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How much are 7600GS AGP cards

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July 21, 2006 11:09:00 AM

Quote:
Choose the 7600GS AGP, came out today!


I can't find them anywhere, anyone know a price?

More about : 7600gs agp cards

July 21, 2006 1:12:30 PM

Yea i saw the same at newegg.com. Its a good middle class card if your still a AGP user, but a x800GTO is cheaper, and i think would outperform a 7600GS.
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July 21, 2006 1:14:49 PM

X800GTO might not outperform it, but the X800XL probably can, and it's about $120 at ATI.
July 21, 2006 1:43:35 PM

Quote:
Choose the 7600GS AGP, came out today!


I can't find them anywhere, anyone know a price?

google it u nonce.
July 21, 2006 1:53:04 PM

Don't waste your money on a 7600gs. It performs about the same as an X1600XT. Go to ATI.com and get an X800XL or X850Pro from their clearance section. Both run much faster and cost less.
July 21, 2006 3:21:42 PM

Quote:
Go to ATI.com and get an X800XL or X850Pro from their clearance section. Both run much faster and cost less.
Can you back that up :?: ?
July 21, 2006 4:16:46 PM

Quote:
Go to ATI.com and get an X800XL or X850Pro from their clearance section. Both run much faster and cost less.
Can you back that up :?: ?

X800XL is significantly faster in Oblivion, and the X850Pro can be flashed to an X850XT PE easily.

http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2746&p=7

The 7600GS performs about the same as an X1600XT in these benchmarks, and the X1600XT is much slower than an X800XL.

http://www.legionhardware.com/document.php?id=552&p=5

A 7600GS is $140 after rebate, plus shipping on NewEgg
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E1681...

An X800XL is $120 with free shipping on ATI.com, and the X850Pro is $140 with free shipping on ATI.com
http://shop.ati.com/searchresults.asp?dept_id=39
July 21, 2006 4:35:21 PM

In AGP, I might even consider a $140 7600 GS over a $120 X800 XL, if you're into OpenEXR games like Oblivion or Far Cry.

OpenEXR HDR is a very beautiful thing. Yes, the X800 XL is faster, but I've heard Ati is taking a while to ship those refurb X800 XLs.

We're talking a refurb card from a single site (the XL), compared to a soon-to-be-widely available card (the GS).

And, the 7600 GS core has a fair amount of overclocking headroom - the X800 XL doesn't have that much.

So for $140, a 7600 GS in AGP is a pretty good buy, IMHO. The XL is too, mind you... but neither is a slam dunk over the other.


P.S. Not all X850 PROs can flash to XTs. It's a specific few, unless I'm mistaken.
July 21, 2006 5:26:37 PM

The ATI VIVO's can. Those are the ones being sold on ATI.com. And there aren't any X800XL shipping delays, that's the X850Pro. To me, there's just to much of a performance gap for HDR to be a factor in which one I would buy.
July 21, 2006 6:07:58 PM

So it's just the X850 PROs with the long delays? Good to know.

Sure, the performance of the X800 XL will be higher. All I'm saying is that the 7600 GS performance isn't that bad, the core is very overclockable for modders, and for some people the HDR factor is more significant than it is for you.

Personally, after playing oblivion with HDR, I couldn't imagine going back. A case can be made for both solutions, certainly.
July 21, 2006 6:22:57 PM

Quote:
Personally, after playing oblivion with HDR, I couldn't imagine going back. A case can be made for both solutions, certainly.

Is it that much noticable while playing?
July 21, 2006 6:29:54 PM

I can see the HDR argument if you were talking about super fast cards, but when your're talking about budget cards and you're trying to squeeze the most FPS you can out of each dollar, I just don't think it's up there on the priority, especially when you can use Bloom which, while not as dramatic, offers some nice effects itself.
July 21, 2006 6:51:41 PM

Quote:
Go to ATI.com and get an X800XL or X850Pro from their clearance section. Both run much faster and cost less.



I would have to be mad to go for the X800XL, I have just found a 7600GS AGP now, and it's $178 less than the cheepest X800XL...

Problem is I have to buy in £ and the X800XL retails for around $370 in the UK :( 
a b U Graphics card
July 21, 2006 7:00:49 PM

Quote:
Problem is I have to buy in £ and the X800XL retails for around $370 in the UK

Ouch, yeah you would be crazy to spend that on a X800XL. I got mine from ATI without any shipping delay for $113.05 shipped. Oh well, you guys at least can buy the Gainward Bliss cards that we can't (without ordering from overseas).
July 21, 2006 7:02:16 PM

I find it is that HDR is gorgeous, couldn't imagine playing oblivion without it.

I've tested HDR on X1600's and 7600s - both of which gave really high framerates with HDR in Serious Sam and Far Cry. Oblivion was slower (like it is on every card), but playable.

So since it's a viable option I most certainly would put it as a priority. Bloom doesn't compare.

But like I said, a good argument can be made for both. It's not a slam dunk is all I'm saying.
a b U Graphics card
July 21, 2006 7:56:46 PM

Yup Cleeve, the X800XL's have been in stock. I got mine about one week after ordering just using the free shipping method.

Quote:
So for $140, a 7600 GS in AGP is a pretty good buy, IMHO. The XL is too, mind you... but neither is a slam dunk over the other.


It's rare, but even though I see your point about OC'in and HDR, I don't really agree with you on this one. I do see the 7600GS as beeing a great addition to AGP, and the ATI deals won't stick around. At best I'd suspect X800GTO might price with the 7600GS down the road. So it's good to see NV offer something in this price range. They need a 7600GT AGP for less than $200 though to get me excited.

Anyway, While I consider 7600GT pretty equal to X850XT because of Sm3.0, I do not consider 7600GS and X800XL as anywhere near equal. Lower than a 7600GT or 6800U is really pushing the lower limits of OpenEXR HDR usefullness IMO. And in this case, The performance gap is huge when we compare stock cards. As far as HDR being a must, I'll have to try it on the X1600 pro. But I must have easily had 50+ hours of Oblivion on the 6800U and I split the time between HDR and FSAA/bloom without really thinking either setting was clearly the route to go.

I wonder just what kind of OC a 7600GS AGP will handle? Yeah, I agree, for most of the world (outside shop ATI N. Amer.) the 7600GS would be the much better option based on pricing/availability. But I'd say if you are in North America then the X800XL or X850 pro from ATI is easily the better choice. Like I said above, mine was $113 shipped and on top of that it came with everything that the BBA retail box would have including the 1 year warranty.

Anyway, for fun I hit Digit-lifes latest charts; the X800XL just spanks the 7600GS that it would have to be a massive OC to get anywhere near the X800XL overall.

Just some example and high but playable X800XL settings:
Farcry 16x12 4x/16x 38.5fps for the XL and 18.9 for the GS.
SCCT 12x10 4x/16x 37.1 for the XL and 23.4 for the GS.
HL2 16x12 4x/16x 45.7 for the XL and 39.1 for the GS.
Doom 3 12x10 4x/16x 41.0 for the XL and 28.2 for the GS
Riddick 12x10 4x/16x 29.0 for the XL and 26.3 for the GS
Fear 10x7 4x/16x 45.0 for the XL and 29.0 for the GS
COD2 10x7 no aa/af 35.2 for the XL and 28.8 for the GS.

It's a clean sweep for the XL including Riddick and Doom 3 even. And in Farcry it's a 100% increase. And Oblivion is a landslide with the 7600GS showing some pretty pitiful results in Anands medium settings tests. At 10x7 medium in their gate test the 7600GS only managed 19 fps with bloom and 16 fps average with HDR. The XL in contrast barely dipped under 30fps for a low with bloom. It would be hard to justify other huge sacrifices in other areas just to get HDR playable with the GS. Actually, it's more than HDR, as even bloom the 7600GS dogged.



Anyway, got carried away here with a long one. I obviously trust your opinion, so the fact we both see it differently supports your statement that a case can be made either way. (man that would have been an easy short response) :roll:
July 21, 2006 8:06:18 PM

Don't get me wrong, I hear what you guys are saying. At equal detail levels the XL will hurt a GS real bad.

But I think it might be worth lowering a bit of detail/res to use HDR in a few particular cases is all.

The XL is an awesome deal, there's no doubt, but what happens when Ati's supply dries up? They stopped making them some time ago haven't they? The cheap XLs and PROs can't last forever, can they?

I think the 7600 GS and GT will be welcome additions to the AGP stable for alot of people, the X1700 will be nice to see too.
a b U Graphics card
July 21, 2006 8:21:39 PM

I started my book without seeing some of you more recent posts. Yeah I can agree with you on all points on your last post there.

My issue with Oblivion isn't "is HDR better than Bloom". yes, I like HDR alot in Oblivion. My issues is I hate no FSAA at 10x7. I'm telling you, in a game where you talk to 10,000 people (so it seems), it drives me batty to see the drastic jaggies of peoples faces up close while you talk to them. So my issue is, "is HDR better than FSAA/bloom"? Is it worth lower details, no fsaa, and beautiful HDR (7600GS) as opposed to higher details, fsaa, and bloom(X800XL)?

I love running both with the X1800XT. Otherwise, those jaggie face get on my nerves, hense my feeling that the X8xx series is still very good options for Oblivion. You can't try HDR to see which you prefer, but you also don't have to worry about not being satisfied either way as you jump back and forth between both options.
July 21, 2006 8:25:45 PM

ON a side note, have you ever had any problems with the chuck patch?
July 21, 2006 8:26:33 PM

I love a good debate.
a b U Graphics card
July 21, 2006 8:33:10 PM

None that I can think of. What kind of problems? In Oblivion or other games? Futuremark flags my drivers as not approved. :p 
a b U Graphics card
July 21, 2006 8:34:07 PM

I'm too long winded for a debate. :oops: 
July 21, 2006 8:41:41 PM

I've been testing an X1800 GTO and can't get it to work with HDR & AA ata the same time no matter what I do, in both Far Cry and Oblivion.
a b U Graphics card
July 21, 2006 9:08:24 PM

I got 2xaa to work in both. I never compared screenies and framerates to see if 4xaa worked in Oblivion, (which I should look into in depth like farcry), but as you know that was a no go in farcry. Actually scratch that, I am almost certain 4x did work in Oblivion as that's the way I first used the chuck patch. I'll have to take some screenies. One thing, farcry was frustrating to get it working as I felt I was trying everything too. That's why I PM'ed you out of sheer frustration. ;) 

I think I set HDR=0 and then exited the game
in the farcry config utility, I set fsaa to 2x. Then entered the game and made sure fsaa was 2x in the display options. While in the menu I then did the fsaa 2 command prompt and then the HDR 7 command prompt. You can turn HDR on and off while playing, but need to exit/restart the game for fsaa. I did not have 2x forced in the driver like with Oblivion.

What driver version are you using? I have stuck to Cat 6.3 with 6.3 chuckpatch so far. It works with the X1900XTX and X1800XL but not the X1800GTO? Could it be a newer driver than you past attempts?
July 21, 2006 9:19:30 PM

I've tried 6.6, 6.3 with chuck, and 6.6 with chuck. 3 installs of Far Cry with the 1.4 patch. No joy.

\r_fsaa sets the fsaa mode. As far as I can tell, '0' is off, '1' is on, and '2' is on with HDR.

\r_fsaa_samples sets the samples, 2, 4, etc.

and \r_hdrrendering sets the hdr level, 0 is off.

Used to work before with me.

Also tried different X1800 GTO BIOSs.

STILL NO JOY! Going nuts here...
a b U Graphics card
July 21, 2006 11:46:30 PM

Yeah, those look right Cleeve.

I first make sure that fsaa is set to application pref in control center. I did not have temporal or adaptive enabled. Then used the farcry config utility to set fsaa to 2X. Then I Enter the game and in the menu bring up the console. I just use the \r_fsaa 2 command and hit enter, then the \r_hdrrendering 7 (or whatever # you want to use) and hit enter. Exit the console and load up a save point and it works.
a b U Graphics card
July 21, 2006 11:58:49 PM

Sorry to hijack this thread, but I tested oblivion and it works no matter what I force in the drivers. I tried 2xaa, 4xaa, 6xaa, and 4x adaptive aa. Adaptive was the only one that gave a huge performance hit (outdoors).


Anway, Here are some screenies all with HDR. It shows that fsaa was working and also represents that part of Oblivion that I talked about where the jaggies bug me.

1024x768 0xaa HDR


1024x768 4xaa + HDR


Zoom 0xaa


Zoom 4xaa



As you can see the performance hit was not very large. The zoomed up pics show the facial jaggies as well as the alaising on the rock wall to the right....the 4x is much better. Also look at the alaising on the window in the 1:1 pic.

Just for those who have not played Oblivion. it's impossible to get an exact duplicate screenshot. The charactors sway, blink, move, look different directions, etc, as well as the candlelight in the room is flickering and changes the shadows and bright areas.
a b U Graphics card
July 24, 2006 2:04:30 AM

By the way, not sure if you saw this in the other thread, but there is an official farcry patch 1.4 coming out. It was supposed to be finished a month ago and just needed quality testing and release authorization. Alex on this forum should bring the news as soon as he has permission to talk about it:

http://www.crymod.com/index.php?p=showtopic&toid=4984&a...


Man, it downright better have support for AA+HDR!!!!!!!!!!!!!
July 24, 2006 2:51:03 AM

Quote:


Man, it downright better have support for AA+HDR!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yea, or you ATi guys will only have one game to brag about 8)
July 24, 2006 6:47:51 AM

Quote:

Yea, or you ATi guys will only have one game to brag about 8)


Howwzat? We could menton pretty much every other game, too... :wink:
a b U Graphics card
July 24, 2006 11:59:03 AM

:lol: 


It's ok, you'll be red again. Or else, come G90 you'll be able to do AA+HDR too. :tongue:



BWT, this is getting insane: $92 shipped now! http://shop1.outpost.com/product/4509627
a b U Graphics card
July 24, 2006 3:34:57 PM

LOL, very nice. And who knows, that cpu might have more to give. Think the Uli reached it's limits at 275MHz?
July 24, 2006 3:53:56 PM

Now see, if only that 3000+ was a damned 3200+. Those low Multi's really hurt. Hell, making 270mhz without lowering it is very nice. But if you were to make that on a 3500+, Opty 148, 170....you'd have an AMD CPU @ 3ghz....

Damn low multi's.....nice overclock though GW.
July 24, 2006 5:58:08 PM

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Think the Uli reached it's limits at 275MHz?

Deffinately :roll:

I paid so very little for this crap though that it's hard not to be happy.
July 24, 2006 5:59:15 PM

Quote:
....nice overclock though GW.

Thanx man :D 
a b U Graphics card
July 24, 2006 10:05:37 PM

Quote:
Think the Uli reached it's limits at 275MHz?

Deffinately :roll:

I paid so very little for this crap though that it's hard not to be happy.
My thoughts exactly on both points.
!