Sign in with
Sign up | Sign in
Your question

DX10 versus DX9

Tags:
  • Graphics Cards
  • Computer
  • Graphics
Last response: in Graphics & Displays
Share
August 8, 2006 4:58:46 PM

I'm definitely not a computer expert, so forgive me if this is a silly question, but what benefits will the introduction of DX10 bring over DX9? I'm looking to build a computer for the first time, and I get confliciting advice as to whether or not to buy a good graphics card now....., or buy something inexpensive now and wait for DX10.

I don't play too many games, but I do some video editing and CAD on my computer as well as use it for photographic editing.

I'm looking to build using an Intel 6600 CPU, but I need some advice on the choosing a video card. I now have an Nvidia 6800 Ultra AGP in and old P4 computer, and it's been good. But I've also had good luck with ATI video cards in the past.

Any help would be appreciated.

More about : dx10 versus dx9

August 8, 2006 5:20:14 PM

My rather simple understanding is that you will be able to experience with dx10 enabled pc games, the same graphics quality as xbox and playstation games use, as they use dx10.
August 8, 2006 5:20:48 PM

Buy whatever you need.
No current games are programmed for DX10.
By the time there are games out for DX10 your current card will be out of date.
Related resources
August 8, 2006 5:25:51 PM

Well, first of all, DX10 is a Vista only feature (and an optional one as well) and Vista has been delayed once again, so if I were you I wouldn't set any acquisitions based on its availability. Also, as games aren't your focus, you shouldn't worry much about it. For the applicatins you use, I think a medium priced video card will cut the deal (if you have a vivo one it would add more value for you).

On the main differences of DX10 and DX9, they are completely different. In DX10, MS changed the previous architecture of DirectX, mostly on how shaders and other stuff work.
August 8, 2006 5:49:15 PM

Quote:
My rather simple understanding is that you will be able to experience with dx10 enabled pc games, the same graphics quality as xbox and playstation games use, as they use dx10.


Wherever you got this information from is nuts, ps2 and xbox graphics are horrible when compared to pc graphics, also it would be impossible for machines that came out as early as 4 years ago to use a graphics API that isn't even finished yet. Not trying to sound mean but if your going to post that kind of information, some research is required.
August 8, 2006 5:51:32 PM

Maybe he meant XBox360 and Playstation 3?
August 8, 2006 5:52:50 PM

yes i think so.

mean marine on his first mission lol
August 8, 2006 6:03:51 PM

I know the XBox360 doesn't use DX10, but I'm not sure about the PS3. I don't think it does either though, but I could be wrong.
August 8, 2006 6:11:17 PM

I think what you meant to say was that the DX10 API includes the unified shader units that are included in the XBOX360's graphics component. DX10 has not been released yet and when it is, everyone without vista will get DX9.0d.

You can be pretty damn sure that the Playstation 3 will not use DX10 - I don't know how the hell you made that jump.
August 8, 2006 6:14:50 PM

ok I admit it. I just made it up.
August 8, 2006 6:29:18 PM

Hahaha. Good stuff.
August 8, 2006 6:41:44 PM

Quote:
I know the XBox360 doesn't use DX10, but I'm not sure about the PS3. I don't think it does either though, but I could be wrong.


Acualy it does, after all it uses ATI's R600 GPU, just think before you post.
August 8, 2006 6:42:15 PM

What I hear is that DirectX 10 will have one new shader unit that will be able to add more depth to games. Since we have vertex and pixel shaders right now, they will add another shader in order to add more depth to games once again. Now, this is what i hear, if it will actually be implemented is up to the Microsoft Gods to decide. But for your puposes, no, DX10 has no use outside of gaming or anything graphic intensive. Stick with a mid-range card with HDMI capability and you should be good for quite a while.
August 8, 2006 6:50:54 PM

Quote:
I know the XBox360 doesn't use DX10, but I'm not sure about the PS3. I don't think it does either though, but I could be wrong.


Acualy it does, after all it uses ATI's R600 GPU, just think before you post.
Actually, it doesn't.

"the Xbox 360 GPU only meets it own Xbox 360 API specifications. While of course some lessons learned in DX9 and upcoming DX10 were applied, the GPU of the Xbox 360 is very much its own and comparing it directly to anything in the PC world is simply “not right” according to Mr. Feldstein"

http://www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=Nzcx

Just think before you post.
August 8, 2006 7:23:43 PM

Gaming was about 3rd on my list of priorities for my recent machine. I chose the nvidia 7600 GS for about $90 after rebate. It meets my needs and then some.

For me i dont mind playing games a few years old, so I currently am playing Far Cry, Deus Ex, and SW:KOTOR at max settings....and this thing doesnt even hiccup. Add to that the fact im running dual monitors for a Photoshop CS2 setup, and I'm in heaven.

Can I brag about 3d frame rates? No...Do i care even a little? Not a bit.
August 8, 2006 7:25:56 PM

You could probably overclock that thing pretty nicely. $90 is a good deal too.
August 8, 2006 7:26:11 PM

I prefer the older games as well - medieval total war, combat mission, heroes of might and magic3, even mordor, to name but a few. They all run beautifully on my athlon 3500+ and gt7800 (overclocked). Not only that but the AI is awesome.

I'm really looking forward to medieval2:total war and maddox's battle of britain when they are out end of this year, and civ4 (when i can get it bundled with expansion pack) - they will be the real tests.
August 8, 2006 7:36:58 PM

Quote:
Can I brag about 3d frame rates? No...Do i care even a little? Not a bit.


Yay a normal person!
Shame your benchmark scores will be 1% lower than hugeepenisdude's
August 8, 2006 7:47:37 PM

Quote:
Can I brag about 3d frame rates? No...Do i care even a little? Not a bit.


Yay a normal person!
Shame your benchmark scores will be 1% lower than hugeepenisdude's

Oh no....terrible news! Did you really have to tell him? I think he might have a heart attack!
August 8, 2006 8:00:57 PM

10>9, at least in R.

So... I guess DX10 wins...

Ok, let's be serious. DX10 doesn't exist, and who knows what DX10 cards will be like, how much they will cost, and what advantage will there be to have one. Of course they'll be better. But then again, the next generation of video cards will ALWAYS be "revolutionary", DX35 or whatsoever.

So please don't restrain from buying a PC now, it'll be outdated in 3 years, of course, but so will be the dark fate of any DX10 PC.

Yes, you won't be able to turn on DX10-related eye-candy next year. But again, DX10 or not, that's what would happen anyway.
August 8, 2006 8:51:19 PM

...that rumbling sound you are all hearing is my whole world falling apart.
August 8, 2006 8:59:23 PM

Brand new games are $50 - $60.

One - Two year old games are $20.

I'm to old to care about the latest and greatest game, highest score, blah blah blah. heck...i dont even know if i have ever even finished a video game...EVER...wait...except for Civ 2...man was that ever a good (and frustrating) game.

When it comes to gaming, i just want to spend a half hour blowing some bad guys away, or solving some puzzles or engage in a little strategic thought.

so for me, good gameplay is far more important that eye candy or frame rates.

that being said, id like to as an off topic question. Does anyone know of a decent Sci-Fi RPG (not necessarily recent...just available to buy)? I just cant get into the magic / mythology style RPG's for some reason.
August 8, 2006 9:25:17 PM

i would recommend any of the star wars knights of the old republic games land locked
August 8, 2006 9:44:33 PM

I'm not so much into sci-fi games, but on my old pc I did give 'masters of orion2' (or 'moo2') quite a bashing - a real classic, but old now. Also it did crash a few times rather annoyingly, I think it needs patching but perhaps problem was with my old computer as well. wouldn't mind seeing what the AI is like on new pc (and to see if it runs better).

I also played civ2 to death, but mastered it in the end, again wouldn't mind testing the AI of that game on new pc. Can't wait to get civ4 in new year, when it is bundled with expansion pack. sci-fi version of civ2 is 'alpha centurai', I have that game but not played it yet, apparently it is very good though.

I also have galactic civilisations, which I'm thinking of giving a go. It is also supposed to be very good deep strategy game with good AI (I only play games that have good AI!)

sorry those are all sci-fi strategy games rather than rpg's
August 8, 2006 10:17:27 PM

Quote:
Brand new games are $50 - $60.

One - Two year old games are $20.

I'm to old to care about the latest and greatest game, highest score, blah blah blah. heck...i dont even know if i have ever even finished a video game...EVER...wait...except for Civ 2...man was that ever a good (and frustrating) game.

When it comes to gaming, i just want to spend a half hour blowing some bad guys away, or solving some puzzles or engage in a little strategic thought.

so for me, good gameplay is far more important that eye candy or frame rates.

that being said, id like to as an off topic question. Does anyone know of a decent Sci-Fi RPG (not necessarily recent...just available to buy)? I just cant get into the magic / mythology style RPG's for some reason.


Fallout/Fallout 2 are both BRILLIANT games. Although old they still bring me enjoyment today. Might be a struggle finding them.

You could also check out Star Wars Knights of the Old Republic and Knights of the Old republic 2.

I know of a few others but i cant bring them to my mind at the moment.

EDIT!! If you want a free roaming game set in space where you can do whatever you want, while having a strong plot driven story you can dip in and out of, try X3: The Reunion. The X series are sorta like the successors to that all time fave of mine, Elite.
August 8, 2006 10:27:43 PM

Quote:
...that rumbling sound you are all hearing is my whole world falling apart.


Gutted.
a c 365 U Graphics card
August 9, 2006 12:08:24 AM

Quote:

I also have galactic civilisations, which I'm thinking of giving a go. It is also supposed to be very good deep strategy game with good AI (I only play games that have good AI!)



Galactic Civilization is definitely a very good strategy game with a challenging AI. The AI tweaks it's strategy based on what you do.
August 9, 2006 12:09:10 AM

Quote:

I also have galactic civilisations, which I'm thinking of giving a go. It is also supposed to be very good deep strategy game with good AI (I only play games that have good AI!)



Galactic Civilization is definitely a very good strategy game with a challenging AI. The AI tweaks it's strategy based on what you do.

Isn't Galactic Civ 2 out now?
a c 365 U Graphics card
August 9, 2006 12:11:51 AM

Quote:


Isn't Galactic Civ 2 out now?


Yep, it's been out for a few months. Doesn't change the fact that GalCiv 1 is still a great game.

I remember the good old days of Civilzation 2. I played that game for a few years. Civ 3 sucked in my opinion though 'cause the limit was 512 cities and the game tends to crash if you have more than 4000 units.
August 9, 2006 12:15:01 AM

Quote:


Isn't Galactic Civ 2 out now?


Yep, it's been out for a few months. Doesn't change the fact that GalCiv 1 is still a great game.

Suppose so!

A great Non scifi stategy game is Hearts of Iron 2. It seems truly overwhelming at first, but once you get into it it is quite possibly the most deeply absorbing strategy game i have ever come across.
August 9, 2006 10:25:49 AM

How did this thread change from comparing DX9 ->Dx10 to recommending really old games.

Anyway, try metacritic :
http://www.metacritic.com/games/pc/scores/

I say play Baldur's Gate 2 - Shadows of Amn, whenever I hear David Warner in films I just can't get Irenicus out of my head.
August 9, 2006 10:29:00 AM

Quote:
How did this thread change from comparing DX9 ->Dx10 to recommending really old games.

Anyway, try metacritic :
http://www.metacritic.com/games/pc/scores/

I say play Baldur's Gate 2 - Shadows of Amn, whenever I hear David Warner in films I just can't get Irenicus out of my head.


I love that game, i can remember basically the whole of the first speech by Irenicus. Yes, that's how sad i am.

I did prefer Throne of Bhaal to shadows of Amn though. Best expansion pack ever?
August 9, 2006 1:01:17 PM

Quote:
How did this thread change from comparing DX9 ->Dx10 to recommending really old games.

Anyway, try metacritic :
http://www.metacritic.com/games/pc/scores/

I say play Baldur's Gate 2 - Shadows of Amn, whenever I hear David Warner in films I just can't get Irenicus out of my head.


I love that game, i can remember basically the whole of the first speech by Irenicus. Yes, that's how sad i am.

I did prefer Throne of Bhaal to shadows of Amn though. Best expansion pack ever?

There's also Planescape: Torment...that game did have a great story and nice graphics at the time...I remember having a really hard time running it in my pc.
August 9, 2006 1:15:09 PM

Quote:
How did this thread change from comparing DX9 ->Dx10 to recommending really old games.

Anyway, try metacritic :
http://www.metacritic.com/games/pc/scores/

I say play Baldur's Gate 2 - Shadows of Amn, whenever I hear David Warner in films I just can't get Irenicus out of my head.


I love that game, i can remember basically the whole of the first speech by Irenicus. Yes, that's how sad i am.

I did prefer Throne of Bhaal to shadows of Amn though. Best expansion pack ever?

There's also Planescape: Torment...that game did have a great story and nice graphics at the time...I remember having a really hard time running it in my pc.

Planescape was quite possibly my favourite out of all of the Infinity engined games. It's a tought choice between Fallout and Planescape. Bother were true masterpieces with a great sense of humour and fantasticly realized worlds.

Bring back the era of the 2D RPG!!!!
August 9, 2006 4:38:13 PM

2D is awesome for rpgs and strategy games, I'll kill the a**h*** who thought about "moving up" to 3D in the first place. Anyone who's played the infinity-engine-based series (Baldur's Gate, IceWind Dale) and good ol' Age of Empires II or Starcraft will know what I'm talking about. 2D allowed for the most artistic environnements and quality spell effects (Baldur's Gate 2 was AWESOME in that regard) because they can be hand-painted. TES IV: Oblivion doesn't surpass the sheer artistic beauty of Icewind Dale's environnements, nor does its puny spell effects, even though it requires a 300$ gpu just to play it decently.

The thing is everything now just HAS to be 3D, because for some reason 3D is necessarly so much "better". The advent of 3D has of course brought some cool new possiblities, shooters like Doom 3 or CS, realistic racing games and other sports sims. But I think we also lost something 2D had that cannot be reproduced in 3D: simple, detailed, effective graphics that run perfectly on any configuration. That's a big plus, mind you. I'll only change my mind when I see the same kind of artistic quality in a 3D rpg than what was seen in the infinity-engine games.
August 9, 2006 4:46:13 PM

Quote:
How did this thread change from comparing DX9 ->Dx10 to recommending really old games.

Anyway, try metacritic :
http://www.metacritic.com/games/pc/scores/

I say play Baldur's Gate 2 - Shadows of Amn, whenever I hear David Warner in films I just can't get Irenicus out of my head.


I love that game, i can remember basically the whole of the first speech by Irenicus. Yes, that's how sad i am.

I did prefer Throne of Bhaal to shadows of Amn though. Best expansion pack ever?

There's also Planescape: Torment...that game did have a great story and nice graphics at the time...I remember having a really hard time running it in my pc.

Planescape was quite possibly my favourite out of all of the Infinity engined games. It's a tought choice between Fallout and Planescape. Bother were true masterpieces with a great sense of humour and fantasticly realized worlds.

Bring back the era of the 2D RPG!!!!

Well, I still go with fallout (and the fact that i'm an active member of the brotherhood of steel has nothing to do with this option :D  ). Fallout 2 was also a fantastic game, afterall, no other game lets you become a ravager from the after-war-world and a porn star at the same time. 8)

They couls also make more adventure games like Monkey Island, Grim Fandango, Full Throtle and Day of the Tentacle... heh...it was a nice age to be a gamer...now it's all about hack and slash (be with an axe or a .12 mm gauge shotgun) :( 
August 9, 2006 4:48:14 PM

I couldn't stand 2D RPG's. I just hated looking down on my character and the world. I always wanted to be able to see what the character sees and a first person view makes me feel more like I'm actually in the game and in that game world. There's some incredible imagery in Oblivion too. Some of the views are breathtaking. I don't know if you've ever played Gothic, but when I first played that, I was just blown away by the amount of detail in the world and how it felt like a living, breathing place. Of course that was a while ago, and by today's standards, those graphics are dull.
August 9, 2006 5:03:11 PM

Quote:
I couldn't stand 2D RPG's. I just hated looking down on my character and the world. I always wanted to be able to see what the character sees and a first person view makes me feel more like I'm actually in the game and in that game world. There's some incredible imagery in Oblivion too. Some of the views are breathtaking. I don't know if you've ever played Gothic, but when I first played that, I was just blown away by the amount of detail in the world and how it felt like a living, breathing place. Of course that was a while ago, and by today's standards, those graphics are dull.


Well, there were very nice FP RPGs in the past too. Who cannot remember Eye of the Beholder, Menzoberrazan or Ravenloft (just to name a few)? They're classics and had really nice stories too.
August 9, 2006 5:06:08 PM

I agree, I was just using two of my favorites.
August 9, 2006 7:04:42 PM

For some reason I just can't "get" first-person role-playing. Maybe my crappy actual config has something to do with why I don't particularly appreciate Morrowind or Oblivion (total system hogs)... But playing in first-person I can't role-play because there's no visible character I'm supposed to identify with; I "am" the character. Thus I'm not role-playing (playing as someone else) but I-playing (playing as me). Role-playing in first person? Real life exists for that purpose, and it kicks ass :wink:

This also has to do with the "do whatever you want" style of TES. It's less of a game and more of a world; less following a storyline, more wandering about. To each one his style I guess, I can't dive into a game that doesn't give you strict priorities and limitations on what you can do based on an advancement system and storyline.

Though the scenery is sometimes very realistic in Oblivion, it lacks the sharpness, the detail, the uniqueness and artistic quality of 2D Baldur's Gate or Icewind Dale. Such graphics were easy to create because they were hand-painted; basically the artist could do whatever he wanted. In 3D it is much harder because you have to use textures, create low-poly models, etc.
August 9, 2006 7:17:31 PM

Quote:
For some reason I just can't "get" first-person role-playing. Maybe my crappy actual config has something to do with why I don't particularly appreciate Morrowind or Oblivion (total system hogs)... But playing in first-person I can't role-play because there's no visible character I'm supposed to identify with; I "am" the character. Thus I'm not role-playing (playing as someone else) but I-playing (playing as me). Role-playing in first person? Real life exists for that purpose, and it kicks ass :wink:

Not to be mean, but that really doesn't make any sense. Role-playing in itself has nothing to do with perspective and everything to do with pretending to be something or someone you can't be/aren't in real life. In Oblivion, I can hop on my horse, go slay some goblins in my glass armor and magically heal myself with a wave of my hand. I can't do that in real life. For me, the first person, or third person as both are available in Oblivion, help me to assume that role much more effectively. It makes me feel more like I'm in the game then it would if I were playing it from an isometric point of view. Concerning the scenery, I'm sure many would disagree with you there, as Oblivion and TES universe are very unique and highly developed. Just looking at some of the detail in the armor in Oblivion is incredible. You should really sit down and play an hour or two of Oblivion, you might find you like it.
August 9, 2006 8:09:02 PM

I played Oblivion more than you would think, though I finally gave up, after a couple weeks, in frustration over the impossibility of getting a stable framerate out of my 9600SE. I don't hate the game, I just don't find it as immersive as, say, Baldur's Gate I and II.

Sure you have a good point about first-person role-playing, but to me that is just theory. I can't identify with a character if I can't see the character, if I already am the character. I don't want to hop on a horse and smash monsters with a long sword, I want to role-play a character hopping on a horse and smashing monsters with a long sword. How would you feel if Lord of the Rings was told in first-person from, say, Frodo's perspective? It would feel akward, I would feel the author has tried a weird technique of "immersion" but it's just too much and derives from effective story-telling. You might find the analogy not relevant, but maybe we just have different views on what is role-playing. Bioware spoiled me 4ever !
August 9, 2006 8:17:21 PM

Quote:
How would you feel if Lord of the Rings was told in first-person from, say, Frodo's perspective? It would feel akward, I would feel the author has tried a weird technique of "immersion" but it's just too much and derives from effective story-telling.

That's why I watch movies, read bookes and play games. I watch movies to watch characters. I read books to read about characters. I play games to be them. Of course I wouldn't want LOTR to be told in first person, as it would take away from the rest of the characters and the store. But if I was playing a LOTR RPG, I'd want it to be in first-person so I could experience the world like Frodo did. In Oblivion, I feel like I am the author and that's what I like about the first-person/third-person view. I geuss it all comes down to personal preference.
August 9, 2006 8:38:31 PM

Quote:
I couldn't stand 2D RPG's. I just hated looking down on my character and the world. I always wanted to be able to see what the character sees and a first person view makes me feel more like I'm actually in the game and in that game world. There's some incredible imagery in Oblivion too. Some of the views are breathtaking. I don't know if you've ever played Gothic, but when I first played that, I was just blown away by the amount of detail in the world and how it felt like a living, breathing place. Of course that was a while ago, and by today's standards, those graphics are dull.


Well, there were very nice FP RPGs in the past too. Who cannot remember Eye of the Beholder, Menzoberrazan or Ravenloft (just to name a few)? They're classics and had really nice stories too.

Menzoberrazan being the creation of one R.A. Salvator i believe.

Brilliant author, in my opinion.
August 10, 2006 12:03:50 AM

Quote:
But if I was playing a LOTR RPG, I'd want it to be in first-person so I could experience the world like Frodo did. In Oblivion, I feel like I am the author and that's what I like about the first-person/third-person view. I geuss it all comes down to personal preference.
Ok I've been trying to figure out something constructive to say for 30 minutes now, without any success. I'll be back with more intelligence tomorrow.
August 20, 2006 7:13:06 PM

so does anyone know when we can expect dx10 games? because I also wanted to build an e6600 from the ground up but now im not so sure.
August 20, 2006 8:03:04 PM

You are right none of the xbox360 or other consoles uses dx10 they all use dx9, even the devs nowedays "emulate" dx10
August 22, 2006 3:27:52 AM

Quote:
For some reason I just can't "get" first-person role-playing. Maybe my crappy actual config has something to do with why I don't particularly appreciate Morrowind or Oblivion (total system hogs)... But playing in first-person I can't role-play because there's no visible character I'm supposed to identify with; I "am" the character. Thus I'm not role-playing (playing as someone else) but I-playing (playing as me). Role-playing in first person? Real life exists for that purpose, and it kicks ass :wink:

This also has to do with the "do whatever you want" style of TES. It's less of a game and more of a world; less following a storyline, more wandering about. To each one his style I guess, I can't dive into a game that doesn't give you strict priorities and limitations on what you can do based on an advancement system and storyline.

Though the scenery is sometimes very realistic in Oblivion, it lacks the sharpness, the detail, the uniqueness and artistic quality of 2D Baldur's Gate or Icewind Dale. Such graphics were easy to create because they were hand-painted; basically the artist could do whatever he wanted. In 3D it is much harder because you have to use textures, create low-poly models, etc.
you think 2 much, just play and have fun
August 22, 2006 3:50:27 AM

Quote:
My rather simple understanding is that you will be able to experience with dx10 enabled pc games, the same graphics quality as xbox and playstation games use, as they use dx10.
The Xbox is Direct X8.0, and the Gamecube is Direct X8.1; the PS2 isn't even Direct X based as far as I know. While the Xbox360 does have a unified shader architecture, it does not have a true Direct X10 GPU; the PS3 has a G71 based GPU cut down to 8 ROPs.
August 22, 2006 9:38:57 AM

Will there be patches for games like Oblivion that convert them from DX9 to DX10?
      • 1 / 2
      • 2
      • Newest
!