PNA; Residential power line ethernet; How well does it wor..

[Guest]

Archived from groups: comp.dcom.lans.ethernet,comp.dcom.cabling (More info?)

Is anyone actually using PNA ? ISTM if it's actually being used there
would be the inevitable discussion of security, good or bad.

Is it secure ?

Does it work in high-density housing (apartment buildings)

What can interfere with it ?

When is it an inappropriate solution ?

Does it really get 10Mb/sec thruput ?

How good is are the IP drivers that come with the USB network
adapters ?

Is the current standard stable ?






--
Al Dykes
-----------
adykes at p a n i x . c o m

 

[Chris]

Archived from groups: comp.dcom.lans.ethernet,comp.dcom.cabling (More info?)

On 22 May 2004 11:50:41 -0400, adykes@panix.com (Al Dykes) wrote:

>
>Is anyone actually using PNA ? ISTM if it's actually being used there
>would be the inevitable discussion of security, good or bad.
>
>Is it secure ?
>
>Does it work in high-density housing (apartment buildings)
>
>What can interfere with it ?
>
>When is it an inappropriate solution ?
>
>Does it really get 10Mb/sec thruput ?
>
>How good is are the IP drivers that come with the USB network
>adapters ?
>
>Is the current standard stable ?


I image the security issues would be no different than most cable
installations.

-Chris

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: comp.dcom.lans.ethernet,comp.dcom.cabling (More info?)

chris@nospam.com wrote:

> On 22 May 2004 11:50:41 -0400, adykes@panix.com (Al Dykes) wrote:
>
>>
>>Is anyone actually using PNA ? ISTM if it's actually being used there
>>would be the inevitable discussion of security, good or bad.
>>
>>Is it secure ?
>>
>>Does it work in high-density housing (apartment buildings)
>>
>>What can interfere with it ?
>>
>>When is it an inappropriate solution ?
>>
>>Does it really get 10Mb/sec thruput ?
>>
>>How good is are the IP drivers that come with the USB network
>>adapters ?
>>
>>Is the current standard stable ?
>
>
> I image the security issues would be no different than most cable
> installations.

With standard ethernet, your network is not exposed to your neighbours.
With power line networking, it might be.


--

Fundamentalism is fundamentally wrong.

To reply to this message, replace everything to the left of "@" with
james.knott.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: comp.dcom.lans.ethernet (More info?)

In article <vK1sc.125119$0qd.3963@twister01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>,
James Knott <bit_bucket@rogers.com> wrote:
>chris@nospam.com wrote:
>
>> On 22 May 2004 11:50:41 -0400, adykes@panix.com (Al Dykes) wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>Is anyone actually using PNA ? ISTM if it's actually being used there
>>>would be the inevitable discussion of security, good or bad.
>>>
>>>Is it secure ?
>>>
>>>Does it work in high-density housing (apartment buildings)
>>>
>>>What can interfere with it ?
>>>
>>>When is it an inappropriate solution ?
>>>
>>>Does it really get 10Mb/sec thruput ?
>>>
>>>How good is are the IP drivers that come with the USB network
>>>adapters ?
>>>
>>>Is the current standard stable ?
>>
>>
>> I image the security issues would be no different than most cable
>> installations.
>
>With standard ethernet, your network is not exposed to your neighbours.
>With power line networking, it might be.
>
>

I know that. I'm asking about what kind of securty is built into the
PNA equipment.

A clarification; I don't intend to use PNA between units in an
apattment building. Just within apartments.


--
Al Dykes
-----------
adykes at p a n i x . c o m

 

[Chris]

Archived from groups: comp.dcom.lans.ethernet (More info?)

On Sun, 23 May 2004 13:33:15 GMT, James Knott <bit_bucket@rogers.com>
wrote:

>chris@nospam.com wrote:
>
>> On 22 May 2004 11:50:41 -0400, adykes@panix.com (Al Dykes) wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>Is anyone actually using PNA ? ISTM if it's actually being used there
>>>would be the inevitable discussion of security, good or bad.
>>>
>>>Is it secure ?
>>>
>>>Does it work in high-density housing (apartment buildings)
>>>
>>>What can interfere with it ?
>>>
>>>When is it an inappropriate solution ?
>>>
>>>Does it really get 10Mb/sec thruput ?
>>>
>>>How good is are the IP drivers that come with the USB network
>>>adapters ?
>>>
>>>Is the current standard stable ?
>>
>>
>> I image the security issues would be no different than most cable
>> installations.
>
>With standard ethernet, your network is not exposed to your neighbours.
>With power line networking, it might be.

Perhaps, I should have said cable modems. With a modified cable
modem, you can indeed see other peoples traffic.

 

[JJ]

Archived from groups: comp.dcom.lans.ethernet (More info?)

Do you have any links to cable modems that were put into promiscuous mode ?

I didn't think it was possible to sniff cable modem traffic.
<chris@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:82o2b0d0vvhp7l0b5ahsvrsgu2lqqv3062@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 23 May 2004 13:33:15 GMT, James Knott <bit_bucket@rogers.com>
> wrote:
>
> >chris@nospam.com wrote:
> >
> >> On 22 May 2004 11:50:41 -0400, adykes@panix.com (Al Dykes) wrote:
> >>
> >>>
> >>>Is anyone actually using PNA ? ISTM if it's actually being used there
> >>>would be the inevitable discussion of security, good or bad.
> >>>
> >>>Is it secure ?
> >>>
> >>>Does it work in high-density housing (apartment buildings)
> >>>
> >>>What can interfere with it ?
> >>>
> >>>When is it an inappropriate solution ?
> >>>
> >>>Does it really get 10Mb/sec thruput ?
> >>>
> >>>How good is are the IP drivers that come with the USB network
> >>>adapters ?
> >>>
> >>>Is the current standard stable ?
> >>
> >>
> >> I image the security issues would be no different than most cable
> >> installations.
> >
> >With standard ethernet, your network is not exposed to your neighbours.
> >With power line networking, it might be.
>
> Perhaps, I should have said cable modems. With a modified cable
> modem, you can indeed see other peoples traffic.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: comp.dcom.lans.ethernet (More info?)

JJ wrote:

> Do you have any links to cable modems that were put into promiscuous mode ?

I thought they were encrypted, so even if you did get it
to promiscuous mode you still wouldn't see the data without
a lot of work.

(Snip discussion on security and PNA)

-- glen

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: comp.dcom.lans.ethernet (More info?)

In article <2het4dFc6fbkU1@uni-berlin.de>, JJ <Sonbo@comcast.net> wrote:
>Do you have any links to cable modems that were put into promiscuous mode ?
>
>I didn't think it was possible to sniff cable modem traffic.


One of the glossy Linux magazines recently had a article that showed
the insides of a cable modem. The author identified circuit board pins
that were a serial tty interface. he hooked up a tty and found
himself logged in as root in the vxworks system.

He was able to disable the firewall function and let his LAN see
all the traffic on the cable side. He was also able to modify
the configuration, save it on another system, then reflash
his cable modem, so it became permenant.

So he says.


--
Al Dykes
-----------
adykes at p a n i x . c o m

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: comp.dcom.lans.ethernet (More info?)

Al Dykes wrote:

> In article <2het4dFc6fbkU1@uni-berlin.de>, JJ <Sonbo@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>>Do you have any links to cable modems that were put into promiscuous mode ?
>>
>>I didn't think it was possible to sniff cable modem traffic.
>
>
>
> One of the glossy Linux magazines recently had a article that showed
> the insides of a cable modem. The author identified circuit board pins
> that were a serial tty interface. he hooked up a tty and found
> himself logged in as root in the vxworks system.
>
> He was able to disable the firewall function and let his LAN see
> all the traffic on the cable side. He was also able to modify
> the configuration, save it on another system, then reflash
> his cable modem, so it became permenant.
>
> So he says.

Would seem to be true. Look at http://www.tcniso.net/

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: comp.dcom.lans.ethernet,comp.dcom.cabling (More info?)

Al Dykes wrote:

> Is anyone actually using PNA ? ISTM if it's actually being used there
> would be the inevitable discussion of security, good or bad.
>
> Is it secure ?
>
> Does it work in high-density housing (apartment buildings)
>
> What can interfere with it ?
>
> When is it an inappropriate solution ?
>
> Does it really get 10Mb/sec thruput ?
>
> How good is are the IP drivers that come with the USB network
> adapters ?
>
> Is the current standard stable ?

What really matters with powerline ethernet is how much NOISE is on the
electrical line. If you neighbor turns on their blender or vacuum
cleaner, things may likely get hosed.

-Sean

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: comp.dcom.lans.ethernet (More info?)

The NTIA http://www.arrl.org/news/stories/2004/04/29/1/
and FEMA
http://gullfoss2.fcc.gov/prod/ecfs/retrieve.cgi?native_or_pdf=pdf&id_document=6516086099
both think that PNA will cause and receive interference from
various radio sources such as aircraft, low band public safety,
and HF users.

In comp.dcom.lans.ethernet, message
<10b9gslh0gka246@corp.supernews.com>, Sean Weintz
<strap@hanh-ct.org> wrote:

>Al Dykes wrote:
>
>> Is anyone actually using PNA ? ISTM if it's actually being used there
>> would be the inevitable discussion of security, good or bad.
>>
>> Is it secure ?
>>
>> Does it work in high-density housing (apartment buildings)
>>
>> What can interfere with it ?
>>
>> When is it an inappropriate solution ?
>>
>> Does it really get 10Mb/sec thruput ?
>>
>> How good is are the IP drivers that come with the USB network
>> adapters ?
>>
>> Is the current standard stable ?
>
>What really matters with powerline ethernet is how much NOISE is on the
>electrical line. If you neighbor turns on their blender or vacuum
>cleaner, things may likely get hosed.
>
>-Sean


Keith Diehl - Salt Lake City
spam free email form at http://www.xmission.com/~kdiehl/mail.html

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: comp.dcom.lans.ethernet (More info?)

In article <57veb0takhflf3pjhmj3uahr8q3u46feq0@4ax.com>,
Keith Diehl <Address@BottomOf.Page> wrote:
>The NTIA http://www.arrl.org/news/stories/2004/04/29/1/
> and FEMA
>http://gullfoss2.fcc.gov/prod/ecfs/retrieve.cgi?native_or_pdf=pdf&id_document=6516086099
>both think that PNA will cause and receive interference from
>various radio sources such as aircraft, low band public safety,
>and HF users.

They are talking about BPL (broadband over Power Lines), not PNA. I
know tha hams are upset about BPL. I've never heard of PNA interfering
with anything. I have no idea if BPL and PNA have any common issues.

Based on the relevant comments so far it appeasr that NOBODY uses PNA.


>
>In comp.dcom.lans.ethernet, message
><10b9gslh0gka246@corp.supernews.com>, Sean Weintz
><strap@hanh-ct.org> wrote:
>
>>Al Dykes wrote:
>>
>>> Is anyone actually using PNA ? ISTM if it's actually being used there
>>> would be the inevitable discussion of security, good or bad.
>>>
>>> Is it secure ?
>>>
>>> Does it work in high-density housing (apartment buildings)
>>>
>>> What can interfere with it ?
>>>
>>> When is it an inappropriate solution ?
>>>
>>> Does it really get 10Mb/sec thruput ?
>>>
>>> How good is are the IP drivers that come with the USB network
>>> adapters ?
>>>
>>> Is the current standard stable ?
>>
>>What really matters with powerline ethernet is how much NOISE is on the
>>electrical line. If you neighbor turns on their blender or vacuum
>>cleaner, things may likely get hosed.
>>
>>-Sean
>
>
>Keith Diehl - Salt Lake City
>spam free email form at http://www.xmission.com/~kdiehl/mail.html


--
Al Dykes
-----------
adykes at p a n i x . c o m