No more "Should I upgrade?" please.

[Slava]

:!: :!: :!: Make this a sticky for the next 6 months? :!: :!: :!:

In short:

Rule of thumb #1: In the case of video cards, these days you get what you pay for 9 out of 10 times.

Rule of thumb #2: Same generations of current ATI and nVIDIA cards are pretty much the same in performance though ATI cards often offer better image quality since many of them are able to use Anti-Aliasing and HDR at the same time. The real issue is availability.

Should you upgrade your video card?

1. If you think you might need to upgrade then you should. But if your budget is so limited that +/- $20-50 is a huge deal then forget about upgrading.

2. If you are a hardcore gamer it does not matter if your PC is on its last legs at the moment. Getting something mainstream on the cheap will not get you far; and getting a current top of the line card for big bucks right now is a waste of money - you should EDIT: get Core 2 Duo and wait for NextGen cards.

3. If your PC sucks and you are not a hardcore gamer who wants the best visuals and blazing frame rates you could upgrade now but unless your budget is severely limited - EDIT: get Core 2 Duo and wait for NextGen cards.

4. If you have an AGP-based system and you really need to have it breathing for another 8-12 months you should get a Radeon® X850 Pro 256MB AGP.

There is nothing else to say about this subject. Quoting GrateGrapeApe:

As for DX10 Cards, well it's not that it's DX10 that makes them better but that they will be more powerful (more fill rate / bandwidth / etc.), just like the GF7800/X1800 vs GF6800/X800 vs R9700 vs R8500/GF4ti.

So based on all the early info it's likely that the R600 and G80 will be more powerful than any DX9 solution out there. That we call them DX10 cards instead of NextGen is causing some confusion IMO.

The cards should get a boost from DX10, but think of it like this, the Next gen will be (arbitrarily) 50% faster than current top of the line, then once DX10 comes out there will be a performance boost of 10-50% (depending on app). So think of the DX10 part as gravy, but the raw horsepower of the new processors will be better too.

 

[prozac26]

Good post. n00bz will still post same questions over and over, but, what can we do about it?

 

[Slava]

Good post. n00bz will still post same questions over and over, but, what can we do about it?

Thanks. In case the Moderators choose not to make this a sticky, let's bump this thread, keep it at the top and hope that people with "should I upgrade?" and "what to get, ATI or nVIDIA?" questions read it first.

 

[Gary_Busey]

Hey, I have a P1 233mhz. Should I upgrade? Also, should I get a 7600GT or an X1800GTO?









I kid, I kid.

 

[Slava]

Hey, I have a P1 233mhz. Should I upgrade? Also, should I get a 7600GT or an X1800GTO?

ROFL :lol: Good one!

 

[prozac26]

bump

 

[kaotao]

Will DX10 be compatible with my apple 2e? Nice post.

 

[Gary_Busey]

I got this weird rash on my back. Should I upgrade?

 

[TheGreatGrapeApe]

I agree with the sentiment, just think it's needs a little fine tuning.

Make this a sticky for the next 6 months?

Valid up 'til the release of the G8x/R6xx series, then it's a whole new ball game, and can't wait to play with the new names/SKUs.

What's a G/FF8008S ?

Um that's acrtually BRA sir, size G / FF BOOBS , don't know how that got into the computer department. :lol:

Rule of thumb #1: In the case of video cards, these days you get what you pay for 9 out of 10 times.

Except the GSs, SEs, and crippled cards. While there's no FXs out there now, who knows about next gen, so that doesn't always apply. I find with CPUs is easier to pick a general winner than with VPUs. I wouldn't be surprised if alot of people pass up a deal on a GT or XT because they see a GS or XL for more money and think it must be the more powerful solution. Just a thought, sometimes it's tricky.

Rule of thumb #2: Same generations of current ATI and nVIDIA cards are pretty much the same in performance though ATI cards often offer better image quality since many of them are able to use Anti-Aliasing and HDR at the same time. The real issue is availability.

This doesn't speak to upgrading though, that speaks to choice. They both have their niches, and yep in general are rather close (although the middle ground unquestionably favours nV right now). Things like Linux, Video Editing, etc. may be a factor when upgrading. Also some people go out an buy an X1900/GF7900 for what is essentially a 2D role, so some people need specific help. But I agree most questions are for gamers and really repetative where it's better they simply Read the Buyer's Guides!

1. If you think you might need to upgrade then you should.

Well....Not everyone should, and without the proper info, some people would upgrade from an equivalent card to equivalent or lower card.
Better statement would be "if you THINK you might need to upgrade, do some research on what your options are and why you think you need them, and THEN if you still don't know, then ask a SPECIFIC detailed question". But if you put the other Caveats in front of this statement, then it would be perfectly fine IMO. If after reading all the other stuff you still thinkyou should, then probably you should, but just be sure it's actually an upgrade, and not moving from a GF6800U to a GF7300, or X1800XT to X1900GT just because of nomenclature.

Oh yeah too bad the ReadMe Faq is a little hacked up after the transistion to the new forum. Pretty much said it clearly, just read the stickies, and avoid silly questions.

http://forumz.tomshardware.com/hardware/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=76612&highlight=


EDITed to fix quotes.

 

[Slava]

Except the GSs, SEs, and crippled cards.

Sure, sure. Just did not want to make the post too long with all the details. Still, in general more powerful cards cost more, en mass...

Well....Not everyone should, and without the proper info, some people would upgrade from an equivalent card to equivalent or lower card.

Better statement would be "if you THINK you might need to upgrade, do some research

What I meant was this: You know this cliche when a wife asks her husband "Honey, do I look fat?" and he thinks "If you think you do, then you probably are (fat)." Typically, I would say, if you are happy with your PC the thought of upgrading it does not cross your mind (unless you are so loaded that $$$ is not an issue at all). If you are beginning to wonder whether you should upgrade, chances are you are not very happy anymore and, hence, you should indeed upgrade.

Do some research? O'course. Goes without saying. If one is so dumb and lazy that they do not research their purchase of an item that is supposed to last a long time then no amount of posts will fix their .... ummm... problem.

just read the stickies, and avoid silly questions

Amen.

 

[Gary_Busey]

Hey, I have a P1 233mhz. Should I upgrade? Also, should I get a 7600GT or an X1800GTO?

Actually the correct designation would be P5 233mmx 8)
I was just referring to an old processor I had, it was a Pentium 1 that ran at 233MHZ. It was called a P5 233MMX?

 

[Slava]

If memory serves it was called Pentium Pro 233 MHz MMX. They started at 200 MHz. Man, was it like 1994? Crazy even to think that 12 years have passed. *sighs*

 

[TheGreatGrapeApe]

Sure, sure. Just did not want to make the post too long with all the details. Still, in general more powerful cards cost more, en mass...

True just pointing out the far too many posts we've had later where people didn't ask, and then came here saying "my GF7300/X1300 isn't as fast as my GF6600GT/X700P, what's wrong..." I'd rather have people post a question after the all important research than after the purchase.

Do some research? O'course. Goes without saying. If one is so dumb and lazy that they do not research their purchase of an item that is supposed to last a long time then no amount of posts will fix their .... ummm... problem.

Yeah you know it seems like common sense, but how many people do we know who buy $1,000+ DELLs without thinking and wonder why their included X300SE or GMA900 doesn't play Oblivion well. They do more research on a $50 shoe purchase than a $1,000+ computer purchase. :roll:

I think it almost makes sense to have a skill testing question before you can post, and perhaps have the following;

- Did you read the Forum Faq?
- Did you read the Stickies at the top of the Section you wish to post in?
- Did you try using the SEARCH funtion to see if this question had already been asked 15 times today?
- Do you think people already know about the AMD+ATi merger and there isn't a need for 10 threads just because you want your own?

If the answer is yes then you may proceed...

That'd be pretty sweet! 8)


EDIT: Missed your later addition/edit (probably while I was writintg);

What I meant was this: You know this cliche when a wife asks her husband "Honey, do I look fat?" and he thinks "If you think you do, then you probably are (fat)."

And that sorta speaks to what I was talkign about too, some people are 'anorexic' in their thinking and would feel they need to upgrade (think they're fat) when in reality they're fine and it's their expectations that need to be re-examined.

 

[Slava]

I think it almost makes sense to have a skill testing question before you can post, and perhaps have the following;

- Did you read the Forum Faq?
- Did you read the Stickies at the top of the Section you wish to post in?
- Did you try using the SEARCH funtion to see if this question had already been asked 15 times today?
- Do you think people already know about the AMD+ATi merger and there isn't a need for 10 threads just because you want your own?

If the answer is yes then you may proceed...

This is frigging brilliant. I would add something before the "you may proceed" line:

If your post

- is redundant OR
- lacks your system specifications OR
- contains a silly question dealing with common knowledge

do not expect an answer and be prepared to be flamed.

I can understand honest confusion of people who (despite their efforts to figure things out) are simply overwhelmed by all the details, features and benchmarks. But generic questions regarding common knowledge are just annoying. Especially annoying are posts lacking system specs and a description of the purposes for which the system is used.

 

[Gary_Busey]

My balls itch. Scratch?

 

[Slava]

My balls itch. Scratch?

You crack me up, brother :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[TheGreatGrapeApe]

Depends, that may agrevate or spread the itch. My suggestion, just get rid of them, you aren't using them anyways! ZING! :tongue:

 

[Slava]

And that sorta speaks to what I was talkign about too, some people are 'anorexic' in their thinking and would feel they need to upgrade (think they're fat) when in reality they're fine and it's their expectations that need to be re-examined.

Ah, I see sounds like their personal problem to me though :twisted:

 

[Gary_Busey]

Ouch.

I might not be using them, but your mom can't keep her hands off them.

Zinger!

 

[Dr_asik]

Noobz don't read stickies or useful topics before they ask their silly questions, so why taunt them with yet another sticky? Cleeve's "Short List" would have prevented maybe 25% of all recent threads if only everyone had read it. How many "X1800XT vs X1900GT vs 7900GT" threads?

Let's face it: there will always be noobs, they will keep asking "X1800XT vs 1900GT vs 7900GT" and "should I upgrade" and "need a computer for my friend HEKLP PLZZZZ!!!!".

Besides, I disagree with "you should wait for next-gen cpu/gpu". When the "next-gen" hits the market it won't be next-gen anymore; there will be even another "next-gen" cpu/gpu around the corner, making you feel bad about buying something "current-gen", meaning "by the time it ships it's already outdated". There are plenty of good deals of gpus right now if you know where to look. Plus, when geForce 8 and X2000 hits the market it will stay in the high-end/high-priced segment for quite some time, meaning even more waiting for a reasonably priced solution.

 

[MasterLee]

Good post. n00bz will still post same questions over and over, but, what can we do about it?

Politley ignore them...............man if they don't know now they never will.

 

[mandark357]

Besides, I disagree with "you should wait for next-gen cpu/gpu". When the "next-gen" hits the market it won't be next-gen anymore; there will be even another "next-gen" cpu/gpu around the corner, making you feel bad about buying something "current-gen", meaning "by the time it ships it's already outdated". There are plenty of good deals of gpus right now if you know where to look. Plus, when geForce 8 and X2000 hits the market it will stay in the high-end/high-priced segment for quite some time, meaning even more waiting for a reasonably priced solution.

This is so true. If everyone ends up waiting for next-gen then nobody will ever build a system based on current gen now. The best thing to do is to figure out what you "NEED" not "WANT".

Hell, I really want to play all my games on my monitors native resolution of 1600X1400. But I don't need to because 1028x768 works just fine.

 

[Gary_Busey]

Besides, I disagree with "you should wait for next-gen cpu/gpu". When the "next-gen" hits the market it won't be next-gen anymore; there will be even another "next-gen" cpu/gpu around the corner, making you feel bad about buying something "current-gen", meaning "by the time it ships it's already outdated". There are plenty of good deals of gpus right now if you know where to look. Plus, when geForce 8 and X2000 hits the market it will stay in the high-end/high-priced segment for quite some time, meaning even more waiting for a reasonably priced solution.

This is so true. If everyone ends up waiting for next-gen then nobody will ever build a system based on current gen now. The best thing to do is to figure out what you "NEED" not "WANT".

Hell, I really want to play all my games on my monitors native resolution of 1600X1400. But I don't need to because 1028x768 works just fine.
Do we really 'need' to buy graphics cards in the first place? Do we even 'need' to play video games? There are very few 'needs' when dealing with video cards for gaming. It's all 'wants'.

 

[mandark357]

Yeah, but nowadays gaming is pretty much a need in my case. Otherwise I will go insane and probably kill idiotic drivers in the freeways. :twisted:

Seriously though, you are right. Gaming is a want. But you need to put limits. Otherwise my want for a $5000 gaming rig will come to pass.

 

[Gary_Busey]

Of course you need to put limits, but waiting a month or two for the next generation of video card isn't inane. Now, if you're waiting 6 months, maybe. In the current case though, of DX9 and DX10, I don't see the point in waiting because no release date is set in stone.