Lasers - HP vs Other Brands (Image Transfer Units, etc.)

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

I'm looking into purchasing a new printer.

Over time, I've tended to stick with HP lasers because they simply
never break (my experience - not a plug for HP.)

As I evaluate other brands, one thing I'm concerned about are the extra
consumables besides toner. In all the time I've owned HP's, I've never
replaced anything besides the rollers... and even those not that often.

I've noticed that other brands tend to have extras. For example, I've
been looking at the Samsung 510, a multi-function color laser that has
a great street price right now (under 300 after rebate). On first
glance, I don't know where I could go wrong. Color, multifunctin, AND
duplexing built in.

However, looking at the specs, I see that the printer also has an
Imaging Unit and a drum cartridge that have ratings at about 50,000
pages and a cost of 130 bucks. So... if something goes wrong, or if I
print a lot (which I do) - that 300 dollar price could go up and up
over time. Toner, I know I have to pay for - it's those extras I'm
trying to avoid. That sort of scares me and pushes me back toward HP.

Does anyone out there know the difference in architecture between HP
and the other brands? Does HP simply have a different design that
incorporates drum/transfer units in a different way? Are there other
brands that don't have consumable drums, etc that could cost more than
the printer?

And just to be clear - I am only interested in going with a laser. I
print a LOT of pages, and laser just makes more sense on the per-page
basis.

Thanks in advance.
7 answers Last reply
More about lasers brands image transfer units
  1. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    scriptdude wrote:
    > I'm looking into purchasing a new printer.
    >
    > Over time, I've tended to stick with HP lasers because they simply
    > never break (my experience - not a plug for HP.)
    FWIW, I've been pretty happy with my Lexmark Optra R+. After 10+ years
    and 13178 prints, only the printhead has needed replacing. I was able
    to do thay myself. My usage hasn't been very high on it, but it has
    been in service for quite a while, with lots of power on/off cycles.

    [...]
    > Does anyone out there know the difference in architecture between HP
    > and the other brands? Does HP simply have a different design that
    > incorporates drum/transfer units in a different way? Are there other
    > brands that don't have consumable drums, etc that could cost more than
    > the printer?

    Look at the paper path - some are more convoluted, which can limit your
    choices of print media.
    Color lasers have several differences in how the image is transferred
    to the paper (single drum vs. four drum, the Xerox 7750 has an
    accumulator belt).

    Some manufacturers have a fairly good description of the consumables
    and routine maintenance items. One example is Xerox - if you dig
    through their support pages, you'll find information on how they expect
    the toner, imaging units, accumulator belt, transfer roller, fuser,
    belt cleaner, etc. to last. This might also give you things to
    consider when looking at any color laser.

    As another respondent said, consider how man prints/month the printer
    was design for.

    > And just to be clear - I am only interested in going with a laser. I
    > print a LOT of pages, and laser just makes more sense on the per-page
    > basis.
    Have you ruled out the LED printers?

    > Thanks in advance.
  2. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    In article <1117720221.932028.299560@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>,
    scriptdude <hudson1332@yahoo.com> wrote:
    >I'm looking into purchasing a new printer.
    >
    >Over time, I've tended to stick with HP lasers because they simply
    >never break (my experience - not a plug for HP.)
    >
    >As I evaluate other brands, one thing I'm concerned about are the extra
    >consumables besides toner. In all the time I've owned HP's, I've never
    >replaced anything besides the rollers... and even those not that often.
    >
    >I've noticed that other brands tend to have extras. For example, I've
    >been looking at the Samsung 510, a multi-function color laser that has
    >a great street price right now (under 300 after rebate). On first
    >glance, I don't know where I could go wrong. Color, multifunctin, AND
    >duplexing built in.
    >
    >However, looking at the specs, I see that the printer also has an
    >Imaging Unit and a drum cartridge that have ratings at about 50,000
    >pages and a cost of 130 bucks. So... if something goes wrong, or if I
    >print a lot (which I do) - that 300 dollar price could go up and up
    >over time. Toner, I know I have to pay for - it's those extras I'm
    >trying to avoid. That sort of scares me and pushes me back toward HP.
    >
    >Does anyone out there know the difference in architecture between HP
    >and the other brands? Does HP simply have a different design that
    >incorporates drum/transfer units in a different way? Are there other
    >brands that don't have consumable drums, etc that could cost more than
    >the printer?
    >
    >And just to be clear - I am only interested in going with a laser. I
    >print a LOT of pages, and laser just makes more sense on the per-page
    >basis.
    >
    >Thanks in advance.
    >


    IME the HP and other color lasers all have a long list of consumables.

    pay attention to the specs for pages/month when you select a
    printer. If you exceed that on a regular basis it's like you will be
    unhappy with your purchase.

    Read the wrranty. The warranty on Low-end printers is
    replacement-only. They don't repair them and they don't have to
    replace it with the same model. I wouldn't buy a business printer
    with that warranty. It means that if you stock spares for consumables
    and your printer breaks you're out of luck if the model they replace
    it with uses different parts.


    --
    a d y k e s @ p a n i x . c o m

    Don't blame me. I voted for Gore.
  3. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    In addition to your research on consumables, I'd recommend you get
    print samples from all of the printers you're considering. The Samsung
    printers, for example, while having 1200dpi print quality, have a dull
    matte result which some people don't care for (others seem to prefer
    it).

    www.druckerchannel.de has good reviews on quite a few colour laser
    printers. They print thousands of pages and then calculate the true
    cost per page with all the consumables taken into account. It's a very
    good site for printer research (don't forget to use babelfish!). See
    http://www.druckerchannel.de/device_table.php -- the printers which
    have a comment next to their name have been reviewed.
  4. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    All laser printers work in a very similar way, the components all have to be
    there one way or another and there are certain parts that wear out.
    Image drums
    transfer rollers or belts,
    Fusing (fixing) units.
    Pick up rollers and separation pads

    Some colour lasers have very expensive consumables and some do not, some have
    multiple drums and some have one. Some toners have drums built in and some
    don't. So the calculation is complex.
    I suggest you ask the suppliers for the cost to print per page over, say
    100,000 pages for each printer you are looking at excluding paper cost. The
    cost per page should include all routine replacement items. These costs are
    often available on the manufacturers websites.
    (BTW HP lasers all need the fuser, transfer roller etcetera to be replaced
    during their life just like other manufacturers.)
    The problem is that each printer is specified differently, an image transfer
    unit may be rated at 10,000 pages or 350,000 pages depending on the design
    criteria and target market.
    So cost per page is the best way to compare apples with apples. Also ensure the
    page cover they quote (usually 5%) is the same in each case, if it is not you
    can extrapolate (a 4% cover cost multiplied by 1.25 equals a 5% cover).
    Lastly ask whether the consumables (image unit, transfer roller/belt, pick up
    rollers/separation pads, fuser/fixing unit) are user replaceable or do you have
    to pay someone to do it!
    Other criteria which may be important: Are you going to print labels (flat
    paper paths are best)? Banner printing? Warm up time, some colour printers warm
    up much faster than others (carousel models are often slower to warm up). These
    may not be important to you of course.
    Tony


    "scriptdude" <hudson1332@yahoo.com> wrote:
    >I'm looking into purchasing a new printer.
    >
    >Over time, I've tended to stick with HP lasers because they simply
    >never break (my experience - not a plug for HP.)
    >
    >As I evaluate other brands, one thing I'm concerned about are the extra
    >consumables besides toner. In all the time I've owned HP's, I've never
    >replaced anything besides the rollers... and even those not that often.
    >
    >I've noticed that other brands tend to have extras. For example, I've
    >been looking at the Samsung 510, a multi-function color laser that has
    >a great street price right now (under 300 after rebate). On first
    >glance, I don't know where I could go wrong. Color, multifunctin, AND
    >duplexing built in.
    >
    >However, looking at the specs, I see that the printer also has an
    >Imaging Unit and a drum cartridge that have ratings at about 50,000
    >pages and a cost of 130 bucks. So... if something goes wrong, or if I
    >print a lot (which I do) - that 300 dollar price could go up and up
    >over time. Toner, I know I have to pay for - it's those extras I'm
    >trying to avoid. That sort of scares me and pushes me back toward HP.
    >
    >Does anyone out there know the difference in architecture between HP
    >and the other brands? Does HP simply have a different design that
    >incorporates drum/transfer units in a different way? Are there other
    >brands that don't have consumable drums, etc that could cost more than
    >the printer?
    >
    >And just to be clear - I am only interested in going with a laser. I
    >print a LOT of pages, and laser just makes more sense on the per-page
    >basis.
    >
    >Thanks in advance.
    >
  5. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    In message <1117723870.296945.143900@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>,
    gnewsremove1@uugw.hifn.com writes
    >FWIW, I've been pretty happy with my Lexmark Optra R+. After 10+ years
    >and 13178 prints, only the printhead has needed replacing. I was able
    >to do thay myself. My usage hasn't been very high on it, but it has
    >been in service for quite a while, with lots of power on/off cycles.

    Its odd Lexmark seem to manage quite decent lasers but the inkjets arent
    much to get excited about. The only Xerox inkjet I had wasn't much cop
    either - it didn't get much use and got bunged up beyond economic
    repair, but their lasers are pretty decent.

    If you want something without too much fiddling about you may want to
    consider Xerox's Phaser 8400 as it now is and Kyocera's machines the
    Kyocera you are looking at a larger initial cost but less intervention
    and lower running costs.

    --
    Timothy
  6. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    Laser technology is very varied in how it is administered.

    What you need to know is that there are three main components.


    An imaging drum or belt that is sensitive to light and electrostatic charges

    A powdered toner that is transferred to the drum or belt and then
    transferred to the paper and melted onto the paper surface.

    Usually, some type of "developer" which is magnetic and serves to
    distribute the toner to the drum. This material may be integrated as
    part of the toner, or may not be used at all in some designs.

    I am not familiar with HP color laser printers enough to be sure about
    how they operate, but I will make some guesses overall.

    Color laser printers add considerable complexity to the process. The
    theory is all the same, but each print requires 4 cycles adding the four
    color toners down (CMYK). There are a number of ways this can be
    accomplished. Some send the paper through four completely separate sets
    of drum units each transferring the toner powders onto it and then at
    the end it is sent through a fuser to melt it all onto the paper
    surface, some transfer the 4 toners onto a belt and only then is it
    transferred to the paper and fused onto it. Some move the drums around
    and leave the paper stationary as the colored toner is transferred to
    the paper.

    Therefore each system has differing amount of consumables.

    With black and white printers, HP/Canon developed a system with a self
    contained cartridge which contained the drum unit, and a mixed
    developer/toner, and a magnetic roller which helped to distribute the
    toner. This whole unit was replaced/tossed refilled when it ran out of
    toner/developer mix, as a unit. This is a very convenient but costly
    approach because the truth is the drums are usually good for several
    toner refills. On systems that use independent developer and toner,
    very little of the developer is consumed and it is good for numerous
    toner refills before it needs to be replaced. Some printer have gone to
    using no toner at all and just using an electrostatic plastic that holds
    the toner for distribution to the drum or paper.

    Two truths:

    1) Color laser printers, like color inkjet printers are being sold
    extremely cheaply with the assumption the money will be made up on
    refilling consumables. Therefore, the consumables will be made as
    proprietary as possible, and will be evry costly. Often one replacement
    of the consumables with be as costly as the whole printer when bought new.

    However, watch out, most color laser printers come with "starter or
    economy cartridges" meaning their yields will be considerably less than
    the replacement cartridge, or the replacement will come in two versions,
    the same as the initial version OR one that provided 2-4 times greater
    yield for only a few dollars more than the partially filled one, like
    that which the printer arrived with. Other consumables include, image
    drum(s) or bent and fuser oil, which is used to help keep the paper from
    sticking to the usually teflon coated fuser drum which heats.

    2) Generally models that make it convenient by having a whole cartridge
    unit removable for replacement rather than the component parts which
    tend to run down at different duty cycles, will be more costly overall
    to maintain. Models that allow each part to be replaced based upon its
    likely lifespan will cost less, but parts may be more difficult to find,
    especially as years go by.

    In order to really know running costs you have to get on the company's
    web pages and look at how long consumable are designed to last, which
    they cost and so on. It's a bit tricky with color laser.

    Other considerations are : start up time for first print, time per print
    after first, cost of extra memory, whcihmay not be standard computer
    memeory, cost of paper tray if a larger on is required.


    scriptdude wrote:

    > I'm looking into purchasing a new printer.
    >
    > Over time, I've tended to stick with HP lasers because they simply
    > never break (my experience - not a plug for HP.)
    >
    > As I evaluate other brands, one thing I'm concerned about are the extra
    > consumables besides toner. In all the time I've owned HP's, I've never
    > replaced anything besides the rollers... and even those not that often.
    >
    > I've noticed that other brands tend to have extras. For example, I've
    > been looking at the Samsung 510, a multi-function color laser that has
    > a great street price right now (under 300 after rebate). On first
    > glance, I don't know where I could go wrong. Color, multifunctin, AND
    > duplexing built in.
    >
    > However, looking at the specs, I see that the printer also has an
    > Imaging Unit and a drum cartridge that have ratings at about 50,000
    > pages and a cost of 130 bucks. So... if something goes wrong, or if I
    > print a lot (which I do) - that 300 dollar price could go up and up
    > over time. Toner, I know I have to pay for - it's those extras I'm
    > trying to avoid. That sort of scares me and pushes me back toward HP.
    >
    > Does anyone out there know the difference in architecture between HP
    > and the other brands? Does HP simply have a different design that
    > incorporates drum/transfer units in a different way? Are there other
    > brands that don't have consumable drums, etc that could cost more than
    > the printer?
    >
    > And just to be clear - I am only interested in going with a laser. I
    > print a LOT of pages, and laser just makes more sense on the per-page
    > basis.
    >
    > Thanks in advance.
    >
  7. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    In message <Oq_ne.1562854$6l.561870@pd7tw2no>, Arthur Entlich
    <e-printerhelp@mvps.org> writes
    >Laser technology is very varied in how it is administered.
    >
    IIRC my QMS 2200 had the following things:
    The four toner cartridges, the black one lasted about 4,500 pages the
    colours about 10,000. A Fuser oil roller ad an opc drum kit which both
    lasted around 15,000 and finally a transfer unit and transfer belt by
    the time it was time to change these with the cost I replaced it
    instead.


    --
    Timothy
Ask a new question

Read More

Printers Hewlett Packard Peripherals