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Motherboard for 4GB/8GB Ram

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August 8, 2006 7:08:11 PM

What motherboard do you think has the MCH that would be able to best support controlling and overclocking four 1GB or four 2GB memory modules (4GB or 8GB total), each DDR2 @ at least 667Mhz+ (NOT registered memory)

Was hoping to hit memory speeds of ~800Mhz DDR2 with 4GB (PC2 6400) or ~667Mhz DDR2 with 8GB (PC2 5300)


Using Intel Core 2 Duo E6600:
(fully liquid cooled via custom water loop Eheim pump, BIX III rad, DD block only on proc; have had proc running alone at 4GHz dual prime stable, planning on running it solid at 400Mhz*9==3.6Ghz)

single x1900XTX or single 7900GTX (no SLI, no CrossFIRE)

six SATA HDD's:
(two 2x WD1500ADFD's RAID 0, four 4x ST3750640AS's RAID 0)

on-board sata controllers that could support all drives would be a bonus, but memory is the priority.



I have been reading the forums here and at many other sites, and I haven't noticed any topics addressing the issue of large amounts of ram on these new conroe motherboards. If you have any experiences or thoughts on doing this please post in this thread.

As always, thank you for your time, it is greatly appreciated
August 8, 2006 8:04:34 PM

Are you running a 64bit OS? Because if you aren't you won't be able to run even just 4GB at full capacity (you might be able to access 3.2~3.4GB) Due to the 32bit adressing limits.
Related resources
August 8, 2006 11:10:34 PM

Well if you mean "Yes" to the question about the 64bit OS, then if you really intend to use effectively more than 4GB of RAM during your normal daily operations, you should maybe try and look into a workstation system instead of a home user type of system. Also keep in mind that 2GB sticks of DDR2 memory are quite expensive.
August 9, 2006 1:15:55 AM

you want 4Gigs o ram to use them for........

a) Word
b) OpenOffice
c) Pacman
August 9, 2006 1:47:53 AM

thanks for not answering my question and criticizing me. . .all of you. . .

I did not realize that it was necessary for me to explain my intentions beyond specifications to you . . .



however, I already have several sets of 2GB memory dimms of: crucial CT2KIT25664AA53E, crucial CT2KIT12872AA53E, and kingston KVR667D2N5K2/4G

I would like to test/work with some database/hdvideo encoding applications that require large amounts of system memory. I was hoping for an opportunity to try these applications on the new conroe core processor. In every i975 board that I have seen, the specifications have said a maximum supported memory of 8GB and most have four dimm slots which would allow for 2GB densities per dimm.

I was merely asking which desktop board did you think would best work/support large amounts of memory up to not exceding the boards spec'd capacity.

If I wanted a server board, I would turn around and put some registered memory in the quad xeon or opteron board that are three feet behind me.



Quote:

4x2GB is beyond the stability of any memory controller.

what does this mean then?:
""Maximum Memory Supported 8GB"" from
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E1681...

Quote:

you want 4Gigs o ram to use them for

I would only assume from your terrible grammar you meant "You want 4GB of ram to be used for what?"
and personally that is my own business, I was asking a question about board capabilities not asking for you to question my intentions



is it really that difficult to get a straight answer/recommendation from these forums ?
August 9, 2006 4:36:38 AM

Quote:
you want 4Gigs o ram to use them for........

a) Word
b) OpenOffice
c) Pacman


im wondering the same thing... maybe

d) all of the above



i wouldnt put 4gigs "o" ram in a pc and having high costing water cooling in it... but of course i think watercooling in a pc is a waste "o" money.

edit: i always thought seeing the specification of ""Maximum Memory Supported 8GB"" would make you think a little bit you get

maximum: means fullest
memory: is ram,
supported: what something runs,
8gb: 8 gigs of you know...

now combine all that together and my 9 year old brother gets an answer that might surprise you in a thing or two.

but of course

gg

ps:
Quote:

is it really that difficult to get a straight answer/recommendation from these forums ?


i dont think you would have posted if you knew we was not going to help you out. or would you....?
August 10, 2006 3:22:56 AM

as of yet, still not a single recommendation for a conroe motherboard that supports large amounts of memory. . .


only criticism, remmarks about intention, and off-topic posts. . .


wow these are great forums. . .


really look forward to never coming back. . .
August 10, 2006 4:01:12 AM

Dont all of the newer boards support 8 gigs of ram? Because I think that all of them list 8gb as the max.

I would recomend the asus digital home board, just because I like asus.

Also I would recomend the Swiftech storm block instead of a DD one.

Also you could wait till asus comes out with the P5WDG2 WS PRO if you want all the bells and whistles.
August 10, 2006 4:04:21 AM

This thread has tried to answer the question you asked. Maybe not the answer you wanted to hear, but it seems at this time there's not much reason to add this much RAM effectively to a system. This is not criticism only my opinion on what everyone has stated here and from my own personal experience.
August 10, 2006 8:11:18 PM

Thank you very much Nitro350Z, I greatly appreciate your straight-forward answer and recommendation.



It's nice to have one real reply, even if it is in a pile of a dozen garbage posts.
August 10, 2006 8:58:47 PM

Quote:
If you have any experiences or thoughts on doing this please post in this thread.

As always, thank you for your time, it is greatly appreciated


The posts here are exactly what you asked for, thoughts... probably based of personal experience

And you're welcome for having someone (me) point out that you got exactly what you wanted.

I hope that was an answer simple and straight-forward enough for you...

(don't ask for help then bash the people that present ideas)
August 10, 2006 9:43:19 PM

OK I don't really know alot about the subject matter but I'll try and be helpful anyway.

I'd have thought that for database / video encoding work that having high memory bandwidth would make a larger performance difference than going from 4-8GB RAM... seeing as most applications and even operating systems (64-bit WinXP notwithstanding) have difficulty addressing this much RAM.

Thus, I'd have thought you'd have better experience with 4GB 800Mhz DDR2 with 4GB than 8GB of slower 667Mhz DDR2.

In light of this, I've posted the figures from the (fairly) recent (just before Conroe) Intel motherboard roundup from THG

http://tomshardware.co.uk/2006/05/22/six_975x_enthusias...

As you can see, the winner in all the tests for memory performance is the Asus P5WGD2-WS (workstation board) and then the P5WD2-E.

Thus, to answer your question... for maximum performance, which board would be most worthwhile sticking a large amount of high-quality DDR-2 memory in?

I'd personally go for an Asus, try the P5W-DH Deluxe or P5N32-SLI SE (the latter seems to be the faster board).

Both boards are fast, will overclock well, and Asus have a proven trackrecord of good memory performance with their recent intel boards.

/me waits from the flames from people who actually know what they're talking about
August 10, 2006 10:03:09 PM

Quote:
4x2GB is beyond the stability of any memory controller.

No, my new mobo says it will do 8GB @ 800DDR.
I saw OCZ 2GB chips (sweet) but yeah, they were pretty expensive, and only PC2-5400 (667DDR).
Regards
August 10, 2006 10:35:30 PM

At the present time, there is absolutely NO mobo that can go faster than DDR2-667 DDR1-333 remaining stable with 4x 2GB unbuffered DIMMs.
Of course, you can find some that will do DDR2-800, if you set 6-6-6-20 timings, but not at usable latencies.

That is exactly the reason for which registered DIMMs are used: many DIMMs (up to 16) at high speed.
August 10, 2006 10:45:43 PM

exactly what i have been trying to say. no one is going to put 8 gigs of ram in their pc for any reason.

1. its not wise to get all the ram at one time when prices will drop
2. 2 gigs of ram is more than enough and if it isnt 4 gigs should be the max because anything over 4 gigs is basically overkill in a personal computer.
3. 2 gig memory sticks cost tons of money. they actually cost more than 2-3 gig sticks ( just a waste of money imo)

gg
August 10, 2006 11:54:35 PM

Quote:


you want 4Gigs o ram to use them for

I would only assume from your terrible grammar you meant "You want 4GB of ram to be used for what?"
and personally that is my own business, I was asking a question about board capabilities not asking for you to question my intentions



is it really that difficult to get a straight answer/recommendation from these forums ?

Today's keyword is: CHILL

Quote:
SERENITY NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
August 11, 2006 12:31:36 AM

thank you very much for your suggestions and recommendations, based upon the help I received from members here and at other boards along with my own findings, I was able to make a decision.

If any of you are curious, I am going to purchase an ASUS P5B Deluxe, ABIT AB9 Pro, and Gigabyte GA-965P-DQ6; I will test/work with these boards to see which best responds under the conditions required. Since the applications I will be using are somewhat specialized, I don't have much room to modify the software I will be using.



and as a quick aside; I am also currently working with two Tyan servers:
Tyan Thunder K8QW (S4881G2NR) Quad Socket 940
with Quad Opteron 285's
with 32GB RAM, 16*2GB DDR 400
with U320 SCSI Array
&
Tyan Tempest i5000PX (S5380G2NR) Dual Socket LGA771
with Dual Xeon 5160's
with 16GB RAM, 8*2GB DDR2 667
with U320 SCSI Array


as I said before, yes I realize that the amount of RAM and specifications I was looking for are somewhat out of the ordinary for desktop boards, I was not misunderstood and know what I am doing


once again, I appreciate the help that I did receive and I want to say thank you to the members that provided it
August 11, 2006 12:49:54 AM

dang you must have deep pockets..

good luck with that. the p5b board is good with ocing ( and has a lot of features also). i have the board myself :) 
August 20, 2006 5:26:47 AM

Actually, the 3.8 GB memory limit is more so of a processor problem than a memory controller problem. Newer motherboards are capable of 8GB max of memory if it is working with 64-bit processors such as the AMD Athlon 64 FX-62. That is one of the main benefits of 64-bit processors as oposed to 32-bit processors. 64-bit processors can theoretically handle over a trillion terabytes of RAM where as 32-bit processors are only capable of handling 2-3.8 GB of memory at the MOST. Memory controllers aren't the problem. Processors are. And that is why many consumer desktops can only handle around 2GB of memory where as since 64-bit processors are available, companies that produce motherboards to run the 64-bit motherboards have also engineered the memory controllers for 4-8 GB of memory. Sure, I do agree that 8 GB of RAM in a desktop is one hell of an overkill, but I'm going to be getting that much anyway. I'm currently buying components here and there to construct my dream computer:

- Asus P5N32-SLI Motherboard
- Intel Core 2 Extreme X6800 Processor
- 8 GB of RAM
- 2 XFX GeForce 7900GTX 512MB DDR3 XXX Edition Graphics Cards
- Ageia PhysX 128MB Physics Card
- ATLEAST 2 TB of Hard Disk Drive space
- One of the few Blu-Ray drives that are out right now
- A DVD-/+RW drive for backup.
- My old 3.5" 1.44 MB Floppy Drive just incase
- A Power Supply powerful enough to run it (haven't put much time into researching them yet so I haven't decided which one)
- and by the time I've bought all of these components Windows Vista will probably be out so Windows Vista Ultmate Edition for the OS, but if it isn't out yet I'll go ahead and purchase a copy of Windows XP x64 Professional Edition.
August 20, 2006 6:58:39 AM

Quote:
Actually, the 3.8 GB memory limit is more so of a processor problem than a memory controller problem.


In the interest of providing technically accurate information.

All Pentium 4s, AMD XP, AMD 64 support Intel PAE (Physical Address Extension) which allows the processor to address well beyond 4GB.

The 4GB limitation comes from the programmer's desire to have a simple (linear) segmentation model. The 4GB "limit" is an artificial restriction stemming from this desire. Windows XP Home and Windows XP Pro do not support Intel's PAE and therefore cannot address more than 4GB of memory.

Windows Advanced Server (32 bit version) fully supports Intel's PAE. The use of PAE allows the O/S to manage more than 4GB of memory (in segments), in turn allowing an application that is segment aware to address more than 4GB.
August 20, 2006 7:47:18 AM

The Intel 975 states that it 'can' do what you want to do. I think that they'd not like a nasty court case, so 'can' probably means 'will'. But getting through their supported memory is like going through a minefield of litigation avoidance. Their 3rd party test lab seems to like ATP a lot.

Ditto the same for all of the other vendors (ASUS, DFI and GigaByte) I checked. (minus the ATP bit)

I personally want to do something similar and have also been looking into this, but I am a ways off from setting up a project. Please feel free to PM me if / when you get results as my project will be self-funded and on a somewhat tight budget, so knowing what works in advance will save me time and $.

Sorry about some of the posts...
August 20, 2006 8:51:35 AM

Quote:
If any of you are curious, I am going to purchase an ASUS P5B Deluxe, ABIT AB9 Pro, and Gigabyte GA-965P-DQ6;


You listed CT2KIT12872AA53E as one of the memory modules you intend to use. By the designation, that's ECC memory and none of the motherboards you selected supports it (the i965 chipset does not support ECC memory)

My recommendation would be the same as DaveUK's, the Asus P5W-DH. It does support ECC memory as well as non-ECC and it is one of the best boards out there at this time.

HTH.

Edited to correct a misspelling.
August 20, 2006 10:20:12 AM

Quote:
All Pentium 4s, AMD XP, AMD 64 support Intel PAE (Physical Address Extension) which allows the processor to address well beyond 4GB

PAE is available on all Intel/AMD CPU since the Pentium Pro excluding only the FSB400 Pentium M and allows access to 64GB of memory: theese procs have 4 more address lines and they map the 32bit address space in a wider 36bit address space (some procs have up to 48bit).
But as you correctly said only Windows Server supports PAE and, obviously because Windows sucks, all versions of linux since kernel 2.4.
Anyway I used PAE with 8GB RAM on Windoes 2003 Server and it'i simply useless because Windows keeps the RAM usage as small as possible using swap instead of physical memory... Windows really sucks, so if you need to use that amount of physical RAM go for unix.
August 20, 2006 10:47:51 AM

I didn't remember in which processor they implemented PAE but, I remembered it was a while back. Since I didn't remember exactly I chose to be conservative without being inaccurate. The other thing that I did not remember exactly was the number of bits used to implement PAE. Obviously, it is 4 bits, thus enabling 16x4GB.

I posted the information because a lot of people are under the mistaken impression that the 4GB limit is imposed by the processor, which really isn't the case. PAE on the other hand doesn't extend the linearly addressable space which, as you pointed out, makes it cumbersome to use.

For others who may read this, the 4GB memory limit only applies to linearly addressable memory.

Thank you for refreshing my memory.
August 20, 2006 1:33:07 PM

You made well posting this info, all informations about linear addressable memory are accurates :-)
I think this may help something understand the 4GB issue :-)
!