saved the cost
    of several printers since the first of the year. The i950 should be
    equivalent in consumption to the s820, so the original poster can easily get
    an idea that even buying some of the most expensive bulk refill inks, his
    costs per page will be extremely low. I know he was asking for comparisons
    on Canon and Epson models, but because of my total satisfaction with Canon,
    I won't even consider any other inkjet.
    ==============================
    --
    Ron Cohen
    "Burt" <sfbjgNOSPAM@pacbell.net> wrote in message
    news:NY4he.2225$Y81.764@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...
    >
    > "measekite" <measekite@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    > news:Qz3he.2034$3%4.597@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>The USA price for a new Canon OEM BCI6 cart at Costco is $9.00. I do
    >>>>not know what that translates to in Aussie dollars.>(snip)
    >>>
    >>>As I recall, you can not buy one at a time but must buy them in packs of
    >>>three with a cost of $31 per three pack. A bit more than $10 apiece plus
    >>>tax.
    >> No Shipping. You do not buy 1 ounce of ink at a time either.
    >
    > Incredibly, as usual you are right again! Let me explain some simple
    > math. I am a low volume user of bulk inks so I buy them in 2 oz.
    > containers. At $5 per 2 oz. container for my six color printer I spend
    > $30 for 2 oz. each. That plus shipping is roughly equivalent to your
    > purchase of three costco OEM carts plus tax. An OEM cart has about 13 ml.
    > of ink, but not all of it is useable as you are warned to replace the cart
    > before it totally runs out of ink to protect your print head. A 2 oz.
    > bottle of ink will give the equivalent of five or more OEM cartridges.
    > You are good at math - for my $36 (the retail cost of three carts) I get
    > the equivalent of more than 30 new carts, or an equivalent value of about
    > $360 retail. For your $29 (estimating tax) you get ---uh---three carts for
    > the equivalent value of $36 retail.
    >
    > You may now correctly reply that there is some labor involved and that is
    > worth something. Lets follow the labor expended. I buy the product on
    > line. Time expended is five minutes. Refilling each cart is less than
    > five minutes, including cleanup. Two and one-half hours max total. No
    > extra cash expended and actual cash flow of $36.
    >
    > If you buy one set of carts at a time at costco (low volume user as you've
    > mentioned several times) you will have made 10 trips to buy a set of three
    > carts at a time. The Costco I go to is a 20 to 30 minute drive, depending
    > on traffic so this represents at least an hour per trip plus shopping
    > time. Of course, while I am there I can also buy the little five pound jar
    > of jelly-bellies, the small gallon size of olive oil, etc. If your Costco
    > is as busy as ours with customers buying enough food and paper goods to
    > stock a month cruise on the Queen Mary, you will endure a reasonably long
    > wait at the register to save your $9 per three cart package, while I can
    > sit comfortably at my desk and do the three refills in about ten minutes
    > total for a savings of $33 as compared to buying retail carts. Oh, I
    > forgot that at almost $3 per gallon you will have burned a few dollars
    > worth of gas on each trip to offset your savings. Since you have an MBA
    > you are sufficiently savvy to weigh the investment and inventory issues of
    > buying all carts at once to save shipping and handling (your trip to
    > Costco in your no-maintenance-required, never-needs-to-be-repaired Acura)
    > vs. making more trips, keeping less inventory on hand, and keeping your
    > cash flow lower. One trip to buy all of them - up front cash outlay of
    > $270 plus tax and the cost of one trip in time and gas. Ten trips to buy
    > one set of three on each trip - $270 cash outlay over several months plus
    > the cost of ten trips in time and gas. Now please don't forget that when
    > you replace a cart you have to open the package, pop the little orange
    > seal, remove the tape, remove the old cart, and replace it with the new
    > one. Even you don't move at the speed of light, much less sound. That's
    > at least two minutes if you keep the carts right next to the printer. I
    > remove the cart, refill it, and replace it in about five minutes.
    >
    > Kidding aside, you will spend the time and gas money going to the store
    > for one to ten trips to buy (at retail or otherwise) the product while I
    > can sit at my desk during a printing session and spend no more time,
    > total, to refill my carts. I just purchased my second set of MIS 2 oz.
    > bottles of ink. In the almost one year of use on my I960 printer I have
    > saved about $325 in ink cost with prints you can not distinguish from OEM
    > prints and with no printer problems. Costco doesn't carry all the colors
    > of the six color printer, but if they did, buying my carts at Costco would
    > have saved me about $90 instead for the same amount of printing. I saved
    > myself the cost of two of my printers so far, instead of less than the
    > cost of one of yours. Of course, both of us have to go there to stock up
    > on Kirkland paper, the one you and I love to use, so that may skew the
    > time element a bit in your direction, but you can't refute the basic
    > premise, even if you can weasel a bit on a few pennies one way or another.
    >
    >>>Still cheaper per cart than the list price, but you need to buy three of
    >>>a color to save about $2 per cart.
    >> INCORRECT AGAIN. Costco sells a 3 pack of color. One each of the
    >> primary colors. These usually run out within weeks of each other. You
    >> are actually purchasing one cart per color in the packaged. With the dye
    >> black there are 3.
    >
    > Your epithet, "incorrect again", implies that most of my posts are
    > incorrect? I suppose, in contradistinction to your "always correct"
    > posts. I'll leave that conclusion up to the others who participate on this
    > NG.
    >>
    >>> To effect this savings on your five color printer you will need to spend
    >>> $155 to purchase all the colors needed for replacement at any given
    >>> time.
    >>
    >> All of the colors do not go at one time.
    >
    > Never said they did. I said "purchase all the colors," not change all the
    > colors, at any given time. About your misinterpreting my post I should
    > really refrain from saying to you, "incorrect again."
    >
    > In the 8 months I have had my
    >> printer I replaced all of the colors one time. Both blacks have not been
    >> replaced. The price was about $27.00 for the colors. I have not even
    >> received low warnings on the blacks.
    >>
    >>>Effective savings is about $30. No criticism intended. Just stating the
    >>>facts on savings via Costco OEM Canon carts.
    >>>
    >>>
    >
    >
  26. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    This is just a 'me too' to your comments. I refill OEM, Rainbow, USA and
    Arrow cartridges - all successfully. The procedure involves nothing more
    than putting a cap or seal on the ink outlet, making an opening in the
    reservoir for a syringe, injecting ink and sealing the opening. There are a
    variety of methods to making the opening and resealing. It's more a matter
    of personal choice than if one method is superior or not. If it works, then
    it's correct. I have no idea how long a cartridge will last if not allowed
    to dry out between fill ups since I'm still refilling the OEM cartridges
    that came with my first s820 and that is about three years ago. When our
    friend talks about people who like a PITA with respect to refilling, I get
    amused. It's so quick and easy (and not messy) to accomplish. To me the real
    PITA would be forking over $9.00 or more plus sales tax for a new OEM
    cartridge every time one ran out.

    "Burt" <sfbjgNOSPAM@pacbell.net> wrote in message
    news:bL5he.2260$Y81.1080@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...
    > There are many brands of cartridges out there of which Arrow, Rainbow, and
    > Accujet are a few. These are made by factories, probably mostly in China
    > where I suspect that the OEM carts are made as well. Some are also filled
    > with inks that have been identified by vendors by brand. I would not
    > comment on which carts are suitable as I have only refilled using OEM and
    > MIS empty carts. Both work well with bulk inks from MIS.
    >
    > By saying that "There are people who like a pain in the ass" with respect
    > to refilling, you again use a pejoritive term as a semantic device to
    > convince people of your subjective opinion. A more accurate statement
    > might be that you wouldn't enjoy the hands-on involvement of refilling
    > carts, and you would prefer the simpler approach of buying and installing
    > either the OEM cart or possibly an aftermarket cart if you were convinced
    > that it would give equal performance and not harm your printer. That with
    > full knowledge that you are trading off convenience for some savings in
    > cost. I believe that would accurately state your opinion without second
    > guessing and, at the same time, criticizing others who don't mind
    > refilling. It seems to me that your abraisive and confrontative approach
    > lessens your credability. More civility is often more convincing.
    >
    >
    snipped
  27. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    Doesn't take an MBA to figure this one out!

    "Ron Cohen" <drc023@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
    news:6A9he.1617$aM4.848@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com...
    > Burt, the figures you quote are on the conservative side and potential
    > savings could really be higher, so there is no way you could be accused of
    > exaggerating the savings. The following is a copy of a posting I did in
    > July 2003 regarding ink costs. A google search on my name, refilling and
    > 1.2¢ will bring up numerous references to it, including Nifty-Stuff.com.
    > The difference between then and now is the addition of the iP4000 and that
    > I now purchase 8oz bottles vs. 16oz. The per ounce cost difference is
    > minimal. Otherwise what was originally posted remains in effect.
    > ==============================
    > Actually your cost estimate may be a little on the high side, but by all
    > means it is vastly better than OEM ink prices or even the cost of third
    > party tanks. I have an s820 which has 6 tanks vs. the 4 in an i850. Both
    > the
    > s820 and the i950 use the same BCI-6 tanks. BCI-3 as in the i850 and BCI-6
    > tanks are identical in size and capacity. The only difference is ink
    > formulations which are different for the two types of printers. Both the
    > supplier you reference and the one I use appear to use bulk ink from
    > Formulabs which is one of, if not, the best maker of inks. Because I
    > purchased my ink in 1 pint bottles (480 cc's) that works out to 2880 cc's
    > for a set of six bottles. I can usually print about 40 full coverage 8.5 x
    > 11 sheets before needing to refill when the first low ink warning pops up.
    > At that time I install my entire #2 set of cartridges and then refill the
    > entire set #1. Two of the cartridges will usually take 5cc's to top off
    > the
    > ink reservoir, 3 will take 3 cc's and one takes 2 cc's. This is a total
    > consumption of 21 cc's. I paid less than $70 U.S. incl shipping for the
    > six
    > pints which works out to about 50¢ per refilling session after printing 40
    > sheets. My net cost is approx. 1.2¢ per sheet. Ink purchased in smaller
    > quantities will cost more per ounce, but by any estimate it is a great
    > cost
    > savings. I do a very large amount of printing and have easily saved the
    > cost
    > of several printers since the first of the year. The i950 should be
    > equivalent in consumption to the s820, so the original poster can easily
    > get
    > an idea that even buying some of the most expensive bulk refill inks, his
    > costs per page will be extremely low. I know he was asking for comparisons
    > on Canon and Epson models, but because of my total satisfaction with
    > Canon,
    > I won't even consider any other inkjet.
    > ==============================
    > --
    > Ron Cohen
    > "Burt" <sfbjgNOSPAM@pacbell.net> wrote in message
    > news:NY4he.2225$Y81.764@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...
    >>
    >> "measekite" <measekite@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    >> news:Qz3he.2034$3%4.597@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>The USA price for a new Canon OEM BCI6 cart at Costco is $9.00. I do
    >>>>>not know what that translates to in Aussie dollars.>(snip)
    >>>>
    >>>>As I recall, you can not buy one at a time but must buy them in packs
    >>>>of three with a cost of $31 per three pack. A bit more than $10 apiece
    >>>>plus tax.
    >>> No Shipping. You do not buy 1 ounce of ink at a time either.
    >>
    >> Incredibly, as usual you are right again! Let me explain some simple
    >> math. I am a low volume user of bulk inks so I buy them in 2 oz.
    >> containers. At $5 per 2 oz. container for my six color printer I spend
    >> $30 for 2 oz. each. That plus shipping is roughly equivalent to your
    >> purchase of three costco OEM carts plus tax. An OEM cart has about 13
    >> ml. of ink, but not all of it is useable as you are warned to replace the
    >> cart before it totally runs out of ink to protect your print head. A 2
    >> oz. bottle of ink will give the equivalent of five or more OEM
    >> cartridges. You are good at math - for my $36 (the retail cost of three
    >> carts) I get the equivalent of more than 30 new carts, or an equivalent
    >> value of about $360 retail. For your $29 (estimating tax) you
    >> get ---uh---three carts for the equivalent value of $36 retail.
    >>
    >> You may now correctly reply that there is some labor involved and that is
    >> worth something. Lets follow the labor expended. I buy the product on
    >> line. Time expended is five minutes. Refilling each cart is less than
    >> five minutes, including cleanup. Two and one-half hours max total. No
    >> extra cash expended and actual cash flow of $36.
    >>
    >> If you buy one set of carts at a time at costco (low volume user as
    >> you've mentioned several times) you will have made 10 trips to buy a set
    >> of three carts at a time. The Costco I go to is a 20 to 30 minute drive,
    >> depending on traffic so this represents at least an hour per trip plus
    >> shopping time. Of course, while I am there I can also buy the little five
    >> pound jar of jelly-bellies, the small gallon size of olive oil, etc. If
    >> your Costco is as busy as ours with customers buying enough food and
    >> paper goods to stock a month cruise on the Queen Mary, you will endure a
    >> reasonably long wait at the register to save your $9 per three cart
    >> package, while I can sit comfortably at my desk and do the three refills
    >> in about ten minutes total for a savings of $33 as compared to buying
    >> retail carts. Oh, I forgot that at almost $3 per gallon you will have
    >> burned a few dollars worth of gas on each trip to offset your savings.
    >> Since you have an MBA you are sufficiently savvy to weigh the investment
    >> and inventory issues of buying all carts at once to save shipping and
    >> handling (your trip to Costco in your no-maintenance-required,
    >> never-needs-to-be-repaired Acura) vs. making more trips, keeping less
    >> inventory on hand, and keeping your cash flow lower. One trip to buy all
    >> of them - up front cash outlay of $270 plus tax and the cost of one trip
    >> in time and gas. Ten trips to buy one set of three on each trip - $270
    >> cash outlay over several months plus the cost of ten trips in time and
    >> gas. Now please don't forget that when you replace a cart you have to
    >> open the package, pop the little orange seal, remove the tape, remove the
    >> old cart, and replace it with the new one. Even you don't move at the
    >> speed of light, much less sound. That's at least two minutes if you keep
    >> the carts right next to the printer. I remove the cart, refill it, and
    >> replace it in about five minutes.
    >>
    >> Kidding aside, you will spend the time and gas money going to the store
    >> for one to ten trips to buy (at retail or otherwise) the product while I
    >> can sit at my desk during a printing session and spend no more time,
    >> total, to refill my carts. I just purchased my second set of MIS 2 oz.
    >> bottles of ink. In the almost one year of use on my I960 printer I have
    >> saved about $325 in ink cost with prints you can not distinguish from OEM
    >> prints and with no printer problems. Costco doesn't carry all the colors
    >> of the six color printer, but if they did, buying my carts at Costco
    >> would have saved me about $90 instead for the same amount of printing. I
    >> saved myself the cost of two of my printers so far, instead of less than
    >> the cost of one of yours. Of course, both of us have to go there to
    >> stock up on Kirkland paper, the one you and I love to use, so that may
    >> skew the time element a bit in your direction, but you can't refute the
    >> basic premise, even if you can weasel a bit on a few pennies one way or
    >> another.
    >>
    >>>>Still cheaper per cart than the list price, but you need to buy three of
    >>>>a color to save about $2 per cart.
    >>> INCORRECT AGAIN. Costco sells a 3 pack of color. One each of the
    >>> primary colors. These usually run out within weeks of each other. You
    >>> are actually purchasing one cart per color in the packaged. With the
    >>> dye black there are 3.
    >>
    >> Your epithet, "incorrect again", implies that most of my posts are
    >> incorrect? I suppose, in contradistinction to your "always correct"
    >> posts. I'll leave that conclusion up to the others who participate on
    >> this NG.
    >>>
    >>>> To effect this savings on your five color printer you will need to
    >>>> spend $155 to purchase all the colors needed for replacement at any
    >>>> given time.
    >>>
    >>> All of the colors do not go at one time.
    >>
    >> Never said they did. I said "purchase all the colors," not change all
    >> the colors, at any given time. About your misinterpreting my post I
    >> should really refrain from saying to you, "incorrect again."
    >>
    >> In the 8 months I have had my
    >>> printer I replaced all of the colors one time. Both blacks have not
    >>> been replaced. The price was about $27.00 for the colors. I have not
    >>> even received low warnings on the blacks.
    >>>
    >>>>Effective savings is about $30. No criticism intended. Just stating
    >>>>the facts on savings via Costco OEM Canon carts.
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>
    >>
    >
    >
  28. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    Burt wrote:

    >"measekite" <measekite@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    >news:Qz3he.2034$3%4.597@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...
    >
    >
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>The USA price for a new Canon OEM BCI6 cart at Costco is $9.00. I do not
    >>>>know what that translates to in Aussie dollars.>(snip)
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>As I recall, you can not buy one at a time but must buy them in packs of
    >>>three with a cost of $31 per three pack. A bit more than $10 apiece plus
    >>>tax.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>No Shipping. You do not buy 1 ounce of ink at a time either.
    >>
    >>
    >
    >Incredibly, as usual you are right again! Let me explain some simple math.
    >I am a low volume user of bulk inks so I buy them in 2 oz. containers. At
    >$5 per 2 oz. container for my six color printer I spend $30 for 2 oz. each.
    >That plus shipping is roughly equivalent to your purchase of three costco
    >OEM carts plus tax. An OEM cart has about 13 ml. of ink, but not all of it
    >is useable as you are warned to replace the cart before it totally runs out
    >of ink to protect your print head. A 2 oz. bottle of ink will give the
    >equivalent of five or more OEM cartridges. You are good at math - for my
    >$36 (the retail cost of three carts) I get the equivalent of more than 30
    >new carts, or an equivalent value of about $360 retail. For your $29
    >(estimating tax) you get ---uh---three carts for the equivalent value of
    >$36 retail.
    >
    >You may now correctly reply that there is some labor involved and that is
    >worth something. Lets follow the labor expended. I buy the product on
    >line. Time expended is five minutes. Refilling each cart is less than five
    >minutes, including cleanup. Two and one-half hours max total. No extra
    >cash expended and actual cash flow of $36.
    >
    >If you buy one set of carts at a time at costco (low volume user as you've
    >mentioned several times) you will have made 10 trips to buy a set of three
    >carts at a time. The Costco I go to is a 20 to 30 minute drive, depending
    >on traffic so this represents at least an hour per trip plus shopping time.
    >Of course, while I am there I can also buy the little five pound jar of
    >jelly-bellies, the small gallon size of olive oil, etc. If your Costco is
    >as busy as ours with customers buying enough food and paper goods to stock a
    >month cruise on the Queen Mary, you will endure a reasonably long wait at
    >the register to save your $9 per three cart package, while I can sit
    >comfortably at my desk and do the three refills in about ten minutes total
    >for a savings of $33 as compared to buying retail carts. Oh, I forgot that
    >at almost $3 per gallon you will have burned a few dollars worth of gas on
    >each trip to offset your savings. Since you have an MBA you are
    >sufficiently savvy to weigh the investment and inventory issues of buying
    >all carts at once to save shipping and handling (your trip to Costco in your
    >no-maintenance-required, never-needs-to-be-repaired Acura) vs. making more
    >trips, keeping less inventory on hand, and keeping your cash flow lower.
    >One trip to buy all of them - up front cash outlay of $270 plus tax and the
    >cost of one trip in time and gas. Ten trips to buy one set of three on each
    >trip - $270 cash outlay over several months plus the cost of ten trips in
    >time and gas. Now please don't forget that when you replace a cart you have
    >to open the package, pop the little orange seal, remove the tape, remove the
    >old cart, and replace it with the new one. Even you don't move at the speed
    >of light, much less sound. That's at least two minutes if you keep the carts
    >right next to the printer. I remove the cart, refill it, and replace it in
    >about five minutes.
    >
    >Kidding aside, you will spend the time and gas money going to the store for
    >one to ten trips to buy (at retail or otherwise) the product while I can sit
    >at my desk during a printing session and spend no more time, total, to
    >refill my carts. I just purchased my second set of MIS 2 oz. bottles of
    >ink. In the almost one year of use on my I960 printer I have saved about
    >$325 in ink cost with prints you can not distinguish from OEM prints and
    >with no printer problems. Costco doesn't carry all the colors of the six
    >color printer, but if they did, buying my carts at Costco would have saved
    >me about $90 instead for the same amount of printing. I saved myself the
    >cost of two of my printers so far, instead of less than the cost of one of
    >yours. Of course, both of us have to go there to stock up on Kirkland
    >paper, the one you and I love to use, so that may skew the time element a
    >bit in your direction, but you can't refute the basic premise, even if you
    >can weasel a bit on a few pennies one way or another.
    >
    >
    >
    >>>Still cheaper per cart than the list price, but you need to buy three of a
    >>>color to save about $2 per cart.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>INCORRECT AGAIN. Costco sells a 3 pack of color. One each of the primary
    >>colors. These usually run out within weeks of each other. You are
    >>actually purchasing one cart per color in the packaged. With the dye
    >>black there are 3.
    >>
    >>
    >
    >Your epithet, "incorrect again", implies that most of my posts are
    >incorrect? I suppose, in contradistinction to your "always correct" posts.
    >I'll leave that conclusion up to the others who participate on this NG.
    >
    >
    >>>To effect this savings on your five color printer you will need to spend
    >>>$155 to purchase all the colors needed for replacement at any given time.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>All of the colors do not go at one time.
    >>
    >>
    >
    >Never said they did. I said "purchase all the colors," not change all the
    >colors, at any given time. About your misinterpreting my post I should
    >really refrain from saying to you, "incorrect again."
    >
    >In the 8 months I have had my
    >
    >
    >>printer I replaced all of the colors one time. Both blacks have not been
    >>replaced. The price was about $27.00 for the colors. I have not even
    >>received low warnings on the blacks.
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>>Effective savings is about $30. No criticism intended. Just stating the
    >>>facts on savings via Costco OEM Canon carts.
    >>>
    >>>


    I am in Costco on a regular basis for a lot of things, probably every 2
    weeks. No extra expense for me to pick up any ink I need. I never said
    that webstore labeled ink costs more. Of course it costs less. Even
    prefilled carts cost less. If I had a high enough print load I would
    research who the real mfg of prefilled ink carts are and find a way to
    deal with them. But at my present rate of consumption I am choosing not
    to risk any problems with my printer.

    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >
    >
    >
    >
  29. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    (snip)

    > I am in Costco on a regular basis for a lot of things, probably every 2
    > weeks. No extra expense for me to pick up any ink I need. I never said
    > that webstore labeled ink costs more. Of course it costs less. Even
    > prefilled carts cost less. If I had a high enough print load I would
    > research who the real mfg of prefilled ink carts are and find a way to
    > deal with them. But at my present rate of consumption I am choosing not
    > to risk any problems with my printer.

    The good news is that Alotofthings now has a well set up web site and you
    can buy genuine formulabs inks and prefilled arrow carts with formulabs inks
    from them directly. As you have pointed out, you dislike a two-tiered
    pricing system with their ebay prices lower and you do not wish to use ebay
    for purchases. During my school years I worked for a family member in a
    plumbing and electrical supply firm. It is typical for such firms to have
    multi-tiered pricing depending on a variety of criteria - volume of
    purchases, contractor or private party, etc. In addition, profit margins
    were calculated much lower when items were drop-shipped and no handling by
    our firm occurred. The ebay model of selling is probably less costly than
    the direct web-based sale and qualifies for a lower markup. There are
    brick-and-mortar firms that also have catalog sales that have lower
    prices/markups. This is not unusual in some retail and in mixed
    retail/wholesale firms. The prefilled arrow carts have been used
    successfully and refilled by Ron Cohen who posts on this NG. There was one
    report on another forum of the need to open the fill hole (sealed with a
    removable plastic plug to facilitate refilling) and then replace it after
    letting air into the cart before use, but Ron has not reported any such
    problem. Ron has not had any problems at all using formulabs inks and I
    have the same experience refilling with MIS inks. When your volume
    increases I would be glad to give you any information that would help you in
    deciding which carts or bulk inks to use. Again, I know from your previous
    posts that you are not a "hands-on" person when dealing with refilling,
    checking the oil or water levels in your car, etc. Some people are, and
    some people aren't. If you were I wouldn't be reluctant to advise using
    formulabs bulk inks in OEM carts as the way to satisfy your brand concerns
    and assure success. I have been happy with the MIS inks, but you are
    reluctant as you don't know the mfgr of their inks. I think we can
    understand and respect each others' approach to this issue without
    disdainful comments or rancorous dialogue.
  30. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    Ron Cohen wrote:

    >This is just a 'me too' to your comments. I refill OEM, Rainbow, USA and
    >Arrow cartridges - all successfully.
    >

    Are these actually manufacturer BRANDS that are sold in a variety of
    places or are they webstore LABELS?

    So what is the difference between those 3 empty carts?

    >The procedure involves nothing more
    >than putting a cap or seal on the ink outlet, making an opening in the
    >reservoir for a syringe,
    >

    Isn't there already an opening?

    >injecting ink and sealing the opening. There are a
    >variety of methods to making the opening and resealing.
    >

    Isn't there a plug or screw?

    >It's more a matter
    >of personal choice than if one method is superior or not. If it works, then
    >it's correct. I have no idea how long a cartridge will last if not allowed
    >to dry out between fill ups since I'm still refilling the OEM cartridges
    >that came with my first s820 and that is about three years ago. When our
    >friend talks about people who like a PITA with respect to refilling, I get
    >amused. It's so quick and easy (and not messy) to accomplish. To me the real
    >PITA would be forking over $9.00 or more plus sales tax for a new OEM
    >cartridge every time one ran out.
    >
    >
    >

    The printer is built for OEM carts and that ink is designed for the printer.

    >"Burt" <sfbjgNOSPAM@pacbell.net> wrote in message
    >news:bL5he.2260$Y81.1080@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...
    >
    >
    >>There are many brands of cartridges out there of which Arrow, Rainbow, and
    >>Accujet are a few. These are made by factories, probably mostly in China
    >>where I suspect that the OEM carts are made as well. Some are also filled
    >>with inks that have been identified by vendors by brand. I would not
    >>comment on which carts are suitable as I have only refilled using OEM and
    >>MIS empty carts. Both work well with bulk inks from MIS.
    >>
    >>By saying that "There are people who like a pain in the ass" with respect
    >>to refilling, you again use a pejoritive term as a semantic device to
    >>convince people of your subjective opinion. A more accurate statement
    >>might be that you wouldn't enjoy the hands-on involvement of refilling
    >>carts, and you would prefer the simpler approach of buying and installing
    >>either the OEM cart or possibly an aftermarket cart if you were convinced
    >>that it would give equal performance and not harm your printer. That with
    >>full knowledge that you are trading off convenience for some savings in
    >>cost. I believe that would accurately state your opinion without second
    >>guessing and, at the same time, criticizing others who don't mind
    >>refilling. It seems to me that your abraisive and confrontative approach
    >>lessens your credability. More civility is often more convincing.
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >snipped
    >
    >
    >
    >
  31. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    Firstly, it can be much more than "a few dollars more", it can be orders
    of magnitude differences, secondly, some people fine refilinmg easy, if
    they have worked out the methods. Lastly, for hardcore users, they feel
    having inexpensive inks for frees them financially and creatively from
    not having to worry about the amount of ink costs a print might have used.

    Art

    measekite wrote:

    >
    >
    > Arthur Entlich wrote:
    >
    >> But that's not the issue.
    >>
    >> Although I do refill some cartridges, I also recognize there are more
    >> perils involved. There is a risk of contamination during the refill
    >> process from environmental contaminants or from changes within the ink
    >> cartridge (dried inks, incompatibility between inks, foam breakdown,
    >> build up of ink foaming, air bubbles trapped, etc) and the ink, which
    >> may have been exposed to excessive oxygen and oxidized,
    >> over-evaporated fluids or solvents, etc.. The ink cartridge which are
    >> virgin are manufactured typically in a very hygienic and
    >> professionally managed situation, and the cartridge is fresh when
    >> filled. There are many less variables involved in a factory filled
    >> cartridge.
    >
    >
    >
    > And for a few dollars more you avoid the pain in the ass (for some)
    > There are people who like a pain in the ass. If my print load ever gets
    > to a point that I no longer want to pay for OEM ink my first step would
    > be to researched prefilled carts.
    >
    > Also with all of the talk about BRANDS of ink I have not read much here
    > on BRANDS of cartridges. Who makes them and what ones are good and what
    > ones are poor.
    >
    >>
    >>
    >> Art
    >>
    >>
    >> measekite wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> Arthur Entlich wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> Ink refillers, who take your cartridge and re"charge" it, are a
    >>>> different breed of ink vendor than 3rd party ink sellers, in
    >>>> general, although some do both.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> They may target a different audience but they get their raw materials
    >>> from the same places the "aftermarket" vendors get theirs from.
    >>>
    >>>>
    >>>> I have seen some major problems with refilling, although I am not
    >>>> sure it all can fall on the shoulders of the refillers themselves.
    >>>> The cartridges may be quite old, may have numerous formulations of
    >>>> ink passing through they or mixed within them. They may be
    >>>> incorrectly refilled, etc.
    >>>>
    >>>> I'm sure many are fine, but for accurate and repeatable color, OEM
    >>>> or pre-packaged 3rd party are probably best.
    >>>>
    >>>> Art
    >>>>
    >>>> wazzad wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>> Measekite I purchased my ink refill cartridges from one of the
    >>>>> supposedly
    >>>>> better ink cartridge refiller franchise stores. My bad experience
    >>>>> with the
    >>>>> colour reproduction was enough to make me dip into my pockets for the
    >>>>> genuine canon ink cartridges and throw the ink refill cartridges in
    >>>>> the bin,
    >>>>> where they belonged. Over here in Australia there are many ink
    >>>>> refillers,
    >>>>> but my experiences have not been any good with any of them. Hope
    >>>>> this helps.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Cheers mate
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Ron from Downunder.
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>> "measekite" <measekite@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    >>>>> news:tuzge.15583$J12.12859@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com...
    >>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> wazzad wrote:
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>> All I can say Sarah is that I have recently purchased the iP 8500
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>> printer.
    >>>>>
    >>>>>>> It is a superb printer. I frequently print A4 size landscape
    >>>>>>> photographs
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>> from my digital camera and scanned 35mm slides. The resulting A4
    >>>>>>> prints
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>> are
    >>>>>
    >>>>>>> better than what you would get from quickie type film printing
    >>>>>>> services.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>> It
    >>>>>
    >>>>>>> paid for itself from developing all our relative's digital photos
    >>>>>>> from
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>> our
    >>>>>
    >>>>>>> daughter's recent wedding. You will have no regrets purchasing
    >>>>>>> the iP
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>>>> thinking: maybe I should get the iP8500? Is it the top of the line
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Pixma?
    >>>>>
    >>>>>>>> Is it better than the iP5000? If so, in what way, or in which
    >>>>>>>> specific
    >>>>>>>> areas? Worth getting instead of the iP5000? Any downsides?
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>> Many thanks for your input
    >>>>>>>> Sarah
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
  32. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    OEM is Canon brand, but I would guess that Canon outsources manufacture of
    these items as well as manufacture of their OEM inks. I have seen Rainbow
    and Arrow carts sold by more than one vendor so I would guess that they are
    brands. The ink that Ron uses is Sensient Formulabs, a branded ink sold by
    Alotofthings on their web site and also on ebay at a lower cost. I haven't
    used USA carts and can't comment on them. On OEM carts there is a plastic
    ball pressed into the fill hole that effects a seal. You can push the ball
    into the reservoir with a tool sold by bulk ink vendors, push it in with a
    center punch or nail with a tap of a hammer, or like Ron, you can leave the
    seal intact and make additional holes for filling and use a variety of
    sealing techniques, all of which are quite simple. A few vendors sell
    sealing plugs for the OEM carts, and several carts including prefilled Arrow
    and MIS empty carts have a soft plastic plug in the fill hole that can be
    removed and replaced for refilling. The aftermarket carts may have very
    minor variations from the OEM carts but function in the same manner. They
    have been designed and manufactured by third parties to work in these
    printers.

    "measekite" <measekite@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    news:ORjhe.4190$Y81.3747@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...
    >
    >
    > Ron Cohen wrote:
    >
    >>This is just a 'me too' to your comments. I refill OEM, Rainbow, USA and
    >>Arrow cartridges - all successfully.
    >
    > Are these actually manufacturer BRANDS that are sold in a variety of
    > places or are they webstore LABELS?
    >
    > So what is the difference between those 3 empty carts?
    >
    >>The procedure involves nothing more than putting a cap or seal on the ink
    >>outlet, making an opening in the reservoir for a syringe,
    >
    > Isn't there already an opening?
    >
    >>injecting ink and sealing the opening. There are a variety of methods to
    >>making the opening and resealing.
    >
    > Isn't there a plug or screw?
    >
    >>It's more a matter of personal choice than if one method is superior or
    >>not. If it works, then it's correct. I have no idea how long a cartridge
    >>will last if not allowed to dry out between fill ups since I'm still
    >>refilling the OEM cartridges that came with my first s820 and that is
    >>about three years ago. When our friend talks about people who like a PITA
    >>with respect to refilling, I get amused. It's so quick and easy (and not
    >>messy) to accomplish. To me the real PITA would be forking over $9.00 or
    >>more plus sales tax for a new OEM cartridge every time one ran out.
    >>
    >>
    >
    > The printer is built for OEM carts and that ink is designed for the
    > printer.
    >
    >>"Burt" <sfbjgNOSPAM@pacbell.net> wrote in message
    >>news:bL5he.2260$Y81.1080@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...
    >>
    >>>There are many brands of cartridges out there of which Arrow, Rainbow,
    >>>and Accujet are a few. These are made by factories, probably mostly in
    >>>China where I suspect that the OEM carts are made as well. Some are also
    >>>filled with inks that have been identified by vendors by brand. I would
    >>>not comment on which carts are suitable as I have only refilled using OEM
    >>>and MIS empty carts. Both work well with bulk inks from MIS.
    >>>
    >>>By saying that "There are people who like a pain in the ass" with
    >>>respect to refilling, you again use a pejoritive term as a semantic
    >>>device to convince people of your subjective opinion. A more accurate
    >>>statement might be that you wouldn't enjoy the hands-on involvement of
    >>>refilling carts, and you would prefer the simpler approach of buying and
    >>>installing either the OEM cart or possibly an aftermarket cart if you
    >>>were convinced that it would give equal performance and not harm your
    >>>printer. That with full knowledge that you are trading off convenience
    >>>for some savings in cost. I believe that would accurately state your
    >>>opinion without second guessing and, at the same time, criticizing others
    >>>who don't mind refilling. It seems to me that your abraisive and
    >>>confrontative approach lessens your credability. More civility is often
    >>>more convincing.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>snipped
    >>
    >>
  33. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    Arthur Entlich wrote:

    > Firstly, it can be much more than "a few dollars more", it can be
    > orders of magnitude differences, secondly, some people fine refilinmg
    > easy, if they have worked out the methods.


    Lastly does make sense to me but you can have about the same freedom if
    you can find BRANDED aftermarket prefilled carts.

    > Lastly, for hardcore users, they feel having inexpensive inks for
    > frees them financially and creatively from not having to worry about
    > the amount of ink costs a print might have used.
    >
    > Art
    >
    > measekite wrote:
    >
    >>
    >>
    >> Arthur Entlich wrote:
    >>
    >>> But that's not the issue.
    >>>
    >>> Although I do refill some cartridges, I also recognize there are
    >>> more perils involved. There is a risk of contamination during the
    >>> refill process from environmental contaminants or from changes
    >>> within the ink cartridge (dried inks, incompatibility between inks,
    >>> foam breakdown, build up of ink foaming, air bubbles trapped, etc)
    >>> and the ink, which may have been exposed to excessive oxygen and
    >>> oxidized, over-evaporated fluids or solvents, etc.. The ink
    >>> cartridge which are virgin are manufactured typically in a very
    >>> hygienic and professionally managed situation, and the cartridge is
    >>> fresh when filled. There are many less variables involved in a
    >>> factory filled cartridge.
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> And for a few dollars more you avoid the pain in the ass (for some)
    >> There are people who like a pain in the ass. If my print load ever
    >> gets to a point that I no longer want to pay for OEM ink my first
    >> step would be to researched prefilled carts.
    >>
    >> Also with all of the talk about BRANDS of ink I have not read much
    >> here on BRANDS of cartridges. Who makes them and what ones are good
    >> and what ones are poor.
    >>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> Art
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> measekite wrote:
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>> Arthur Entlich wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>> Ink refillers, who take your cartridge and re"charge" it, are a
    >>>>> different breed of ink vendor than 3rd party ink sellers, in
    >>>>> general, although some do both.
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>> They may target a different audience but they get their raw
    >>>> materials from the same places the "aftermarket" vendors get theirs
    >>>> from.
    >>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>> I have seen some major problems with refilling, although I am not
    >>>>> sure it all can fall on the shoulders of the refillers
    >>>>> themselves. The cartridges may be quite old, may have numerous
    >>>>> formulations of ink passing through they or mixed within them.
    >>>>> They may be incorrectly refilled, etc.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> I'm sure many are fine, but for accurate and repeatable color, OEM
    >>>>> or pre-packaged 3rd party are probably best.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Art
    >>>>>
    >>>>> wazzad wrote:
    >>>>>
    >>>>>> Measekite I purchased my ink refill cartridges from one of the
    >>>>>> supposedly
    >>>>>> better ink cartridge refiller franchise stores. My bad experience
    >>>>>> with the
    >>>>>> colour reproduction was enough to make me dip into my pockets for
    >>>>>> the
    >>>>>> genuine canon ink cartridges and throw the ink refill cartridges
    >>>>>> in the bin,
    >>>>>> where they belonged. Over here in Australia there are many ink
    >>>>>> refillers,
    >>>>>> but my experiences have not been any good with any of them. Hope
    >>>>>> this helps.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> Cheers mate
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> Ron from Downunder.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> "measekite" <measekite@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    >>>>>> news:tuzge.15583$J12.12859@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com...
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> wazzad wrote:
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>> All I can say Sarah is that I have recently purchased the iP 8500
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> printer.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>>> It is a superb printer. I frequently print A4 size landscape
    >>>>>>>> photographs
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>> from my digital camera and scanned 35mm slides. The resulting
    >>>>>>>> A4 prints
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> are
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>>> better than what you would get from quickie type film printing
    >>>>>>>> services.
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> It
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>>> paid for itself from developing all our relative's digital
    >>>>>>>> photos from
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> our
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>>> daughter's recent wedding. You will have no regrets purchasing
    >>>>>>>> the iP
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>> thinking: maybe I should get the iP8500? Is it the top of the
    >>>>>>>>> line
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> Pixma?
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>> Is it better than the iP5000? If so, in what way, or in which
    >>>>>>>>> specific
    >>>>>>>>> areas? Worth getting instead of the iP5000? Any downsides?
    >>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>> Many thanks for your input
    >>>>>>>>> Sarah
    >>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>>>
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>
  34. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    Thanks, you said it far better than I could. I purchased the Rainbow and USA
    cartridges from TylerMartin.com and the Arrow from alotofthings. All of them
    work just fine for me.
    Ron

    "Burt" <sfbjgNOSPAM@pacbell.net> wrote in message
    news:CFohe.16737$J12.5721@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com...
    > OEM is Canon brand, but I would guess that Canon outsources manufacture of
    > these items as well as manufacture of their OEM inks. I have seen Rainbow
    > and Arrow carts sold by more than one vendor so I would guess that they
    > are brands. The ink that Ron uses is Sensient Formulabs, a branded ink
    > sold by Alotofthings on their web site and also on ebay at a lower cost.
    > I haven't used USA carts and can't comment on them. On OEM carts there is
    > a plastic ball pressed into the fill hole that effects a seal. You can
    > push the ball into the reservoir with a tool sold by bulk ink vendors,
    > push it in with a center punch or nail with a tap of a hammer, or like
    > Ron, you can leave the seal intact and make additional holes for filling
    > and use a variety of sealing techniques, all of which are quite simple. A
    > few vendors sell sealing plugs for the OEM carts, and several carts
    > including prefilled Arrow and MIS empty carts have a soft plastic plug in
    > the fill hole that can be removed and replaced for refilling. The
    > aftermarket carts may have very minor variations from the OEM carts but
    > function in the same manner. They have been designed and manufactured by
    > third parties to work in these printers.
    >
    > "measekite" <measekite@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    > news:ORjhe.4190$Y81.3747@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...
    >>
    >>
    >> Ron Cohen wrote:
    >>
    >>>This is just a 'me too' to your comments. I refill OEM, Rainbow, USA and
    >>>Arrow cartridges - all successfully.
    >>
    >> Are these actually manufacturer BRANDS that are sold in a variety of
    >> places or are they webstore LABELS?
    >>
    >> So what is the difference between those 3 empty carts?
    >>
    >>>The procedure involves nothing more than putting a cap or seal on the ink
    >>>outlet, making an opening in the reservoir for a syringe,
    >>
    >> Isn't there already an opening?
    >>
    >>>injecting ink and sealing the opening. There are a variety of methods to
    >>>making the opening and resealing.
    >>
    >> Isn't there a plug or screw?
    >>
    >>>It's more a matter of personal choice than if one method is superior or
    >>>not. If it works, then it's correct. I have no idea how long a cartridge
    >>>will last if not allowed to dry out between fill ups since I'm still
    >>>refilling the OEM cartridges that came with my first s820 and that is
    >>>about three years ago. When our friend talks about people who like a PITA
    >>>with respect to refilling, I get amused. It's so quick and easy (and not
    >>>messy) to accomplish. To me the real PITA would be forking over $9.00 or
    >>>more plus sales tax for a new OEM cartridge every time one ran out.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>
    >> The printer is built for OEM carts and that ink is designed for the
    >> printer.
    >>
    >>>"Burt" <sfbjgNOSPAM@pacbell.net> wrote in message
    >>>news:bL5he.2260$Y81.1080@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...
    >>>
    >>>>There are many brands of cartridges out there of which Arrow, Rainbow,
    >>>>and Accujet are a few. These are made by factories, probably mostly in
    >>>>China where I suspect that the OEM carts are made as well. Some are
    >>>>also filled with inks that have been identified by vendors by brand. I
    >>>>would not comment on which carts are suitable as I have only refilled
    >>>>using OEM and MIS empty carts. Both work well with bulk inks from MIS.
    >>>>
    >>>>By saying that "There are people who like a pain in the ass" with
    >>>>respect to refilling, you again use a pejoritive term as a semantic
    >>>>device to convince people of your subjective opinion. A more accurate
    >>>>statement might be that you wouldn't enjoy the hands-on involvement of
    >>>>refilling carts, and you would prefer the simpler approach of buying and
    >>>>installing either the OEM cart or possibly an aftermarket cart if you
    >>>>were convinced that it would give equal performance and not harm your
    >>>>printer. That with full knowledge that you are trading off convenience
    >>>>for some savings in cost. I believe that would accurately state your
    >>>>opinion without second guessing and, at the same time, criticizing
    >>>>others who don't mind refilling. It seems to me that your abraisive and
    >>>>confrontative approach lessens your credability. More civility is often
    >>>>more convincing.
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>snipped
    >>>
    >>>
    >
    >
  35. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    Burt wrote:

    >OEM is Canon brand, but I would guess that Canon outsources manufacture of
    >these items as well as manufacture of their OEM inks.
    >

    Canon formulates all of the ink that is sold under their name. They
    have also engineered and designed the carts to work with the printer
    they designed. That is probably the reason Burt refills them. If there
    was something else that was better he would buy them.

    >I have seen Rainbow
    >and Arrow carts sold by more than one vendor so I would guess that they are
    >brands.
    >

    Might be.

    > The ink that Ron uses is Sensient Formulabs, a branded ink sold by
    >Alotofthings
    >
    alotofcrap

    >on their web site and also on ebay at a lower cost. I haven't
    >used USA carts and can't comment on them. On OEM carts there is a plastic
    >ball pressed into the fill hole that effects a seal. You can push the ball
    >into the reservoir with a tool sold by bulk ink vendors, push it in with a
    >center punch or nail with a tap of a hammer, or like Ron, you can leave the
    >seal intact and make additional holes for filling and use a variety of
    >sealing techniques, all of which are quite simple. A few vendors sell
    >sealing plugs for the OEM carts, and several carts including prefilled Arrow
    >and MIS empty carts have a soft plastic plug in the fill hole that can be
    >removed and replaced for refilling. The aftermarket carts may have very
    >minor variations from the OEM carts but function in the same manner. They
    >have been designed and manufactured by third parties to work in these
    >printers.
    >
    >"measekite" <measekite@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    >news:ORjhe.4190$Y81.3747@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...
    >
    >
    >>Ron Cohen wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>>This is just a 'me too' to your comments. I refill OEM, Rainbow, USA and
    >>>Arrow cartridges - all successfully.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>Are these actually manufacturer BRANDS that are sold in a variety of
    >>places or are they webstore LABELS?
    >>
    >>So what is the difference between those 3 empty carts?
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>>The procedure involves nothing more than putting a cap or seal on the ink
    >>>outlet, making an opening in the reservoir for a syringe,
    >>>
    >>>
    >>Isn't there already an opening?
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>>injecting ink and sealing the opening. There are a variety of methods to
    >>>making the opening and resealing.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>Isn't there a plug or screw?
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>>It's more a matter of personal choice than if one method is superior or
    >>>not. If it works, then it's correct. I have no idea how long a cartridge
    >>>will last if not allowed to dry out between fill ups since I'm still
    >>>refilling the OEM cartridges that came with my first s820 and that is
    >>>about three years ago. When our friend talks about people who like a PITA
    >>>with respect to refilling, I get amused. It's so quick and easy (and not
    >>>messy) to accomplish. To me the real PITA would be forking over $9.00 or
    >>>more plus sales tax for a new OEM cartridge every time one ran out.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>The printer is built for OEM carts and that ink is designed for the
    >>printer.
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>>"Burt" <sfbjgNOSPAM@pacbell.net> wrote in message
    >>>news:bL5he.2260$Y81.1080@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>>There are many brands of cartridges out there of which Arrow, Rainbow,
    >>>>and Accujet are a few. These are made by factories, probably mostly in
    >>>>China where I suspect that the OEM carts are made as well. Some are also
    >>>>filled with inks that have been identified by vendors by brand. I would
    >>>>not comment on which carts are suitable as I have only refilled using OEM
    >>>>and MIS empty carts. Both work well with bulk inks from MIS.
    >>>>
    >>>>By saying that "There are people who like a pain in the ass" with
    >>>>respect to refilling, you again use a pejoritive term as a semantic
    >>>>device to convince people of your subjective opinion. A more accurate
    >>>>statement might be that you wouldn't enjoy the hands-on involvement of
    >>>>refilling carts, and you would prefer the simpler approach of buying and
    >>>>installing either the OEM cart or possibly an aftermarket cart if you
    >>>>were convinced that it would give equal performance and not harm your
    >>>>printer. That with full knowledge that you are trading off convenience
    >>>>for some savings in cost. I believe that would accurately state your
    >>>>opinion without second guessing and, at the same time, criticizing others
    >>>>who don't mind refilling. It seems to me that your abraisive and
    >>>>confrontative approach lessens your credability. More civility is often
    >>>>more convincing.
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>snipped
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >
    >
    >
    >
  36. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    measekite wrote:

    >Burt wrote:
    >
    >>OEM is Canon brand, but I would guess that Canon outsources manufacture of
    >>these items as well as manufacture of their OEM inks.
    >
    >Canon formulates all of the ink that is sold under their name.

    I don't believe Canon manufactures nor formulates ink.

    You do realize there are only a few ink manufacturers, and all of the
    big printer companies buy from them, including Canon, Epson, HP, and
    Lexmark.

    >> The ink that Ron uses is Sensient Formulabs, a branded ink sold by
    >>Alotofthings
    >>
    >alotofcrap

    Have you purchased from them and not been satisfied with their products?

    If so, please elaborate.
  37. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    Ron Cohen wrote:

    >Thanks, you said it far better than I could. I purchased the Rainbow and USA
    >cartridges from TylerMartin.com and the Arrow from alotofthings. All of them
    >work just fine for me.
    >Ron
    >
    >

    And how is Tyler Martin? What is their URL?

    >"Burt" <sfbjgNOSPAM@pacbell.net> wrote in message
    >news:CFohe.16737$J12.5721@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com...
    >
    >
    >>OEM is Canon brand, but I would guess that Canon outsources manufacture of
    >>these items as well as manufacture of their OEM inks. I have seen Rainbow
    >>and Arrow carts sold by more than one vendor so I would guess that they
    >>are brands. The ink that Ron uses is Sensient Formulabs, a branded ink
    >>sold by Alotofthings on their web site and also on ebay at a lower cost.
    >>I haven't used USA carts and can't comment on them. On OEM carts there is
    >>a plastic ball pressed into the fill hole that effects a seal. You can
    >>push the ball into the reservoir with a tool sold by bulk ink vendors,
    >>push it in with a center punch or nail with a tap of a hammer, or like
    >>Ron, you can leave the seal intact and make additional holes for filling
    >>and use a variety of sealing techniques, all of which are quite simple. A
    >>few vendors sell sealing plugs for the OEM carts, and several carts
    >>including prefilled Arrow and MIS empty carts have a soft plastic plug in
    >>the fill hole that can be removed and replaced for refilling. The
    >>aftermarket carts may have very minor variations from the OEM carts but
    >>function in the same manner. They have been designed and manufactured by
    >>third parties to work in these printers.
    >>
    >>"measekite" <measekite@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    >>news:ORjhe.4190$Y81.3747@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...
    >>
    >>
    >>>Ron Cohen wrote:
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>>This is just a 'me too' to your comments. I refill OEM, Rainbow, USA and
    >>>>Arrow cartridges - all successfully.
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>Are these actually manufacturer BRANDS that are sold in a variety of
    >>>places or are they webstore LABELS?
    >>>
    >>>So what is the difference between those 3 empty carts?
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>>The procedure involves nothing more than putting a cap or seal on the ink
    >>>>outlet, making an opening in the reservoir for a syringe,
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>Isn't there already an opening?
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>>injecting ink and sealing the opening. There are a variety of methods to
    >>>>making the opening and resealing.
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>Isn't there a plug or screw?
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>>It's more a matter of personal choice than if one method is superior or
    >>>>not. If it works, then it's correct. I have no idea how long a cartridge
    >>>>will last if not allowed to dry out between fill ups since I'm still
    >>>>refilling the OEM cartridges that came with my first s820 and that is
    >>>>about three years ago. When our friend talks about people who like a PITA
    >>>>with respect to refilling, I get amused. It's so quick and easy (and not
    >>>>messy) to accomplish. To me the real PITA would be forking over $9.00 or
    >>>>more plus sales tax for a new OEM cartridge every time one ran out.
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>The printer is built for OEM carts and that ink is designed for the
    >>>printer.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>>"Burt" <sfbjgNOSPAM@pacbell.net> wrote in message
    >>>>news:bL5he.2260$Y81.1080@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>>There are many brands of cartridges out there of which Arrow, Rainbow,
    >>>>>and Accujet are a few. These are made by factories, probably mostly in
    >>>>>China where I suspect that the OEM carts are made as well. Some are
    >>>>>also filled with inks that have been identified by vendors by brand. I
    >>>>>would not comment on which carts are suitable as I have only refilled
    >>>>>using OEM and MIS empty carts. Both work well with bulk inks from MIS.
    >>>>>
    >>>>>By saying that "There are people who like a pain in the ass" with
    >>>>>respect to refilling, you again use a pejoritive term as a semantic
    >>>>>device to convince people of your subjective opinion. A more accurate
    >>>>>statement might be that you wouldn't enjoy the hands-on involvement of
    >>>>>refilling carts, and you would prefer the simpler approach of buying and
    >>>>>installing either the OEM cart or possibly an aftermarket cart if you
    >>>>>were convinced that it would give equal performance and not harm your
    >>>>>printer. That with full knowledge that you are trading off convenience
    >>>>>for some savings in cost. I believe that would accurately state your
    >>>>>opinion without second guessing and, at the same time, criticizing
    >>>>>others who don't mind refilling. It seems to me that your abraisive and
    >>>>>confrontative approach lessens your credability. More civility is often
    >>>>>more convincing.
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>snipped
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>
    >>
    >
    >
    >
    >
  38. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    www.tylermartin.com They also sell on eBay.

    "measekite" <measekite@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    news:7Quhe.4436$Y81.1059@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...
    >
    >
    > Ron Cohen wrote:
    >
    >>Thanks, you said it far better than I could. I purchased the Rainbow and
    >>USA cartridges from TylerMartin.com and the Arrow from alotofthings. All
    >>of them work just fine for me.
    >>Ron
    >>
    >
    > And how is Tyler Martin? What is their URL?
    >
    snipped
  39. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    I look at their site. I cannot find where they are supposed to sell
    Sensinent BRAND ink in their carts. It also seems kind of weird to sell
    BBQ Sauce and Diet pills along with their ink. I hope their customers
    do not brush ink on their steak and then get fat requiring a diet pill? :-)

    Ron Cohen wrote:

    >www.tylermartin.com They also sell on eBay.
    >
    >"measekite" <measekite@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    >news:7Quhe.4436$Y81.1059@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...
    >
    >
    >>Ron Cohen wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>>Thanks, you said it far better than I could. I purchased the Rainbow and
    >>>USA cartridges from TylerMartin.com and the Arrow from alotofthings. All
    >>>of them work just fine for me.
    >>>Ron
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>And how is Tyler Martin? What is their URL?
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >snipped
    >
    >
    >
    >
  40. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    "measekite" <measekite@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    news:lGuhe.4431$Y81.3866@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...
    >
    >
    > Burt wrote:
    >
    >>OEM is Canon brand, but I would guess that Canon outsources manufacture of
    >>these items as well as manufacture of their OEM inks.
    >
    > Canon formulates all of the ink that is sold under their name. They have
    > also engineered and designed the carts to work with the printer they
    > designed. That is probably the reason Burt refills them. If there was
    > something else that was better he would buy them.

    There actually are some carts that might be better. Canon carts have two
    sponges in the sponge compartment. The top one does not take up ink very
    well in refilling. It is a different density of foam. There are some
    aftermarket carts with a single foam sponge instead, and they tend to refill
    better than OEM carts. This is covered very well in the Nifty-Stuff inkjet
    forum where people have taken the carts apart and analyzed them. I do have
    MIS carts that I buy empty and refill. They are excellent and work
    interchangeably with the OEM carts. Ron Cohen uses Arrow carts, purchased
    from Alotofthings and refills them. They work perfectly as well. The
    people who mfgr aftermarket carts have undoubtedly reverse-engineered them
    and designed them to work properly with Canon printers. The ones that have
    survived in the marketplace for five or more years wouldn't have stayed in
    business had their products not performed properly.

    I would bet that Canon prepares the specs and outsources carts and inks,
    just as the air, oil, and fuel filters you have installed at the Acura
    dealer's repair dept have an Acura logo but are absolutely outsourced (to
    say nothing of many of the components in every car on the road).
    (snip)
  41. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    You are definitely high maintenance - Ron and I both can vouch for
    Alotofthings and they clearly identify and sell the ink you would prefer if
    your were to use third party inks/carts. Time to let go of your unfounded,
    mean-spirited prejudice.

    "measekite" <measekite@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    news:Cbvhe.16929$J12.4366@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com...
    >I look at their site. I cannot find where they are supposed to sell
    >Sensinent BRAND ink in their carts. It also seems kind of weird to sell
    >BBQ Sauce and Diet pills along with their ink. I hope their customers do
    >not brush ink on their steak and then get fat requiring a diet pill? :-)
    >
    > Ron Cohen wrote:
    >
    >>www.tylermartin.com They also sell on eBay.
    >>
    >>"measekite" <measekite@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    >>news:7Quhe.4436$Y81.1059@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...
    >>
    >>>Ron Cohen wrote:
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>>Thanks, you said it far better than I could. I purchased the Rainbow and
    >>>>USA cartridges from TylerMartin.com and the Arrow from alotofthings. All
    >>>>of them work just fine for me.
    >>>>Ron
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>And how is Tyler Martin? What is their URL?
    >>>
    >>>
    >>snipped
    >>
    >>
  42. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    I have no idea what brand ink is in the cartridges, however I read a posting
    (a long time ago so take it with a grain of salt) that Rainbow carts had
    Formulabs ink in them. Other than that all I know is that the ink worked
    fine in all my printers and once empty I refill the cartridges with
    Formulabs ink. I also have a set of test prints I created when I first got
    my iP4000. The set consists of color charts (from the alotofthings website)
    and photos I took with an Olympus c-3000 digital camera. The set was printed
    with original Canon cartridges that came with the printer, then the Canon
    tanks were removed and replaced by a set of USA (from tylermartin)
    cartridges. After printing several purge pages to clear any residual Canon
    ink from the printhead the set was again printed. This same procedure was
    repeated with new Arrow cartridges, a set of freshly refilled cartridges
    from my latest order of bulk ink from Alotofthings and then with a old set
    of tanks removed from my i950 refilled with Formulabs ink which came from an
    ink order placed well over a year earlier. All of these tests were printed
    on Office Depot Premium High Gloss paper. Because of the wide variations in
    age of inks and where the inks came from - Canon, Alotofthings & TylerMartin
    it would have been reasonable to expect at least minor differences in the
    coloration of each set. That wasn't the case. I couldn't detect any
    variations and the only way I could tell the source of the ink on each sheet
    was from the handwritten notations I made on the back side of each sheet.
    Bottom line to me is that if it works, produces the desired output and
    doesn't damage the printer then I really don't care what the source of the
    ink is. Since all of the above meet that criteria, I go for the best prices.

    "measekite" <measekite@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    news:Cbvhe.16929$J12.4366@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com...
    >I look at their site. I cannot find where they are supposed to sell
    >Sensinent BRAND ink in their carts. It also seems kind of weird to sell
    >BBQ Sauce and Diet pills along with their ink. I hope their customers do
    >not brush ink on their steak and then get fat requiring a diet pill? :-)
    >
    > Ron Cohen wrote:
    >
    >>www.tylermartin.com They also sell on eBay.
    >>
  43. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    Guess you never shopped at Fry's! I haven't been there in years, but the
    one time I did go to their store down on the San Francisco bay area
    peninsula it was as much a grocery store as a great store for computers and
    electronics. Diet pills might just be the right thing to sell along with
    computer supplies for some whose butts are glued to the chair in front of
    our computers too many hours a day.

    "measekite" <measekite@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    news:Cbvhe.16929$J12.4366@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com...
    >I look at their site. I cannot find where they are supposed to sell
    >Sensinent BRAND ink in their carts. It also seems kind of weird to sell
    >BBQ Sauce and Diet pills along with their ink. I hope their customers do
    >not brush ink on their steak and then get fat requiring a diet pill? :-)
    >
    > Ron Cohen wrote:
    >
    >>www.tylermartin.com They also sell on eBay.
    >>
    >>"measekite" <measekite@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    >>news:7Quhe.4436$Y81.1059@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...
    >>
    >>>Ron Cohen wrote:
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>>Thanks, you said it far better than I could. I purchased the Rainbow and
    >>>>USA cartridges from TylerMartin.com and the Arrow from alotofthings. All
    >>>>of them work just fine for me.
    >>>>Ron
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>And how is Tyler Martin? What is their URL?
    >>>
    >>>
    >>snipped
    >>
    >>
  44. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    Burt wrote:

    >"measekite" <measekite@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    >news:lGuhe.4431$Y81.3866@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...
    >
    >
    >>Burt wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>>OEM is Canon brand, but I would guess that Canon outsources manufacture of
    >>>these items as well as manufacture of their OEM inks.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>Canon formulates all of the ink that is sold under their name. They have
    >>also engineered and designed the carts to work with the printer they
    >>designed. That is probably the reason Burt refills them. If there was
    >>something else that was better he would buy them.
    >>
    >>
    >
    >There actually are some carts that might be better. Canon carts have two
    >sponges in the sponge compartment. The top one does not take up ink very
    >well in refilling. It is a different density of foam. There are some
    >aftermarket carts with a single foam sponge instead, and they tend to refill
    >better than OEM carts. This is covered very well in the Nifty-Stuff inkjet
    >forum where people have taken the carts apart and analyzed them. I do have
    >MIS carts that I buy empty and refill. They are excellent and work
    >interchangeably with the OEM carts. Ron Cohen uses Arrow carts, purchased
    >from Alotofthings and refills them.
    >
    alotofcrap

    >They work perfectly as well. The
    >people who mfgr aftermarket carts have undoubtedly reverse-engineered them
    >
    >

    Apparently Epson does not think so as they are suing someone for patent
    infringement. Epson is going the extra mile in designing carts that are
    difficult to refill in order to discourage the practice regardless of
    what they admit too. In a way I cannot blame them.

    >and designed them to work properly with Canon printers. The ones that have
    >survived in the marketplace for five or more years wouldn't have stayed in
    >business had their products not performed properly.
    >
    >

    Why not. Chrysler is still selling cars. OK, I do undertand that they
    were saved by the US government and then the Germans came to the
    rescue. So they have survived for 5 years.

    >I would bet that Canon prepares the specs and outsources carts and inks,
    >just as the air, oil, and fuel filters you have installed at the Acura
    >dealer's repair dept have an Acura logo but are absolutely outsourced (to
    >say nothing of many of the components in every car on the road).
    >
    >

    That is a distinct possibility.

    >(snip)
    >
    >
    >
    >
  45. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    Burt wrote:

    >You are definitely high maintenance - Ron and I both can vouch for
    >Alotofthings
    >

    you mean alotofcrap

    >and they clearly identify and sell the ink you would prefer if
    >your were to use third party inks/carts. Time to let go of your unfounded,
    >mean-spirited prejudice.
    >
    >

    nope

    >"measekite" <measekite@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    >news:Cbvhe.16929$J12.4366@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com...
    >
    >
    >>I look at their site. I cannot find where they are supposed to sell
    >>Sensinent BRAND ink in their carts. It also seems kind of weird to sell
    >>BBQ Sauce and Diet pills along with their ink. I hope their customers do
    >>not brush ink on their steak and then get fat requiring a diet pill? :-)
    >>
    >>Ron Cohen wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>>www.tylermartin.com They also sell on eBay.
    >>>
    >>>"measekite" <measekite@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    >>>news:7Quhe.4436$Y81.1059@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>>Ron Cohen wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>>Thanks, you said it far better than I could. I purchased the Rainbow and
    >>>>>USA cartridges from TylerMartin.com and the Arrow from alotofthings. All
    >>>>>of them work just fine for me.
    >>>>>Ron
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>And how is Tyler Martin? What is their URL?
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>snipped
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >
    >
    >
    >
  46. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    Ron Cohen wrote:

    >I have no idea what brand ink is in the cartridges, however I read a posting
    >(a long time ago so take it with a grain of salt) that Rainbow carts had
    >Formulabs ink in them.
    >

    Are you saying that the mfg of the Rainbow carts has them prefilled with
    Sensinet ink and then sell they to web vendors or resell them under some
    Label? Or is it the vendor who buys Rainbow BRANDED mfg carts and
    prefill themselves with what ever they choose and then resells them?

    >Other than that all I know is that the ink worked
    >fine in all my printers and once empty I refill the cartridges with
    >Formulabs ink. I also have a set of test prints I created when I first got
    >my iP4000. The set consists of color charts (from the
    >
    snip

    alotofcrap

    >website)
    >and photos I took with an Olympus c-3000 digital camera. The set was printed
    >with original Canon cartridges that came with the printer, then the Canon
    >tanks were removed and replaced by a set of USA (from tylermartin)
    >cartridges. After printing several purge pages to clear any residual Canon
    >ink from the printhead the set was again printed. This same procedure was
    >repeated with new Arrow cartridges, a set of freshly refilled cartridges
    >from my latest order of bulk ink from
    >


    > and then with a old set
    >of tanks removed from my i950 refilled with Formulabs ink which came from an
    >ink order placed well over a year earlier. All of these tests were printed
    >on Office Depot Premium High Gloss paper. Because of the wide variations in
    >age of inks and where the inks came from - Canon, & TylerMartin
    >it would have been reasonable to expect at least minor differences in the
    >coloration of each set. That wasn't the case. I couldn't detect any
    >variations and the only way I could tell the source of the ink on each sheet
    >was from the handwritten notations I made on the back side of each sheet.
    >Bottom line to me is that if it works, produces the desired output and
    >doesn't damage the printer then I really don't care what the source of the
    >ink is. Since all of the above meet that criteria, I go for the best prices.
    >
    >"measekite" <measekite@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    >news:Cbvhe.16929$J12.4366@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com...
    >
    >
    >>I look at their site. I cannot find where they are supposed to sell
    >>Sensinent BRAND ink in their carts. It also seems kind of weird to sell
    >>BBQ Sauce and Diet pills along with their ink. I hope their customers do
    >>not brush ink on their steak and then get fat requiring a diet pill? :-)
    >>
    >>Ron Cohen wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>>www.tylermartin.com They also sell on eBay.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >
    >
    >
    >
  47. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    Burt wrote:

    >Guess you never shopped at Fry's! I haven't been there in years, but the
    >one time I did go to their store down on the San Francisco bay area
    >peninsula it was as much a grocery store as a great store for computers and
    >electronics.
    >

    Why are you showing your ignorance?

    >Diet pills might just be the right thing to sell along with
    >computer supplies for some whose butts are glued to the chair in front of
    >our computers too many hours a day.
    >
    >

    Exlax will do for those.

    >"measekite" <measekite@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    >news:Cbvhe.16929$J12.4366@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com...
    >
    >
    >>I look at their site. I cannot find where they are supposed to sell
    >>Sensinent BRAND ink in their carts. It also seems kind of weird to sell
    >>BBQ Sauce and Diet pills along with their ink. I hope their customers do
    >>not brush ink on their steak and then get fat requiring a diet pill? :-)
    >>
    >>Ron Cohen wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>>www.tylermartin.com They also sell on eBay.
    >>>
    >>>"measekite" <measekite@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    >>>news:7Quhe.4436$Y81.1059@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>>Ron Cohen wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>>Thanks, you said it far better than I could. I purchased the Rainbow and
    >>>>>USA cartridges from TylerMartin.com and the Arrow from alotofthings. All
    >>>>>of them work just fine for me.
    >>>>>Ron
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>And how is Tyler Martin? What is their URL?
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>snipped
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >
    >
    >
    >
  48. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    Bill wrote:

    >measekite wrote:
    >
    >
    >
    >>Burt wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>>OEM is Canon brand, but I would guess that Canon outsources manufacture of
    >>>these items as well as manufacture of their OEM inks.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>Canon formulates all of the ink that is sold under their name.
    >>
    >>
    >
    >I don't believe Canon manufactures nor formulates ink.
    >
    >You do realize there are only a few ink manufacturers, and all of the
    >big printer companies buy from them, including Canon, Epson, HP, and
    >Lexmark.
    >
    >

    Canon designed and formulated their ink, their paper and their printer
    to all work together. Even the majority of the members of the
    AFTERMARKET club will not deny that. And the same goes for Epson and Canon.

    >
    >
    >>>The ink that Ron uses is Sensient Formulabs, a branded ink sold by
    >>>Alotofthings
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>alotofcrap
    >>
    >>
    >
    >Have you purchased from them and not been satisfied with their products?
    >
    >If so, please elaborate.
    >
    >
  49. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    measekite wrote:

    >>>Canon formulates all of the ink that is sold under their name.
    >>
    >>I don't believe Canon manufactures nor formulates ink.
    >>
    >>You do realize there are only a few ink manufacturers, and all of the
    >>big printer companies buy from them, including Canon, Epson, HP, and
    >>Lexmark.
    >
    >Canon designed and formulated their ink, their paper and their printer
    >to all work together. Even the majority of the members of the
    >AFTERMARKET club will not deny that. And the same goes for Epson and Canon.

    I wasn't aware of such a club...

    But yes, they're intended to work together just like the other printer
    brands. And there are numerous combinations that work just as well, even
    when mixing and matching different brands.

    Which just goes to show that ink, paper, and printers are not magical
    items with mythical properties that only Canon can replicate.

    >>>alotofcrap
    >>
    >>Have you purchased from them and not been satisfied with their products?
    >>
    >>If so, please elaborate.

    I noticed you avoided answering this part...
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