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Intel vs AMD in multiproc servers (need insight)

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  • CPUs
  • AMD
  • Intel
  • Servers
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August 3, 2006 4:17:44 PM

What is Intel doing to counter AMD's huge growth in multiprocessor servers? I know that AMD has the technical advantage, but does the new Itanium 2 compete at all or does Intel have products in the pipeline to recover the lost market share or is Intel going to keep losing for the foreseeable future?

<<please no fanboys in this topic>>

More about : intel amd multiproc servers insight

August 3, 2006 5:06:37 PM

Itanium is not a direct competitor to Opteron. It is not even x86, it is RISC. It sits on the higher end of the server market w/ SUN (sparc) and IBM (power5). While you can find "small" clusters that could theoretically compete w/ an x86 opty there is no native x86 support in Itanium2, and much like ibm and sun the proc is too specialized to really hack at that market anyway...

...no, the new xeons that are based on the same core architecture as core2 are what intel has lined up to hit on Opteron, and most analysts are worried about the scaling issue that intel has on 4 or more procs. It will be interesting to see for sure.

have you looked here on the forums? It deals directly w/ Itanium2 and while short may give other insights to it... there are lots of ideas that are explored all the time on these forums. ;) 

rock on.
August 3, 2006 6:31:15 PM

yeap ... everybody talking nonsenses ´bout "conroe x amd" and forget the good market share that lies on multiprocessor servers....

The IMC still the great advantagem of AMD in this case ... nothing new from intel that could really make a diference now...

so... let´s wait !
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August 3, 2006 7:10:40 PM

Quote:
Itanium is not a direct competitor to Opteron. It is not even x86, it is RISC. It sits on the higher end of the server market w/ SUN (sparc) and IBM (power5). While you can find "small" clusters that could theoretically compete w/ an x86 opty there is no native x86 support in Itanium2, and much like ibm and sun the proc is too specialized to really hack at that market anyway...

...no, the new xeons that are based on the same core architecture as core2 are what intel has lined up to hit on Opteron, and most analysts are worried about the scaling issue that intel has on 4 or more procs. It will be interesting to see for sure.

have you looked here on the forums? It deals directly w/ Itanium2 and while short may give other insights to it... there are lots of ideas that are explored all the time on these forums. ;) 

rock on.



Actually, Itanium is EPIC(Explicitly Parallel Instruction Computing) or VLWI (Very Long Instruction Word). Because of clustering the Opteron DOES compete with Itanium.

Right now AMD is just below Power 5. And K8L should put WIndows out of reach and make Linux CPUs panic. Te price of Itanic is also much higher than for Opteron and it has 1.7 billion transistors.

They are supposed to get an interchangeable bus called CSI for Xeon and Itanium, but by then AMD will have 8-core chips. I see 8 cores at 45nm. Also, AMD has teh advantage of HTX which is a really fast "bus" (it's more an interconnect) that will be 25.6GB/s when K8L (AMD quad-core server).

Woodcrest has made up some distance but it's said that Socket F (AMDs DDR2 server) is 20% faster in floating point than the current socket 940 chips. This is with ECC DDR2 @ 667MHz.

So when you're at two sockets currently Woodcrest does a good job but when you go to 4 sockets, the FSB starts to get "crowded" so it can't really compete in 8Way though Intel has great server chipsets.

With AMD purchasing ATi they will more than likely start to produce their own server chipsets which will give them an even greater advantage.
August 3, 2006 7:27:53 PM

My bad on the RISC comment... I was thinking one thing and writing another. :oops:  I was meaning to write that Itanium competes w/ the RISC chips. (power5 and sparc). thanks for the clarification.

Quote:
Right now AMD is just below Power 5. And K8L should put WIndows out of reach and make Linux CPUs panic. Te price of Itanic is also much higher than for Opteron and it has 1.7 billion transistors.


opteron below the power5? did not think they were in the same market at all... hmm.

and that price of the itanium is why it is in the market w/ sparc and power5... ya, on the low end a cluster of 4 itaniums might be in the ballpark (performance-wise) of a 4-way opteron on certain areas, but afaik the market the buys those cluster servers is after the specific areas that an opteron does not even try to compete w/... VMS being one example.

Not trying to argue and I am not trying to say itanium is bad or that opteron pwns all... just stating what I know, and that ain't much. lol

I do agree w/ you on the woodcrest multi-proc scaling issues... which is what I was alluding to earlier.
August 3, 2006 7:31:35 PM

There was an article on tech news I'd seen onthis very similar.
IBM itanium is different architechture/level.
The xeon<amd opteron currently.
Infact IBM plans on starting to use AMD chips for it's lower to mid end models and budget performance lines.

http://www.technewsworld.com/story/52146.html
August 3, 2006 7:34:33 PM

Quote:
They are supposed to get an interchangeable bus called CSI for Xeon and Itanium, but by then AMD will have 8-core chips. I see 8 cores at 45nm. Also, AMD has teh advantage of HTX which is a really fast "bus" (it's more an interconnect) that will be 25.6GB/s when K8L (AMD quad-core server).


And HyperTransport 3.0/4.0 coming around the corner. :wink:
August 3, 2006 7:36:19 PM

Quote:
What is Intel doing to counter AMD's huge growth in multiprocessor servers? I know that AMD has the technical advantage, but does the new Itanium 2 compete at all or does Intel have products in the pipeline to recover the lost market share or is Intel going to keep losing for the foreseeable future?

<<please no fanboys in this topic>>


Check this video interview of Andy Bechtolsheim from SUN Microsystems:
http://www.sun.com/2006-0801/feature/index.jsp
August 3, 2006 8:13:20 PM

Quote:
I do agree w/ you on the woodcrest multi-proc scaling issues... which is what I was alluding to earlier.


Doesn't matter. Woodcrest will still sell like hotcakes WHEN there's more general availability!

HP still doesn't sell workstations with Xeon 5160s - but do sell the lower grade ones (why bother? The systems cost similar to Opterons)
August 3, 2006 8:22:39 PM

Thanks for all the good info....looks like AMD will still be able to turn a (tiny) profit in the next 2 quarters although they crippled their balance sheet with the ATI acquisition. I was wondering if I should buy another put option...made 37% on August puts around the earnings release in July. I don't think I will buy puts again though as AMD's multip servers seem to be the gold mine that's keeping them going. If the stock's in the 20's around the next earnings I may Put them at that time.

I just wanted to say THANK YOU to THG and all the intelligent posters here (not you 9nm) for giving me the info to know that AMD would cut prices and give a crappy outlook.

ps. As I was buying the puts, Sharikou was spamming the Yahoo finance board telling everyone how great AMD's earnings would be...now I have his money in my pocket. It'll be used better supporting my family than in his account waiting to buy the mythical 4x4.

pps. Thanks for including Sun and the HyperTRANNY in my NO FANBOYS Intel vs AMD multip server Topic 9nm. Jackass.
August 3, 2006 8:53:36 PM

Just remember.
AMD makes a lot more than these specific processors.
Also servers is a much bigger market.
Which I don't see AMD stock running off and up.
I don't see it going down.
With the announcement of apple ibm and now using amd chips that is a huge opening in the market for them.
Even if ATI might slow them down a bit.
It is time ATI steps up to the plate.
I hope they have something coming to the market soon to appease the masses/long time ati supporters.
Given I like nvidea anyway.
August 3, 2006 10:07:03 PM

You have to look at ASPs for AMD along with their fundamentals. They've only made a profit for a few quarters and core is hurting them already. f you figure out their balance sheet after the ATI acquisition....it's a nightmare. They are (over?) leveraged and planning to build a $4.5 billion fab in upstate New York...compare 4.5 billion to their retained earnings and get back to me. AMD stock is a dog now that core's around and the ATI acquisition was a desparate move. ATI won't add very much and Intel and NVidea will squeeze them in the IGP market.

They have good products but a bad cost structure compared to Intel's and bad cash management. Intel's JV with Micron will help them keep chipset costs low going forwards while AMD will have to buy outside flash. With equal products, AMD will barely survive while Intel will thrive. If I had the money and the ability, I would sell AMD January 2007 25 calls. AMD investors are too emotional and not rational enough. I wouldn't be surprised if the stock hits 25 and then goes to 15.
August 4, 2006 12:08:50 AM

Quote:
Thanks for all the good info....looks like AMD will still be able to turn a (tiny) profit in the next 2 quarters although they crippled their balance sheet with the ATI acquisition. I was wondering if I should buy another put option...made 37% on August puts around the earnings release in July. I don't think I will buy puts again though as AMD's multip servers seem to be the gold mine that's keeping them going. If the stock's in the 20's around the next earnings I may Put them at that time.

I just wanted to say THANK YOU to THG and all the intelligent posters here (not you 9nm) for giving me the info to know that AMD would cut prices and give a crappy outlook.

ps. As I was buying the puts, Sharikou was spamming the Yahoo finance board telling everyone how great AMD's earnings would be...now I have his money in my pocket. It'll be used better supporting my family than in his account waiting to buy the mythical 4x4.

pps. Thanks for including Sun and the HyperTRANNY in my NO FANBOYS Intel vs AMD multip server Topic 9nm. Jackass.



It took a lot of guts but most of the CASH portion is from a loan. The rest is stock. They had about 2.5B in cash and just borrowed against it and I'm sure that companies like MS, Sun, Google will MAKE SURE that AMD stays around.

Their stock fell because analysts don't realize that Intel does not have the kind of market position (not share) to push AMD around anymore. Dell has already picked up a full line of AMD products and when the announcement from Dell comes the stock should recieve a nice boost.

It is said that their server line will be around 33-50% AMD by Q107. Intel does have a quad core coming but people have their doubts as to how "server-ready" it is with 2 FSBs and four Cores.

If K8L lives up to it's specs, it will be devastating for every other server CPU. AMD is the only sevrer chip that runs EXCLUSIVELY on HyperTransport.
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