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Last response: in Graphics & Displays
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August 15, 2006 4:56:50 PM

Hi guys
i have this problem, i dont know which hardware is causing it. i will tell u the things that happens frequently, but first my pc specs:
AMD 64bit 3000+ Socket 754
MSI k8n neo3-f
1 Gb DDR 400 Kingston
ATI Radeon 9700pro
600W Magna Powersupply
80 Gb Maxtor HDD (IDE Cable)
Viewsonic PS790
Now for the problem:
first of all my vga card has a compatibility problems with many pcs, like i have ran it on 8 different pcs and it worked only on four pcs, note that it is not 100% compatible with them as well, as far as i think. when i run games, my pc hangs or restarts after few minutes. and recently when not playing any games, glitches come on the screen, like u cant see anything once they are on the screen. i have tried different psu's,and RAMs, but no luck. Can anyone tell me whats wrong and how can i rectify this problem. Hope to hear from u soon. Thanks.

More about : question

August 15, 2006 5:03:30 PM

What are your CPU and GPU temps?
a b U Graphics card
August 15, 2006 5:36:39 PM

Quote:
Hi guys
i have this problem, i dont know which hardware is causing it. i will tell u the things that happens frequently, but first my pc specs:
AMD 64bit 3000+ Socket 754
MSI k8n neo3-f
1 Gb DDR 400 Kingston
ATI Radeon 9700pro
600W Magna Powersupply
80 Gb Maxtor HDD (IDE Cable)
Viewsonic PS790
Now for the problem:
first of all my vga card has a compatibility problems with many pcs, like i have ran it on 8 different pcs and it worked only on four pcs, note that it is not 100% compatible with them as well, as far as i think. when i run games, my pc hangs or restarts after few minutes. and recently when not playing any games, glitches come on the screen, like u cant see anything once they are on the screen. i have tried different psu's,and RAMs, but no luck. Can anyone tell me whats wrong and how can i rectify this problem. Hope to hear from u soon. Thanks.


Sounds like you have tried everything you know to fix the problem. You might try a different video card if available. Also, that 80g IDE Maxtor HD may be going out. Is the HD old? Does it make any noise?
Related resources
August 15, 2006 6:51:52 PM

Quote:
Also, that 80g IDE Maxtor HD may be going out. Is the HD old? Does it make any noise?


I was gonna say the same thing but a bad hard drive will not cause graphical glitches.

Most likely

1. His video card is overheating - use the PC with an open and see if the problem goes away; OR

2. The video card drivers were not installed properly (whenever he tried it on different machines, including his own). There is NO good reason why his video card would be incompatible with so many different computers - go to the ATI web site and read the proper steps to take in order to remove old drivers and install new ones.
August 15, 2006 7:14:51 PM

as far as my vga card over heat is concerned, i would like to add that i have 5 case fans installed, and my temps are as follows:
CPU 47 degrees
System 67 degrees
PLease note that these temperatures are noted when the computer is not under any heavy load. i used nvidia's ntune software to check the temps. Can u suggest a proper program which can tell the temperature of all my components, like vga card, cpu, motherboard, hdd, and etc. and please can u tell me as well if my powersupply is sufficient or not. i have tried running my vga card under low temperatures as well, but no luck. and as for the installation of drivers are concerned, the following steps are which i do when installing new drivers:
uninstall old drivers
restart my pc
install new drivers, and
restart my pc again
thanks for quick replies, hope that u guys can find a solution to my problem.
August 15, 2006 7:20:27 PM

one more thing that i forgot to add on my previous post is that i have tried two more vga cards on my pc:
1) the old Geforce Riva TNT2 16mb vga card
2) Geforce fx5700le
and they both worked perfectly, without a single problem.
a b U Graphics card
August 15, 2006 7:23:16 PM

I was going to mention update drivers, but then like you I saw where he put the card in four or more computers that failed. Now I'm thinking He may have downlooaded the latest drivers, but He has an older 9700. That card requires a different driver than say, my 1800xt. You never know.
August 15, 2006 7:27:52 PM

i would like to tell u that i have tried around 7 different drivers from old to the latest ones. but no luck. so what do u suggest me to do now.
a b U Graphics card
August 15, 2006 7:28:43 PM

Quote:
one more thing that i forgot to add on my previous post is that i have tried two more vga cards on my pc:
1) the old Geforce Riva TNT2 16mb vga card
2) Geforce fx5700le
and they both worked perfectly, without a single problem.


So the problem is with the 9700 and/or the power supplying it, etc.? BTW, DO you have the latest driver for the 9700 series installed? Have you removed any old drivers?
a b U Graphics card
August 15, 2006 7:30:10 PM

Quote:
i would like to tell u that i have tried around 7 different drivers from old to the latest ones. but no luck. so what do u suggest me to do now.


If the 9700 failed in about four of eight computers, I'd say the card has a problem. Are you overclocking it when it fails?
August 15, 2006 7:34:57 PM

it is running on stock settings, though my motherboard has a DOT technology which automatically overclocks my cpu as far as i know.
August 15, 2006 7:35:16 PM

Quote:
I was going to mention update drivers, but then like you I saw where he put the card in four or more computers that failed. Now I'm thinking He may have downlooaded the latest drivers, but He has an older 9700. That card requires a different driver than say, my 1800xt. You never know.


I have a second system w/ the 9700pro and it runs the same version of catalyst that my 1900 runs. No issues.

@ the OP: I am w/ Gary_Busey and others, I lean towards a heat issue first and then maybe bad driver install. Run w/ a house fan pointing right in the case (side door open) and see if that fixes it. (suggested above) If that fixes it then you need to re-think the airflow in the case. Otherwise you should try removing all drivers, including ntune (it may be setting the agp bus clock too high) and reinstall only what you need like the mobo drivers (not ntune and oc software) and video drivers.
August 15, 2006 7:41:20 PM

the problem is that when i connect the vga card to my computer and start it, once the desktop is shown, glitches starts to come, and they fill the whole screen quickly. so i becomes impossible for me to see anything.
a b U Graphics card
August 15, 2006 7:46:07 PM

Quote:
it is running on stock settings, though my motherboard has a DOT technology which automatically overclocks my cpu as far as i know.


I meant overclocking the video card. Anyway, do what Sorjurn suggested and uninstall the nVida program. I will tell you I had a computer doing the same sort of thing. It was the video card dying.
August 15, 2006 7:57:57 PM

can u be more specific on what do i unistall. Do u mean that i reinstall my windows and only install the necessary drivers that are required to run my vga card?
a b U Graphics card
August 15, 2006 8:04:51 PM

Quote:
can u be more specific on what do i unistall. Do u mean that i reinstall my windows and only install the necessary drivers that are required to run my vga card?


Who said uninstall windows? If your cardfails in four of eight computers you should look for an alternative. Card.

Any Nvida video drivers, uninstall those. If you are monitoring your cards performance with an Nvidia program...I would lose that Nvidia program too.
August 15, 2006 8:05:23 PM

well, that would certainly do it. The only drivers you should need outside of windows sp2 is the mobo drivers (again, not ntun or overclock software... just drivers) and video card drivers. All else can wait.

You do not really need to wipe windows, but that is the best way to be sure no driver bugs are there. Otherwise just uninstall all drivers and related oc software and reinstall just the mobo and card drivers. (many reboots to do that of course ;)  )

if that does not fix it, then you may have a dead card or a dead mobo (agp slot).
August 15, 2006 8:50:58 PM

Just a note, that the last time I have seen this weird behavior like glitches appearing on the screen, I would say that there is a possibility of bad video memory, I cannot say why it works in other machines with no problems. I would say that it’s the video memory... bad video card.
August 15, 2006 9:01:28 PM

thanks for your advise, i will try it and tell u the results in a moment.
August 15, 2006 9:17:35 PM

now the problem occured is that the glitches come in the bios screen as well now. Things are getting worse now :(  . Any suggestions now. One more thing, can u please tell me which software do u use to check the temperature of your hardwares, like vga card, cpu, motherboard, hdd and powersupply consumption.
August 15, 2006 9:21:51 PM

Quote:
I lean towards a heat issue first and then maybe bad driver install



I think you lean correctly. You wrote above that your system temps are 67C. Dude, that's TOO high. CPU at 47C is okay (even when idle) but system?

You know, of course, what it means. Right? It means that your ambient temperature in the PC case is 67C when the machine is idle :!: Can you imagine how hot it gets when you load it a bit? When your video card fan grabs 80C air to try and cool your card.... ahem... well... you guessed it.

Also, if when you said "system temp" you actually meant your PWM temp, then the situation is even worse. The system shutdown threshold temp for PWM is usually 75C. So, if your PWM shows 67C at idle your PC will shut down or lock up or crash under any (even moderate) load. If your motherboard has a PWM fan, see if it works.

The fact that you have 5 system fans means nothing. They could be weak, not spinning fast enough or they could be oriented incorrectly (like instead of blowing hot air out they could be oriented as intake fans or they could be blowing at each other disrupting airflow, or you could have cables and other things in the way of airflow which defeats the purpose altogether.)
a b U Graphics card
August 15, 2006 9:32:12 PM

The system temps is too high especially with the five or six case fans. But how do you explain the card fails to run correctly in four other computers? Don't lose any sleep over it :D  .
August 15, 2006 9:46:55 PM

the same things happen. in one pc, i tried, the problem was that when i ran that pc, it used to restart and an error message generated by windows used to come which said that it was a hardware faliure.
August 15, 2006 9:49:14 PM

anyways, what do u suggest now? what should i do? and please tell me a software that detects the system temp, i u know of one.
a b U Graphics card
August 15, 2006 9:52:42 PM

Quote:
the same things happen. in one pc, i tried, the problem was that when i ran that pc, it used to restart and an error message generated by windows used to come which said that it was a hardware faliure.


Yes. Happened to me too. My card was having a heart attack. If that card is crashing another system too, it's the card causing you all the problems. I think you can safely say, it's dying.
August 15, 2006 9:57:54 PM

Borrow the same (or similar) card from someone and try to use it in your PC. By "similar" I mean a card of the same generation/similar specifications, including power supply requirement, if any. If the other card works fine, your 9700PRO is dead. I do not remember if 9700PROs had a minimum power supply requirement. If they did, then your PSU may be inadequate. Even if the PSU is rated at the appropriate wattage it is not guaranteed to deliver enough power on its 12V rail. Low quality PSUs can deliver as little as 50% of the amount of power they are rated for. It is quite possible that 4 out of 8 PCs where you tried your card had bad PSUs. Say, for example, if your card needs a 350W PSU and you tried it in 4 Dells which have a 250W PSU you would likely get bad results.
August 15, 2006 9:59:11 PM

in other words, i can now scrap it or use its parts as spare parts like ram sinks, fan, and etc. But r u sure that its the end or is there anyway to save it?
August 15, 2006 10:03:30 PM

how do we know if our psu is suffiecient or not. like what are the indications of psu if it is insuffiecient? and how do we check whether our psu is suppling 12v in the rail?
a b U Graphics card
August 15, 2006 10:23:28 PM

Quote:
in other words, i can now scrap it or use its parts as spare parts like ram sinks, fan, and etc. But r u sure that its the end or is there anyway to save it?


Well, I was lucky and got a refund on my dead card. That was after seven months of use! Same thing. Blue screens. Computer restarting. Games crashing. The card always ran hot from the day I installed it (hint).

I think Slava is giving you excellent advise. You would need a similiar card and different PSU to troubleshoot any better than you are doing currently. Hate to say scrap it, but you could pick up a used one up for like $50 bucks on Ebay. Don't quote, but for pocket change.

I have burned out hard drives, screwed up MB, and all kinds of non working cables, monitors with bent pins, stuff I picked up in the trash (don't laugh). I would try and get another card in there and see what happens.
August 15, 2006 10:25:25 PM

I agree, if he's having display corruption issues in the BIOS it is definately a hardware issue that's growing worse.
a b U Graphics card
August 15, 2006 10:52:01 PM

Quote:
I agree, if he's having display corruption issues in the BIOS it is definately a hardware issue that's growing worse.


You would think He has never experienced a card dying on him. He's pretty smart. Someone with a lesser brain would have already bought a new CPU, HD and MB. Wait, that's what I did! 8O
August 16, 2006 9:21:34 AM

Ditch that card it's 'legendary' but fucking evil.

I bought one after the reviews, and put it in an MSI K7N420-Pro (read, NFORCE) motherboard. It did all the things you describe in games, and was a complete bitch. I upgraded my generic 350w PSU to a Thermaltake 480w... and it STILL did it. My problems were only in games, not in BIOS/windows.

I spent 3 weeks bitching to the tech support team of my supplier (dabs.com) 'weve tested them and they work fine' (apparently ATI/nVidia had not told them of any issues despite the fact that people all over the internet were having problems) and finally got to send it back.

I went and bought an FX5900XT, shoved it in, similar performance and 100% rock solid ever since.

Moral of the story: check compatibility first.

Second moral: try another video card. If your problem is gone, you know whats wrong.
August 16, 2006 2:35:47 PM

here is something I missed:

a friend of mine had a 9800pro on an abit ic7g mobo. He would get similar glitches that you describe that did get worse as time progressed. After talking w/ him I think you may have the same issue. It was a hercules that had a nice warranty so he got it "fixed" only to have the same issues. It worked fine in an nforce-2 mobo (we tried many) but that abit board freaked it out. At the time mine also would freak out in only one game (w40k:D OW) but stopped after a game patch. We narrowed it down through support and forums to 2 things. If we set the mobo to agp 4x in the bios and set it that way in the drivers it cleared most of it up. The next thing was turning off fastwrites.

This did not stop it and was very irritating. It was finally cleared up w/ a mobo replacement. It was not the card though. It started when his northbridge chipset fan died and things got hot. (another friend had the same setup but w/ a 9600xt and had similar issues) Replacing the fan did not fix it, and the damage may have been done already. (not truly sure if heat started it...)

There is a little known issue that crops up on many mobos w/ the 9x00 series and agp 8x. Only on some mobo/chipset combos and only sometimes cleared up w/ the fix I described. In the case of my friends both replaced the mobo and their cards worked fine.

Just something else to try...
August 16, 2006 7:32:00 PM

guy i would like to say that my vga card problem has reached to another level. now when i connect it, the computer seems to operate fine, like the windows is loaded, but the monitor stays in stand-by mode.it doesnt get any signals from the vga card. now what do u say about this and what should i do now?
August 16, 2006 7:36:32 PM

well, if that was after you did the changes I suggested there then that may have a connection but I am not sure.

More then likely though the things you are experiencing are not connected to the agp8x or anything like it and you really do have a dead card.

Sorry man, thought I could help on that one. I guess not. :( 
August 16, 2006 7:45:33 PM

thanks a lot for helping, even though the results were bad, but i still appreciate the help u offered, thanks. only one thing, can u please tell me of a software which can tell me the temperature of all the components like the cpu, motherboard, vga card, and etc. please, i really need one. thanks.
August 16, 2006 7:50:27 PM

get speedfan
great app that gets everything. The only component it can't read is the video card unless the card and mobo support hardware monitoring together. afaik the 9700 did not come w/ it, and all newer ati cards use catalyst to read the temps. Other then that you can read all the rest w/ speedfan. Lots of plugins for other apps allow it to report to other programs, but speedfan alone is perfect for ya.
August 16, 2006 8:12:54 PM

one more thing, can u tell me which psu will be best for me if i have to go for sli or crossfire. my budget is around US$100.
August 16, 2006 8:19:05 PM

I would stick w/ one from antec or enermax (the two that I have first hand experience in that price range) as for that price they will never let you down. If you want the sli certification that is fine, but if you get one from them that sits at that price you will not lose out regardless of certification.

There are other good companies, thermaltake, ocz, seasonic... but I have not personally used them. I have an enermax 430watt (got it when that was HUGE) psu that is ~4years (+/-) old and still going strong running an athlonxp 2700 oc'd, 9700pro oc'd, 3 hard drives, 2 opticals etc. w/ no issues.

look up models from them on newegg or you shopper of choice.

my 2 bits. rock on man, good luck.
August 16, 2006 8:26:42 PM

i am actually intrested on OCZ GameXStream 600W psu. its a little higher than my buget but will manage it as it will serve good. heres the link:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/CustRatingReview.asp?Item...
view it and tell me what do u say about it, as i dont know much about psu and the 12V rail thingy.
August 16, 2006 8:42:49 PM

looks good, like I said I have never had an ocz... but it is a good brand.
August 16, 2006 8:51:17 PM

600W psu will be fine for crossfire or sli or shall i take a 700W psu for safe side?
August 16, 2006 8:54:54 PM

nah, that 600w is fine. Ony caveat is that if the plan is to go to sli, and you can afford the higher wattage then get it. More overhead = longer life for the psu. Buy as much as you can afford in all things hardware. Assuming the jump from 600 to 700 is within the same brand as lesser brands advertise higher watts but hardly deliver.
August 17, 2006 3:05:27 PM

thanks for your help man. i am very grateful to u. thanks once again.
!