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Long range ethernet / homepna

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August 6, 2004 11:32:13 AM

Archived from groups: comp.dcom.lans.ethernet (More info?)

I've been doing some voluntary work at a local scout camp site, they
have cat5 buried in the ground to link the close-together buildings
together (for broadband and CCTV over IP) when they need to extend to
network out to further locations they string cat 5 from tree to tree
with repeaters where necessary.

They now need to look at permanently cabling up some of the further
locations, they have 20-pair phone cabling in the ground and have used
equipment borrowed from a telephone company to send data over the
cabling, It worked very well (it should it was worth 11k ukp)

They are of course very price sensitive so are looking at perhaps
homepna Ethernet bridges, is there any particular box suited to
driving over long distances (250 - 300 metres) and/or is there
somewhere they should be looking to pick up used kit (they haven't
found anything on eBay so far!).

Thanks in advance.
Anonymous
August 6, 2004 3:11:45 PM

Archived from groups: comp.dcom.lans.ethernet (More info?)

Neil wrote:

> I've been doing some voluntary work at a local scout camp site, they
> have cat5 buried in the ground to link the close-together buildings
> together (for broadband and CCTV over IP) when they need to extend to
> network out to further locations they string cat 5 from tree to tree
> with repeaters where necessary.
>
> They now need to look at permanently cabling up some of the further
> locations, they have 20-pair phone cabling in the ground and have used
> equipment borrowed from a telephone company to send data over the
> cabling, It worked very well (it should it was worth 11k ukp)
>
> They are of course very price sensitive so are looking at perhaps
> homepna Ethernet bridges, is there any particular box suited to
> driving over long distances (250 - 300 metres) and/or is there
> somewhere they should be looking to pick up used kit (they haven't
> found anything on eBay so far!).
>
> Thanks in advance.

Given that HomePNA is pretty much stillborne I doubt you're going to find
much used equipment. It was an OK idea but its real market was older homes
that didn't have structured cabling and wireless has pretty much killed its
chances in that market and there isn't any other niche that would result in
enough sales to make it worthwhile for the manufacturers to keep the stuff
in production.

If you're on a tight budget you'll probably have better luck finding some
used 802.11 equipment and rigging the famous "Pringles can antenna" (google
that) if you can get a clear line of sight.

--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
Anonymous
August 6, 2004 6:58:10 PM

Archived from groups: comp.dcom.lans.ethernet (More info?)

On 2004-08-06, Neil <back_ache@hotmail.com> wrote:
[snip: scouts and cat5 in trees]
> They are of course very price sensitive so are looking at perhaps
> homepna Ethernet bridges, is there any particular box suited to
> driving over long distances (250 - 300 metres) and/or is there
> somewhere they should be looking to pick up used kit (they haven't
> found anything on eBay so far!).

If there's electronic people in the neighbourhood they could try and
have them build their own optical link:

http://ronja.twibright.com/

(If they try, it would be interesting to know how you fare.)


--
j p d (at) d s b (dot) t u d e l f t (dot) n l .
Related resources
August 7, 2004 12:29:19 PM

Archived from groups: comp.dcom.lans.ethernet (More info?)

Thankyou for your ideas so far, keep them coming!

I should mention a couple more limitations this site has, it has no
line of sight between buildings as it is full of trees and the
pathways meander through them also high-evelation is also not possible
as they are at the end of the runway of a small airport.

One idea I had was perhaps using a truckload of old wifi routers and
configuring them as a mesh though as trees are great at asorbing
signal we would need a lot of them.

Another thought is if there anywhere around that would sell old lan
extension kit?

I think if we win the lottery tommorow or someone gives us a load of
old ducting we'd sink fibre into the ground until then we're glad of
your information and ideas!

Thanks again.
Anonymous
August 7, 2004 8:36:50 PM

Archived from groups: comp.dcom.lans.ethernet (More info?)

Neil wrote:

> Thankyou for your ideas so far, keep them coming!

> I should mention a couple more limitations this site has, it has no
> line of sight between buildings as it is full of trees and the
> pathways meander through them also high-evelation is also not possible
> as they are at the end of the runway of a small airport.

How about T1? (Or if you are in Europe, E1).

Used T1 routers and CSU/DSU aren't so hard to find, and should
run fine through your multipair phone cabling. It is only about
1.5 megabits/second, but maybe fast enough for what you want.

There has also been suggestions along the lines of running
802.11 signals through coax cable. One might need attenuators
to avoid saturating the receiver, though a cable with wire loops
at each end placed near the antennae might also do it.

Cheap coax has fairly high loss at 2.4GHz, but that might not
be so much of a problem.

-- glen
Anonymous
August 8, 2004 7:17:39 AM

Archived from groups: comp.dcom.lans.ethernet (More info?)

On 6 Aug 2004 07:32:13 -0700, back_ache@hotmail.com (Neil) wrote:

>I've been doing some voluntary work at a local scout camp site, they
>have cat5 buried in the ground to link the close-together buildings
>together (for broadband and CCTV over IP) when they need to extend to
>network out to further locations they string cat 5 from tree to tree
>with repeaters where necessary.
>
>They now need to look at permanently cabling up some of the further
>locations, they have 20-pair phone cabling in the ground and have used
>equipment borrowed from a telephone company to send data over the
>cabling, It worked very well (it should it was worth 11k ukp)
>
>They are of course very price sensitive so are looking at perhaps
>homepna Ethernet bridges, is there any particular box suited to
>driving over long distances (250 - 300 metres) and/or is there
>somewhere they should be looking to pick up used kit (they haven't
>found anything on eBay so far!).
>
>Thanks in advance.

What you are doing is a great way to get people killed if there is
lightning in the area and cabling has no protectors. All protectors
should be solidly grounded to AC service ground(s).
Anonymous
August 8, 2004 7:17:40 AM

Archived from groups: comp.dcom.lans.ethernet (More info?)

nospam@att.net wrote:

> On 6 Aug 2004 07:32:13 -0700, back_ache@hotmail.com (Neil) wrote:
>
>>I've been doing some voluntary work at a local scout camp site, they
>>have cat5 buried in the ground to link the close-together buildings
>>together (for broadband and CCTV over IP) when they need to extend to
>>network out to further locations they string cat 5 from tree to tree
>>with repeaters where necessary.
>>
>>They now need to look at permanently cabling up some of the further
>>locations, they have 20-pair phone cabling in the ground and have used
>>equipment borrowed from a telephone company to send data over the
>>cabling, It worked very well (it should it was worth 11k ukp)
>>
>>They are of course very price sensitive so are looking at perhaps
>>homepna Ethernet bridges, is there any particular box suited to
>>driving over long distances (250 - 300 metres) and/or is there
>>somewhere they should be looking to pick up used kit (they haven't
>>found anything on eBay so far!).
>>
>>Thanks in advance.
>
> What you are doing is a great way to get people killed if there is
> lightning in the area and cabling has no protectors. All protectors
> should be solidly grounded to AC service ground(s).

I'm curious--how many people have been killed due to lightning striking CAT5
cables strung from tree to tree and used to carry data?

--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
August 8, 2004 7:55:28 AM

Archived from groups: comp.dcom.lans.ethernet (More info?)

> Used T1 routers and CSU/DSU aren't so hard to find, and should
> run fine through your multipair phone cabling. It is only about
> 1.5 megabits/second, but maybe fast enough for what you want.

This sounds like a great idea!

A solution and cisco practice rolled into one!

So if we get a couple of old routers from ebay we could have a
solution!

Would I need NTE's to convert it from d-connector to phone pair or can
I just bring the twisted pair straight to the d-connector (with help
from a friendly soldering iron) ?

thanks in advance!
Anonymous
August 8, 2004 3:57:30 PM

Archived from groups: comp.dcom.lans.ethernet (More info?)

Background material for this task was discussed previously
in multiple posts of thread entitled "267' and no ethernet
connection. Wrong cable ???" in comp.dcom.lans.ethernet on
21 Oct 2002 including this post at
http://tinyurl.com/4wgxk

The problem solved by the telephone company to protect their
switching computer is the same solution you must provide to
protect transistors in that router. All incoming utility
wires must connect less than 10 feet to a single point ground
before entering the building. Concept is not difficult but
does require care by a network installer. If not, then one
building becomes the lightning rod that carries a destructive
surge to earth ground - through router in other building.

There is no less expensive solution than the twisted pair
copper wire. Effective protection of that wire and associated
transistors is really quite simple. The complicated part is
understanding the principles. Read that other discussion.

Neil wrote:
> Thankyou for your ideas so far, keep them coming!
>
> I should mention a couple more limitations this site has, it has no
> line of sight between buildings as it is full of trees and the
> pathways meander through them also high-evelation is also not
> possible as they are at the end of the runway of a small airport.
>
> One idea I had was perhaps using a truckload of old wifi routers and
> configuring them as a mesh though as trees are great at asorbing
> signal we would need a lot of them.
>
> Another thought is if there anywhere around that would sell old lan
> extension kit?
>
> I think if we win the lottery tommorow or someone gives us a load of
> old ducting we'd sink fibre into the ground until then we're glad of
> your information and ideas!
>
> Thanks again.
Anonymous
August 8, 2004 5:19:31 PM

Archived from groups: comp.dcom.lans.ethernet (More info?)

Neil wrote:

> Would I need NTE's to convert it from d-connector to phone pair or can
> I just bring the twisted pair straight to the d-connector (with help
> from a friendly soldering iron) ?

If the boxes have builtin CSU/DSUs, you don't need NTEs (=external
CSU/DSU). Just wire 'em up.

Regards,

Marco.
August 12, 2004 7:51:18 AM

Archived from groups: comp.dcom.lans.ethernet (More info?)

I've managed to get hold of a couple of DTE - G703 converters can I
simply run the signal from the RG45 connectors over the distance or
do I have to use synchronous modems?
August 12, 2004 9:14:40 AM

Archived from groups: comp.dcom.lans.ethernet (More info?)

I have a read though the website you gave me a link to, though we
can't use the optical link due to not having line-of-sight, the same
circuit can be used over twisted pair.

http://ronja.twibright.com/faq.php

So this may be an option after all.

Thanks for the link!
Anonymous
November 7, 2004 3:53:22 PM

Archived from groups: comp.dcom.lans.ethernet (More info?)

Neil wrote:

> I've been doing some voluntary work at a local scout camp site, they
> have cat5 buried in the ground to link the close-together buildings
> together (for broadband and CCTV over IP) when they need to extend to
> network out to further locations they string cat 5 from tree to tree
> with repeaters where necessary.
>
> They now need to look at permanently cabling up some of the further
> locations, they have 20-pair phone cabling in the ground and have used
> equipment borrowed from a telephone company to send data over the
> cabling, It worked very well (it should it was worth 11k ukp)
>
> They are of course very price sensitive so are looking at perhaps
> homepna Ethernet bridges, is there any particular box suited to
> driving over long distances (250 - 300 metres) and/or is there
> somewhere they should be looking to pick up used kit (they haven't
> found anything on eBay so far!).


http://www.cisco.com/en/US/products/hw/switches/ps4916/
Anonymous
November 9, 2004 8:44:02 AM

Archived from groups: comp.dcom.lans.ethernet (More info?)

Cisco Long reach ethernet is great little solution, unfortunatly it is
out of our league price wise
Anonymous
November 9, 2004 4:17:35 PM

Archived from groups: comp.dcom.lans.ethernet (More info?)

back_ache wrote:

> Cisco Long reach ethernet is great little solution, unfortunatly it is
> out of our league price wise

Looking at it, I'm surprised at how low the prices are, in the US anyway.
It's almost down into the range of consumer equipment.

--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
!