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[POLL] To early for alt.games.oblivion?

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Anonymous
January 21, 2005 3:10:13 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.morrowind (More info?)

I got my finger on the trigger...soon as public opinion decides it's time,
I'll pull.

--
John Henry
"The Canadian people seem very friendly. I was happy to see them waving
with all five fingers." - George Bush tips his hand, 01Dec2004
www.lowgenius.com
Anonymous
January 21, 2005 3:10:14 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.morrowind (More info?)

John Henry wrote:

> I got my finger on the trigger...soon as public opinion decides it's time,
> I'll pull.
>

I do think it's too soon, since we haven't much to talk about until the
game is out. But it's great that you are ready to launch the NG.

I'm ready to play the game. :) 
Anonymous
January 21, 2005 6:34:48 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.morrowind (More info?)

"John Henry" <jhd@inNOSPAMsurgent.orgy> wrote in message
news:Xns95E4C30C59E20johnhenrylowgeniusco@216.168.3.44
> I got my finger on the trigger...soon as public opinion decides it's
> time, I'll pull.

Should we see what Oblivion is all about first? nah? When's it to be
released?

Too bad someone didn't create alt.games.half-life2 right. Most ISP's
won't carry it. So, we're all using alt.games.half-life. Would it
hurt if a similar thing happened here?
McG.
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Anonymous
January 21, 2005 11:50:59 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.morrowind (More info?)

John Henry wrote:

> I got my finger on the trigger...soon as public opinion decides it's time,
> I'll pull.
>

Personally, I would prefer that the messages were in the elder-scrolls
newsgroup.
Anonymous
January 21, 2005 2:50:07 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.morrowind (More info?)

Me too. I think it is bad when new games in a series keep making their
own group so that you get a series of groups with a short life instead
of an ongoing group that supports all the games (but predominantly the
most recent).
Anonymous
January 21, 2005 7:08:57 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.morrowind (More info?)

"McGrandpa" <McGrandpaNOT@NOThotmail.com> wrote in news:sL_Hd.51179
$Z%.25986@fe1.texas.rr.com:

> Too bad someone didn't create alt.games.half-life2 right. Most ISP's
> won't carry it. So, we're all using alt.games.half-life. Would it
> hurt if a similar thing happened here?

Which similar thing?

I checked isc.org for alt.games.half-life2, and it has a control message
archived; this is the ultimate litmus test for the validity of a
newsgroup. If the message was malformed it *likely* wouldn't be archived,
but it could be; I don't know how much of those processes is automated
anymore (i.e. ISC just takes anything with a cmsg newgroup header). What
is said to be the problem with that group? Let me know and I'll followup
with the admins here; they're as clueful as it gets, so if nothing else I
might be able to send a booster message or something that corrects any
improper formatting issues.

Note to 'rather do it in elder-scrolls' people: As discussed in the
AGMFAQ (www.lowgenius.com/agmfaq.asp), the problem with that is the same
as it was for morrowind: people generally don't search on 'elder-
scrolls,' they search on 'morrowind.' There is a small group of dedicated
individuals (granted it grows with each game) who might think to look for
ES, but in general, people search for Morrowind when they're looking for
information about Morrowind. My website server logs reflect this, as do
various discussions on this group over the last couple of years; many
people have said that if not for this group, they'd have never heard of
AGES.

I should hope that this never becomes a matter of 'this or that.' The
groups are complimentary, there's no reason not to use them both. I
happen to use AGM because I don't own any of the other games in the ES
series.

Chances are when Oblivion comes out they'll do the same thing. Chances
are someone who comes to Usenet looking for advice about Oblivion or
Morrowind or Daggerfall doesn't know that there's already a thriving ES
community that covers all those games; they just know they want
information about the one they're playing.

*Ideally,* back when the earliest ES groups were created, someone would
have done alt.games.elder-scrolls, and then alt.games.elder-
scrolls.daggerfall, alt.games.elder-scrolls.redguard, alt.games.elder-
scrolls.morrowind, etc., but that's not the way it worked out. Eventually
what will likely happen is game-specific conversations will move to game-
specific newsgroups, while metadiscussions (historical lore about Nim, for
instance) and discussions about games within the ES series that don't have
their own groups will remain in AGES.

--
John Henry
"The Canadian people seem very friendly. I was happy to see them waving
with all five fingers." - George Bush tips his hand, 01Dec2004
www.lowgenius.com
Anonymous
January 22, 2005 12:27:01 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.morrowind (More info?)

John Henry wrote:

> "McGrandpa" <McGrandpaNOT@NOThotmail.com> wrote in news:sL_Hd.51179
> $Z%.25986@fe1.texas.rr.com:
>
>
>>Too bad someone didn't create alt.games.half-life2 right. Most ISP's
>>won't carry it. So, we're all using alt.games.half-life. Would it
>>hurt if a similar thing happened here?
>
>
> Which similar thing?
>
> I checked isc.org for alt.games.half-life2, and it has a control message
> archived; this is the ultimate litmus test for the validity of a
> newsgroup. If the message was malformed it *likely* wouldn't be archived,
> but it could be; I don't know how much of those processes is automated
> anymore (i.e. ISC just takes anything with a cmsg newgroup header). What
> is said to be the problem with that group? Let me know and I'll followup
> with the admins here; they're as clueful as it gets, so if nothing else I
> might be able to send a booster message or something that corrects any
> improper formatting issues.
>
> Note to 'rather do it in elder-scrolls' people: As discussed in the
> AGMFAQ (www.lowgenius.com/agmfaq.asp), the problem with that is the same
> as it was for morrowind: people generally don't search on 'elder-
> scrolls,' they search on 'morrowind.' There is a small group of dedicated
> individuals (granted it grows with each game) who might think to look for
> ES, but in general, people search for Morrowind when they're looking for
> information about Morrowind. My website server logs reflect this, as do
> various discussions on this group over the last couple of years; many
> people have said that if not for this group, they'd have never heard of
> AGES.
>

The problem with your method is that when people are looking for help
with an older game in the series where do they look? Most of the active
posters only follow one group. So if everyone moves to Oblivion then
someone looking for help with Arena, Daggerfall, or Morrowind are only
going to find ghost towns in those groups. There are a number of posts
in this groups from people looking for help with Arena and Daggerfall
and I do not know how they found this group.
Elder Scrolls is the name of the game series and most people would think
to look for that along with the game name. And what happens if after
the group is set up and running Bethesda has to change the name of the
game because of legal problems? We would know where to look but no one
else.


> I should hope that this never becomes a matter of 'this or that.' The
> groups are complimentary, there's no reason not to use them both. I
> happen to use AGM because I don't own any of the other games in the ES
> series.
>
> Chances are when Oblivion comes out they'll do the same thing. Chances
> are someone who comes to Usenet looking for advice about Oblivion or
> Morrowind or Daggerfall doesn't know that there's already a thriving ES
> community that covers all those games; they just know they want
> information about the one they're playing.
>
> *Ideally,* back when the earliest ES groups were created, someone would
> have done alt.games.elder-scrolls, and then alt.games.elder-
> scrolls.daggerfall, alt.games.elder-scrolls.redguard, alt.games.elder-
> scrolls.morrowind, etc., but that's not the way it worked out. Eventually
> what will likely happen is game-specific conversations will move to game-
> specific newsgroups, while metadiscussions (historical lore about Nim, for
> instance) and discussions about games within the ES series that don't have
> their own groups will remain in AGES.
>
Anonymous
January 22, 2005 12:27:02 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.morrowind (More info?)

Michael W. Ryder wrote:

> And what happens if after
> the group is set up and running Bethesda has to change the name of the
> game because of legal problems?

Good point.
Anonymous
January 22, 2005 2:19:30 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.morrowind (More info?)

"John Henry" <jhd@inNOSPAMsurgent.orgy> wrote in message
news:Xns95E57173D402Fjohnhenrylowgeniusco@216.168.3.44
> "McGrandpa" <McGrandpaNOT@NOThotmail.com> wrote in news:sL_Hd.51179
> $Z%.25986@fe1.texas.rr.com:
>
>> Too bad someone didn't create alt.games.half-life2 right. Most ISP's
>> won't carry it. So, we're all using alt.games.half-life. Would it
>> hurt if a similar thing happened here?
>
> Which similar thing?

Nevermind, you created alt.games.morrowind and I'm sure you will get
a.g.oblivion right :) 

>
> I checked isc.org for alt.games.half-life2, and it has a control
> message archived; this is the ultimate litmus test for the validity
> of a newsgroup. If the message was malformed it *likely* wouldn't be
> archived, but it could be; I don't know how much of those processes
> is automated anymore (i.e. ISC just takes anything with a cmsg
> newgroup header). What is said to be the problem with that group?
> Let me know and I'll followup with the admins here; they're as
> clueful as it gets, so if nothing else I might be able to send a
> booster message or something that corrects any improper formatting
> issues.

It is that there are a few people in alt.games.half-life that state
bluntly that alt.games.half-life2 was improperly created. I know
nothing about these things myself. I've tried several times now to have
my ISP pick up a.g.h-l2 but no go so far. I thought it might be due to
some irregularity in the ng's creation. The originator of the new
a.g.h-l2 agrees there was something irregular in the creation of it, but
not the existence of it. I am just going by what OP have said in
a.g.h-l
>
> Note to 'rather do it in elder-scrolls' people: As discussed in the
> AGMFAQ (www.lowgenius.com/agmfaq.asp), the problem with that is the
> same as it was for morrowind: people generally don't search on
> 'elder- scrolls,' they search on 'morrowind.' There is a small group
> of dedicated individuals (granted it grows with each game) who might
> think to look for ES, but in general, people search for Morrowind
> when they're looking for information about Morrowind. My website
> server logs reflect this, as do various discussions on this group
> over the last couple of years; many people have said that if not for
> this group, they'd have never heard of AGES.
>
> I should hope that this never becomes a matter of 'this or that.' The
> groups are complimentary, there's no reason not to use them both. I
> happen to use AGM because I don't own any of the other games in the ES
> series.
>
> Chances are when Oblivion comes out they'll do the same thing.
> Chances are someone who comes to Usenet looking for advice about
> Oblivion or Morrowind or Daggerfall doesn't know that there's already
> a thriving ES community that covers all those games; they just know
> they want information about the one they're playing.
>
> *Ideally,* back when the earliest ES groups were created, someone
> would have done alt.games.elder-scrolls, and then alt.games.elder-
> scrolls.daggerfall, alt.games.elder-scrolls.redguard, alt.games.elder-
> scrolls.morrowind, etc., but that's not the way it worked out.
> Eventually what will likely happen is game-specific conversations
> will move to game- specific newsgroups, while metadiscussions
> (historical lore about Nim, for instance) and discussions about games
> within the ES series that don't have their own groups will remain in
> AGES.

Frankly, me; I think that a seperate ng for oblivion would be much
better, even as a.g.m is better than a.g.e-s (what you said :)  )
McG.
Anonymous
January 22, 2005 4:44:16 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.morrowind (More info?)

The same thing happened when Diablo 2 came out. There was quite an active
community at a.g.diablo, and then somebody decided to create a.g.diablo2.
There was much contention at the time, but now both groups are equally
thriving, despite the fact that almost nobody in either group ever discusses
Diablo 1 anymore. Of course, who knows what will happen if they ever create
a Diablo 3. I don't think anybody could justify the existence of a THIRD
group for the series, and both the AGD and AGD2 groups would certainly want
to be discussing the new game. (AGD2 has also seen a good bit of discussion
about World of Warcraft, since that game doesn't seem to have its own group
yet, and many people are calling it the unofficial D3.)

I do see John's logic for having a Morrowind group and not just
Elder-Scrolls. Heck, I didn't even notice the words "Elder Scrolls" in the
title of the game until it was brought up here. If I hadn't found this
group, I might have searched for Bethesda or something, but it would never
have occurred to me to search for Elder Scrolls. Then again, this is the
first game in the series I've played, and I hadn't even heard of the others
before this. I have a feeling though, that Oblivion is a game which will be
primarily of interest to current Morrowind players, and may not attract as
many newcomers to the series as Morrowind has. I may be totally wrong about
that, but I haven't seen as much excitement about Oblivion in other game
forums as I saw about Morrowind when it was just coming out...
!