Logitech Z-5450 vs. Z-5500

halcyon

Splendid
I'm almost embarrassed to post this. I would not purchase Logitech speakers at their normal price. However, I am able to get the Z-5450's from Dell for $150 or the Z-5500's for $130 through my work, if I act today. Though I'm no real fan of Logitech speakers I think they may be worth $150.

For an apartment which would be the better choice? I know the Z-5500 are more popular and may sound better but the semi-wireless of the Z-5450's is attractive as well. There's no way I'm going to get to enjoy the bass potential of either as, again, I'm in an apartment.

Should I just skip this and not waste up to $150 or is this something I shouldn't miss?
 

halcyon

Splendid
As I read through the reviews I see that I can probably rule out the Z-5450's compared to the Z-5500's. It seems the Z-5500's are bass heavy (and in more than one review they recommend turning down the bass to even out the sound). However, all reviewers seem to like these speakers, and I've read about 8 reviews so far. They don't seem to be the best for music but for $162 delivered I might as well pick them up.

I read that the satellites beam like lasers, not good, and I imagine vertical dispersion isn't great either, but what the heck? ...end of summer snack. :roll:
 

halcyon

Splendid
Its a promotion Dell's having for its EPP (Federal Employee Purchase). Our customer care rep e-mailed my team-lead. I have about an hour to make up my mind, there's a bunch of concessions it seems like I have to make with these speakers, but for the price I dare not whine too loudly. I understand the bass is somewhat over-powering, my new neighbors will not appreciate that. ...but it can be throttled back.

Since these likely sound better than the Bose Companion 3's I tried, and are considerably less expensive, they should be okay, since I don't have any descent PC speakers now anyways (hear me trying to convince myself?).

Its just a shame the speaker cables are attached and there's no vertical adjustment for the satellites. :?
 

MrCommunistGen

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Personally I'd skip it and put the money towards some real speakers. I have a pair of Infinity Alpha 10 (5.25" 2 way) speakers hooked up to a 60s era Pioneer receiver (10W per channel) and my dorm-roommate who had a several hundred watt 5.1 Logitech sub-sat system was so impressed/envious that he went out, bought a decent receiver and some Alpha 20s (6.5" 2 way), and eBay'ed his Logitechs. We then hooked up the 4 speakers and got some serious 4 channel stereo going in our tiny dorm room.

-mcg
 

halcyon

Splendid
I love the sound of Infinity's...their so light and airy sounding. With a decent sub its a really refreshing sound. You may be right, maybe I should skip this. I have enough toys laying around.
 

4Aces

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There's only one name for computer speakers if you want it to sound good for everything from games to mozart. KLIPSCH, pair a set of promedia 5.1's with a sound blaster X-fi and then you'll see why it was a good idea to not get the logitechs. I see alot of their sat speakers from these sets for sale on ebay which tells me people are buying it for the sub alone and dumping the silly plug speakers for something else. There'll probably be some shareware program that you have to cancel each time the speakers are turned on knowing Dell.
 

DaveUK

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I have the Z-5450's for the sole reason that they have wireless rear speakers.

It's a niche market, if you need this then great. If not I'd have spent my money elsewhere :) Z-5500 ftw if you have a bargain available to you.
 

halcyon

Splendid
I went ahead and purchased them. I don't know where I else I can get 5.1 with a reasonable sub for $162 delivered. No coupon code, but if you've got an FDA badge ID....

I still want my B&K gear and am looking at the AV123's for my audio rig, but the Logitechs will hopefully be passable for the loft. I hope they send the version with the detachable speaker cables.
 

halcyon

Splendid
the cheapest i can find is 300 after tax and shipping...

...as much business as FDA has done with Dell?! I don't think its hurting Dell to try to leave a descent taste in our mouth. We've spent millions over the past 12 years with Dell. Only now are we beginning to look @ IBM/Lenevo (mistake). ...and while I don't love Dell, I sure as heck like them more than poorly engineered IBM desktops thrown together by 3rd party vendors with little care to quality control. ...but the taxpayers want their government employees to be using the cheapest equipment that is passable, and I can't blame them. So Dell is going to start losing some money from us. Dell makes a descent office PC and I've always had good experiences with their tech support. I hope they can bring their prices back into FDA's targets soon, they make a pretty supportable office PC, IMO.

...irrelevant, just my rants. I'll be curious to hear how the mouse-maker's top-of-the-line speakers sound.
 

SuperFly03

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I have the previous generation Logitech Z-680's and I really enjoy them. They are extremely loud. They are not the most precise things on the planet (1-way sats) but damn they are loud. It takes a bit of tinkering to balance out the bass and get the most volume out of them.

Of course my home theater reciever is better but it cost me $300 just for the reciever and I got the entire Z-680 set for about $300 (what, 4 years ago? 8O ).

The problem I run into is connections. Connecting a PC to an A/V reciever via RCA connections loses the 5.1 surround sound necessary in BF2, but doesn't make too much diffrent if you are using a 2 channel source. I tried optical out from my X-Fi but the sound never came through as 5.1 even though the source was a DVD-Audio. It was weird.

All in all I think it was a good value purchase.

PS- if anyone has tips on getting 5.1 from PC to A/V reciever via optical I am willing to enertain ideas. I could try the digital out (not optical) that requires a 1/8" to optical cable but I'm not so sure about that. Any thoughts?
 

halcyon

Splendid
The X-Fi's in all their glory (not) can only push out 2-channel stereo through its digital output. I mean, why would anyone want 5.1, 6.1, or 7.1 digital output?! Dolt, Creative!

As for the Z-5500's, I've to see how I can set them up so as to make up for their laser-like dispersion (according to 1 review) and lack of pivoting stands. ...I'm sure I can find some low cost descent looking 20"-24" TV stands somewhere. Yeah, I'll just aim them at my head, that's it. I've a feeling I won't be using them for the primary HT for long, but playing with them should be fun.

Anyone that has them, is the dispersion really as bad as I've read? I read that they sound great as long as you're in their sweetspot, but drop off almost instantly outside it. I'm just curious as to what I should expect, besides a lot of bass.
 

astrallite

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The Logitechs are worthwhile for a desk option. I had the Z-680s and I've heard the Z-5500s. Their main weakness I would say is voices/midrange, and you can definitely tell what direction the sound is coming from (the transistor radio effect) but they are pretty fun speakers for games.

I had to run the sub on minimum most of the time (don't have this problem with my current setup), because upper bass (the more audible bass) is quite peaky; back in the day Logitech did admit they engineered a 90hz +10db spike on the sub to mask the hole in the crossover region at 120hz, but this has a *slight* problem of overpowering the sats.

For about 2 years of gaming, I definitely didn't have any complaints though. It was trying to listen to music or movies that sort of didn't quite pan out so well.
 

halcyon

Splendid
Hmmmm...thanks, and that is what I'd use these for. I'll really try them, they did get some decent reviews. They can always go in the bedroom for an ipod if they don't work anywhere else. I was attracted to their having the decoder with the digital inputs. For >$200 it still seems like they may still be a descent value.

Just for my edification, what is it that makes the dispersion so directional? The 3" cone or the phase plug ...or the fact that the 2 are mated together (I don't mean to sound so ignorant, I'm just trying to understand).

...just saw this, based on your other post: http://www.tnt-audio.com/ampli/t-amp_e.html ...interesting.
 

dmantech

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Go for the Z5500's because I saw reviews stating that the wireless function is'nt all that great. Personally I recommend the Z5500's because I own a pair myself and they're awesome.
 

astrallite

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Hmmmm...thanks, and that is what I'd use these for. I'll really try them, they did get some decent reviews. They can always go in the bedroom for an ipod if they don't work anywhere else. I was attracted to their having the decoder with the digital inputs. For >$200 it still seems like they may still be a descent value.

Yeah, they are in a niche of their own. While the Creative G5s cost around the same, they lack the integrated decoder and connectivity.

Klipsch has been cutting its prices and the 5.1 Ultra has been $200 at Best Buys nationwide the last 3 months, but I can guarantee you at this point 99% of BBs are out of those, so this is the next best thing.

Just for my edification, what is it that makes the dispersion so directional? The 3" cone or the phase plug ...or the fact that the 2 are mated together (I don't mean to sound so ignorant, I'm just trying to understand).

The phase plug isn't an acoustic device, it just there to cool the voice coil (the phase plugs on my Ascends are freezing cold even hot days) and reduce distortion by adding more voice coil/driver mass. They don't move with the actual flexing part of the driver to produce frequencies.

One-way designs are by nature directional, because high frequencies are the culprit. They cause drivers to shoot forward like a laser (if you ever use a microphone, you'll see what it means; you can measure a 6.5" driver up to 75 degrees to either side at 2m and still get 95% consistent output...on a tweeter, if you are off by as little as an inch in an open chamber, you get basically NO output). This is why there are tweeters (so that the midrange can be properly propogated in a wide area, rather be constricted, and limit the speaker from many people being able to listen to it, to just the person sitting directly in front of it).

This is why in music, they say aim the tweeters to your ears, and at ear-level--because they don't disperse at all (they might bounce about in a small room though, slightly improving dispersion). In home theater, the midrange (vocals) are the most important, so that's why single tweeter designs have worked so far (the highs aren't that audible anyway).

The problem with a 1-way design with 3" drivers is that, first, the highs aren't that audible, but the 3" drivers (which aren't good at reproducing them anyway), are forced to, so the driver dispersion suffers. So, this design really is only going to work for listening in a small area.

...just saw this, based on your other post: http://www.tnt-audio.com/ampli/t-amp_e.html ...interesting.

Class D and Class T are various designs that were studied in the mid and late 90s and only recently came into fruition, partly because of the market, and partly because of problems they didn't understand (high frequency distortion, which has been more or less solved). They are cheap as heck to make, and are cleaner than analog designs, provide power at the truckloads, and have abysmally low heat generation (because they don't use up huge amounts of idle power. Classic analog designs are like helicopter gas turbine engines. Even if its idle, its still burning a hell of a lot of gas).

Panasonic's digital line as well as the Sonic T-amp are examples of low and medium powered Class-D entry-level products. Some companies, like Sony, Samsung, H&K and various other companies are more interested in a profit, so they've been milking their analog products (their flagship 150W/channel receivers) and they are both trying to maximize profit as well as give digital a big splash when they officially kick it into the market--alot of their market entry digital designs are 250W+ 7.1 behemoth receivers at $5,000 pricetag (they are charging it like an analog product, because more expensive means better, right?) whereas some of the entry-level gear is just as clean, and only costs $100-200, and power wise more than holds its own against current analog flagships in the $1k region in terms of power and distortion.
 

halcyon

Splendid
Thanks man, it makes more sense now. From reading some of the hype it sounds like they'd mated they'd mated the tweeter and the midrange together, like they were both there, just using the same axis. Now, if I finally understand correctly, the tweeter's simply missing, there's just one full-range driver. I read like every review I could find, must've read 10 or more and that hadn't been quite clear.

I typically sit on the floor to listen to music (been doing that for 30 years). I'll likely experiment with just placing the sats on the floor with them aimed upwards at my listening position.

I'd read that there were problems with the Klipsch ProMedia Ultra's subwoofer. that made me not even consider them. Do you know if those problems have been remedied?

Thanks for the info on Class D and Class T amps, I was kind of amazed at that ~$30 amp.
 

astrallite

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Thanks man, it makes more sense now. From reading some of the hype it sounds like they'd mated they'd mated the tweeter and the midrange together, like they were both there, just using the same axis. Now, if I finally understand correctly, the tweeter's simply missing, there's just one full-range driver. I read like every review I could find, must've read 10 or more and that hadn't been quite clear.

I think Logitech was saying something along the lines of "well the phase plug reduces distortion, so the midrange can play highs better, so its like having a tweeter. But, it's not, since tweeters were designed to solve the problem of one-way systems (which is weak dispersion). All the plase plug really does is make it a slightly better one-way sat.

I'd read that there were problems with the Klipsch ProMedia Ultra's subwoofer. that made me not even consider them. Do you know if those problems have been remedied?

The Promedia Ultra is such an old set that the circulation of different variants are huge. Getting an Ultra via retail would be like playing Russian roulette--you might get an older system, you might get a newer one. The alternative is to pay through the nose and buy directly from Klipsch, which isn't really realistic obivously for the deal-hunter.

Thanks for the info on Class D and Class T amps, I was kind of amazed at that ~$30 amp.

No prob. Though it's sort of the budget pet amp these days, if I didn't tell you, you would've found out eventually =P
 

Arucard

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Well, too late to put in my 2c, then, but you did what I would have advised. I'm using the 5500s in a 10'x10' room. The thing with the 5450s is they're not exactly wireless, you still need an AC socket for each rear speaker, which can be more of a hassel than cabling the ones for the 5500s.
 

paybax

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WORD :D
I got em as well and I love em, my favorite saying about these babies is that the bass KICKS @ss and the sound is so awsome and loud that it'll kill BACTERIA On the wall :wink:
PC mag says though that the 5450's have an annoying hiss from the rear sats

RIG specs
Antec P180 PerformanceSeries Mid-Tower Case
SeaSonic S12 600 watt power supply
Asus A8N32 SLI mobo AMD N-Force 4 SLIX16 (bios 1103 V02.58)
RealTek 97 onboard digital 5.1 Surround
AMD Athlon 64 X2 4800+ Toledo Core, 2 X 1mb L2 cache (AMD driver 1.3.1.0 w/MS hotfix & AMD Dual Core Optimizer)
2 gigs of Corsair TwinX3500LL Pro @ 437Mhz 2-3-2-6-1T
2- BFG 7900 GT OC 256mb in SLI (nvidia driver 91.31)
Western Digital RAPTOR 74.3 gig 10-K rpm HDD for XP & Apps
Maxtor SATA II 250 G HDD for gaming, movies, MP3's
Maxtor SATA II 250 G HDD for document backup (unplugged)
Sony CDrom 52X
Plextor 708-A DVD/CD rom
 

halcyon

Splendid
WORD :D
I got em as well and I love em, my favorite saying about these babies is that the bass KICKS @ss and the sound is so awsome and loud that it'll kill BACTERIA On the wall :wink:
PC mag says though that the 5450's have an annoying hiss from the rear sats

RIG specs
Antec P180 PerformanceSeries Mid-Tower Case
SeaSonic S12 600 watt power supply
Asus A8N32 SLI mobo AMD N-Force 4 SLIX16 (bios 1103 V02.58)
RealTek 97 onboard digital 5.1 Surround
AMD Athlon 64 X2 4800+ Toledo Core, 2 X 1mb L2 cache (AMD driver 1.3.1.0 w/MS hotfix & AMD Dual Core Optimizer)
2 gigs of Corsair TwinX3500LL Pro @ 437Mhz 2-3-2-6-1T
2- BFG 7900 GT OC 256mb in SLI (nvidia driver 91.31)
Western Digital RAPTOR 74.3 gig 10-K rpm HDD for XP & Apps
Maxtor SATA II 250 G HDD for gaming, movies, MP3's
Maxtor SATA II 250 G HDD for document backup (unplugged)
Sony CDrom 52X
Plextor 708-A DVD/CD rom

They kill bacteria on the wall? That should prove useful. I'm looking forward to seeing how bad or good these little puppies are. I'm sure they'll be at least adequate for the price and the "annoy-thy-neighbor" factor I've read that they provide.