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AMD-ATI merger is a nightmare to consumers not Intel

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July 24, 2006 1:51:09 PM

I don't know why people think that it is game over to Intel and be happy about the merger. With this merger, it only means that ATI will focus less on the discrete graphic card market while it seeks to improve the integrated graphic solution for the AMD platform. AMD cannot just dump nVidia in one day and thus, ATI will no longer be so agressive in the competition with nVidia. Its future design will also need to be developed concurrently with AMD CPUs. It will end up with less choices for the consumers.

Of course some people may belive the merger will only strengthen ATI's graphic card business. Although I think that's highly unlikely, let's just assume this is the case which is opposite to what I mentioned above. nVidia will eventually lose its market share and ATI will dominate the market.

In either case I mentioned, it will only lead to domination by either nVidia or ATI. What will lose at the end? That will be us, THE CONSUMERS. We have less choices, the graphic card industry will grow slower which is similar to Creative dominating the sound card market. There is nobody to fight against, they can take their sweet time gaining as much as possible on a single card design before the market saturated. Only then they will release a new design which may only be marginally better than the previous version. You can't complaint then since u have no alternative left.

This merger just breaks the equilibrium while we have Intel fighting with AMD in one market and nVidia and ATI fighting on another battlefield. None seems to be a clear winner before the merger and we, consumers, continue to see new products and enjoy the benefit out from these competuitions. After the merger, I just can't imagine how bad it will become.
July 24, 2006 2:16:34 PM

Only a mouth breathing idiot would argue that going from 4 choices to 2 choices is in the consumers best interest.

Paging 9" ...
July 24, 2006 3:18:11 PM

Yes! Why isn't everybody seeing this. It is a total disaster for the enthusiast consumer unless AMD is completely hands off and even lets an "ATI division" make Intel chipset components. Fat chance.

On the other hand, the PC gaming industry is pretty much dead anyway becuase of the slow and insanely buggy software/driver design cycles.
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July 24, 2006 3:46:46 PM

Quote:


On the other hand, the PC gaming industry is pretty much dead anyway becuase of the slow and insanely buggy software/driver design cycles.


To steal a phrase from spud: Word
July 24, 2006 4:07:37 PM

Don't be so overdramatic. I'm sure that if Amd/Ati wanted to overlook 80% of the market...A.K.A Intel, then they would stop making chips sets for them, but that will never happen. And no Ati won't stop making graphics card, in fact go to dailytech, and check out the article about the multiple gpus/cpus that Amd/Ati are working on, it seems pretty cool.
July 24, 2006 4:16:22 PM

geez, forget AMD. I'm not buying anymore ati products, or AMD.
July 24, 2006 4:36:57 PM

Quote:
Don't be so overdramatic. I'm sure that if Amd/Ati wanted to overlook 80% of the market...A.K.A Intel, then they would stop making chips sets for them, but that will never happen. And no Ati won't stop making graphics card, in fact go to dailytech, and check out the article about the multiple gpus/cpus that Amd/Ati are working on, it seems pretty cool.


it's not dramatic although I agree that this change won't happen in a year or two in order to maintain whatever profit the companies can get.

Although all the spotlights are on the fastest GPU in the world, the integrated graphic has a large impact on the overall graphic market(take a look at the market share of intel on graphics) AMD has always been relatively weaker in this segment and this acquisition of ATI will eventually strengthen it. Given the high research cost involved in discrete graphic's R&D, it is a risky business and may not be that profitable as everyone thinks. If AMD can eventually reach an mutual agreement with nVidia in the future, ATI will slowly phase out from the discrete graphic market while this AMD-ATI focus on the converging CPU/GPU which I believe is more likely an economical solution than a performance solution

Just a few points noted after I read the AMD's FAQ on this merger,
the merged entity is operated in the name of AMD...do u think that will be a hint of less emphasis on the existing ATI brand?
they want to CONVERGE and I just hate this word....I love to see a diversified market and fair competition.
July 24, 2006 4:40:52 PM

I dont like this merger one bit. Maybe now you can get a CPU + GPU in one box :lol: 
July 24, 2006 5:29:14 PM

Quote:
I dont like this merger one bit. Maybe now you can get a CPU + GPU in one box :lol: 


This is the plan by 2008 with 45nm. Dont forget that Intel is very likely to release a competative, high-end DX10 gfx solution next year so consumer's will actually have more choices. This deal isnt going to be finalized till the end of the year so R600 should still see the light of day in Q4 and be readily available for both major platforms.
July 24, 2006 5:30:45 PM

Hmmm short sited are we? Do you really think AMD would let ATI stop making discrete agming cards? Doubtful, why? Because those features trickle down. Ever notice how a few years ago bluetooh was a luxury option on a phone, or how GPS was only on Mercedes type cars? Now you can get bluetooth on almost any new phone, even the free ones, and get GPS in civics (not bashing them just pointing it out). Features trickle down, its inevitable.

Why would AMD let nvidia totaly monopolize the GPU market? There is money to be made there. You are all jumping ship just because there is a storm and you don't know if the ship will survive. The point is we don't know what direction AMD is taking ATI. I know they want to move in the direction of integrating parts of the GPu into the CPU, and why shouldn't they? You do realise we are moving towards a computer on one piece of silicon? It isn't goin to happen in the next 5 years, maybe not in the next 10, but its going to happen.

Seeing as every part of the computer runs through each other (generaly speaking) why is it so illogical to have a CPU specialist and GPU specialist and Chipset specialist under one roof? Is this a risky move? yes, I will be the first one to admit that, but why not go out on a limb, thats where the fruit is.

People panic with change. There are more then 2 outcomes and we can speculate all day and still not reach a conclusion. The point is, we have to wait. You may be right, I may be right, or we may both be wrong, but lets let it happen. The execs think its a good idea to merge, they tend to know more about business and thier companies then we do, give them some credit. They don't make $10 million a year in compensation because they play it safe and just let things happen, CEO's are risk takers and have to look 5-7 years down the road all the time.

I am not saying we should blindly trust this merger, but rather keep a watchful eye. I, for one, will continue to consider AMD and ATI products equally when I buy my next computer here in about 6 months.

Go take a tranquilizer and calm down. It will be an interesting next 12-24 months, just sit back and keep yourself well versed on it and see what happens.
July 24, 2006 5:33:12 PM

I am not thrilled about this at all. I am a purely Intel and ATI fanboy. I assume that ATI will still run smooth with Intle cards but if they are optimized for AMD then i can only wonder at what i will be missing out on.
July 24, 2006 5:39:43 PM

Please pardon my understandings of the market but to me, Intel is a gaint. Intel has chipsets, video and sound under its belt without any other companies helping it. Amd's decision to merge Ati may be to expand foothold on Intel's already powerful market. It is not necessarily a bad thing because both companies are smaller compared to Intel and Nvidia.
July 24, 2006 5:58:58 PM

Quote:
On the other hand, the PC gaming industry is pretty much dead anyway becuase of the slow and insanely buggy software/driver design cycles.


Yet millions upon millions of people play games on PCs every day with new ones being announced almost daily.

And lets see you write a driver that works in every little corner case known to man, with 1000s of games that have to work, supporting multiple generations of graphics APIs, supporting multiple generations of GPUs.....need I go on? Software isn't and never will be perfect.

Seriously that statement probably made 9inch look smart.

Anyone who thinks AMD is going to jepardize ATIs GPU development is an idiot. ATI has a whole group for developing chipsets. Thats the only part that AMD will probably touch. Yes, AMD and ATI will probably optimize their products to work with each other. But that no way means that competition between ATI and Nvidia is going to end. And yes I too hope that Intel will allow ATI to make chipsets for their processors. I don't see AMD minding it either because it means they get to make money off their competition.
July 24, 2006 6:04:04 PM

Quote:
I dont like this merger one bit. Maybe now you can get a CPU + GPU in one box :lol: 


This is the plan by 2008 with 45nm. Dont forget that Intel is very likely to release a competative, high-end DX10 gfx solution next year so consumer's will actually have more choices. This deal isnt going to be finalized till the end of the year so R600 should still see the light of day in Q4 and be readily available for both major platforms.

Uh yeah.....it'll be an integrated, low cost onboard chipset that supports the minimal basic features of DX10 just like their current integrated chipsets support the minimum spec of DX9. It's not going to be competitive with anything but ATI's Express motherboards that have an integrated x300 chip or Nvidias motherboards with a their onboard GPU (forget what model they use. think its a 5200).
July 24, 2006 6:09:04 PM

Quote:
Yes, AMD and ATI will probably optimize their products to work with each other. But that no way means that competition between ATI and Nvidia is going to end. And yes I too hope that Intel will allow ATI to make chipsets for their processors. I don't see AMD minding it either because it means they get to make money off their competition.


Well put. Thats what I have ben trying to say to people but they don't want to listen.

Is it strange for competitors to sell to each other? Maybe, but in any case profit is profit. The source isn't important (as long as its legal). AMD would not be so stupid as to cut off a lucrative line of products.

As you said optimizations will occur, but that doesn't mean cross platform incompatibility. All in all, it should be a fun little merger.

Here's to risky M&A! *raises a glass of whiskey*
July 24, 2006 6:52:55 PM

Well if this means that my next Abit Uguru 939 board will have an onboard x1900xtx for $169.99 then im sold.

If not...



BOOO.

AMD should have purchased a 3rd graphics company to make more choices... like "AMD Buys creatives old line.. callls the new product the 'Banshee Buster'"
July 24, 2006 6:55:29 PM

I have to agree with you. It's a fact of the human condition that change, while inevitable, is always met with fear and resistance. It's just been a day and everyone is speculating this and that without even waiting to see how things develop. AMD, basically, needed this to strengthen it's base.

It's like with Microsoft this year. They lost their A$$ on Xbox in a serious way but they are diversified enough that their SQL Server product helped absorb the loss.

I think this is going to be better for the consumer because it will give AMD a better leg to stand on and be competitive. Intel is the one that delivered the first reactionary salvo by cancelling it's liscensing contract with ATI. This was to be expected of course.

I use both AMD and Intel products as they suit me. I've also used Nvidia and ATI. I would certainly feel better about the state of things knowing that the competition between rivals is going to continue. It benefits the consumer the most. The rivalry between AMD and Intel is going to be intense now because AMD has strengthend itself. Nvidia isn't going to suffer like people think because they are still going to deal with AMD. They do have the superior dual card chipset as well.

Why doom one side and claim total victory for the other? Looks to me like the real winners out of all this is going to be us, the consumer, because the war between rivals just got more level.
July 24, 2006 7:08:29 PM

This merger makes everybody uneasy.

I think Intel largest sales are on OEM product. And I think that’s why AMD acquire ATI, to compete with Intel. But they have to talk to the rest of OEM manufactures and not just Dell.

Everybody knows that acquiring technology is good thing. But I’m curios to know on what contribution ATI will make to AMD to compete with Intel’s new processor.

ATI and Intel ‘wonder what is going to happen. If AMD will construct this merger properly then I think it will be fine.

Since we don't what is going to happen we can only speculate. I’m sure AMD’s best analyst put their thinking hat for a long time about this merger otherwise we are doomed.
July 24, 2006 7:19:21 PM

lol ati will still make graphics cards. if they dont then no point of them anymore really.

kind of like when people choose intel over amd or viseversa. you cant have intel without amd and amd without intel. without amd you would have sucky processors and without intel you would have high costing processors from amd. which indeed does hurt us because i know everyone here loves pricecuts and without competitors.... no more price cuts :( 

so like i said, ati will not stop making graphics cards.
July 24, 2006 7:28:10 PM

If you put it that way, then I guest Christmas is going to be fun, I’ll start writing my wish list now. 8)
July 24, 2006 7:35:36 PM

The only monopoly right now is Microsoft (well, in so far as dominance is concerned) and look how they bend us over a barrell when it comes to an OS.

This is a perfect example why it is good for the consumers to have such fierce competition - it spurs development. But, most of all, it has an inherent price guide.

Let's just hope that ATI/Nvidia and Intel/AMD are still competing long after we are gone
July 24, 2006 7:42:17 PM

"after we are gone" so emotional :( . haha, ill have two kids by then. one will be an intel fanboy. one will be an amd fan boy. ill just buy whatever has the biggest bang for my buck.

but really, this christmas is going to be a good one for me. grand parents gonna get me 2 gigs of corsair ram and a computer case. mom and dad gonna get me most of my parts. im probably gonna come off some mooney buying a colorful fan.
July 24, 2006 7:50:44 PM

What ATI needed was to hook-up with someone who can write drivers--not another bunch of waffer-heads. Unless AMD ponies-up the cash to buy some decent coding help--and shove them down the ATI product team's throat--NVidia is still going to be my first choice. Not that NV's particulary good at it... ATI's product developement task list must look like this:

"Build killer hardware,
Market killer hardware,
Call for American take-out in little white boxes with wire handles,
Buy Intel at 2.50/share,
Gloat on TG forumz using psuedonym about killer hardware,
Write drivers for killer hardware on bar napkin after 14 Wallbangers and have tape clerk compile and post on both TW and US web sites.

As for Intel, they have bigger problems than AMD, and smarter people than anyone posting here (obviously, myself includidded) working on said problems.
July 24, 2006 8:06:52 PM

Um, all the arguments saying that they'll still sell to Intel are now patently false....Read some more people!! Intel has alreay pulled the licenses from ATI!!! So, yes the guys proclaiming doom and gloom are partially correct!
July 24, 2006 10:20:59 PM

Quote:
I am a customer rep for AMD



It is clear to me this guy can not be trusted.
July 24, 2006 10:47:32 PM

I don't see this benefiting consumers yet but I may be wrong. It looks like something that will benefit the money makers at AMD and ATI and to be honest thats what they are emplyed for, not to keep us enthusiasts heppy.
July 24, 2006 10:53:10 PM

a little quick one two punch

this will help consumers because nvida will have to put up or shut up with there gpus and show ati what they got. which this conflict consumers benefit by getting best bang for your buck :) 


gg
July 24, 2006 11:24:28 PM

Quote:
I am a customer rep for AMD



It is clear to me this guy can not be trusted.

WTH?? I never wrote or said that! And that's definitly not my profession
a b à CPUs
a b U Graphics card
July 24, 2006 11:51:35 PM

Quote:
I don't know why people think that it is game over to Intel and be happy about the merger. With this merger, it only means that ATI will focus less on the discrete graphic card market while it seeks to improve the integrated graphic solution for the AMD platform. AMD cannot just dump nVidia in one day and thus, ATI will no longer be so agressive in the competition with nVidia. Its future design will also need to be developed concurrently with AMD CPUs. It will end up with less choices for the consumers.

Of course some people may belive the merger will only strengthen ATI's graphic card business. Although I think that's highly unlikely, let's just assume this is the case which is opposite to what I mentioned above. nVidia will eventually lose its market share and ATI will dominate the market.

In either case I mentioned, it will only lead to domination by either nVidia or ATI. What will lose at the end? That will be us, THE CONSUMERS. We have less choices, the graphic card industry will grow slower which is similar to Creative dominating the sound card market. There is nobody to fight against, they can take their sweet time gaining as much as possible on a single card design before the market saturated. Only then they will release a new design which may only be marginally better than the previous version. You can't complaint then since u have no alternative left.

This merger just breaks the equilibrium while we have Intel fighting with AMD in one market and nVidia and ATI fighting on another battlefield. None seems to be a clear winner before the merger and we, consumers, continue to see new products and enjoy the benefit out from these competuitions. After the merger, I just can't imagine how bad it will become.


What a knee jerk reactionary load of crap. :roll:
July 25, 2006 12:12:08 AM

Quote:
a little quick one two punch

this will help consumers because nvida will have to put up or shut up with there gpus and show ati what they got. which this conflict consumers benefit by getting best bang for your buck :) 


gg


I definitely think ATI will make better gfx cards once they have their hands on AMD's resources and know-how. Not only that, they can probably make them cheaper than nV can. It just might benefit us.
July 25, 2006 12:28:20 AM

Quote:
It looks like something that will benefit the money makers at AMD and ATI and to be honest thats what they are emplyed for, not to keep us enthusiasts heppy.


If they don't keep us happy, guess what. They don't make money. The reason AMD has gotten where it is today is because of the enthusiast.

Besides, both Intel and AMD probably make more money off us than off people buying Dells and crap. I garauntee you that 1000 unit price goes down when you're someone like Dell who buys millions of chips a year. I know the company I work for does it with our stuff. Intel is no different.
July 25, 2006 1:25:41 AM

Quote:
I definitely think ATI will make better gfx cards once they have their hands on AMD's resources and know-how. Not only that, they can probably make them cheaper than nV can. It just might benefit us.


That's a possibility.

But what happen if Intel will favor NVIDIA for their chips just to shake ATI’s/AMD’s merger. This is going to be a whole new microchips war.

Problems if Intel will use ATI until they bring out the second generation of Core processor then leave ATI.
July 25, 2006 2:07:31 AM

Dell was the only customer that enjoyed price cuts. That deal went away the day they started using AMD chips.
a b U Graphics card
July 25, 2006 2:09:32 AM

good post man.
July 25, 2006 2:18:39 AM

I think AMD should buy nvidia also. So they can be like "F*** YOU INTEL! You get matrox." :D 
a b U Graphics card
July 25, 2006 2:26:27 AM

no. we need all for of them <ati,nvidia,intel,amd>

no competition
no evolution
:D 
July 25, 2006 2:28:53 AM

Quote:
I think AMD should buy nvidia also. So they can be like "F*** YOU INTEL! You get matrox." :D 


lol well that would be market domination but it would be funny as hell :-P
intel would be like... FUCK we better get to work on an intergrated card that doesn't suck!
July 25, 2006 2:33:37 AM

Quote:
I think AMD should buy nvidia also. So they can be like "F*** YOU INTEL! You get matrox." :D 


lol well that would be market domination but it would be funny as hell :-P
intel would be like... **** we better get to work on an intergrated card that doesn't suck!

Kinda like they got to work on the 800 series because Prescott sucked? Big improvement Intel... lol 8O
July 25, 2006 3:03:48 AM

Quote:
Dont forget that Intel is very likely to release a competative, high-end DX10 gfx solution next year so consumer's will actually have more choices. This deal isnt going to be finalized till the end of the year so R600 should still see the light of day in Q4 and be readily available for both major platforms.
July 25, 2006 2:30:51 PM

Quote:
I am a customer rep for AMD



It is clear to me this guy can not be trusted.

WTH?? I never wrote or said that! And that's definitly not my profession
He He! I really did say that. And Nvidia sucks I am totaly biased.


Lol sorry im just joking... These quote boxes are evil.


Any way. AMD should have purchased a 3rd graphics company like Matrox so they can bring them into the running and give us more choices.
July 25, 2006 2:35:15 PM

Quote:
a little quick one two punch

this will help consumers because nvida will have to put up or shut up with there gpus and show ati what they got. which this conflict consumers benefit by getting best bang for your buck :) 


gg


I definitely think ATI will make better gfx cards once they have their hands on AMD's resources and know-how. Not only that, they can probably make them cheaper than nV can. It just might benefit us.

im gonna love that. maybe make a cheap all in wonder card for my television on my 20.1' widescreen monitor will make me happy.

note: prices of an x1900 all in wonder went down 75 bucks on newegg. i plan on buying one this week :) .
July 25, 2006 2:48:15 PM

http://www.pricewatch.com/video_cards/985454-1.htm

its even less if you look it up.... unless you are ::SHREAKS:: a New Egg Loyalist!!!


;) 


edit: Smacks nub upside head. Didnt folow links.... thats a good price on New Egg, the rest are cheaper then what that link says, but new egg still is cheaper..

But you can not connect 2 monitors to that AIW? Awe... shoot.
!