Secondary DNS: Depends on Primary?

Dave

Distinguished
Jun 25, 2003
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Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win2000.dns (More info?)

Hi all,

My primary DNS server failed the other day and, to my surprise, our
secondary DNS server stopped serving DNS queries soon after. Apparently, it
was not storing local copies of the DNS records? Does this mean I should
select "File" storage instead of "Active Directory and Registry?" Any other
recommendations for secondaries I should know about before our primary fails
again?

Thank you!!!

Dave
 
G

Guest

Guest
Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win2000.dns (More info?)

In news:10869559-9432-4184-8C2D-2AF5C0F64133@microsoft.com,
Dave <Dave@discussions.microsoft.com> posted this:
> Hi all,
>
> My primary DNS server failed the other day and, to my surprise, our
> secondary DNS server stopped serving DNS queries soon after.
> Apparently, it was not storing local copies of the DNS records? Does
> this mean I should select "File" storage instead of "Active Directory
> and Registry?" Any other recommendations for secondaries I should
> know about before our primary fails again?

You need to clarify this because there are only primary and secondary zones,
not primary and secondary DNS servers. One DNS server should not depend on
another DNS server unless it is forwarding to it and you probably shouldn't
be doing that.
If the secondary zone failed shortly after the primary, what is the expire
time on the zone?
The default expire time on MS DNS is one day, which in my oppinion, is too
short.





--?
Best regards,
Kevin D4 Dad Goodknecht Sr. [MVP]
Hope This Helps
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Dave

Distinguished
Jun 25, 2003
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Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win2000.dns (More info?)

Okay, please allow me to try this again:

We have two DNS servers: ns1.mydomain.com and ns2.mydomain.com. The zones
on ns1 are of type "Primary." The zones on ns2 are of type "Secondary."
When NS1 failed (harddrive fried), NS2 soon quit serving DNS requests. It's
been awhile, but if I recall correctly, it didn't fail right away. It may
have lasted a day or two or until it was rebooted. When I inspected ns2, the
zone files were all empty, giving an error saying something about not being
able to load the zone files. This led me to believe that the DNS server was
not configured properly; that it was relying solely on ns1 for zone
information rather than storing any local copies.

Was I incorrect in presuming that ns2 is a "secondary" DNS server and should
therefore utilize zones of type "Secondary?" IOW, should ns2 also have zones
of type "Primary?"

Thank you very much for your help.

Dave

"Kevin D. Goodknecht Sr. [MVP]" wrote:

> In news:10869559-9432-4184-8C2D-2AF5C0F64133@microsoft.com,
> Dave <Dave@discussions.microsoft.com> posted this:
> > Hi all,
> >
> > My primary DNS server failed the other day and, to my surprise, our
> > secondary DNS server stopped serving DNS queries soon after.
> > Apparently, it was not storing local copies of the DNS records? Does
> > this mean I should select "File" storage instead of "Active Directory
> > and Registry?" Any other recommendations for secondaries I should
> > know about before our primary fails again?
>
> You need to clarify this because there are only primary and secondary zones,
> not primary and secondary DNS servers. One DNS server should not depend on
> another DNS server unless it is forwarding to it and you probably shouldn't
> be doing that.
> If the secondary zone failed shortly after the primary, what is the expire
> time on the zone?
> The default expire time on MS DNS is one day, which in my oppinion, is too
> short.
>
>
>
>
>
> --Â?
> Best regards,
> Kevin D4 Dad Goodknecht Sr. [MVP]
> Hope This Helps
> ===================================
> When responding to posts, please "Reply to Group"
> via your newsreader so that others may learn and
> benefit from your issue, to respond directly to
> me remove the nospam. from my email address.
> ===================================
> http://www.lonestaramerica.com/
> ===================================
> Use Outlook Express?... Get OE_Quotefix:
> It will strip signature out and more
> http://home.in.tum.de/~jain/software/oe-quotefix/
> ===================================
> Keep a back up of your OE settings and folders
> with OEBackup:
> http://www.oehelp.com/OEBackup/Default.aspx
> ===================================
>
>
>
 
G

Guest

Guest
Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win2000.dns (More info?)

> My primary DNS server failed the other day and, to my surprise, our
> secondary DNS server stopped serving DNS queries soon after. Apparently,
it
> was not storing local copies of the DNS records? Does this mean I should
> select "File" storage instead of "Active Directory and Registry?"

The above offers inconsistent descriptions.

AD Integrated DNS servers are NOT "secondaries" but a special
form of a multi-Mastered Primary -- most of us don't use the word
primary for them although the newer document for Win2003 does
call them a Primary that stores records in AD.

In any case if you have two AD Integrated DNS servers for a zone,
neither is a secondary (for that zone.)

However, since AD is dependent on DNS for replication, if you
had failed to setup DNS correct first (before moving the zone into
AD on the second server) then the failure to replicate AD would
of course fail also to replicate DNS.

> Any other
> recommendations for secondaries I should know about before our primary
fails
> again?

Make sure that all AD Integrated DNS servers are fully replicate
both before you change additional ones to AD integrated and thereafter.

DNS must work for AD before it will work for AD Integrated DNS...

1) Dynamic for the zone supporting AD
2) All internal DNS clients NIC\IP properties must specify SOLELY
that internal, dynamic DNS server (set.)
3) DCs and even DNS servers are DNS clients too -- see #2
4) If you have more than one Domain, every DNS server must
be able to resolve ALL domains (either directly or indirectly)

netdiag /fix

....or maybe:

dcdiag /fix

(Win2003 can do this from Support tools):
nltest /dsregdns /server:DC-ServerNameGoesHere
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/q260371/

Ensure that DNS zones/domains are fully replicated to all DNS
servers for that (internal) zone/domain.

Also useful may be running DCDiag on each DC, sending the
output to a text file, and searching for FAIL, ERROR, WARN.

Single Label domain zone names are a problem Google:
[ "SINGLE LABEL" domain names DNS 2000 | 2003 microsoft: ]



--
Herb Martin, MCSE, MVP
Accelerated MCSE
http://www.LearnQuick.Com
[phone number on web site]

"Dave" <Dave@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:10869559-9432-4184-8C2D-2AF5C0F64133@microsoft.com...
> Hi all,
>
>
> Thank you!!!
>
> Dave
 

Dave

Distinguished
Jun 25, 2003
2,727
0
20,780
Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win2000.dns (More info?)

Thank you, Herb.

To clarify, these are not AD-integrated zones (or, at least, have nothing to
do with our AD network). In fact, these are our public-facing DNS servers in
a split-brain configuration. Our other, internal DNS servers are indeed
AD-integrated.

Does this mean that I should set "Load zone data on startup" to "Registry"
or "File?"

Dave

"Herb Martin" wrote:

> > My primary DNS server failed the other day and, to my surprise, our
> > secondary DNS server stopped serving DNS queries soon after. Apparently,
> it
> > was not storing local copies of the DNS records? Does this mean I should
> > select "File" storage instead of "Active Directory and Registry?"
>
> The above offers inconsistent descriptions.
>
> AD Integrated DNS servers are NOT "secondaries" but a special
> form of a multi-Mastered Primary -- most of us don't use the word
> primary for them although the newer document for Win2003 does
> call them a Primary that stores records in AD.
>
> In any case if you have two AD Integrated DNS servers for a zone,
> neither is a secondary (for that zone.)
>
> However, since AD is dependent on DNS for replication, if you
> had failed to setup DNS correct first (before moving the zone into
> AD on the second server) then the failure to replicate AD would
> of course fail also to replicate DNS.
>
> > Any other
> > recommendations for secondaries I should know about before our primary
> fails
> > again?
>
> Make sure that all AD Integrated DNS servers are fully replicate
> both before you change additional ones to AD integrated and thereafter.
>
> DNS must work for AD before it will work for AD Integrated DNS...
>
> 1) Dynamic for the zone supporting AD
> 2) All internal DNS clients NIC\IP properties must specify SOLELY
> that internal, dynamic DNS server (set.)
> 3) DCs and even DNS servers are DNS clients too -- see #2
> 4) If you have more than one Domain, every DNS server must
> be able to resolve ALL domains (either directly or indirectly)
>
> netdiag /fix
>
> ....or maybe:
>
> dcdiag /fix
>
> (Win2003 can do this from Support tools):
> nltest /dsregdns /server:DC-ServerNameGoesHere
> http://support.microsoft.com/kb/q260371/
>
> Ensure that DNS zones/domains are fully replicated to all DNS
> servers for that (internal) zone/domain.
>
> Also useful may be running DCDiag on each DC, sending the
> output to a text file, and searching for FAIL, ERROR, WARN.
>
> Single Label domain zone names are a problem Google:
> [ "SINGLE LABEL" domain names DNS 2000 | 2003 microsoft: ]
>
>
>
> --
> Herb Martin, MCSE, MVP
> Accelerated MCSE
> http://www.LearnQuick.Com
> [phone number on web site]
>
> "Dave" <Dave@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> news:10869559-9432-4184-8C2D-2AF5C0F64133@microsoft.com...
> > Hi all,
> >
> >
> > Thank you!!!
> >
> > Dave
>
>
>
 
G

Guest

Guest
Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win2000.dns (More info?)

Dave wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> My primary DNS server failed the other day and, to my surprise, our
> secondary DNS server stopped serving DNS queries soon after.
> Apparently, it was not storing local copies of the DNS records? Does
> this mean I should select "File" storage instead of "Active Directory
> and Registry?" Any other recommendations for secondaries I should
> know about before our primary fails again?
>
> Thank you!!!
>
> Dave

Curious, how was it determined the server failed? At this point it would
help with some extra info. Can you describe the syptoms, were there errors
regarding resolution, and what Event log errors do you see? Are you also
indicating the zone disappeared from DNS?

I would usually leave those settings default. I haven't needed to change
that in any of my clients' systems.

--
Regards,
Ace

Please direct all replies ONLY to the Microsoft public newsgroups
so all can benefit.

This posting is provided "AS-IS" with no warranties or guarantees
and confers no rights.

Ace Fekay, MCSE 2003 & 2000, MCSA 2003 & 2000, MCSE+I, MCT, MVP
Microsoft Windows MVP - Windows Server - Directory Services

Paramount: What's up with taking Enterprise off the air??
Infinite Diversities in Infinite Combinations.
=================================
 
G

Guest

Guest
Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win2000.dns (More info?)

In news:D465ADD9-98B2-42D9-B7E6-6BE4894744EB@microsoft.com,
Dave <Dave@discussions.microsoft.com> posted this:
> Okay, please allow me to try this again:
>
> We have two DNS servers: ns1.mydomain.com and ns2.mydomain.com. The
> zones on ns1 are of type "Primary." The zones on ns2 are of type
> "Secondary." When NS1 failed (harddrive fried), NS2 soon quit serving
> DNS requests. It's been awhile, but if I recall correctly, it didn't
> fail right away. It may have lasted a day or two or until it was
> rebooted. When I inspected ns2, the zone files were all empty,
> giving an error saying something about not being able to load the
> zone files. This led me to believe that the DNS server was not
> configured properly; that it was relying solely on ns1 for zone
> information rather than storing any local copies.
>
> Was I incorrect in presuming that ns2 is a "secondary" DNS server and
> should therefore utilize zones of type "Secondary?" IOW, should ns2
> also have zones of type "Primary?"

It sounds to me like the zone expired, as I said, by default secondary zone
will expire in one day if they cannot contact the primary.
Increase the expire time to between 2 and 4 weeks. That gives you time to
convert the secondary zones to primary if you can't get the primary back up
in time.



--?
Best regards,
Kevin D4 Dad Goodknecht Sr. [MVP]
Hope This Helps
===================================
When responding to posts, please "Reply to Group"
via your newsreader so that others may learn and
benefit from your issue, to respond directly to
me remove the nospam. from my email address.
===================================
http://www.lonestaramerica.com/
===================================
Use Outlook Express?... Get OE_Quotefix:
It will strip signature out and more
http://home.in.tum.de/~jain/software/oe-quotefix/
===================================
Keep a back up of your OE settings and folders
with OEBackup:
http://www.oehelp.com/OEBackup/Default.aspx
===================================
 
G

Guest

Guest
Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win2000.dns (More info?)

Kevin D. Goodknecht Sr. [MVP] wrote:
> It sounds to me like the zone expired, as I said, by default
> secondary zone will expire in one day if they cannot contact the
> primary.
> Increase the expire time to between 2 and 4 weeks. That gives you
> time to convert the secondary zones to primary if you can't get the
> primary back up in time.

Or if once realized the machine holding the Primary zone crashed, the
secondary zone could have been changed into a Primary zone.

If it was AD Integrated, this problem wouldn't have occured, assuming both
DNS servers were DCs. But then if that was the case, then there would be
problems associated with the crashed DC and it's reference in AD.

Ace
 
G

Guest

Guest
Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win2000.dns (More info?)

"Dave" <Dave@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:0E36CBE5-ABE7-47A5-A132-17C353AE5FB5@microsoft.com...
> Thank you, Herb.
>
> To clarify, these are not AD-integrated zones (or, at least, have nothing
to
> do with our AD network). In fact, these are our public-facing DNS servers
in
> a split-brain configuration. Our other, internal DNS servers are indeed
> AD-integrated.

The confusion was due to your writing 'file *instead of AD'
(implying you had store it in AD):

Since it is a secondary then it is very likely that your zone
EXPIRED (too long without transferring from master, e.g.,
the primary.)

> > > was not storing local copies of the DNS records? Does this mean I
should
> > > select "File" storage instead of "Active Directory and Registry?"

If you are at a secondary you should be able to force a transfer
from master (before you lost your primary) and see any changes
update.

> Does this mean that I should set "Load zone data on startup" to "Registry"
> or "File?"

Registry or file matters very little.


--
Herb Martin, MCSE, MVP
Accelerated MCSE
http://www.LearnQuick.Com
[phone number on web site]

>
> Dave
>
> "Herb Martin" wrote:
>
> > > My primary DNS server failed the other day and, to my surprise, our
> > > secondary DNS server stopped serving DNS queries soon after.
Apparently,
> > it
> > > was not storing local copies of the DNS records? Does this mean I
should
> > > select "File" storage instead of "Active Directory and Registry?"
> >
> > The above offers inconsistent descriptions.
> >
> > AD Integrated DNS servers are NOT "secondaries" but a special
> > form of a multi-Mastered Primary -- most of us don't use the word
> > primary for them although the newer document for Win2003 does
> > call them a Primary that stores records in AD.
> >
> > In any case if you have two AD Integrated DNS servers for a zone,
> > neither is a secondary (for that zone.)
> >
> > However, since AD is dependent on DNS for replication, if you
> > had failed to setup DNS correct first (before moving the zone into
> > AD on the second server) then the failure to replicate AD would
> > of course fail also to replicate DNS.
> >
> > > Any other
> > > recommendations for secondaries I should know about before our primary
> > fails
> > > again?
> >
> > Make sure that all AD Integrated DNS servers are fully replicate
> > both before you change additional ones to AD integrated and thereafter.
> >
> > DNS must work for AD before it will work for AD Integrated DNS...
> >
> > 1) Dynamic for the zone supporting AD
> > 2) All internal DNS clients NIC\IP properties must specify SOLELY
> > that internal, dynamic DNS server (set.)
> > 3) DCs and even DNS servers are DNS clients too -- see #2
> > 4) If you have more than one Domain, every DNS server must
> > be able to resolve ALL domains (either directly or
indirectly)
> >
> > netdiag /fix
> >
> > ....or maybe:
> >
> > dcdiag /fix
> >
> > (Win2003 can do this from Support tools):
> > nltest /dsregdns /server:DC-ServerNameGoesHere
> > http://support.microsoft.com/kb/q260371/
> >
> > Ensure that DNS zones/domains are fully replicated to all DNS
> > servers for that (internal) zone/domain.
> >
> > Also useful may be running DCDiag on each DC, sending the
> > output to a text file, and searching for FAIL, ERROR, WARN.
> >
> > Single Label domain zone names are a problem Google:
> > [ "SINGLE LABEL" domain names DNS 2000 | 2003 microsoft: ]
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Herb Martin, MCSE, MVP
> > Accelerated MCSE
> > http://www.LearnQuick.Com
> > [phone number on web site]
> >
> > "Dave" <Dave@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> > news:10869559-9432-4184-8C2D-2AF5C0F64133@microsoft.com...
> > > Hi all,
> > >
> > >
> > > Thank you!!!
> > >
> > > Dave
> >
> >
> >
 

Dave

Distinguished
Jun 25, 2003
2,727
0
20,780
Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win2000.dns (More info?)

Where do I find these "expiration" settings? I see nothing in the DNS or
zone settings with a default of 1 day.

Thank you!

Dave

> It sounds to me like the zone expired, as I said, by default secondary zone
> will expire in one day if they cannot contact the primary.
> Increase the expire time to between 2 and 4 weeks. That gives you time to
> convert the secondary zones to primary if you can't get the primary back up
> in time.
 
G

Guest

Guest
Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win2000.dns (More info?)

On Tue, 24 May 2005 11:26:04 -0700, "Dave"
<Dave@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote:

>My primary DNS server failed the other day and, to my surprise, our
>secondary DNS server stopped serving DNS queries soon after. Apparently, it
>was not storing local copies of the DNS records? Does this mean I should
>select "File" storage instead of "Active Directory and Registry?" Any other
>recommendations for secondaries I should know about before our primary fails
>again?

Is this a primary/secondary or an AD integrated domain? A second DNS
server shouldn't "stop serving" queries even if it doesn't happen to
have a current copy of the zone. But you may have had an issue with
stale records being scavanged and DNS not automatically registering
new ones.

File versus registry shouldn't affect this unless you have hosed the
registry hive or something equally odd.

Jeff
 

Todd

Distinguished
Mar 24, 2001
296
0
18,780
Archived from groups: microsoft.public.win2000.dns (More info?)

Properties of your primary zone, on the SOA tab.


"Dave" <Dave@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:BDD8616A-1449-4C52-975C-A1BAB925B04C@microsoft.com...
> Where do I find these "expiration" settings? I see nothing in the DNS or
> zone settings with a default of 1 day.
>
> Thank you!
>
> Dave
>
>> It sounds to me like the zone expired, as I said, by default secondary
>> zone
>> will expire in one day if they cannot contact the primary.
>> Increase the expire time to between 2 and 4 weeks. That gives you time to
>> convert the secondary zones to primary if you can't get the primary back
>> up
>> in time.
>