- Nov 12, 2005
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How much are 7600GS AGP cards
- Thread starter jamesgoddard
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I saw one at newegg for $160.
EDIT:
Link:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814130036
EDIT:
Link:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814130036
enforcerfx
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Yea i saw the same at newegg.com. Its a good middle class card if your still a AGP user, but a x800GTO is cheaper, and i think would outperform a 7600GS.
dougie_boy
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Gary_Busey
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Don't waste your money on a 7600gs. It performs about the same as an X1600XT. Go to ATI.com and get an X800XL or X850Pro from their clearance section. Both run much faster and cost less.
Gary_Busey
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Can you back that up :?: ?
X800XL is significantly faster in Oblivion, and the X850Pro can be flashed to an X850XT PE easily.
http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2746&p=7
The 7600GS performs about the same as an X1600XT in these benchmarks, and the X1600XT is much slower than an X800XL.
http://www.legionhardware.com/document.php?id=552&p=5
A 7600GS is $140 after rebate, plus shipping on NewEgg
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814130036
An X800XL is $120 with free shipping on ATI.com, and the X850Pro is $140 with free shipping on ATI.com
http://shop.ati.com/searchresults.asp?dept_id=39
cleeve
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- Mar 7, 2003
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In AGP, I might even consider a $140 7600 GS over a $120 X800 XL, if you're into OpenEXR games like Oblivion or Far Cry.
OpenEXR HDR is a very beautiful thing. Yes, the X800 XL is faster, but I've heard Ati is taking a while to ship those refurb X800 XLs.
We're talking a refurb card from a single site (the XL), compared to a soon-to-be-widely available card (the GS).
And, the 7600 GS core has a fair amount of overclocking headroom - the X800 XL doesn't have that much.
So for $140, a 7600 GS in AGP is a pretty good buy, IMHO. The XL is too, mind you... but neither is a slam dunk over the other.
P.S. Not all X850 PROs can flash to XTs. It's a specific few, unless I'm mistaken.
OpenEXR HDR is a very beautiful thing. Yes, the X800 XL is faster, but I've heard Ati is taking a while to ship those refurb X800 XLs.
We're talking a refurb card from a single site (the XL), compared to a soon-to-be-widely available card (the GS).
And, the 7600 GS core has a fair amount of overclocking headroom - the X800 XL doesn't have that much.
So for $140, a 7600 GS in AGP is a pretty good buy, IMHO. The XL is too, mind you... but neither is a slam dunk over the other.
P.S. Not all X850 PROs can flash to XTs. It's a specific few, unless I'm mistaken.
Gary_Busey
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The ATI VIVO's can. Those are the ones being sold on ATI.com. And there aren't any X800XL shipping delays, that's the X850Pro. To me, there's just to much of a performance gap for HDR to be a factor in which one I would buy.
cleeve
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So it's just the X850 PROs with the long delays? Good to know.
Sure, the performance of the X800 XL will be higher. All I'm saying is that the 7600 GS performance isn't that bad, the core is very overclockable for modders, and for some people the HDR factor is more significant than it is for you.
Personally, after playing oblivion with HDR, I couldn't imagine going back. A case can be made for both solutions, certainly.
Sure, the performance of the X800 XL will be higher. All I'm saying is that the 7600 GS performance isn't that bad, the core is very overclockable for modders, and for some people the HDR factor is more significant than it is for you.
Personally, after playing oblivion with HDR, I couldn't imagine going back. A case can be made for both solutions, certainly.
Gary_Busey
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I can see the HDR argument if you were talking about super fast cards, but when your're talking about budget cards and you're trying to squeeze the most FPS you can out of each dollar, I just don't think it's up there on the priority, especially when you can use Bloom which, while not as dramatic, offers some nice effects itself.
- Nov 12, 2005
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I would have to be mad to go for the X800XL, I have just found a 7600GS AGP now, and it's $178 less than the cheepest X800XL...
Problem is I have to buy in £ and the X800XL retails for around $370 in the UK
cleeve
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I find it is that HDR is gorgeous, couldn't imagine playing oblivion without it.
I've tested HDR on X1600's and 7600s - both of which gave really high framerates with HDR in Serious Sam and Far Cry. Oblivion was slower (like it is on every card), but playable.
So since it's a viable option I most certainly would put it as a priority. Bloom doesn't compare.
But like I said, a good argument can be made for both. It's not a slam dunk is all I'm saying.
I've tested HDR on X1600's and 7600s - both of which gave really high framerates with HDR in Serious Sam and Far Cry. Oblivion was slower (like it is on every card), but playable.
So since it's a viable option I most certainly would put it as a priority. Bloom doesn't compare.
But like I said, a good argument can be made for both. It's not a slam dunk is all I'm saying.
pauldh
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Yup Cleeve, the X800XL's have been in stock. I got mine about one week after ordering just using the free shipping method.
It's rare, but even though I see your point about OC'in and HDR, I don't really agree with you on this one. I do see the 7600GS as beeing a great addition to AGP, and the ATI deals won't stick around. At best I'd suspect X800GTO might price with the 7600GS down the road. So it's good to see NV offer something in this price range. They need a 7600GT AGP for less than $200 though to get me excited.
Anyway, While I consider 7600GT pretty equal to X850XT because of Sm3.0, I do not consider 7600GS and X800XL as anywhere near equal. Lower than a 7600GT or 6800U is really pushing the lower limits of OpenEXR HDR usefullness IMO. And in this case, The performance gap is huge when we compare stock cards. As far as HDR being a must, I'll have to try it on the X1600 pro. But I must have easily had 50+ hours of Oblivion on the 6800U and I split the time between HDR and FSAA/bloom without really thinking either setting was clearly the route to go.
I wonder just what kind of OC a 7600GS AGP will handle? Yeah, I agree, for most of the world (outside shop ATI N. Amer.) the 7600GS would be the much better option based on pricing/availability. But I'd say if you are in North America then the X800XL or X850 pro from ATI is easily the better choice. Like I said above, mine was $113 shipped and on top of that it came with everything that the BBA retail box would have including the 1 year warranty.
Anyway, for fun I hit Digit-lifes latest charts; the X800XL just spanks the 7600GS that it would have to be a massive OC to get anywhere near the X800XL overall.
Just some example and high but playable X800XL settings:
Farcry 16x12 4x/16x 38.5fps for the XL and 18.9 for the GS.
SCCT 12x10 4x/16x 37.1 for the XL and 23.4 for the GS.
HL2 16x12 4x/16x 45.7 for the XL and 39.1 for the GS.
Doom 3 12x10 4x/16x 41.0 for the XL and 28.2 for the GS
Riddick 12x10 4x/16x 29.0 for the XL and 26.3 for the GS
Fear 10x7 4x/16x 45.0 for the XL and 29.0 for the GS
COD2 10x7 no aa/af 35.2 for the XL and 28.8 for the GS.
It's a clean sweep for the XL including Riddick and Doom 3 even. And in Farcry it's a 100% increase. And Oblivion is a landslide with the 7600GS showing some pretty pitiful results in Anands medium settings tests. At 10x7 medium in their gate test the 7600GS only managed 19 fps with bloom and 16 fps average with HDR. The XL in contrast barely dipped under 30fps for a low with bloom. It would be hard to justify other huge sacrifices in other areas just to get HDR playable with the GS. Actually, it's more than HDR, as even bloom the 7600GS dogged.
Anyway, got carried away here with a long one. I obviously trust your opinion, so the fact we both see it differently supports your statement that a case can be made either way. (man that would have been an easy short response) :roll:
It's rare, but even though I see your point about OC'in and HDR, I don't really agree with you on this one. I do see the 7600GS as beeing a great addition to AGP, and the ATI deals won't stick around. At best I'd suspect X800GTO might price with the 7600GS down the road. So it's good to see NV offer something in this price range. They need a 7600GT AGP for less than $200 though to get me excited.
Anyway, While I consider 7600GT pretty equal to X850XT because of Sm3.0, I do not consider 7600GS and X800XL as anywhere near equal. Lower than a 7600GT or 6800U is really pushing the lower limits of OpenEXR HDR usefullness IMO. And in this case, The performance gap is huge when we compare stock cards. As far as HDR being a must, I'll have to try it on the X1600 pro. But I must have easily had 50+ hours of Oblivion on the 6800U and I split the time between HDR and FSAA/bloom without really thinking either setting was clearly the route to go.
I wonder just what kind of OC a 7600GS AGP will handle? Yeah, I agree, for most of the world (outside shop ATI N. Amer.) the 7600GS would be the much better option based on pricing/availability. But I'd say if you are in North America then the X800XL or X850 pro from ATI is easily the better choice. Like I said above, mine was $113 shipped and on top of that it came with everything that the BBA retail box would have including the 1 year warranty.
Anyway, for fun I hit Digit-lifes latest charts; the X800XL just spanks the 7600GS that it would have to be a massive OC to get anywhere near the X800XL overall.
Just some example and high but playable X800XL settings:
Farcry 16x12 4x/16x 38.5fps for the XL and 18.9 for the GS.
SCCT 12x10 4x/16x 37.1 for the XL and 23.4 for the GS.
HL2 16x12 4x/16x 45.7 for the XL and 39.1 for the GS.
Doom 3 12x10 4x/16x 41.0 for the XL and 28.2 for the GS
Riddick 12x10 4x/16x 29.0 for the XL and 26.3 for the GS
Fear 10x7 4x/16x 45.0 for the XL and 29.0 for the GS
COD2 10x7 no aa/af 35.2 for the XL and 28.8 for the GS.
It's a clean sweep for the XL including Riddick and Doom 3 even. And in Farcry it's a 100% increase. And Oblivion is a landslide with the 7600GS showing some pretty pitiful results in Anands medium settings tests. At 10x7 medium in their gate test the 7600GS only managed 19 fps with bloom and 16 fps average with HDR. The XL in contrast barely dipped under 30fps for a low with bloom. It would be hard to justify other huge sacrifices in other areas just to get HDR playable with the GS. Actually, it's more than HDR, as even bloom the 7600GS dogged.
Anyway, got carried away here with a long one. I obviously trust your opinion, so the fact we both see it differently supports your statement that a case can be made either way. (man that would have been an easy short response) :roll:
cleeve
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Don't get me wrong, I hear what you guys are saying. At equal detail levels the XL will hurt a GS real bad.
But I think it might be worth lowering a bit of detail/res to use HDR in a few particular cases is all.
The XL is an awesome deal, there's no doubt, but what happens when Ati's supply dries up? They stopped making them some time ago haven't they? The cheap XLs and PROs can't last forever, can they?
I think the 7600 GS and GT will be welcome additions to the AGP stable for alot of people, the X1700 will be nice to see too.
But I think it might be worth lowering a bit of detail/res to use HDR in a few particular cases is all.
The XL is an awesome deal, there's no doubt, but what happens when Ati's supply dries up? They stopped making them some time ago haven't they? The cheap XLs and PROs can't last forever, can they?
I think the 7600 GS and GT will be welcome additions to the AGP stable for alot of people, the X1700 will be nice to see too.
pauldh
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I started my book without seeing some of you more recent posts. Yeah I can agree with you on all points on your last post there.
My issue with Oblivion isn't "is HDR better than Bloom". yes, I like HDR alot in Oblivion. My issues is I hate no FSAA at 10x7. I'm telling you, in a game where you talk to 10,000 people (so it seems), it drives me batty to see the drastic jaggies of peoples faces up close while you talk to them. So my issue is, "is HDR better than FSAA/bloom"? Is it worth lower details, no fsaa, and beautiful HDR (7600GS) as opposed to higher details, fsaa, and bloom(X800XL)?
I love running both with the X1800XT. Otherwise, those jaggie face get on my nerves, hense my feeling that the X8xx series is still very good options for Oblivion. You can't try HDR to see which you prefer, but you also don't have to worry about not being satisfied either way as you jump back and forth between both options.
My issue with Oblivion isn't "is HDR better than Bloom". yes, I like HDR alot in Oblivion. My issues is I hate no FSAA at 10x7. I'm telling you, in a game where you talk to 10,000 people (so it seems), it drives me batty to see the drastic jaggies of peoples faces up close while you talk to them. So my issue is, "is HDR better than FSAA/bloom"? Is it worth lower details, no fsaa, and beautiful HDR (7600GS) as opposed to higher details, fsaa, and bloom(X800XL)?
I love running both with the X1800XT. Otherwise, those jaggie face get on my nerves, hense my feeling that the X8xx series is still very good options for Oblivion. You can't try HDR to see which you prefer, but you also don't have to worry about not being satisfied either way as you jump back and forth between both options.
Gary_Busey
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pauldh
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I got 2xaa to work in both. I never compared screenies and framerates to see if 4xaa worked in Oblivion, (which I should look into in depth like farcry), but as you know that was a no go in farcry. Actually scratch that, I am almost certain 4x did work in Oblivion as that's the way I first used the chuck patch. I'll have to take some screenies. One thing, farcry was frustrating to get it working as I felt I was trying everything too. That's why I PM'ed you out of sheer frustration.
I think I set HDR=0 and then exited the game
in the farcry config utility, I set fsaa to 2x. Then entered the game and made sure fsaa was 2x in the display options. While in the menu I then did the fsaa 2 command prompt and then the HDR 7 command prompt. You can turn HDR on and off while playing, but need to exit/restart the game for fsaa. I did not have 2x forced in the driver like with Oblivion.
What driver version are you using? I have stuck to Cat 6.3 with 6.3 chuckpatch so far. It works with the X1900XTX and X1800XL but not the X1800GTO? Could it be a newer driver than you past attempts?
I think I set HDR=0 and then exited the game
in the farcry config utility, I set fsaa to 2x. Then entered the game and made sure fsaa was 2x in the display options. While in the menu I then did the fsaa 2 command prompt and then the HDR 7 command prompt. You can turn HDR on and off while playing, but need to exit/restart the game for fsaa. I did not have 2x forced in the driver like with Oblivion.
What driver version are you using? I have stuck to Cat 6.3 with 6.3 chuckpatch so far. It works with the X1900XTX and X1800XL but not the X1800GTO? Could it be a newer driver than you past attempts?
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