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AMD's agressive plan to Beat Intel!

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  • CPUs
  • AMD
  • Intel
Last response: in CPUs

How do you think AMD''''''''''''''''s quality of stuff will be after moving up schedual?

Total: 58 votes

  • It will degrade and AMD will still be second to intel
  • 37 %
  • AMD is doing well in R nd'''''''''''''''' D and is ahead of schedual?
  • 25 %
  • This is just a moral boost and maybe for stock boosts
  • 40 %
July 21, 2006 7:15:46 AM

Just read this and thought i'd spread it lol.
THG Article
If they do get things out faster without compromising quality this bodes well for my decision to buy AM2 with the x2 5000+ for now then buy an uber cpu in like a year. Draw your own conclusions from this.... maybe AMD's developement is ahead of schedual or they have no choice and are desperate to compete with intel... I think they will pull through and come out with quality products... how about you? :?:

EDIT:sorry i had to change to title to attract more attention, and now i'll get flamed lol :p  :wink: 8)

More about : amd agressive plan beat intel

July 21, 2006 7:19:34 AM

The "wait a year and buy an über cpu" never works... they always change the socket or somthing clever :( 

Happens every time :?
July 21, 2006 7:23:50 AM

Quote:
The "wait a year and buy an über cpu" never works... they always change the socket or somthing clever :( 

Happens every time :?


Even when AM3 comes out it will still be backwards compatible with AM2.
Related resources
July 21, 2006 7:34:11 AM

Quote:
The "wait a year and buy an über cpu" never works... they always change the socket or somthing clever :( 

Happens every time :?


Even when AM3 comes out it will still be backwards compatible with AM2.

http://www.tomshardware.com/2006/07/14/core2_duo_knocks_out_athlon_64/page7.html

Quote:
This is also the reason why it turned out that you will need to replace even a 975X motherboard, although technically it could have supported Core 2 Duo.


Somthing clever :tongue:
It always happens, trust me :wink:
July 21, 2006 7:41:43 AM

Quote:

If they do get things out faster without compromising quality this bodes well for my decision to buy AM2 with the x2 5000+ for now then buy an uber cpu in like a year.

Or you can buy an uber CPU now from Intel.
July 21, 2006 7:42:09 AM

I'm surpirsed that no one cares about this "news"... maybe its not signifigant... or maybe its to late/early CRAP its almost friggin 4am, see you guys distract me by making all your funny flaming lol. Hopefully in the morning i have 126 flame posts against me for fanboyism lol, goodnight.... :wink:
July 21, 2006 7:43:48 AM

Quote:
Just read this and thought i'd spread it lol.
THG Article
If they do get things out faster without compromising quality this bodes well for my decision to buy AM2 with the x2 5000+ for now then buy an uber cpu in like a year. Draw your own conclusions from this.... maybe AMD's developement is ahead of schedual or they have no choice and are desperate to compete with intel... I think they will pull through and come out with quality products... how about you? :?:

EDIT:sorry i had to change to title to attract more attention, and now i'll get flamed lol :p  :wink: 8)
AMD is admitting that they can't afford this price war.

Quote:
Meyer added that the desktop market saw "deep discounts" during the quarter - "in some cases so deep that we walked away from a business that did not make sense."
:wink:
July 21, 2006 7:44:25 AM

You mean desperate plan?
July 21, 2006 7:52:08 AM

Not desperate, just funny.

Wasn't it just last year that Ruiz challenged Intel to a benchmark competition? And now he says

Quote:
Chief executive officer Hector Ruiz summarized the current situation by saying that the microprocessor industry has entered a "new stage of transition" and a "world of differentiation." The micro-processor market has moved away from benchmarks, he said, and is now in a phase of "innovation", "choice" and "open and fair competition".


Fun thing to say when you're behind, I suppose. :roll:



In all seriousness though, I wish AMD best of luck in their 45nm efforts. One has to remember, though, that 65nm was supposed to be here right around now, according to AMD's roadmaps a year or two ago. It will be interesting if they can keep their 45nm goals without slipping like they did with 65nm. A roadmap is easy to make, following through with it, sometimes not so.
July 21, 2006 9:00:58 AM

well we did see presscott go come in. Boy was it a heater and it was nm. It shows both amd and intel can make mistakes. Amd for waiting to change there chips and Intel with a chip that use too much heat and ran slower. But intel and amd are companys ran by people who tend to make mistakes.
July 21, 2006 11:25:19 AM

Quote:
But intel and amd are companys ran by people who tend to make mistakes.


?????
July 21, 2006 11:56:33 AM

Quote:
Just read this and thought i'd spread it lol.
THG Article
If they do get things out faster without compromising quality this bodes well for my decision to buy AM2 with the x2 5000+ for now then buy an uber cpu in like a year. Draw your own conclusions from this.... maybe AMD's developement is ahead of schedual or they have no choice and are desperate to compete with intel... I think they will pull through and come out with quality products... how about you? :?:

EDIT:sorry i had to change to title to attract more attention, and now i'll get flamed lol :p  :wink: 8)


AMDs productswill be the same quality or they wouldn't try this. They know how much is at stake.

I disagreed though with Toms assessment of how much of a price drop they need. You can take the 51% he suggests and instead of normalizing for a P4, he shooul dtake into accout that 95% of Intel's stock is soemthing people don't want. Especially now that Core 2 is cheap.

I think this may hurt Intel more. Either this or another article talks abotu how AMDs partners will take some of the hit for the price drop. You think ATi is feeling generous towards Intel and they have to compete for mobo sales?

Or maybe Dell will take the hit and lose more money while still trying to unload HeatBurst.

HP has already given Intel back most of the Itanium bill and pushing a billion transistor CPU that has no supported MS wksta (it was cancelled) will take a marketing miracle.
July 21, 2006 1:09:06 PM

Quote:
Just read this and thought i'd spread it lol.
THG Article
If they do get things out faster without compromising quality this bodes well for my decision to buy AM2 with the x2 5000+ for now then buy an uber cpu in like a year. Draw your own conclusions from this.... maybe AMD's developement is ahead of schedual or they have no choice and are desperate to compete with intel... I think they will pull through and come out with quality products... how about you? :?:

EDIT:sorry i had to change to title to attract more attention, and now i'll get flamed lol :p  :wink: 8)



I disagreed though with Toms assessment of how much of a price drop they need. You can take the 51% he suggests and instead of normalizing for a P4, he shooul dtake into accout that 95% of Intel's stock is soemthing people don't want. Especially now that Core 2 is cheap.

Your forgetting about the biggest market out there, and that would be med, large and corp business. They have large amount of computers in there offices and large scale of them use the P4 or Celerons. Intel would be very stupid to force them to upgrade from there current setups to the newer arch C2D. With this large supply's of P4 and Celerons still around and becoming very cheap if these sectors want to upgrade they can easily do it still without change MB. Which saves time and money for there IT departments. Intel was very smart about this move and only putting out around 25% of there current ability to produce CPU's towards Core 2 bases Arch.

Can't just look at the small picture. Must look at the whole picture and there is many, many sides to it. Home PCs is and will always be low end returns for Intel. They have many large company's that would drop them if they forced them to upgrade every time they brought out a new CPU. AMD is the same was as well. They finally are getting a good foot hold in this area so they have to be carefully as well. Main reason why they try so hard to make sure everything is future profit. But that has draw backs as well. But this isn't the place to go into that.
July 21, 2006 1:09:55 PM

This conference call sounded like some major damage control to me. I hope their transition to 45nm goes better than 65nm. Just don't know how they are gonna go 45nm ahead of schedule when 65nm has been such a nightmare for them. Have 65nm cpu's even been sampled yet?

I think more than anything, right now they are doing everything possible to keep investors from jumping ship.

These targets they have set are so high, they are gonna need a lot of hard work as well as good luck to pull it off.
July 21, 2006 1:18:02 PM

Quote:
This conference call sounded like some major damage control to me. I hope their transition to 45nm goes better than 65nm. Just don't know how they are gonna go 45nm ahead of schedule when 65nm has been such a nightmare for them. Have 65nm cpu's even been sampled yet?

I think more than anything, right now they are doing everything possible to keep investors from jumping ship.

These targets they have set are so high, they are gonna need a lot of hard work as well as good luck to pull it off.
Not only that, but they have clowns like MMM, Sharikou,BaronMatrix,GottaLoveIMC,MrsD(MrsBytch) and others making them look foolish. :?
July 21, 2006 1:28:48 PM

I can't understand their plan if they have any.


Anyway good sence of humor, "the tiny fish is going to eat the big shark"
July 21, 2006 1:46:41 PM

45 nm will not come out in 2008 for amd, they havent even got working 65 nm prototypes. It usually takes a year between prototypes to full scale production where the yeilds are high. So the way i look at it, 2007 is coming really quickly, amd does not have 65 nm yet, this most likely wont come later 2007 at best, also considering how long they have failed at 65 nm is something to be taken into consideration. How ever this is something you probably already know.
July 21, 2006 1:53:39 PM

AMD's roadmap looks more like a wish list to Santa Claus than a realistic plan. 45 nm processors in the first half of 2008 looks better in the news, than to talk about what is happening to their 65nm process.
July 21, 2006 2:10:07 PM

Amd is honestly acting like a small child. I hate the way they are taking this, complaing and claming Intel had "skewed metrics" on their power consumption readings, which every review site so far is showing core 2's using less power then amds dual cores sometimes having damn close to amds single core parts. Their vaporware last minute poorly engineered platforms ie 4x4, now this wishlist of a roadmap. Honestly they will be lucky to get 45 nm 2nd quarter of 2009, with the way their die shrinks are currently going, it really doesnt seem to be a smooth transition for them. If they are wrestling with 65 nm they are going to have a much harder time with a smaller lithography process. The grand fact of the matter is, Intel will have quad cores out this year, AMD wont. They may claim they can do it how ever, they would never even come close to being on the same level of pricing, as they will have much higher die sizes then the kentsfield, because they will be manufacturing them under 90 nm.
July 21, 2006 2:10:40 PM

Quote:
Just read this and thought i'd spread it lol.
THG Article
If they do get things out faster without compromising quality this bodes well for my decision to buy AM2 with the x2 5000+ for now then buy an uber cpu in like a year. Draw your own conclusions from this.... maybe AMD's developement is ahead of schedual or they have no choice and are desperate to compete with intel... I think they will pull through and come out with quality products... how about you? :?:

EDIT:sorry i had to change to title to attract more attention, and now i'll get flamed lol :p  :wink: 8)



I disagreed though with Toms assessment of how much of a price drop they need. You can take the 51% he suggests and instead of normalizing for a P4, he shooul dtake into accout that 95% of Intel's stock is soemthing people don't want. Especially now that Core 2 is cheap.

Your forgetting about the biggest market out there, and that would be med, large and corp business. They have large amount of computers in there offices and large scale of them use the P4 or Celerons. Intel would be very stupid to force them to upgrade from there current setups to the newer arch C2D. With this large supply's of P4 and Celerons still around and becoming very cheap if these sectors want to upgrade they can easily do it still without change MB. Which saves time and money for there IT departments. Intel was very smart about this move and only putting out around 25% of there current ability to produce CPU's towards Core 2 bases Arch.

Can't just look at the small picture. Must look at the whole picture and there is many, many sides to it. Home PCs is and will always be low end returns for Intel. They have many large company's that would drop them if they forced them to upgrade every time they brought out a new CPU. AMD is the same was as well. They finally are getting a good foot hold in this area so they have to be carefully as well. Main reason why they try so hard to make sure everything is future profit. But that has draw backs as well. But this isn't the place to go into that.


Just don't send me one. That will mean world of hurt for Dell again. They have reported they were under the expected for Q2. I don't mind low end btu a lowend MAD is much higher than a low end Intel.

But hey, voila, Core 2 just made everythng low end. Intel AND AMD. Not as much for perf but for price. It should be illegal for them to undervalue the market like this. Only server prices will survive and AMD has astounding growth for Opteron. This will be a big help as 8xx chips ASP is about $1700. 2xx ASP is about $1000.

I wish they could move 3600+ into Sempron's spot and keep prices afloat. I just think this is the wrong time for a movelike this. How can teh OEMs make any money with prices this low. The bottom had already fallen out of mainstream HDs and GPUs. EVen though a lot of thinsg require better GPUs and faster HDs, none of them work without the CPU.

It's OK if 6700 is $700 since most people don't need more than 6300 and those that do will spend the money as they always have.

I'lll look for Dells earnign report. I saw a quick flash that they didn't do well.
July 21, 2006 2:22:35 PM

Quote:
45 nm will not come out in 2008 for amd, they havent even got working 65 nm prototypes.


Prove it.
July 21, 2006 2:26:58 PM

....you know I cannot prove it, how ever when 2008 rolls around and amd doesnt have working silicon under 45 nm then I will prove it to you, this may sound errogant, but honestly looking at the way things are currently going for amd and their 65 nm process, them stating they will have 45 nn in 2008 is just a crock of shit.
July 21, 2006 2:37:00 PM

Why can't you spell 'schedule' right?
July 21, 2006 2:43:39 PM

Quote:
This conference call sounded like some major damage control to me. I hope their transition to 45nm goes better than 65nm. Just don't know how they are gonna go 45nm ahead of schedule when 65nm has been such a nightmare for them. Have 65nm cpu's even been sampled yet?

I think more than anything, right now they are doing everything possible to keep investors from jumping ship.

These targets they have set are so high, they are gonna need a lot of hard work as well as good luck to pull it off.
Not only that, but they have clowns like MMM, Sharikou,BaronMatrix,GottaLoveIMC,MrsD(MrsBytch) and others making them look foolish. :?


Look at what you did to Intel. No one used to come here but you guys. Now there are noobs all the time and they even make points.

I have time and again predicted exactly what would happen with the PC market and your obvious jealousy has gotten the better of you.


get over it.
July 21, 2006 2:57:09 PM

Baron... you cannot be serious. You actually think that amd can make this roadmap ? that they can live up to what they are saying considering the following. The have yet to get 65 nm prototypes working, traditionally getting the yeilds up from prototypes and perfecting the process takes 1 year. Amd stating they will have 65 nm by the end of this year is absolutely ridiculous. K8L will not make it by mid 2007, guaranteed, they need a smaller lithography process in order to make that core economically friendly, as they are doubling the fpu units blah blah blah, also the l2 and l3 cache being on the same die is going to be expensive. The thing about intel releasing quad cores this year, is they have working kentsfields, everyone who went to computex saw these working flawlessly, we are seeing coolaler at the xtremesystems.com forums benching it and they are quite breath taking. Amd has yet to show any sign of proof of 65nm, torrenza, K8L, or any future technology for that matter, and its not them keeping things quiet, they just have nothing to show for it.
July 21, 2006 3:01:43 PM

Quote:
This conference call sounded like some major damage control to me. I hope their transition to 45nm goes better than 65nm. Just don't know how they are gonna go 45nm ahead of schedule when 65nm has been such a nightmare for them. Have 65nm cpu's even been sampled yet?

I think more than anything, right now they are doing everything possible to keep investors from jumping ship.

These targets they have set are so high, they are gonna need a lot of hard work as well as good luck to pull it off.
Not only that, but they have clowns like MMM, Sharikou,BaronMatrix,GottaLoveIMC,MrsD(MrsBytch) and others making them look foolish. :?


Look at what you did to Intel. No one used to come here but you guys. Now there are noobs all the time and they even make points.

I have time and again predicted exactly what would happen with the PC market and your obvious jealousy has gotten the better of you.


get over it.

You have only been posting here for half a year... not much time has gone by, so those must of been very short range predictions when you state time and time again... :roll: :roll:
July 21, 2006 3:12:11 PM

Quote:
This conference call sounded like some major damage control to me. I hope their transition to 45nm goes better than 65nm. Just don't know how they are gonna go 45nm ahead of schedule when 65nm has been such a nightmare for them. Have 65nm cpu's even been sampled yet?

I think more than anything, right now they are doing everything possible to keep investors from jumping ship.

These targets they have set are so high, they are gonna need a lot of hard work as well as good luck to pull it off.
Not only that, but they have clowns like MMM, Sharikou,BaronMatrix,GottaLoveIMC,MrsD(MrsBytch) and others making them look foolish. :?


Look at what you did to Intel. No one used to come here but you guys. Now there are noobs all the time and they even make points.

I have time and again predicted exactly what would happen with the PC market and your obvious jealousy has gotten the better of you.


get over it.

if you can't provide us any link of your prediction, then your post and even you we're owned... o_0
July 21, 2006 3:13:31 PM

Could you kindly point to the websites which showed that AMD 65W and 35W parts consume more than Core 2 Duo?
July 21, 2006 3:20:43 PM

Quote:
A roadmap is easy to make, following through with it, sometimes not so.


Correctamundo! There is a difference between dreams and reality much of the time.
July 21, 2006 3:31:04 PM

Quote:
These targets they have set are so high, they are gonna need a lot of hard work as well as good luck to pull it off.


Agreed. But I'd rather see them shoot for the moon rather than roll over and take a beer break. Look at what Floyd Landis puled off yesterday in the Tour! One day previous, he got his butt handed to him in a basket but rather than give up, he retrenched and delivered a legendary performance. Sure, the Tour has nothing to do with CPU development - my point is about determination and the power of human spirit. So I won't sit here and claim that AMD cannot deliver. Instead, I'll plan my Conroe purchase patiently and hope AMD can deliver a counterpunch. If competition between Intel and AMD remains hard and heavy, we're all in for a fun ride. Wouldn't it be cool to see Moore's Law underestimate the next decade?
July 21, 2006 3:34:40 PM

Quote:
Chief executive officer Hector Ruiz summarized the current situation by saying that the microprocessor industry has entered a "new stage of transition" and a "world of differentiation." The microprocessor market has moved away from benchmarks, he said, and is now in a phase of "innovation", "choice" and "open and fair competition".


That bit is funny, apparently performance no longer matters. LOL betterdig out my old thunderbird 500 then :D 
July 21, 2006 4:01:12 PM

Quote:
Chief executive officer Hector Ruiz summarized the current situation by saying that the microprocessor industry has entered a "new stage of transition" and a "world of differentiation." The microprocessor market has moved away from benchmarks, he said, and is now in a phase of "innovation", "choice" and "open and fair competition".


That bit is funny, apparently performance no longer matters. LOL betterdig out my old thunderbird 500 then :D 

I don't think he meant that... I think he means that many changes like die shrinkage and quad-core and whatever else are coming and its not just about increasing clock speeds....

P.S Stop making fun of my 4am spelling :oops:  :wink:
July 21, 2006 4:08:33 PM

Quote:
Baron... you cannot be serious. You actually think that amd can make this roadmap ? that they can live up to what they are saying considering the following. The have yet to get 65 nm prototypes working, traditionally getting the yeilds up from prototypes and perfecting the process takes 1 year. Amd stating they will have 65 nm by the end of this year is absolutely ridiculous. K8L will not make it by mid 2007, guaranteed, they need a smaller lithography process in order to make that core economically friendly, as they are doubling the fpu units blah blah blah, also the l2 and l3 cache being on the same die is going to be expensive.



Criticize AMD (or Intel for that matter) when they actually fail to produce. Not when you think they might fail to produce. Complain in 2007/2008 that they didn't reach their roadmap goals, not now. When you say stuff like that, what you say is no better than BM's absurd and unsubstantiated claims.
July 21, 2006 4:19:02 PM

You're the one who thinks Intel would be making a smart move by increasing the Core 2 Duo's clockspeed to its limits. :roll:
July 21, 2006 4:34:44 PM

Quote:
Just read this and thought i'd spread it lol.
THG Article
If they do get things out faster without compromising quality this bodes well for my decision to buy AM2 with the x2 5000+ for now then buy an uber cpu in like a year.


If your goal is performance, then, IMO, it doesn't make a much since to buy based on the hope that AMD will have something better in a year or so.

(Edit: For some reason, I thought K8L was different than the quad core architecture, which I knew was coming out next year. Not sure what Quad core means for mainstream users.)

Then again, with the price cuts, the AMDs have a very nice price/performance ratio. Of course, the performance benefits of an AM3 MB for AM3 CPUs may make upgrading MB's necessary, even though the AM2 will work.

All these questions make me very happy that I bought a 939 last year....my only choice is to upgrade to an X2 and sit out the AM2 and conroe generation :D 
July 21, 2006 4:36:09 PM

Long time lurker here. I can't believe how childish people here are. You have really done a great job at showing how immature people can be.

Now on to my comments about AMD:

1. AMD has been known to be secretive about where they are in various steps of the process. We DO NOT know if they have any working 65nm dies or not. What we do know is that Fab 36 is ready to go to 65nm this fall and Fab 30 when its rebuilt will be 65nm. Also AMD has external sources that has 65nm facilities ready to go, but are at 90nm right now.

2. Everyone keeps forgetting that AMD is in a partnership with IBM to develop processors. IBM has created some great innovations to the CPU market such as strained silicon. Plus with IBM being able to decrease the size of the transistor, this will most likely fall into the hands of AMD.

3. Price wars has been around as long as the free market has been around. I really don't read much into the current price wars other than Intel wanting to clear out their inventory of the crap that they have. If a company has 1000 widgets that only perform to a certain level but new widgets are coming out that are better, of course the company is going to go to fire sale prices to clear out the inventory.

4. I DO NOT trust any processor that has been shipped out prior to market release. I believe the companies are going to send out the best of the batch and hide the problem ones from the testers. That being said, I do not care much for what Tom's or anyone else says about the new offerings from Intel. These are untested in long term tests. Short term tests mean nothing to me. I want a processor that I know I can leave on 24/7 without fail and knowing that I have something reliable.

5. I do not agree with comparing a new processor with what is out there. That does not tell me anything other than its an improvemetn which I all ready assume (unless real life shows otherwise). Now if what Intel has released is a response to the FX series or the X2, then okay, but if its suppose to take it to the next level, then we need to see what is being offered next by AMD in their product line when it is released to the public.

What sold me years ago on AMD was the fact when I once (the last time) I purchased a desk top and the people that built it put the wrong voltage on the CPU and the machine would not work right, once the voltage was put to the proper setting, that CPU worked for 2 years without fail. I never had a problem. What has also sold me on AMD is that I had two processors overhead, both times they replaced the cpu without question. The last time, they actually upgraded me from a 2400 to a 2600 free of charge. This is the type of service that I look for. Has anyone had this type of experience with Intel? The main reason I don't buy Intel is because I DO NOT want to pay the premium for the name Intel. With all the bad processors they have pushed onto the consumer over the years, it is going to take more than a few tests of a CPU that has not been vetted out in public yet to even consider them.

That being said, both companies have stumbled. It is all a question of how they pick themselves up and move forward. I look forward to the coming year and all the new technology that is going to be coming out.
July 21, 2006 4:41:23 PM

Quote:
Baron... you cannot be serious. You actually think that amd can make this roadmap ? that they can live up to what they are saying considering the following. The have yet to get 65 nm prototypes working, traditionally getting the yeilds up from prototypes and perfecting the process takes 1 year. Amd stating they will have 65 nm by the end of this year is absolutely ridiculous. K8L will not make it by mid 2007, guaranteed, they need a smaller lithography process in order to make that core economically friendly, as they are doubling the fpu units blah blah blah, also the l2 and l3 cache being on the same die is going to be expensive. The thing about intel releasing quad cores this year, is they have working kentsfields, everyone who went to computex saw these working flawlessly, we are seeing coolaler at the xtremesystems.com forums benching it and they are quite breath taking. Amd has yet to show any sign of proof of 65nm, torrenza, K8L, or any future technology for that matter, and its not them keeping things quiet, they just have nothing to show for it.


now i don't have a link but i heard AMD will be shipping 65nm samples soon, very soon, like august maybe. So if thats true, then i think they will at least be close to making this roadmap. I seriously doubt they are solely doing this as a moral boost because if they don't make it and are extremely late, that would hurt them more than sticking with the original plan. BTW your an idiot.
July 21, 2006 4:43:19 PM

Quote:
This conference call sounded like some major damage control to me. I hope their transition to 45nm goes better than 65nm. Just don't know how they are gonna go 45nm ahead of schedule when 65nm has been such a nightmare for them. Have 65nm cpu's even been sampled yet?

I think more than anything, right now they are doing everything possible to keep investors from jumping ship.

These targets they have set are so high, they are gonna need a lot of hard work as well as good luck to pull it off.
Not only that, but they have clowns like MMM, Sharikou,BaronMatrix,GottaLoveIMC,MrsD(MrsBytch) and others making them look foolish. :?


Look at what you did to Intel. No one used to come here but you guys. Now there are noobs all the time and they even make points.

I have time and again predicted exactly what would happen with the PC market and your obvious jealousy has gotten the better of you.


get over it.

BM, if you're so confident in your predicition capabilities, why don't you take up my offer? It still stands.
July 21, 2006 4:43:53 PM

Quote:
Just read this and thought i'd spread it lol.
THG Article
If they do get things out faster without compromising quality this bodes well for my decision to buy AM2 with the x2 5000+ for now then buy an uber cpu in like a year. Draw your own conclusions from this.... maybe AMD's developement is ahead of schedual or they have no choice and are desperate to compete with intel... I think they will pull through and come out with quality products... how about you? :?:

EDIT:sorry i had to change to title to attract more attention, and now i'll get flamed lol :p  :wink: 8)



I disagreed though with Toms assessment of how much of a price drop they need. You can take the 51% he suggests and instead of normalizing for a P4, he shooul dtake into accout that 95% of Intel's stock is soemthing people don't want. Especially now that Core 2 is cheap.

Your forgetting about the biggest market out there, and that would be med, large and corp business. They have large amount of computers in there offices and large scale of them use the P4 or Celerons. Intel would be very stupid to force them to upgrade from there current setups to the newer arch C2D. With this large supply's of P4 and Celerons still around and becoming very cheap if these sectors want to upgrade they can easily do it still without change MB. Which saves time and money for there IT departments. Intel was very smart about this move and only putting out around 25% of there current ability to produce CPU's towards Core 2 bases Arch.

Can't just look at the small picture. Must look at the whole picture and there is many, many sides to it. Home PCs is and will always be low end returns for Intel. They have many large company's that would drop them if they forced them to upgrade every time they brought out a new CPU. AMD is the same was as well. They finally are getting a good foot hold in this area so they have to be carefully as well. Main reason why they try so hard to make sure everything is future profit. But that has draw backs as well. But this isn't the place to go into that.


Just don't send me one. That will mean world of hurt for Dell again. They have reported they were under the expected for Q2. I don't mind low end btu a lowend MAD is much higher than a low end Intel.

But hey, voila, Core 2 just made everythng low end. Intel AND AMD. Not as much for perf but for price. It should be illegal for them to undervalue the market like this. Only server prices will survive and AMD has astounding growth for Opteron. This will be a big help as 8xx chips ASP is about $1700. 2xx ASP is about $1000.

I wish they could move 3600+ into Sempron's spot and keep prices afloat. I just think this is the wrong time for a movelike this. How can teh OEMs make any money with prices this low. The bottom had already fallen out of mainstream HDs and GPUs. EVen though a lot of thinsg require better GPUs and faster HDs, none of them work without the CPU.

It's OK if 6700 is $700 since most people don't need more than 6300 and those that do will spend the money as they always have.

I'lll look for Dells earnign report. I saw a quick flash that they didn't do well.


Why should it be illegal? Its called capitalism my friend!
July 21, 2006 4:54:14 PM

Well I disagree, at the very least with 65nm they have been late. The fact they havnt shown any samples yet makes it hard to believe they have It right around the corner. Also for quad core, Its realy looking bad performance wise, without a new arch it will not beat Intel's quad core. As for KL8 it may or may not be out the door at the apointed time, Its a revamp rather than something new so I doubt It will be late, but thats just me.
July 21, 2006 4:58:11 PM

"Long time lurker here. I can't believe how childish people here are. You have really done a great job at showing how immature people can be.

Now on to my comments about AMD:

1. AMD has been known to be secretive about where they are in various steps of the process. We DO NOT know if they have any working 65nm dies or not. What we do know is that Fab 36 is ready to go to 65nm this fall and Fab 30 when its rebuilt will be 65nm. Also AMD has external sources that has 65nm facilities ready to go, but are at 90nm right now."

Considering their stock has been plummeting recently (with no end in sight), I would assume they would announce anything they could to help give investors enough confidence not to cut and run. So far, they've only released rumors that have been pretty well squelched by multiple sites. As Intel releases better products, AMD has been releasing as much press as they can somewhat back-up (Fab announcements, possible roadmaps, etc.).

"2. Everyone keeps forgetting that AMD is in a partnership with IBM to develop processors. IBM has created some great innovations to the CPU market such as strained silicon. Plus with IBM being able to decrease the size of the transistor, this will most likely fall into the hands of AMD."

Unfortunately, this is a pretty big "what if". We need better results rather than speculation, and the market reflects that sentiment.

"3. Price wars has been around as long as the free market has been around. I really don't read much into the current price wars other than Intel wanting to clear out their inventory of the crap that they have. If a company has 1000 widgets that only perform to a certain level but new widgets are coming out that are better, of course the company is going to go to fire sale prices to clear out the inventory."

I think Intel is clearning inventory (or trying...inventory trends for Intel have not been favorable - but that's the way the industry is going with emerging markets - more products for cheaper), but I also believe they are trying to put in the screws a bit. Their new product lineup has left no gap for AMD to say "we have a product at this pricepoint and intel has no answer". The Core combined with Pentium and Celeron give a very widespread product mix that gives us (consumers) more options than we've had previously. And ASPs in general seem to be going south a bit.

"4. I DO NOT trust any processor that has been shipped out prior to market release. I believe the companies are going to send out the best of the batch and hide the problem ones from the testers. That being said, I do not care much for what Tom's or anyone else says about the new offerings from Intel. These are untested in long term tests. Short term tests mean nothing to me. I want a processor that I know I can leave on 24/7 without fail and knowing that I have something reliable."

Yes and no. Engineering samples SHOULD be the best of the current stepping, but they're usually just the first stepping. The future steppings add quite a bit of enhancements and some extra stability. Plus, when a chip is released, there are more platform solutions that may provide better performance than initial reports. pre-releases do they're job - create anticipation and excitement, but aren't accurate one way or the other. They give a ballpark idea though.

"5. I do not agree with comparing a new processor with what is out there. That does not tell me anything other than its an improvemetn which I all ready assume (unless real life shows otherwise). Now if what Intel has released is a response to the FX series or the X2, then okay, but if its suppose to take it to the next level, then we need to see what is being offered next by AMD in their product line when it is released to the public."

No, you can't do that. Here's a simple example. Let's say AMD has been spanking Intel with a chip for a year (call it A). Intel now releases a chip (B) that spanks AMD performance wise and also is targeted to be on par performance wise with AMD's next chip. If Intel's chip B is the same price as AMD's chip A, then it's more than fair to compare B to A and not force B to be compared to AMD's next chip. That's exactly the situation we see now. AMD can NOT afford to drop their prices of current processors enough to compete with Intel right now. They must release something new and price it accordingly with Intel. By that time, Intel will probably drop prices again - they have been much more viscious lately with pricing than I can remember.

"What sold me years ago on AMD was the fact when I once (the last time) I purchased a desk top and the people that built it put the wrong voltage on the CPU and the machine would not work right, once the voltage was put to the proper setting, that CPU worked for 2 years without fail. I never had a problem. What has also sold me on AMD is that I had two processors overhead, both times they replaced the cpu without question. The last time, they actually upgraded me from a 2400 to a 2600 free of charge. This is the type of service that I look for. Has anyone had this type of experience with Intel? The main reason I don't buy Intel is because I DO NOT want to pay the premium for the name Intel. With all the bad processors they have pushed onto the consumer over the years, it is going to take more than a few tests of a CPU that has not been vetted out in public yet to even consider them."

Bad processor is a relative term. Intel has more history of good, stable processors than AMD (who has some history of stability issues). They aren't the 5th largest brand in the world because people like to pay more for inferior products. Prescott was hot and was rushed to market to compete with AMD. Will Prescotts still provide stability and last longer than you'd actually want to wait before upgrading? Almost positive (nothing's 100%). Intel builds their chips to last a good 10 years. Although we would probably never consider using a chip for 10 years, lots of people might (schools, elderly, etc.).

"That being said, both companies have stumbled. It is all a question of how they pick themselves up and move forward. I look forward to the coming year and all the new technology that is going to be coming out."

I agree. Intel is doing huge restructuring to focus on what's important (6 years on the same basic arch is not exactly innovative). AMD has been sitting quiet for awhile - they are either hiding something fantastic or they have restructuring of their own to do. I hope it's the first one. They've had to fight for their place in the semiconductor world and they'll keep fighting.
July 21, 2006 5:02:43 PM

Quote:

Now on to my comments about AMD:

3. Price wars has been around as long as the free market has been around. I really don't read much into the current price wars other than Intel wanting to clear out their inventory of the crap that they have. If a company has 1000 widgets that only perform to a certain level but new widgets are coming out that are better, of course the company is going to go to fire sale prices to clear out the inventory.


True, but the Core 2 chips are relatively inexpensive too.

Quote:

4. I DO NOT trust any processor that has been shipped out prior to market release. I believe the companies are going to send out the best of the batch and hide the problem ones from the testers. That being said, I do not care much for what Tom's or anyone else says about the new offerings from Intel. These are untested in long term tests. Short term tests mean nothing to me. I want a processor that I know I can leave on 24/7 without fail and knowing that I have something reliable.


Sure, but for most of us, our processors are going to sit largely idle, even if they're on 24/7. And even if a chip does go bad -- I've had one of my desktop CPUs go bad in 20+ years, a celeron 300 -- it's probably under warranty (I never buy OEM....they're not that much cheaper than retail).

Quote:

5. I do not agree with comparing a new processor with what is out there. That does not tell me anything other than its an improvemetn which I all ready assume (unless real life shows otherwise). Now if what Intel has released is a response to the FX series or the X2, then okay, but if its suppose to take it to the next level, then we need to see what is being offered next by AMD in their product line when it is released to the public.


Kinda silly to wait for AMD to release their next processor, don't you think? The next AMD release is 8-12 months away. At that point, should we compare it to the next Intel release that's 8 to 12 months away? Of course not. You compare it to what's currently out there, unless a competitive product is coming out soon.

Quote:

What has also sold me on AMD is that I had two processors overhead, both times they replaced the cpu without question. The last time, they actually upgraded me from a 2400 to a 2600 free of charge. This is the type of


Intel does the same thing if it's under warranty.

Quote:

The main reason I don't buy Intel is because I DO NOT want to pay the
premium for the name Intel. With all the bad processors they have pushed
Quote:
's been AMD that gets the premium. And while the price cuts will certainly help AMD stay in the price/perf hunt (arguably in the lead), Intel's chips are hardly selling for much of a premium over Comparable AMDs.
onto the consumer over the years, it is going to take more than a few tests of a CPU that has not been vetted out in public yet to even consider them.

Quote:

That being said, both companies have stumbled. It is all a question of how they pick themselves up and move forward. I look forward to the coming year and all the new technology that is going to be coming out.


Me too. All of this is fun to talk about, but the reality is that I'm sitting out this generation of processors, including K8L.
July 21, 2006 5:07:44 PM

Quote:
Baron... you cannot be serious. You actually think that amd can make this roadmap ? that they can live up to what they are saying considering the following. The have yet to get 65 nm prototypes working, traditionally getting the yeilds up from prototypes and perfecting the process takes 1 year. Amd stating they will have 65 nm by the end of this year is absolutely ridiculous. K8L will not make it by mid 2007, guaranteed, they need a smaller lithography process in order to make that core economically friendly, as they are doubling the fpu units blah blah blah, also the l2 and l3 cache being on the same die is going to be expensive. The thing about intel releasing quad cores this year, is they have working kentsfields, everyone who went to computex saw these working flawlessly, we are seeing coolaler at the xtremesystems.com forums benching it and they are quite breath taking. Amd has yet to show any sign of proof of 65nm, torrenza, K8L, or any future technology for that matter, and its not them keeping things quiet, they just have nothing to show for it.



it's not my dime if they don't. I can only go by what they say. Not one of us in this forum can say whether AMD has 65nm chips now or not.

According to an interview, their plan is pretty much what I figured. let the 90nm stuff sell and don't overstock their inventory. That way when 65nm comes out they could raise the clock by at least a few hundred MHz and try to push prices back up. People already pay a little extra for Energy Efficient chips.


besides if worse came to worse MS knows where their bread is buttered and could float AMD a loan like they did with Apple.
July 21, 2006 5:17:49 PM

AMD better release that quade core 4x4 cpu by next year for dirt cheap to counter the Core 2. :wink:
July 21, 2006 5:57:44 PM

Quote:
This conference call sounded like some major damage control to me. I hope their transition to 45nm goes better than 65nm. Just don't know how they are gonna go 45nm ahead of schedule when 65nm has been such a nightmare for them. Have 65nm cpu's even been sampled yet?

I think more than anything, right now they are doing everything possible to keep investors from jumping ship.

These targets they have set are so high, they are gonna need a lot of hard work as well as good luck to pull it off.
Not only that, but they have clowns like MMM, Sharikou,BaronMatrix,GottaLoveIMC,MrsD(MrsBytch) and others making them look foolish. :?


I actually think those morons work at Intel and are out to make AMD fans look like idiots.
July 21, 2006 6:44:40 PM

Quote:
I actually think those morons work at Intel and are out to make AMD fans look like idiots.


You really think Intel would stoop so low?
July 21, 2006 6:52:12 PM

Ofcourse... BUT MMM and BM are very intelligent, probably more so than the people who criticize them. I can't speak for shakirou or the others though.
July 21, 2006 7:03:38 PM

Quote:
Ofcoures... BUT MMM and BM or very intelligent, probably more so than the people who criticize them. I can speak for shakirou or the others though.



I can't quite understand what you mean by, "MMM and BM or very intelligent." You also speak for sharikou? Let me get this straight, you're saying MMM, BM and sharikou are very intelligent? I hope English isn't your first language.
July 21, 2006 8:34:25 PM

sorry i fixed it, i was rushing and screwed up. WTF is your problem anyways following me around and editing what i say you fuck! :evil:  :roll:
July 21, 2006 9:14:00 PM

Quote:
I can't quite understand what you mean by, "MMM and BM or very intelligent." You also speak for sharikou? Let me get this straight, you're saying MMM, BM and sharikou are very intelligent? I hope English isn't your first language.


If you would have posted this before he wrote it, I would be impressed (and maybe a little frightened) by your name. :lol: 
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