question about printable CD's and DVD's

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

This is probably a 101 question to lots of posters, so I hope you dont
mind helping.

I am just trying to understand the basics of the relatively new thing
where you can print on CD's. I have been burning CD's just a year or so
and sometimes use the stickers, which can be a pain. I even had a
problem with a DVD playing until I realized a tiny bit of the edge was
not adhered down 100%. So this idea of printing without using stickers
is very appealing. I see they sell "printable CD's (and DVD's)" so
obviously the stock of unused ones I have now will just have to get
used up.

Tell me if my assumptions are right -
I need a special printer to do this? and of course to buy the printable
media?

But I have also heard about burning images on your media in a driver as
well? Is this just yet another alternative means? What would that
entail? Would I need a new driver. I currently have a cd burner and dvd
burner in one. I have a bay for another drive, would I just get an
"image burning" driver to add or would I have to burn the data and
image in the same place?
What are the advantage or disadvantages of burning an image vs
printing.

Thanks
19 answers Last reply
More about question printable
  1. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    jmpc@msn.com wrote:


    > I am just trying to understand the basics of the relatively new thing
    > where you can print on CD's. ...
    >
    > Tell me if my assumptions are right -
    > I need a special printer to do this? and of course to buy the printable
    > media?

    Yes. Some Epson photo printers can print on special printable disks.

    >
    > But I have also heard about burning images on your media in a driver as
    > well?

    This sounds like LightScribe, a system developed by HP which uses the laser
    in a disk burner to print on a special disk.


    -- Steve
  2. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    We just changed our DVD burner to a Lightscribe (was able to get the
    drive from Buy.com for $68 after a few deals. While I'd prefer full
    color, the professional look and end of sticky labels is worth it to
    use Lightscribe for most of our projects instead.

    HP claims it is working on "Color Lightscribe" for the future and
    faster speeds for the burners. I am lost, however, on how they'll get
    full color labeling out of Lightscribe.
  3. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    <jmpc@msn.com> wrote in message
    news:1117313709.920188.60210@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

    > But I have also heard about burning images on your media in a driver as
    > well? Is this just yet another alternative means? What would that
    > entail? Would I need a new driver. I currently have a cd burner and dvd
    > burner in one. I have a bay for another drive, would I just get an
    > "image burning" driver to add or would I have to burn the data and
    > image in the same place?
    > What are the advantage or disadvantages of burning an image vs
    > printing.

    The "Lightscribe" system is the one that burns the image on the CD in your CD
    or DVD writer. This requires an extra sensor in the writer, so you need a
    drive that is Lightscribe enabled. They are getting pretty widespread now but
    have only been out for six months or so. Older drives will not work, you would
    need a new drive. Lightscribe enabled DVD writers are down to about $75 at
    this point. Special media is required.

    As for advantages/disadvantages: both types require special media. Printing
    can do colors, Lightscribe currently does not. Lightscribe will not smear,
    printed labels may. In North America only Epson currently offers printers
    enabled for CD printing.

    Regards,
    Bob Headrick, not speaking for my employer HP (the guys that invented and
    license Lightscribe)
  4. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    I didn't quite understand the last paragraph of your post...are you asking if
    there is a CD/DVD burner that also prints on the media? If so then I have never
    heard of one but I guess its is possible technically.
    Canon and Epson (maybe others) make printers that will do this however - Yes it
    is a special printer but the same printer also prints on standard paper. The
    canon printers that do this are not available in the USA (Don't know where you
    are) but are available elsewhere. I understand the Epson printers that print on
    DVD/CD media are available in the USA. Suggest you Google for information on
    what is available in your geography.
    Tony

    jmpc@msn.com wrote:
    >This is probably a 101 question to lots of posters, so I hope you dont
    >mind helping.
    >
    >I am just trying to understand the basics of the relatively new thing
    >where you can print on CD's. I have been burning CD's just a year or so
    >and sometimes use the stickers, which can be a pain. I even had a
    >problem with a DVD playing until I realized a tiny bit of the edge was
    >not adhered down 100%. So this idea of printing without using stickers
    >is very appealing. I see they sell "printable CD's (and DVD's)" so
    >obviously the stock of unused ones I have now will just have to get
    >used up.
    >
    >Tell me if my assumptions are right -
    >I need a special printer to do this? and of course to buy the printable
    >media?
    >
    >But I have also heard about burning images on your media in a driver as
    >well? Is this just yet another alternative means? What would that
    >entail? Would I need a new driver. I currently have a cd burner and dvd
    >burner in one. I have a bay for another drive, would I just get an
    >"image burning" driver to add or would I have to burn the data and
    >image in the same place?
    >What are the advantage or disadvantages of burning an image vs
    >printing.
    >
    >Thanks
    >
  5. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    On Sat, 28 May 2005 14:55:09 -0700, jmpc wrote:

    > But I have also heard about burning images on your media in a driver as
    > well? Is this just yet another alternative means? What would that
    > entail? Would I need a new driver. I currently have a cd burner and dvd
    > burner in one. I have a bay for another drive, would I just get an
    > "image burning" driver to add or would I have to burn the data and
    > image in the same place?
    > What are the advantage or disadvantages of burning an image vs
    > printing.

    Your other questions have already been answered but the above wasn't made
    very clear.

    Yes, there are "printers" which can burn an image onto the top, label side
    of a CD/DVD. Personally, I'm not impressed that much by them even if the
    technology is interesting. The discs are expensive and it's monochrome
    only.

    Your best bet is whatever make of colour inkjet you fancy or is available
    where you are which has the adaptor tray for printing CD/DVD discs. The
    printable discs are only slightly more expensive than non-printables. You
    can even get "silver" printable discs which are a sort of matt silver, a
    bit like brushed aluminium. They can produce some nice metallic effects
    if you choose the right sort of colour gradients in your graphics package.

    --
    Dave
  6. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    <Tony> wrote in message news:119hno6ke11egf6@news.supernews.com...
    >I didn't quite understand the last paragraph of your post...are you asking
    >if
    > there is a CD/DVD burner that also prints on the media? If so then I have
    > never
    > heard of one but I guess its is possible technically.

    He's probably referring to the new Litescribe burners
    http://www.lightscribe.com/, using special media they can 'burn' an image
    onto the front of the disc surface.
  7. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    Ivor Floppy wrote:
    > <Tony> wrote in message news:119hno6ke11egf6@news.supernews.com...
    >
    >>I didn't quite understand the last paragraph of your post...are you asking
    >>if
    >>there is a CD/DVD burner that also prints on the media? If so then I have
    >>never
    >>heard of one but I guess its is possible technically.
    >
    >
    > He's probably referring to the new Litescribe burners
    > http://www.lightscribe.com/, using special media they can 'burn' an image
    > onto the front of the disc surface.
    >
    > The lightscribe burners are very slow and have no color.
    better to go with a cd printer.The epson R200 prints very nice on
    printable cds.
    John.H.


    >
  8. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    Hi,

    I'm just starting to print on DVDs with an Epson printer (R1800) and have
    found it delightfully satisfying to finally be able to get a nicely finished
    disk for the effort I've put into making my own movies on the disks. I very
    much recommend it. I have heard good and bad reports about the R200 (the
    cheapest of the Epson lot that will do this) so I'd recommend asking from
    others what has worked well for them. I've read about Lightscribe and did
    not consider it because only a single color can be achieved and one needs a
    burner that will handle Lightscribe.

    --
    Jan Alter
    bearpuf@verizon.net
    or
    jalter@phila.k12.pa.us
    "Steve Dunbar" <stvdnb@yahoo.com> wrote in message
    news:119hr08h11tkp9a@news.supernews.com...
    > jmpc@msn.com wrote:
    >
    >
    >> I am just trying to understand the basics of the relatively new thing
    >> where you can print on CD's. ...
    >>
    >> Tell me if my assumptions are right -
    >> I need a special printer to do this? and of course to buy the printable
    >> media?
    >
    > Yes. Some Epson photo printers can print on special printable disks.
    >
    >>
    >> But I have also heard about burning images on your media in a driver as
    >> well?
    >
    > This sounds like LightScribe, a system developed by HP which uses the
    > laser
    > in a disk burner to print on a special disk.
    >
    >
    > -- Steve
  9. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    Thanks
    Always something to learn!
    Tony


    "Ivor Floppy" <Ivor@somewhere.uk> wrote:
    >
    ><Tony> wrote in message news:119hno6ke11egf6@news.supernews.com...
    >>I didn't quite understand the last paragraph of your post...are you asking
    >>if
    >> there is a CD/DVD burner that also prints on the media? If so then I have
    >> never
    >> heard of one but I guess its is possible technically.
    >
    >He's probably referring to the new Litescribe burners
    >http://www.lightscribe.com/, using special media they can 'burn' an image
    >onto the front of the disc surface.
    >
    >
    >
  10. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    On Sat, 28 May 2005 21:13:42 -0000, Tony <> wrote:

    >I didn't quite understand the last paragraph of your post...are you asking if
    >there is a CD/DVD burner that also prints on the media? If so then I have never
    >heard of one but I guess its is possible technically.

    There is one but it's not ink or other conventional way. It uses
    light to "scribe" monochrome image on the surface of the CD. And only
    certain type of CD-R can be used this way, any other plain CD-R can't
    be used in this manner.

    It's OK if you don't want to get separate printer for direct to CD
    printing and you don't want to fuss around with CD labeling kit but
    I'd avoid it otherwise because it's only mono image and a bit
    overpriced compared to separate burner and cheap inkjet printer with
    cheap CD label kit.
    --
    When you hear the toilet flush, and hear the words "uh oh", it's already
    too late. - by anonymous Mother in Austin, TX
    To reply, replace digi.mon with phreaker.net
  11. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    "Bob Headrick" <bobh@proaxis.com> wrote in message
    news:119icd1mhr11q3b@corp.supernews.com...
    >
    > <jmpc@msn.com> wrote in message
    > news:1117313709.920188.60210@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
    >
    >> But I have also heard about burning images on your media in a driver as
    >> well? Is this just yet another alternative means? What would that
    >> entail? Would I need a new driver. I currently have a cd burner and dvd
    >> burner in one. I have a bay for another drive, would I just get an
    >> "image burning" driver to add or would I have to burn the data and
    >> image in the same place?
    >> What are the advantage or disadvantages of burning an image vs
    >> printing.
    >
    > The "Lightscribe" system is the one that burns the image on the CD in your
    > CD or DVD writer. This requires an extra sensor in the writer, so you
    > need a drive that is Lightscribe enabled. They are getting pretty
    > widespread now but have only been out for six months or so. Older drives
    > will not work, you would need a new drive. Lightscribe enabled DVD
    > writers are down to about $75 at this point. Special media is required.
    >
    > As for advantages/disadvantages: both types require special media.
    > Printing can do colors, Lightscribe currently does not. Lightscribe will
    > not smear, printed labels may. In North America only Epson currently
    > offers printers enabled for CD printing.
    >
    > Regards,
    > Bob Headrick, not speaking for my employer HP (the guys that invented and
    > license Lightscribe)

    You forgot:

    Printing takes about 2 minutes or less per disk, Lightscribe takes about
    HALF AN HOUR (!)
    http://www.cdrlabs.com/reviews/index.php?reviewid=262&page=Features
  12. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    I believe he is referring to Lightscribe, which is a new technology that
    has just been released retail. You flip the specially sensitized disks
    over and can burn an image into the surface in black. They claim it
    will not harm the data already on the disk, and it is long lasting.

    Tony wrote:

    > I didn't quite understand the last paragraph of your post...are you asking if
    > there is a CD/DVD burner that also prints on the media? If so then I have never
    > heard of one but I guess its is possible technically.
    > Canon and Epson (maybe others) make printers that will do this however - Yes it
    > is a special printer but the same printer also prints on standard paper. The
    > canon printers that do this are not available in the USA (Don't know where you
    > are) but are available elsewhere. I understand the Epson printers that print on
    > DVD/CD media are available in the USA. Suggest you Google for information on
    > what is available in your geography.
    > Tony
    >
    > jmpc@msn.com wrote:
    >
    >>This is probably a 101 question to lots of posters, so I hope you dont
    >>mind helping.
    >>
    >>I am just trying to understand the basics of the relatively new thing
    >>where you can print on CD's. I have been burning CD's just a year or so
    >>and sometimes use the stickers, which can be a pain. I even had a
    >>problem with a DVD playing until I realized a tiny bit of the edge was
    >>not adhered down 100%. So this idea of printing without using stickers
    >>is very appealing. I see they sell "printable CD's (and DVD's)" so
    >>obviously the stock of unused ones I have now will just have to get
    >>used up.
    >>
    >>Tell me if my assumptions are right -
    >>I need a special printer to do this? and of course to buy the printable
    >>media?
    >>
    >>But I have also heard about burning images on your media in a driver as
    >>well? Is this just yet another alternative means? What would that
    >>entail? Would I need a new driver. I currently have a cd burner and dvd
    >>burner in one. I have a bay for another drive, would I just get an
    >>"image burning" driver to add or would I have to burn the data and
    >>image in the same place?
    >>What are the advantage or disadvantages of burning an image vs
    >>printing.
    >>
    >>Thanks
    >>
    >
    >
  13. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    On Sun, 29 May 2005 11:38:17 GMT, "Ivor Floppy" <Ivor@somewhere.uk>
    wrote:

    >You forgot:
    >
    >Printing takes about 2 minutes or less per disk, Lightscribe takes about
    >HALF AN HOUR (!)
    >http://www.cdrlabs.com/reviews/index.php?reviewid=262&page=Features

    Half an hour for mono image?!? Then how long would a color version
    take to scribe if that ever comes out? 2 hours?

    In half hour, I could print out a batch of CD labels at about 30
    seconds per page (2 CD label per page) with good quality image and a
    few minutes or so for each CD-R plus a minute to hand label each CD.
    Let see... probably a dozen per half hour by inkjet printer vs one in
    half hour with lightscribe.
    --
    When you hear the toilet flush, and hear the words "uh oh", it's already
    too late. - by anonymous Mother in Austin, TX
    To reply, replace digi.mon with phreaker.net
  14. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    "Impmon" <impmon@digi.mon> wrote in message
    news:36hk91hij7rjkncrvnhipos1atrvkdld67@4ax.com...
    > On Sun, 29 May 2005 11:38:17 GMT, "Ivor Floppy" <Ivor@somewhere.uk>
    > wrote:
    >
    >>You forgot:
    >>
    >>Printing takes about 2 minutes or less per disk, Lightscribe takes about
    >>HALF AN HOUR (!)
    >>http://www.cdrlabs.com/reviews/index.php?reviewid=262&page=Features
    >
    > Half an hour for mono image?!?

    Yup - click on the link above for a review of a Lightscribe burner, or
    there's here http://www.lightscribe.com/index.aspx - a nice website telling
    you all you need to know about lightscribe *except* how damn long it takes
    to burn a label....:)

    It looks like a nice(ish) idea *if* the cost of the media was the same as
    inkjet printable stuff (the image on a DVD is sandwiched between the plastic
    layers so it's not going to rub off..). So far, the only price I can find is
    £9.99 for 5 off - I can get *25* inkjet printable A grade's for the same
    price (actually slighty less)*.


    > Then how long would a color version take to scribe if that ever comes out?
    > 2 hours?
    Your guess is a good as mine. In theory it could take the same time as a
    grayscale image.

    >
    > In half hour, I could print out a batch of CD labels at about 30
    > seconds per page (2 CD label per page) with good quality image and a
    > few minutes or so for each CD-R plus a minute to hand label each CD.

    Using my Epson R200 at absolute maximum quality settings, (Photo RPM)
    printing a CD/DVD takes about 2 or 3 mins. Printing at more normal quality
    setting (hardly noticeable quality drop unless your printing photographs on
    to the disc) its down to about a minute.


    > Let see... probably a dozen per half hour by inkjet printer vs one in
    > half hour with lightscribe.

    * Or, I could get
    BUNDLE DEAL: 25 Datasafe Printable 8x DVD-R --AND-- Ridisc/Datasafe
    R200/R300 Cartridge Set (2x black and 1 of each of the other 5 colours) for
    £8.99!

    Bargain..:)
  15. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    > I am just trying to understand the basics of the relatively new thing
    > where you can print on CD's. I have been burning CD's just a year or so
    > and sometimes use the stickers, which can be a pain. I even had a
    > problem with a DVD playing until I realized a tiny bit of the edge was
    > not adhered down 100%.

    You can get an inkjet that prints on inkjet printable CDs/DVDs. Epson
    r200, r300, and r800 to name a few. Non-north American Canon ip pixma
    series can also print on CDs/DVDS, north american models *can* if you
    tweek with the settings and have the right sized tray. You are pretty
    much limited to inkjet printable discs, mostly they are white but some
    have a clear primer that accept ink. Expect to pay 30 to 80 cents/disc
    mail order. Costco carries TDK white printables either $20 or $30 for
    a 50pack. The r200 costs about $100 and takes 6 inktanks averaging
    about $12.50 each Expect a disc to be finished in a min or two on the
    epson, the canon is faster. 3rd party ink can lower your long term
    costs. The Epsons waste much ink, which is stored in a diaper that
    can't be replaced by the end user. It's a good idea to invest in extra
    tubing and route the waste ink into a jug otherwise your desk could be
    covered in ink, like mine was. If it's under warranty no big deal,
    otherwise expect a fee close to the value of your printer.

    There is also the Primera Z1 thermal ribbon printable
    http://www.primera.com/signaturez1.html and I think Casio also makes a
    thermal ribbon printable. I don't know how well it works on normal
    CDs. About the same price per disc as inkjet printable I believe.
    Ribbons for the Z1 cost about $20 a pop, are good for in theory
    200discs acording to them, and near as i'm aware you can only use one
    color at a time. Costs more than ink but won't wash away in the rain.
    If you already have a printer the Z1 will take up less extra space.

    And lastly HP's LaserScribe which is monochrome and from what i've read
    will do an image on a disk in under 1/2 hour, if you are lucky. The
    drive costs less than either the Epson or the Primera printer, but the
    media cost is a good deal higher. If you are already in the market for
    a DVD burner it doesn't cost much more. I see the price for DVD+R
    laserscribe discks at $1.60 each for a 30 pack and no DVD-R yet.
    Lightscribe CDrs have dropped in price to 60cent's each. I have to
    admit the idea is sound but the technology is young, slow, and spendy.
  16. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    Hi, I have lots of success using my Canon Pixma IP4000 on directly
    printing on CDs.
    Since I still have lots of label stickers left, I would first stick the
    stickers on the CD using a CD stomper, then insert it on my printer's
    special cd tray, and print on it.
    But I understand that the Direct CD Printing on Canons is not available
    in the USA due to patent issues with Epson.
  17. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    > It's OK if you don't want to get separate printer for direct to CD
    > printing and you don't want to fuss around with CD labeling kit but
    > I'd avoid it otherwise because it's only mono image and a bit
    > overpriced compared to separate burner and cheap inkjet printer with
    > cheap CD label kit.

    I wouldn't consider a cheap label kit my self. I did pickup a 120pack
    of Memorex labels for about $20 or so, or about 16cent/disc. Price
    wise very acceptable. But it says on the package not to use the full
    faced labels because they might cause damage to your drive and your
    media. Call me silly but that's but any product that says not to use
    it should be avoided. In all fairness they reccomend the hub labels,
    and it's possible those might work better, so long as they don't come
    off and jam in your drive.

    The last time I looked into Lightscribe the media was comming down in
    price but still no DVD-Rs on the market. If your bag is CD-r though
    and you have an extra 1/2 hour or so to burn a label this might work
    for you and 60cent a pop if you buy a 30pack. Verbatim 100packs for
    white inkjet printable is closer to cent/pop plus ink, other options
    can be as low as 10cent/pop.

    I like the idea of Lightscribe even though it's monochrome. I don't
    like the cost, nor do I like the fact that making an image takes so
    long.
  18. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    "zakezuke" <zakezuke_us@yahoo.com> wrote:

    > You can get an inkjet that prints on inkjet printable CDs/DVDs. Epson
    > r200, r300, and r800 to name a few. Non-north American Canon ip pixma
    > series can also print on CDs/DVDS, north american models *can* if you
    > tweek with the settings and have the right sized tray. You are pretty
    > much limited to inkjet printable discs, mostly they are white but some
    > have a clear primer that accept ink. Expect to pay 30 to 80 cents/disc
    > mail order. Costco carries TDK white printables either $20 or $30 for
    > a 50pack. The r200 costs about $100 and takes 6 inktanks averaging
    > about $12.50 each Expect a disc to be finished in a min or two on the
    > epson, the canon is faster. 3rd party ink can lower your long term
    > costs. The Epsons waste much ink, which is stored in a diaper that
    > can't be replaced by the end user. It's a good idea to invest in extra
    > tubing and route the waste ink into a jug otherwise your desk could be
    > covered in ink, like mine was. If it's under warranty no big deal,
    > otherwise expect a fee close to the value of your printer.

    Point your browser to web site like www.SuperMediastore.com to enjoy lower
    price. Yup! I have been using Inkjet Printable CD/DVD for some years now.
  19. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    On 28 May 2005 13:55:09 -0700, jmpc@msn.com wrote:

    >This is probably a 101 question to lots of posters, so I hope you dont
    >mind helping.
    >
    >I am just trying to understand the basics of the relatively new thing
    >where you can print on CD's. I have been burning CD's just a year or so
    >and sometimes use the stickers, which can be a pain. I even had a
    >problem with a DVD playing until I realized a tiny bit of the edge was
    >not adhered down 100%. So this idea of printing without using stickers
    >is very appealing. I see they sell "printable CD's (and DVD's)" so
    >obviously the stock of unused ones I have now will just have to get
    >used up.
    >
    >Tell me if my assumptions are right -
    >I need a special printer to do this? and of course to buy the printable
    >media?
    >
    >But I have also heard about burning images on your media in a driver as
    >well? Is this just yet another alternative means? What would that
    >entail? Would I need a new driver. I currently have a cd burner and dvd
    >burner in one. I have a bay for another drive, would I just get an
    >"image burning" driver to add or would I have to burn the data and
    >image in the same place?
    >What are the advantage or disadvantages of burning an image vs
    >printing.
    >
    >Thanks

    Hi jmpc:

    I use an Epson Stylus Photo R300 USB2 InkJet printer which prints
    directly onto discs.

    http://www.epson.com/cgi-bin/Store/consumer/consDetail.jsp?BV_UseBVCookie=yes&oid=37368458

    There is a less expensive R200 which does this too.
    Very pleased all around with this printer.

    I've printed onto Verbatim Printable Silver CD-Rs and Verbatim
    Printable White DVD-R discs.
    Very pleased with the results on both

    http://www.verbatim.com/products/products_subcategory.cfm?pc_id=F2316988-65B0-5A0F-8CF84BCB85E482E7&pc_parent=F0B3C67F-C09F-2EAD-7CF69091275180E1

    I will soon be building a separate MS MCE2005 computer and want to get
    a new dual layer burner for it.
    I'm looking at this one:
    BenQ 16X DL DVD+/-RW with LightScribe Technology - Retail Bundle
    Black DW1625-0C4
    http://www.benq.us/Products/DVDRewriter/index.cfm?product=542
    With this burner you flip the burned disc over and laser burn what
    you wish.
    Basically an HP invention that is licensed out to other burner mfrs.
    Very nice I believe but slowish.

    Here is the home page for LightScribe:
    http://www.lightscribe.com/

    The media from Verbatim for LightScribe has just come into stock where
    is usually buy this kind of thing (Staples Business Depot)

    http://www.verbatim.com/products/product_category.cfm?pc_parent=F0B482D9-C09F-2EAD-7C75DEC6E78E63BB&pc_id=F0B482D9-C09F-2EAD-7C75DEC6E78E63BB

    So you could buy either a printer, a burner, or both :)

    Google for reviews.

    Happy trails,
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