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Newbie question regarding Athlon XP

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  • AMD
  • Windows XP
  • Overclocking
Last response: in Overclocking
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July 27, 2006 8:32:11 PM

Hi all,
First post here, so, please, be gentile.

Back in 2003, I bought myself a system. I had a friend of mine who knew more about hardware than me make me a shopping list and then I bought the parts and put the computer together myself (that much, I knew I could do). Now, I'm looking to extract a little more out of what I have, since it's starting to get pretty old. Which brings me to a few questions:

Unfortunately, I don't remember which processor it was that I bought--I could've sworn for the longest time that I bought the Athlon XP 2800+, but after reading some things about it on various websites, I realize that the 2800 is supposed to be running at 2.25Ghz. Unfortunately, mine is showing it's only running at 1.25Ghz at the moment. So, then I started to think that maybe I was mistaken and got the 1800+ instead, and after checking some more out on that, I understand that's supposed to be running at 1533Mhz--still higher than I'm running. After doing some more reasearch, I realized that it is possible that I have the 2800+ in there after all, since it seems like it can run on the motherboard I have--MSI K7N2 Delta Series (DDR Dual Channel 400, FSB 400 edition). So, my first question is; even though I've lost all information regarding my purchase, and really don't have a clue what type of processor is in my machine (stupid, I know), is there some easy way to find out which model processor I have without having to open the case up and remove the heat sink, etc.?

My next question is actually regarding the performance I'm getting from my CPU. If in fact it is a 2800+ -- which I still presume it to be, why would I bet getting such low performance out of it? No matter if I set it to either 166 Mhz FSB or 200 Mhz, it still runs at relatively the same speed (only a few hundred Mhz difference, if I remember correctly). Also, if I go into the multiplier settings and try to change it from 'hardware defaults' (which I read was 12.5 for the 2800+), or whatever it's called, to 13x (the max my BIOS will let it go to), I drop way down to running at only 500Mhz.

If anyone's curious what I'm running for RAM, I originally had Corsair CMX512-2700LL (TWINX XMS PC2700), but now I have cheapo stuff that I picked up from CompUSA while my Corsair DIMMs are back for an RMA. However, the clock speed is not running any slower now than when I had the Corsair in there.

So, I'd greatly appreciate any advice or anything anyone has to offer, or places to look into for more information, etc. I'm happy to offer any more information I can to help diagnose the situation too.

Thanks,
-Chris

edit: I forgot to mention that I posted it here in this forum, because I would like to overclock it once I get the basics figured out. So, if it's deemed inappropriate for this forum, I apologize.

More about : newbie question athlon

July 27, 2006 8:59:21 PM

download CPU-Z it should give you the exact model number.
July 27, 2006 9:13:46 PM

Ok, downloaded CPU-Z and ran it. Tells me it's Barton, which is something, I guess, but Brand ID is blank. I see it's only running at 100.2 Mhz FSB, though--and that's something curious.

-Chris
Related resources
July 27, 2006 9:25:24 PM

You've got a socket A system, which means that your upgrade path is very limited. If you bought a 2800 then you're basically at the top of your capability for that platform.

If your FSB is only 100 MHz, then you've got a serious performance deficiency. If it is a Barton, it should be running at a FSB of 333 or 400 effective. I don't know if that is 166/200 bidirectional or 333/400 actual though. Try updating your BIOS and messing with the settings. The downclocking MIGHT be a function of cheap ram also.
July 27, 2006 9:34:47 PM

Quote:
Ok, downloaded CPU-Z and ran it. Tells me it's Barton, which is something, I guess, but Brand ID is blank. I see it's only running at 100.2 Mhz FSB, though--and that's something curious.

-Chris


how long have you been running that at 100mhz??!

pump the FSB up and watch it fly.. no need to upgrade anymore.
July 27, 2006 9:35:45 PM

Quote:
Ok, downloaded CPU-Z and ran it. Tells me it's Barton, which is something, I guess, but Brand ID is blank. I see it's only running at 100.2 Mhz FSB, though--and that's something curious.

-Chris


I believe that's normal, as it runs in quad data rate i think. Can anyone confirm this?
July 27, 2006 9:38:33 PM

I have a computer with an Athlon XP 2800+
They run at ~2091 mhz stock.

July 27, 2006 9:42:02 PM

Yeah, I'd think it'd be reading a FSB of AT LEAST 166 (since that's what it's set to in the BIOS) resulting in a 333Mhz overall.

According to MSI's Live Update Live BIOS, I've got the latest version--(Phoenix) 7.80

Hopefully, I'll get the RAM back from Corsair pretty soon too, so I can get back to Dual Channel--the new RAM doesn't support Dual Channel. Would the fact that this RAM doesn't support Dual Channel affect the clock speeds?

Thanks for your help.
-Chris
July 27, 2006 9:45:22 PM

Quote:
Yeah, I'd think it'd be reading a FSB of AT LEAST 166 (since that's what it's set to in the BIOS) resulting in a 333Mhz overall.

According to MSI's Live Update Live BIOS, I've got the latest version--(Phoenix) 7.80

Hopefully, I'll get the RAM back from Corsair pretty soon too, so I can get back to Dual Channel--the new RAM doesn't support Dual Channel. Would the fact that this RAM doesn't support Dual Channel affect the clock speeds?

Thanks for your help.
-Chris


I don't believe so, the dual channel will just increase the performance of the system it won't affect clock rates.
July 27, 2006 9:46:12 PM

PC2700 is for FSB 133Mhz
Maybe your board detects the speed of your memory and does not allow you to change it (by changing FSB speed).
Try FSB 133Mhz. 166 and 200 will not work with your RAM if it is on syncronous mode. I don't know if your board has this option in BIOS.
Also try to set it to assynchronous mode and make FSB running at 166Mhz.
In last place I advice you to try DDR 3200 (333Mhz) and set FSB to 166Mhz.
Hope it helped in something.
July 27, 2006 9:53:02 PM

Quote:

how long have you been running that at 100mhz??!

pump the FSB up and watch it fly.. no need to upgrade anymore.


Yeah, that's one of the problems, I think, I've got the FSB at 166Mhz in the BIOS, but it's only running at 100Mhz.

I'm not sure how long it's been like that, but I'm quite sure I've only been running at 1.25Ghz as long as I've had the computer (3 years now).

Quote:
I have a computer with an Athlon XP 2800+
They run at ~2091 mhz stock.

My CPU-Z readout is exactly the same with the exception of Core Speed, FSB, and Bus Speed. What's the RAM you're running?

Thanks for everyone's help.
-Chris
July 27, 2006 9:59:40 PM

Quote:

I have a computer with an Athlon XP 2800+
They run at ~2091 mhz stock.

My CPU-Z readout is exactly the same with the exception of Core Speed, FSB, and Bus Speed. What's the RAM you're running?

Thanks for everyone's help.
-Chris

Its running on just value RAM (Samsung) DDR333.
July 27, 2006 10:09:51 PM

Quote:
PC2700 is for FSB 133Mhz
Maybe your board detects the speed of your memory and does not allow you to change it (by changing FSB speed).
Try FSB 133Mhz. 166 and 200 will not work with your RAM if it is on syncronous mode. I don't know if your board has this option in BIOS.
Also try to set it to assynchronous mode and make FSB running at 166Mhz.
In last place I advice you to try DDR 3200 (333Mhz) and set FSB to 166Mhz.
Hope it helped in something.

You're off by 1. PC2100 is fsb 133 MHz. PC2700 is FSB 166, and PC3200 is fsb 200MHz.
July 27, 2006 10:12:04 PM

I'd recommend setting RAM and FSB speeds to AUTO in the bios.
July 27, 2006 10:21:55 PM

you'r right :p  sorry
July 27, 2006 10:35:45 PM

Ok, I do remember that I was sure to get PC2700 RAM at the very least for my temporary stuff while the Corsair is being repaired/exchanged.

Here're my settings under Advanced Chipset Features:

CPU FSB Clock - 166 Mhz
x CPU Interface - Normal
x FSB/DRAM Ratio - By SPD
Current DRAM Clock - 166 Mhz
x Memory Timings - By SPD
x T-(RAS) - 7
x T-(RCD) - 3
x T-(RP) - 3
x CAS Latency - 2.5
FSB Spread Spectrum - 0.50%

-Chris
July 27, 2006 10:42:58 PM

Actually i think that's as fast as you can go without 'overclocking something'
PC2700 is only 166mhz, 333 effectively. And I believe the 2800 only will do 333 FSB without overclocking.
Still, CPU-z should have came up with more info than that
July 27, 2006 10:58:07 PM

Good Sir,

Your processor FSB and Multiplier settings are wrong.

1st try setting all of you mem and cpu settings to auto defaults.

2nd try 12.5x with 166 FSB


That should be it unless there is dmg.
July 27, 2006 11:09:03 PM

Hi blakboks,
I have my XP2500+ Barton here - it runs 166 x 11 = ~1833MHz.
It has the lowest multiplier and so it runs @ 200FSB. Your mobo probably supports only 166FSB (and it's not even too cooperative with that...) so no 200FSB for you, and you need PC3200 for that anyway.
You want to run your RAM synchronously with FSB @ 166MHz (333DDR) which is PC2700 speed.
Tell us your motherboard model. Sometimes they have jumper-config and 'jumper-free' mode must be set...
If you have a real Barton CPU, the Auto setting should get you 166FSB.
Regards
July 27, 2006 11:21:14 PM

I am somewhat confused with what CPU-Z states too.

I built my machine 4 years ago as an Athlon XP 2000
Just checked it on CPU-Z and it states it is and Athlon MP Palomino. Clock speed is something like 1125mhz. I might believe its an Athlon MP Palomino and blame my failing memory except I still have the processor sticker on the side of the case and that says AMD Athlon XP.

Questions for you:

Can CPU-Z be wrong?
Can it wrongly identify AMD or other processors if they are not running at the correct speed.
Do I have an Athlon XP or an Athlon MP Palomino?

Thanks in advance for your suggestions
July 28, 2006 12:01:12 AM

Maybe hte problem your having has to do with a jumper or something. That would explain why its been running a 1.25ghz the whole time. When you first built your pc you never changed the jumper to take the FSB from 100 to 166. Ive made that mistake myself with some older boards. Consult your motherboard manual to find out how to change jumper. Hope this helps.

CPU-Z can't detect overclock so it is possible (or atleast the older cpuz couldnt). If you bought a processor that was 166 x 10 for a 1.6ghz Athlon XP something (say Thuroughbred 1800+). And you were to overclock it to 200x 10 for a 2ghz cpu. CPUz would detect it as a Barton 3000+ because its programed to recognze a cpu with 200fsb and 10 multiplier as the 3000+. Whether its overclocked or not it would not know.
July 28, 2006 12:11:40 AM

the motherboard manufacturers website should state which FSB and RAM speeds are supported by your motherboard... if your FSB is clocked down to 100MHz or so, thats probably just cuz its clocked down to a failsafe value, but thats also not the correct FSB speed either... also, this XP PR chart should help in determining your correct cpu...

AMD XP Processors & Their PR Rating

PR MHz FSB Multiplier Core
1500+ 1333 133 10.0 Palomino
1600+ 1400 133 10.5 Palmoino
1700+ 1467 133 11.0 Palomino/T-Bred
1800+ 1533 133 11.5 Palomino/T-Bred
1900+ 1600 133 12.0 Palomino/T-Bred
2000+ 1667 133 12.5 Palomino/T-Bred
2100+ 1733 133 13.0 Palomino/T-Bred
2200+ 1800 133 13.5 T-Bred
2400+ 2000 133 15.0 T-Bred
2500+ 1833 166 11.0 Barton
2600+ 2133 133 16.0 T-Bred
2600+ 2083 166 12.5 T-Bred
2700+ 2167 166 13.0 T-Bred
2800+ 2250 166 13.5 T-Bred
2800+ 2083 166 12.5 Barton
3000+ 2167 166 13.0 Barton
3200+ 2200 200 11.0 Barton
July 28, 2006 12:33:38 AM

Quote:
Good Sir,

Your processor FSB and Multiplier settings are wrong.

1st try setting all of you mem and cpu settings to auto defaults.

2nd try 12.5x with 166 FSB


That should be it unless there is dmg.

Those settings I gave are the defaults--and the defaults are 12.5x / 166 Mhz.
Quote:
Hi blakboks,
I have my XP2500+ Barton here - it runs 166 x 11 = ~1833MHz.
It has the lowest multiplier and so it runs @ 200FSB. Your mobo probably supports only 166FSB (and it's not even too cooperative with that...) so no 200FSB for you, and you need PC3200 for that anyway.
You want to run your RAM synchronously with FSB @ 166MHz (333DDR) which is PC2700 speed.
Tell us your motherboard model. Sometimes they have jumper-config and 'jumper-free' mode must be set...
If you have a real Barton CPU, the Auto setting should get you 166FSB.
Regards

I have the MSI K7N2 Delta Series (MS-6570).
I haven't seen any options anywhere for running RAM synchronously or asynchronously with the CPU--or is that what FSB/DRAM Ratio is?, because that's set to 1:1 by default if I remember correctly.
Quote:
Maybe hte problem your having has to do with a jumper or something. That would explain why its been running a 1.25ghz the whole time. When you first built your pc you never changed the jumper to take the FSB from 100 to 166. Ive made that mistake myself with some older boards. Consult your motherboard manual to find out how to change jumper. Hope this helps.

I'll definitely check out the jumper situation and report back my findings. Last I remembered (when I built the computer) the only jumper options was for resetting the CMOS and normal operation.
Thanks everyone again,
-Chris
July 28, 2006 12:47:42 AM

Ok! Fantastic!
The problem has been solved! Whooo...what a good feeling.
Turns out it was just the jumpers. The mobo has a 'safe mode' on it that limits the FSB to 100Mhz. Must be when I was building the computer I put it on that 'just to be safe', and I never went back to be sure that I could put it on the normal mode. Of course, after 3 years went by, I totally forgot about that jumper--I thought it only had the one jumper the whole time, so I didn't think to check the 'jumpers' section of the manual when I was trying to figure things out. (of course, I also didn't know I was only running 100Mhz FSB until I downloaded CPU-Z today).

Thanks again for everyone's help, you've all been fantastic! Time to start pushing this thing. Hopefully I don't overheat it too much--I was running about 50C back when it was only running 100Mhz, can't imagine what it'll be now (and beyond).
-Chris
July 28, 2006 12:55:45 AM

your xp core will be stable up until about 85C, so at 50C, youre well within safe temperatures
July 28, 2006 3:11:12 AM

I almost forgot the FSB Jumper. You have to change it to enable above 100 FSB from the factory. Good call.

You should check that you have good ventalation on your case. Check temps with the side of the case open. Enjoy your way faster machine!!!!!


Good Luck.
July 28, 2006 1:05:22 PM

haha, the same mistake i made 3 years ago. Glad to be of service.

(had to change that, been building pcs for 6 years now) I didnt make hte mistake for 3 years in a row, more like 3 years ago.
July 29, 2006 10:39:15 PM

Same mistake I have been making for four years!
Seriously thanks everyone for your help - I will reset the jumper.

I've just noticed a positive on this - I have a 4 year old machine running too safely and it means that it still has some performance in it!
July 30, 2006 2:05:10 AM

That's funny that other people are having the same issues as I had. I wonder how many people out there are running on underclocked computers, then.

-Chris
July 30, 2006 2:25:50 AM

haha, thats not the worst of it. I built many of those pcs for a company. Two years back i had to track down like 25 pcs distributed among 3 different offices to fix that jumper problem (i thought it was just a bios issue and i just hte good ol' set it and forget it and ever checked to see if it saved properly). That was fun :roll: .

What was probably worse than that was the exposed dies of hte Xps. Some of hte copper hs/fs i got were not properly finished and would crack teh edges of the dies becuase it wasnt a flush surface. The fun part is my version of "extreme" heatsink lapping to get a bulk order of 20 working after destroying 1 cpu. (the heatsinks were so bad that u could still see were hte diamond blade saws cut into the copper to make hte device in the first place). The grooves pressed hte tension of hte clip to like a 2mm slit on the die of a cpu. **Crack**.
August 7, 2006 7:20:13 PM

I've just found that it is not the jumper that was wrong - I correctly set that at 133mhz 4 years ago. What I forgot to do was change the FSB in the bios.

So what I have now is an athlon xp 1800. I don't want to sound ungrateful but I am sure I bought an athlon xp 2000! Is there any reason why a motherboard will only accept a processor running at 1800 instead of its 2000 rating?

core speed = 1536
multiplier = 11.5

If it is a 2000 multiplier should be 12.5. Bios wont accept a 12.5 multiplier so presumably it is locked.
Have I got an 1800 or did I just imagine I bought a 2000?
August 7, 2006 7:59:52 PM

Pull the HS off and look at the lable. It will tell you what you have.

IRT topic, that's on hellava upgrade. You just got a great CPU increase in speed for nothing. :wink:
August 8, 2006 9:04:36 AM

Yes, I was trying to avoid taking the heat sink and fan off due to having to clean it all up and reapply thermal paste and all that. I might just let it be - as you say already got a 'free' speed upgrade :D 
!