Warning about Canon PIXMA iP3000/iP4000 series printers

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers,comp.os.linux.hardware (More info?)

We were considering buying a Canon PIXMA iP3000 because these are the
first printers we have ever seen that finally quit ripping people off
quite so much on ink. The whole printer ink jet market, until now,
has been a scam, making you spend an average of $40-$60 buy new print
heads and cartridges for all three colors because one color runs out.
That is like having to replace your gas tank, fuel pump, radiator,
water pump, windshield washer tank and wiper motors, because you ran
out of gas or got too low on radiator fluid. Oh, and by the way,
there are no gauges, or transparent tanks, and no way to check the
fluid levels. Just one idiot light that says you are low on one of
your fluids. Time to replace all of the above to make sure you get
the right one.

The PIXMA printers are the first ones we have seen that have separate
transparent cartridges for each color that you can see the ink level
in and are easy to refill or replace without buying a new print head.

However, Canon is trying to make sure you pay royalties to Apple or
pay Microsoft to run on an insecure system full of spyware in order to
use their printers. There is no printer control language (PCL)
documentation or PPD files available. I called Canon's tech support
at 1-800-828-4040 and they refused to provide any technical
documentation to run their printers. Charlie, the supervisor I spoke
with, said that they did not have that information, and that to have it
would be of no use to them. I said, "Having the PCL documentation to
provide to people in the open source community so that they can write
drivers and open the market of millions of potential customers for
your printers from the NetBSD, FreeBSD, OpenBSD, and Linux communities
is of no use to you?" For the most part, he kept evading questions
about his statement. He also said they write their own drivers even
though he kept claiming that they did not have the specifications to
write drivers. He said the printers are made in Japan and they are
the only ones who have the driver documentation. Yet he also claimed
to have no email address or phone number to contact the branch in
Japan.

In other words, Canon is boycotting the open source community and
trying to make you run only on proprietory commercial platforms in
order to use their printers.


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61 answers Last reply
More about warning canon pixma ip3000 ip4000 series printers
  1. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    On Tue, 07 Jun 2005 19:44:15 -0500, Vincent wrote:

    > We were considering buying a Canon PIXMA iP3000 because these are the
    > first printers we have ever seen that finally quit ripping people off
    > quite so much on ink. The whole printer ink jet market, until now,
    > has been a scam, making you spend an average of $40-$60 buy new print
    > heads and cartridges for all three colors because one color runs out.
    > That is like having to replace your gas tank, fuel pump, radiator,
    > water pump, windshield washer tank and wiper motors, because you ran
    > out of gas or got too low on radiator fluid. Oh, and by the way,
    > there are no gauges, or transparent tanks, and no way to check the
    > fluid levels. Just one idiot light that says you are low on one of
    > your fluids. Time to replace all of the above to make sure you get
    > the right one.
    >
    > The PIXMA printers are the first ones we have seen that have separate
    > transparent cartridges for each color that you can see the ink level
    > in and are easy to refill or replace without buying a new print head.

    I recently bought an Epson Photo R320 - it has six individual ink tanks,
    and there is a utility 'mtink' which shows ink levels on the computer.
    Canon is well known in the Linux community for making boat anchors.
  2. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    If you do your research before you buy, you will find out exactly which
    operating systems are supported.
    --
    Cari (MS-MVP)
    Printing & Imaging


    "Vincent" <newsposting1@crel.us> wrote in message
    news:lcrpe.25872$DC2.6751@okepread01...
    > We were considering buying a Canon PIXMA iP3000 because these are the
    > first printers we have ever seen that finally quit ripping people off
    > quite so much on ink. The whole printer ink jet market, until now,
    > has been a scam, making you spend an average of $40-$60 buy new print
    > heads and cartridges for all three colors because one color runs out.
    > That is like having to replace your gas tank, fuel pump, radiator,
    > water pump, windshield washer tank and wiper motors, because you ran
    > out of gas or got too low on radiator fluid. Oh, and by the way,
    > there are no gauges, or transparent tanks, and no way to check the
    > fluid levels. Just one idiot light that says you are low on one of
    > your fluids. Time to replace all of the above to make sure you get
    > the right one.
    >
    > The PIXMA printers are the first ones we have seen that have separate
    > transparent cartridges for each color that you can see the ink level
    > in and are easy to refill or replace without buying a new print head.
    >
    > However, Canon is trying to make sure you pay royalties to Apple or
    > pay Microsoft to run on an insecure system full of spyware in order to
    > use their printers. There is no printer control language (PCL)
    > documentation or PPD files available. I called Canon's tech support
    > at 1-800-828-4040 and they refused to provide any technical
    > documentation to run their printers. Charlie, the supervisor I spoke
    > with, said that they did not have that information, and that to have it
    > would be of no use to them. I said, "Having the PCL documentation to
    > provide to people in the open source community so that they can write
    > drivers and open the market of millions of potential customers for
    > your printers from the NetBSD, FreeBSD, OpenBSD, and Linux communities
    > is of no use to you?" For the most part, he kept evading questions
    > about his statement. He also said they write their own drivers even
    > though he kept claiming that they did not have the specifications to
    > write drivers. He said the printers are made in Japan and they are
    > the only ones who have the driver documentation. Yet he also claimed
    > to have no email address or phone number to contact the branch in
    > Japan.
    >
    > In other words, Canon is boycotting the open source community and
    > trying to make you run only on proprietory commercial platforms in
    > order to use their printers.
    >
    >
    > --
    > Avoid the VeriSign/Network Solutions domain registration trap!
    > Read how Network Solutions (NSI) was involved in stealing our domain name.
    > http://inetaddresses.net/about_NSI.html
    >
    >
  3. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    > In other words, Canon is boycotting the open source community and
    > trying to make you run only on proprietory commercial platforms in
    > order to use their printers.

    Boycotting the open source community? Me thinks you are barking up the
    wrong tree.

    ftp://download.canon.jp/pub/driver/bj/linux/

    I see the Pixus 4100 and 3100, which are the US Pixma 4000 and 3000
    respectivly. These are binary only, not open source, but they are they
    do have linux drivers. I'm told they even work with the 4000R, but
    I've not tested this personaly as I'm a cheap bastard and only own the
    iP3000 and mP760.

    BSD couldn't tell ya, but but Linux drives exist. They won't help you
    install them, or at least that's what they told me, but if your running
    linux/bsd you should expect this.

    I also read somewhere that old mac systems require something about
    installing in classic mode? I don't know what that means, but could be
    worth looking into. It might mean your cruddy pos old BJ drivers might
    print on it.

    Even if these drivers didn't exist you could always use TurboPrint.
    Sure it's not open source, sure it costs about USD$39. But it is an
    option.
  4. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    On Tue, 07 Jun 2005 19:44:15 -0500, Vincent <newsposting1@crel.us>
    wrote:

    >However, Canon is trying to make sure you pay royalties to Apple or
    >pay Microsoft to run on an insecure system full of spyware in order to
    >use their printers

    Install Zone Alarm (free firewall) and you can have it block all
    outgoing traffic from those spyware. As far as the spyware's
    concerned you have a lousy internet connection and can't transmit
    anything at all.
    --
    When you hear the toilet flush, and hear the words "uh oh", it's already
    too late. - by anonymous Mother in Austin, TX
    To reply, replace digi.mon with phreaker.net
  5. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    > I use lexmrk and am considering switching to Canon for my next printer
    > because Lexmark's mexican-made carts band too much. I do all my printing
    > off-line and use a laser for web stuff. Does the spyware operate when the
    > printer is not being used?

    Good choice. Lexmark is one if not the most expensive printer to
    operate per page, and doesn't justify it self with quality. Canon is
    at the other end of the scale, where HP and Epsons are rather in the
    middle. Each has their own charms and features.

    I rather thought that Lexmarks phoned home, but this could just be Dell
    printers. I've seen the Dell lexmark phone home, but they are polite
    enough to tell you what they are sending.

    My Epson from time to time has asked to phone home, I said no. It
    never said why.

    I have NEVER noticed my Canon trying to phone home. I'm not saying it
    doesn't, only I've never see a firewall warning about the software it
    installed.


    Keep in mind that the parent is a frustrated rant about the existence
    of Linux and BSD drivers. Frustrated due to deal with technical
    support who love to give answers with many words but say absolutely
    nothing. I am most empathetic, in fact I just had the bounce around
    asking simple yes or no questions and getting conditional responces.
    But it's inaccurate on the point of Linux drivers, they do infect exist
    on Japan's ftp site. Hard to find as they are listed as being for the
    Pixus where everywhere else it's the Pixma. I suspect they were
    meaning that Windows is likely to get infected with spyware where linux
    isn't a target.
  6. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    Vincent wrote:

    > We were considering buying a Canon PIXMA iP3000 .....
    >
    > The PIXMA printers are the first ones we have seen that have separate
    > transparent cartridges for each color that you can see the ink level
    > in and are easy to refill or replace without buying a new print head.

    There were earlier models that had such tanks.
    >
    > In other words, Canon is boycotting the open source community and
    > trying to make you run only on proprietory commercial platforms in
    > order to use their printers.
    >
    Canon is, but others aren't. I discovered Turboprint has drivers for most of
    the Canon models; they list the Pixma i3000, et al., as supported.

    Check http://www.turboprint.de/printers.html for further information.

    Al Preston
  7. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    Impmon (impmon@digi.mon) writes:
    > On Tue, 07 Jun 2005 19:44:15 -0500, Vincent <newsposting1@crel.us>
    > wrote:
    >
    >>However, Canon is trying to make sure you pay royalties to Apple or
    >>pay Microsoft to run on an insecure system full of spyware in order to
    >>use their printers
    >
    > Install Zone Alarm (free firewall) and you can have it block all
    > outgoing traffic from those spyware. As far as the spyware's
    > concerned you have a lousy internet connection and can't transmit
    > anything at all.
    > --

    I use lexmrk and am considering switching to Canon for my next printer
    because Lexmark's mexican-made carts band too much. I do all my printing
    off-line and use a laser for web stuff. Does the spyware operate when the
    printer is not being used?

    Brendan
    --
  8. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    | We were considering buying a Canon PIXMA iP3000 ....
    | ....
    | In other words, Canon is boycotting the open source community
    | and trying to make you run only on proprietory commercial platforms
    | in order to use their printers.

    Vincent ....

    I've been using a Canon Pixma iP3000 inkjet printer
    under Debian GNU/Linux Sarge for about 6 months ....

    It was configured through the KDE Control Center
    to use the Canon BJ-7004 driver with CUPS ....

    In the vernacular of linuxprinting.org
    it seems to "mostly work" ....

    There are some font-size issues when printing
    from KDE applications that I haven't resolved
    as yet but feel may be easily correctable
    with proper font settings ....

    This seems to be less problematic when printing
    documents from gtklp instead of directly
    through KDE ....

    We bought this printer to use on an old Win98_SE machine
    and I consider it a very nice bonus that it also
    "mostly works" under Linux ....


    --
    Stanley C. Kitching
    Human Being
    Phoenix, Arizona

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  9. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    > In other words, Canon is boycotting the open source community and
    > trying to make you run only on proprietory commercial platforms in
    > order to use their printers.

    http://www.linuxprinting.org/canon-faq.html#free_software_support

    I don't even see the iP3000 in the printer database
    (http://www.linuxprinting.org/printer_list.cgi?make=Canon). You might
    consider adding what you know to it.

    --
    To reply by email, change "deadspam.com" to "alumni.utexas.net"
  10. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    In article <1%wpe.267549$Yr4.53774@fe07.news.easynews.com>,
    andrex@deadspam.com says...
    > > In other words, Canon is boycotting the open source community and
    > > trying to make you run only on proprietory commercial platforms in
    > > order to use their printers.
    >


    There is a really BIG difference between being boycotted and being ignored.
    I think probably Canon is doing the later, not the former.

    Since Canon doesnt promise any support for other platforms, why would you
    expect to get any?

    A boycott requires concious effort, and I dont think there is any.


    --
    Larry Lynch
    Mystic, Ct.
  11. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    Vincent wrote:
    > We were considering buying a Canon PIXMA iP3000 because these are the
    > first printers we have ever seen that finally quit ripping people off
    > quite so much on ink.

    But if you want your prints to last, you should use Canon premium paper.
    Have you checked the price of Canon premium papers? There is no free
    lunch.
  12. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    > But if you want your prints to last, you should use Canon premium paper.
    > Have you checked the price of Canon premium papers?
    > There is no free lunch.

    Why not Ilford? Will Ilford not last? I have many friends who used
    the S520 with Ilford paper which IIRC uses the same ink.

    So it's 64c a sheet. Ilford's Galerie fetches about 60c a sheet at
    the local camera shop. Costco's Kirland paper made by a *cough*
    unnamed Swiss maker for 15c a sheet.
  13. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    On Wed, 08 Jun 2005 14:52:56 +1200, Frederick
    <nomailplease@nomail.com> wrote:

    >But if you want your prints to last, you should use Canon premium paper.
    > Have you checked the price of Canon premium papers? There is no free
    >lunch.

    9 out of 10 times a cheap photo paper will work. Just hang them
    behind glass to prevent fading due to sunlight exposure.
    --
    When you hear the toilet flush, and hear the words "uh oh", it's already
    too late. - by anonymous Mother in Austin, TX
    To reply, replace digi.mon with phreaker.net
  14. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    On Tue, 07 Jun 2005 23:54:52 -0400, Impmon <impmon@digi.mon> wrote:

    >On Wed, 08 Jun 2005 14:52:56 +1200, Frederick
    ><nomailplease@nomail.com> wrote:
    >
    >>But if you want your prints to last, you should use Canon premium paper.
    >> Have you checked the price of Canon premium papers? There is no free
    >>lunch.
    >
    >9 out of 10 times a cheap photo paper will work. Just hang them
    >behind glass to prevent fading due to sunlight exposure.

    Polycarbonate will work better. It tends to block UV light better
    than glass.
    ---------------------------------------------

    MCheu
  15. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    Cousin Stanley wrote:

    > | We were considering buying a Canon PIXMA iP3000 ....
    > | ....
    > | In other words, Canon is boycotting the open source community
    > | and trying to make you run only on proprietory commercial platforms
    > | in order to use their printers.
    >
    > Vincent ....
    >
    > I've been using a Canon Pixma iP3000 inkjet printer
    > under Debian GNU/Linux Sarge for about 6 months ....
    >
    > It was configured through the KDE Control Center
    > to use the Canon BJ-7004 driver with CUPS ....
    >
    > In the vernacular of linuxprinting.org
    > it seems to "mostly work" ....
    >
    > There are some font-size issues when printing
    > from KDE applications that I haven't resolved
    > as yet but feel may be easily correctable
    > with proper font settings ....
    >
    > This seems to be less problematic when printing
    > documents from gtklp instead of directly
    > through KDE ....
    >
    > We bought this printer to use on an old Win98_SE machine
    > and I consider it a very nice bonus that it also
    > "mostly works" under Linux ....

    Thanks for the information. Can you tell us what maximum resolution
    you are getting and what doesn't work when using the Canon BJ-7004
    driver?

    --
    Avoid the VeriSign/Network Solutions domain registration trap!
    Read how Network Solutions (NSI) was involved in stealing our domain name.
    http://inetaddresses.net/about_NSI.html
  16. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    I do think that Canon Photo Paper Pro is about the very best and also
    very expensive. I now use Costco/Kirkland Glossy Photo Paper and I find
    that with OEM ink I get about 98% as good results at 1/7th the cost.
    The basic difference is in the finish. Canon is like a pond frozen
    without wind, a still sheet of glass. Costco is like a pond frozen with
    a 3mph wind.

    I have also tried Epson matte paper and it is just find. I do prefer
    glossy for 4x6 and since I put enlargements behind glass I do not see
    the value of a matte finish.

    Frederick wrote:

    > Vincent wrote:
    >
    >> We were considering buying a Canon PIXMA iP3000 because these are the
    >> first printers we have ever seen that finally quit ripping people off
    >> quite so much on ink.
    >
    >
    > But if you want your prints to last, you should use Canon premium
    > paper. Have you checked the price of Canon premium papers? There is
    > no free lunch.
  17. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    measekite wrote:

    > I do think that Canon Photo Paper Pro is about the very best and also
    > very expensive. I now use Costco/Kirkland Glossy Photo Paper and I find
    > that with OEM ink I get about 98% as good results at 1/7th the cost.
    > The basic difference is in the finish. Canon is like a pond frozen
    > without wind, a still sheet of glass. Costco is like a pond frozen with
    > a 3mph wind.
    >

    Hmmm, very poetic illustrations - and the figure of 98% quoted, obvious-
    ly, was done with scientific measuring instruments ;-). Okay...

    I find that with my non OEM ink I get about 98% as good results at 1/7th
    the cost (Where have I heard that before?). And The basic difference is
    in the finish. Canon inks are like Don McLean's "Vincent" - "Flaming
    flowers that brightly blaze swirling clouds in violet haze". And my
    non-OEM inks are more Donovanesque: "Color in sky prussian blue, scarlet
    fleece changes hue, crimson ball sinks from view." Though some have
    argued that they're more like in the Mamas & Papas song "All the leaves
    are brown and the sky is grey".

    And you cannot buy Canon Photo Paper Pro paper for a song, even though
    its quality (my opinion) is nothing to whistle at. Left unprotected in
    light, Photo Paper Pro prints will quickly turn "A Whiter Shade Of
    Pale". All around, it's no better than any of a dozen or so papers I've
    tried, sometimes worse. And OEM or non OEM ink makes little difference.

    -Taliesyn
  18. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    zakezuke wrote:

    >>But if you want your prints to last, you should use Canon premium paper.
    >>Have you checked the price of Canon premium papers?
    >>There is no free lunch.
    >>
    >>
    >
    >Why not Ilford? Will Ilford not last? I have many friends who used
    >the S520 with Ilford paper which IIRC uses the same ink.
    >
    >

    Some say that Costco/Kirkland Glossy paper made in Switzerland is mgf by
    Ilford. It may even be to the same specs and Gallerie but in any event
    it is real good; especially at 15 cents a sheet.

    >So it's 64c a sheet. Ilford's Galerie fetches about 60c a sheet at
    >the local camera shop. Costco's Kirland paper made by a *cough*
    >unnamed Swiss maker for 15c a sheet.
    >
    >
    >
  19. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    Impmon wrote:
    > On Wed, 08 Jun 2005 14:52:56 +1200, Frederick
    > <nomailplease@nomail.com> wrote:
    >
    >
    >>But if you want your prints to last, you should use Canon premium paper.
    >> Have you checked the price of Canon premium papers? There is no free
    >>lunch.
    >
    >
    > 9 out of 10 times a cheap photo paper will work. Just hang them
    > behind glass to prevent fading due to sunlight exposure.

    http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/0,aid,105461,pg,3,00.asp

    Not up to date with the latest printers, but you still might find it
    interesting.
    I think your 9 out of 10 may be optimistic, but that of course depends
    on what "will work" means.
  20. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    Why Taliesyn, I didn't realize that, in addition to being one of the most
    pragmatic people on this NG with regard to printers, inks, and papers being
    only a means to an end, your writing ebbs and flows as a great river that
    brings life and beauty to all creation. Your alliterative phrases recall
    Hemmingway's descriptions of his surroundings as he participated in a hunt
    or a fishing trip. So glad that Measekite, through his flowery description
    of Canon paper and OEM inks, inspired this gifted response. I have
    actually found the Kirkland Glossy photo paper to be 2.549 (rounded to three
    decimal places) percent better than Canon Photo Paper Pro, and the MIS inks
    to be within the same color spectrum at a 97.554991 accuracy level on my
    $29,000 digital spectrometer. These results, mind you, are obtained at
    1/7th the cost for the paper (per Measekite's extremely accurate
    calculation) and 1/12th the cost for inks as compared to retail, or 1/9th
    the cost if compared to Costco (per measekite's previous posts).


    "Taliesyn" <taliesyn4@netscape.net> wrote in message
    news:11aeb5ahfqh3h74@corp.supernews.com...
    > measekite wrote:
    >
    >> I do think that Canon Photo Paper Pro is about the very best and also
    >> very expensive. I now use Costco/Kirkland Glossy Photo Paper and I find
    >> that with OEM ink I get about 98% as good results at 1/7th the cost. The
    >> basic difference is in the finish. Canon is like a pond frozen without
    >> wind, a still sheet of glass. Costco is like a pond frozen with a 3mph
    >> wind.
    >>
    >
    > Hmmm, very poetic illustrations - and the figure of 98% quoted, obvious-
    > ly, was done with scientific measuring instruments ;-). Okay...
    >
    > I find that with my non OEM ink I get about 98% as good results at 1/7th
    > the cost (Where have I heard that before?). And The basic difference is
    > in the finish. Canon inks are like Don McLean's "Vincent" - "Flaming
    > flowers that brightly blaze swirling clouds in violet haze". And my
    > non-OEM inks are more Donovanesque: "Color in sky prussian blue, scarlet
    > fleece changes hue, crimson ball sinks from view." Though some have
    > argued that they're more like in the Mamas & Papas song "All the leaves
    > are brown and the sky is grey".
    >
    > And you cannot buy Canon Photo Paper Pro paper for a song, even though
    > its quality (my opinion) is nothing to whistle at. Left unprotected in
    > light, Photo Paper Pro prints will quickly turn "A Whiter Shade Of Pale".
    > All around, it's no better than any of a dozen or so papers I've tried,
    > sometimes worse. And OEM or non OEM ink makes little difference.
    >
    > -Taliesyn
  21. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    Burt wrote:
    > Why Taliesyn, I didn't realize that, in addition to being one of the most
    > pragmatic people on this NG with regard to printers, inks, and papers being
    > only a means to an end, your writing ebbs and flows as a great river that
    > brings life and beauty to all creation.

    Then I must thank Measekite, for he truly inspires us all to write
    "creatively".... inspired, perhaps, by his very creative use of logic,
    fact, and misinformation. And besides, who wouldn't be happy with
    printer inks and papers that are "98%" as good as OEM; or in your case,
    a little less at 97.554991 . . . :-)

    -Taliesyn
  22. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    "Vincent" <newsposting1@crel.us> wrote in message
    news:lcrpe.25872$DC2.6751@okepread01...
    > We were considering buying a Canon PIXMA iP3000 because these are the
    > first printers we have ever seen that finally quit ripping people off
    > quite so much on ink. The whole printer ink jet market, until now,
    > has been a scam, making you spend an average of $40-$60 buy new print
    > heads and cartridges for all three colors because one color runs out.
    > That is like having to replace your gas tank, fuel pump, radiator,
    > water pump, windshield washer tank and wiper motors, because you ran
    > out of gas or got too low on radiator fluid. Oh, and by the way,
    > there are no gauges, or transparent tanks, and no way to check the
    > fluid levels. Just one idiot light that says you are low on one of
    > your fluids. Time to replace all of the above to make sure you get
    > the right one.
    >
    > The PIXMA printers are the first ones we have seen that have separate
    > transparent cartridges for each color that you can see the ink level
    > in and are easy to refill or replace without buying a new print head.
    >

    Wow! Where have you been ???
    Canon printers have offered these individual tanks for many years including
    almost all S and I series and many BJC's.


    > However, Canon is trying to make sure you pay royalties to Apple or
    > pay Microsoft to run on an insecure system full of spyware in order to
    > use their printers. There is no printer control language (PCL)
    > documentation or PPD files available. I called Canon's tech support
    > at 1-800-828-4040 and they refused to provide any technical
    > documentation to run their printers. Charlie, the supervisor I spoke
    > with, said that they did not have that information, and that to have it
    > would be of no use to them. I said, "Having the PCL documentation to
    > provide to people in the open source community so that they can write
    > drivers and open the market of millions of potential customers for
    > your printers from the NetBSD, FreeBSD, OpenBSD, and Linux communities
    > is of no use to you?"

    Well considering 'PCL' is HP's proprietary control code language, and Canon
    BubbleJets use a BJ print Engine (not HP).
    Charlie was right. Serious software developers also rarely ring up the
    technical support center in search of firmware/software code and would
    instead contact corporate R&D


    >For the most part, he kept evading questions
    > about his statement. He also said they write their own drivers even
    > though he kept claiming that they did not have the specifications to
    > write drivers. He said the printers are made in Japan and they are
    > the only ones who have the driver documentation. Yet he also claimed
    > to have no email address or phone number to contact the branch in
    > Japan.
    >

    He said the Tech Support Center does not have the information available (and
    why would they). I hardly see that as 'evading questions'
    www.canon.com .... click on the map for Japan.

    > In other words, Canon is boycotting the open source community and
    > trying to make you run only on proprietory commercial platforms in
    > order to use their printers.
    >

    No, it is called quality control and protection of intellectual property
    rights.
    Give Bill over at Microsoft a call and say "Hey Bill, Joe Blow here...how
    bout getting that source code for your OS so I can write a couple pieces of
    software". Manufactures (including Canon) have Developer programs. If you
    want what is needed contact corporate, and request information on what it
    takes to get on board.
  23. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    "ray" <ray@zianet.com> wrote in message
    news:pan.2005.06.08.00.51.16.59858@zianet.com...
    > On Tue, 07 Jun 2005 19:44:15 -0500, Vincent wrote:
    >
    >> We were considering buying a Canon PIXMA iP3000 because these are the
    >> first printers we have ever seen that finally quit ripping people off
    >> quite so much on ink. The whole printer ink jet market, until now,
    >> has been a scam, making you spend an average of $40-$60 buy new print
    >> heads and cartridges for all three colors because one color runs out.
    >> That is like having to replace your gas tank, fuel pump, radiator,
    >> water pump, windshield washer tank and wiper motors, because you ran
    >> out of gas or got too low on radiator fluid. Oh, and by the way,
    >> there are no gauges, or transparent tanks, and no way to check the
    >> fluid levels. Just one idiot light that says you are low on one of
    >> your fluids. Time to replace all of the above to make sure you get
    >> the right one.
    >>
    >> The PIXMA printers are the first ones we have seen that have separate
    >> transparent cartridges for each color that you can see the ink level
    >> in and are easy to refill or replace without buying a new print head.
    >
    > I recently bought an Epson Photo R320 - it has six individual ink tanks,
    > and there is a utility 'mtink' which shows ink levels on the computer.
    > Canon is well known in the Linux community for making boat anchors.

    That's odd, I know several folks with Canon printers on their Linux boxes.
  24. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    Burt wrote:

    >Why Taliesyn, I didn't realize that, in addition to being one of the most
    >pragmatic people on this NG with regard to printers, inks, and papers being
    >only a means to an end, your writing ebbs and flows as a great river that
    >brings life and beauty to all creation. Your alliterative phrases recall
    >Hemmingway's descriptions of his surroundings as he participated in a hunt
    >or a fishing trip. So glad that Measekite, through his flowery description
    >of Canon paper and OEM inks, inspired this gifted response. I have
    >actually found the Kirkland Glossy photo paper to be 2.549
    >

    Will you please stop talking about your IQ?

    >(rounded to three
    >decimal places) percent better than Canon Photo Paper Pro, and the MIS inks
    >to be within the same color spectrum at a 97.554991 accuracy level on my
    >$29,000 digital spectrometer. These results, mind you, are obtained at
    >1/7th the cost for the paper (per Measekite's extremely accurate
    >calculation) and 1/12th the cost for inks as compared to retail, or 1/9th
    >the cost if compared to Costco (per measekite's previous posts).
    >
    >
    >"Taliesyn" <taliesyn4@netscape.net> wrote in message
    >news:11aeb5ahfqh3h74@corp.supernews.com...
    >
    >
    >>measekite wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>>I do think that Canon Photo Paper Pro is about the very best and also
    >>>very expensive. I now use Costco/Kirkland Glossy Photo Paper and I find
    >>>that with OEM ink I get about 98% as good results at 1/7th the cost. The
    >>>basic difference is in the finish. Canon is like a pond frozen without
    >>>wind, a still sheet of glass. Costco is like a pond frozen with a 3mph
    >>>wind.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>Hmmm, very poetic illustrations - and the figure of 98% quoted, obvious-
    >>ly, was done with scientific measuring instruments ;-). Okay...
    >>
    >>I find that with my non OEM ink I get about 98% as good results at 1/7th
    >>the cost (Where have I heard that before?). And The basic difference is
    >>in the finish. Canon inks are like Don McLean's "Vincent" - "Flaming
    >>flowers that brightly blaze swirling clouds in violet haze". And my
    >>non-OEM inks are more Donovanesque: "Color in sky prussian blue, scarlet
    >>fleece changes hue, crimson ball sinks from view." Though some have
    >>argued that they're more like in the Mamas & Papas song "All the leaves
    >>are brown and the sky is grey".
    >>
    >>And you cannot buy Canon Photo Paper Pro paper for a song, even though
    >>its quality (my opinion) is nothing to whistle at. Left unprotected in
    >>light, Photo Paper Pro prints will quickly turn "A Whiter Shade Of Pale".
    >>All around, it's no better than any of a dozen or so papers I've tried,
    >>sometimes worse. And OEM or non OEM ink makes little difference.
    >>
    >>-Taliesyn
    >>
    >>
    >
    >
    >
    >
  25. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    measekite wrote:


    >> Kirkland Glossy photo paper to be 2.549
    >
    >
    > Will you please stop talking about your IQ?
    >

    hehehe...at least he has one to measure. :-)
    Frank
  26. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    "Taliesyn" <taliesyn4@netscape.net> wrote in message
    news:11aegcjb64i8380@corp.supernews.com...
    > Burt wrote:
    >> Why Taliesyn, I didn't realize that, in addition to being one of the most
    >> pragmatic people on this NG with regard to printers, inks, and papers
    >> being only a means to an end, your writing ebbs and flows as a great
    >> river that brings life and beauty to all creation.
    >
    > Then I must thank Measekite, for he truly inspires us all to write
    > "creatively".... inspired, perhaps, by his very creative use of logic,
    > fact, and misinformation. And besides, who wouldn't be happy with
    > printer inks and papers that are "98%" as good as OEM; or in your case,
    > a little less at 97.554991 . . . :-)
    >
    > -Taliesyn

    And that was rounded to six decimal places. Sorry for the gross inaccuracy
    induced by rounding.
  27. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    PC Medic wrote:
    >
    > "Vincent" <newsposting1@crel.us> wrote in message
    > news:lcrpe.25872$DC2.6751@okepread01...
    >> We were considering buying a Canon PIXMA iP3000 because these are the
    >> first printers we have ever seen that finally quit ripping people off
    >> quite so much on ink. The whole printer ink jet market, until now,
    >> has been a scam, making you spend an average of $40-$60 buy new print
    >> heads and cartridges for all three colors because one color runs out.
    >> That is like having to replace your gas tank, fuel pump, radiator,
    >> water pump, windshield washer tank and wiper motors, because you ran
    >> out of gas or got too low on radiator fluid. Oh, and by the way,
    >> there are no gauges, or transparent tanks, and no way to check the
    >> fluid levels. Just one idiot light that says you are low on one of
    >> your fluids. Time to replace all of the above to make sure you get
    >> the right one.
    >>
    >> The PIXMA printers are the first ones we have seen that have separate
    >> transparent cartridges for each color that you can see the ink level
    >> in and are easy to refill or replace without buying a new print head.
    >>
    >
    > Wow! Where have you been ???
    > Canon printers have offered these individual tanks for many years
    > including almost all S and I series and many BJC's.

    Are they transparent, so you can see the ink level, and separated from
    the print heads, with no electronics in the cartridge to make it
    expensive, with the cartridges and refills available at a reasonable
    price? If you can name other models that have been around for a while
    that do, then I stand corrected. Until now, the PIXMA's are the first
    ones I have seen.


    >> However, Canon is trying to make sure you pay royalties to Apple or
    >> pay Microsoft to run on an insecure system full of spyware in order to
    >> use their printers. There is no printer control language (PCL)
    >> documentation or PPD files available. I called Canon's tech support
    >> at 1-800-828-4040 and they refused to provide any technical
    >> documentation to run their printers. Charlie, the supervisor I spoke
    >> with, said that they did not have that information, and that to have it
    >> would be of no use to them. I said, "Having the PCL documentation to
    >> provide to people in the open source community so that they can write
    >> drivers and open the market of millions of potential customers for
    >> your printers from the NetBSD, FreeBSD, OpenBSD, and Linux communities
    >> is of no use to you?"
    >
    > Well considering 'PCL' is HP's proprietary control code language, and
    > Canon BubbleJets use a BJ print Engine (not HP).

    Yes, I know every manufacturer has their own term for it. I referred
    to it as a PCL in a generic sense because, even though HP uses it, it
    was the best term I could think of without writing a sentence to
    explain I was talking about a language to control a printer every time
    I mentioned it.


    > Charlie was right. Serious software developers also rarely ring up the
    > technical support center in search of firmware/software code and would
    > instead contact corporate R&D

    Yes, and why is that? Because we are too passive about just accepting
    that it is ok for technical support to not have any technical
    information to give you. If they had said, sure you can have the PCL
    docs and PPD file, what's your email address? The time they spent on
    the phone with me would have been about 1 minute rather than 15 or 20
    minutes and I would have gone right out and bought one of their
    printers. Better yet, if the information was on their web site, they
    would not have had a support call from me at all. Which method of
    operation sounds more profitable?


    > >For the most part, he kept evading questions
    >> about his statement. He also said they write their own drivers even
    >> though he kept claiming that they did not have the specifications to
    >> write drivers. He said the printers are made in Japan and they are
    >> the only ones who have the driver documentation. Yet he also claimed
    >> to have no email address or phone number to contact the branch in
    >> Japan.
    >>
    >
    > He said the Tech Support Center does not have the information available
    > (and why would they). I hardly see that as 'evading questions'
    > www.canon.com .... click on the map for Japan.

    That is the attitude I am trying to get people to change. The
    question should be, "why wouldn't they?". All it means to them is
    more sales. As long as people do not expect to get such information,
    these companies are never going to change.

    I tried to get corporate R&D contact information from the rep as well,
    but he claimed not to have that either. Without spending half the day
    looking (so I maybe I over looked it) I could not find any email
    addresses on the main canon site and the only contact info I found
    from the Japan link was here

    http://www.canon.com/about/group/list.html

    This was from their "Canon Group Directory" link. It is all over seas
    numbers and no email. So who do you call,

    Headquarters, Yako Development Center, Tamagawa Plant, ... ?

    I could probably rule out the Optics R&D Center.

    I guess I could spend a bunch of time and money calling over seas,
    starting with the number for Headquarters, and get referred from
    department to department until I get the right people. However, I am
    not willing to do that because, after spending the time and money, I
    would would most likely be unsuccessful. If they are willing to
    provide the information it should be available from the American web
    site and/or the America tech support line.


    >> In other words, Canon is boycotting the open source community and
    >> trying to make you run only on proprietory commercial platforms in
    >> order to use their printers.
    >>
    >
    > No, it is called quality control and protection of intellectual property
    > rights.
    > Give Bill over at Microsoft a call and say "Hey Bill, Joe Blow here...how
    > bout getting that source code for your OS so I can write a couple pieces
    > of software". Manufactures (including Canon) have Developer programs. If
    > you want what is needed contact corporate, and request information on what
    > it takes to get on board.

    That example has nothing to do with the situation. I am not asking
    Canon to release the source to their microcode or the equations to
    their gate arrays. Without the technical information to communicate
    with their printer, it is useless. It is like buying a Hayes modem
    and not having any information on the Hayes command set. If their
    support department gets enough calls requesting such information,
    saying they are not going to buy their product without it, then
    eventually it might get it through their thick heads.


    --
    Avoid the VeriSign/Network Solutions domain registration trap!
    Read how Network Solutions (NSI) was involved in stealing our domain name.
    http://inetaddresses.net/about_NSI.html
  28. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    > If you can name other models that have been around for a while
    > that do, then I stand corrected. Until now, the PIXMA's are the first
    > ones I have seen.

    Ummm, Epson. They are not transparent but are simply tanks like canon.
    They are chipped to keep track of ink count and stop working when the
    drop count hits a certain point. Easy to find 3rd party ink,
    refillable carts, or external ink tanks. I wasn't happen with my Epson
    but it's an option. Some Brothers featured this as well but i'm not up
    to date on their current models.

    > Yes, and why is that? Because we are too passive about just accepting
    > that it is ok for technical support to not have any technical information to give you

    Has consumer technical support ever been useful? The job of consumer
    level technical support is limited to what button to press, what
    software to install, and all things that apply to general supported
    use. They offer NO technical support for Linux, only some drivers on
    the Japanese site. This is pretty spiffy. Think 10 years ago when
    your only options were pretty much Postscript, HP, or dotmatrix.


    > That is the attitude I am trying to get people to change. The
    > question should be, "why wouldn't they?". All it means to them is
    > more sales. As long as people do not expect to get such information,
    > these companies are never going to change.

    More sales 'eh. Don't get me wrong, I agree with you, but to them they
    likely feel that the release of propriority information would run the
    risk of devaluing their products. Why but a Canon when you can use the
    software they spend good money developing on some other printer.

    Also you are trying to get world class support on consumer grade
    equipment with MSRP of under $200. And let's face it, it's not worth
    it. Now if you were to talk about the image runner series you get to
    use this http://canon.codehost.com/.

    I'm all for open standards, documented protocals, and freedom of
    information. But at the end of the day it's their choice to do this or
    not,, and it's your choice to buy it or not.

    > I tried to get corporate R&D contact information from the rep as well,
    > but he claimed not to have that either.

    Outside of calling Japan, you gotta learn how to play phone tag. Gotta
    learn how to say "well I've been to that department and they refered me
    to you". This applies whether you are trying to get proprioirty
    information or a trivial part.

    > However, I am not willing to do that because, after spending the time and money,

    Tough. They are under no moral or ethical obligation to provide you
    with anything for free. They're pretty cool providing what they do for
    free.

    > I am not asking Canon to release the source to their microcode or the equations
    > to their gate arrays. Without the technical information to communicate
    > with their printer, it is useless.

    I find my Canon ip3000 very useful. without any technical information
    what so ever.. I plugged it in and it prints. Does it's job perfectly
    well. Plenty of people using it under linux using the stock BJ drivers
    or the one canon provides. If that's inadquate there is always
    Turboprint. Sure it costs $40, but that is a very legit option. You
    could get ultra fancy and run on a platform that is supported and use
    post script emulation. Or if you don't like any off these soultions
    pick a printer that has the features and docucumentation available to
    you. In the end that's the only language any company understands.

    > It is like buying a Hayes modem and not having any information on the
    > Hayes command set.

    Or better yet, a modem that isn't hayes compatable. Met a few of
    those. Not so bad with the supplied terminal software and manual.
    Pretty useless without it. So don't buy one.
  29. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    Taliesyn wrote:

    > Burt wrote:
    >
    >> Why Taliesyn, I didn't realize that, in addition to being one of the
    >> most pragmatic people on this NG with regard to printers, inks, and
    >> papers being only a means to an end, your writing ebbs and flows as a
    >> great river that brings life and beauty to all creation.
    >
    >
    > Then I must thank Measekite, for he truly inspires us all to write
    > "creatively".... inspired, perhaps, by his very creative use of logic,
    > fact, and misinformation. And besides, who wouldn't be happy with
    > printer inks and papers that are "98%" as good as OEM; or in your case,
    > a little less at 97.554991 . . . :-)
    >
    > -Taliesyn


    You need a haircut.
  30. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    On Wed, 08 Jun 2005 14:52:56 +1200, Frederick
    <nomailplease@nomail.com> wrote:

    >Vincent wrote:
    >> We were considering buying a Canon PIXMA iP3000 because these are the
    >> first printers we have ever seen that finally quit ripping people off
    >> quite so much on ink.
    >
    >But if you want your prints to last, you should use Canon premium paper.
    > Have you checked the price of Canon premium papers? There is no free
    >lunch.

    If you want prints to last you shouldn't be using a dye based and, in
    particular, a Canon, printer in the first place.

    --

    Hecate - The Real One
    Hecate@newsguy.com
    Fashion: Buying things you don't need, with money
    you don't have, to impress people you don't like...
  31. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    "Vincent" <newsposting1@crel.us> wrote in message
    news:E8Mpe.25914$DC2.3405@okepread01...

    <snipped>
    > Are they transparent, so you can see the ink level, and separated from
    > the print heads, with no electronics in the cartridge to make it
    > expensive, with the cartridges and refills available at a reasonable
    > price? If you can name other models that have been around for a while
    > that do, then I stand corrected. Until now, the PIXMA's are the first
    > ones I have seen.

    Absolutely - and that includes the vast array of aftermarket cartridges
    available as well! You definitely will stand corrected on this one. The
    Pixma's may have been the first ones you've seen, but that doesn't mean they
    haven't been around. Ever see a child cover their eyes and say "you can't
    see me because I have my eyes closed"? Canon has used these tanks since the
    mid 1990's (maybe longer). As to recent models I've owned - BJC-3000 mfg'd
    1999, s820 from 2002, i950 from 2003 and iP4000 from 2004, all used BCI-3 or
    BCI-6 tanks. As to the issues with PCL and why Canon consumer tech support
    couldn't speak to that has been more than adequately addressed by PC Medic.

    Ron

    <snipped>
  32. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    Burt wrote:
    > Why Taliesyn, I didn't realize that, in addition to being one of the most
    > pragmatic people on this NG with regard to printers, inks, and papers being
    > only a means to an end, your writing ebbs and flows as a great river that
    > brings life and beauty to all creation. Your alliterative phrases recall
    > Hemmingway's descriptions of his surroundings as he participated in a hunt
    > or a fishing trip. So glad that Measekite, through his flowery description
    > of Canon paper and OEM inks, inspired this gifted response. I have
    > actually found the Kirkland Glossy photo paper to be 2.549 (rounded to three
    > decimal places) percent better than Canon Photo Paper Pro, and the MIS inks
    > to be within the same color spectrum at a 97.554991 accuracy level on my
    > $29,000 digital spectrometer. These results, mind you, are obtained at
    > 1/7th the cost for the paper (per Measekite's extremely accurate
    > calculation) and 1/12th the cost for inks as compared to retail, or 1/9th
    > the cost if compared to Costco (per measekite's previous posts).
    >

    Burt I can't agree with you. I have the same setup and at best you
    are correct only to second decimal place. Anything beyond 2 decimal
    places has to be speculation.

    Mickey
  33. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    "Mickey" <mickey@webster.com> wrote in message
    news:11agt1kbk0tdne5@corp.supernews.com...
    > Burt wrote:
    >> Why Taliesyn, I didn't realize that, in addition to being one of the most
    >> pragmatic people on this NG with regard to printers, inks, and papers
    >> being only a means to an end, your writing ebbs and flows as a great
    >> river that brings life and beauty to all creation. Your alliterative
    >> phrases recall Hemmingway's descriptions of his surroundings as he
    >> participated in a hunt or a fishing trip. So glad that Measekite,
    >> through his flowery description of Canon paper and OEM inks, inspired
    >> this gifted response. I have actually found the Kirkland Glossy photo
    >> paper to be 2.549 (rounded to three decimal places) percent better than
    >> Canon Photo Paper Pro, and the MIS inks to be within the same color
    >> spectrum at a 97.554991 accuracy level on my $29,000 digital
    >> spectrometer. These results, mind you, are obtained at 1/7th the cost
    >> for the paper (per Measekite's extremely accurate calculation) and 1/12th
    >> the cost for inks as compared to retail, or 1/9th the cost if compared to
    >> Costco (per measekite's previous posts).
    >>
    >
    > Burt I can't agree with you. I have the same setup and at best you are
    > correct only to second decimal place. Anything beyond 2 decimal places
    > has to be speculation.
    >
    > Mickey

    Mickey - Since I am not vying for the exalted position of Troll of the Week,
    and one Village Idiot is enough for one NG, I will refrain from doing battle
    with you on this very critical and important issue. Although it is
    difficult for me to withhold the standard childish schoolyard taunts, the
    innane one-liners, the obscene written equivalents of flipping the bird, and
    the sexual defamation of all your female relatives, I will observe the rules
    of civility that are supposed to apply to newsgroup postings. But only 2
    decimal places? For a subject that cries out for extremely accurate (as
    well as poetic) reporting, 2 decimal places puts these statments in the
    questionable realm of simple observation! Would you want someone to
    recommend photo papers and aftermarket inks simply on the basis that they
    look damned good and don't harm your printer? Where's your precise
    investigative drive? What deprivation have you suffered in your youthful
    history that that would bring you to the point where you eschew iambic
    pentameter and alliterative, flowery passages in favor of the prosaic
    statement, "Anything beyond 2 decimal places has to be speculation." Ah, if
    only Cyrano had crafted the words and spoken for you!

    Burt (aka Burtie Furtie, Reverend, the Pope, Fotofreek, and president of the
    Aftermarket Club)
  34. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    Mickey wrote:

    > Burt wrote:
    >
    >> Why Taliesyn, I didn't realize that, in addition to being one of the
    >> most pragmatic people on this NG with regard to printers, inks, and
    >> papers being only a means to an end, your writing ebbs and flows as a
    >> great river that brings life and beauty to all creation. Your
    >> alliterative phrases recall Hemmingway's descriptions of his
    >> surroundings as he participated in a hunt or a fishing trip. So glad
    >> that Measekite, through his flowery description of Canon paper and
    >> OEM inks, inspired this gifted response. I have actually found the
    >> Kirkland Glossy photo paper to be 2.549 (rounded to three decimal
    >> places) percent better than Canon Photo Paper Pro, and the MIS inks
    >> to be within the same color spectrum at a 97.554991 accuracy level on
    >> my $29,000 digital spectrometer. These results, mind you, are
    >> obtained at 1/7th the cost for the paper (per Measekite's extremely
    >> accurate calculation) and 1/12th the cost for inks as compared to
    >> retail, or 1/9th the cost if compared to Costco (per measekite's
    >> previous posts).
    >>
    >
    > Burt I can't agree with you. I have the same setup and at best you
    > are correct only to second decimal place. Anything beyond 2 decimal
    > places has to be speculation.
    >
    > Mickey Mouse
  35. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    On Wed, 08 Jun 2005 19:33:53 -0500, Vincent <newsposting1@crel.us>
    wrote:

    >>> The PIXMA printers are the first ones we have seen that have separate
    >>> transparent cartridges for each color that you can see the ink level
    >>> in and are easy to refill or replace without buying a new print head.
    >>>
    >>
    >> Wow! Where have you been ???
    >> Canon printers have offered these individual tanks for many years
    >> including almost all S and I series and many BJC's.
    >
    >Are they transparent, so you can see the ink level, and separated from
    >the print heads, with no electronics in the cartridge to make it
    >expensive, with the cartridges and refills available at a reasonable
    >price? If you can name other models that have been around for a while
    >that do, then I stand corrected. Until now, the PIXMA's are the first
    >ones I have seen.
    >
    We had one, oh, 5-7 years ago. There were no refills used on it and we
    ditched it as not worth having after about 18 months. So, yes, these
    clear tanks have been around for a long time.

    --

    Hecate - The Real One
    Hecate@newsguy.com
    Fashion: Buying things you don't need, with money
    you don't have, to impress people you don't like...
  36. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    My hope is that one day legislation requires all computer peripheral
    manufacturers to guarantee their products will be supported with drivers
    for a certain number of years (perhaps 7 might be reasonable), so that
    should OSs change the drivers will support the current OS.

    At one time, I suggested to one OS producer that they require this of a
    manufacturers in order for them to get the logo certification to
    advertise their product as "compatible" with the OS. That didn't go
    over very well, so the next step might be for this to be required by law.

    Currently, it is way too easy for a manufacturer to orphan a product by
    never updating drivers for newer OSs or other features that come along.

    Makes for way too much e-trash.

    Art

    PC Medic wrote:


    >
    > No, it is called quality control and protection of intellectual property
    > rights.
    > Give Bill over at Microsoft a call and say "Hey Bill, Joe Blow here...how
    > bout getting that source code for your OS so I can write a couple pieces of
    > software". Manufactures (including Canon) have Developer programs. If you
    > want what is needed contact corporate, and request information on what it
    > takes to get on board.
    >
    >
    >
  37. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    Burt wrote:
    > "Mickey" <mickey@webster.com> wrote in message

    > Mickey - Since I am not vying for the exalted position of Troll of the Week,
    > and one Village Idiot is enough for one NG, I will refrain from doing battle
    > with you on this very critical and important issue. Although it is
    > difficult for me to withhold the standard childish schoolyard taunts, the
    > innane one-liners, the obscene written equivalents of flipping the bird, and
    > the sexual defamation of all your female relatives, I will observe the rules
    > of civility that are supposed to apply to newsgroup postings. But only 2
    > decimal places? For a subject that cries out for extremely accurate (as
    > well as poetic) reporting, 2 decimal places puts these statments in the
    > questionable realm of simple observation! Would you want someone to
    > recommend photo papers and aftermarket inks simply on the basis that they
    > look damned good and don't harm your printer? Where's your precise
    > investigative drive? What deprivation have you suffered in your youthful
    > history that that would bring you to the point where you eschew iambic
    > pentameter and alliterative, flowery passages in favor of the prosaic
    > statement, "Anything beyond 2 decimal places has to be speculation." Ah, if
    > only Cyrano had crafted the words and spoken for you!
    >
    > Burt (aka Burtie Furtie, Reverend, the Pope, Fotofreek, and president of the
    > Aftermarket Club)
    >
    >

    Lighten up Burt, I was fooling with you. You're letting the dufus get
    to you way too much. Oh, we've never disagreed on printer, ink
    supplier or paper.

    Mickey
  38. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    Arthur Entlich wrote:

    > My hope is that one day legislation requires all computer peripheral
    > manufacturers to guarantee their products will be supported with
    > drivers for a certain number of years (perhaps 7 might be reasonable),
    > so that should OSs change the drivers will support the current OS.


    And I think the ink industry also ought to be regulated.

    >
    > At one time, I suggested to one OS producer that they require this of
    > a manufacturers in order for them to get the logo certification to
    > advertise their product as "compatible" with the OS. That didn't go
    > over very well, so the next step might be for this to be required by law.


    The same should be for AfterMarket inks.

    >
    > Currently, it is way too easy for a manufacturer to orphan a product
    > by never updating drivers for newer OSs or other features that come
    > along.
    >
    > Makes for way too much e-trash.
    >
    > Art
    >
    > PC Medic wrote:
    >
    >
    >>
    >> No, it is called quality control and protection of intellectual
    >> property rights.
    >> Give Bill over at Microsoft a call and say "Hey Bill, Joe Blow
    >> here...how bout getting that source code for your OS so I can write a
    >> couple pieces of software". Manufactures (including Canon) have
    >> Developer programs. If you want what is needed contact corporate, and
    >> request information on what it takes to get on board.
    >>
    >>
    >>
  39. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    measekite wrote:


    >
    >
    > And I think the ink industry also ought to be regulated.
    >

    >
    > The same should be for AfterMarket inks.

    You're a real idiot aren't you. Regulating the ink industry means you
    have to start the regulation with the actual contract ink manufacturers.
    Just where do you think they are located? Hint, English is not their
    native tongue. The American government could never have any substantial
    control over the ink industry and none is needed.
    You're are still totally clueless. You post just to see your stupid sig
    name on your monitor.
    Get a frigging like!
    Looser.
    Frank
  40. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    Frank wrote:

    > measekite wrote:
    >
    >
    >>
    >>
    >> And I think the ink industry also ought to be regulated.
    >>
    >
    >>
    >> The same should be for AfterMarket inks.
    >
    >
    > You're a real idiot aren't you. Regulating the ink industry means you
    > have to start the regulation with the actual contract ink
    > manufacturers. Just where do you think they are located? Hint, English
    > is not their native tongue. The American government could never have
    > any substantial control over the ink industry and none is needed.
    > You're are still totally clueless. You post just to see your stupid
    > sig name on your monitor.
    > Get a frigging like!
    > Looser.
    > Frank


    HEY DUMMY. ALL YOU NEED TO DO IS REGULATE THE SALES AND MARKETING END
    OF IT. WHAT CANNOT BE SOLD WILL NOT BE MANUFACTURED.

    YOU ARE REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY STUPID. YOU MUST DRIVE A HUNDAI OR
    A YUGO.
  41. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    measekite wrote:

    >
    >
    >
    > HEY DUMMY. ALL YOU NEED TO DO IS REGULATE THE SALES AND MARKETING END
    > OF IT. WHAT CANNOT BE SOLD WILL NOT BE MANUFACTURED.
    > YOU ARE REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY STUPID. YOU MUST DRIVE A HUNDAI OR
    > A YUGO.

    That statement shows your total lack of knowledge about import,
    distribution and labeling laws which doesn't surprise me or probably
    anyone else in this ng.
    Get lost. You have nothing of value to add to this discussion and you
    have never helped anyone in this ng with your lying bullshit and
    misinformation.
    You have real problems and need to seek immediate help.
    Frank
  42. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    Frank wrote:

    > measekite wrote:
    >
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> HEY DUMMY. ALL YOU NEED TO DO IS REGULATE THE SALES AND MARKETING
    >> END OF IT. WHAT CANNOT BE SOLD WILL NOT BE MANUFACTURED.
    >> YOU ARE REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY STUPID. YOU MUST DRIVE A HUNDAI
    >> OR A YUGO.
    >
    >
    > That statement shows your total lack of knowledge about import,
    > distribution and labeling laws which doesn't surprise me or probably
    > anyone else in this ng.
    > Get lost. You have nothing of value to add to this discussion and you
    > have never helped anyone in this ng with your lying bullshit and
    > misinformation.
    > You have real problems and need to seek immediate help.
    > Frank


    SOS
  43. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    measekite wrote:
    >
    >
    > Frank wrote:
    >
    >> measekite wrote:
    >>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> HEY DUMMY. ALL YOU NEED TO DO IS REGULATE THE SALES AND MARKETING
    >>> END OF IT. WHAT CANNOT BE SOLD WILL NOT BE MANUFACTURED.
    >>> YOU ARE REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY STUPID. YOU MUST DRIVE A HUNDAI
    >>> OR A YUGO.
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> That statement shows your total lack of knowledge about import,
    >> distribution and labeling laws which doesn't surprise me or probably
    >> anyone else in this ng.
    >> Get lost. You have nothing of value to add to this discussion and you
    >> have never helped anyone in this ng with your lying bullshit and
    >> misinformation.
    >> You have real problems and need to seek immediate help.
    >> Frank
    >
    >
    >
    > SOS

    hahaha...Got'cha huh! When ever you paint yourself into a corner you
    always reply with 3 grade level replies.
    Well, you're already a done deal. You're now simply nothing more than ng
    entertainment.
    Frank
  44. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    I was being light and continuing to make fun of our least favorite
    participant. Not you, Mickey. We're on the same page.

    "Mickey" <mickey@webster.com> wrote in message
    news:11ajihg98janfbb@corp.supernews.com...
    > Burt wrote:
    >> "Mickey" <mickey@webster.com> wrote in message
    >
    >> Mickey - Since I am not vying for the exalted position of Troll of the
    >> Week, and one Village Idiot is enough for one NG, I will refrain from
    >> doing battle with you on this very critical and important issue.
    >> Although it is difficult for me to withhold the standard childish
    >> schoolyard taunts, the innane one-liners, the obscene written equivalents
    >> of flipping the bird, and the sexual defamation of all your female
    >> relatives, I will observe the rules of civility that are supposed to
    >> apply to newsgroup postings. But only 2 decimal places? For a subject
    >> that cries out for extremely accurate (as well as poetic) reporting, 2
    >> decimal places puts these statments in the questionable realm of simple
    >> observation! Would you want someone to recommend photo papers and
    >> aftermarket inks simply on the basis that they look damned good and don't
    >> harm your printer? Where's your precise investigative drive? What
    >> deprivation have you suffered in your youthful history that that would
    >> bring you to the point where you eschew iambic pentameter and
    >> alliterative, flowery passages in favor of the prosaic statement,
    >> "Anything beyond 2 decimal places has to be speculation." Ah, if only
    >> Cyrano had crafted the words and spoken for you!
    >>
    >> Burt (aka Burtie Furtie, Reverend, the Pope, Fotofreek, and president of
    >> the Aftermarket Club)
    >
    > Lighten up Burt, I was fooling with you. You're letting the dufus get to
    > you way too much. Oh, we've never disagreed on printer, ink supplier or
    > paper.
    >
    > Mickey
  45. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    :-*

    Burt wrote:

    >I was being light and continuing to make fun of our least favorite
    >participant. Not you, Mickey Mouse. We're on the same page.
    >
    >"Mickey" <mickey@webster.com> wrote in message
    >news:11ajihg98janfbb@corp.supernews.com...
    >
    >
    >>Burt wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>>"Mickey" <mickey@webster.com> wrote in message
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>Mickey - Since I am not vying for the exalted position of Troll of the
    >>>Week, and one Village Idiot is enough for one NG, I will refrain from
    >>>doing battle with you on this very critical and important issue.
    >>>Although it is difficult for me to withhold the standard childish
    >>>schoolyard taunts, the innane one-liners, the obscene written equivalents
    >>>of flipping the bird, and the sexual defamation of all your female
    >>>relatives, I will observe the rules of civility that are supposed to
    >>>apply to newsgroup postings. But only 2 decimal places? For a subject
    >>>that cries out for extremely accurate (as well as poetic) reporting, 2
    >>>decimal places puts these statments in the questionable realm of simple
    >>>observation! Would you want someone to recommend photo papers and
    >>>aftermarket inks simply on the basis that they look damned good and don't
    >>>harm your printer? Where's your precise investigative drive? What
    >>>deprivation have you suffered in your youthful history that that would
    >>>bring you to the point where you eschew iambic pentameter and
    >>>alliterative, flowery passages in favor of the prosaic statement,
    >>>"Anything beyond 2 decimal places has to be speculation." Ah, if only
    >>>Cyrano had crafted the words and spoken for you!
    >>>
    >>>Burt (aka Burtie Furtie, Reverend, the Pope, Fotofreek, and president of
    >>>the Aftermarket Club)
    >>>
    >>>
    >>Lighten up Burt, I was fooling with you. You're letting the dufus get to
    >>you way too much. Oh, we've never disagreed on printer, ink supplier or
    >>paper.
    >>
    >>Mickey
    >>
    >>
    >
    >
    >
    >
  46. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    Mickey wrote:

    > Burt wrote:
    >
    >> "Mickey" <mickey@webster.com> wrote in message
    >
    >
    >> Mickey - Since I am not vying for the exalted position of Troll of
    >> the Week, and one Village Idiot is enough for one NG, I will refrain
    >> from doing battle with you on this very critical and important issue.
    >

    8-)

    >> Although it is difficult for me to withhold the standard childish
    >> schoolyard taunts, the innane one-liners, the obscene written
    >> equivalents of flipping the bird, and the sexual defamation of all
    >> your female relatives, I will observe the rules of civility that are
    >> supposed to apply to newsgroup postings.
    >

    8-)

    >> But only 2 decimal places? For a subject that cries out for
    >> extremely accurate (as well as poetic) reporting, 2 decimal places
    >> puts these statments in the questionable realm of simple
    >> observation! Would you want someone to recommend photo papers and
    >> aftermarket inks simply on the basis that they look damned good and
    >> don't harm your printer? Where's your precise investigative drive?
    >> What deprivation have you suffered in your youthful history that that
    >> would bring you to the point where you eschew iambic pentameter and
    >> alliterative, flowery passages in favor of the prosaic statement,
    >> "Anything beyond 2 decimal places has to be speculation." Ah, if
    >> only Cyrano had crafted the words and spoken for you!
    >>
    >> Burt (aka Burtie Furtie, Reverend, the Pope, Fotofreek, and president
    >> of the Aftermarket Club)
    >>
    >
    > Lighten up Burt, I was fooling with you. You're letting the dufus get
    > to you way too much.


    :-D

    > Oh, we've never disagreed on printer, ink supplier or paper.
    >
    > Mickey
  47. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    measekite wrote:
    >
    >
    > Mickey wrote:
    >
    >> Burt wrote:
    >>
    >>> "Mickey" <mickey@webster.com> wrote in message
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>> Mickey - Since I am not vying for the exalted position of Troll of
    >>> the Week, and one Village Idiot is enough for one NG, I will refrain
    >>> from doing battle with you on this very critical and important issue.
    >>
    >>
    >
    > 8-)
    >
    >>> Although it is difficult for me to withhold the standard childish
    >>> schoolyard taunts, the innane one-liners, the obscene written
    >>> equivalents of flipping the bird, and the sexual defamation of all
    >>> your female relatives, I will observe the rules of civility that are
    >>> supposed to apply to newsgroup postings.
    >>
    >>
    >
    > 8-)
    >
    >>> But only 2 decimal places? For a subject that cries out for
    >>> extremely accurate (as well as poetic) reporting, 2 decimal places
    >>> puts these statments in the questionable realm of simple
    >>> observation! Would you want someone to recommend photo papers and
    >>> aftermarket inks simply on the basis that they look damned good and
    >>> don't harm your printer? Where's your precise investigative drive?
    >>> What deprivation have you suffered in your youthful history that that
    >>> would bring you to the point where you eschew iambic pentameter and
    >>> alliterative, flowery passages in favor of the prosaic statement,
    >>> "Anything beyond 2 decimal places has to be speculation." Ah, if
    >>> only Cyrano had crafted the words and spoken for you!
    >>>
    >>> Burt (aka Burtie Furtie, Reverend, the Pope, Fotofreek, and president
    >>> of the Aftermarket Club)
    >>>
    >>
    >> Lighten up Burt, I was fooling with you. You're letting the dufus get
    >> to you way too much.
    >
    >
    >
    > :-D
    >
    >> Oh, we've never disagreed on printer, ink supplier or paper.
    >>
    >> Mickey

    Is there some hidden meaning to this drivel you keep posting or did your
    meds kick-in and you forgot what you were doing?
    Frank
  48. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    Frank wrote:

    > measekite wrote:
    >
    >>
    >>
    >> Mickey wrote:
    >>
    >>> Burt wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> "Mickey" <mickey@webster.com> wrote in message
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>> Mickey - Since I am not vying for the exalted position of Troll of
    >>>> the Week, and one Village Idiot is enough for one NG, I will
    >>>> refrain from doing battle with you on this very critical and
    >>>> important issue.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>
    >> 8-)
    >>
    >>>> Although it is difficult for me to withhold the standard childish
    >>>> schoolyard taunts, the innane one-liners, the obscene written
    >>>> equivalents of flipping the bird, and the sexual defamation of all
    >>>> your female relatives, I will observe the rules of civility that
    >>>> are supposed to apply to newsgroup postings.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>
    >> 8-)
    >>
    >>>> But only 2 decimal places? For a subject that cries out for
    >>>> extremely accurate (as well as poetic) reporting, 2 decimal places
    >>>> puts these statments in the questionable realm of simple
    >>>> observation! Would you want someone to recommend photo papers and
    >>>> aftermarket inks simply on the basis that they look damned good and
    >>>> don't harm your printer? Where's your precise investigative
    >>>> drive? What deprivation have you suffered in your youthful history
    >>>> that that would bring you to the point where you eschew iambic
    >>>> pentameter and alliterative, flowery passages in favor of the
    >>>> prosaic statement, "Anything beyond 2 decimal places has to be
    >>>> speculation." Ah, if only Cyrano had crafted the words and spoken
    >>>> for you!
    >>>>
    >>>> Burt (aka Burtie Furtie, Reverend, the Pope, Fotofreek, and
    >>>> president of the Aftermarket Club)
    >>>>
    >>>
    >>> Lighten up Burt, I was fooling with you. You're letting the dufus
    >>> get to you way too much.
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> :-D
    >>
    >>> Oh, we've never disagreed on printer, ink supplier or paper.
    >>>
    >>> Mickey
    >>
    >
    > Is there some hidden meaning to this drivel you keep posting or did
    > your meds kick-in and you forgot what you were doing?
    > Frank

    :-*
  49. Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

    measekite wrote:
    >
    >
    > Frank wrote:
    >
    >> measekite wrote:
    >>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> Mickey wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> Burt wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>> "Mickey" <mickey@webster.com> wrote in message
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>> Mickey - Since I am not vying for the exalted position of Troll of
    >>>>> the Week, and one Village Idiot is enough for one NG, I will
    >>>>> refrain from doing battle with you on this very critical and
    >>>>> important issue.
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>
    >>> 8-)
    >>>
    >>>>> Although it is difficult for me to withhold the standard childish
    >>>>> schoolyard taunts, the innane one-liners, the obscene written
    >>>>> equivalents of flipping the bird, and the sexual defamation of all
    >>>>> your female relatives, I will observe the rules of civility that
    >>>>> are supposed to apply to newsgroup postings.
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>
    >>> 8-)
    >>>
    >>>>> But only 2 decimal places? For a subject that cries out for
    >>>>> extremely accurate (as well as poetic) reporting, 2 decimal places
    >>>>> puts these statments in the questionable realm of simple
    >>>>> observation! Would you want someone to recommend photo papers and
    >>>>> aftermarket inks simply on the basis that they look damned good and
    >>>>> don't harm your printer? Where's your precise investigative
    >>>>> drive? What deprivation have you suffered in your youthful history
    >>>>> that that would bring you to the point where you eschew iambic
    >>>>> pentameter and alliterative, flowery passages in favor of the
    >>>>> prosaic statement, "Anything beyond 2 decimal places has to be
    >>>>> speculation." Ah, if only Cyrano had crafted the words and spoken
    >>>>> for you!
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Burt (aka Burtie Furtie, Reverend, the Pope, Fotofreek, and
    >>>>> president of the Aftermarket Club)
    >>>>>
    >>>>
    >>>> Lighten up Burt, I was fooling with you. You're letting the dufus
    >>>> get to you way too much.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> :-D
    >>>
    >>>> Oh, we've never disagreed on printer, ink supplier or paper.
    >>>>
    >>>> Mickey
    >>>
    >>>
    >>
    >> Is there some hidden meaning to this drivel you keep posting or did
    >> your meds kick-in and you forgot what you were doing?
    >> Frank
    >
    >
    > :-*

    They did huh?
    Well don't leave that corner of your mommy's basement where you're holed up.
    Don't want to hurt yourself or anybody else for that matter.
    Frank
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