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Gamers say "There's No point to conroe" - Page 3

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August 13, 2006 6:47:59 AM

Quote:
My 2 Cents!

Conroe is the best CPU performance improvement in the passed 5-6 years. Not only does it perform better than and AMD or older Intel cores, it OverClocks very well. A overclock 6300/6400 will out perform FX-62 in most benchmarks. I'm not a Intel nor and AMD fanboy; I try to use best technology currently offered.

Personally, I have not been so excited about a computer build with new CPU since AMD Athlon 800MHz slot cpu. Praise is due to Intel for releasing this kick-butt cpu!!!


They make me mad though since they coulda done something similar a long time ago, but decided to sit back and watch profits roll in instead, until AMD was getting too good and they had to curtail it. Intel doesn't try and thats why i don't like them among other reasons. AMD tries, and is good to their customers. Last post here...NO MORE FOR ME :wink:

My final thoughts on this whole thing.

1st, sorry, but Intel had Conroe in development for some time. The Core Solo and Duo chips were the first glimpse of the now infamous Core 2 Duo chip. They didn't sit on their hands and let money roll in. That's pure crap.

2nd. AMD is trying to gain market share, so it looks as though they are trying harder than intel. But if you look at it through the eyes of the tech world, intel dropped the ball, and AMD scooped it up and ran with it. AMD used that advantage to pretty much kick intel's ass, for the last few years, and now intel woke up.

3rd. To believe that a company doesn't try to be a good resource for their customers is ridiculous. Also, to claim that any huge company (and yes, no matter what you might think, AMD is a huge company) is 1 person who is reading tech trades, wondering what he could do to make little Billy happier. No. It's a board of directors looking to gain the most money in their investment in the company. Period.

You seem to keep making the fact that intel brought out a good product as an attack to you and your family, when in reality, this product brought about one of the biggest price cuts ever seen in the history of computer processors. Think about it. If intel didn't introduce C2D, would prices be as insane as they are right now, for mid to low range AMD or Intel chips? You are looking through rose colored glasses, and that might be a disadvantage to you, since you won't ever really recognize any newer, or better technology, no matter who makes it, because your sights have narrowed so much.
August 13, 2006 7:43:14 AM

God forbid we should ever attempt to maintain a common manner of decency and have intelligent discussions.

corvetteguy, you have made your point. However, the previous five pages of nonsensical bullshi7 has made it abundantly clear that we do not care. I suggest everyone steer clear of this thread unless they plan on turning it into something worth our time.
August 13, 2006 8:01:55 AM

I agree that high end cpu's arent a nessesity, but when did anyone say "Nah, dont got for the x2 4800, stick with the D 820"??

NEVER!!!!

Stop spreading FUD
Related resources
August 13, 2006 8:20:19 AM

Quote:
I agree that high end cpu's arent a nessesity, but when did anyone say "Nah, dont got for the x2 4800, stick with the D 820"??

NEVER!!!!

Stop spreading FUD

live news flash :!: more emotion on a bs topic :!: outbursts abound in a multitude of regressed fashions :!: news at ten

What are you guys tonight? The fun police? :) 

BM hasnt been posting anything of consequence today (maybe he finally unglued himself from his keyboard and went out side) 9 inch hasent headlined us today (maybe he got banned again) and MMM hasnt been around under any of his puppets. No fun there.
Now that enough Core 2's are out and in the hands of real people, the bench marks have been verified and all the paper launch BS is dying off. No fun there
The only other "fun" thread in the forum todays got locked (who knows why) so this thread has been the fun AND YOU WANT TO SPOIL IT???
Shame on you! :wink:


Peace
August 13, 2006 8:42:36 AM

Quote:
I agree that high end cpu's arent a nessesity, but when did anyone say "Nah, dont got for the x2 4800, stick with the D 820"??

NEVER!!!!

Stop spreading FUD

live news flash :!: more emotion on a bs topic :!: outbursts abound in a multitude of regressed fashions :!: news at ten

What are you guys tonight? The fun police? :) 

BM hasnt been posting anything of consequence today (maybe he finally unglued himself from his keyboard and went out side) 9 inch hasent headlined us today (maybe he got banned again) and MMM hasnt been around under any of his puppets. No fun there.
Now that enough Core 2's are out and in the hands of real people, the bench marks have been verified and all the paper launch BS is dying off. No fun there
The only other "fun" thread in the forum todays got locked (who knows why) so this thread has been the fun AND YOU WANT TO SPOIL IT???
Shame on you! :wink:


Peace

:)  You are right, there is a certain amount of humor and fun that can come of a 'fanboy' like banter. What would we have to push against if there were such 'inflammatory' posts such as this :)  ...

Far too true. Without a little verbal conflict, not only would this place be unpalatably dry, but the level of information exchange would probably drop significantly. How much information would never have been posted if you and the other smarts didn’t have BM, MMM, 9NM and Sharikoupoop to draw the knowledge out?

Besides, Corvetteguy is still in the impressionable years and needs to be guided towards reality lest he turn into another BM. :wink:

Peace
August 13, 2006 9:03:11 AM

Stupid question...

Just what does 'FUD' mean?

Or 'lol' for that matter... Really hard to figure out from usage patterns.

As in 'will you quit spreading FUD lol' to someone who's merely supplying advice in a particular thread to someone who asked a specific question?

I used to think that 'lol' meant 'laughing out loud'.

Now every other sentence (if I can deem the fragments of language that we see on the screen as 'sentences') sems to end in 'lol'.

And every statement that anyone does not approve of, is labelled as 'FUD'.

'My MB fried lol'...

'Quit spreading that FUD about your friend's MB'...

And so on and so on....
August 13, 2006 9:07:15 AM

Quote:
Stupid question...

Just what does 'FUD' mean?

Or 'lol' for that matter... Really hard to figure out from usage patterns.

As in 'will you quit spreading FUD lol' to someone who's merely supplying advice in a particular thread to someone who asked a specific question?

I used to think that 'lol' meant 'laughing out loud'.

Now every other sentence (if I can deem the fragments of language that we see on the screen as 'sentences') sems to end in 'lol'.

And every statement that anyone does not approve of, is labelled as 'FUD'.

'My MB fried lol'...

'Quit spreading that FUD about your friend's MB'...

And so on and so on....


FUD=Fear, Uncertainty, Doubt
LOL=Laughing Out Loud
August 13, 2006 9:09:53 AM

Quote:
Stupid question...

Just what does 'FUD' mean?

Or 'lol' for that matter... Really hard to figure out from usage patterns.

As in 'will you quit spreading FUD lol' to someone who's merely supplying advice in a particular thread to someone who asked a specific question?

I used to think that 'lol' meant 'laughing out loud'.

Now every other sentence (if I can deem the fragments of language that we see on the screen as 'sentences') sems to end in 'lol'.

And every statement that anyone does not approve of, is labelled as 'FUD'.

'My MB fried lol'...

'Quit spreading that FUD about your friend's MB'...

And so on and so on....
lol is still "laughing out loud" or "lots of laughs".

FUD is "fear, uncertainty,doubt".

And you'll see BS aimed squarely at Baron Matrix' posts...but i'm sure you know what that means. :wink:
August 13, 2006 9:10:16 AM

YOU = AMD fan boy ,why cant you think above 3600+ or 4200+ ,grow up there's intel with a better set of processors admit it ,cheaper solutions cannot gurantee performance people seek here and this forum is good for basic knowledge and for enthusiasts .People don't mind spending on processor , ram's and other stuff ,peole who cant afford are well treated with budget solutions and best buy for the money .By the way which other forums are you talking about who have better set of people please tells other so they can admire such forumz . :idea: :twisted:
August 13, 2006 10:05:00 AM

Quote:
I've been looking in some other forums from different places, and unlike here where conroe is all the craze, they couldn't care less. Its not just conroe they don't care about, its almost any high end processor. The common theme is why pay for an x6800 or FX-62 when i can get a x2 3800, 4200, or e6300 and get the same results in the game or close to it for a fifth of the price? They also acknowledge how faster cpu's help people with CAD, and stuff like that, but since most people don't do that there is no point. It seems to me that people on this forum are somewhat "misguided" for recommending such highend cpu's for gaming, or even buying them themselves. I also think that conroe, although not the case here, could benifit AMD buy lowering prices and giving more exposure of AMD to normal people. I know you will also say that the e6300 can overclock past an FX-62, but in response to that, people arn't willing to pay the higher price for that cpu, nor the very expensive motherboard required to overclock like that. They also seem to like the idea of the new EE chips from AMD, and disregard C2D's slighty higher power consumption, and performance. AMD has also respinded to this with the new x2 3600, and i think it will catch on. Anway i think this will benifit AMD because by the time we need chips like the x6800 and FX-62 to run all games on high settings, AMD will have the crown back and will maybe have all price points covered, plus additional exposure to normal consumers. I see 30% marketshare in the not too distant furture 8)


1st what forums are you talking about that don't recommend conroes its not(AT)(h)(oc)(vr)(e) forums . You must mean the AMD forums correct?
2nd I think the title should say "I say "there's no point to conroe"
3rd after reading through some of your responses you even give the e6300 as an alternitive, last time i checked the e6300 was a conroe but i havent checked in a while.
4th taking into acount 1,2,3 the title should read " I say "there is no point to a $800 conroe for games

actually the e6300 and e6400 are allendales :wink:
sorry to nitpick
August 13, 2006 10:37:30 AM

Quote:
Stupid question...

Just what does 'FUD' mean?

Or 'lol' for that matter... Really hard to figure out from usage patterns.

As in 'will you quit spreading FUD lol' to someone who's merely supplying advice in a particular thread to someone who asked a specific question?

I used to think that 'lol' meant 'laughing out loud'.

Now every other sentence (if I can deem the fragments of language that we see on the screen as 'sentences') sems to end in 'lol'.

And every statement that anyone does not approve of, is labelled as 'FUD'.

'My MB fried lol'...

'Quit spreading that FUD about your friend's MB'...

And so on and so on....
lol is still "laughing out loud" or "lots of laughs".

FUD is "fear, uncertainty,doubt".

And you'll see BS aimed squarely at Baron Matrix' posts...but i'm sure you know what that means. :wink:

If you look up FUD in wikipedia it was invented by Gene Amdahl, somewhat famous for Amdahl's law of parallel processing of single threads. He worked for IBM, left and started his own company and complained that he could not succeed becuase IBM used fear, uncertainy, and doubt tactics to keep people from buying products from his company.

You just helped me kill an entire hour of my day. God I love wikipedia. Thanks JJ
August 13, 2006 12:22:03 PM

Quote:
The reason for the thread saying no point for conroe, is because thats what most people here recommend. They say, there's no reason to buy an FX-62, but there is also no poin t to buy an x6800, yet they recommend it constantly, or maybe at least an e6700

Now you're making things up. I have yet to see anyone here recommending the x6800. On the contrary, when someone inquires about it, everybody says it's a waste of money. That comment alone lessens the credibility of your posts, even though I don't totally disagree with what you said initially, but when the very argument you use to justify the creation of the thread is bogus, then the whole thread is bogus.
August 13, 2006 3:38:32 PM

God .. an entire 5 pages worth of BS (no , that wasn't directed at BM).

Can we all just stop this now ??

The TC made a good point about people recommending high-end conroes instead of low-end ones to people who are "CLEARLY" not in the know or "CLEARLY" don't have deep pockets ..... by saying "OH , BUT IT OVERCLOCKS LIKE CRAZY !!!". Or , somewhere along the lines of ..... "BUT AM2 IS A CRAP PLATFORM. WHY DO YOU WANT TO EVEN CONSIDER IT. " ........ I can list many other DIPSTICK REMARKS ... but that is hardly the point.

The point is .... there will ALWAYS be people who can read and write and acquire knowledge just like everyone else ...... but just aren't capable of adapting themselves to strange situations that "swerves" from the "text-book teachings". .....
People who don't know what context means .....
Or People that just don't care .......

like this guy ....

Quote:
.... Best comparison I have personal experience with is doing a call for some old man who had RoadRunner.... said "I use it to check my email" .... I didnt say "hey thats pointless dial up would be 75% cheaper and be just as good" I just corrected his issue and went on with my day :D 


..... to which , the TC's response was

Quote:
Thats my point, that man. You probably know you shoulda told him to get dial-up, but you didn't care too much and let him get it. Thats the way people act on this forum.


Clearly , there are morons who always advise people to get the best, newest and most expensive for pretty much any question/situation (no, not the example above). However, there are plenty of good , sane advice to be had too you know and give the rest of us some credit.

So I'd say ..... quit whinin' and move on kid. !! With kind-hearts like you around who care about other people , the world should be a safer place to live in somewhat. At least take comfort in that, even though you're outnumbered.

Either way , for something like this to last 5 pages ....... gosh the end of the world must be friggin darn close. All logic is turned on its head.
August 13, 2006 3:51:55 PM

Hey now its not that I didnt care :)  you have to realize that people are funny about things like that. Tell some one the car they just purchased is a pile of junk and tell me what reaction you get :)  Sometimes its best just to let people do what they want with there own money lol
August 13, 2006 4:25:53 PM

Its funny because this thread started out as an idea to show some other opinions from people outside this forum that didn't seem to be that impressed with conroe because it wasn't in their price range. Then i was accused of being a fanboy :p 

I have admitted i like AMD better than Intel, but i also said i wouldn't screw myself over to buy AMD. I'm not an idiot, nor am i too young to no any better.

I'll try to make myself more clear about how gamers say no point to conroe. Now like you said that most people barely know who intel and AMD are, and thats my point. Right now they see CONROE, any level, they don't know the dif between e6300 and x6800, as an expensive top of the line product. After concluding they can't afford conroe, they look farther down, which leads to AMD, which is in their price range, and has a good rep for not being crap. Thats why the topic is named that.

PLEASE keep in mind that I did not say there is no point to conroe. One such forum since you want proof was NCIX, a customer forum, not really a tech forum like here. Sure there were a couple die hard(i really mean that) intel fanboys and amd fanboys trying to win arguements, but the majority of gamers decided that the price was right for AMD and went for it. And finally that were my idea about conroe being good for AMD OVERALL came from. Intel's p4's use to be the right price, now its AM2... for some NORMAL gamers.
August 13, 2006 4:35:18 PM

THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS OPINON WHEN MEASURING PERFORMANCE!
THERE ARE ONLY NUMBERS AND THE NUMBERS SAID THAT THE TITLE OF THIS STUPID THREAD, THAT YOU HAVE OPENED IS A LIE!
PLEASE DON'T CRY BECOUSE YOU HAVE NO CAPACITY TO CONSUME ALL THE FLAMINGS YOU HAVE OR HAVE NOT DESERVED!
August 13, 2006 4:45:54 PM

Quote:
I've been looking in some other forums from different places, and unlike here where conroe is all the craze, they couldn't care less. Its not just conroe they don't care about, its almost any high end processor. The common theme is why pay for an x6800 or FX-62 when i can get a x2 3800, 4200, or e6300


Isn't e6300 Conroe?

Quote:

AMD has also respinded to this with the new x2 3600, and i think it will catch on. Anway i think this will benifit AMD because by the time we need chips like the x6800 and FX-62 to run all games on high settings, AMD will have the crown back and will maybe have all price points covered, plus additional exposure to normal consumers. I see 30% marketshare in the not too distant furture 8)


Conroe is very new product. Prices are high now, but will go down soon. There is no reason right now for Intel to sell even low-end Conroe parts cheaper.

AMD has last oportunity window to increase market share, but this time it will be at the price of drastically lowered margins (even x2 3600 die size is bigger than Conroe). By no later than January, I expect Intel to start taking market share back - really bad time for AMD as they will most likely miss Vista launch. Intel will most likely be able to go up to 4Ghz with conroe - quite easy to match any improvements AMD is able to make.

I consider buying sume AMD's put stock options :) 

Mirek
August 13, 2006 4:52:00 PM

E6300 is not Conroe, but Allendale (I think that's the name).

Conroe C2D CPUs are the 4MB cache chips.

Those were just the code names for the Core 2 Duo chips. It's not called Conroe/Allendale CPUs, just Core 2 Duo CPUs. The amount of cache is what seperated the two, is all.

*edit*
Quote:
E6600 has 4MB of L2 and it is Conroe.


whoops...put the wrong CPU in there. LOL I did the edit.

Here's a link:
Core 2 Duo
August 13, 2006 4:53:00 PM

Quote:
E6600 is not Conroe, but Allendale (I think that's the name).

Conroe C2D CPUs are the 4MB cache chips.

Those were just the code names for the Core 2 Duo chips. It's not called Conroe/Allendale CPUs, just Core 2 Duo CPUs. The amount of cache is what seperated the two, is all.

E6600 has 4MB of L2 and it is Conroe.
August 13, 2006 5:00:44 PM

Quote:
THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS OPINON WHEN MEASURING PERFORMANCE!
THERE ARE ONLY NUMBERS AND THE NUMBERS SAID THAT THE TITLE OF THIS STUPID THREAD, THAT YOU HAVE OPENED IS A LIE!
PLEASE DON'T CRY BECOUSE YOU HAVE NO CAPACITY TO CONSUME ALL THE FLAMINGS YOU HAVE OR HAVE NOT DESERVED!


I didn't say anything about performance, i'm talking about price and how most people won't shell out the money they think they will have spend to get a conroe, which they believe is the top of the line, even if its an e6300, its got the name conroe with it so it must expensive.

This is not a stupid thread, people like you overreacting made it a stupid thread.

I'm not crying about anything. I stayed and tried to get my point across, but it was misunderstood, but now i think people understand. If i had no capacity for critizism would i still be talking? Or would i have run away and dumped the thread?

And if you really want to be picky, the thread sin't a lie because the low end "conroes" core 2's are allendales.
August 13, 2006 5:05:43 PM

Quote:

The only reason AMD and retailers droped the A64 & X2 prices was in response to Conroe. . We're in a price war right now, so waiting, even a week may save cash, but sooner or later, you're going to have to buy.


Actually, does not look as typical price war to me - at the moment, Intel has its high-margin parts (Core2), while AMD reduced prices in order to be able to compete with Intel's low-end parts. Sure, Intel has some obsolete stock to sell, but I guess that netburst price reduction would have to come with Core2 anyway.

Mirek
August 13, 2006 5:14:55 PM

No, people come to believe it is expensive, because they see the prices of C2Ds, which are in high demand, being marked up alot, and they believe that price will stay like that forever and ever.

The supply of C2D, along with motherboards and even some memory, makes the entire system seem expensive, when it's not.

If someone was doing a complete system upgrade, I would recommend the C2D to them, since they showed that they are better across the board in almost every application/gaming scenario. And, with quad core being tested on existing boards, it's hard to say that the newest chipset is not upgradable.

To suggest a lower priced item is fine, but to suggest a lower performing item is wrong.
August 13, 2006 5:16:43 PM

I'm a gamer with an E6600 so I think that inavalidates the title of the thread.

I want to be able to play games 1-2 years down the line and a conroe seems the best bet for future proofing my system.

As for the Conroe =expensive statement. Which company was it who just halved thier prices almost across the board to compete ?
August 13, 2006 5:21:51 PM

Ya thats what i mean. I don't mean sacrifice all your performance for a low price. Just get the processor that will do the job.

If someone came in here asking for specs on am internet machine, and said they had no budget, would you tell them to get an x6800? or even an e6300?. I wouldn't, i'd tell em to save their money and buy a x2 3800 EE. I wouldn't tell em to get a PD or P$ since they are actually crap. But just because the 3800 is low priced, that doesn't mean its crap.

I guess my philosiphy is just because you can get better doesn't mean you should.
August 13, 2006 5:25:08 PM

Quote:
Ya thats what i mean. I don't mean sacrifice all your performance for a low price. Just get the processor that will do the job.

If someone came in here asking for specs on am internet machine, and said they had no budget, would you tell them to get an x6800? or even an e6300?. I wouldn't, i'd tell em to save their money and buy a x2 3800 EE. I wouldn't tell em to get a PD or P$ since they are actually crap. But just because the 3800 is low priced, that doesn't mean its crap.

I guess my philosiphy is just because you can get better doesn't mean you should.


Why? With no budget, they probably are just trying to get a feel of what the forum thinks is the best setup without starting an AMD vs. Intel thread.

I would recommend the best CPU available, along with a lower priced/performance option. I wouldn't simply say, get this XXX because you don't need the power. How would I know?

I would give my opinion of what would be, probably, my dream setup. CPU, video, RAM, mobo, etc., then widdle it down from there. B

Budget systems are one thing, but when someone asks for a build with no budget, there's no way I won't recommend the best out there.

If they just want an internet machine, I'd tell them go get a pre-built system from Best Buy or CompUSA or something like that.
August 13, 2006 5:36:51 PM

ok how bout this... i tell them the best possible system, then, tell em they don't need it and tell them what they do need, then let them make the decision for themselves. Like i said before after i tell them they don't need it, i don't care if they waste their money and buy it anyway.
August 13, 2006 6:09:44 PM

... MOST ppl don't replace their computers every year. Most ppl wait like 3 years until they upgrade to a new rig.

Because of that, they want to get something that lasts. Sure Conroe is overkill right now, but then what new technology becomes the standard right away? That would be retarded.

I remember 3 years ago, I bought my 3.06 GHz P4 with HT and it was extreme overkill. Now it gets owned regularly. Sure it can browse the internet and do word processing, but even a p3 can still do that.

Not everyone is looking for the best value right now. Not all of us are constantly upgrading their parts to keep up with the times. You have to see further than that. For some people, paying $2000 now is worth it if they don't have to think about upgrading for 2-3 years.
August 13, 2006 6:50:48 PM

Quote:
... MOST ppl don't replace their computers every year. Most ppl wait like 3 years until they upgrade to a new rig.

Because of that, they want to get something that lasts. Sure Conroe is overkill right now, but then what new technology becomes the standard right away? That would be retarded.

I remember 3 years ago, I bought my 3.06 GHz P4 with HT and it was extreme overkill. Now it gets owned regularly. Sure it can browse the internet and do word processing, but even a p3 can still do that.

Not everyone is looking for the best value right now. Not all of us are constantly upgrading their parts to keep up with the times. You have to see further than that. For some people, paying $2000 now is worth it if they don't have to think about upgrading for 2-3 years.


Tell me about it... i've got a 9 year old p2 8O

But now i'm buying a whole new rig for lots of monye, BUT, i took into consideration that as you go up in performance, the price inflates faster. So, i'm getting a 4600 EE and then later like maybe a year and a half or so, get a new video card and cpu, that will hopefully just drop into my mobo.


Anyway i'm not going to argue any more because what people should do and what they actually do are 2 different things. I guess all we can do is give our advice and hope they follow it :( 
August 13, 2006 6:56:28 PM

Quote:

The only reason AMD and retailers droped the A64 & X2 prices was in response to Conroe. . We're in a price war right now, so waiting, even a week may save cash, but sooner or later, you're going to have to buy.


Actually, does not look as typical price war to me - at the moment, Intel has its high-margin parts (Core2), while AMD reduced prices in order to be able to compete with Intel's low-end parts. Sure, Intel has some obsolete stock to sell, but I guess that netburst price reduction would have to come with Core2 anyway.

Mirek

AMD has lowered the prices of its CPUs accross the board, but neither by a fixed or linear margin. The prices on their high end FX62 have dropped about $300 (depending which e tailer you look at) while prices on the lower end (A64) in some cases, havent changed. Is $799 a competative price for a high end CPU? If you look purely at names i.e FX62 @ $799 vs E6800EE @ $1190 ya the FX 62 is a great deal. But when you consider equivelent performance, i.e the FX 62 @ $799 vs the E6600 @ $350, well, not so much.

The interesting thing is, with the release of core 2, Intel instantly took AMDs high end proccessors and made them mid range and the AMD mid range CPUs are now low end. The low end CPUs? Computer show bargain bin fodder. So, if you want to argue that its not a price war and that AMD mearly adjusted the prices of its CPU to proerly reflect the drop in performance class, well, I suppose thats an arguable point.


Peace
August 13, 2006 7:08:31 PM

I have something against any thread title which takes the form "[Insert large group of people here] say/think/believe/are of the opinion that [insert pointless, attention grabbing rubbish here]."

One guy is not "Gamers". Gamers expouse their opinions through typing and gaming, not actually using their mouths. And if there's "No point" to anything, it's this thread.

A couple of ideas for a better title would be :
CorvetteGuy believes there's no point to Conroe due to some serious X2 wub.
Gamers with any sort of budget should say no to premium CPUs (example #1, FX62) and spend the saved cash on GPU(s).

Synergy6
August 13, 2006 7:08:35 PM

Quote:
I agree that high end cpu's arent a nessesity, but when did anyone say "Nah, dont got for the x2 4800, stick with the D 820"??

NEVER!!!!

Stop spreading FUD

live news flash :!: more emotion on a bs topic :!: outbursts abound in a multitude of regressed fashions :!: news at ten

What are you guys tonight? The fun police? :) 

BM hasnt been posting anything of consequence today (maybe he finally unglued himself from his keyboard and went out side) 9 inch hasent headlined us today (maybe he got banned again) and MMM hasnt been around under any of his puppets. No fun there.
Now that enough Core 2's are out and in the hands of real people, the bench marks have been verified and all the paper launch BS is dying off. No fun there
The only other "fun" thread in the forum todays got locked (who knows why) so this thread has been the fun AND YOU WANT TO SPOIL IT???
Shame on you! :wink:


Peace
Oh the shame of bieng part of the fun police :oops: 
tonight on news channel six ;more pointless banter on atopic called,"theres no point to conroe"
well have an analyst with us tonight from a$$hole technologies.
vern ;does this post carry any weight for the amd camp?
a$$;"nahhh dis guys a freekin mook,in joisey dat means hes a friggen flamin fanboy.
Vern ;wow that a lot of F's
a$$;hey,i got more where dat came from
Vern; so you think gamers prefer the lower performing amd chip?
a$$::o nly da friggen blind and friggen lost,our engineer joey baggodonuts ,hes gonna be commin in to straighten dis mess out,wit me.
hey there he is
"hey joey cmon ovah heah.

:lol:  :lol:  :lol:  Nice

Da, Comrade ze Fun Polizei haff spoken :wink:

Peace
August 13, 2006 7:20:43 PM

Quote:

The interesting thing is, with the release of core 2, Intel instantly took AMDs high end proccessors and made them mid range and the AMD mid range CPUs are now low end. The low end CPUs? Computer show bargain bin fodder. So, if you want to argue that its not a price war and that AMD mearly adjusted the prices of its CPU to proerly reflect the drop in performance class, well, I suppose thats an arguable point.


Peace


Yeah, C2D release basically re-adjusted the market and the scaling, things are in huge flux right now and will take several more months before it all settles down. No doubt people are looking at the new X2 prices and using this as a good buying opportunity.

AMD will sell a lot of processors as a result, in fact we are beginning to see the pains of the capacity constraints on dual core at 90 nm. It will be interesting to see what happens to AMD's ASPs as a result.

Jack

THAT's what i've been saying the whole time and you guys called me an idiot. I said the lower prices expose AMD to more normal people than ever before. :?
August 13, 2006 7:28:41 PM

Quote:
I've been looking in some other forums from different places, and unlike here where conroe is all the craze, they couldn't care less. Its not just conroe they don't care about, its almost any high end processor. The common theme is why pay for an x6800 or FX-62 when i can get a x2 3800, 4200, or e6300 and get the same results in the game or close to it for a fifth of the price? They also acknowledge how faster cpu's help people with CAD, and stuff like that, but since most people don't do that there is no point. It seems to me that people on this forum are somewhat "misguided" for recommending such highend cpu's for gaming, or even buying them themselves. I also think that conroe, although not the case here, could benifit AMD buy lowering prices and giving more exposure of AMD to normal people. I know you will also say that the e6300 can overclock past an FX-62, but in response to that, people arn't willing to pay the higher price for that cpu, nor the very expensive motherboard required to overclock like that. They also seem to like the idea of the new EE chips from AMD, and disregard C2D's slighty higher power consumption, and performance. AMD has also respinded to this with the new x2 3600, and i think it will catch on. Anway i think this will benifit AMD because by the time we need chips like the x6800 and FX-62 to run all games on high settings, AMD will have the crown back and will maybe have all price points covered, plus additional exposure to normal consumers. I see 30% marketshare in the not too distant furture 8)


There is a lot of truth to this as spending money on dual GPU setup gains more gamming preformance than placing about the same money on a high cost CPU and only 1 GPU. The mid range CPU's, E6600 or X2 5000+, would be the best CPU to get with a dual GPU setup. I wouldn't buy the E6300, the X2 3800+, or the X2 4200+ unless to OC but thats just me. For a good life out of a CPU it needs to be mid range atleast. You are kind of correct on Intels mobo but only at the low end as the E6600 and higher performance CPU's make up for the higher cost.
August 13, 2006 7:38:04 PM

[/quote]THAT's what i've been saying the whole time and you guys called me an idiot. I said the lower prices expose AMD to more normal people than ever before.
Quote:


I agree 100%, only the abnormal people like the ones in this forum were the ones exposed to AMD before, now we will have normal folks trying AMD for the first time. It maybe a revolution.

Sorry for the sarcasim but this was about the most stupid statement which I have seen in this forum. There is a reason why someone will be called an idiot.
August 13, 2006 7:45:18 PM

Quote:

The interesting thing is, with the release of core 2, Intel instantly took AMDs high end proccessors and made them mid range and the AMD mid range CPUs are now low end. The low end CPUs? Computer show bargain bin fodder. So, if you want to argue that its not a price war and that AMD mearly adjusted the prices of its CPU to proerly reflect the drop in performance class, well, I suppose thats an arguable point.


Peace


Yeah, C2D release basically re-adjusted the market and the scaling, things are in huge flux right now and will take several more months before it all settles down. No doubt people are looking at the new X2 prices and using this as a good buying opportunity.

AMD will sell a lot of processors as a result, in fact we are beginning to see the pains of the capacity constraints on dual core at 90 nm. It will be interesting to see what happens to AMD's ASPs as a result.

Jack

THAT's what i've been saying the whole time and you guys called me an idiot. I said the lower prices expose AMD to more normal people than ever before. :?


No, what you said was:

Quote:
I've been looking in some other forums from different places, and unlike here where conroe is all the craze, they couldn't care less. Its not just conroe they don't care about, its almost any high end processor. The common theme is why pay for an x6800 or FX-62 when i can get a x2 3800, 4200, or e6300 and get the same results in the game or close to it for a fifth of the price? They also acknowledge how faster cpu's help people with CAD, and stuff like that, but since most people don't do that there is no point. It seems to me that people on this forum are somewhat "misguided" for recommending such highend cpu's for gaming, or even buying them themselves. I also think that conroe, although not the case here, could benifit AMD buy lowering prices and giving more exposure of AMD to normal people. I know you will also say that the e6300 can overclock past an FX-62, but in response to that, people arn't willing to pay the higher price for that cpu, nor the very expensive motherboard required to overclock like that. They also seem to like the idea of the new EE chips from AMD, and disregard C2D's slighty higher power consumption, and performance. AMD has also respinded to this with the new x2 3600, and i think it will catch on. Anway i think this will benifit AMD because by the time we need chips like the x6800 and FX-62 to run all games on high settings, AMD will have the crown back and will maybe have all price points covered, plus additional exposure to normal consumers. I see 30% marketshare in the not too distant furture



Note, you said "expose AMD to more people than ever".
Corevetteguy, Ive gotta tell ya, thats an extremely biased comment. Very MMMish -- "....and the truth shall be known and AMD shall rule the world" kinda stuff.

Again, I havent seen a lot of people saying buy the FX or the EE. Ive seen people here saying buy E6600, E6400, X24600 or X24600. If someone wants the fastest CPU out there, its the EE, if someone wants the best bargain, for the moment, its the E6600, (and only by a narrow margin)
AMD's are still fine processors, the only people calling them junk are, well lets say they're uninformed. Dont waste time worrying about those folks. Worry about yourself and why your getting flamed.

Your getting flamed because:
1) The threads title was infamatory.
2) What gamers, where? Links??? evidence???
3) You said Conroe---you did not say "AMD & Intel high end proccessors"
4) You were being presumptive. The whole "everyone is saying..." thing.
5) The topic falls into the AMD fanboy catagory of "well uh, Conroes too fast, people dont need than much speed so theres no point to buying it"

Sorry man, just the way it comes off.

If you dont want to get flamed, you need to remember, its not about how you think something appears, its about other peoples perspectives. When you write something, think about how other people will view it and adjust the wording so as not to inflame them. Unless you're trying to inflame them. :wink:


Peace
August 13, 2006 7:48:59 PM

Quote:

The interesting thing is, with the release of core 2, Intel instantly took AMDs high end proccessors and made them mid range and the AMD mid range CPUs are now low end. The low end CPUs? Computer show bargain bin fodder. So, if you want to argue that its not a price war and that AMD mearly adjusted the prices of its CPU to proerly reflect the drop in performance class, well, I suppose thats an arguable point.


Peace


Yeah, C2D release basically re-adjusted the market and the scaling, things are in huge flux right now and will take several more months before it all settles down. No doubt people are looking at the new X2 prices and using this as a good buying opportunity.

AMD will sell a lot of processors as a result, in fact we are beginning to see the pains of the capacity constraints on dual core at 90 nm. It will be interesting to see what happens to AMD's ASPs as a result.

Jack

THAT's what i've been saying the whole time and you guys called me an idiot. I said the lower prices expose AMD to more normal people than ever before. :?

I have never called anybody an idiot, perhaps implied but never 'you are an idiot' I don't think you are an idot, I don't think BaronMatrix is an idot --- just misguided and misinformed. Albiet, others throw the term around quite frequently. The closest I have come to calling someone an idiot was BM's statement in one of his posts "Boy am I an idiot" to which I replied "Every village has it's idiot, we have you". I actually feel a little ashamed of that, but what is done is done. @ Baron, my sincerest apology :)  ...

AMD, over the past 2 or 3 years, has established a reputibility that they have never had in the past. Prior to K8/Opteron, AMD was viewed in the industry and a lower quality alternative with spotty delivery records. This killed them. Hector Ruiz, to his infinite credit, transformed that company and will likely continue to do so.

He key accomplishment as head of AMD was not a technical one, that honor goes to Fred Weber, no it was changing the perception that AMD was only out to hurt Intel to one that was 'customer centric', unlike Intel AMD listens to their customers, whereas Intel typically tries to push the industry --- AMD responds to the industry. This is powerful.

Now, in terms of the price war etc. etc. Exposure to people has already been there, AMD took 80% of the retail sales in Q4 or 2005, every Joe Blow Comsumer store I go into AMD systems are front and center, Intel systems are in the back corner. This is not an exposure thing, this is cheap CPUs and people taking advantage to get a faster system for 1/2 the costs. The pricing scheme fell right into line in terms of relative performance -- AMD had no choice. The problem is the other side of the equation, AMD lacks capacity so we see a shortage. AMD also lacks the manufacturing technology, hence they lack the costs.

AMD will sell a lot of processors this quarter and likely take a loss as a result of depressed ASPs. It depends on how much moementum Opteron carries them through because woodcrest will not show any impact on Opteron for another quarter or two. This is where I believe your argument goes astray --- while it will allow AMD to sell more processors, lower ASP cannot be good for AMD, it is the second half of the equation that you are neglecting.

Jack

Yes i said AMD will have troubles in the short term, but the reason i said conroe could be good for the is because of all the processors they sell(even at a loss) will give them exposure(which they already had to an extent) and experience(which i don't think people have had as much of).


BTW... see, i was just called an idiot again by someone oversimplifying my statements :p 
August 13, 2006 7:52:59 PM

I already explained all that stuff. I'm not explaining any more because i'm tired of this thread. I wasn't trying to be inflamatory, just relaying what i read on many forum topics, elsewhere than THG.

EDIT: Man, i just read that and it even sounded too angry... i gotta work on that :wink:
August 13, 2006 7:59:52 PM

Quote:
Well, I can appreciate the pragmatic assessment, I agree --- short term will be a struggle, they have their work cut out for them --- but they are doing the right things to position themselves for success 2-3 years from now.

For the moment, the pressure is on AMD to deliver --- this is what needs to happen in my opinion: 65 nm must come on line no later than this year (it has been pushed out), K8L must be delivered as this has been pushed out (I found this article interesting: http://news.zdnet.com/2100-9584_22-5091845.html), and 300 mm must ramp up faster --- the data tends to suggest they are only at 10-15% capacity, this is not profit worthy utilization.

I firmly believe they will come out strong and 2-3 years from now this is could become between a 30/70 and 40/60 market. AMD will ultimately get 30% market unit volume but they will hover in the 15-20% revenue regime until they get a C2D killer out the door.

Jack


I AGREE :) 
August 13, 2006 8:31:31 PM

Quote:
"Boy am I an idiot" to which I replied "Every village has it's idiot, we have you". I actually feel a little ashamed of that, but what is done is done. @ Baron, my sincerest apology :)  ...


Awww, why’d ya have to go and spoil it? I liked someone other than me being the village idiot for awhile. :wink:

Quote:
.......it was changing the perception that AMD was only out to hurt Intel to one that was 'customer centric', unlike Intel AMD listens to their customers, whereas Intel typically tries to push the industry --- AMD responds to the industry. This is powerful.


I hope people read and understand this. It is a brilliant observation and truthful. In addition, and not intentionally, it drives to the heart of AMD fanboyism. Loyalty to a company which values its customers. There is nothing whatsoever wrong with loyalty. Until the point it where metamorphosis’s to extremism

IMO, one of the "unspoken" underlying questions that fuels these debates is, has Intel changed its spots? If C2D was merely a normal pre-planned technological progression for Intel, then no. If C2D was developed solely in response to AMD, then no again. If C2D was response, plus recognition of why AMD has been building momentum, then yes, Intel may be changing its spots to become a responsive rather than active-reactive company. Fear of this may be what’s scaring some of the AMD fanboys, and rightly so. A company the size of Intel, giving the customer what they want rather then telling the customer what they can have will make Intel a dangerous competitor. Time will tell.



Peace
August 13, 2006 8:39:59 PM

I agree with that although i think it may be a little late because intel already has a set reputation for not being responsive, and AMD does, but we will see.

I was just thinking, this thread reminds me of my "RAID ins't worth it" thread where i challenged the worthyness of RAID 1 for the price. You guys think this is bad you shoulda seen the backlash on that one, with mpjesse leading the way :wink:
August 13, 2006 8:49:06 PM

Quote:
I've been looking in some other forums from different places, and unlike here where conroe is all the craze, they couldn't care less. Its not just conroe they don't care about, its almost any high end processor. The common theme is why pay for an x6800 or FX-62 when i can get a x2 3800, 4200, or e6300 and get the same results in the game or close to it for a fifth of the price? They also acknowledge how faster cpu's help people with CAD, and stuff like that, but since most people don't do that there is no point. It seems to me that people on this forum are somewhat "misguided" for recommending such highend cpu's for gaming, or even buying them themselves. I also think that conroe, although not the case here, could benifit AMD buy lowering prices and giving more exposure of AMD to normal people. I know you will also say that the e6300 can overclock past an FX-62, but in response to that, people arn't willing to pay the higher price for that cpu, nor the very expensive motherboard required to overclock like that. They also seem to like the idea of the new EE chips from AMD, and disregard C2D's slighty higher power consumption, and performance. AMD has also respinded to this with the new x2 3600, and i think it will catch on. Anway i think this will benifit AMD because by the time we need chips like the x6800 and FX-62 to run all games on high settings, AMD will have the crown back and will maybe have all price points covered, plus additional exposure to normal consumers. I see 30% marketshare in the not too distant furture 8)


2 Points here:

1. Learn how to paragraph.

and:

2. Shut the hell up fanboy.

EDIT!

Sorry for the accusation of so called "fanboyism", after reading the rest of the thread i have realised you are a fair and open-minded individual.

Sorry again.

Sheep.
August 13, 2006 8:50:03 PM

Quote:
I agree with that although i think it may be a little late because intel already has a set reputation for not being responsive, and AMD does, but we will see


Very true. Intel has a solidly established reputation for not caring. Its going to take a lot of time and effort to change that reputation, if thats what they are trying to do. In their favor, they have sufficeint cash and momentum to take the time they need to change their reputation.

Peace
August 13, 2006 8:54:57 PM

Quote:
I've been looking in some other forums from different places, and unlike here where conroe is all the craze, they couldn't care less. Its not just conroe they don't care about, its almost any high end processor. The common theme is why pay for an x6800 or FX-62 when i can get a x2 3800, 4200, or e6300 and get the same results in the game or close to it for a fifth of the price? They also acknowledge how faster cpu's help people with CAD, and stuff like that, but since most people don't do that there is no point. It seems to me that people on this forum are somewhat "misguided" for recommending such highend cpu's for gaming, or even buying them themselves. I also think that conroe, although not the case here, could benifit AMD buy lowering prices and giving more exposure of AMD to normal people. I know you will also say that the e6300 can overclock past an FX-62, but in response to that, people arn't willing to pay the higher price for that cpu, nor the very expensive motherboard required to overclock like that. They also seem to like the idea of the new EE chips from AMD, and disregard C2D's slighty higher power consumption, and performance. AMD has also respinded to this with the new x2 3600, and i think it will catch on. Anway i think this will benifit AMD because by the time we need chips like the x6800 and FX-62 to run all games on high settings, AMD will have the crown back and will maybe have all price points covered, plus additional exposure to normal consumers. I see 30% marketshare in the not too distant furture 8)


2 Points here:

1. Learn how to paragraph.

and:

2. Shut the hell up fanboy.

How bout' you read further than the first post DUMBASS
August 13, 2006 8:58:23 PM

Quote:
I agree with that although i think it may be a little late because intel already has a set reputation for not being responsive, and AMD does, but we will see


Very true. Intel has a solidly established reputation for not caring. Its going to take a lot of time and effort to change that reputation, if thats what they are trying to do. In their favor, they have sufficeint cash and momentum to take the time they need to change their reputation.

Peace

This might sound dumb but even if they change their attitude i probably still won't like them because they are only doing it because AMD is doing and it works. :wink:

I think they might being doing it though because if they REALLY wanted to, they could price AMD out of existance right now.
August 13, 2006 9:07:47 PM

Quote:

eh?
I think that investors would argue against it as it would lead to losses.
going bankrupt to kill the competition is not smart.not that they would go bankrupt but,its not smart.
and any agressive move like that may be an FTC violation,i dont know.It could be deemed monopolistic behavior.


Very true, the below is utter rubbish. Unless they "wanted to" shoot themselves in the foot, the head, and a few worse places too.

Quote:
I think they might being doing it though because if they REALLY wanted to, they could price AMD out of existance right now.


Synergy6
August 13, 2006 9:08:31 PM

Quote:
This might sound dumb but even if they change their attitude i probably still won't like them because they are only doing it because AMD is doing and it works. :wink:


Be careful there. That kind of attitude is a bit rigid, and a bit out of realm. Remember, regardless of their attitude, they are a commercial enterprise, not a social entity. If they provide an improved consumer product at a better value, and the customer support to back it up, then the only person your hurting by not buying that product is you. :?

Quote:
I think they might being doing it though because if they REALLY wanted to, they could price AMD out of existance right now.


Could they? Maybe, but Im not so sure. If Intel could pricve AMD out of existance, why wouldnt they? If they can, but they havent isnt that in direct opposition to the AMD fanboy attitude that Intel is evil, doesnt like competition and wants to rule the world.? :?

Peace
August 13, 2006 9:22:14 PM

Thats why i said IF they REALLY WANTED to. I didn't say they will and i was saying thats not whats happening, and perhaps maybe they are changing their attitudes.

@turpit... i would never screw myself to support a company, first because it doesn't matter what i do as an individual, and second cuz i'm not an idiot :wink:

@verndewd.... NO PLEASE DON"T LOCK MY THREAD lol :wink:

ps. j/k please end the madness :p 
a b à CPUs
August 13, 2006 9:47:00 PM

Quote:
What i'm saying is that most people won't spend an extra 800$ so they can squeal when they get 5 extra fps in a game.


Actually you're the one who's wrong here, Conroes are relatively cheap and getting cheaper as availability increases. There's no $800 extra involved, not even $100 extra. And these guys WILL pay $200 more to get faster RAM for a 0.5% performance increase, more proof that your views on practicality and pricing are completely off-base.
August 13, 2006 9:56:55 PM

Quote:
What i'm saying is that most people won't spend an extra 800$ so they can squeal when they get 5 extra fps in a game.


Actually you're the one who's wrong here, Conroes are relatively cheap and getting cheaper as availability increases. There's no $800 extra involved, not even $100 extra. And these guys WILL pay $200 more to get faster RAM for a 0.5% performance increase, more proof that your views on practicality and pricing are completely off-base.

Way to go looking at only half of the post. I was talking about the x6800 which is a 1000 US dollars. And i was also talking about MOST NORMAl people that wouldn't see the point of spending that much on any component to get a 0.5% increase.

Anyway this thread is over so go away tard. :evil:  :roll:
August 13, 2006 9:59:57 PM

Quote:
What i'm saying is that most people won't spend an extra 800$ so they can squeal when they get 5 extra fps in a game.


Actually you're the one who's wrong here, Conroes are relatively cheap and getting cheaper as availability increases. There's no $800 extra involved, not even $100 extra. And these guys WILL pay $200 more to get faster RAM for a 0.5% performance increase, more proof that your views on practicality and pricing are completely off-base.

Way to go looking at only half of the post. I was talking about the x6800 which is a 1000 US dollars. And i was also talking about MOST NORMAl people that wouldn't see the point of spending that much on any component to get a 0.5% increase.

Anyway this thread is over so go away tard. :evil:  :roll:

The original topic starter here is right. End of. i cba to argue or prove my point. but that is also wot i think
!