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Debate: Core 2 Duo Platform a paper launch?

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July 30, 2006 5:40:51 AM

This one is going to draw some serious flameage...

I'm going to be the first to say it: The Core 2 Duo platform is an elaborate paper launch. Maybe I'm jumping the gun a bit, but it's becoming very evident to most that the only Core 2 Duo to be had is the $1000+ Extreme version. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I haven't seen a single online retailer selling anything other than Extreme. I've seen pre-orders and "sold out" for the E6700, 6600, etc... but I know of no one who actually has one in hand or has had one shipped.

Couple no availability with the lack of decent affordable motherboards and I'd say we've got a paper launch here folks. Let's take a look at the motherboards that support Core 2 Duo.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E1681...
Available, but $270 bones. Waaaaaaaay to steep for this mobo. I think there's a bit of price gouging going on here...

http://www.anandtech.com/mb/showdoc.aspx?i=2797&p=4
Near as I can tell, this board does not exist. I challenge someone to find one that's in stock and for sale...

http://www.anandtech.com/mb/showdoc.aspx?i=2797&p=6
Same story, different mobo maker. This time Asus is the culprit. This board does not exist on Asus's website nor can I find it for sale anywhere.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E1681...
Can't find this one either...

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E1681...
Holy Taledo! $280?!?!

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E1681...
Slightly less... $250. Probably a C2D Extreme buyer's best option. DFI rocks.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E1681...
Much, much more affordable. But no dual PCI-16/8x.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E1681...
At $60, this is affordable. But the low price tag comes with a cost. Only 2 DIMM slots and the legendary crappy name of ASRock.

Keep in mind, there are no SLI or CrossFire certified boards out there. There's plans for some, but they can't be had yet. I'd get into the memory issue, but I'm too tired to start with that. Only a handful of high end memory makers make PC2 8000 or 8500 memory. And it's all very expensive. So you're going to pay an arm and a leg for a 1066mhz FSB.

This is baffling to me because Intel has been previewing C2D for well over 5 months now. And it ain't like the i975X chipset is anything revolutionary. So why does availability suck? We didn't see this issue with LGA775 or AM2... did we? And I'm a little surprised nVidia didn't have a new Intel based chipset ready to roll... i'm hearing a new chipset won't be intro'd for another few weeks at the earliest!

All that being said, I'm still planning on buying a C2D. But for someone with the will and cash in hand, it's simply not possible. That equates to paper launch in my book.

Thoughts?
July 30, 2006 5:53:25 AM

Quote:
This one is going to draw some serious flameage...

I'm going to be the first to say it: The Core 2 Duo platform is an elaborate paper launch. Maybe I'm jumping the gun a bit, but it's becoming very evident to most that the only Core 2 Duo to be had is the $1000+ Extreme version. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I haven't seen a single online retailer selling anything other than Extreme. I've seen pre-orders and "sold out" for the E6700, 6600, etc... but I know of no one who actually has one in hand or has had one shipped.

Couple no availability with the lack of decent affordable motherboards and I'd say we've got a paper launch here folks. Let's take a look at the motherboards that support Core 2 Duo.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E1681...
Available, but $270 bones. Waaaaaaaay to steep for this mobo. I think there's a bit of price gouging going on here...

http://www.anandtech.com/mb/showdoc.aspx?i=2797&p=4
Near as I can tell, this board does not exist. I challenge someone to find one that's in stock and for sale...

http://www.anandtech.com/mb/showdoc.aspx?i=2797&p=6
Same story, different mobo maker. This time Asus is the culprit. This board does not exist on Asus's website nor can I find it for sale anywhere.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E1681...
Can't find this one either...

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E1681...
Holy Taledo! $280?!?!

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E1681...
Slightly less... $250. Probably a C2D Extreme buyer's best option. DFI rocks.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E1681...
Much, much more affordable. But no dual PCI-16/8x.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E1681...
At $60, this is affordable. But the low price tag comes with a cost. Only 2 DIMM slots and the legendary crappy name of ASRock.

Keep in mind, there are no SLI or CrossFire certified boards out there. There's plans for some, but they can't be had yet. I'd get into the memory issue, but I'm too tired to start with that. Only a handful of high end memory makers make PC2 8000 or 8500 memory. And it's all very expensive. So you're going to pay an arm and a leg for a 1066mhz FSB.

This is baffling to me because Intel has been previewing C2D for well over 5 months now. And it ain't like the i975X chipset is anything revolutionary. So why does availability suck? We didn't see this issue with LGA775 or AM2... did we? And I'm a little surprised nVidia didn't have a new Intel based chipset ready to roll... i'm hearing a new chipset won't be intro'd for another few weeks at the earliest!

All that being said, I'm still planning on buying a C2D. But for someone with the will and cash in hand, it's simply not possible. That equates to paper launch in my book.

Thoughts?
I still say that even though it wasn't said publicly(that i know of) Intel did inform review sites about Aug 7th. It clearly states that Core2 Extreme's will be available as of the 27th, but Core2Duo won't be til Aug 7th or later.

http://forumz.tomshardware.com/hardware/Reality-check-C...

Quote:
Intel Core 2 Extreme processor based systems and boxed product are expected to be available on the day of launch, 27 July. Intel Core 2 Duo processor based systems and boxed product [through places such as Newegg] are expected to be available from 7 August.



Quote:
From what Intel is telling us, you shouldn't be able to so much as purchase Core 2 processors until after the first week in August, although you'll be able to get complete systems before then.
July 30, 2006 5:53:43 AM

WOW! This is just horribly written post. It is ONLY the SECOND day it has been out! That does not say ANYTHING about a paper launch! You never heard anything about the AM2s because they didn't have any great performance and there wasn't much media about it, therefor no one was waiting for it. AMD is KNOWN for paper launches, not Intel. AMD used to released processors and it would take a MONTH to get their newest CPU, especially the top end. And you also dont include OEMs. If full computers with C2D are readily available within the first week, then you can not call it a paper launch.

The idea that this is a paper launch because you can't get a Conroe in the channel within 2 days of the launch is absurd!
Related resources
July 30, 2006 5:56:16 AM

Whether this qualifies it as a paper-launch, i don't know. I don't think it can be called that for sure, until Aug. 7th. :?
July 30, 2006 6:13:59 AM

I know i will call it a paper launch if i dont get my X6800 by the end of the 3rd week of August :) 
July 30, 2006 6:18:25 AM

Quote:
I know i will call it a paper launch if i dont get my X6800 by the end of the 3rd week of August :) 
I wouldn't be able to sleep at night if i had (the system you have on order) ordered.. I'd be like a kid on X-Mas morning :p 
July 30, 2006 6:20:34 AM

Quote:
I know i will call it a paper launch if i dont get my X6800 by the end of the 3rd week of August :) 


This is reasonable, if we do not see healthy availability 2-3 weeks after then we can say retrospect paper launch.

2-3 weeks into august would DEFINITELY be a paper launch if you can not buy a system. But if people are buying systems like crazy, it may be hard to get a boxed CPU if you dont pre-order it. They might be selling faster than places are receiving them.
July 30, 2006 6:33:01 AM

Quote:
On a different note --- I am not sure if many people are aware, but there is a 'packaging' substrate supply issue industry wide


I'm aware of but whats the reason for the supply issues?
July 30, 2006 6:34:27 AM

Quote:
I know i will call it a paper launch if i dont get my X6800 by the end of the 3rd week of August :) 


This is reasonable, if we do not see healthy availability 2-3 weeks after then we can say retrospect paper launch.

2-3 weeks into august would DEFINITELY be a paper launch if you can not buy a system. But if people are buying systems like crazy, it may be hard to get a boxed CPU if you dont pre-order it. They might be selling faster than places are receiving them.

On the same page --- it could just be high demand. I am searching for MBs, had my eye on the Asus P5W DH but none to be found with a few searches --- all back ordered.

On a different note --- I am not sure if many people are aware, but there is a 'packaging' substrate supply issue industry wide, ATI cited this as a reason for availability problems a quarter or two ago, other manufacturers are complaining of the same thing. So I am not sure the bottle neck is not enough chips have been fabbed or if they are simply waiting in line to be packaged.

For those who do not know, the manufacture of the CPU die is roughly 70% of the total process. The other 30% is packaging in which the die is cast into ceramic moldes, fitted with the heat spreader and wired to the pins (flip chip design). It is the ceramic material from the news that is in short supply. This would also explain the trickle out of AM2 processors initially....

JackInteresting. :wink: Do you know the reason for the supply shortage? Is it a material shortage, just unable to keep up with demand, labour problems(example-strike/plant closing)?
July 30, 2006 6:57:47 AM

This is such a dumb thread. A paper launch is when something is released but it isn't in fact available. I have seen the Conroe in stock at a number of places - even as far away as Australia, and a number of people have confirmed that orders have been shipped.

Sure, demand exceeds supply for many of the chips at present, but there is ample evidence showing that this isn't a paper launch.
July 30, 2006 7:02:35 AM

Quote:
This one is going to draw some serious flameage...

I'm going to be the first to say it: The Core 2 Duo platform is an elaborate paper launch. Maybe I'm jumping the gun a bit, but it's becoming very evident to most that the only Core 2 Duo to be had is the $1000+ Extreme version. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I haven't seen a single online retailer selling anything other than Extreme. I've seen pre-orders and "sold out" for the E6700, 6600, etc... but I know of no one who actually has one in hand or has had one shipped.

Couple no availability with the lack of decent affordable motherboards and I'd say we've got a paper launch here folks. Let's take a look at the motherboards that support Core 2 Duo.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E1681...
Available, but $270 bones. Waaaaaaaay to steep for this mobo. I think there's a bit of price gouging going on here...

http://www.anandtech.com/mb/showdoc.aspx?i=2797&p=4
Near as I can tell, this board does not exist. I challenge someone to find one that's in stock and for sale...

http://www.anandtech.com/mb/showdoc.aspx?i=2797&p=6
Same story, different mobo maker. This time Asus is the culprit. This board does not exist on Asus's website nor can I find it for sale anywhere.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E1681...
Can't find this one either...

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E1681...
Holy Taledo! $280?!?!

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E1681...
Slightly less... $250. Probably a C2D Extreme buyer's best option. DFI rocks.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E1681...
Much, much more affordable. But no dual PCI-16/8x.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E1681...
At $60, this is affordable. But the low price tag comes with a cost. Only 2 DIMM slots and the legendary crappy name of ASRock.

Keep in mind, there are no SLI or CrossFire certified boards out there. There's plans for some, but they can't be had yet. I'd get into the memory issue, but I'm too tired to start with that. Only a handful of high end memory makers make PC2 8000 or 8500 memory. And it's all very expensive. So you're going to pay an arm and a leg for a 1066mhz FSB.

This is baffling to me because Intel has been previewing C2D for well over 5 months now. And it ain't like the i975X chipset is anything revolutionary. So why does availability suck? We didn't see this issue with LGA775 or AM2... did we? And I'm a little surprised nVidia didn't have a new Intel based chipset ready to roll... i'm hearing a new chipset won't be intro'd for another few weeks at the earliest!

All that being said, I'm still planning on buying a C2D. But for someone with the will and cash in hand, it's simply not possible. That equates to paper launch in my book.

Thoughts?



Jesse,


Please do not take this as an attack. It is not. I ordered a E6600 thursday. It shipped Friday. UPS ETA is this coming Friday. I used the 7-9 day ground shipping. I cant really speculate one way or the other as, for me, it has in fact not been a paper launch.

Peace :) 
July 30, 2006 7:28:57 AM

Quote:
I'm going to be the first to say it: The Core 2 Duo platform is an elaborate paper launch. Maybe I'm jumping the gun a bit, but it's becoming very evident to most that the only Core 2 Duo to be had is the $1000+ Extreme version. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I haven't seen a single online retailer selling anything other than Extreme. I've seen pre-orders and "sold out" for the E6700, 6600, etc... but I know of no one who actually has one in hand or has had one shipped.


Check this out, it is the extreme edition is in back order but not the low end E6300:
http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/Special/Intel-landing-072706.jsp?intpromo=Intel_Core_2_072706_HPG


Quote:
http://www.anandtech.com/mb/showdoc.aspx?i=2797&p=4
Near as I can tell, this board does not exist. I challenge someone to find one that's in stock and for sale...


I can pick up a dozen of these boards at my local retail Fry's, of course they wanted an arm and leg for it ( $279+tax).



oddly enough, your provided link shows that it is on sale and instock.
July 30, 2006 7:34:48 AM

Quote:
Only a handful of high end memory makers make PC2 8000 or 8500 memory. And it's all very expensive. So you're going to pay an arm and a leg for a 1066mhz FSB.


1066 is quad pump of 266, so you only need ddr2 that runs at 266 mhz ( 533 or PC2 4200) to run in sync.
July 30, 2006 7:46:16 AM

Quote:
Only a handful of high end memory makers make PC2 8000 or 8500 memory. And it's all very expensive. So you're going to pay an arm and a leg for a 1066mhz FSB.


1066 is quad pump of 266, so you only need ddr2 that runs at 266 mhz ( 533 or PC2 4200) to run in sync. :lol:  mpjesse should be a fortune teller. :wink:

Quote:
This one is going to draw some serious flameage...
July 30, 2006 7:46:59 AM

Quote:
This one is going to draw some serious flameage...


No flames but since you asked for corrections, here they are.

Quote:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E1681...
Available, but $270 bones. Waaaaaaaay to steep for this mobo. I think there's a bit of price gouging going on here...


Motherboards with similar features sell in that price range. There may be price gouging, that I wouldn't know but, it is *available*.

Quote:

http://www.anandtech.com/mb/showdoc.aspx?i=2797&p=4
Near as I can tell, this board does not exist. I challenge someone to find one that's in stock and for sale......


As of Sunday morning, the following vendors show it as in stock, ready to sell and ship.

Buy.com http://www.buy.com/retail/product.asp?sku=202127488&Sea...

TigerDirect http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/searchtools/ite...

Another 3 vendors from Amazon marketplace show it in stock and ready to ship, here is the page,

Amazon Marketplace http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B000E85NWI/ref=d...


Quote:
http://www.anandtech.com/mb/showdoc.aspx?i=2797&p=6 Same story, different mobo maker. This time Asus is the culprit. This board does not exist on Asus's website nor can I find it for sale anywhere.


Newegg shows it in stock http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E1681...

TigerDirect shows it in stock http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/searchtools/ite...

An additional three retailers here shows it in stock, http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B000BUI8CQ/ref=d...



hmmmm... well... it is available at the link you provided. Look again! :wink:

That should take care of the motherboard availability issue. As far as the Conroe availability issue, others have already answered that eloquently so, no need to beat that dead horse.

As other pointed out, it's a brand new product (barely two days out and only one of those is a business day), I think your eagerness to buy one is affecting your otherwise good judgement. :D 

Hope that helps, LOL.
July 30, 2006 8:32:10 AM

Quote:
I'm going to be the first to say it: The Core 2 Duo platform is an elaborate paper launch. Maybe I'm jumping the gun a bit, but it's becoming very evident to most that the only Core 2 Duo to be had is the $1000+ Extreme version. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I haven't seen a single online retailer selling anything other than Extreme. I've seen pre-orders and "sold out" for the E6700, 6600, etc... but I know of no one who actually has one in hand or has had one shipped.



I metioned this one day one and before and Iwas cursed for being anti-Intel. just tried to make the point that weeks before the launch I saw 7 mobos at Newegg at an average cost of $200.

In my mind that didn't bode well for availability. That is probably why sys builders have such long wait periods for systems. There are I believe 37 AM2 mobos at Newegg. I really couldn't understand why there were'nt more since Core 2 is such a great chip.The way it look snow retail 6600/6700 won't come around until the end of August or September because of the ratio to non-Core 2 chips being produced.
July 30, 2006 8:38:52 AM

Quote:
WOW! This is just horribly written post. It is ONLY the SECOND day it has been out! That does not say ANYTHING about a paper launch! You never heard anything about the AM2s because they didn't have any great performance and there wasn't much media about it, therefor no one was waiting for it. AMD is KNOWN for paper launches, not Intel. AMD used to released processors and it would take a MONTH to get their newest CPU, especially the top end. And you also dont include OEMs. If full computers with C2D are readily available within the first week, then you can not call it a paper launch.

The idea that this is a paper launch because you can't get a Conroe in the channel within 2 days of the launch is absurd!



Why can't people who support AMD be this protective and supportive?
July 30, 2006 8:47:20 AM

Quote:
WOW! This is just horribly written post. It is ONLY the SECOND day it has been out! That does not say ANYTHING about a paper launch! You never heard anything about the AM2s because they didn't have any great performance and there wasn't much media about it, therefor no one was waiting for it. AMD is KNOWN for paper launches, not Intel. AMD used to released processors and it would take a MONTH to get their newest CPU, especially the top end. And you also dont include OEMs. If full computers with C2D are readily available within the first week, then you can not call it a paper launch.

The idea that this is a paper launch because you can't get a Conroe in the channel within 2 days of the launch is absurd!



Why can't people who support AMD be this protective and supportive?Is it about being protective and supportive, or about having a double-standard?
July 30, 2006 8:52:39 AM

The impression given on these forums is that the majority of Intel fanboys (not all but most) write in sentences and can at least be bothered to look up references to back up their statements.

The most vocal AMD supporters have no trouble with outright lies and misinterpretation that looks not unlike the sort of fanaticism one normally associates with people who blow other people up.

You can therefore work out for yourself why 'AMD people' get a hard time.

Its mostly because of people like you.

People like you can't tell the difference between 'support' for technology and going to war.

You and the other people here like you actually make me embarrassed to own an AMD CPU.

Luckily I make my CPU choices based on performance (and helpful links provided by people who know things and who don't just have some stupid agenda) not on the fanboys associated with a particular product.
July 30, 2006 9:27:13 AM

Quote:
The impression given on these forums is that the majority of Intel fanboys (not all but most) write in sentences and can at least be bothered to look up references to back up their statements.

The most vocal AMD supporters have no trouble with outright lies and misinterpretation that looks not unlike the sort of fanaticism one normally associates with people who blow other people up.

You can therefore work out for yourself why 'AMD people' get a hard time.

Its mostly because of people like you.

People like you can't tell the difference between 'support' for technology and going to war.

You and the other people here like you actually make me embarrassed to own an AMD CPU.

Luckily I make my CPU choices based on performance (and helpful links provided by people who know things and who don't just have some stupid agenda) not on the fanboys associated with a particular product.



Good luck getting one. AMD people have outside lives and don't care THAT much. People don't like me because they are some kind of CPU zombies.

I'm about to make a new AMD/ATi post so you can hate me some more.
July 30, 2006 9:48:40 AM

This thread needs some lockage.

The E6300 and the X6800 have shipped, with confirmation. The memory issue raised is completely incorrect, as someone already pointed out. Plus, there are $50 motherboards out there that support core 2 if you don't wanna dish out 2 c notes.
July 30, 2006 10:18:44 AM

Quote:

On a different note --- I am not sure if many people are aware, but there is a 'packaging' substrate supply issue industry wide, ATI cited this as a reason for availability problems a quarter or two ago, other manufacturers are complaining of the same thing. So I am not sure the bottle neck is not enough chips have been fabbed or if they are simply waiting in line to be packaged.


Actually this is VERY true! There has been issues with substrates. And what is the best way to minimize the impact? Increase yields. If you have better yields, then you will throw away less packages. How can this be done without having an impact on quality? Simple: kill as many units as possible before they are packaged. This way you only package the units that are "expected" to yield the best once packaged. You may still be substrate constrained, but you are no longer wasting substrated on parts that do not have high yield.
July 30, 2006 10:24:36 AM

Quote:

On a different note --- I am not sure if many people are aware, but there is a 'packaging' substrate supply issue industry wide, ATI cited this as a reason for availability problems a quarter or two ago, other manufacturers are complaining of the same thing. So I am not sure the bottle neck is not enough chips have been fabbed or if they are simply waiting in line to be packaged.


Actually this is VERY true! There has been issues with substrates. And what is the best way to minimize the impact? Increase yields. If you have better yields, then you will throw away less packages. How can this be done without having an impact on quality? Simple: kill as many units as possible before they are packaged. This way you only package the units that are "expected" to yield the best once packaged. You may still be substrate constrained, but you are no longer wasting substrated on parts that do not have high yield.So, do Intel and AMD make their own substrates, or do other companies manufacture them? What i'm getting at is, if there's a shortage....do Intel/AMD have to fight over who gets the stock? :?
July 30, 2006 10:26:55 AM

Quote:
I metioned this one day one and before and Iwas cursed for being anti-Intel. just tried to make the point that weeks before the launch I saw 7 mobos at Newegg at an average cost of $200.


$180 BaronBS.
July 30, 2006 10:29:36 AM

Quote:

On a different note --- I am not sure if many people are aware, but there is a 'packaging' substrate supply issue industry wide, ATI cited this as a reason for availability problems a quarter or two ago, other manufacturers are complaining of the same thing. So I am not sure the bottle neck is not enough chips have been fabbed or if they are simply waiting in line to be packaged.


Actually this is VERY true! There has been issues with substrates. And what is the best way to minimize the impact? Increase yields. If you have better yields, then you will throw away less packages. How can this be done without having an impact on quality? Simple: kill as many units as possible before they are packaged. This way you only package the units that are "expected" to yield the best once packaged. You may still be substrate constrained, but you are no longer wasting substrated on parts that do not have high yield.So, do Intel and AMD make their own substrates, or do other companies manufacture them? What i'm getting at is, if there's a shortage....do Intel/AMD have to fight over who gets the stock? :?

Other companies make the substrates. I am not sure if AMD and Intel have to fight over them or if they use the same companies, but they do not make their own substrates. And if they do use the same company, i am not sure if they have to fight over them considering AMD does not have nearly as much capacity as Intel does.
July 30, 2006 10:31:10 AM

Quote:
I metioned this one day one and before and Iwas cursed for being anti-Intel. just tried to make the point that weeks before the launch I saw 7 mobos at Newegg at an average cost of $200.


$180 BaronBS.

I guess he didn't read the other threads that followed, except for mine. And he still didn't explain why this is a paper launch, yet AMD's past launches weren't paper launches, which i brought up in the post that he responded too.
July 30, 2006 10:33:14 AM

Quote:
This thread needs some lockage.

The E6300 and the X6800 have shipped, with confirmation. The memory issue raised is completely incorrect, as someone already pointed out. Plus, there are $50 motherboards out there that support core 2 if you don't wanna dish out 2 c notes.


Yup, 2 out of 5 processors were available at launch, and were shipped to customers here in the UK. We could be waiting anywhere between 1-4 weeks for the rest to be available in high enough quantities so that those who have not pre-ordered can get one.

Let's crucify Intel for not waiting to release Conroe until everyone who wants one can get them on the day of release. By the same standards, the CEO's of Sony and MS should be executed on the spot for console availability at launch. Either that, or we could drink some herbal tea and not get too worked up about the inevitable.
July 30, 2006 10:42:25 AM

Quote:
This one is going to draw some serious flameage...

I'm going to be the first to say it: The Core 2 Duo platform is an elaborate paper launch. Maybe I'm jumping the gun a bit, but it's becoming very evident to most that the only Core 2 Duo to be had is the $1000+ Extreme version. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I haven't seen a single online retailer selling anything other than Extreme. I've seen pre-orders and "sold out" for the E6700, 6600, etc... but I know of no one who actually has one in hand or has had one shipped.

Couple no availability with the lack of decent affordable motherboards and I'd say we've got a paper launch here folks. Let's take a look at the motherboards that support Core 2 Duo.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E1681...
Available, but $270 bones. Waaaaaaaay to steep for this mobo. I think there's a bit of price gouging going on here...

http://www.anandtech.com/mb/showdoc.aspx?i=2797&p=4
Near as I can tell, this board does not exist. I challenge someone to find one that's in stock and for sale...

http://www.anandtech.com/mb/showdoc.aspx?i=2797&p=6
Same story, different mobo maker. This time Asus is the culprit. This board does not exist on Asus's website nor can I find it for sale anywhere.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E1681...
Can't find this one either...

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E1681...
Holy Taledo! $280?!?!

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E1681...
Slightly less... $250. Probably a C2D Extreme buyer's best option. DFI rocks.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E1681...
Much, much more affordable. But no dual PCI-16/8x.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E1681...
At $60, this is affordable. But the low price tag comes with a cost. Only 2 DIMM slots and the legendary crappy name of ASRock.

Keep in mind, there are no SLI or CrossFire certified boards out there. There's plans for some, but they can't be had yet. I'd get into the memory issue, but I'm too tired to start with that. Only a handful of high end memory makers make PC2 8000 or 8500 memory. And it's all very expensive. So you're going to pay an arm and a leg for a 1066mhz FSB.

This is baffling to me because Intel has been previewing C2D for well over 5 months now. And it ain't like the i975X chipset is anything revolutionary. So why does availability suck? We didn't see this issue with LGA775 or AM2... did we? And I'm a little surprised nVidia didn't have a new Intel based chipset ready to roll... i'm hearing a new chipset won't be intro'd for another few weeks at the earliest!

All that being said, I'm still planning on buying a C2D. But for someone with the will and cash in hand, it's simply not possible. That equates to paper launch in my book.

Thoughts?


i ordered my E6700 from TD on thursday, and it was shipped Friday morning, i have my tracking number, and as we speak it is on its way here.

CP2-DUO-E6700 Intel Core2 Duo E6700 2.67Ghz Socket 775 Status: Shipped
Method: UPS GROUND
Date Shipped: 07/27/06
Tracking #:

HODGKINS, IL, US 07/28/2006 7:37 A.M. DEPARTURE SCAN
July 30, 2006 11:15:05 AM

Quote:
In my mind that didn't bode well for availability. That is probably why sys builders have such long wait periods for systems. There are I believe 37 AM2 mobos at Newegg. I really couldn't understand why there were'nt more since Core 2 is such a great chip.The way it look snow retail 6600/6700 won't come around until the end of August or September because of the ratio to non-Core 2 chips being produced.

You can add a few more motherboards to your list, but don't use Newegg's database because they only recently added the C2D field and it is not up to date. You need to search by north bridge or the corresponding south bridge. Asus alone is selling 15 mobos (as I read last night in here). Many are available at Newegg but not been properly categorized. One is already in use as I type this (yeah, I just found out I don't need a new mobo). You're obviously not looking hard enough, Baron, probably because you have zero intention of buying one. You are anti-Intel, you have said so numerous times, because of its alleged monopolistic practices. Yet you feel no compunction whatsoever about using Microsoft products, even though their monopolistic practices have been confirmed by the courts in the US and EU and have driven more small companies to bankruptcy than Intel.
July 30, 2006 12:42:05 PM

Quote:
WOW! This is just horribly written post. It is ONLY the SECOND day it has been out! That does not say ANYTHING about a paper launch! You never heard anything about the AM2s because they didn't have any great performance and there wasn't much media about it, therefor no one was waiting for it. AMD is KNOWN for paper launches, not Intel. AMD used to released processors and it would take a MONTH to get their newest CPU, especially the top end. And you also dont include OEMs. If full computers with C2D are readily available within the first week, then you can not call it a paper launch.

The idea that this is a paper launch because you can't get a Conroe in the channel within 2 days of the launch is absurd!


I already stated i might be jumping the gun. So I'm acknowledging that I could be wrong. As for AMD being known to do paper launches... umm... apparently you forgot the 1 Ghz fiasco. Intel was the first to "announce" a 1Ghz P3, but AMD actually ended up being the first to sell a 1Ghz Athlon. Intel sure paper launched that one...

As for C2D systems being available... umm... riiight. In my book, if I can't buy a product from newegg, pricewatch, etc the day it launches, it's a bit of a paper launch. Being sold out is one thing, not having it period is another. And it appears to me that the online retailers don't have them period. (Except of course the C2D Extreme, which was sold out the minute they went up)
July 30, 2006 12:44:51 PM

Quote:
This is such a dumb thread. A paper launch is when something is released but it isn't in fact available. I have seen the Conroe in stock at a number of places - even as far away as Australia, and a number of people have confirmed that orders have been shipped.

Sure, demand exceeds supply for many of the chips at present, but there is ample evidence showing that this isn't a paper launch.


Please back this statement up with some proof or links.

Really, I'm not trying to be a jerk, but everyone's response is "ppl in forums are getting their C2D's."

That's hardly proof. One can say anything on a forum. What I want to see is an online retailer like newegg actually SELLING in stock C2D's. Not anecdotal evidence or eBay links.
July 30, 2006 12:47:05 PM

Quote:
I'm going to be the first to say it: The Core 2 Duo platform is an elaborate paper launch. Maybe I'm jumping the gun a bit, but it's becoming very evident to most that the only Core 2 Duo to be had is the $1000+ Extreme version. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I haven't seen a single online retailer selling anything other than Extreme. I've seen pre-orders and "sold out" for the E6700, 6600, etc... but I know of no one who actually has one in hand or has had one shipped.


Check this out, it is the extreme edition is in back order but not the low end E6300:
http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/Special/Intel-landing-072706.jsp?intpromo=Intel_Core_2_072706_HPG


Quote:
http://www.anandtech.com/mb/showdoc.aspx?i=2797&p=4
Near as I can tell, this board does not exist. I challenge someone to find one that's in stock and for sale...


I can pick up a dozen of these boards at my local retail Fry's, of course they wanted an arm and leg for it ( $279+tax).



oddly enough, your provided link shows that it is on sale and instock.

OK.. i acknowledge availability for 1 core processor. Good find.

I messed up on that link... I meant to link a Biostar mobo that I can't find.
July 30, 2006 12:49:25 PM

Quote:


I already stated i might be jumping the gun. So I'm acknowledging that I could be wrong. As for AMD being known to do paper launches... umm... apparently you forgot the 1 Ghz fiasco. Intel was the first to "announce" a 1Ghz P3, but AMD actually ended up being the first to sell a 1Ghz Athlon. Intel sure paper launched that one...


Ummm.... if i remember the 1GHz fiasco corretly, Intel already had 1GHz parts before AMD did, but Intel was ramping and trying to get an inventory and because of that, they had planned to announce it at a certain date when they would have enough inventory. In this time AMD actually launched 1GHz before Intel did, but you couldn't get any 1GHz AMDs, and once the Intel part launched, they were actually available soon after.

Maybe someone can correct me if i am wrong, but this is the way i remember it.
July 30, 2006 12:49:46 PM

Quote:
This one is going to draw some serious flameage...


No flames but since you asked for corrections, here they are.

Quote:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E1681...
Available, but $270 bones. Waaaaaaaay to steep for this mobo. I think there's a bit of price gouging going on here...


Motherboards with similar features sell in that price range. There may be price gouging, that I wouldn't know but, it is *available*.

Quote:

http://www.anandtech.com/mb/showdoc.aspx?i=2797&p=4
Near as I can tell, this board does not exist. I challenge someone to find one that's in stock and for sale......


As of Sunday morning, the following vendors show it as in stock, ready to sell and ship.

Buy.com http://www.buy.com/retail/product.asp?sku=202127488&Sea...

TigerDirect http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/searchtools/ite...

Another 3 vendors from Amazon marketplace show it in stock and ready to ship, here is the page,

Amazon Marketplace http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B000E85NWI/ref=d...


Quote:
http://www.anandtech.com/mb/showdoc.aspx?i=2797&p=6 Same story, different mobo maker. This time Asus is the culprit. This board does not exist on Asus's website nor can I find it for sale anywhere.


Newegg shows it in stock http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E1681...

TigerDirect shows it in stock http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/searchtools/ite...

An additional three retailers here shows it in stock, http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B000BUI8CQ/ref=d...



hmmmm... well... it is available at the link you provided. Look again! :wink:

That should take care of the motherboard availability issue. As far as the Conroe availability issue, others have already answered that eloquently so, no need to beat that dead horse.

As other pointed out, it's a brand new product (barely two days out and only one of those is a business day), I think your eagerness to buy one is affecting your otherwise good judgement. :D 

Hope that helps, LOL.

Good finds on most of those links. I appreciate it. The Asus mobo however does not support Core 2 Duo. You're confusing the one on newegg with the SE version anandtech reviewed.

And yeah, i screwed up on that last link. It was supposed to be a link to a biostar mobo.

My bad. ;-)
July 30, 2006 12:51:09 PM

Quote:
Only a handful of high end memory makers make PC2 8000 or 8500 memory. And it's all very expensive. So you're going to pay an arm and a leg for a 1066mhz FSB.


1066 is quad pump of 266, so you only need ddr2 that runs at 266 mhz ( 533 or PC2 4200) to run in sync.

My error. Thanks for clearing that up. ;-)
July 30, 2006 12:52:30 PM

Quote:
This thread needs some lockage.

The E6300 and the X6800 have shipped, with confirmation. The memory issue raised is completely incorrect, as someone already pointed out. Plus, there are $50 motherboards out there that support core 2 if you don't wanna dish out 2 c notes.


I linked the $50 mobo. But let's get real, it's a POS.

And yep, I'm wrong on the memory. My bad.

And yep, the E6300 and x6800 have shipped, but what about the others? Furthermore, the x6800 is sold out everywhere.
July 30, 2006 12:54:18 PM

Well right on. I still can't find a cursed C2D for sale anywhere (with the exception of the E6300 on TD).

Ur lucky. ;-)
July 30, 2006 1:26:01 PM

Quote:
http://www.anandtech.com/mb/showdoc.aspx?i=2797&p=4
Near as I can tell, this board does not exist. I challenge someone to find one that's in stock and for sale...


I had no problems buying a Revision 304 C2D compatible version of that mobo off newegg 9 days ago. They are very popular and almost always out of stock. It works great with my D930 whilest waiting for the E6600 to get in stock and price stabilize.
July 30, 2006 1:39:37 PM

Quote:
The impression given on these forums is that the majority of Intel fanboys (not all but most) write in sentences and can at least be bothered to look up references to back up their statements.

The most vocal AMD supporters have no trouble with outright lies and misinterpretation that looks not unlike the sort of fanaticism one normally associates with people who blow other people up.

You can therefore work out for yourself why 'AMD people' get a hard time.

Its mostly because of people like you.

People like you can't tell the difference between 'support' for technology and going to war.

You and the other people here like you actually make me embarrassed to own an AMD CPU.

Luckily I make my CPU choices based on performance (and helpful links provided by people who know things and who don't just have some stupid agenda) not on the fanboys associated with a particular product.



Good luck getting one. AMD people have outside lives and don't care THAT much. People don't like me because they are some kind of CPU zombies.

I'm about to make a new AMD/ATi post so you can hate me some more.

This coming from a fanboi who eagerly awaits availability of X2-5000 stating no one needs more power than that while salivating for the moment you can upgrade to the power of 4x4 knowing it will still lag the performance of intels quad core... :roll: :roll:
July 30, 2006 2:15:09 PM

Quote:
On a different note --- I am not sure if many people are aware, but there is a 'packaging' substrate supply issue industry wide


I'm aware of but whats the reason for the supply issues?

I recently worked on one such project where there was a viscosity issue with one of the thermal set adhesives. I doubt that is related to the supply issue specifically, but we met with some of the substrate guys and one of them mentioned that their specs had been sequentially tightened over the last few years as a result of their own problem solving research and now they have trouble reliably finding materials that meet spec. So I was told that the industry is in flux trying to supply adequate meterials to meet the more stringent specs.
July 30, 2006 2:58:34 PM

Quote:
I know i will call it a paper launch if i dont get my X6800 by the end of the 3rd week of August :) 


This is reasonable, if we do not see healthy availability 2-3 weeks after then we can say retrospect paper launch.

I'm kind of worried about the woodcrest processors that came out when was it? More than a month ago? How many Boxed woodcrest Xeons do you see on retailers sites? I've seen some OEM, but i don't count those.
I hope the same will not hold true with the Conroe launch, we might see a trickle of CPU's over the next 7 weeks, meaning 20,000 to feed the world LOL
July 30, 2006 3:00:03 PM

Quote:
I know i will call it a paper launch if i dont get my X6800 by the end of the 3rd week of August :) 
I wouldn't be able to sleep at night if i had (the system you have on order) ordered.. I'd be like a kid on X-Mas morning :p 

I'm worried my current computer will die on me, every morning i boot it and pray it does not.

But yes, i do feel like a kid at christmas, the only 2 things i have to wait for is the X6800 and XFX 7950, (plus stupid Bios chip from ASUS).
July 30, 2006 3:29:53 PM

OMG PAPER LAUNCH THIS MEANS I'LL HAVE TO WAIT ANOTHER 2 WEEKS FOR MY CONROE!!11 :wink:
July 30, 2006 3:41:34 PM

no DDR2 533 is 533mhz not 266 ... ???

you only need DDR2 533mhz which is 1066mhz double pumped ...

DDR2 is not QDR ... its DDR

i don't understand why you guys don't get this at all?

Quote:
Only a handful of high end memory makers make PC2 8000 or 8500 memory. And it's all very expensive. So you're going to pay an arm and a leg for a 1066mhz FSB.


1066 is quad pump of 266, so you only need ddr2 that runs at 266 mhz ( 533 or PC2 4200) to run in sync.
July 30, 2006 3:43:04 PM

Newegg has had woodcrest for sale for weeks now. GO and look it up.

Quote:
I know i will call it a paper launch if i dont get my X6800 by the end of the 3rd week of August :) 


This is reasonable, if we do not see healthy availability 2-3 weeks after then we can say retrospect paper launch.

I'm kind of worried about the woodcrest processors that came out when was it? More than a month ago? How many Boxed woodcrest Xeons do you see on retailers sites? I've seen some OEM, but i don't count those.
I hope the same will not hold true with the Conroe launch, we might see a trickle of CPU's over the next 7 weeks, meaning 20,000 to feed the world LOL
July 30, 2006 3:44:02 PM

Quote:
This one is going to draw some serious flameage...

I'm going to be the first to say it: The Core 2 Duo platform is an elaborate paper launch. Maybe I'm jumping the gun a bit, but it's becoming very evident to most that the only Core 2 Duo to be had is the $1000+ Extreme version. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I haven't seen a single online retailer selling anything other than Extreme. I've seen pre-orders and "sold out" for the E6700, 6600, etc... but I know of no one who actually has one in hand or has had one shipped.

Couple no availability with the lack of decent affordable motherboards and I'd say we've got a paper launch here folks. Let's take a look at the motherboards that support Core 2 Duo.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E1681...
Available, but $270 bones. Waaaaaaaay to steep for this mobo. I think there's a bit of price gouging going on here...

http://www.anandtech.com/mb/showdoc.aspx?i=2797&p=4
Near as I can tell, this board does not exist. I challenge someone to find one that's in stock and for sale...

http://www.anandtech.com/mb/showdoc.aspx?i=2797&p=6
Same story, different mobo maker. This time Asus is the culprit. This board does not exist on Asus's website nor can I find it for sale anywhere.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E1681...
Can't find this one either...

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E1681...
Holy Taledo! $280?!?!

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E1681...
Slightly less... $250. Probably a C2D Extreme buyer's best option. DFI rocks.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E1681...
Much, much more affordable. But no dual PCI-16/8x.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E1681...
At $60, this is affordable. But the low price tag comes with a cost. Only 2 DIMM slots and the legendary crappy name of ASRock.

Keep in mind, there are no SLI or CrossFire certified boards out there. There's plans for some, but they can't be had yet. I'd get into the memory issue, but I'm too tired to start with that. Only a handful of high end memory makers make PC2 8000 or 8500 memory. And it's all very expensive. So you're going to pay an arm and a leg for a 1066mhz FSB.

This is baffling to me because Intel has been previewing C2D for well over 5 months now. And it ain't like the i975X chipset is anything revolutionary. So why does availability suck? We didn't see this issue with LGA775 or AM2... did we? And I'm a little surprised nVidia didn't have a new Intel based chipset ready to roll... i'm hearing a new chipset won't be intro'd for another few weeks at the earliest!

All that being said, I'm still planning on buying a C2D. But for someone with the will and cash in hand, it's simply not possible. That equates to paper launch in my book.

Thoughts?


I have no problem with this post, even though I agree with everybody,
you are really jumping the gun.

But, the real reason why I don't have a problem with it, because
you have a real interest in getting the chip, and you're hear to discuss
the matter.

On the otherhand, If 9inch posted it, it would be for the purpose of
negativity, and to start a flamewar. No discussion from him, just
throw gasoline on a fire and crawl away.

Even, the Baron, though I don't agree with him most of the time.
Doesn't post and ignore. He does come into the discussion. You might
disagree with everything he says, but he's not a coward like 9-inch.
Though I suspect 9-inch doesn't have the intelligence to discuss.
July 30, 2006 3:46:22 PM

Quote:
Newegg has had woodcrest for sale for weeks now. GO and look it up.

I know i will call it a paper launch if i dont get my X6800 by the end of the 3rd week of August :) 


This is reasonable, if we do not see healthy availability 2-3 weeks after then we can say retrospect paper launch.

I'm kind of worried about the woodcrest processors that came out when was it? More than a month ago? How many Boxed woodcrest Xeons do you see on retailers sites? I've seen some OEM, but i don't count those.
I hope the same will not hold true with the Conroe launch, we might see a trickle of CPU's over the next 7 weeks, meaning 20,000 to feed the world LOL

Sure OEM processors, which i don't count. How many boxed ones do they have? I think only 1.
July 30, 2006 3:48:56 PM

Quote:

Couple no availability with the lack of decent affordable motherboards and I'd say we've got a paper launch here folks. Let's take a look at the motherboards that support Core 2 Duo.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E1681...
Available, but $270 bones. Waaaaaaaay to steep for this mobo. I think there's a bit of price gouging going on here...

http://www.anandtech.com/mb/showdoc.aspx?i=2797&p=4
Near as I can tell, this board does not exist. I challenge someone to find one that's in stock and for sale...

http://www.anandtech.com/mb/showdoc.aspx?i=2797&p=6
Same story, different mobo maker. This time Asus is the culprit. This board does not exist on Asus's website nor can I find it for sale anywhere.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E1681...
Can't find this one either...

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E1681...
Holy Taledo! $280?!?!

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E1681...
Slightly less... $250. Probably a C2D Extreme buyer's best option. DFI rocks.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E1681...
Much, much more affordable. But no dual PCI-16/8x.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E1681...
At $60, this is affordable. But the low price tag comes with a cost. Only 2 DIMM slots and the legendary crappy name of ASRock.


mpjesse,

Price gouging is a meaningless term as you use it.
You seem to want to convey the emotion that someone is doing something wrong by charging a price for an item that you don't like. However, your post supplies eveidence of the scarcity of the items that you are useing as evidence of price gouging. In fact you have provided a classic example of capitalism at work.
Capitalism is the most efficient system to provide items to the market. Capitalism does this via the law of Supply and Demand. You have noted that the supply is low compared to demand, yet seem to fail to understand that the resultant price will rise according to demand for those scarce items. If the price was artificially controlled and kept artificially low the scarcity of the items sought would be greater.
July 30, 2006 3:56:29 PM

they've had a lot more than that. newegg removes the sites when they go out of stock.

They've had a lot more than 1 in stock and ready for sale for weeks now. I know because for the past 2-3 weeks i've been going to newegg looking up parts to buy and checking out the cpu;s as well for the fun of it.

so, you're saying because there is ONE retail processor on neweggs site currently that that defines a paper launch?
July 30, 2006 4:20:57 PM

Quote:
In my mind that didn't bode well for availability. That is probably why sys builders have such long wait periods for systems. There are I believe 37 AM2 mobos at Newegg. I really couldn't understand why there were'nt more since Core 2 is such a great chip.The way it look snow retail 6600/6700 won't come around until the end of August or September because of the ratio to non-Core 2 chips being produced.

You can add a few more motherboards to your list, but don't use Newegg's database because they only recently added the C2D field and it is not up to date. You need to search by north bridge or the corresponding south bridge. Asus alone is selling 15 mobos (as I read last night in here). Many are available at Newegg but not been properly categorized. One is already in use as I type this (yeah, I just found out I don't need a new mobo). You're obviously not looking hard enough, Baron, probably because you have zero intention of buying one. You are anti-Intel, you have said so numerous times, because of its alleged monopolistic practices. Yet you feel no compunction whatsoever about using Microsoft products, even though their monopolistic practices have been confirmed by the courts in the US and EU and have driven more small companies to bankruptcy than Intel.


Fisrt off, if I have to search that hard on Neweg, they obviously aren't trying to hard to sell them. The AM2 mobos were available on the right page at launch day.

Intel has used monopolistic practices as proved by Japan, and Korea and even the EU has looked at them. That doesn't make me anti-Intel, but Pro-Choice. As far as MS if you go to http://mimimsft.blogspot.com, you'll see that I am not very happy with the way MS acts either. Yet another reason I quit WIndows and moved back East.

If I felt lie using Linux and not playing as many games - I would but unfortunately being a .Net developer I have to use Windows. I was thinking about trying Ubuntu Linux, but haven't had time.

I hope there are plnty of them but how can peopel who don't think about looking under North Bridge going to find them? It didn't occur to me.

My whole point was that availability would be low for awhile. 1 million in seven weeks will not provide that many will it?
!