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Inks for i400 and i950 printer

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Anonymous
June 23, 2005 9:49:11 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Because of problems with Canon i950, I bought a Canon ip4000 this afternoon.
What I noticed was the differences in numbers of ink carts. Six ink
carts were used for i950, but only 5 carts for ip4000. Two black carts
BCL-6BK and BCL-3eBK must be installed for ip4000. I am confused on
this. Are these two different colors? What's the heck two black colors?
Could someone tell me what is the difference between two black carts?
Secondly, with 5 colors could ip4000 produce good color prints as i950?
Satoshi

More about : inks i400 i950 printer

June 24, 2005 12:53:48 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

> Hmmm...I've always wondered about this, too. Are the two blacks the same
> 'color', but pigmented is better for use on non-coated, or high rag
> content, whereas dye based is for photographic papers?

I have both the mp760 and an ip3000 which as no dye black. The pigment
black ends up being very flat on glossy paper and adds an almost raised
effect on photos in contrast to the dye colors. Some friends saw the
first output from the ip3000 and liked it because the blacks looked
blacker then another printer I had that used dye everything. I
disagree but hey strongly but hey, given my application for the ip3000
is cd printing i'm not too worried about it.

The pigmented black is cool because it's big and tends to cost you less
per page than the 15ml tiny dye black.
Anonymous
June 24, 2005 5:28:42 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

You should be more than pleased with the output from the iP4000. I prefer it
to the my i950. The iP4000 lacks the PM & PC tanks but I haven't noticed
that as a problem. If anything it's an advantage since the pinkish tint
problem that seems to plague so many i950 printers has not been a problem
with the iP4000. As to the black ink question, the BCI-6bk tank (photo
black) is dye based and is used for printing with all paper settings. The
BCI-3ebk is pigmented black and is only used for plain paper mode. You will
also see it referred to as text black or used for text printing, but that is
incorrect. The pigmented black is used for both text and photos (how would
the printer know anyway?), but only in plain paper mode. It is not used for
any other paper settings.
--
Ron

"satoshi" <satoshi@thuntek.net> wrote in message
news:D 9fio1$o56$1@reader2.nmix.net...
> Because of problems with Canon i950, I bought a Canon ip4000 this
> afternoon.
> What I noticed was the differences in numbers of ink carts. Six ink
> carts were used for i950, but only 5 carts for ip4000. Two black carts
> BCL-6BK and BCL-3eBK must be installed for ip4000. I am confused on
> this. Are these two different colors? What's the heck two black colors?
> Could someone tell me what is the difference between two black carts?
> Secondly, with 5 colors could ip4000 produce good color prints as i950?
> Satoshi
>
Related resources
June 24, 2005 5:28:43 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

"Ron Cohen" <d+r+c+0+2+3@sbcXXXglobalYYY.ZZZnet> wrote in
news:elJue.1845$W74.192@newssvr30.news.prodigy.com:

> You should be more than pleased with the output from the iP4000. I
> prefer it to the my i950. The iP4000 lacks the PM & PC tanks but I
> haven't noticed that as a problem. If anything it's an advantage since
> the pinkish tint problem that seems to plague so many i950 printers
> has not been a problem with the iP4000. As to the black ink question,
> the BCI-6bk tank (photo black) is dye based and is used for printing
> with all paper settings. The BCI-3ebk is pigmented black and is only
> used for plain paper mode. You will also see it referred to as text
> black or used for text printing, but that is incorrect. The pigmented
> black is used for both text and photos (how would the printer know
> anyway?), but only in plain paper mode. It is not used for any other
> paper settings.

Hmmm...I've always wondered about this, too. Are the two blacks the same
'color', but pigmented is better for use on non-coated, or high rag
content, whereas dye based is for photographic papers?

I just printed the same text document twice, both times on plain paper,
but once using the plain paper setting, and once using the Photo Paper
Pro setting (Canon MP760). Both looked the same 'color', but the plain
paper setting produced a slightly, but noticable, crisper output.

Sincerely,
Bruce
Anonymous
June 24, 2005 5:28:44 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

"Bruce" <parcxman@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:Xns967EC65ADE10Dparcxmannetscapenet@216.196.97.136...

> Hmmm...I've always wondered about this, too. Are the two blacks the same
> 'color', but pigmented is better for use on non-coated, or high rag
> content, whereas dye based is for photographic papers?

Yes, the pigmented ink is not generally compatible with glossy photo papers.
Additionally, the drop size for the pigmented black is generally much larger
than for the dye based black. The pigmented printhead is tuned for text
printing, the dye based printhead is tuned for graphics and photos.

> I just printed the same text document twice, both times on plain paper,
> but once using the plain paper setting, and once using the Photo Paper
> Pro setting (Canon MP760). Both looked the same 'color', but the plain
> paper setting produced a slightly, but noticable, crisper output.

The pigmented black ink will generally giver sharper edge definition. Also,
printing with photo paper selected uses more ink and may have exceeded the
capacity of plain paper to handle it.

Regards,
Bob Headrick, MS MVP Printing/Imaging
Anonymous
June 24, 2005 2:10:42 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Thanks Ron for your informative posting.
Before I got i950, I also bought Canon s520. I still use S520 at home.
s520 uses BCI-3eBK. When I looked at both BCI-3eBK and BCI-6BK, they did
not say whether they are pigment- or dye-based inks.
I now used OEM BCI-3eBK ink. The OEM label did not say either. Could
you tell me how to tell pigmented black from dye-based black.
I might have used both without knowing whether they are pigment- or
dye-based ink. satoshi




"Ron Cohen" <d+r+c+0+2+3@sbcXXXglobalYYY.ZZZnet> wrote in message
news:elJue.1845$W74.192@newssvr30.news.prodigy.com...
> You should be more than pleased with the output from the iP4000. I prefer
> it to the my i950. The iP4000 lacks the PM & PC tanks but I haven't
> noticed that as a problem. If anything it's an advantage since the pinkish
> tint problem that seems to plague so many i950 printers has not been a
> problem with the iP4000. As to the black ink question, the BCI-6bk tank
> (photo black) is dye based and is used for printing with all paper
> settings. The BCI-3ebk is pigmented black and is only used for plain paper
> mode. You will also see it referred to as text black or used for text
> printing, but that is incorrect. The pigmented black is used for both text
> and photos (how would the printer know anyway?), but only in plain paper
> mode. It is not used for any other paper settings.
> --
> Ron
>
Anonymous
June 24, 2005 10:51:27 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

If you are referring to ink tanks, then it's very easy to determine. The
BCI-3ebk (pigmented) is almost twice the width of the BCI-6bk (dye base). If
you are referring to bottles of ink which may not have labels, the easiest
way is to take a cotton swab or tissue, dip it lightly in the ink and then
wipe it on a piece of scrap glossy photo paper. If the ink is pigmented it
will have a bronzing effect, but dye based black will be a glossy black.
--
Ron

"Satoshi" <machocraig@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:D 9hci3$njg$1@reader2.nmix.net...
> Thanks Ron for your informative posting.
> Before I got i950, I also bought Canon s520. I still use S520 at home.
> s520 uses BCI-3eBK. When I looked at both BCI-3eBK and BCI-6BK, they did
> not say whether they are pigment- or dye-based inks.
> I now used OEM BCI-3eBK ink. The OEM label did not say either. Could
> you tell me how to tell pigmented black from dye-based black.
> I might have used both without knowing whether they are pigment- or
> dye-based ink. satoshi
>
>
>
>
> "Ron Cohen" <d+r+c+0+2+3@sbcXXXglobalYYY.ZZZnet> wrote in message
> news:elJue.1845$W74.192@newssvr30.news.prodigy.com...
>> You should be more than pleased with the output from the iP4000. I prefer
>> it to the my i950. The iP4000 lacks the PM & PC tanks but I haven't
>> noticed that as a problem. If anything it's an advantage since the
>> pinkish tint problem that seems to plague so many i950 printers has not
>> been a problem with the iP4000. As to the black ink question, the BCI-6bk
>> tank (photo black) is dye based and is used for printing with all paper
>> settings. The BCI-3ebk is pigmented black and is only used for plain
>> paper mode. You will also see it referred to as text black or used for
>> text printing, but that is incorrect. The pigmented black is used for
>> both text and photos (how would the printer know anyway?), but only in
>> plain paper mode. It is not used for any other paper settings.
>> --
>> Ron
>>
>
>
Anonymous
June 24, 2005 10:51:28 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Thanks Ron again.

After print head alignment, the color of 6BK black looks more grey.
On the other hand, the color of 3eBK is really dark.

Color pictures printed with ip4000 is almost the same as those printed at
Costco.

Regards,

Satoshi



"Ron Cohen" <d+r+c+0+2+3@sbcXXXglobalYYY.ZZZnet> wrote in message
news:p CYue.1656$5w3.777@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com...
> If you are referring to ink tanks, then it's very easy to determine. The
> BCI-3ebk (pigmented) is almost twice the width of the BCI-6bk (dye base).
> If you are referring to bottles of ink which may not have labels, the
> easiest way is to take a cotton swab or tissue, dip it lightly in the ink
> and then wipe it on a piece of scrap glossy photo paper. If the ink is
> pigmented it will have a bronzing effect, but dye based black will be a
> glossy black.
> --
> Ron
Anonymous
June 25, 2005 2:18:42 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Satoshi wrote:

>Thanks Ron for your informative posting.
>Before I got i950, I also bought Canon s520. I still use S520 at home.
>s520 uses BCI-3eBK. When I looked at both BCI-3eBK and BCI-6BK, they did
>not say whether they are pigment- or dye-based inks.
>I now used OEM BCI-3eBK ink. The OEM label did not say either. Could
>you tell me how to tell pigmented black from dye-based black.
>I might have used both without knowing whether they are pigment- or
>dye-based ink. satoshi
>
>

The answer is simple. The BCI-3eBK is pigmented and the cartridge size
is much larger.

>
>
>
>"Ron Cohen" <d+r+c+0+2+3@sbcXXXglobalYYY.ZZZnet> wrote in message
>news:elJue.1845$W74.192@newssvr30.news.prodigy.com...
>
>
>>You should be more than pleased with the output from the iP4000. I prefer
>>it to the my i950. The iP4000 lacks the PM & PC tanks but I haven't
>>noticed that as a problem. If anything it's an advantage since the pinkish
>>tint problem that seems to plague so many i950 printers has not been a
>>problem with the iP4000. As to the black ink question, the BCI-6bk tank
>>(photo black) is dye based and is used for printing with all paper
>>settings. The BCI-3ebk is pigmented black and is only used for plain paper
>>mode. You will also see it referred to as text black or used for text
>>printing, but that is incorrect. The pigmented black is used for both text
>>and photos (how would the printer know anyway?), but only in plain paper
>>mode. It is not used for any other paper settings.
>>--
>>Ron
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
June 25, 2005 2:20:11 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

"Bob Headrick" <bobh@proaxis.com> wrote in
news:11bn1d6okmpo84e@corp.supernews.com:

>
> "Bruce" <parcxman@netscape.net> wrote in message
> news:Xns967EC65ADE10Dparcxmannetscapenet@216.196.97.136...
>
>> Hmmm...I've always wondered about this, too. Are the two blacks the
>> same 'color', but pigmented is better for use on non-coated, or high
>> rag content, whereas dye based is for photographic papers?
>
> Yes, the pigmented ink is not generally compatible with glossy photo
> papers. Additionally, the drop size for the pigmented black is
> generally much larger than for the dye based black. The pigmented
> printhead is tuned for text printing, the dye based printhead is tuned
> for graphics and photos.
>
>> I just printed the same text document twice, both times on plain
>> paper, but once using the plain paper setting, and once using the
>> Photo Paper Pro setting (Canon MP760). Both looked the same 'color',
>> but the plain paper setting produced a slightly, but noticable,
>> crisper output.
>
> The pigmented black ink will generally giver sharper edge definition.
> Also, printing with photo paper selected uses more ink and may have
> exceeded the capacity of plain paper to handle it.

Ah, yes, that's exactly what I am seeing. Plain paper setting, thus
pigmented ink in use, gives slighly crisper text than does Photo Paper
Pro setting, thus dye based ink in use, on plain paper.
>
> Regards,
> Bob Headrick, MS MVP Printing/Imaging
>
>
Thanks much,
Bruce
Anonymous
June 25, 2005 2:21:04 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Ron Cohen wrote:

>If you are referring to ink tanks, then it's very easy to determine. The
>BCI-3ebk (pigmented) is almost twice the width of the BCI-6bk (dye base). If
>you are referring to bottles
>

Canon ink does not come in bottles.

>of ink which may not have labels, the easiest
>way is to take a cotton swab or tissue, dip it lightly in the ink and then
>wipe it on a piece of scrap glossy photo paper. If the ink is pigmented it
>will have a bronzing effect, but dye based black will be a glossy black.
>
>
June 25, 2005 2:35:56 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

"measekite" <inkystinky@oem.com> wrote in message
news:kH%ue.3532$Bx6.1910@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...
>
>
> Ron Cohen wrote:
>
>>If you are referring to ink tanks, then it's very easy to determine. The
>>BCI-3ebk (pigmented) is almost twice the width of the BCI-6bk (dye base).
>>If you are referring to bottles
>
> Canon ink does not come in bottles.

Ron Cohen has been very successful in using bulk Formulabs inks for several
years in his Canon printers. He is obviously referring to bottles of
aftermarket inks that the OP might be trying to identify as dye or pigment
based. It is too bad that Canon inks don't come in bottles, but fortunately
there are good compatable aftermarket products that do at a much reduced
cost to the user.
>
>>of ink which may not have labels, the easiest way is to take a cotton swab
>>or tissue, dip it lightly in the ink and then wipe it on a piece of scrap
>>glossy photo paper. If the ink is pigmented it will have a bronzing
>>effect, but dye based black will be a glossy black.
>>
June 25, 2005 2:48:10 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

As a matter of fact it does, normally 1 US Gallon.
They use bottles to prevent the ink from running all over the floor; a
technique used successfully with liquids for centuries!!!!
Tony

measekite <inkystinky@oem.com> wrote:

>Canon ink does not come in bottles.
Anonymous
June 25, 2005 3:19:44 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Tony Da Tiger is an also ran.

Tony wrote:

>As a matter of fact it does, normally 1 US Gallon.
>They use bottles to prevent the ink from running all over the floor; a
>technique used successfully with liquids for centuries!!!!
>Tony
>
>measekite <inkystinky@oem.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>>Canon ink does not come in bottles.
>>
>>
>
>
>
Anonymous
June 25, 2005 9:49:48 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

A good subject turned into worthless fight. People really need to grow up.

Well, I saw a bit of incorrect understanding about dye based and pigment
based ink. No intention to fight with anyone. You may consider the following
just my 2 cents worth of opinion.

Dye based black ink is actually darker than pigmented black ink. Just use a
cotton swap to catch some black ink by squeezing a black ink cartridge and
use the swap to draw on a piece plain paper. You will see ink from a BCI-3eBK
(pigmented) gets a gray looking but not the black ink from a BCI-6BK.

In order for the pigmented black to look as dark as dye based black the printer
driver is programmed to consume more ink per pixel. That's why the cartridge
(BCI-3eBK) is bigger.

The reason pigmented black ink is used for text printing is because it is better
waterproof than dye based ink. It is also more fade resistant. Pigmented ink is
also much more expensive than dye based ink. It can be twice of the dye based ink.
Many 3rd party BCI-3eBK cartridges, especially cheap ones, are not pre-filled
with pigmented black ink. Most people just can't tell pigmented black from dye based
black.
Anonymous
June 25, 2005 12:53:58 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Burt,

I purchased MIS refill set several times from Costco. The plastic squeeze
bottles with syringe needle on the top did not say any word whether black
ink is pigment- or dye-based ink. They might print it now. I will go and
check at Costco today. Satoshi



"Burt" <sfbjgNOSPAM@pacbell.net> wrote in message
news:LZ0ve.3587$Bx6.1434@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...
>> that are almost impossible to identify since the are not marked.
>
> Sure they are marked. The bottles of ink I use have a printed label from
> MIS including their name, the printer for which the ink is formulated, the
> color, a "use by" date, and the size of the container.
>>
> (snip)
>
Anonymous
June 25, 2005 12:54:08 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Satoshi wrote:
> Burt,
>
> I purchased MIS refill set several times from Costco. The plastic squeeze
> bottles with syringe needle on the top did not say any word whether black
> ink is pigment- or dye-based ink. They might print it now. I will go and
> check at Costco today. Satoshi
>
>
>
> "Burt" <sfbjgNOSPAM@pacbell.net> wrote in message
> news:LZ0ve.3587$Bx6.1434@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...
>
>>>that are almost impossible to identify since the are not marked.
>>
>>Sure they are marked. The bottles of ink I use have a printed label from
>>MIS including their name, the printer for which the ink is formulated, the
>>color, a "use by" date, and the size of the container.
>>
>>(snip)
>>
>
>
>
That is IMS from Costco not MIS from Inksupply.com The latest bottle
I have say Photo Black for the dye based ink.

Mickey
Anonymous
June 25, 2005 1:01:09 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Your new here aren't you?
Stevelee wrote:
> A good subject turned into worthless fight. People really need to grow up.
How true but you have to admit Measkite is a great fisherman. Every
time he throws out a line someone bites and bites again.
>
> Well, I saw a bit of incorrect understanding about dye based and pigment
> based ink. No intention to fight with anyone. You may consider the
> following
> just my 2 cents worth of opinion.
>
> Dye based black ink is actually darker than pigmented black ink. Just use a
> cotton swap to catch some black ink by squeezing a black ink cartridge and
> use the swap to draw on a piece plain paper. You will see ink from a
> BCI-3eBK
> (pigmented) gets a gray looking but not the black ink from a BCI-6BK.
>
> In order for the pigmented black to look as dark as dye based black the
> printer
> driver is programmed to consume more ink per pixel. That's why the
> cartridge
> (BCI-3eBK) is bigger.
>
> The reason pigmented black ink is used for text printing is because it
> is better
> waterproof than dye based ink. It is also more fade resistant. Pigmented
> ink is
> also much more expensive than dye based ink. It can be twice of the dye
> based ink.
> Many 3rd party BCI-3eBK cartridges, especially cheap ones, are not
> pre-filled
> with pigmented black ink. Most people just can't tell pigmented black
> from dye based
> black.
>
>
Since you tagged onto a post by Bruce which quoted a long post from
Bob Headrick, you need to know he is an HP employee and works for
their Inkjet division. If you thought his comments were incorrect,
you need to stop and give some thought.

Just MO

Mickey
June 25, 2005 6:53:00 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

> I purchased MIS refill set several times from Costco. The plastic squeeze
> bottles with syringe needle on the top did not say any word whether black
> ink is pigment- or dye-based ink.

IMS from costco won't make you happy, they didn't make me happy.
Generic inks, as in the one type fits all are none too good. I can't
say what they'd do on a canon... but on an Epson boy. I haven't heard
of anyone clogging with the IMS inks, but I have heard of leaking as
it's very thin stuff. And faiding... it'll fad about as fast as some
of those ultra cheap imports though my test was with a paint brush and
warsaw index paper. Hardly scientific.

I haven't tried MIS yet from inksupply.com on the canon... but I have
on the epson, and the results were pretty brillent, when I run out of
ink that will be my next refill. Those at least didn't faid in weeks.
Anonymous
June 25, 2005 8:26:23 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

I worked for HP too. But don't assume one knows about ink because he or she works
or worked for HP. I have 3 bottles of Canon compatible black ink in front of me
right now. One is dye based and 2nd is pigmented and the 3rd is somewhere in between.

I tested all 3 by using the ink to draw on 3 pieces of plain paper. The dye ink is
darkest. The one in the middle is almost as dark too. The pigmented black looks gray.
But then it doesn't mean when printed it will be gray. By laying more droplets the gray
will be dense enough to be dark black.

From a more technical point of view, pigment ink does not have a wide gamut like dye
inks. So dye based black ink is naturally darker than pigment black ink. Pigment ink
is much more archival than dye inks and more waterproof. That's the reason when printing
text pigmented ink is desired.


Mickey wrote:
> Your new here aren't you?
> Stevelee wrote:
>
>> A good subject turned into worthless fight. People really need to grow
>> up.
>
> How true but you have to admit Measkite is a great fisherman. Every
> time he throws out a line someone bites and bites again.
>
>>
>> Well, I saw a bit of incorrect understanding about dye based and pigment
>> based ink. No intention to fight with anyone. You may consider the
>> following
>> just my 2 cents worth of opinion.
>>
>> Dye based black ink is actually darker than pigmented black ink. Just
>> use a
>> cotton swap to catch some black ink by squeezing a black ink cartridge
>> and
>> use the swap to draw on a piece plain paper. You will see ink from a
>> BCI-3eBK
>> (pigmented) gets a gray looking but not the black ink from a BCI-6BK.
>>
>> In order for the pigmented black to look as dark as dye based black
>> the printer
>> driver is programmed to consume more ink per pixel. That's why the
>> cartridge
>> (BCI-3eBK) is bigger.
>>
>> The reason pigmented black ink is used for text printing is because it
>> is better
>> waterproof than dye based ink. It is also more fade resistant.
>> Pigmented ink is
>> also much more expensive than dye based ink. It can be twice of the
>> dye based ink.
>> Many 3rd party BCI-3eBK cartridges, especially cheap ones, are not
>> pre-filled
>> with pigmented black ink. Most people just can't tell pigmented black
>> from dye based
>> black.
>>
>>
> Since you tagged onto a post by Bruce which quoted a long post from Bob
> Headrick, you need to know he is an HP employee and works for their
> Inkjet division. If you thought his comments were incorrect, you need
> to stop and give some thought.
>
> Just MO
>
> Mickey
Anonymous
June 25, 2005 8:26:24 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

" Stevelee" <" Stevelee"@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:p Afve.33908$J12.23694@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com...

> From a more technical point of view, pigment ink does not have a wide gamut
> like dye
> inks. So dye based black ink is naturally darker than pigment black ink.

The first statement may be true, but the second does not follow.

> Pigment ink is much more archival than dye inks and more waterproof.

Generally true.

> That's the reason when printing text pigmented ink is desired.

Not necessarily. Pigmented ink is generally less likely to bleed or wick and
is more media independent in these regards than dye based ink. Dyes typically
soak into the paper and may bleed or wick, pigmented inks are more likely to
sit on top of the paper. The result is better edge acuity on a variety of
plain papers. This is more important for providing clear sharp text.

- Bob Headrick, not speaking for my employer HP
June 25, 2005 10:26:37 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

> SO WHERE IS THE REST OF THIS BAD PRODUCT

Please don't yell.

I'll be the first to say I have NO clue where the rest of this product
is. As with many things at costco it's rebranded by some company and
sold in bulk, rather like that kirkland paper we are all so fond off
made by that unnammed swiss paper company.

There is also Stratitec name which was at samsclub for about the same
price mark. The accessories were slightly different, the bottles a
whole other shape, but the plugs, badal, and thumb drill were an
identical match. Sams club is a little different than costco... they
were selling ilford paper that was slightly relabled giving the
impression they were buying the smooth pearl though in reality much
thinner.

But the stuff you're talking about is sold retail for $100/gal or so
(not exact, between $100-$150 IIRC).

> IT IS PROBABLY SOLD UNDER A VARIETY OF NAMES THAT ARE LABELED
> BY THE VENDORS

Yep, and probally made by some company who makes comercial ink. Every
time I see it in the costco isle it's always very consistent in color,
which is more than I can say for Epson OEM... but you can at least look
at epson and pick a single country of orgin and be pretty damned
consistent.

> THAT THE COMPANY WILL NEED MORE THAN COSTCO TO RUN A
> SUCCESSFUL BUSINESS

Ummm, I disagree. I don't know how it is at standford but generally
speaking a successful business is often defined as one which doesn't go
bankrupt after 3 years or so. A business could be two guys and a dog
called spot selling macrame coathangers. Heck I know of some guy who
does chainsaw art work and manages to make house payments. This isn't
my bag I might be misquoting, but any business that continues to
operate for more than 3 years, 5 years, 7 years is successful. And
can you do this just selling to costco? I'd say yes. IMS has been
selling to costco for 3 years now (at least), while I don't like their
product they have a perfectly dandy business model even if they only
sell to Costco... but they also sell direct from what i've seen.
June 26, 2005 3:28:38 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Zake - I use MIS in my Canon i960. No clogs in a little under a year and
very good color match.

"zakezuke" <zakezuke_us@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1119736379.960434.229160@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
>> I purchased MIS refill set several times from Costco. The plastic
>> squeeze
>> bottles with syringe needle on the top did not say any word whether black
>> ink is pigment- or dye-based ink.
>
> IMS from costco won't make you happy, they didn't make me happy.
> Generic inks, as in the one type fits all are none too good. I can't
> say what they'd do on a canon... but on an Epson boy. I haven't heard
> of anyone clogging with the IMS inks, but I have heard of leaking as
> it's very thin stuff. And faiding... it'll fad about as fast as some
> of those ultra cheap imports though my test was with a paint brush and
> warsaw index paper. Hardly scientific.
>
> I haven't tried MIS yet from inksupply.com on the canon... but I have
> on the epson, and the results were pretty brillent, when I run out of
> ink that will be my next refill. Those at least didn't faid in weeks.
>
Anonymous
June 26, 2005 3:53:42 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Mickey wrote:

> Satoshi wrote:
>
>> Burt,
>>
>> I purchased MIS refill set several times from Costco. The plastic
>> squeeze bottles with syringe needle on the top did not say any word
>> whether black ink is pigment- or dye-based ink. They might print it
>> now. I will go and check at Costco today. Satoshi
>>
>>
>>
>> "Burt" <sfbjgNOSPAM@pacbell.net> wrote in message
>> news:LZ0ve.3587$Bx6.1434@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...
>>
>>>> that are almost impossible to identify since the are not marked.
>>>
>>>
>>> Sure they are marked. The bottles of ink I use have a printed label
>>> from MIS including their name, the printer for which the ink is
>>> formulated, the color, a "use by" date, and the size of the container.
>>>
>>> (snip)
>>>
>>
>>
>>
> That is IMS from Costco not MIS from Inksupply.com The latest bottle
> I have say Photo Black for the dye based ink.
>
> Mickey


It may be the same stuff.
June 26, 2005 3:53:43 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

measekite wrote:


>
> It may be the same stuff.

Yeah right. And minkies might come flying out of your rectum at any time.
You're an idiot.
Frank
Anonymous
June 26, 2005 4:11:59 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

In article <LZ0ve.3587$Bx6.1434@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com>,
sfbjgNOSPAM@pacbell.net says...
>
> "measekite" <inkystinky@oem.com> wrote in message
> news:Zw0ve.3566$Bx6.2785@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...
> >
> >
> > Burt wrote:
> >
> >>"measekite" <inkystinky@oem.com> wrote in message
> >>news:kH%ue.3532$Bx6.1910@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...
> >>
> >
> > that are almost impossible to identify since the are not marked.
>

> >>>Ron Cohen wrote:

> Sure they are marked. The bottles of ink I use have a printed label from
> MIS including their name, the printer for which the ink is formulated, the
> color, a "use by" date, and the size of the container.
> >
> (snip)

Strangely enough, my bottles of ink from alotofthings.com are similarly
well identified, including lot & batch numbers.
I wonder why measekite didn't know that? I wonder if there's anything
else he is ignorant of?
Anonymous
June 26, 2005 4:22:58 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Burt wrote:

>Zake - I use MIS UnBranded in my Canon i960. No clogs in a little under a year and
>very good color match.
>
>"zakezuke" <zakezuke_us@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>news:1119736379.960434.229160@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>>>I purchased MIS refill set several times from Costco. The plastic
>>>squeeze
>>>bottles with syringe needle on the top did not say any word whether black
>>>ink is pigment- or dye-based ink.
>>>
>>>
>>IMS from costco won't make you happy, they didn't make me happy.
>>Generic inks, as in the one type fits all are none too good. I can't
>>say what they'd do on a canon... but on an Epson boy. I haven't heard
>>of anyone clogging with the IMS inks, but I have heard of leaking as
>>it's very thin stuff. And faiding... it'll fad about as fast as some
>>of those ultra cheap imports though my test was with a paint brush and
>>warsaw index paper. Hardly scientific.
>>
>>I haven't tried MIS yet from inksupply.com on the canon... but I have
>>on the epson, and the results were pretty brillent, when I run out of
>>ink that will be my next refill. Those at least didn't faid in weeks.
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
June 26, 2005 4:24:57 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

"measekite" <inkystinky@oem.com> wrote in message
news:a8mve.4048$Bx6.139@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...
>
>
> Mickey wrote:
>
>> Satoshi wrote:
>>
>>> Burt,
>>>
>>> I purchased MIS refill set several times from Costco. The plastic
>>> squeeze bottles with syringe needle on the top did not say any word
>>> whether black ink is pigment- or dye-based ink. They might print it
>>> now. I will go and check at Costco today. Satoshi
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> "Burt" <sfbjgNOSPAM@pacbell.net> wrote in message
>>> news:LZ0ve.3587$Bx6.1434@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...
>>>
>>>>> that are almost impossible to identify since the are not marked.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Sure they are marked. The bottles of ink I use have a printed label
>>>> from MIS including their name, the printer for which the ink is
>>>> formulated, the color, a "use by" date, and the size of the container.
>>>>
>>>> (snip)
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> That is IMS from Costco not MIS from Inksupply.com The latest bottle I
>> have say Photo Black for the dye based ink.
>>
>> Mickey
>
>
> It may be the same stuff.

More misinformation from Measekite. It is not the same "stuff". What you
see is the "same stuff" from Measekite trying to dissuade you from buying
anything but OEM ink.

MIS ink is formulated specifically for Canon printer and works great. I have
used MIS Canon inks for nearly a year. IMS is a generic ink which is sold
by Costco and claims to work for several printer manufacturers' units.
Although I have read some posts about IMS being OK I have read many more
negative ones. Measekite's advice is to buy OEM inks for $9 (from Costco)
to $12 (retail) per cartridge. My advice, if you want to save money, is to
either buy prefilled cartridges of non-OEM inks from a vendor that someone
else who used the materials has recommended or save more money by refilling
with MIS, Formulabs, or another ink that someone you trust has recommended
after personal use.
Anonymous
June 26, 2005 4:37:56 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Burt wrote:

>"measekite" <inkystinky@oem.com> wrote in message
>news:a8mve.4048$Bx6.139@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...
>
>
>>Mickey wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>Satoshi wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Burt,
>>>>
>>>>I purchased MIS refill set several times from Costco. The plastic
>>>>squeeze bottles with syringe needle on the top did not say any word
>>>>whether black ink is pigment- or dye-based ink. They might print it
>>>>now. I will go and check at Costco today. Satoshi
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>"Burt" <sfbjgNOSPAM@pacbell.net> wrote in message
>>>>news:LZ0ve.3587$Bx6.1434@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>that are almost impossible to identify since the are not marked.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>Sure they are marked. The bottles of ink I use have a printed label
>>>>>from MIS including their name, the printer for which the ink is
>>>>>formulated, the color, a "use by" date, and the size of the container.
>>>>>
>>>>>(snip)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>That is IMS from Costco not MIS from Inksupply.com The latest bottle I
>>>have say Photo Black for the dye based ink.
>>>
>>>Mickey
>>>
>>>
>>It may be the same stuff.
>>
>>
>
>More misinformation from Measekite. It is not the same "stuff". What you
>see is the "same stuff" from Measekite trying to dissuade you from buying
>anything but OEM ink.
>
>MIS ink is formulated specifically for Canon printer and works great. I have
>used MIS Canon inks for nearly a year. IMS is a generic ink which is sold
>by Costco and claims to work for several printer manufacturers' units.
>Although I have read some posts about IMS being OK I have read many more
>negative ones. Measekite's advice is to buy OEM inks for $9 (from Costco)
>to $12 (retail) per cartridge. My advice, if you want to save money, is to
>either buy prefilled cartridges of non-OEM inks from a vendor that someone
>else who used the materials has recommended
>

Each purchase at a different time could be from another mfg/formulator
and you would never know it because they will not tell you. The next
order could be the one to clog your machine.

>or save more money by refilling
>
>
a pain in the ass

>with MIS, Formulabs, or another ink that someone you trust has recommended
>after personal use.
>
>

In God We Trust

>
>
>
Anonymous
June 26, 2005 4:46:48 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Frank wrote:

> measekite wrote:
>
>
>>
>> It may be the same stuff.
>
>
> Yeah right. And minkies might come flying out of my rectum at any time.
> I am an idiot.
> Frank
June 26, 2005 4:46:49 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

measekite wrote:

>
>
> Frank wrote:
>
>> measekite wrote:
>>
>>
>>>
>>> It may be the same stuff.
>>
>>
>>
>> Yeah right. And minkies might come flying out of my rectum at any time.
>> I am an idiot.
>> Frank

Yeah right. And minkies might come flying out of your rectum at any time.
You're still an idiot.
Frank
Anonymous
June 26, 2005 3:08:24 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

What makes something look black on paper is how well it absorbs light,
and how little are reflected back. Black is the absence of light.

Dye inks typically are a formulation of several colored dyes mixed
together. Often a mixture of blue, yellow and red, but it can be other
combinations. It is actually no easy to produce a true black dye. This
is why you will notice blacks vary quite a bit in their color.

Black pigments exist more commonly, lampblack or soot (carbon based)
being one example. The reason black may not appear as dark as a pigment
is several fold. One, pigments are made of discrete particles of
colorant, meaning there are spaces betwen the particles where the
carrier is. This becomes more obvious as they are diluted. Dyes are
dissolved into the carrier, on a molecular level, making it impossible
for there to be visible spaces between the colorant.

Pigments lay on the surface of the paper. They tend to fall in
irregular positions relative to the shape of the particle. This causes
the light to be reflected in a diffused manner and diffused light looks
much more flat and less "colorful" than light that comes off a very
smooth surface such as the paper surface after it has absorbed dye ink
molecular colorant. The smaller the particle size for pigment colorant,
the less light scattering will occur, but at a certain point, particles
too small simply cannot reflect the color light back well, which puts
pigment inks into a bit of a catch 22. Two large and the light is
spread too diffusely and the particle is less likely to stay on the
paper surface, too small, and the intensity of the color will be lessened.

Black pigment color is indeed used for permanence and waterproof
qualities, but pigment inks do not mix well with dye inks and often
require different paper surfaces, so most dye colorant printers tend to
also have a dye black to go with the pigment black used for text and the
like.

The other problem is to get a dense enough pigment black ink the number
of particles much be high, but this leads to a non-glossy surface. As a
result, Epson for instance, provides two black inks for their pigment
ink machines, one is called photo glossy black and the other matte black.

Canon, to date is still using dye inks for their photo printers, so they
just provide the black pigment cartridge for text and monochrome black
and white results. Mainly uncoated stock is used for that type of
printing, because glossy papers would end up with areas of matte ink
surface if the other pigment inks were to be used.

Art





Stevelee wrote:

> I worked for HP too. But don't assume one knows about ink because he or
> she works
> or worked for HP. I have 3 bottles of Canon compatible black ink in
> front of me
> right now. One is dye based and 2nd is pigmented and the 3rd is
> somewhere in between.
>
> I tested all 3 by using the ink to draw on 3 pieces of plain paper. The
> dye ink is
> darkest. The one in the middle is almost as dark too. The pigmented
> black looks gray.
> But then it doesn't mean when printed it will be gray. By laying more
> droplets the gray
> will be dense enough to be dark black.
>
> From a more technical point of view, pigment ink does not have a wide
> gamut like dye
> inks. So dye based black ink is naturally darker than pigment black ink.
> Pigment ink
> is much more archival than dye inks and more waterproof. That's the
> reason when printing
> text pigmented ink is desired.
>
>
> Mickey wrote:
>
>> Your new here aren't you?
>> Stevelee wrote:
>>
>>> A good subject turned into worthless fight. People really need to
>>> grow up.
>>
>>
>> How true but you have to admit Measkite is a great fisherman. Every
>> time he throws out a line someone bites and bites again.
>>
>>>
>>> Well, I saw a bit of incorrect understanding about dye based and pigment
>>> based ink. No intention to fight with anyone. You may consider the
>>> following
>>> just my 2 cents worth of opinion.
>>>
>>> Dye based black ink is actually darker than pigmented black ink. Just
>>> use a
>>> cotton swap to catch some black ink by squeezing a black ink
>>> cartridge and
>>> use the swap to draw on a piece plain paper. You will see ink from a
>>> BCI-3eBK
>>> (pigmented) gets a gray looking but not the black ink from a BCI-6BK.
>>>
>>> In order for the pigmented black to look as dark as dye based black
>>> the printer
>>> driver is programmed to consume more ink per pixel. That's why the
>>> cartridge
>>> (BCI-3eBK) is bigger.
>>>
>>> The reason pigmented black ink is used for text printing is because
>>> it is better
>>> waterproof than dye based ink. It is also more fade resistant.
>>> Pigmented ink is
>>> also much more expensive than dye based ink. It can be twice of the
>>> dye based ink.
>>> Many 3rd party BCI-3eBK cartridges, especially cheap ones, are not
>>> pre-filled
>>> with pigmented black ink. Most people just can't tell pigmented black
>>> from dye based
>>> black.
>>>
>>>
>> Since you tagged onto a post by Bruce which quoted a long post from
>> Bob Headrick, you need to know he is an HP employee and works for
>> their Inkjet division. If you thought his comments were incorrect,
>> you need to stop and give some thought.
>>
>> Just MO
>>
>> Mickey
June 26, 2005 5:31:39 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

measekite wrote:

So now you have the answer to my wierd behavior...yep...I'm drunk again.

measekite
Anonymous
June 26, 2005 10:09:52 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Frank wrote:

> measekite wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Frank wrote:
>>
>>> measekite wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> It may be the same stuff.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Yeah right. And minkies might come flying out of my rectum at any time.
>>> I am an idiot.
>>> Frank
>>
>
> Yeah right. And minkies might come flying out of your rectum at any
> time for me to eat.
> idiot Frank


Are you hungry again? And you are an idiot.
June 26, 2005 10:09:53 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

measekite wrote:

So now you have the answer to my wierd behavior...I'm drunk again.

measekite
Anonymous
June 26, 2005 10:16:29 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

zakezuke wrote:

>>SO WHERE IS THE REST OF THIS BAD PRODUCT
>>
>>
>
>Please don't yell.
>
>I'll be the first to say I have NO clue where the rest of this product
>is. As with many things at costco it's rebranded by some company and
>sold in bulk, rather like that kirkland paper we are all so fond off
>made by that unnammed swiss paper company.
>
>There is also Stratitec name which was at samsclub for about the same
>price mark. The accessories were slightly different, the bottles a
>whole other shape, but the plugs, badal, and thumb drill were an
>identical match. Sams club is a little different than costco... they
>were selling ilford paper that was slightly relabled giving the
>impression they were buying the smooth pearl though in reality much
>thinner.
>
>But the stuff you're talking about is sold retail for $100/gal or so
>(not exact, between $100-$150 IIRC).
>
>
>
>>IT IS PROBABLY SOLD UNDER A VARIETY OF NAMES THAT ARE LABELED
>>BY THE VENDORS
>>
>>
>
>Yep, and probally made by some company who makes comercial ink. Every
>time I see it in the costco isle it's always very consistent in color,
>which is more than I can say for Epson OEM... but you can at least look
>at epson and pick a single country of orgin and be pretty damned
>consistent.
>
>
>
>>THAT THE COMPANY WILL NEED MORE THAN COSTCO TO RUN A
>>SUCCESSFUL BUSINESS
>>
>>
>
>Ummm, I disagree. I don't know how it is at standford but generally
>speaking a successful business is often defined as one which doesn't go
>bankrupt after 3 years or so. A business could be two guys and a dog
>called spot selling macrame coathangers. Heck I know of some guy who
>does chainsaw art work and manages to make house payments. This isn't
>my bag I might be misquoting, but any business that continues to
>operate for more than 3 years, 5 years, 7 years is successful. And
>can you do this just selling to costco?
>

A successful business needs more than one major client. If Costco dumps
the company they are out of business. In the old days business who sold
all of their output to Sears wound up either taken over or out of
business if Sears dumped them.

>I'd say yes. IMS has been
>selling to costco for 3 years now (at least), while I don't like their
>product they have a perfectly dandy business model even if they only
>sell to Costco... but they also sell direct from what i've seen.
>
>
>
June 26, 2005 10:16:30 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

measekite wrote:

So now you have the answer to my wierd behavior...yep...I'm still drunk.

measekit
Anonymous
June 26, 2005 10:29:06 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Irwin Peckinloomer wrote:

>In article <LZ0ve.3587$Bx6.1434@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com>,
>sfbjgNOSPAM@pacbell.net says...
>
>
>>"measekite" <inkystinky@oem.com> wrote in message
>>news:Zw0ve.3566$Bx6.2785@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...
>>
>>
>>>Burt wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>"measekite" <inkystinky@oem.com> wrote in message
>>>>news:kH%ue.3532$Bx6.1910@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>that are almost impossible to identify since the are not marked.
>>>
>>>
>
>
>
>>>>>Ron Cohen wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>
>
>
>>Sure they are marked. The bottles of ink I use have a printed label from
>>MIS including their name, the printer for which the ink is formulated, the
>>color, a "use by" date, and the size of the container.
>>
>>
>>(snip)
>>
>>
>
>Strangely enough, my bottles of ink from alotofthings.com are similarly
>well identified, including lot & batch numbers.
>I wonder why measekite didn't know that? I wonder if there's anything
>else he is ignorant of?
>
>

Hey Peckerface - They sell noname prefilled carts and they do not tell
you what is inside them. You want to endure the pain in the ass to
refill that is your business. But the majority of peope by far who buy
inkjet printers do not refiill them.
June 26, 2005 10:29:07 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

measekite wrote:

So now you have the answer to my wierd behavior...yep...I'm drunk again
and still posting false information about ink and printers that I know
nothing about.
That's what drunks do. :-)

measekit
June 27, 2005 1:27:42 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

> A successful business needs more than one major client.

A successful business just needs exist without going totally bankrupt.


> If Costco dumps the company they are out of business. In the old days business
> who sold all of their output to Sears wound up either taken over or out of business
> if Sears dumped them.

Ah yes, the olden days of Sears, and the current days of Walmart. On
this point I can actually agree with you. The walmart strategy seems
to be find product, get a contract... then make huge almost impossible
to fill orders, then once all the production goes to walmart and no one
else, threaten to break the contract unless they lower prices. Putting
all your eggs in one basket is never wise. Not the best business model
- agreed.

If I made widgets for Ford automotive, and only sold to Ford, one could
operate and still make a profit. And in the case of IMS (i'm not a fan
of their product), they will sell to the end user as far as I'm aware.
So if costco drops them they could continue operating as a small time
mail order house. It's possible they might have to downsize but at the
end of the day they are selling coloued water. This can be done as a
cottage industry mom & pop operation... there are many of these.

But.. at the end of the day... any business that stays in operation for
more than 3, 5, or 7 years (note I'm not sure of the text book number -
IANAMBA) is a successful one by defination. And it's something to tell
the grandkids too, "when I was your age, I was selling coloued water to
Costco, and I did this for 3 years, and I met your mother". If they
go bankrupt.. which most businesses do... start up another one...
perhaps "macrame coathangers".
June 27, 2005 2:23:22 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

measekite wrote:

So now you have the answer to my weird behavior...yep...I'm drunk again
and still posting false information about ink and printers that I know
nothing about.
That's what we drunks do. :-)

measekit
June 27, 2005 2:32:36 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

measekite wrote:

So now you have the real, truthful answer to my weird, psychotic
behavior...yep...I'm drunk again and still posting false information
about ink and printers that I know absolutely nothing about.
How weird is that huh?
But that's what we drunk morons do. :-)
One other thing that I really like to do. When I stick my brown tongue
up Frankie Crankie's Ass I never you wash it!
Hummm that delicious!!!
Oh I know. that probably makes some of you normal people sick but not me!
Hell I'm already a real sicko!

measekite
Anonymous
June 27, 2005 7:51:26 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Frank wrote:

> measekite wrote:
>
> So now you have the answer to my wierd behavior...I'm drunk again.
>
> Frank
Anonymous
June 27, 2005 7:51:38 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Frank wrote:

> measekite wrote:
>
> So now you have the answer to my wierd behavior...yep...I'm drunk again.
>
> Frank
Anonymous
June 27, 2005 7:51:50 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Frank wrote:

> measekite wrote:
>
> So now you have the answer to my wierd behavior...yep...I'm still drunk.
>
> Frank
Anonymous
June 27, 2005 9:29:13 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Thanks Art. Your post is an enlightening one to me.

Arthur Entlich wrote:

> What makes something look black on paper is how well it absorbs light,
> and how little are reflected back. Black is the absence of light.
>
> Dye inks typically are a formulation of several colored dyes mixed
> together. Often a mixture of blue, yellow and red, but it can be other
> combinations. It is actually no easy to produce a true black dye. This
> is why you will notice blacks vary quite a bit in their color.
>
> Black pigments exist more commonly, lampblack or soot (carbon based)
> being one example. The reason black may not appear as dark as a pigment
> is several fold. One, pigments are made of discrete particles of
> colorant, meaning there are spaces betwen the particles where the
> carrier is. This becomes more obvious as they are diluted. Dyes are
> dissolved into the carrier, on a molecular level, making it impossible
> for there to be visible spaces between the colorant.
>
> Pigments lay on the surface of the paper. They tend to fall in
> irregular positions relative to the shape of the particle. This causes
> the light to be reflected in a diffused manner and diffused light looks
> much more flat and less "colorful" than light that comes off a very
> smooth surface such as the paper surface after it has absorbed dye ink
> molecular colorant. The smaller the particle size for pigment colorant,
> the less light scattering will occur, but at a certain point, particles
> too small simply cannot reflect the color light back well, which puts
> pigment inks into a bit of a catch 22. Two large and the light is
> spread too diffusely and the particle is less likely to stay on the
> paper surface, too small, and the intensity of the color will be lessened.
>
> Black pigment color is indeed used for permanence and waterproof
> qualities, but pigment inks do not mix well with dye inks and often
> require different paper surfaces, so most dye colorant printers tend to
> also have a dye black to go with the pigment black used for text and the
> like.
>
> The other problem is to get a dense enough pigment black ink the number
> of particles much be high, but this leads to a non-glossy surface. As a
> result, Epson for instance, provides two black inks for their pigment
> ink machines, one is called photo glossy black and the other matte black.
>
> Canon, to date is still using dye inks for their photo printers, so they
> just provide the black pigment cartridge for text and monochrome black
> and white results. Mainly uncoated stock is used for that type of
> printing, because glossy papers would end up with areas of matte ink
> surface if the other pigment inks were to be used.
>
> Art
>
>
>
>
>
> Stevelee wrote:
>
>> I worked for HP too. But don't assume one knows about ink because he
>> or she works
>> or worked for HP. I have 3 bottles of Canon compatible black ink in
>> front of me
>> right now. One is dye based and 2nd is pigmented and the 3rd is
>> somewhere in between.
>>
>> I tested all 3 by using the ink to draw on 3 pieces of plain paper.
>> The dye ink is
>> darkest. The one in the middle is almost as dark too. The pigmented
>> black looks gray.
>> But then it doesn't mean when printed it will be gray. By laying more
>> droplets the gray
>> will be dense enough to be dark black.
>>
>> From a more technical point of view, pigment ink does not have a wide
>> gamut like dye
>> inks. So dye based black ink is naturally darker than pigment black
>> ink. Pigment ink
>> is much more archival than dye inks and more waterproof. That's the
>> reason when printing
>> text pigmented ink is desired.
>>
>>
>> Mickey wrote:
>>
>>> Your new here aren't you?
>>> Stevelee wrote:
>>>
>>>> A good subject turned into worthless fight. People really need to
>>>> grow up.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> How true but you have to admit Measkite is a great fisherman. Every
>>> time he throws out a line someone bites and bites again.
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Well, I saw a bit of incorrect understanding about dye based and
>>>> pigment
>>>> based ink. No intention to fight with anyone. You may consider the
>>>> following
>>>> just my 2 cents worth of opinion.
>>>>
>>>> Dye based black ink is actually darker than pigmented black ink.
>>>> Just use a
>>>> cotton swap to catch some black ink by squeezing a black ink
>>>> cartridge and
>>>> use the swap to draw on a piece plain paper. You will see ink from a
>>>> BCI-3eBK
>>>> (pigmented) gets a gray looking but not the black ink from a BCI-6BK.
>>>>
>>>> In order for the pigmented black to look as dark as dye based black
>>>> the printer
>>>> driver is programmed to consume more ink per pixel. That's why the
>>>> cartridge
>>>> (BCI-3eBK) is bigger.
>>>>
>>>> The reason pigmented black ink is used for text printing is because
>>>> it is better
>>>> waterproof than dye based ink. It is also more fade resistant.
>>>> Pigmented ink is
>>>> also much more expensive than dye based ink. It can be twice of the
>>>> dye based ink.
>>>> Many 3rd party BCI-3eBK cartridges, especially cheap ones, are not
>>>> pre-filled
>>>> with pigmented black ink. Most people just can't tell pigmented
>>>> black from dye based
>>>> black.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Since you tagged onto a post by Bruce which quoted a long post from
>>> Bob Headrick, you need to know he is an HP employee and works for
>>> their Inkjet division. If you thought his comments were incorrect,
>>> you need to stop and give some thought.
>>>
>>> Just MO
>>>
>>> Mickey
Anonymous
June 27, 2005 3:50:30 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Frank wrote:

> measekite wrote:
>
> So now you have the answer to my weird behavior...yep...I'm drunk again
> and still posting false information about ink and printers that I know
> nothing about.
> That's what we drunks do. :-)
>
> measekit
>


Sorry all, but Frank is right.
I'm always drunk and still posting false information about ink and
printers that I know absolutely nothing about.
How weird is that huh?
But that's what we drunk morons do best. :-)
One other thing that I really like to do. When I stick my brown tongue
up Frankie Crankie's Ass I never, ever wash it! Can you believe it?
Hummm that's delicious!!!
Oh I know, that probably makes some of you normal people really sick but
not me!
Hell I'm already a complete hopeless sicko!
As you all can readily tell.

measekit
Anonymous
June 27, 2005 3:51:54 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Frank wrote:

> measekite wrote:
>
> So now you have the real, truthful answer to my weird, psychotic
> behavior...yep...I'm drunk again and still posting false information
> about ink and printers that I know absolutely nothing about.
> How weird is that huh?
> But that's what we drunk morons do. :-)
> One other thing that I really like to do. When I stick my brown tongue
> up Frankie Crankie's Ass I never you wash it!
> Hummm that delicious!!!
> Oh I know. that probably makes some of you normal people sick but not me!
> Hell I'm already a real sicko!
>
> measekite
Sorry all, but again Frank is right.
I'm always drunk and still posting false information about ink and
printers that I know absolutely nothing about and probably never will!
How weird is that huh? Well it's normal for me.
But that's what we drunk morons do best. :-)
One other thing that I really like to do. When I stick my brown tongue
up Frankie Crankie's Ass I never, ever wash it! Can you believe it?
Hummm that's delicious!!!
Oh I know, that probably makes some of you normal people really sick but
not me!
Hell I'm already a complete hopeless sicko!
As you all can readily tell.

measekit
Anonymous
June 27, 2005 4:47:46 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Thanks... it would be more enlightening without the typos, grammatical
and spelling errors and the like, which would have been less likely to
occur had I not been writing it at some ungodly hour, after a long day
of other stuff...!

Art

Stevelee wrote:

> Thanks Art. Your post is an enlightening one to me.
>
> Arthur Entlich wrote:
>
>> What makes something look black on paper is how well it absorbs light,
>> and how little are reflected back. Black is the absence of light.
>>
>> Dye inks typically are a formulation of several colored dyes mixed
>
<cut>
Anonymous
June 27, 2005 10:00:10 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Frank wrote:

> measekite wrote:
>
> So now you have the answer to my weird behavior...yep...I'm drunk again
> and still posting false information about ink and printers that I know
> nothing about.
> That's what we drunks do. :-)
>
> Frank
>
!