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Waiting for DirectX 10?!?!?!

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August 21, 2006 4:29:32 PM

Hi guyz

I'm currently building my pc and I'm not sure what to do with the graphics card. I have decided to buy an average card and wait until directx10 comes out. Is that a good idea?

What is a good average card? And how good are they?

I was thinking GeForce 7600 GT 256MB PCI-Express or Radeon X1800 GTO 256MB PCI Express


Thanks in advance

More about : waiting directx

August 21, 2006 5:00:26 PM

It's a tough question but I would buy an average card and enjoy it now.
Vista and dx10 after it will be released at least an year from now considering delays..
a b U Graphics card
August 21, 2006 5:04:39 PM

Your Idea is sound and would be one of the options I would recommend to most people, but you do want the best performance for now so you want at least a GF7600GT/X1800GTO

Now, depends on where you live, but my preference for recommendation in the US would be either the GF7600GT if it's your max budet, or the X1800XT if you can fit it into you budget (usually only a few $$ more, but worth it).

The X1800 would likely be the best candidate to get you into future titles, and will outperform the GF7600GT significantly, however if your budget is the GF7600GT or X1800GTO, then check some benchies and find which performas better in the games you like, Oblivion or similar then the GTO, Quake4 or similar then the GT.
Related resources
a b U Graphics card
August 21, 2006 5:08:15 PM

Quote:
Vista and dx10 after it will be released at least an year from now considering delays..


According to M$, Vista/Wishsta is now on schedule for it's Jan release.

DX10.1 is suposed to arrive shortly thereafter (which isn't surprising because it's not the core of DX10 that is causing a delay but adding extra features like physics and a few other tweaks that is making DX10.1 the release candidate, and delaying it [no rush IMO 'til the games come, and beta DX10 will be demoed long before the release IMO]).
August 21, 2006 5:12:18 PM

Oh cool then. I was sure it'd be an year min. We shall see
August 21, 2006 5:43:24 PM

Quote:
Now, depends on where you live, but my preference for recommendation in the US would be either the GF7600GT if it's your max budet, or the X1800XT if you can fit it into you budget (usually only a few $$ more, but worth it).


I live in australia and i checked the prices the X1800XT 256MB goes for 270 US dollar. GeForce 7600 GT 256MB PCI-Express for 280us and the Radeon X1800 GTO 256MB PCI Express for 210us.

so what do you suggest lets say I'm gonna buy a DX10 card in feb which one should I take now?
August 21, 2006 6:09:10 PM

Quote:
Now, depends on where you live, but my preference for recommendation in the US would be either the GF7600GT if it's your max budet, or the X1800XT if you can fit it into you budget (usually only a few $$ more, but worth it).


I live in australia and i checked the prices the X1800XT 256MB goes for 270 US dollar. GeForce 7600 GT 256MB PCI-Express for 280us and the Radeon X1800 GTO 256MB PCI Express for 210us.

so what do you suggest lets say I'm gonna buy a DX10 card in feb which one should I take now?

x1800xt FTW

much better card then the other 2
August 21, 2006 6:26:28 PM

Quote:
Vista and dx10 after it will be released at least an year from now considering delays..


According to M$, Vista/Wishsta is now on schedule for it's Jan release.

DX10.1 is suposed to arrive shortly thereafter (which isn't surprising because it's not the core of DX10 that is causing a delay but adding extra features like physics and a few other tweaks that is making DX10.1 the release candidate, and delaying it [no rush IMO 'til the games come, and beta DX10 will be demoed long before the release IMO]).

Don't be naive. Don't expect ANY DX10 games before 2008.
a b U Graphics card
August 21, 2006 6:27:34 PM

I agree with Sojrner, no surprise there especially considering my early post, but the GF7600GT should NEVER be more expensive than the XT, and the GTO is sufficiently weak that I'd recommend the XT is a better value. The card that's equal to the XT is the GF7900GT, not the GF7600GT, and even then I'd say the XT would be the best to take you into that new future card of yours just because of some of the future looking features like better dynamic branch handling, which can seem occasional glimmers of sweetness even now.
August 21, 2006 6:50:11 PM

Quote:
Vista and dx10 after it will be released at least an year from now considering delays..


According to M$, Vista/Wishsta is now on schedule for it's Jan release.

DX10.1 is suposed to arrive shortly thereafter (which isn't surprising because it's not the core of DX10 that is causing a delay but adding extra features like physics and a few other tweaks that is making DX10.1 the release candidate, and delaying it [no rush IMO 'til the games come, and beta DX10 will be demoed long before the release IMO]).

Don't be naive. Don't expect ANY DX10 games before 2008.

wow man, you really need to read up on this kinda stuff before you post on it. Games like Crysis and others are going to be dx10 games. They will run fine on dx9 just like dx9 games run fine on dx8. We should see vista/dx10 the begining of next year, and games that support dx10 may even hit this cristmas. This is all speculation, as release dates are nebulous things. However, I would be remis if I did not say that a statement like "nothing is gonna be here for more than a year" is fairly uninformed. Based on knowledge of the industry and market, and knowing that it will not alienate any non-dx10 hardware there is really no reason that things would be pushed back 'til 2008... Vista has alot of $ behind it, and dx10 is the darling within it. Games will be coming out next year that support dx10. m$ will make sure of that.

This is not to say to wait for dx10 at all, just clearing up false/negative info.

and calling GrapeApe naive is like saying Ralph Baer was a bit childish in w/ his inventions. the Ape has been around the block (digitally speaking) a time or two. There is a depth of knowledge there that can be a great benefit to many, including you.
August 21, 2006 7:01:13 PM

Quote:
I live in australia and i checked the prices the X1800XT 256MB goes for 270 US dollar. GeForce 7600 GT 256MB PCI-Express for 280us and the Radeon X1800 GTO 256MB PCI Express for 210us.


To the best of my knowledge, an x1800xt 256 should go for around $200 US, $270 US might get you an x1900xt 256 though.
August 21, 2006 7:03:57 PM

australia man, prices are different from country to country.
a b U Graphics card
August 21, 2006 7:19:18 PM

Quote:

Don't be naive.


Give me a break, talk about being naive! Anyone who listens to your statements would be naive to think you knew anything about the industry. :roll:

Quote:
Don't expect ANY DX10 games before 2008.


Sure whatever, no point in discussing it with you, you don't know enough about the benifits and what constitutes DX10 features to have a rational discussion about it.

As Sojrner pointed out, Crysis is due 30/03/2007 and will also use many DX10-only features, as will Halo2PC which is slated to coincide with DX10's release. Sure they'll run on older generation cards, but their development will focus on DX10 with DX9 fallbacks (although requiring 3 separate paths for DX10, DX9.0L on Vista ,and DX9.0C on XP ), and many features will be DX10 only, and unlike FartCry, and what you say about these, it won't be tacked on support, they are ground-up DX10 games, which doesn't mean they will maximize their use of the new API, because it is still new. But your statement is either ignorant or deliberately obtuse. Either way people should be warned to ignore you, in case they don't know better that what you say is BS!

Seriously, do more research before spreading your garbage.
a b U Graphics card
August 21, 2006 7:22:26 PM

Quote:
australia man, prices are different from country to country.


Yeah it's sad seeing Euro prices let alone Canadian and Aussie (heck I thought it was AUS $ he posted, but just noticed it was US, dang!).
August 21, 2006 7:27:10 PM

Well, maybe by the time i have recorded TWELVE THOUSAND POSTS ON A COMPUTER HARDWARE FORUM my expertise will approach your level, oh wise and learned one.

No one really has any idea when DX10 games are coming out. Your guess is as good (bad) as mine. It's not like looking into a crystal ball. I'm just trying to be realistic and not give people false hopes.

I would appreciate if you refrained from the personal attacks and indictments against my credibility, otherwise I will be forced to contact a moderator. I highly doubt that you have read all my posts, and I would not even consider making such a gross generalization about you until I have examined every one of your 12000+ postings.

Remember the golden rule.
August 21, 2006 7:27:57 PM

You're kidding right? :roll:
August 21, 2006 7:29:43 PM

As far as credibility goes, you're your own worst enemy.
August 21, 2006 7:30:07 PM

someone took my stapler... I'm gonna set the building on fire... and there were these two squirrels, and they were married...
August 21, 2006 7:33:49 PM

Quote:
someone took my stapler... I'm gonna set the building on fire... and there were these two squirrels, and they were married...


Let the anvils ring!
August 21, 2006 7:34:01 PM

Quote:
As far as credibility goes, you're your own worst enemy.
He'll never ever make it to 12000 posts. I predict he'll be banned by the weekend.
August 21, 2006 7:36:50 PM

I could put strychnine in your guacamole.
August 21, 2006 7:37:23 PM

Quote:
As far as credibility goes, you're your own worst enemy.
He'll never ever make it to 12000 posts. I predict he'll be banned by the weekend.

If I ever come within 1/10th that number, I'll remind you to shoot me.
August 21, 2006 7:38:11 PM

Quote:
I could put strychnine in your guacamole.


Practice all your vowel sounds by saying "AEIOU".
August 21, 2006 7:38:50 PM

8)
August 21, 2006 7:40:14 PM

Riiiiiiiight :roll:
August 21, 2006 7:41:17 PM

that's the last straw...
August 21, 2006 7:42:51 PM

Towely for one, its not about the number of post one has. Especially in this case, the GreatGrapeApe, he has been registered for 3 years. I also can make a clear judgement and say that he doest sit on these forums all day long. So attacking his post count is a lame measure to take, especially as new as you are. Making you're comments is enough of a personal attack to anyone.
August 21, 2006 7:43:21 PM

Quote:
Riiiiiiiight :roll:


Hellooooo Nurse!
August 21, 2006 7:44:31 PM

Quote:
Making you're comments is enough of a personal attack to anyone.


Making you are comments?
August 21, 2006 7:46:11 PM

Quote:
that's the last straw...


I'll be the judge of that.
August 21, 2006 7:47:06 PM

We got what he meant. This isn't a spelling contest. You should stop while you're ahead. This at least the 2nd thread you've made an a** of yourself on today.
August 21, 2006 7:47:56 PM

Quote:
Making you're comments is enough of a personal attack to anyone.


Making you are comments?

wow man, just wow

August 21, 2006 7:51:09 PM

Wow, i made a grammar mistake forgive me. The point was to show towely that he is merely wrong with his statements. Then pointing out TheGreatGrapeApe and calling him naive.

Another sad thing, is that towely will push the post count with the said Ape, yet this guy also is gathering most of his post in one thread and double posting. Most of the post he has made in this thread alone are pointless and add to the immaturity he has already shown us.
August 21, 2006 7:55:45 PM

Quote:
Wow, i made a grammar mistake forgive me. The point was to show towely that he is merely wrong with his statements. Then pointing out TheGreatGrapeApe and calling him naive.

Another said thing, is that towely will push the post count with the said Ape, yet this guy also is gathering most of his post in one thread and double posting. Most of the post he has made in this thread alone are pointless and add to the immaturity he has already shown us.


Woa there trigger, easy boy! my reply was to towely, not you. You respond to me upset when I am simply ripping on towely b/c of his jumping on you for essentially nothing. Notice the "in reply to:" spot on each post header? many forums do not have this, but it enables clarity on who you are responding to. Clear it up for ya? Hope so, otherwise I gotta say wtf?
August 21, 2006 7:57:25 PM

Don't you guys have anything better to do than make fun of me?

By indulging me in this destructive, negative behavior, you only serve to encourage me. If nobody responded, I would have no ammo and thus be forced to relent. Yet, you keep provoking me even though you know the outcome.

It's pretty basic psychology.
August 21, 2006 7:58:01 PM

Yeah I understand sojrner, I meant to hit the reply on his post. I meant nothing to you. 8) :wink:
August 21, 2006 7:59:06 PM

8)
August 21, 2006 8:06:52 PM

Please see the last 2 sentences of my last post. Tomorrow's another day.
August 21, 2006 8:14:21 PM

Quote:
Don't you guys have anything better to do than make fun of me?

By indulging me in this destructive, negative behavior, you only serve to encourage me. If nobody responded, I would have no ammo and thus be forced to relent. Yet, you keep provoking me even though you know the outcome.

It's pretty basic psychology.
Yes, you getting banned in record time.
August 21, 2006 8:14:47 PM

When DX10 games ARE out before 2008, you'll bugger off and annoy people on a different forum, right?
Cheers
Synergy6
August 21, 2006 8:15:36 PM

yes.
a b U Graphics card
August 21, 2006 8:25:39 PM

Quote:
Well, maybe by the time i have recorded TWELVE THOUSAND POSTS ON A COMPUTER HARDWARE FORUM my expertise will approach your level, oh wise and learned one.


Perhaps. The fact of the matter is you post as if you DO KNOW, and that you are learned about these things, yet you post things that are obviously false or guesses to those of us who know better. In the CPU DX10 thread you basically bludgeon people with that opinion, and it's based on ignorance of the facts IMO. In the future temper your obvious enthusiasm with "I think" , "I doubt" , "In my opion", "It seems", etc.

Quote:
No one really has any idea when DX10 games are coming out. Your guess is as good (bad) as mine. It's not like looking into a crystal ball.


No crystal balls here (or else like I say I'd be looking for a good D&R nut cup ) Crysis has a fixed target due date, not a 'guess', sure I'll be skeptical of it until the game's gone gold due to past experiences with HL2 and the like, but right now it's March 30, 2007. That's a solid date, not like Stalker which many of us have been hearing about and waiting for since the beginning of the R9700/FX5800 era.

Quote:
I'm just trying to be realistic and not give people false hopes.


You're not being realistic, and no one is giving false hope. I didn't say anyone shoudl WAIT for DX10, in fact I''m against explicitly waiting for DX10 itself, but for some people the NextGen cards (regardless of DX10 each generation tends to best the previous one with performance and features) are worth waiting for, like if you already have an X1900XTX or GF7900GX2, then moving to an X1950XTX makes little sense when so close to the next gen cards. However someone moving from a GF6800GT or X800XL to a GF7900GTX or X1900XTX or X1950XTX would have more reason to move, but should also be advised that there are new cards (often simply called DX10 cards as if the DX10 was the most important part over the next few months) coming out so maybe get a GF7900GT or X1900XT for now instead and consider putting the extra coin aside and then selling your card in the future and getting a next gen card when the price is right and the need is there. That's always been my position, and I don't think that's giving anyone false hope.

Quote:
I would appreciate if you refrained from the personal attacks and indictments against my credibility, otherwise I will be forced to contact a moderator.


Personal attacks? No less so than your calling me naive and giving people false hope (attack against my motives/sincerity). Go ahead and contact a moderator, I'm sure they'll see my posts are far more restrained and metered in reply to the statements you yourself made. I'm not the one who started out by calling people "naive". :roll:

And I'm not attacking your credability, your statements are doing that, I'm simply pointing that out to you and tell you to research before posting garbage, in an attempt to pre-empt future acts by yourself to make yourself look even worse.

Quote:
I highly doubt that you have read all my posts, and I would not even consider making such a gross generalization about you until I have examined every one of your 12000+ postings.


I haven't read ALL your posts, but the ones I've read match this position, especially with regards to graphic features. Case in point that I've already referenced;
http://forumz.tomshardware.com/hardware/modules.php?nam...

You're far too hyper and cocksure to survive in the enthusiast forums without getting better informed. Like I said, either temper your statements or get better information, otherwise you're going to be butting heads with alot of people, not just me.
August 21, 2006 8:39:18 PM

Why do people take personal attacks on the internet so seriously??
August 21, 2006 8:40:31 PM

To get back ON topic for a moment, whether games are or are not available anytime soon is immaterial.

Buying bleeding edge hardware is like buying jewelry or a yacht. If you have to ask how much, you can't afford it.

Ok, Ok, it's not really that cut and dried, but if you have to save up to get the next bleeding edge card, when it arrives, you are more likely to be dissapointed because you paid a premium that was harder to come by, and what did you get for it?

Right now, the 1800xt and 1900xt 256 are at excellent prices compared to the ultra uber mine is bigger than yours cards, and you will enjoy them immensley. In the meantime, as your fortune rises again and the cost of DX10's fall, you will find a point when you can re-invest in a new DX10 and convert your current (new) card to physics processing.

======================================

Forgive me for misleading your earlier, I thought US dollars meant the same US dollars I pay with only shipping costs being higher. (And since the ATI's are(were?) Canadian, I guessed import fees would be a wash).
August 21, 2006 8:44:32 PM

Now, as to the great ape debate, 12000 posts doesn't really say much about his knowledge, only that he has too much time on his hands.

That his commentary and content are well thought out is a better measure of his value to this forum.

Now, can we all just get along?
a b U Graphics card
August 21, 2006 8:46:23 PM

Quote:
someone took my stapler... I'm gonna set the building on fire... and there were these two squirrels, and they were married...


LOL!

but then... they switched from the Swingline to the Boston stapler.... but I kept my Swingline stapler because it didn't bind up as much.... and I kept the staples for the Swingline stapler and it's not okay because if they take my stapler then I'll set the building on fire...

http://www.thinkgeek.com/homeoffice/gear/61b7/
http://www.thinkgeek.com/homeoffice/gear/61b7/action/




F'in eh man! F - in - Eh! 8)
August 21, 2006 8:51:03 PM

Quote:
wow man, you really need to read up on this kinda stuff before you post on it. Games like Crysis and others are going to be dx10 games. They will run fine on dx9 just like dx9 games run fine on dx8. We should see vista/dx10 the begining of next year, and games that support dx10 may even hit this cristmas. This is all speculation, as release dates are nebulous things. However, I would be remis if I did not say that a statement like "nothing is gonna be here for more than a year" is fairly uninformed. Based on knowledge of the industry and market, and knowing that it will not alienate any non-dx10 hardware there is really no reason that things would be pushed back 'til 2008... Vista has alot of $ behind it, and dx10 is the darling within it. Games will be coming out next year that support dx10. m$ will make sure of that.

This is not to say to wait for dx10 at all, just clearing up false/negative info.

From the information I've see sojrner is total correct. Crysis, next years game of the year, will need DX10 to look its best. Releases of the major GPU makers places Intel first which should release by early next month. Nvidia second with a release of their G80 by late September to October. ATI is set to release their R600 80nm by November and their 65nm around December.

AMD may help push ATI's release up by joint efferts in manufacturing capacity.

The DX10 release has little to do with the releases of the DX10 GPU's as they will give much higher performance than any DX9 GPU in DX9 programs. The DX10 GPU's are backwards compatable and will play any current game, as sojrner point out, and should do so at a higher frame rate.
http://news.softpedia.com/news/Nvidia-ATI-Launch-G80-an...
August 21, 2006 9:08:05 PM

Quote:
F'in eh man! F - in - Eh! 8)


don't come back wearin' a dress... lol
a b U Graphics card
August 21, 2006 9:24:03 PM

In these conjugal visits, you can have sex with women, Yes?


August 21, 2006 9:36:39 PM

Conjugal visits? Not that I know of. You know, minimum security prison is no picnic. I have a client in there right now. He says the trick is: kick someone's a$$ the first day, or become someone's b!tch. Why do you ask, anyway?


8O
!