Epsons designed to stop??

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Hi - I just had this statement emailed to me by somebody who ususally knows
about these things in a professional capacity:

"Epsons are built to stop functioning when the internal counter reaches a
certain number, and you do need to be aware of this. Many people aren't.!!"

I find this very hard to believe - is it true? I have owned Epsons for many
years and never had much trouble with them - but I have never kept one
single printer for very long because I keep upgrading, so I might not have
reached the "fatal" number of prints on one machine.

Cheers
80 answers Last reply
More about epsons designed stop
  1. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    "Mike" <noot1967@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
    news:d6fqo2$2c6$1@nntp0.reith.bbc.co.uk...
    > Hi - I just had this statement emailed to me by somebody who ususally
    > knows about these things in a professional capacity:
    >
    > "Epsons are built to stop functioning when the internal counter reaches a
    > certain number, and you do need to be aware of this. Many people
    > aren't.!!"
    >
    > I find this very hard to believe - is it true? I have owned Epsons for
    > many years and never had much trouble with them - but I have never kept
    > one single printer for very long because I keep upgrading, so I might not
    > have reached the "fatal" number of prints on one machine.
    >
    > Cheers

    Nothing unusual - they have a waste ink pad inside to catch the ink used
    during cleaning cycles and when purging the printhead either when starting a
    print job or when the ink carts have been changed.. when that waste ink pad
    is full the printer stops working the pad is changed and the counter reset.
    If that didn't happen you end up with ink spilling out all over your desk.

    In the case of Epson printers its generally easy to reset the counter, but
    getting to the waste ink pads to replace or clean them can be a tricky
    process depending on the model.. and as far as I know Canon printers can't
    be reset and have to be sent in for repair or simply thrown away.
  2. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    To add to Ron Cohen
    The waste pad works by either a timer, timing the cleaning cycles, the
    length of time the printer in use etc. and 'flags' an address line
    within the CPU chip say's no more printing.

    It is not just a matter of changing the high abosrbancy waste pad,
    which is usually situated under the printer mechanism.

    If this is the case you will need to run a programme to reset the
    'flag' by inserting a code which is stated in the manual - thus
    changing the pad is only minor part of the problem, if you had the
    programme to put the printer in 'service mode' you can just reset the
    CPU with out changing the pad - BUT THIS WOULD BE VERY MESSY AS THE
    INK WOULD NOT HAVE NOWHERE TO GO.

    But you do need to be sure that this is the problem, the service mode
    will tell you all the status conditions of the printer.

    Davy
  3. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    Make that:

    "when that waste ink pad is full the printer stops working UNTIL the pad is
    changed and the counter reset. "

    etc.
  4. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    I don't think this means the printer has self destruct logic. I suspect what
    he meant is that there is a counter for the ink cartridges which estimates
    the number of droplets so as to prevent head damage from out of ink
    conditions. Installation of fresh cartridges resets the counter.
    Ron

    "Mike" <noot1967@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
    news:d6fqo2$2c6$1@nntp0.reith.bbc.co.uk...
    > Hi - I just had this statement emailed to me by somebody who ususally
    > knows about these things in a professional capacity:
    >
    > "Epsons are built to stop functioning when the internal counter reaches a
    > certain number, and you do need to be aware of this. Many people
    > aren't.!!"
    >
    > I find this very hard to believe - is it true? I have owned Epsons for
    > many years and never had much trouble with them - but I have never kept
    > one single printer for very long because I keep upgrading, so I might not
    > have reached the "fatal" number of prints on one machine.
    >
    > Cheers
    >
  5. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    I would say the person you say knows in fact has very little knowledge of
    how Epson's work otherwise they would know about waste pads and why an Epson
    has to be reset. Some people seem to think printers should run for ever and
    ever without service. You say you have never kept a printer that long
    because you upgraded, well that may also be true about Epson owners, having
    said that there are of course users who require a high output from their
    printers and it is this group that have to have machines reset even if they
    replace the pads themselves, I would think that many other makes would have
    given up completely well before an Epson requires a reset.


    "Mike" <noot1967@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
    news:d6fqo2$2c6$1@nntp0.reith.bbc.co.uk...
    > Hi - I just had this statement emailed to me by somebody who ususally
    knows
    > about these things in a professional capacity:
    >
    > "Epsons are built to stop functioning when the internal counter reaches a
    > certain number, and you do need to be aware of this. Many people
    aren't.!!"
    >
    > I find this very hard to believe - is it true? I have owned Epsons for
    many
    > years and never had much trouble with them - but I have never kept one
    > single printer for very long because I keep upgrading, so I might not have
    > reached the "fatal" number of prints on one machine.
    >
    > Cheers
    >
    >
  6. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    Shooter wrote:

    >I would say the person you say knows in fact has very little knowledge of
    >how Epson's work otherwise they would know about waste pads and why an Epson
    >has to be reset. Some people seem to think printers should run for ever and
    >ever without service. You say you have never kept a printer that long
    >because you upgraded, well that may also be true about Epson owners, having
    >said that there are of course users who require a high output from their
    >printers and it is this group that have to have machines reset even if they
    >replace the pads themselves, I would think that many other makes would have
    >given up completely well before an Epson requires a reset.
    >
    >

    These heavy users are probably using the wrong machine. I believe that
    the new 2200 (I think or maybe the 7600) has a door in the side to pull
    out and replace the pads as a consumable item like the ink is.

    >
    >"Mike" <noot1967@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
    >news:d6fqo2$2c6$1@nntp0.reith.bbc.co.uk...
    >
    >
    >>Hi - I just had this statement emailed to me by somebody who ususally
    >>
    >>
    >knows
    >
    >
    >>about these things in a professional capacity:
    >>
    >>"Epsons are built to stop functioning when the internal counter reaches a
    >>certain number, and you do need to be aware of this. Many people
    >>
    >>
    >aren't.!!"
    >
    >
    >>I find this very hard to believe - is it true? I have owned Epsons for
    >>
    >>
    >many
    >
    >
    >>years and never had much trouble with them - but I have never kept one
    >>single printer for very long because I keep upgrading, so I might not have
    >>reached the "fatal" number of prints on one machine.
    >>
    >>Cheers
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >
    >
    >
    >
  7. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    The code sequences are available on several web sites to reset many of the
    Canon waste ink counters. Emptying the receptical, however is not easy to
    do for non-technicians. people have reported resetting the counter without
    emptying the recepticle at least once without mishaps. Check
    http://www.neilslade.com/papers/inkjetstuff.html and
    http://www.nifty-stuff.com/forum/ for Canon code sequences or Google Canon
    waste ink tank full. This info might be available for the Epsons - I'd
    google it.

    "Ivor Floppy" <Ivor@somewhere.uk> wrote in message
    news:ayKie.6584$V%.3972@newsfe1-gui.ntli.net...
    >
    > "Mike" <noot1967@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
    > news:d6fqo2$2c6$1@nntp0.reith.bbc.co.uk...
    >> Hi - I just had this statement emailed to me by somebody who ususally
    >> knows about these things in a professional capacity:
    >>
    >> "Epsons are built to stop functioning when the internal counter reaches a
    >> certain number, and you do need to be aware of this. Many people
    >> aren't.!!"
    >>
    >> I find this very hard to believe - is it true? I have owned Epsons for
    >> many years and never had much trouble with them - but I have never kept
    >> one single printer for very long because I keep upgrading, so I might not
    >> have reached the "fatal" number of prints on one machine.
    >>
    >> Cheers
    >
    > Nothing unusual - they have a waste ink pad inside to catch the ink used
    > during cleaning cycles and when purging the printhead either when starting
    > a print job or when the ink carts have been changed.. when that waste ink
    > pad is full the printer stops working the pad is changed and the counter
    > reset. If that didn't happen you end up with ink spilling out all over
    > your desk.
    >
    > In the case of Epson printers its generally easy to reset the counter, but
    > getting to the waste ink pads to replace or clean them can be a tricky
    > process depending on the model.. and as far as I know Canon printers can't
    > be reset and have to be sent in for repair or simply thrown away.
    >
    >
    >
  8. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    Mike
    You don't say what the model is, are the any error lights etc. If its
    an Epson
    it should give you an error message in the drivers window after
    trying to print a document.

    Ain't an C62 by any chance, they are designed to be clodded in the
    middle of the Pacific - nah the trashbins too good.

    Davy
  9. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    All inkjets produce waste ink (in the same way laser printers produce waste
    toner). This ink has to be stored somewhere other than in the printer mechanism
    or on the paper. Different manufacturers handle this in different ways. Canon
    and Epson use a similar system of storing the waste ink in a felt like pad,
    often covering large areas of the printer base. The built in electronics
    estimate when the pad is nearing saturation and this results in the deliberate
    error message. Unfortunately Epson has in the past made this message somewhat
    obscure. The replacement of the waste ink pad is a job for someone who is
    technically experienced (especially in less recent models) and therefore they
    do not readily make the reset code available, lest someone simply resets the
    printer and does not replace the pad potentially resulting in ink all over the
    place! The codes are however available from various sources on the internet;
    use with care, most Epson printers will survive one reset without replacing the
    pads but don't blame me if your printer floods your desk! Most HP inkjets have
    cartridges with built in heads, these also produce waste which is stored in a
    service station of various types, there is no count done by most HP's inkjets
    so when the service station fills up the printhead carriage starts to
    "bulldoze" the waste ink, spreading it in a fine spray over parts of the
    printer, in severe cases ink actually starts to ooze from the printer base! HP
    provides instructions on their website for emptying many of their printer
    service stations. I suggest that anybody who has an older HP inkjet printer
    checks out the website especially if the printer covers start to subtly change
    colour around the head parking area (quite a subtle and slow change). It is a
    big job to clean out any inkjet that has become badly contaminated with ink,
    prevention is cheaper than cure!
    Tony

    "Mike" <noot1967@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
    >Hi - I just had this statement emailed to me by somebody who ususally knows
    >about these things in a professional capacity:
    >
    >"Epsons are built to stop functioning when the internal counter reaches a
    >certain number, and you do need to be aware of this. Many people aren't.!!"
    >
    >I find this very hard to believe - is it true? I have owned Epsons for many
    >years and never had much trouble with them - but I have never kept one
    >single printer for very long because I keep upgrading, so I might not have
    >reached the "fatal" number of prints on one machine.
    >
    >Cheers
    >
    >
  10. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    Just to add.
    The flashing lights quite rightly is usually a warning sign as stated
    BUT what is not mentioned is that with modern printers there's usually
    a message in the drivers window with a warning triangle or something.

    But very little indication of the actual fault and the EPSON model has
    not been given, we are only assuming that it is the waste pads as
    described.

    Mike say's that he has not had it for very long, again no indication
    how long, we don't know the model, we don't know the symptoms and we
    don't
    even know the usage.

    Just because it stopped printing don't say it's the waste pad

    So, WE only know this guy say's so
    without any further advice from this guy indicating very little
    knowledge, the type of response you get from Customer Services and
    not a Technical Department or a Printer Repair Technician.

    Davy.
  11. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    You can still get round the problem of waste pads by fitting a waste bottle.
    When I say high volume users I refer mainly to CIS users. I am at a loss to
    under stand what is the meaning of " using the wrong machine" a printer is a
    printer and even if you take the less expensive end of the market most will
    still print one photo after another.

    "measekite" <measekite@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    news:_YOie.644$mK.294@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...
    >
    >
    > Shooter wrote:
    >
    > >I would say the person you say knows in fact has very little knowledge of
    > >how Epson's work otherwise they would know about waste pads and why an
    Epson
    > >has to be reset. Some people seem to think printers should run for ever
    and
    > >ever without service. You say you have never kept a printer that long
    > >because you upgraded, well that may also be true about Epson owners,
    having
    > >said that there are of course users who require a high output from their
    > >printers and it is this group that have to have machines reset even if
    they
    > >replace the pads themselves, I would think that many other makes would
    have
    > >given up completely well before an Epson requires a reset.
    > >
    > >
    >
    > These heavy users are probably using the wrong machine. I believe that
    > the new 2200 (I think or maybe the 7600) has a door in the side to pull
    > out and replace the pads as a consumable item like the ink is.
    >
    > >
    > >"Mike" <noot1967@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
    > >news:d6fqo2$2c6$1@nntp0.reith.bbc.co.uk...
    > >
    > >
    > >>Hi - I just had this statement emailed to me by somebody who ususally
    > >>
    > >>
    > >knows
    > >
    > >
    > >>about these things in a professional capacity:
    > >>
    > >>"Epsons are built to stop functioning when the internal counter reaches
    a
    > >>certain number, and you do need to be aware of this. Many people
    > >>
    > >>
    > >aren't.!!"
    > >
    > >
    > >>I find this very hard to believe - is it true? I have owned Epsons for
    > >>
    > >>
    > >many
    > >
    > >
    > >>years and never had much trouble with them - but I have never kept one
    > >>single printer for very long because I keep upgrading, so I might not
    have
    > >>reached the "fatal" number of prints on one machine.
    > >>
    > >>Cheers
    > >>
    > >>
    > >>
    > >>
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
  12. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    Yes, it is true. The number is called the protection number, and the
    reason for it is that it is supposed to indicate that the waste ink pads
    are full. I think this should be clearly stated in the manual or even
    in a more obvious place. Most to the point, the printer should warn you
    prior to this occurring and the actual reset and replacement of the ink
    pads should be a user serviceable part.

    Art

    Mike wrote:

    > Hi - I just had this statement emailed to me by somebody who ususally knows
    > about these things in a professional capacity:
    >
    > "Epsons are built to stop functioning when the internal counter reaches a
    > certain number, and you do need to be aware of this. Many people aren't.!!"
    >
    > I find this very hard to believe - is it true? I have owned Epsons for many
    > years and never had much trouble with them - but I have never kept one
    > single printer for very long because I keep upgrading, so I might not have
    > reached the "fatal" number of prints on one machine.
    >
    > Cheers
    >
    >
  13. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    Unfortunately, newer Epson printers no longer can be set by front panel
    button presses, and require proprietary programs from Epson or elsewhere
    to accomplish.

    Art

    Ivor Floppy wrote:


    >
    >
    > Nothing unusual - they have a waste ink pad inside to catch the ink used
    > during cleaning cycles and when purging the printhead either when starting a
    > print job or when the ink carts have been changed.. when that waste ink pad
    > is full the printer stops working the pad is changed and the counter reset.
    > If that didn't happen you end up with ink spilling out all over your desk.
    >
    > In the case of Epson printers its generally easy to reset the counter, but
    > getting to the waste ink pads to replace or clean them can be a tricky
    > process depending on the model.. and as far as I know Canon printers can't
    > be reset and have to be sent in for repair or simply thrown away.
    >
    >
    >
  14. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    No, this refers to the waste ink protection numbers. It does count
    droplets or volume of ink estimated to be sent to the waste ink pads,
    and when the number is reached, the printer becomes unable to
    communicate with the computer anymore and the LEDS all flash.

    Older Epson printers had a series of front panel button presses to reset
    the EEPROM for this, the new ones need a service call. The pads
    eventually do need replacement, and it is a messy and major dismantling
    to have it done.

    With moderate use, this number is not reached for several years.

    Art

    Ron Cohen wrote:

    > I don't think this means the printer has self destruct logic. I suspect what
    > he meant is that there is a counter for the ink cartridges which estimates
    > the number of droplets so as to prevent head damage from out of ink
    > conditions. Installation of fresh cartridges resets the counter.
    > Ron
    >
    > "Mike" <noot1967@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
    > news:d6fqo2$2c6$1@nntp0.reith.bbc.co.uk...
    >
    >>Hi - I just had this statement emailed to me by somebody who ususally
    >>knows about these things in a professional capacity:
    >>
    >>"Epsons are built to stop functioning when the internal counter reaches a
    >>certain number, and you do need to be aware of this. Many people
    >>aren't.!!"
    >>
    >>I find this very hard to believe - is it true? I have owned Epsons for
    >>many years and never had much trouble with them - but I have never kept
    >>one single printer for very long because I keep upgrading, so I might not
    >>have reached the "fatal" number of prints on one machine.
    >>
    >>Cheers
    >>
    >
    >
    >
  15. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    The pump system on many an Epson printer consist of a plastic tube the
    far end connects to the waste pad. the pump end is situated, for
    obvious reasons in the 'head park tray' just prior to where this is
    connected it goes through a 'U' turn moulding, imagine a wheel with a
    llittle bump or hammer on it rotating from a coupling from the paper
    feed gears, as the wheel rotates the bump or hammer pushes against
    the tube in a rotational manner, since the tube is being 'squashed'
    in a 'U' formation causes the ink to be drawn through the tube by
    suction.

    With the Picture Mate, the waste could well be collected by the ink
    cartridge as waste in a seperate chamber and then 'thrown out' with
    the empty tank, why not with all printers?

    Incidentally in a C80 this plastic tube is a common cause for bad
    printing and clogged heads it has a habit of coming away from the
    end of the head tray, causing ink to build and dry in the 'head
    park'.

    Davy
  16. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    The 7600 is a 24" wide machine designed for poster sized prints and is
    built for industrial use, using 110 and 220 ml ink cartridges, and
    costing well over $1000.

    These units (7600, 9600, 10000 series) do have a user serviceable waste
    ink "box" but even that is chipped to require people to stick with an
    Epson product. and to not reuse the old one.

    This is one of my pet peeves with Epson printers.

    As I have often said, I like certain things about Epsons and I hate
    certain things about Epsons.

    Art

    measekite wrote:

    >
    >
    > Shooter wrote:
    >
    >> I would say the person you say knows in fact has very little knowledge of
    >> how Epson's work otherwise they would know about waste pads and why an
    >> Epson
    >> has to be reset. Some people seem to think printers should run for
    >> ever and
    >> ever without service. You say you have never kept a printer that long
    >> because you upgraded, well that may also be true about Epson owners,
    >> having
    >> said that there are of course users who require a high output from their
    >> printers and it is this group that have to have machines reset even if
    >> they
    >> replace the pads themselves, I would think that many other makes would
    >> have
    >> given up completely well before an Epson requires a reset.
    >>
    >>
    >
    > These heavy users are probably using the wrong machine. I believe that
    > the new 2200 (I think or maybe the 7600) has a door in the side to pull
    > out and replace the pads as a consumable item like the ink is.
    >
    >>
    >> "Mike" <noot1967@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
    >> news:d6fqo2$2c6$1@nntp0.reith.bbc.co.uk...
    >>
    >>
    >>> Hi - I just had this statement emailed to me by somebody who ususally
    >>>
    >>
    >> knows
    >>
    >>
    >>> about these things in a professional capacity:
    >>>
    >>> "Epsons are built to stop functioning when the internal counter
    >>> reaches a
    >>> certain number, and you do need to be aware of this. Many people
    >>>
    >>
    >> aren't.!!"
    >>
    >>
    >>> I find this very hard to believe - is it true? I have owned Epsons for
    >>>
    >>
    >> many
    >>
    >>
    >>> years and never had much trouble with them - but I have never kept one
    >>> single printer for very long because I keep upgrading, so I might not
    >>> have
    >>> reached the "fatal" number of prints on one machine.
    >>>
    >>> Cheers
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>
  17. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    Arthur Entlich wrote:

    > The 7600 is a 24" wide machine designed for poster sized prints and is
    > built for industrial use, using 110 and 220 ml ink cartridges, and
    > costing well over $1000.
    >
    > These units (7600, 9600, 10000 series) do have a user serviceable
    > waste ink "box" but even that is chipped to require people to stick
    > with an Epson product. and to not reuse the old one.
    >
    > This is one of my pet peeves with Epson printers.
    >
    > As I have often said, I like certain things about Epsons and I hate
    > certain things about Epsons.


    It seems that the things that are not in your favor have more to do with
    the Corporation than with the product.

    >
    > Art
    >
    > measekite wrote:
    >
    >>
    >>
    >> Shooter wrote:
    >>
    >>> I would say the person you say knows in fact has very little
    >>> knowledge of
    >>> how Epson's work otherwise they would know about waste pads and why
    >>> an Epson
    >>> has to be reset. Some people seem to think printers should run for
    >>> ever and
    >>> ever without service. You say you have never kept a printer that long
    >>> because you upgraded, well that may also be true about Epson owners,
    >>> having
    >>> said that there are of course users who require a high output from
    >>> their
    >>> printers and it is this group that have to have machines reset even
    >>> if they
    >>> replace the pads themselves, I would think that many other makes
    >>> would have
    >>> given up completely well before an Epson requires a reset.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>
    >> These heavy users are probably using the wrong machine. I believe
    >> that the new 2200 (I think or maybe the 7600) has a door in the side
    >> to pull out and replace the pads as a consumable item like the ink is.
    >>
    >>>
    >>> "Mike" <noot1967@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
    >>> news:d6fqo2$2c6$1@nntp0.reith.bbc.co.uk...
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>> Hi - I just had this statement emailed to me by somebody who ususally
    >>>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> knows
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>> about these things in a professional capacity:
    >>>>
    >>>> "Epsons are built to stop functioning when the internal counter
    >>>> reaches a
    >>>> certain number, and you do need to be aware of this. Many people
    >>>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> aren't.!!"
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>> I find this very hard to believe - is it true? I have owned Epsons for
    >>>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> many
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>> years and never had much trouble with them - but I have never kept one
    >>>> single printer for very long because I keep upgrading, so I might
    >>>> not have
    >>>> reached the "fatal" number of prints on one machine.
    >>>>
    >>>> Cheers
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
  18. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    I believe the one exception in the Epson line up of consumer printers is
    the newer PictureMate model for 4x6" prints. It actually has the waste
    ink area in the cartridge, so the ink is pumped out of the head nozzles
    during cleaning cycles and then somehow pumped back into special
    chambers in the ink cartridge, so when the cartridge runs out of ink,
    the waste ink goes with it.

    Art


    Tony wrote:

    > All inkjets produce waste ink (in the same way laser printers produce waste
    > toner). This ink has to be stored somewhere other than in the printer mechanism
    > or on the paper. Different manufacturers handle this in different ways. Canon
    > and Epson use a similar system of storing the waste ink in a felt like pad,
    > often covering large areas of the printer base. The built in electronics
    > estimate when the pad is nearing saturation and this results in the deliberate
    > error message. Unfortunately Epson has in the past made this message somewhat
    > obscure. The replacement of the waste ink pad is a job for someone who is
    > technically experienced (especially in less recent models) and therefore they
    > do not readily make the reset code available, lest someone simply resets the
    > printer and does not replace the pad potentially resulting in ink all over the
    > place! The codes are however available from various sources on the internet;
    > use with care, most Epson printers will survive one reset without replacing the
    > pads but don't blame me if your printer floods your desk! Most HP inkjets have
    > cartridges with built in heads, these also produce waste which is stored in a
    > service station of various types, there is no count done by most HP's inkjets
    > so when the service station fills up the printhead carriage starts to
    > "bulldoze" the waste ink, spreading it in a fine spray over parts of the
    > printer, in severe cases ink actually starts to ooze from the printer base! HP
    > provides instructions on their website for emptying many of their printer
    > service stations. I suggest that anybody who has an older HP inkjet printer
    > checks out the website especially if the printer covers start to subtly change
    > colour around the head parking area (quite a subtle and slow change). It is a
    > big job to clean out any inkjet that has become badly contaminated with ink,
    > prevention is cheaper than cure!
    > Tony
    >
    > "Mike" <noot1967@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
    >
    >>Hi - I just had this statement emailed to me by somebody who ususally knows
    >>about these things in a professional capacity:
    >>
    >>"Epsons are built to stop functioning when the internal counter reaches a
    >>certain number, and you do need to be aware of this. Many people aren't.!!"
    >>
    >>I find this very hard to believe - is it true? I have owned Epsons for many
    >>years and never had much trouble with them - but I have never kept one
    >>single printer for very long because I keep upgrading, so I might not have
    >>reached the "fatal" number of prints on one machine.
    >>
    >>Cheers
    >>
    >>
    >
    >
  19. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    Thanks Art
    I wasn't aware of that; a clever solution..
    Tony

    Arthur Entlich <e-printerhelp@mvps.org> wrote:
    >I believe the one exception in the Epson line up of consumer printers is
    >the newer PictureMate model for 4x6" prints. It actually has the waste
    >ink area in the cartridge, so the ink is pumped out of the head nozzles
    >during cleaning cycles and then somehow pumped back into special
    >chambers in the ink cartridge, so when the cartridge runs out of ink,
    >the waste ink goes with it.
    >
    >Art
    >
    >
    >Tony wrote:
    >
    >> All inkjets produce waste ink (in the same way laser printers produce waste
    >> toner). This ink has to be stored somewhere other than in the printer
    >>mechanism
    >> or on the paper. Different manufacturers handle this in different ways.
    >>Canon
    >> and Epson use a similar system of storing the waste ink in a felt like pad,
    >> often covering large areas of the printer base. The built in electronics
    >> estimate when the pad is nearing saturation and this results in the
    >>deliberate
    >> error message. Unfortunately Epson has in the past made this message
    >>somewhat
    >> obscure. The replacement of the waste ink pad is a job for someone who is
    >> technically experienced (especially in less recent models) and therefore
    >>they
    >> do not readily make the reset code available, lest someone simply resets the
    >> printer and does not replace the pad potentially resulting in ink all over
    >>the
    >> place! The codes are however available from various sources on the internet;
    >> use with care, most Epson printers will survive one reset without replacing
    >>the
    >> pads but don't blame me if your printer floods your desk! Most HP inkjets
    >>have
    >> cartridges with built in heads, these also produce waste which is stored in
    >>a
    >> service station of various types, there is no count done by most HP's
    >>inkjets
    >> so when the service station fills up the printhead carriage starts to
    >> "bulldoze" the waste ink, spreading it in a fine spray over parts of the
    >> printer, in severe cases ink actually starts to ooze from the printer base!
    >>HP
    >> provides instructions on their website for emptying many of their printer
    >> service stations. I suggest that anybody who has an older HP inkjet printer
    >> checks out the website especially if the printer covers start to subtly
    >>change
    >> colour around the head parking area (quite a subtle and slow change). It is
    >>a
    >> big job to clean out any inkjet that has become badly contaminated with ink,
    >> prevention is cheaper than cure!
    >> Tony
    >>
    >> "Mike" <noot1967@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
    >>
    >>>Hi - I just had this statement emailed to me by somebody who ususally knows
    >>>about these things in a professional capacity:
    >>>
    >>>"Epsons are built to stop functioning when the internal counter reaches a
    >>>certain number, and you do need to be aware of this. Many people aren't.!!"
    >>>
    >>>I find this very hard to believe - is it true? I have owned Epsons for many
    >>>years and never had much trouble with them - but I have never kept one
    >>>single printer for very long because I keep upgrading, so I might not have
    >>>reached the "fatal" number of prints on one machine.
    >>>
    >>>Cheers
    >>>
    >>>
    >>
    >>
  20. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    On Wed, 18 May 2005 17:33:05 +0100, "Mike" <noot1967@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

    >Hi - I just had this statement emailed to me by somebody who ususally knows
    >about these things in a professional capacity:
    >
    >"Epsons are built to stop functioning when the internal counter reaches a
    >certain number, and you do need to be aware of this. Many people aren't.!!"


    Yes when the Soak Pad is Full, but that can be Reset, its very normal, you are
    suposted to replace thwe Soak Pads and reset the Printer, not a user thing.


    >I find this very hard to believe - is it true? I have owned Epsons for many
    >years and never had much trouble with them - but I have never kept one
    >single printer for very long because I keep upgrading, so I might not have
    >reached the "fatal" number of prints on one machine.
    >
    >Cheers
    >
  21. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    If the waste pad is full and requires replacing and the machine resetting
    the figure is measured in points. One can reset on say an Epson 2200 if the
    points are 40.000 or less if like my machine the points are 50.000 plus then
    you have to replace the pads before resetting, if the points reach 60.000
    then it's time to replace anyway. I have had my 2100 some three years and in
    another 7000 points they will have to be changed, or I can fit a waste
    bottle and reset. the above figures are generated in Epson printer
    adjustment program. It is not that hard to fit new pads but it's far better
    in my opinion to fit a waste bottle and a must if you consider using a CIS.

    "CSE" <cse@noware.comn> wrote in message
    news:ndjo81ttg4dbp0d141qff549ctpqjfv21v@4ax.com...
    > On Wed, 18 May 2005 17:33:05 +0100, "Mike" <noot1967@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
    >
    > >Hi - I just had this statement emailed to me by somebody who ususally
    knows
    > >about these things in a professional capacity:
    > >
    > >"Epsons are built to stop functioning when the internal counter reaches a
    > >certain number, and you do need to be aware of this. Many people
    aren't.!!"
    >
    >
    >
    > Yes when the Soak Pad is Full, but that can be Reset, its very normal, you
    are
    > suposted to replace thwe Soak Pads and reset the Printer, not a user
    thing.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > >I find this very hard to believe - is it true? I have owned Epsons for
    many
    > >years and never had much trouble with them - but I have never kept one
    > >single printer for very long because I keep upgrading, so I might not
    have
    > >reached the "fatal" number of prints on one machine.
    > >
    > >Cheers
    > >
    >
  22. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    In article <d6j2fq$oh3$1@nwrdmz02.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com>,
    photoman52003-shoot@yahoo.co.uk (Shooter) wrote:

    > ...the above figures are generated in Epson printer adjustment program.

    Is this a generally available piece of software? If so, where can it be
    found, please?

    Jon.
  23. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    Tony schrieb:

    > All inkjets produce waste ink (in the same way laser printers produce waste
    > toner). This ink has to be stored somewhere other than in the printer mechanism
    > or on the paper. Different manufacturers handle this in different ways. Canon
    > and Epson use a similar system of storing the waste ink in a felt like pad,
    > often covering large areas of the printer base. The built in electronics
    > estimate when the pad is nearing saturation and this results in the deliberate
    > error message. Unfortunately Epson has in the past made this message somewhat
    > obscure. The replacement of the waste ink pad is a job for someone who is
    > technically experienced (especially in less recent models) and therefore they
    > do not readily make the reset code available, lest someone simply resets the
    > printer and does not replace the pad potentially resulting in ink all over the
    > place! The codes are however available from various sources on the internet;
    > use with care, most Epson printers will survive one reset without replacing the
    > pads but don't blame me if your printer floods your desk! Most HP inkjets have
    > cartridges with built in heads, these also produce waste which is stored in a
    > service station of various types, there is no count done by most HP's inkjets
    > so when the service station fills up the printhead carriage starts to
    > "bulldoze" the waste ink, spreading it in a fine spray over parts of the
    > printer, in severe cases ink actually starts to ooze from the printer base! HP
    > provides instructions on their website for emptying many of their printer
    > service stations. I suggest that anybody who has an older HP inkjet printer
    > checks out the website especially if the printer covers start to subtly change
    > colour around the head parking area (quite a subtle and slow change). It is a
    > big job to clean out any inkjet that has become badly contaminated with ink,
    > prevention is cheaper than cure!
    > Tony
    >
    > "Mike" <noot1967@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
    > >Hi - I just had this statement emailed to me by somebody who ususally knows
    > >about these things in a professional capacity:
    > >
    > >"Epsons are built to stop functioning when the internal counter reaches a
    > >certain number, and you do need to be aware of this. Many people aren't.!!"
    > >
    > >I find this very hard to believe - is it true? I have owned Epsons for many
    > >years and never had much trouble with them - but I have never kept one
    > >single printer for very long because I keep upgrading, so I might not have
    > >reached the "fatal" number of prints on one machine.
    > >
    > >Cheers
    > >

    Don´t worry ! There won´t be "ink all over ther place", because printer inks are more or
    less pure water with very small amounts of water-soluble dyes and other additives. So
    what happens to the ink absorbed by the felt is that the water will evaporate within
    hours leaving the felt as dry behind as before. Don´t care for the dye residues !!
    Herb Henkler
  24. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    Tony schrieb:

    > All inkjets produce waste ink (in the same way laser printers produce waste
    > toner). This ink has to be stored somewhere other than in the printer mechanism
    > or on the paper. Different manufacturers handle this in different ways. Canon
    > and Epson use a similar system of storing the waste ink in a felt like pad,
    > often covering large areas of the printer base. The built in electronics
    > estimate when the pad is nearing saturation and this results in the deliberate
    > error message. Unfortunately Epson has in the past made this message somewhat
    > obscure. The replacement of the waste ink pad is a job for someone who is
    > technically experienced (especially in less recent models) and therefore they
    > do not readily make the reset code available, lest someone simply resets the
    > printer and does not replace the pad potentially resulting in ink all over the
    > place! The codes are however available from various sources on the internet;
    > use with care, most Epson printers will survive one reset without replacing the
    > pads but don't blame me if your printer floods your desk! Most HP inkjets have
    > cartridges with built in heads, these also produce waste which is stored in a
    > service station of various types, there is no count done by most HP's inkjets
    > so when the service station fills up the printhead carriage starts to
    > "bulldoze" the waste ink, spreading it in a fine spray over parts of the
    > printer, in severe cases ink actually starts to ooze from the printer base! HP
    > provides instructions on their website for emptying many of their printer
    > service stations. I suggest that anybody who has an older HP inkjet printer
    > checks out the website especially if the printer covers start to subtly change
    > colour around the head parking area (quite a subtle and slow change). It is a
    > big job to clean out any inkjet that has become badly contaminated with ink,
    > prevention is cheaper than cure!
    > Tony
    >
    > "Mike" <noot1967@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
    > >Hi - I just had this statement emailed to me by somebody who ususally knows
    > >about these things in a professional capacity:
    > >
    > >"Epsons are built to stop functioning when the internal counter reaches a
    > >certain number, and you do need to be aware of this. Many people aren't.!!"
    > >
    > >I find this very hard to believe - is it true? I have owned Epsons for many
    > >years and never had much trouble with them - but I have never kept one
    > >single printer for very long because I keep upgrading, so I might not have
    > >reached the "fatal" number of prints on one machine.
    > >
    > >Cheers
    > >

    Don´t worry ! There won´t be "ink all over ther place", because printer inks are more or
    less pure water with very small amounts of water-soluble dyes and other additives. So
    what happens to the ink absorbed by the felt is that the water will evaporate within
    hours leaving the felt as dry behind as before. Don´t care for the dye residues !!
    Herb Henkler
  25. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    Hi Jon,

    I got mine with the manual at www.inkjetprinterhelp.us
    Hope that helps.


    "Jon O'Brien" <Jon@NOonlySPAMbrowsingTHANX.com> wrote in message
    news:memo.20050520024715.2504A@blue.compulink.co.uk...
    > In article <d6j2fq$oh3$1@nwrdmz02.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com>,
    > photoman52003-shoot@yahoo.co.uk (Shooter) wrote:
    >
    > > ...the above figures are generated in Epson printer adjustment program.
    >
    > Is this a generally available piece of software? If so, where can it be
    > found, please?
    >
    > Jon.
  26. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    Herb
    The reality is that inkjet printers that are allowed to accumulate ink in the
    waste ink collectors will eventually overflow.
    This will in turn result in a big mess.
    I have seen this many times.
    The manufacturers of the printers put the protection counters in place for good
    reason.
    If you don't believe this then I suggest that you do not worry about your
    printer; everything will be fine..........until you have to clean up the mess.
    Your call!
    Tony

    "H.Henkler" <1122-217@online.de> wrote:
    >
    >
    >Tony schrieb:
    >
    >> All inkjets produce waste ink (in the same way laser printers produce waste
    >> toner). This ink has to be stored somewhere other than in the printer
    >>mechanism
    >> or on the paper. Different manufacturers handle this in different ways. Canon
    >> and Epson use a similar system of storing the waste ink in a felt like pad,
    >> often covering large areas of the printer base. The built in electronics
    >> estimate when the pad is nearing saturation and this results in the
    >>deliberate
    >> error message. Unfortunately Epson has in the past made this message somewhat
    >> obscure. The replacement of the waste ink pad is a job for someone who is
    >> technically experienced (especially in less recent models) and therefore they
    >> do not readily make the reset code available, lest someone simply resets the
    >> printer and does not replace the pad potentially resulting in ink all over
    >>the
    >> place! The codes are however available from various sources on the internet;
    >> use with care, most Epson printers will survive one reset without replacing
    >>the
    >> pads but don't blame me if your printer floods your desk! Most HP inkjets
    >>have
    >> cartridges with built in heads, these also produce waste which is stored in a
    >> service station of various types, there is no count done by most HP's inkjets
    >> so when the service station fills up the printhead carriage starts to
    >> "bulldoze" the waste ink, spreading it in a fine spray over parts of the
    >> printer, in severe cases ink actually starts to ooze from the printer base!
    >>HP
    >> provides instructions on their website for emptying many of their printer
    >> service stations. I suggest that anybody who has an older HP inkjet printer
    >> checks out the website especially if the printer covers start to subtly
    >>change
    >> colour around the head parking area (quite a subtle and slow change). It is a
    >> big job to clean out any inkjet that has become badly contaminated with ink,
    >> prevention is cheaper than cure!
    >> Tony
    >>
    >> "Mike" <noot1967@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
    >> >Hi - I just had this statement emailed to me by somebody who ususally knows
    >> >about these things in a professional capacity:
    >> >
    >> >"Epsons are built to stop functioning when the internal counter reaches a
    >> >certain number, and you do need to be aware of this. Many people aren't.!!"
    >> >
    >> >I find this very hard to believe - is it true? I have owned Epsons for many
    >> >years and never had much trouble with them - but I have never kept one
    >> >single printer for very long because I keep upgrading, so I might not have
    >> >reached the "fatal" number of prints on one machine.
    >> >
    >> >Cheers
    >> >
    >
    >Don´t worry ! There won´t be "ink all over ther place", because printer inks
    >are more or
    >less pure water with very small amounts of water-soluble dyes and other
    >additives. So
    >what happens to the ink absorbed by the felt is that the water will evaporate
    >within
    >hours leaving the felt as dry behind as before. Don´t care for the dye
    >residues !!
    >Herb Henkler
    >
    >
  27. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    In article <d6kgnk$shi$1@nwrdmz01.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com>,
    photoman52003-shoot@yahoo.co.uk (Shooter) wrote:

    > I got mine with the manual at www.inkjetprinterhelp.us
    > Hope that helps.

    I'm sure it will when I manage to get the site to respond! At the moment,
    all I'm getting is a timeout.

    BTW, according to Google, there's no 'www' in the address.

    Many thanks,
    Jon.
  28. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    A little strange as I have just clicked on the address I gave you below and
    it came straight up.


    "Jon O'Brien" <Jon@NOonlySPAMbrowsingTHANX.com> wrote in message
    news:memo.20050520132535.500B@blue.compulink.co.uk...
    > In article <d6kgnk$shi$1@nwrdmz01.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com>,
    > photoman52003-shoot@yahoo.co.uk (Shooter) wrote:
    >
    > > I got mine with the manual at www.inkjetprinterhelp.us
    > > Hope that helps.
    >
    > I'm sure it will when I manage to get the site to respond! At the moment,
    > all I'm getting is a timeout.
    >
    > BTW, according to Google, there's no 'www' in the address.
    >
    > Many thanks,
    > Jon.
  29. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    In article <d6knud$h9v$1@nwrdmz03.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com>,
    photoman52003-shoot@yahoo.co.uk (Shooter) wrote:

    > A little strange as I have just clicked on the address I gave you below
    > and it came straight up.

    It came up for me too about half an hour later but then the 'Add to Cart'
    link gave me a 404. I'll get there eventually!

    Jon.
  30. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    Hi Jon,

    I have just tried Add To Cart and again no problem. Try
    http://inkjetprinterhelp.us/servicemanuals.html


    "Jon O'Brien" <Jon@NOonlySPAMbrowsingTHANX.com> wrote in message
    news:memo.20050520190932.500A@blue.compulink.co.uk...
    > In article <d6knud$h9v$1@nwrdmz03.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com>,
    > photoman52003-shoot@yahoo.co.uk (Shooter) wrote:
    >
    > > A little strange as I have just clicked on the address I gave you below
    > > and it came straight up.
    >
    > It came up for me too about half an hour later but then the 'Add to Cart'
    > link gave me a 404. I'll get there eventually!
    >
    > Jon.
  31. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    On Fri, 20 May 2005 11:12:52 +0000 (UTC), "Shooter"
    <photoman52003-shoot@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

    >Hi Jon,
    >
    >I got mine with the manual at www.inkjetprinterhelp.us
    >Hope that helps.
    >
    Shame it's in the US and uses Paypal :(

    --

    Hecate - The Real One
    Hecate@newsguy.com
    Fashion: Buying things you don't need, with money
    you don't have, to impress people you don't like...
  32. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    In article <d6lm5u$1kk$1@nwrdmz02.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com>,
    photoman52003-shoot@yahoo.co.uk (Shooter) wrote:

    > I have just tried Add To Cart and again no problem.

    Got that working this time but when I tried to check out I got the
    following from the Paypal site:

    "The recipient of this shopping cart link is not an approved shopping cart
    user. Please review your selection and try again."

    Something weird's going on.

    Jon.
  33. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    Jon,

    I had no problem with Paypal either as this seems to be the only payment
    method they take which is fine for me as I am in the UK.. I can only suggest
    you email them at admin@inkjetprinterhelp.us and ask what is happening. I
    had no problem whatever in paying with Paypal and the delivery by post from
    the US to UK infact the charge was $10 and with the exchange rate it cost me
    £5.76, needles to say I was delighted.

    However if it is just the adjustment program you require I could Zip it and
    email to you providing my ISP will allow 4.2mb zipped as email. Please email
    me if you want me to try and send it.


    "Jon O'Brien" <Jon@NOonlySPAMbrowsingTHANX.com> wrote in message
    news:memo.20050521004640.2008B@blue.compulink.co.uk...
    > In article <d6lm5u$1kk$1@nwrdmz02.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com>,
    > photoman52003-shoot@yahoo.co.uk (Shooter) wrote:
    >
    > > I have just tried Add To Cart and again no problem.
    >
    > Got that working this time but when I tried to check out I got the
    > following from the Paypal site:
    >
    > "The recipient of this shopping cart link is not an approved shopping cart
    > user. Please review your selection and try again."
    >
    > Something weird's going on.
    >
    > Jon.
  34. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    The little suction pump reminds me of a miniature milking machine.

    I wish the problem with the tube coming off was just the C80. I have
    helped people with this problem with C82, C84, CX 5200, CX 4600 all in
    one. AND, worse yet, the dang tube tends to fall off during cartridge
    replacement, so all the sudden the printer stops working after a
    cartridge has been replaced.

    Worse still, Epson is very tight-lipped about it, and if it occurs out
    of warranty, they have nothing to say at all.

    I find that approach unreasonable. This is a manufacturing or design
    defect, and Epson ought to take responsibility for it.

    Art

    Davy wrote:

    > The pump system on many an Epson printer consist of a plastic tube the
    > far end connects to the waste pad. the pump end is situated, for
    > obvious reasons in the 'head park tray' just prior to where this is
    > connected it goes through a 'U' turn moulding, imagine a wheel with a
    > llittle bump or hammer on it rotating from a coupling from the paper
    > feed gears, as the wheel rotates the bump or hammer pushes against
    > the tube in a rotational manner, since the tube is being 'squashed'
    > in a 'U' formation causes the ink to be drawn through the tube by
    > suction.
    >
    > With the Picture Mate, the waste could well be collected by the ink
    > cartridge as waste in a seperate chamber and then 'thrown out' with
    > the empty tank, why not with all printers?
    >
    > Incidentally in a C80 this plastic tube is a common cause for bad
    > printing and clogged heads it has a habit of coming away from the
    > end of the head tray, causing ink to build and dry in the 'head
    > park'.
    >
    > Davy
    >
  35. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    It is true that a lot of dye ink components are alcohols and water, and
    that over time they do evaporate, leading to a very conservative number
    used for waste inkpad replacement. Glycols are much slower to
    evaporate, and pigment inks have a lot of glycol and residue, so I would
    be more careful with pigment ink and waste pad replacement.

    Art

    H.Henkler wrote:

    >
    > Tony schrieb:
    >
    >
    >>All inkjets produce waste ink (in the same way laser printers produce waste
    >>toner). This ink has to be stored somewhere other than in the printer mechanism
    >>or on the paper. Different manufacturers handle this in different ways. Canon
    >>and Epson use a similar system of storing the waste ink in a felt like pad,
    >>often covering large areas of the printer base. The built in electronics
    >>estimate when the pad is nearing saturation and this results in the deliberate
    >>error message. Unfortunately Epson has in the past made this message somewhat
    >>obscure. The replacement of the waste ink pad is a job for someone who is
    >>technically experienced (especially in less recent models) and therefore they
    >>do not readily make the reset code available, lest someone simply resets the
    >>printer and does not replace the pad potentially resulting in ink all over the
    >>place! The codes are however available from various sources on the internet;
    >>use with care, most Epson printers will survive one reset without replacing the
    >>pads but don't blame me if your printer floods your desk! Most HP inkjets have
    >>cartridges with built in heads, these also produce waste which is stored in a
    >>service station of various types, there is no count done by most HP's inkjets
    >>so when the service station fills up the printhead carriage starts to
    >>"bulldoze" the waste ink, spreading it in a fine spray over parts of the
    >>printer, in severe cases ink actually starts to ooze from the printer base! HP
    >>provides instructions on their website for emptying many of their printer
    >>service stations. I suggest that anybody who has an older HP inkjet printer
    >>checks out the website especially if the printer covers start to subtly change
    >>colour around the head parking area (quite a subtle and slow change). It is a
    >>big job to clean out any inkjet that has become badly contaminated with ink,
    >>prevention is cheaper than cure!
    >>Tony
  36. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    Arthur Entlich wrote:

    > The little suction pump reminds me of a miniature milking machine.
    >
    > I wish the problem with the tube coming off was just the C80. I have
    > helped people with this problem with C82, C84, CX 5200, CX 4600 all in
    > one. AND, worse yet, the dang tube tends to fall off during cartridge
    > replacement, so all the sudden the printer stops working after a
    > cartridge has been replaced.
    >
    > Worse still, Epson is very tight-lipped about it, and if it occurs out
    > of warranty, they have nothing to say at all.
    >
    > I find that approach unreasonable. This is a manufacturing or design
    > defect, and Epson ought to take responsibility for it.
    >
    > Art


    It seems there are a lot of things that Epson does not take
    responsibility for.

    >
    > Davy wrote:
    >
    >> The pump system on many an Epson printer consist of a plastic tube the
    >> far end connects to the waste pad. the pump end is situated, for
    >> obvious reasons in the 'head park tray' just prior to where this is
    >> connected it goes through a 'U' turn moulding, imagine a wheel with a
    >> llittle bump or hammer on it rotating from a coupling from the paper
    >> feed gears, as the wheel rotates the bump or hammer pushes against
    >> the tube in a rotational manner, since the tube is being 'squashed'
    >> in a 'U' formation causes the ink to be drawn through the tube by
    >> suction.
    >>
    >> With the Picture Mate, the waste could well be collected by the ink
    >> cartridge as waste in a seperate chamber and then 'thrown out' with
    >> the empty tank, why not with all printers?
    >>
    >> Incidentally in a C80 this plastic tube is a common cause for bad
    >> printing and clogged heads it has a habit of coming away from the
    >> end of the head tray, causing ink to build and dry in the 'head
    >> park'.
    >>
    >> Davy
    >>
  37. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    I have an Epson C70+ colour inkjet printer.I have just spent £65 on 2
    cartridges , 1 black and 1 colour.While knowing that this is a chipped
    cartridge, I resent the fact that I have to spend this kind of money
    just to get refills for a printer.In future, when it comes times to
    replace, my printer, I will not be buying an Epson. They have just
    about the most expensive refill cartridges of any manufacturer that I
    have come across.When companies ( not just Epson, but others do come to
    mind as well ) make their hardware, they really should give a thought
    for the upkeep of their equipment for the low end private user.
    If someone could also provide me with drivers for above printer,
    running on an XP home Packard Bell Easynote C3300, I would also be most
    grateful.

    Mr. J. Lindsay Clanahan

    lindsay@clanahan.fslife.co.uk
  38. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    I don't disagree. I find this to be a pervasive problem in the computer
    hardware business. I have rarely found a company that doesn't shirk
    some of it's responsibilities. Canon, as an example seem less than
    forthright about the stability of their ink, and the reliability of
    their printer heads. They have developed a new head for their
    professional wide carriage printers and are supplying pigment colorant
    inks for them, with a gloss and matte ink, amazingly very similar
    sounding to Epson's ink system.

    I could enumerate personal stories with bad technology and poor company
    response from dozens of high tech companies, including Epson. I've
    never said otherwise. I just know a lot more about the issues with
    Epson products because I deal with people who encounter them. I don't
    think they have anything approaching a monopoly for problems, even in
    the printer industry, however, and they certainly do make some
    innovative designs along the way.

    Art

    measekite wrote:

    >
    >
    > Arthur Entlich wrote:
    >
    >> The little suction pump reminds me of a miniature milking machine.
    >>
    >> I wish the problem with the tube coming off was just the C80. I have
    >> helped people with this problem with C82, C84, CX 5200, CX 4600 all in
    >> one. AND, worse yet, the dang tube tends to fall off during cartridge
    >> replacement, so all the sudden the printer stops working after a
    >> cartridge has been replaced.
    >>
    >> Worse still, Epson is very tight-lipped about it, and if it occurs out
    >> of warranty, they have nothing to say at all.
    >>
    >> I find that approach unreasonable. This is a manufacturing or design
    >> defect, and Epson ought to take responsibility for it.
    >>
    >> Art
    >
    >
    >
    > It seems there are a lot of things that Epson does not take
    > responsibility for.
    >
    >>
    >> Davy wrote:
    >>
    >>> The pump system on many an Epson printer consist of a plastic tube the
    >>> far end connects to the waste pad. the pump end is situated, for
    >>> obvious reasons in the 'head park tray' just prior to where this is
    >>> connected it goes through a 'U' turn moulding, imagine a wheel with a
    >>> llittle bump or hammer on it rotating from a coupling from the paper
    >>> feed gears, as the wheel rotates the bump or hammer pushes against
    >>> the tube in a rotational manner, since the tube is being 'squashed'
    >>> in a 'U' formation causes the ink to be drawn through the tube by
    >>> suction.
    >>>
    >>> With the Picture Mate, the waste could well be collected by the ink
    >>> cartridge as waste in a seperate chamber and then 'thrown out' with
    >>> the empty tank, why not with all printers?
    >>>
    >>> Incidentally in a C80 this plastic tube is a common cause for bad
    >>> printing and clogged heads it has a habit of coming away from the
    >>> end of the head tray, causing ink to build and dry in the 'head
    >>> park'.
    >>>
    >>> Davy
    >>>
  39. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    Arthur Entlich wrote:

    > I don't disagree. I find this to be a pervasive problem in the
    > computer hardware business. I have rarely found a company that
    > doesn't shirk some of it's responsibilities. Canon, as an example
    > seem less than forthright about the stability of their ink, and the
    > reliability of their printer heads. They have developed a new head
    > for their professional wide carriage printers and are supplying
    > pigment colorant inks for them, with a gloss and matte ink, amazingly
    > very similar sounding to Epson's ink system.
    >
    > I could enumerate personal stories with bad technology and poor
    > company response from dozens of high tech companies, including Epson.


    You forgot about Microsoft. ;-)

    > I've never said otherwise. I just know a lot more about the issues
    > with Epson products because I deal with people who encounter them. I
    > don't think they have anything approaching a monopoly for problems,
    > even in the printer industry, however, and they certainly do make some
    > innovative designs along the way.
    >
    > Art


    While I use OEM ink (best for my purposes) Epson, more than the other
    companies, have thus far put out designs that appears to foil or make
    difficult using other ink.

    Notwithstanding my feeling about the 3rd party ink hawkers and the way
    they do business along with many poor quality inks that can damage
    printers, I would like to see a strong, honest, professional, and full
    disclosing aftermarket ink industry that will sell BRANDED ink in both
    bottles and prefilled carts through all of the marketing channels (Brick
    & Mortor like Costco and Office Depot as well online) . This will help
    to drive down the overpriced OEM ink alternatives.

    >
    > measekite wrote:
    >
    >>
    >>
    >> Arthur Entlich wrote:
    >>
    >>> The little suction pump reminds me of a miniature milking machine.
    >>>
    >>> I wish the problem with the tube coming off was just the C80. I
    >>> have helped people with this problem with C82, C84, CX 5200, CX 4600
    >>> all in one. AND, worse yet, the dang tube tends to fall off during
    >>> cartridge replacement, so all the sudden the printer stops working
    >>> after a cartridge has been replaced.
    >>>
    >>> Worse still, Epson is very tight-lipped about it, and if it occurs
    >>> out of warranty, they have nothing to say at all.
    >>>
    >>> I find that approach unreasonable. This is a manufacturing or
    >>> design defect, and Epson ought to take responsibility for it.
    >>>
    >>> Art
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> It seems there are a lot of things that Epson does not take
    >> responsibility for.
    >>
    >>>
    >>> Davy wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> The pump system on many an Epson printer consist of a plastic tube the
    >>>> far end connects to the waste pad. the pump end is situated, for
    >>>> obvious reasons in the 'head park tray' just prior to where this is
    >>>> connected it goes through a 'U' turn moulding, imagine a wheel with a
    >>>> llittle bump or hammer on it rotating from a coupling from the paper
    >>>> feed gears, as the wheel rotates the bump or hammer pushes against
    >>>> the tube in a rotational manner, since the tube is being 'squashed'
    >>>> in a 'U' formation causes the ink to be drawn through the tube by
    >>>> suction.
    >>>>
    >>>> With the Picture Mate, the waste could well be collected by the ink
    >>>> cartridge as waste in a seperate chamber and then 'thrown out' with
    >>>> the empty tank, why not with all printers?
    >>>>
    >>>> Incidentally in a C80 this plastic tube is a common cause for bad
    >>>> printing and clogged heads it has a habit of coming away from the
    >>>> end of the head tray, causing ink to build and dry in the 'head
    >>>> park'.
    >>>>
    >>>> Davy
    >>>>
  40. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    > Arthur Entlichwrote:

    >
    > the dang tube tends to fall off during cartridge
    > replacement, so all the sudden the printer stops working after a
    > cartridge has been replaced.
    >
    > Davy say's,
    > Bearing in mind the new cartridge will be full so when it goes
    through the head cleaning routine the pressure is gonna be at it's
    most max due to the weight of the ink and gravity just like systole
    pressure of the heart, sounds quite feesible.
    >
    > A cure is to use a plastic cable tie.
    >
    > Davy
  41. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    "measekite" <measekite@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    news:Uvnke.644$rY6.593@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...

    (snip)

    > Notwithstanding my feeling about the 3rd party ink hawkers and the way
    > they do business along with many poor quality inks that can damage
    > printers, I would like to see a strong, honest, professional, and full
    > disclosing aftermarket ink industry that will sell BRANDED ink in both
    > bottles and prefilled carts through all of the marketing channels (Brick &
    > Mortor like Costco and Office Depot as well online) . This will help to
    > drive down the overpriced OEM ink alternatives.

    The model that current internet vendors use for third party ink/cart sales
    is considerably less expensive than even the "big box" brick and mortar
    businesses such as Costco and Office Depot. Although you don't like theses
    e-vendors' business methods and disparage them constantly, they offer the
    consumer the best pricing on these products. Add more sophisticated
    packaging, more personel and management salaries, and another layer or more
    of profit taking in the chain of distribution, and the prices go up
    considerably for these products. In addition, I would bet that the OEM
    products would not drop in price with broader distribution of third party
    products. Market forces notwithstanding, the public is generally fearful of
    straying from the manufacturers' recommendations.

    >
    >>
    >> measekite wrote:
    >>
    >>>
    (snip)
  42. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    Burt wrote:

    >"measekite" <measekite@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    >news:Uvnke.644$rY6.593@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...
    >
    >(snip)
    >
    >
    >
    >>Notwithstanding my feeling about the 3rd party ink hawkers and the way
    >>they do business along with many poor quality inks that can damage
    >>printers, I would like to see a strong, honest, professional, and full
    >>disclosing aftermarket ink industry that will sell BRANDED ink in both
    >>bottles and prefilled carts through all of the marketing channels (Brick &
    >>Mortor like Costco and Office Depot as well online) . This will help to
    >>drive down the overpriced OEM ink alternatives.
    >>
    >>
    >
    >The model that current internet vendors use for third party ink/cart sales
    >is considerably less expensive than even the "big box" brick and mortar
    >businesses such as Costco and Office Depot. Although you don't like theses
    >e-vendors' business methods and disparage them constantly, they offer the
    >consumer the best pricing on these products. Add more sophisticated
    >packaging, more personel and management salaries, and another layer or more
    >of profit taking in the chain of distribution, and the prices go up
    >considerably for these products. In addition, I would bet that the OEM
    >products would not drop in price with broader distribution of third party
    >products. Market forces notwithstanding, the public is generally fearful of
    >straying from the manufacturers' recommendations.
    >
    >

    And with good reason. However, I said that the distribution by
    manufacturers should be between all of the channels. Let say that
    Sensinet packaged 2oz and 4 oz bottles as well as prefilled carts and
    sold them on their own webstore just like Canon and Epson as well as
    through brick and mortar stores under their own name. You could then
    choose to buy that BRAND anywhere and compare prices as well. Once
    Sensinet established BRAND recognition with the public Epson and Canon
    would have a viable competitor. Once sales are taken away from them
    they would have to rethink their pricing.

    Also, if it was proved that their ink was inferior and you were getting
    is from Costco, you would not turn to Office Depot and unknowingly buy
    the same thing.

    >
    >
    >>>measekite wrote:
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >(snip)
    >
    >
    >
    >
  43. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    For better or worse, Sensient doesn't appear to want to deal with small
    quantity sales. If you want to buy palattes of gallons or drums of their
    inks that is the market they have chosen to occupy. The smaller quantity
    repackagers have found the niche market that we occupy. This is true in
    many industries.

    "measekite" <measekite@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    news:g8oke.663$rY6.141@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...
    >
    >
    > Burt wrote:
    >
    >>"measekite" <measekite@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    >>news:Uvnke.644$rY6.593@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...
    >>
    >>(snip)
    >>
    >>
    >>>Notwithstanding my feeling about the 3rd party ink hawkers and the way
    >>>they do business along with many poor quality inks that can damage
    >>>printers, I would like to see a strong, honest, professional, and full
    >>>disclosing aftermarket ink industry that will sell BRANDED ink in both
    >>>bottles and prefilled carts through all of the marketing channels (Brick
    >>>& Mortor like Costco and Office Depot as well online) . This will help
    >>>to drive down the overpriced OEM ink alternatives.
    >>>
    >>
    >>The model that current internet vendors use for third party ink/cart sales
    >>is considerably less expensive than even the "big box" brick and mortar
    >>businesses such as Costco and Office Depot. Although you don't like
    >>theses e-vendors' business methods and disparage them constantly, they
    >>offer the consumer the best pricing on these products. Add more
    >>sophisticated packaging, more personel and management salaries, and
    >>another layer or more of profit taking in the chain of distribution, and
    >>the prices go up considerably for these products. In addition, I would
    >>bet that the OEM products would not drop in price with broader
    >>distribution of third party products. Market forces notwithstanding, the
    >>public is generally fearful of straying from the manufacturers'
    >>recommendations.
    >>
    >
    > And with good reason. However, I said that the distribution by
    > manufacturers should be between all of the channels. Let say that
    > Sensinet packaged 2oz and 4 oz bottles as well as prefilled carts and sold
    > them on their own webstore just like Canon and Epson as well as through
    > brick and mortar stores under their own name. You could then choose to
    > buy that BRAND anywhere and compare prices as well. Once Sensinet
    > established BRAND recognition with the public Epson and Canon would have a
    > viable competitor. Once sales are taken away from them they would have to
    > rethink their pricing.
    >
    > Also, if it was proved that their ink was inferior and you were getting is
    > from Costco, you would not turn to Office Depot and unknowingly buy the
    > same thing.
    >
    >>
    >>>>measekite wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>(snip)
    >>
    >>
  44. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    Burt wrote:

    >For better or worse, Sensient doesn't appear to want to deal with small
    >quantity sales.
    >

    That is worse.

    >If you want to buy palattes of gallons or drums of their
    >inks that is the market they have chosen to occupy. The smaller quantity
    >repackagers
    >
    Hawkers

    >have found the niche market that we occupy. This is true in
    >many industries.
    >
    >"measekite" <measekite@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    >news:g8oke.663$rY6.141@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...
    >
    >
    >>Burt wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>>"measekite" <measekite@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    >>>news:Uvnke.644$rY6.593@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...
    >>>
    >>>(snip)
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>>Notwithstanding my feeling about the 3rd party ink hawkers and the way
    >>>>they do business along with many poor quality inks that can damage
    >>>>printers, I would like to see a strong, honest, professional, and full
    >>>>disclosing aftermarket ink industry that will sell BRANDED ink in both
    >>>>bottles and prefilled carts through all of the marketing channels (Brick
    >>>>& Mortor like Costco and Office Depot as well online) . This will help
    >>>>to drive down the overpriced OEM ink alternatives.
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>The model that current internet vendors use for third party ink/cart sales
    >>>is considerably less expensive than even the "big box" brick and mortar
    >>>businesses such as Costco and Office Depot. Although you don't like
    >>>theses e-vendors' business methods and disparage them constantly, they
    >>>offer the consumer the best pricing on these products. Add more
    >>>sophisticated packaging, more personel and management salaries, and
    >>>another layer or more of profit taking in the chain of distribution, and
    >>>the prices go up considerably for these products. In addition, I would
    >>>bet that the OEM products would not drop in price with broader
    >>>distribution of third party products. Market forces notwithstanding, the
    >>>public is generally fearful of straying from the manufacturers'
    >>>recommendations.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>And with good reason. However, I said that the distribution by
    >>manufacturers should be between all of the channels. Let say that
    >>Sensinet packaged 2oz and 4 oz bottles as well as prefilled carts and sold
    >>them on their own webstore just like Canon and Epson as well as through
    >>brick and mortar stores under their own name. You could then choose to
    >>buy that BRAND anywhere and compare prices as well. Once Sensinet
    >>established BRAND recognition with the public Epson and Canon would have a
    >>viable competitor. Once sales are taken away from them they would have to
    >>rethink their pricing.
    >>
    >>Also, if it was proved that their ink was inferior and you were getting is
    >>from Costco, you would not turn to Office Depot and unknowingly buy the
    >>same thing.
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>>>>measekite wrote:
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>(snip)
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >
    >
    >
    >
  45. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    How about having a thread naming good and bad ink suppliers, by now we
    should be able to create a ' clogging table'.

    Davy
  46. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    Oooops sorry - Davy
  47. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    I neither forgot nor did I include Microsoft.

    In order to get a strong and honest aftermarket for ink suppliers, there
    are several matters to overcome which make much of it impossible.

    The manufacturers need to spell out what their specs and requirements
    are, and a 3rd party foundation which is sponsored by 3rd party ink
    suppliers, but independent of them, needs to test and scrutinize the
    inks made.

    Won't happen because manufacturers have no interest in revealing the
    specs and requirements of the printers they make when their profit
    engine IS their inks.

    Won't happen because 3rd party ink manufacturers distribute their inks
    to many, many distribution channels and might even make the ink for the
    OEM, and contracts and NDAs do not allow them to reveal this. Ink
    formulation is only part of the issue. Cartridges and or heads have to
    be designed to spec also. And finally, longevity of the ink is a very
    costly process to allow for good advanced aging estimate.

    Of the majors, Lexmark, Dell, HP and Epson have all developed methods to
    confound refilling.

    Art

    measekite wrote:

    >
    >
    > Arthur Entlich wrote:
    >
    >> I don't disagree. I find this to be a pervasive problem in the
    >> computer hardware business. I have rarely found a company that
    >> doesn't shirk some of it's responsibilities. Canon, as an example
    >> seem less than forthright about the stability of their ink, and the
    >> reliability of their printer heads. They have developed a new head
    >> for their professional wide carriage printers and are supplying
    >> pigment colorant inks for them, with a gloss and matte ink, amazingly
    >> very similar sounding to Epson's ink system.
    >>
    >> I could enumerate personal stories with bad technology and poor
    >> company response from dozens of high tech companies, including Epson.
    >
    >
    >
    > You forgot about Microsoft. ;-)
    >
    >> I've never said otherwise. I just know a lot more about the issues
    >> with Epson products because I deal with people who encounter them. I
    >> don't think they have anything approaching a monopoly for problems,
    >> even in the printer industry, however, and they certainly do make some
    >> innovative designs along the way.
    >>
    >> Art
    >
    >
    >
    > While I use OEM ink (best for my purposes) Epson, more than the other
    > companies, have thus far put out designs that appears to foil or make
    > difficult using other ink.
    > Notwithstanding my feeling about the 3rd party ink hawkers and the way
    > they do business along with many poor quality inks that can damage
    > printers, I would like to see a strong, honest, professional, and full
    > disclosing aftermarket ink industry that will sell BRANDED ink in both
    > bottles and prefilled carts through all of the marketing channels (Brick
    > & Mortor like Costco and Office Depot as well online) . This will help
    > to drive down the overpriced OEM ink alternatives.
    >
    >>
    >> measekite wrote:
    >>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> Arthur Entlich wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> The little suction pump reminds me of a miniature milking machine.
    >>>>
    >>>> I wish the problem with the tube coming off was just the C80. I
    >>>> have helped people with this problem with C82, C84, CX 5200, CX 4600
    >>>> all in one. AND, worse yet, the dang tube tends to fall off during
    >>>> cartridge replacement, so all the sudden the printer stops working
    >>>> after a cartridge has been replaced.
    >>>>
    >>>> Worse still, Epson is very tight-lipped about it, and if it occurs
    >>>> out of warranty, they have nothing to say at all.
    >>>>
    >>>> I find that approach unreasonable. This is a manufacturing or
    >>>> design defect, and Epson ought to take responsibility for it.
    >>>>
    >>>> Art
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> It seems there are a lot of things that Epson does not take
    >>> responsibility for.
    >>>
    >>>>
    >>>> Davy wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>> The pump system on many an Epson printer consist of a plastic tube the
    >>>>> far end connects to the waste pad. the pump end is situated, for
    >>>>> obvious reasons in the 'head park tray' just prior to where this is
    >>>>> connected it goes through a 'U' turn moulding, imagine a wheel with a
    >>>>> llittle bump or hammer on it rotating from a coupling from the paper
    >>>>> feed gears, as the wheel rotates the bump or hammer pushes against
    >>>>> the tube in a rotational manner, since the tube is being 'squashed'
    >>>>> in a 'U' formation causes the ink to be drawn through the tube by
    >>>>> suction.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> With the Picture Mate, the waste could well be collected by the ink
    >>>>> cartridge as waste in a seperate chamber and then 'thrown out' with
    >>>>> the empty tank, why not with all printers?
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Incidentally in a C80 this plastic tube is a common cause for bad
    >>>>> printing and clogged heads it has a habit of coming away from the
    >>>>> end of the head tray, causing ink to build and dry in the 'head
    >>>>> park'.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Davy
    >>>>>
  48. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    If you visit the Sensient web site, you will understand why they can't
    and won't sell ink under their own name retail. They formulate inks for
    printer manufacturers. They would lose that business if they began to
    sell ink under their own name, as well. The manufacturers relay upon
    rumor mongers and providers of incomplete or inaccurate information,
    like yourself, to scare off the average consumer from 3rd party inks.

    Can you imagine what would happen to ink sales, which all manufacturers
    reply upon for income, if suddenly it was revealed that Canlexson inks
    were made in the same factory and by the same company as Sensient
    inks... no one would buy Canlexson inks anymore.

    We are dealing with the real world here. Get this... Sensient does NOT
    want to sell their inks revealed under their name. For them it is
    better to make OEM inks and sell 3rd party inks anonymously. Get it?

    Smart people figure out what's what over time and buy from reputable
    labels even if no one can admit where the inks come from. The 3rd party
    dealers would probably LOVE to tell you if they were selling known brand
    inks. In most cases, they cannot do so because the ink supplier will
    not allow them to.

    Even if you don't have the business savvy to know this, can you at least
    try to think it through and comprehend the consequences?

    Art


    measekite wrote:

    >
    >
    > Burt wrote:
    >

    >>
    >> The model that current internet vendors use for third party ink/cart
    >> sales is considerably less expensive than even the "big box" brick and
    >> mortar businesses such as Costco and Office Depot. Although you don't
    >> like theses e-vendors' business methods and disparage them constantly,
    >> they offer the consumer the best pricing on these products. Add more
    >> sophisticated packaging, more personel and management salaries, and
    >> another layer or more of profit taking in the chain of distribution,
    >> and the prices go up considerably for these products. In addition, I
    >> would bet that the OEM products would not drop in price with broader
    >> distribution of third party products. Market forces notwithstanding,
    >> the public is generally fearful of straying from the manufacturers'
    >> recommendations.
    >>
    >>
    >
    > And with good reason. However, I said that the distribution by
    > manufacturers should be between all of the channels. Let say that
    > Sensinet packaged 2oz and 4 oz bottles as well as prefilled carts and
    > sold them on their own webstore just like Canon and Epson as well as
    > through brick and mortar stores under their own name. You could then
    > choose to buy that BRAND anywhere and compare prices as well. Once
    > Sensinet established BRAND recognition with the public Epson and Canon
    > would have a viable competitor. Once sales are taken away from them
    > they would have to rethink their pricing.
    >
    > Also, if it was proved that their ink was inferior and you were getting
    > is from Costco, you would not turn to Office Depot and unknowingly buy
    > the same thing.
    >
    >>
    >>
    >>>> measekite wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>
    >> (snip)
    >>
    >>
    >>
  49. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    Arthur Entlich wrote:

    > I neither forgot nor did I include Microsoft.
    >
    > In order to get a strong and honest aftermarket for ink suppliers,
    > there are several matters to overcome which make much of it impossible.
    >
    > The manufacturers need to spell out what their specs and requirements
    > are, and a 3rd party foundation which is sponsored by 3rd party ink
    > suppliers, but independent of them, needs to test and scrutinize the
    > inks made.

    Isn't that like the fox guarding the hen house?

    >
    > Won't happen because manufacturers have no interest in revealing the
    > specs and requirements of the printers they make when their profit
    > engine IS their inks.
    >
    > Won't happen because 3rd party ink manufacturers distribute their inks
    > to many, many distribution channels and might even make the ink for
    > the OEM, and contracts and NDAs do not allow them to reveal this. Ink
    > formulation is only part of the issue. Cartridges and or heads have
    > to be designed to spec also. And finally, longevity of the ink is a
    > very costly process to allow for good advanced aging estimate.
    >
    > Of the majors, Lexmark, Dell, HP and Epson have all developed methods
    > to confound refilling.
    >
    > Art
    >
    > measekite wrote:
    >
    >>
    >>
    >> Arthur Entlich wrote:
    >>
    >>> I don't disagree. I find this to be a pervasive problem in the
    >>> computer hardware business. I have rarely found a company that
    >>> doesn't shirk some of it's responsibilities. Canon, as an example
    >>> seem less than forthright about the stability of their ink, and the
    >>> reliability of their printer heads. They have developed a new head
    >>> for their professional wide carriage printers and are supplying
    >>> pigment colorant inks for them, with a gloss and matte ink,
    >>> amazingly very similar sounding to Epson's ink system.
    >>>
    >>> I could enumerate personal stories with bad technology and poor
    >>> company response from dozens of high tech companies, including Epson.
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> You forgot about Microsoft. ;-)
    >>
    >>> I've never said otherwise. I just know a lot more about the issues
    >>> with Epson products because I deal with people who encounter them.
    >>> I don't think they have anything approaching a monopoly for
    >>> problems, even in the printer industry, however, and they certainly
    >>> do make some innovative designs along the way.
    >>>
    >>> Art
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> While I use OEM ink (best for my purposes) Epson, more than the other
    >> companies, have thus far put out designs that appears to foil or make
    >> difficult using other ink.
    >> Notwithstanding my feeling about the 3rd party ink hawkers and the
    >> way they do business along with many poor quality inks that can
    >> damage printers, I would like to see a strong, honest, professional,
    >> and full disclosing aftermarket ink industry that will sell BRANDED
    >> ink in both bottles and prefilled carts through all of the marketing
    >> channels (Brick & Mortor like Costco and Office Depot as well online)
    >> . This will help to drive down the overpriced OEM ink alternatives.
    >>
    >>>
    >>> measekite wrote:
    >>>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>> Arthur Entlich wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>> The little suction pump reminds me of a miniature milking machine.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> I wish the problem with the tube coming off was just the C80. I
    >>>>> have helped people with this problem with C82, C84, CX 5200, CX
    >>>>> 4600 all in one. AND, worse yet, the dang tube tends to fall off
    >>>>> during cartridge replacement, so all the sudden the printer stops
    >>>>> working after a cartridge has been replaced.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Worse still, Epson is very tight-lipped about it, and if it occurs
    >>>>> out of warranty, they have nothing to say at all.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> I find that approach unreasonable. This is a manufacturing or
    >>>>> design defect, and Epson ought to take responsibility for it.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Art
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>> It seems there are a lot of things that Epson does not take
    >>>> responsibility for.
    >>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Davy wrote:
    >>>>>
    >>>>>> The pump system on many an Epson printer consist of a plastic
    >>>>>> tube the
    >>>>>> far end connects to the waste pad. the pump end is situated, for
    >>>>>> obvious reasons in the 'head park tray' just prior to where this is
    >>>>>> connected it goes through a 'U' turn moulding, imagine a wheel
    >>>>>> with a
    >>>>>> llittle bump or hammer on it rotating from a coupling from the paper
    >>>>>> feed gears, as the wheel rotates the bump or hammer pushes against
    >>>>>> the tube in a rotational manner, since the tube is being 'squashed'
    >>>>>> in a 'U' formation causes the ink to be drawn through the tube by
    >>>>>> suction.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> With the Picture Mate, the waste could well be collected by the ink
    >>>>>> cartridge as waste in a seperate chamber and then 'thrown out' with
    >>>>>> the empty tank, why not with all printers?
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> Incidentally in a C80 this plastic tube is a common cause for bad
    >>>>>> printing and clogged heads it has a habit of coming away from the
    >>>>>> end of the head tray, causing ink to build and dry in the 'head
    >>>>>> park'.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> Davy
    >>>>>>
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