Sign in with
Sign up | Sign in
Your question
Closed

System Builder Marathon: Overclocking

Tags:
  • Overclocking
  • System Builder
  • Systems
  • Product
Last response: in Reviews comments
Share
Anonymous
a b K Overclocking
July 2, 2008 12:20:05 PM

Our three systems have been built and tested, now its time to put them to the real test: Will overclocking provide the anticipated performance advantages?

System Builder Marathon: Overclocking : Read more

More about : system builder marathon overclocking

July 2, 2008 6:28:46 PM

What a disappointment for the E7200...
I have mine clocked at 3.6GHz@1.325V on a P35-DS3L, and up to 4.0GHz at 1.425V (although I would never run it at that voltage)

Maybe the MSI mobo wasn't the best choice
Score
0
July 2, 2008 8:21:27 PM

What a disappointment for the 4000$ machine .. overclocked and it does not beat the March machine by much at all .. in fact it loses a lot of gaming results!!..

Score
0
Related resources
July 2, 2008 9:21:37 PM

I guess it probably wasn't possible, but it would have been better if you guys had swapped the MSI mobo after you found it inadequate. Its also too bad that you guys chose quad sli for the $4000 build, but you don't know until you try I guess.
Score
0
July 2, 2008 10:13:16 PM

The moral of the story is SLI motherboards suck badly, and are no competition from the intel based solutions, such as the P35,P45 and X38/48 based systems. I am COMPLETELY surprised that not one of these systems had a P45 chipset with 2 4870 or 4850 graphics cards. The P45 will do a FSB probably 500 MHZ higher than that piece of crap board they used on the low end system.

The whole test was Nvidia crap motherboards and NVidia graphics cards? This test was a total fail. They could have done way better, even for the money on each test for overall performance.

it just shows me the people working there just like their paychecks, because they sure don't do any real research on what systems are really good for the money. it looks like they just tossed a bunch of things together they probably got for free and benchmarked it.

The sub 1000 build is an embarrassment to an organization like Toms. Toms should not allow such failures to happen, he needs systems that command respect. All that review commanded was laughter.
Score
-5
a b K Overclocking
July 2, 2008 10:44:55 PM

LAAkuma said:
I am COMPLETELY surprised that not one of these systems had a P45 chipset with 2 4870 or 4850 graphics cards.


No you're not, you've read enough to know that this series was published three weeks late and that the 4850 wasn't available when the systems were built 5 weeks ago. So why would you say this if you knew better? I think we can understand your motives. Shame on you.

LAAkuma said:

The whole test was Nvidia crap motherboards and NVidia graphics cards? This test was a total fail. They could have done way better, even for the money on each test for overall performance.

Intel makes great chipsets, but they didn't support the best graphics cards in SLI mode. These great graphics cards didn't become crap simply because the 4850 was released, instead the 4850 raised the bar. That put former upper-midrange nVidia cards into the lower-midrange.

LAAkuma said:

it just shows me the people working there just like their paychecks, because they sure don't do any real research on what systems are really good for the money. it looks like they just tossed a bunch of things together they probably got for free and benchmarked it.

LOL, if you'd done any research you wouldn't have said that. But you seem inteligent, so you probably did your research, figured out that these were superior configurations when specified in May, then, just to insult everyone for being late, feigned ignorance.

LAAkuma said:

The sub 1000 build is an embarrassment to an organization like Toms. Toms should not allow such failures to happen, he needs systems that command respect. All that review commanded was laughter.


Unfortunately, your comments are too sick to command laughter. The $1000 system was a brilliant build in May, and its simply unfortunate that the article didn't go up on June 9 when it was planned.
Score
3
a b K Overclocking
July 2, 2008 10:48:17 PM

mgl888 said:
What a disappointment for the E7200...
I have mine clocked at 3.6GHz@1.325V on a P35-DS3L, and up to 4.0GHz at 1.425V (although I would never run it at that voltage)

Maybe the MSI mobo wasn't the best choice



The motherboard problem was unfortunate. The team tested a bunch of processors on the MSI motherboard, and the E7200 was the only one with the problem. It was the best SLI motherboard for around $150, and if the guys had any idea this would happen they might have chosen a different processor.
Score
1
Anonymous
a b K Overclocking
July 2, 2008 10:56:18 PM

Anyone thinking they are gonna get a huge performace boost in games on a $4,000 dollar system compared to a $2,000 is freaking retarded. performane to price ratio drops signifigantly once ur comp hits the $2,000 mark you cant expect to double the price of all components on a processor and only get 15-25 percent performance increase and if ur using crysis as ur comparison that game is extremely inefficent at utilizing graphics cards hardware if you compare the performance to price ration on all the systems for crysis in order to get any real boost in performance you have to drasticly increase the cost of ur graphics cards is this the tom teams fault..no this is the way its always been. performance increases always diminishes as you go up in price range. And the 2 GX2s im sure was a experiment to see if nividas top of the line cards could dish it out and they can but you can expect to pay for it or you can try to find some cheaper 8800gtxs but they are kinda hard to find and if you guys dont like there setups then change them urself these systems werent ment to be the end all to be all systems in those price ranges they were ment to give you a rough idea of what kind of performance you can get in these price ranges and overclocking isnt always a exactly science you cant look at a product and say with out a doubt it will overclock flawlessly...if that were the case the feaking manufacture would have done that already
Score
0
July 3, 2008 12:43:11 AM

HI crashman.

What I meant was, the whole thing was a total waste of time. When a TOTAL and COMPLETE shift in graphics cards comes out about 2 weeks ago, and it was published the last 3 days, there is no excuse, whatsoever for not including it. So delay the thing 2 more days. No big deal.

Total waste of time. And 3.1 GHZ on that Wolfdale? Shame, shame.

My 6 year old kid clocked his wolfdale to 3.6 just reading basic information I told him to read on overclockers.com.

So the guys at Tom's can't do better than my 6 year old son? And if that motherboard sucks, how about using another one. Its no excuse. its just lazyness.

What that review showed the world, is like I said. The people doing the tests don't give a flying hoot, no matter what they say, about doing great tests that are usefull, all they care about is their paycheck.

its undisputed. Its a garbage waste of time, and it should have never been published. I think we can agree on that.

I can't think of 1 site better than Tomshardware. its the top level of reviews, period.

And they do that? people should be fired.

Its total lazyness.

And yes, after the 4800 series came out, which they had 2 weeks of time to use, they should have shifted the review immediately.

Its like me having a car review site, and reviewing a 07 car, then the new model comes out 2 months ago, and I just ignore it, and don't even mention it.

I would be mocked, and my boss would **** fire me.

LAAkuma
Score
-6
a b K Overclocking
July 3, 2008 12:59:03 AM

LAAkuma said:
HI crashman.

What I meant was, the whole thing was a total waste of time. When a TOTAL and COMPLETE shift in graphics cards comes out about 2 weeks ago, and it was published the last 3 days, there is no excuse, whatsoever for not including it. So delay the thing 2 more days. No big deal.
Its total lazyness.


I guess the guys at Tom's Hardware are just a little more honorable than you. They get a bunch of very well selected components for a system in May, they make promises to use those parts in some articles, then when the articles are delayed they still follow through on their promisses.

People who don't keep their promisses deserve to be fired.

To abandon the article would be pure laziness. And it takes more than two days to shift hardware, it takes at least a week to get new hardware and several days to test it.

So, if not for Tom's Hardware keeping its promisses, they could have delayed the series until the middle of This month and given you what you wanted.

That is, unless new hardware came out within those two weeks. Then, you'd be making the same claims about the new system.
Score
2
July 3, 2008 2:42:23 AM

why is everybody bashing tom's writers? reviews are always a guesstimate of what it could possibly be with their configuration. factor in another choice (your own preference) then it can change the results across all benchmarks. i am more than sure that these writers are not saying their configurations are the best or should i say the only industry standard the masses will or can abide by.
for me, these configurations are a merely a dream and by sharing their experiences with these kinds of gear, it is well appreciated by my book.
Score
2
July 3, 2008 3:01:52 AM

laakumaAnd 3.1 GHZ on that Wolfdale? Shame, shame.


It's shameful to report on a CPU/BIOS problem that doesn't work as it should?

Funny, I would have thought shamefulness would have been to sweep it under the rug. I was under the misconception that reporting a real-world experience was our job...

If you want pablum - perfect everything that doesn't reflect real-world PC assembly and configuration - then I guess we have different reporting standards than you.

I'm OK with that, though. :) 
Score
3
July 3, 2008 3:27:54 AM

No wonder I have an Intel Chipset...P35 that is, not some POS NVIDA chipset. My last board was a 570 SLI, waste of money and couldn't OC for anything.
Score
0
July 3, 2008 3:31:36 AM

laakumaHI crashman.What I meant was, the whole thing was a total waste of time. When a TOTAL and COMPLETE shift in graphics cards comes out about 2 weeks ago, and it was published the last 3 days, there is no excuse, whatsoever for not including it. So delay the thing 2 more days. No big deal.Total waste of time. And 3.1 GHZ on that Wolfdale? Shame, shame. My 6 year old kid clocked his wolfdale to 3.6 just reading basic information I told him to read on overclockers.com.So the guys at Tom's can't do better than my 6 year old son? And if that motherboard sucks, how about using another one. Its no excuse. its just lazyness.What that review showed the world, is like I said. The people doing the tests don't give a flying hoot, no matter what they say, about doing great tests that are usefull, all they care about is their paycheck.its undisputed. Its a garbage waste of time, and it should have never been published. I think we can agree on that.I can't think of 1 site better than Tomshardware. its the top level of reviews, period.And they do that? people should be fired.Its total lazyness.And yes, after the 4800 series came out, which they had 2 weeks of time to use, they should have shifted the review immediately.Its like me having a car review site, and reviewing a 07 car, then the new model comes out 2 months ago, and I just ignore it, and don't even mention it.I would be mocked, and my boss would **** fire me.LAAkuma



YA!, go this guy, Don't know who it is, but let the hate out! Someone finally has the huevos to say it how it is.
Score
-2
July 3, 2008 4:17:43 AM

1- the review was NOT a total waste: one can always use it as an example of what hardware NOT to choose at a given budget!
2-I think the authors tried real hard to be honest with the problems they faced with the high end card chopice and the low end mobo choice.
3- the review showed something that i was guessing already: a 3,2Ghz CPU is the minimal for 19x12 gaming and above, NVIDIA cards are poor overclockers with almost no gain from higher clock speeds, my 8800GT also do not increase fps numbers moving core clock from 600 to 720Mhz.
4- i am looking forward to next system build marathon, the next best videocards for the money, as usual: EVERYTHING i read is useful, as long as i keep a grain of salt: you dont like SLI, dont build SLI systems, you dont like NVIDIA mobos, dont use it, but read what happens when someone use them.
Score
5
July 3, 2008 4:53:10 AM

laakumaAnd 3.1 GHZ on that Wolfdale? Shame, shame. My 6 year old kid clocked his wolfdale to 3.6 just reading basic information I told him to read on overclockers.com.So the guys at Tom's can't do better than my 6 year old son? And if that motherboard sucks, how about using another one. Its no excuse. its just lazyness.What that review showed the world, is like I said. The people doing the tests don't give a flying hoot, no matter what they say, about doing great tests that are usefull, all they care about is their paycheck.its undisputed.


you're a jackass

that's a great motherboard
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductReview.aspx?Item=N...

54% of the reviewers on newegg rate it excellent, 5 stars
25% of the reviewers on newegg rate it good, 4 stars

the reviewers at Toms picked this motherboard with full confidence that it would work, as anyone might who read the reviews on newegg; it isn't their fault that this board doesn't work with this new cpu

its an excellent board for a variety of cpus, just not this new one

and how is anyone supposed to know that unless some reviewer goes out and tests it, so this was not a watse of time, this was very informative

this review used one onf Nvidia's top cards in sli, it use a highly rated motherboard and it used the new highly touted e7200, and you know what? they got decent results ! they showed that a sub 950 dollar system can give you plenty of bang for you buck compared to a 1500 dollars system or a 4000 dollar system

why do people keep thinking that the goal of every system builder tom's does is to build he PERFECT system ? its not, its to put a system together and tell us how it performs,
this system performed well, but not great and the reason it wasn't great was NOT their fault, but the reason was informative, educational and beneficial

and your suggestion that "if that motherboard sucks, how about using another one" is just dumb

you honestly think that's a valid suggestion? buy a motherboard and cpu, discover they work PERFECTLY FINE together, then attempt to overclock them and discover that it doesn't oc the way you would like, so you RMA the motherboard and wait a week for a replacement?

newegg: did it work normally?
you: yes
newegg: did it work when you overclocked it?
you: yes
newegg: so, uh, why do you want to return it?
you: it just didn't overclock as much as I wanted
newegg: uh, ok, (lays: - laughing at you silently), just pack it back up, pay the postage and handling and send it back to us, will get a different board in a week or so (lays)
Score
2
July 3, 2008 5:11:24 AM

laakumaThis was an article on the BEST DAMN SYSTEM YOU CAN BUILD for under $1000.Do you understand #4? The best system for under $1000? You get it?


I don't get it, show me where it said the purpose of the article was to buid THE BEST DAMN SYSTEM

laakuma
If you do not release articles that people expect of you, then you fail as a business. You keep failing like this, then you lose readership, and eventually you lose enough reputation and become a joke review web site.


perhaps you didn't realize, one of the builders was laid up in the hospital from reconstructive surgery following an accident.
so if they didn't publish the article you wanted, when you wanted, then maybe you should take that up with his surgeon

Score
2
a b K Overclocking
July 3, 2008 6:51:45 AM

laakumaLOL kid, your a fool. Like a business cares at all if some employee gets in a wreck. "Lets put our business on hold because we lost 1 employee!"LOL Dude, shut your mouth and stick with tetris.LAAkuma

So, you'd think that a site as big as Tom's has a few spare testers and writers they could just move away from one project to finish another? I have news for you, Tom's only had three testers and two writers in the U.S. who qualified. I have more news: Shifting the load to one writer would have still delayed this stuf by two weeks. Now, you might say that a two-week delay is better than a 3-week delay, but what about other articles that one writer would have had to delay, just to handle the responsibilities?

Perhaps you'd prefer the company ship the system to one of Tom's foreign labs? Add shipping time, then think about what articles the foreign writer would have to push aside. You'd still be looking at a 3-week delay anyway.

You can't run a small office as you would a large factory production floor. You can't simply hire some unemployed teenager to do this kind of work. You can't treat professional positions the same way you would unskilled labor positions, unless you have a large pool of unemployed professionals standing by.

This isn't Burger King.
Score
2
a b K Overclocking
July 3, 2008 7:37:38 AM

laakumayes, I know, with management failures comes excuses. Problem is, excuses don't make any money for the company. There is no excuses in business, there is just what I mentioned, reputation, and profit.


Yeh, you definately don't know anything about business if you don't include honoring your business agreements.
Score
2
July 3, 2008 8:40:34 AM

I will remember that next time I post a review where I can't even close the CPU up to the speed stock processors come out. And I will also remember it when I place obsolete video cards in as well.

Nothing like worse than stock CPU clocks and obsolete video cards to display my skill at building value systems.

Fail.
Score
-6
a b K Overclocking
July 3, 2008 8:51:17 AM

laakumaI will remember that next time I post a review where I can't even close the CPU up to the speed stock processors come out. And I will also remember it when I place obsolete video cards in as well.Nothing like worse than stock CPU clocks and obsolete video cards to display my skill at building value systems. Fail.


Now you're just being obtuse. You can't have it both ways; Either the articles are too late, or the cards are outdated. If the articles are NOT outdated, then the graphics cards are, but if the articles ARE outdated, the graphics cards CANNOT be.

You fail.
Score
2
a b K Overclocking
July 3, 2008 8:57:19 AM

laakumaI...Fail.


Edited to get directly to the point of your message. Why don't you just admit that the only problem with these articles are that they're several weeks late. Then you'd have to admit that anything else you said didn't matter.
Score
1
July 3, 2008 10:05:44 AM

Quote:
Tom's only had three testers and two writers in the U.S. who qualified.


For a site this large, that is just pathetic.

Quote:
they make promises to use those parts in some articles


So how much does the site get payed to use sub-par components?
Score
-3
July 3, 2008 10:06:43 AM

OK, seriously? I think laakuma is upset because now he doesn't know what to spend his $1000 on. Does anyone really think these articles are supposed to provide the scientifically proven best systems for their price range? I don't know who would have the time and resources to first purchase every single model and revision of every single component and then test every possible combination of them and determine the "BEST DAMN SYSTEM". But... I think if that were to happen, you can expect the article to be late and new stuff to be out.
Score
1
July 3, 2008 12:59:03 PM

I don't see where anyone stated that their goal was to build the best damn systems ... The writers are given a budget. They select hardware based on that budget. They explain why they've selected each piece of hardware and what they expect from it in terms of performance. They then test it and report their findings.

It is unfortunate that the new ATI and Nvidia cards were not considered due to the timing, but they've mentioned why that was the case in every single article in the series. I don't know if you only look at the graphs or what. I think the articles do a fine job of explaining their reasoning and process. In this case I wasn't impressed with any of the systems, but the reviews were interesting regardless.

Quote:
So how much does the site get payed to use sub-par components?

I'm guessing they get paid a free sub-par component. Hardware companies don't pay people to review their crap harshly. They simply give out free review samples. If they were paying for a review you wouldn't see the article discussing an obvious driver/manufacturing shortcoming. I don't know why you think picking a product and then showing that it failed is going to be something a hardware company pays for.
Score
1
July 3, 2008 2:24:22 PM

I see this review as valid. Why?

Detailed analysis of the benches might reveal info I did not know.
I read these reviews with the 1 goal in mind: *Darth Vader voice* "determine the upgrade path for the next rig"

I'm not here expecting 2 be spoon fed. Building the new rig is ALMOST as much fun as deciding what I want in anycase.
Score
3
July 3, 2008 2:51:26 PM

laakumaI will remember that next time I post a review...


Wow, you're a hardware reviewer. Please let us know which site you work for so I can have a look at your perfect work. (and criticize the hell out of everything I disagree with, too). :D 
Score
1
July 3, 2008 2:57:11 PM

NoyaFor a site this large, that is just pathetic. So how much does the site get payed to use sub-par components?


Are you for real? Seriously.

Let me spell it out for you: 1. We spec it out, 2. we ask the manufacturers for review samples.

Where's the conspiracy there?

Score
1
July 3, 2008 3:49:16 PM

Too many comments to read, I suspect many people have a similar opinion as me...

I know the marathon was done before the release of some really good parts so I'm not going to account for that (although knowing the good parts are coming you should have postponed the marathon... we enthusiasts do wait to see how new parts perform before ordering... really we only build at two times of the year, July and January... after new parts have been released, reviewed, and prices stabilized)

So anyways... can't argue with the intel cpu's in the builds... except maybe the model used... the mid-range should have had a q9300 or q9450, at the least kept the q6700. There is no excuse for the q6600 especially since it is not even a g0... quit pulling old parts out of your bins.
The low end build should have had an e8xxx model cpu... we know the value of the extra cache and the price difference isn't that great.

SLI on every build was a huge mistake... especially for the low end. On a budget, everyone knows that one good card is almost always better than a pair of worse cards, especially since you don't always get a gain with the 2nd card. Why you didn't use a known-great overclocking P35 board with a GTX or GTS is beyond me...

Furthermore, this is the 2nd or 3rd time that Shelton has done some horrible overclocking. Get a new reviewer to handle it, someone that knows how to do a little research in overclocking and gets positive results. What a noob.

btw, most people know that the better air-cooled fansinks are equal to or better than all but the most expensive water-cooled solutions.
Score
1
July 3, 2008 4:57:23 PM

Hi Sublifer,

First of all, I think you're misinformed about multiple videocard configurations. They aren't as bad as they were a couple years ago. No single card in the same price bracket as two 8800 GTs (or two 4850's, now that they're available) will push frames per second like these things can do. Multiple card solutions have really come into their own, and are the price/performance leaders in many cases.

Secondly, Shelton has nothing to withe the poor overclock of the Intel CPU - that was due to what looks like a BIOS problem, it's explained in the overclocking article. As far as the sub-$2000 Q6600, that was me not Shelton, and it overclocked well for an older non-G0 stepping CPU.

Thirdly, I challenge your assumption that air is automatically better than a cheap water-cooled solution. The H20-120 is pretty impressive when compared to air, from what I've seen.
Score
1
a b K Overclocking
July 3, 2008 5:28:17 PM

NoyaFor a site this large, that is just pathetic.So how much does the site get payed to use sub-par components?


The flaw in your argument is that you assume there were any sub-par components. There weren't. Even the MSI motherboard used in the $1000 PC was at the top of its market ($150 SLI motherboards). Unless you'd like to call it a sub-par market.

How much do you think MSI paid to have the overclocking issue on the E7200 revealed? LOL!
Score
2
July 3, 2008 5:48:05 PM

Wow, so much hate and controversy. I'm disappointed with the results of some aspects of the builds and their overclocking (as were the reviewers), but its articles like this that help us enthusiasts avoid making the same mistakes. That's also why they tried out some new things instead of just running the same components as the last marathon. What value would that give us? I give my thanks to the hard work these reviewers have done, problems like the ones here add a lot of work and frustration to a build and I'm glad that after this I'll be able to avoid these problems.
Score
3
July 3, 2008 6:42:22 PM

I do admit that multi-card has improved, but not for every game... there are cases where you get no gain and other times where you actually have a loss of performance. Midrange and high-end build I don't fault your choice for multi-card but for the bargain PC where you look for bang for buck, that $150-200 would have been much better spent elsewhere.

I know the q6600 is a good buy, but its better if you get the g0... when you got the cpu (or pulled it from stock) and realized it wasn't the g0, why didn't you get a different one? My biggest cpu disappointment was the e7200 though. As I mentioned above, the money not spent on the 2nd card would have been great to get a better processor.

As for the last thing, I did not say air was automatically better, I said the better ones can be as good if not better than all but the best water-cooled solutions. (and the H20-120 is far from the best)

Here the H20-120 wins (though they only compare it to intel stock heatsink): http://mobmls.net/MobileReports/listings.asp?ID=ISD2706...
It doesn't win by a lot, but it wins.

Here it does fine as well (but 5 air cooled solutions match or beat it): http://www.anandtech.com/casecoolingpsus/showdoc.aspx?i...
And of course, the latest HDT type heatsinks were not included in those tests.

I'm not saying all the choices were horrible, and as other noted, seeing this does point out in some cases what not to get... I just think money could have been put to better use in the mid and low-end builds.
Score
0
July 3, 2008 6:50:45 PM

another thing. If I or we, have to spell it out to Toms people that they used obsolete and sub par components, then they should not be in this business. That IDIOT who brought up newegg. LOL if you read all the reviews there, the people at Tom's would have known that motherboard sucks. But what did they do? They got a free one, and they did 0 research on it, and they just used it. Which is a clear indication they are just making a paycheck, and don't care at all.

How freaking obvious is it? THey DONT CARE. And they don't have the courage to defend themselves because all the points I make here are right on the money.

LAAkuma
Score
-4
July 3, 2008 7:20:41 PM

laakumaanother thing. If I or we, have to spell it out to Toms people that they used obsolete and sub par components, then they should not be in this business.


Components look fine to me... Other than changing out the videocards to 4850's (which werent available when we spec'd), it's pretty solid. We had no way of knowing the E7200 wouldn't play nice with the MSI board, but our tests add to everyone's knowledge. The P7N is a solid board.

laakumaThat IDIOT who brought up newegg. LOL if you read all the reviews there, the people at Tom's would have known that motherboard sucks.


I hope you're kidding about basing a consumer choice on a newegg review.

laakumaTHey DONT CARE. And they don't have the courage to defend themselves because all the points I make here are right on the money.LAAkuma


Um... you do realize it's Crashman and myself that wrote the articles. Don't you?

I think we've been defending ourselves quite diligently, Jeff...
Score
1
July 3, 2008 7:30:59 PM

subliferI do admit that multi-card has improved...

...but for the bargain PC where you look for bang for buck, that $150-200 would have been much better spent elsewhere..


I'm going to call you on this one. Where could we have spent it better for a superior gaming result?

subliferI know the q6600 is a good buy, but its better if you get the g0... when you got the cpu (or pulled it from stock) and realized it wasn't the g0, why didn't you get a different one?


Because we're doing real-world testing, not cherry picking every component so we have a result you can only expect to get when everything is perfect. In the real-world, everything is NOT perfect. I think the +1 GHz overclock showed what can be expected from the Q6600 in the worst case scenario, and the results were pretty damn good even though we didn't break any records. I'd rather show people worst case scanario than a best-case scenario they can only reach if they're extremely lucky.

subliferMy biggest cpu disappointment was the e7200 though. As I mentioned above, the money not spent on the 2nd card would have been great to get a better processor.


I see your point, I just disagree. We had no way of knowing the E7200 wouldn't play nice with the MSI board; if there wasn't an unforeseeable glitch, the E7200s are known to overclock very high, just as high as more expensive processors. So from a overclocking standpoint I think we're better off with a cheaper CPU that overclocks well paired with dual videocards, rather than a stronger CPU that should overclock in the same range with a single videocard.


subliferI'm not saying all the choices were horrible, and as other noted, seeing this does point out in some cases what not to get... I just think money could have been put to better use in the mid and low-end builds.


I appreciate that, and I don't think you're opinions are without merit; I just disagree with some of them. But I do appreciate your opinion and especially the honorable way you raise your concerns, rather than trash-talking like some whiney buffoon. This is the kind of exchange of ideas that help everyone. :) 
Score
1
a b K Overclocking
July 3, 2008 7:33:14 PM

laakumaanother thing. If I or we, have to spell it out to Toms people that they used obsolete and sub par components, then they should not be in this business.


Like I said, if you'd simply admit that the ONLY MAJOR ISSUE with the components was that the article were published a few weeks late, you'd then have to admit that anything else you said doesn't matter.

laakumaThat IDIOT who brought up newegg. LOL if you read all the reviews there, the people at Tom's would have known that motherboard sucks.


Go read the reviews at Newegg. The only 750i board that competes with it on price is even worse, with poor overclocking for all processors (not just the E7200) and a very high failure rate.

laakumaBut what did they do? They got a free one, and they did 0 research on it, and they just used it.


Actually they got two, and both worked perfectly well with every modern processor they could find in the lab EXCEPT the E7200. I don't see you complaining that they used the same board in the $1500 system.

laakumaall the points I make here are right on the money.LAAkuma


Like I said, if you'd simply admit that the ONLY MAJOR ISSUE with the components was that the article were published a few weeks late, you'd then have to admit that anything else you said doesn't matter.
Score
2
July 3, 2008 7:52:30 PM

you wrote it? LOL

The 4850 came out half way through your cycle. You could have used it. Also, the P7N is a solid board? Yea, that's obvious! lol If you don't like what I am saying, do not make the same mistakes again, which I am sure you will not.

Please, next time, do a little research before you build the systems. The 2k system I could also pick apart and destroy as it was not even close to what you could have done for 2k. It was a half baked attempt. And so is the 4k system. Every system is not even close to what you could have done for the money performance wise. You guys are supposed to be leaders in this industry, and everything you used was just vanilla standard.

And the article was called "Sub $2000 system" Not Sub $1400 average joe system. Q6600? For real? That thing sucks! I can assure you, people paying that kind of money for a system are almost entirely gamers. Why choose a piece of crap CPU that can't overclock well for gaming, and then leave $650 left over? At LEAST pick a Wolfdale CPU such as the 3.0 GHZ one, which is actually faster than any Q6600 in any game, and CHEAPER!

Your motherboard pick was abysmal, once again, the water cooled solution was good, and the HDD was good, but the ram was garbage, you should have at least used Crucial 1066 Balistix for a 2k budget system.

And your video card choice for an under 2k system was 2 GTS? LOL Thats funny.

Without a shadow of a doubt, for under 2k you could have either 3 9800 GTX's in a system and still have money left over. Let me clue you in, even 2 9800 GTX's would obliterate your 2 GTS video cards. Shoot, 1 9800 GX2 is a worthy competitor and its 1 card.

2k system was total fail. 1k system was ridiculous fail.

4k system. Main rule in spending top dollars. Its got to beat the last build marathon build, and beat it handily. It totally failed on that front. And why use the quad processors when your catering to gamers? Wolfdale dual core 9.5x multiplier and it would have done past 4.5 GHZ and be faster than that for games by a hair, for 1/4 the money.

Then there is the whole water system. 3/8 inch fittings? Thats low end. Try 1/2 inch at LEAST for $3900 bucks, at least. And there are better water systems out there than that, that system is a mid range water setup. This is $4000 people want the best. And thats not it.

So the deal is, you ask manufacturers for items, and they give it to you free to do these builds. I think I get that. So why not ask for some high end stuff? The HDD? Samsung? For real? How about some high end raptors at least for a 4k system.

The goal of the 4k system is not "how can I just waste money for no performance gain, for the sake of just getting a 4k system"

The goal, and I am shocked I have to tell you, is what is the most performance I can get out of a 4k system, without compromise.

For gaming you could have done better. For applications, what you did, besides the HDD's is pretty high end.

Crashman is an idiot. That is apparent from his comments. The dude can't take any criticism and won;t admit he is wrong anywhere. He thinks he is above everyone.

Let me tell you one thing. The customer is always right, and you got a lot of customers on your site who are just laughing at you for such a failed attempt.

I bought a sub 1k build from Mwave last week. It was like $996 dollars. I put it together. I linked my 6 year old son to overclockers club. Told him to read this, print it out and "attempt" to overclock his system all on his own, to start training him about computers.

After 4 hours, he got it to 3.6 GHZ using the most basic of methods. And crashman, in all his godlyness can;t get that crap past 3.1?

And he is depending it as a quality component?

Crashman, if your boss had any real skills, you would be freaking FIRED.

So be happy you still have a job, you are worthless. There is no excuse.

You failed. Get another motherboard you clown. How hard is it.

Want my 6 year old boy to come over and show you how to make it faster? Its a joke.

LAAkuma
Score
-4
July 3, 2008 8:14:23 PM

I guess all I can say is that we've done what we think is reasonable and we've explained it about as simply as we could.

While we appreciate constructive feedback from our readers, we don't really care about your personal opinion, Jeff. You seem to be nonconstructive and, frankly, more than a bit of a jerk.

I guess when it comes right down to it, you're just some guy who doesn't like what we wrote, having a snit and getting upset.

And I'm OK with that. :D 
Score
1
a b K Overclocking
July 3, 2008 8:50:59 PM

laakumaCrashman, if your boss had any real skills, you would be freaking FIRED.So be happy you still have a job, you are worthless. There is no excuse.You failed. Get another motherboard


And that's why you're not my boss, you don't have a clue. Heck, I didn't even build that system. In fact, I didn't build either one of the P7N SLI Platinum systems. But, I did pick the best $150 750i motherboard. Unfortunately, you're not smart enough to figure that out. But being stupid certainly hasn't made you meak, you think the more obnoxiously you repeat yourself, the more "right" you are.

The only problem I have with you is that you're standing in the way of a productive discussion. In other words, you're not just wasting my time, you're also hurting the other readers. Readers that would ask important questions like how they could improve these systems, now that newer parts are available. Readers who need further clarification about the superior reasons why the former parts were chosen.

But I have a solution for you: Go watch some television. If you get premium cable, you can watch a movie called "Idiocracy". Spoiler warning: For that movie scenario, you represent the majority.
Score
1
July 3, 2008 9:02:22 PM

And this is why I own my own corporation, and you work for probably $16 a hour. Because you know business, and I have no clue right?

When you get to executive level, you will understand my side of it. At your current level, you have no idea.

You get the point, so did all the people reading what I wrote. And believe it or accept it or not. Because I have railed you so harshly, you will NOT make the same mistake again.

So you can thank me for affecting your future actions, so you don't get fired.

Maybe you will get a raise for not messing up next time, $18 an hour would be nice for you I am sure.

I will leave it at that, do better next time. This time was a joke. At your level, I am not surprised its such a failure, you need college educated people with sophisticated degrees to figure out marketing and market research. You have no idea what your "market" wants to see, which is obvious.

Go read up on anandtech, learn a few things, then come back and do better.

And yes, I live in the LA area local to you. Too bad I can't be your boss, my harsh words have disqualified me from that. But if I ran the Culver City operation, you can be assured, every single thing my employees do at Tom's would be WORLD CLASS, and people all over the world would use my builds as the benchmark for their purchases.

Yours in the benchmark for what NOT to buy. LOL you still don't get that. your a moron.

I would again, suggest to your boss, whoever the hell that is, that they fire you right away. I would fire you for coming on here and insulting your customers. No matter how bad I insult you, you should not say anything negative back, you should just learn from it and move on. I would fire you for that too. You make Tom look like an idiot who hires babies.

LAAkuma
Score
-2
July 3, 2008 9:09:04 PM

cleeveI'm going to call you on this one. Where could we have spent it better for a superior gaming result?


Seeing as how hind-sight is 20/20 I'm going to say getting an E8200 and an Abit IP35 pro for better overclocks but I'm not sure it would beat SLI'd cards unless you got a 9800GTX with a non-stock cooler and put a serious overclock on it. [course I'd pick an HD4870 now though :) ]

Been fun battin this around with you cleeve. [some people get a little too stirred up it seems... grin and bear it, right?]
Score
3
July 3, 2008 9:11:08 PM

Lol. Are you talking about importbuilders.com? Wow, very impressive, high roller! You make it sound like you own the next Dell, not some mail order business out of your garage.

You must be a very important man, especially since you obviously commissioned the design of your website to a toddler... :D 
Score
0
July 3, 2008 9:13:41 PM

subliferSeeing as how hind-sight is 20/20 I'm going to say getting an E8200 and an Abit IP35 pro for better overclocks but I'm not sure it would beat SLI'd cards unless you got a 9800GTX with a non-stock cooler and put a serious overclock on it. [course I'd pick an HD4870 now though ]Been fun battin this around with you cleeve. [some people get a little too stirred up it seems... grin and bear it, right?]


Heheh, you know it dude.

I tell you what - the next SBM we're probably going to try an E8500 for the midrange build, I might test the E7200 on the same platform to see how high they both overclock.
Score
1
a b K Overclocking
July 3, 2008 9:14:13 PM

laakumaBecause I have railed you so harshly, you will NOT make the same mistake again.


The mistake of missing a production deadline? Or the mistake of winding up in the hospital, which lead to the missed production deadline? Believe me, I'm not getting any help here. You really need to define your understanding of the mistake.

Or, are you refering to the mistake of not stabing the parts suppliers in the back by tossing out the systems once it became clear that the deadline wasn't possible to reach?

You see, we know these were good systems when they were picked out in May. We know for example that we couldn't get a better SLI motherboard for $150, unless we wanted to pick out older parts that would require a BIOS update simply to "see" a 45nm based processor. And what kind of recommendation would that be "You should buy this older motherboard and an old processor, so you can update BIOS, as well as the new one".

So far you haven't made a suggestion for a better $150 SLI motherboard, which isn't surprising since you can't. Of course, that would also require you to use prices that were current at the end of May.

You keep pretending there was some way to fix things, which there wasn't. Comitments were made, so there was no good solution. The only choice left was to publish late, which we knew would draw out winey losers like yourself.
Score
2
July 3, 2008 9:17:02 PM

Crashman: Laakuma - our forum resident business/PC expert corporate president - is some schmuck who peddles auto parts in his garage.

I think by engaging him you might be assigning him more credit than he deserves. :D 
Score
2
July 3, 2008 9:23:06 PM

lol thats not me man. But whatever
Score
-2
July 3, 2008 9:27:09 PM

Wow, not much of a response for our high-rolling know-it-all who seems to have so much to say!

If you're not Jeff Schaefer, why haven't you corrected me about calling you Jeff the last 10 posts...?

Set me straight Mr. Big shot corporate guy! Where's your multi-million dollar website? :D 
Score
2
July 3, 2008 9:39:46 PM

oh I see what you did, there are a lot of people called that on the internet. No big deal, turning it around to say I am Scott Jenkins doesn't change what happened here. And quite frankly, I didn't know who you were calling Jeff, I didn't even pay attention to that. Seemed strange to me.
Score
-4
July 3, 2008 9:42:59 PM

I can't help but notice you still haven't said what company you own...

Are you going to flaunt your fantastic monetary success and then keep your fabulously successful company to yourself?

Or maybe you're just some Troll caught in a lie. ;) 
Score
1
      • 1 / 2
      • 2
      • Newest
!