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First +4400 X2 OCing Results.

Last response: in Overclocking
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August 9, 2006 3:06:39 PM

Good morning one and all. I just finished my first round of OCing my new +4400 X2 and thought I would share the love.

My system is: AMD +4400 X2 w/CM Hyper-48 cooler and AS5, Abit AN8 nF4 MB, CORSAIR XMS 2GB (2 x 1GB), EVGA 7800GT, medium tower w/good cooling, SolyTech SL-D460 power supply and SB live.

I found safe, stable results to be: 228MHz X 11 (2500), HT X 5 (1140) and Ram @ 2-3-3-6 T1, 380MHz (Ram set to 333MHz), VCC = 1.475V and min/max temp 39c/57c with Prime95 running on both cores.

I say "Safe and Stable" because I can actually run at 236MHz (in fact that was my original goal) but it requires VCC of 1.55 and my max temps hit 65c and that seems a bit un-safe for the little gain in MHz. Also another concern was my PWM power regulator was hitting 65c (thats with 2 X 40mm fans cooling the PWM) and that’s a bit much.

Based on my results I would say 2.6GHz is the max this CPU will handle on air but that the sweat spot (the point of diminishing returns) would seem to be 2.5GHz. An upgrade to water or replacing my quiet but slower CPU and Case fans would also allow higher speeds but the fan option would increase the noise.

Not as high as I had hoped for; BUT considering that’s better then TWO +4000 SanDiego core CPU’s I guess that’s not so bad.

I should also add that I didn’t do a re-install of XP/SP2 and other then updating my bios and installing AMD optimizer I’ve was able to upgrade from my previous +3000 w/o a problem. I haven’t played any games yet, so this could change.

More about : 4400 ocing results

August 9, 2006 3:22:46 PM

can you tell me what you did, step by step, because i want to do it aswell. please
August 9, 2006 4:42:25 PM

The thing to keep in mind is EVERYTHING runs off the CPU frequency of 200MHz (CPU, HTT, RAM, PCI) and the other frequencies are derived from that base frequency by multipliers.
CPU 200 X 11= 2200MHz, HTT 200 X 5 = 1000MHz, Ram 200 X 2 = 400MHz. If your MB is an nF4 your PCI buss should be locked (some other chip sets have a problem with that and don’t OC well as a result).
By increasing the CPU frequency and decreasing the Ram and HTT frequency as needed, you can OC your CPU. Remember: large increases in CPU frequency outweigh small decreases in HTT or Ram frequency.

In your Bio’s:
1. Set your CPU frequency to 219MHz (this will start you at a conservative 219 X 11 = 2.4GHz)
2. Increase the VCC voltage to 1.4 or 1.425 or 1.45 depending on stability.
3. Leave the HTT multiplier at 5 for now as 5 X 219 = 1095 and that should be within tolerance of your MB. (You might need to increase the HTT voltage, but only by one step)
4. Your Ram might or might not run at a stock ram divider of 1:1 (or on some bios 400MHz), if you’re having Ram problems try increasing the DDR voltage, stock is probably 2.6V but you can push it easily to 2.8V. If a voltage increase doesn’t work, you can try loosening up your Ram timings (if your using T1 and have 2 X 1GB modules try T2) if not you will have to slow your ram down by changing your ram divider to 5:6 (333MHz) this will change your Ram speed to 219 X 2 = 438 / 1.2 = 365MHz Ram clock speed.
Save and exit and see if you can boot back into the Bio’s, if your system hangs you might have to re-set your CMOS from the MB jumper (check w/your MB manual).
One of the first tests I try is MemTest86+, it is a self booting (FD or CD) program that will test your memory and cpu, you can find it on the web.
If Memtest86+ runs clean for two passes then try to boot into windows and run Prime95 on both Core’s, check on the web for instructions on where to get it and how to run two copies at once.
Keep an eye on your temps through a real-time monitoring program.
65c is the max temp AMD recommends.
If Prime95 runs stable for several hours, go back to step 1 and increase your CPU frequency by small increments (2MHz) and try again.
Don’t forget, as CPU frequency goes up Ram and/or HTT mult may have to come down.
Related resources
August 9, 2006 4:46:03 PM

I'm a little disappointed. I haven't tried oc'ing my 4400 yet but I had a AMD64 3500 (which is also 2200 at stock) oc'ed to 2.8GHz stable on air. You sound like you know what your doing so if you can only get 2.6GHz I'd be disappointed.

I'll try later this week to oc but my specs are
A8N-sli deluxe
3GB Corsair XMS (forget the timing I'm @ work)
7900GTX evga
Venus 12 and 3 x 120mm fans (side, front, & back) with PCI slot exhaust (for the evga)
At stock the 4400 runs at 96F
Motherboard is at 100F

I'm planning on water cooling later down the line.....my pc sounds like a jet.....can't hear my tv (surrond sound) when its on. (Plus all the tubes + resoiver + radiator would look cool and I'm a dork)

I did apply artic silver on the 4400 (with a burn in of 1 week) but I'm afraid it's not working well so I might try a re-application if my temps don't lower.
August 9, 2006 5:12:35 PM

To be honest, I have read in forum threads that the Toledo cores didn’t OC as well as the Manchester cores and that would seem to be the case (the extra 512MB L2 would seem to take its toll in heat and power). But I wanted the 1MB L2 cache on each core, so it was a compromise.

Having said that, I too was disappointed at 2.5GHz if only because the FX60 runs at 2.6GHz on 1.35-1.4V and it’s the same part only bin tested better. I haven’t given up on 2.6GHz but I won’t be able to reach it on anything less then 1.55V VCC and that isn’t even be close to a 1.4V FX-60.
August 9, 2006 5:13:26 PM

Any reason for going 228 x 11 vs. 250 x 10? I've always heard that a higher FSB/HTT is better than using a higher multiplier. Anyone know if there is any truth to this?

I'm currently running 220 x 11 (2.42ghz) just because I wanted to effectively have at A64x2 4800+.
August 9, 2006 5:20:27 PM

I just purchased one of these processors and it should come next week. I will try to overclock it as well. I currently have a venice 3200 64 cpu that has troubles at 2.5Ghz. I'm hoping the 4400 X2 will be able to surpass it.
I will post my results here as well :) 

It's funny how the 4400 X2 dropped in price along with the rest of them. Some people claim to notice the 1MB L2 cache while others say it is negligible.
August 9, 2006 5:21:53 PM

Does everyone know the stepping codes to their processors? We can start an informal overclocking database for the 4400 X2 and see if there are any trends.
August 9, 2006 5:31:33 PM

In my mind, increasing the CPU Frequency even further because you’ve dropped the CPU multiplier would only mean you have to drop the HTT and Ram even more for stability.

However, it is possible with the right combination you might get your Ram frequency closer to 400MHz and HTT closer to 1000MHz.

You would need to do the math for each combination to see if it makes sense.
August 9, 2006 5:44:57 PM



Nothing special yet, just an increase of the reference clock to 220MHz, ram handles it just fine. I intend to see what I can do to get a little more out of it, but I want my memory bandwidth to stay as high as possible. Details of rig in my sig.

[edit]
100% load temps 50 deg C on stock cooling
[/edit]
August 9, 2006 5:57:48 PM

It’s interesting that you’re able to hit 2.4GHz on stock 1.35V VCC that further re-enforces in my mind the thought that 2.6 might be the wall on air cooling.

Is that a stable system?
I.e. Prime95 running on both cores for an hour?
August 9, 2006 6:02:31 PM

I haven't run Prime on it but it does crunch seti@home 24/7 without any errors. When I get some time I caould do a run or two with it to see.
August 9, 2006 6:26:02 PM

I crunched some numbers and you might be on to something.
Right now I’m CPU 228 X 11 =2508, HTT = 1140 (X5), and ram is 456/1.2 = 380 (333Mhz divider).
If I drop the CPU mult to 10 and up the CPU clock frq to 250 the rest would be HTT = 1000 (X4, I don’t think the buss would handle 1250), and ram would be 500/1.2 = 416.
That would be a decrease in HTT but an increase in Ram speed. Not sure if the extra memory bandwidth is worth it, but I might give it a try.
August 9, 2006 6:40:20 PM

Quote:
In my mind, increasing the CPU Frequency even further because you’ve dropped the CPU multiplier would only mean you have to drop the HTT and Ram even more for stability.

However, it is possible with the right combination you might get your Ram frequency closer to 400MHz and HTT closer to 1000MHz.

You would need to do the math for each combination to see if it makes sense.


Probably so, but I'm speaking in terms of oc'ing the processor only. You can always lower the HTT multi and use a ram divider to bring them back into spec.
August 9, 2006 6:46:48 PM

Quote:
It’s interesting that you’re able to hit 2.4GHz on stock 1.35V VCC that further re-enforces in my mind the thought that 2.6 might be the wall on air cooling.

Is that a stable system?
I.e. Prime95 running on both cores for an hour?


Hrmmm... like I said, I'm running at 220 x11 (2.42ghz) running on stock voltages. I haven't even touched the HTT multi (HTT = 220 x 5 = 1100)and I have my ram running 1:1, effective DDR440.

It passed 24 hours of memtest and two instances of prime95 torture test (one per core) for 10 hours.
August 9, 2006 6:55:08 PM

Your ram is really nice, what timings and T value are you using?
August 9, 2006 7:30:17 PM

:lol:  ram is in my sig.

I have it set at 2-3-2-5 @ 1T. OCZ allows you to up the voltage to 2.8v without voiding the lifetime warranty.

@ DrBlofeld... I can't remember my stepping off hand. I can check CPU-Z once I'm at home.
August 9, 2006 7:53:29 PM

The Ram I picked-up with my +4400 X2 has similar timings:
CORSAIR ,Series XMS
Model Twinx2048-3200c2
Cas Latency 2
Timing 2-3-3-6
Voltage 2.75V
Think I will try setting my divider back to 1:1, set the DDR voltage to 2.8V (max on my board) and step down the CPU Freq from 228MHz until its stable and see if that tests out faster.
August 9, 2006 10:52:02 PM

I can't post a pic, but here is info from CPU-Z.

Family: F
Ext. family: F
Model: 3
Ext. Model: 23
Stepping: 2
Revision: JH-E6
August 9, 2006 11:12:52 PM

Many of the newer 3800X2 being shipped are actually the toledo cores with half the cache disabled. I'm a noob overclocker, but I've had mine running stable at 2.8 and boot at 2.9 with very little voltage increase (haven't gone above 1.4).

Right now its running at 2.4 and idling at 34C.

If you're looking for a good ocing X2, these ones are great.

August 9, 2006 11:29:18 PM

I have an X2-4400 OC'd to 2.6 and my temps are a good bit lower than yours... I have a Kandalf case along with a Thermaltake BigWater 745... I haven't run a burn-in test in a while, but if memory serves me correctly it maxes out at 58 C. Also, I didn't have to raise my voltage as much... I'm thinking your VCC of 1.55 is too high for that little of a performance payback... I'm wanting to say mine is ~ 1.48. I just have this mental image of your chip not working one day because over the excess voltage.
August 10, 2006 3:15:13 AM

Quote:
Many of the newer 3800X2 being shipped are actually the toledo cores with half the cache disabled.


Actually, those are the older CE models. WIth AMD switching to only 512K cache, the newer 3800X2 should all be Manchester cores with true 512K cache.
August 10, 2006 3:17:05 AM

Quote:

I have it set at 2-3-2-5 @ 1T. OCZ allows you to up the voltage to 2.8v without voiding the lifetime warranty.


OCZ lets you go up to 3.0V without voiding the lifetime warranty. :D 
August 10, 2006 3:26:29 AM

Actually I’m running my VCC @ 1.475 with CPU Freq of 228 (2.5GHz)
and my max cpu temp was 59c, until that is I swapped out my slower Cooler Master 120mm case fan for a faster ANTEC model this evnening. Now my CPU temp is 54c. My post on the 1.55 VCC and 2.6GHz @ 65c is a guess based on some testing. Actually my biggest concern now is at my current settings my PWM temp is 60c. But that sensor is next to the CPU so that my have an effect on the PWM temp reading.
As for 2.6GHz , I don’t think anything short of 1.5 or 1.525 VCC will get me there, so I will hold off on that for now.
August 10, 2006 3:27:25 AM

oh ok. I bought mine at the time of the price drops and got the toledo. I guess it makes sense that there's a newer line.
August 10, 2006 12:07:32 PM

Quote:

I have it set at 2-3-2-5 @ 1T. OCZ allows you to up the voltage to 2.8v without voiding the lifetime warranty.


OCZ lets you go up to 3.0V without voiding the lifetime warranty. :D 

Not on the platinum el edition.

OCZ EL DDR PC-3200 / 400MHz / Enhanced Latency Platinum Edition
Finally, OCZ Platinum Edition memory modules are rated to handle up to 2.8V without invalidating the OCZ Lifetime Warranty so that performance enthusiasts can tweak their systems without worry!
August 10, 2006 1:35:12 PM





MSi K8N Diamond Plus
Amd X2 4400 @ 250mhz = 1.55 volts
2 x 1GB Corsair Twin X DDR 500 3, 3, 3, 8 @ 1T = 1:1 ratio = 2.8 volts
Inno3D 7800 GTX @ 500/1300
Hec Win Power 550 watts
2pc WD 74GB raptor - raid 0
thermaltake Aquarius 2 water cooled
August 10, 2006 2:36:26 PM

Thanks for posting your results krazyivan. I've just purchased a 4400+ and have been very curious as to other peoples OC results. Once I can burn my chip in a bit more I'm going to shoot for a 2.6ghz stable OC on water cooling. Fingers crossed!
August 10, 2006 2:58:02 PM

Quote:
Thanks for posting your results krazyivan. I've just purchased a 4400+ and have been very curious as to other peoples OC results. Once I can burn my chip in a bit more I'm going to shoot for a 2.6ghz stable OC on water cooling. Fingers crossed!


My friend clocked his 4400+ right out of the box to 2.7ghz stable on air cooling 8)

He has a Artic Silencer 64 on it and his temps are 31c at idle and 46c under full load.
August 10, 2006 3:22:04 PM

Pogi,

Is your ram OC'd or did you leave it as is? and thanks for posting too. I have almost the same setup minus the mobo.
August 11, 2006 3:24:11 AM

Well, following HawkEye22's lead I tried to up my CPU freq to 2.4GHz w/o changing my ram or HTT mult. I couldn’t get my system to boot on anything over 205 cpu freq :(  But having read through other threads I got the idea that maybe my ram timings were so tight (2-3-2-6 @ 1T) the ram was causing the problem above 400MHz. So I dropped to 2.5-3-2-6@T1 and bingo; 2.4GHz, 1.4v VCC and 50c max. w/o changing multipliers/dividers :D 

Actually, I think slightly lower ram/HTT speeds w/2.5GHz CPU beats higher ram/HTT speeds w/2.4GHz CPU. (CPU speed is always king with AMD's architecture) But, service life can’t be ignored and I think lower VCC and less heat prevails.
August 11, 2006 7:37:46 PM

Ok, CPU frequency is now 226MHz (2486MHz) @ 1.475 VCC with only a small change in RAM timing, 2.5-3-3-7 T1. Tried 228MHz but had stability problems in Prime95. I would like to get it to 228MHz and even 236MHz (2.6GHz). I will need some more experimentation with the RAM timings (The culprit in my stability problems, I think).
August 15, 2006 4:02:16 AM

Ok, tonight’s results:

CPU = 263 X 9.5, 2502MHz
HTT = 1052MHz
RAM = 416MHz, 2.5-3-3-6 T1, 2.8V
VCC 1.45, 53c on Prime95 running on both cores.
August 15, 2006 7:54:38 AM

I've got some time off from work, so I think I'll lock everything down and try to max mine out...details to follow.
August 15, 2006 6:26:11 PM

Edited on 8/15/06: AM

Ok, ran into a problem with the last settings. After 1.5hrs last night I had a Prime95 error on one core. CRAP!

Soooo... I wanted to isolate the CPU from memory and took my RAM down to 266MHz. Prime95ed all night last night and had a failure at 6hrs.

Well, I can safely say 2500MHz is a wall for my +4400 X2 (110W) @ 1.45V VCC.

I dropped my frequency back down to 262MHz and increased my Ram back to a 333MHz divider. I will let it run while I’m at work (+9hrs) and if it’s still running I will contemplate increasing my VCC to 1.475 and break the 2.5GHz barrier.

One last thought; remember to run Prime95 overnight to ensure absolute stability in your system. If you’ve OCed recently and ran it for only 1-2hrs but are still getting intermittent crashes, take note.
August 15, 2006 6:47:36 PM

point of dminishing returns


hahaha i love the economics reference...
August 15, 2006 7:28:39 PM

That would appear to be the case, but I haven’t quit just yet.
August 16, 2006 4:06:42 PM

Well I suffered another set back when I got home yesterday.
Error, Error, Error... Ok, only one error but one is too much. After 2.5hrs run time one of the cores had an error in Prime95.
Soooo... Backed the frequency down to 261MHz last night and ran P95 on both cores over night.
Success!
That puts my X2 +4400 (110W) at 2480MHz @ 1.45V and 39-51c.
That’s 93MHz per 0.05V, not bad. However I will try 1.475 to see how far I can put it past 2500MHz... Stable of course.
August 16, 2006 10:56:52 PM

One point I would like to bring up with all who read this post (and perhaps start a new thread?) is the definition of the term "STABILITY". Before I started OCing my CPU I read through many reviews and forums/treads dedicated to OCing X2's. I came away with the impression that 2.6-2.7GHz OC was very attainable. But after going back and re-reading those reviews/thread and some new ones, I think one persons definition of a "Stable" system is certainly not the same as another’s.

For instance; many claim a stable system if P95 runs on both cores for 1-2hrs. Certainly that’s not a crash-prone system, but not a stable system.
If the last few days of COing have taught me nothing else it’s that 1-2hrs does not a stable system make. I’ve run P95 and had errors at +2, 2.5 and 6hrs.
Even 8-12hrs may not be completely stable, but it’s a big step-up from 2hrs
August 17, 2006 2:18:51 AM

Well I just installed the 4400 into my machine and was up till 4 exploring different possibilities. I set the speed and timing of my RAM to 266 DDR and HTT to 3X to focus on the CPU. I have an Asus a8N-E and OCZ Gold and Platinum memory.

Currently I get 2.4Ghz with 1.45V and 2.62Ghz with 1.51V (but not prime stable)

My temps are super high compared to all other posts, unless it has something to do with the Asus A8n-E?

IDLE: MB:43C CPU:42C
LOAD: MB:45C CPU:62C :oops:  (this is at 2.4Ghz)

I just ordered a bunch of FANS to try to lower the heat :twisted:

Does anyone know the typical overclocks for these processors? Mine seems a little volt hungry.
August 17, 2006 4:17:38 AM

I originally had +60c load temps, and expected that with a CPU that has fresh AS5 on it. I have found (after my 4th CPU) that AS5 works best if you run your CPU under max load/temp for a few hrs. Then shut down and let it cool over night and the next time you run... -10c off/on load.
Also I found my main 120mm case exhaust fan was inadequately slow (750RPM) and upgraded to a faster 2000RPM unit. Made a lot of difference.

Your Speed/VCC is very much in line with what Ive experienced. Right now I’m at 2511MHZ/1.475V and have been running P95 on each core (Blend/Sml FT) for 4hrs.
August 17, 2006 4:49:36 AM

Cool, thanks for the info. I am also using AS5 on the stock copper heatpipe CPU. I used a credit card followed by a fine wet/dry sandpaper to smooth out the bottom of the heatsink.

One interesting note with these CPU's is that there are now two versions for S939,

The ADA and ADV versions:
ADA4400CDBOX
ADV4400CDBOX

The second one is newer and cheaper. It seems to be a lower energy CPU. I've seen this question posted before, but without a good response. DOes anyone know if the ADV's overclock better than the ADA's?

Also, I believe that the ADA's may come with a better heatsink. Can anyone confirm this?
August 17, 2006 1:50:41 PM

Mine came with a nice (in fact the BEST stock unit I’ve seen) large 4 pipe unit with a large cooper base (But I already have a CM Hyper-48 ).
I have read other posts that would tend to lead me to believe that the lower power model (89W) they are selling has a smaller heat sink w/o heat pipes.

Just finished 12hrs P95; 2511MHz @ 264 X 9.5, 1.475V, 35c-55c.
Memory 418MHz, 2.5-3-3-6 T1 (divider @ 333MHz), 2.8V
HT bus @ 1056MHz (X4)
I will try to tighten-up my memory timings a little, but that’s it for my CPU.

Edited: Forgot, my unit is a: ADA4400CDBOX
Apparently ADV max operating temp is 71c, while the ADA is 65c.
So the ADV should be able to handle higher VCC.
August 19, 2006 7:35:16 AM

Quote:
Well I just installed the 4400 into my machine and was up till 4 exploring different possibilities. I set the speed and timing of my RAM to 266 DDR and HTT to 3X to focus on the CPU. I have an Asus a8N-E and OCZ Gold and Platinum memory.


Up until 4 tweaking the OC... Why does that sound familiar?

Quote:
Currently I get 2.4Ghz with 1.45V and 2.62Ghz with 1.51V (but not prime stable)


I still have not dug up my notes from some previous tweaking with my 4400+ OC, so I did some checks tonight. I'm good for 2.46GHz at 1.39V. To get to 2.5, I've got to step the VCC up a notch. At 1.39V and 2.4GHz, my peak load temps are running 47 to 49C in 3DM06. One thing I hadn't noticed before is that each MHz of HT yields an increase in the 3DM06 CPU score of about 8 points. At stock clock, I get a CPU score of about 1680 and at 218 (x11=2.4GHz) I get about 1820. I'm using the less expensive OCZ DDR500 (3-4-3-8) 2x1GB RAM. I've also got some mushkin DDR500 that has tighter timings (3-3-2-8) that I can try if I get around to it. I'm currently using it in my game box where eeking out more OC is more important to me.

Quote:
Does anyone know the typical overclocks for these processors? Mine seems a little volt hungry.


A few months ago, I was told that ~2.5GHz was typical without much work and 2.8 was fairly rare. (On air) I need my 4400+ machine to be rock solid and dependable so I'm running it at 2.4 even though I've been stable at 2.5. Thing is, the little VCC bump required to get me stable at 2.5 is enough to send the temps up and I'm just not willing to risk shortening the life of this CPU. I'd like it to last a long time.

I have no idea how those emoticons got into my RAM timings? They should be 8's...
August 20, 2006 7:57:17 AM

8+) = 8) , found that out the other day.

Unable to get to CAS 2, but was able to set Tras to 5 for a final Ram timing of
2.5-3-3-5 T1 @ 418MHz
August 20, 2006 1:17:34 PM

Quote:
Just finished 12hrs P95; 2511MHz @ 264 X 9.5, 1.475V, 35c-55c.
Memory 418MHz, 2.5-3-3-6 T1 (divider @ 333MHz), 2.8V
HT bus @ 1056MHz (X4)
I will try to tighten-up my memory timings a little, but that’s it for my CPU.


Did you try a x10 multiplier at those settings or at a slightly lower FSB?
August 20, 2006 10:55:07 PM

check my sig for details of my overclock, 55c at full load, prime95 stable for 5 hours(thats all i ran it for, while i was at work).

just realised i didnt put the validation link in this sig,

here it is

http://valid.x86-secret.com/show_oc?id=101494

August 21, 2006 10:12:53 PM

Hi everyone....after all this time, I finally registered LOL

Running on a ASUS A8NSLI Prem & Stock 4400+ cooler

39C Idle, 42C Load
I had it running at 2.53ghz... Is there anything I could improve?


August 22, 2006 1:51:29 PM

Wow, nice results. I'm at 62C on stock cooler with artic silver and I need to put in 1.5 volts to reach 2.5. Do you have the ADV or ADA model?


I tried stock speed and 12 hours prime stable at 1.22 volts. Anyone else trying low voltage at stock speed?
August 22, 2006 2:08:42 PM

How do you determine which version you have (ADV or ADA)?

I am still in disbelief that HTT runs at 1250. I am thinking about pushing the cpu even more but changing the mix so I get a lower HTT. I also am running OCZ memory. I was a major corsair fan until I bought OCZ.


Core Duo may be faster, but not a better value.
!