HP announces new head, new future

[Guest]

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

No, this is not about another major personel change at HP.

However, HP has announced they have successfully developed a new inkjet
head that is completely made of an integrated circuit or a "chip".

Current heads are made from laminates of materials and involve complex
processes using lasers to burn the nozzle holes. Each company uses some
process that is fairly costly to make the heads.

Although in the beginning the new HP head design will prove expensive,
it does allow for economy of scale, once they ramp up, since the actual
cost of materials and design make it cheap and easy to make in quantity.

HP hopes this invention will lead to a breakthrough for them into more
commerical markets, like photo labs, and even possibly allowing large
printing presses to be replaced by some type of inkjet technology.

The new heads will also allow for much faster output, and larger head
size with more nozzles.

Art

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

That's what Canon has been doing for quite some time now.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

It is the Canon lithography process.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

In article Arthur Entlich says...
> No, this is not about another major personel change at HP.
>
> However, HP has announced they have successfully developed a new inkjet
> head that is completely made of an integrated circuit or a "chip".
>
Sounds similar to the Canon process

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

HP has been using this process for years before. #45 cartridges are
maden with this process. Of course I am not a specialist to judge wich
process is "more" lithographic. I'm almost sure the #45 is the first
cartridge in the world maden with an almost totaly lithographic
process.
On the other hand, marketing reasons cause manufacturers te be the
best... the best inks, the best cartridges, etc, etc, etc.

Yianni

 

[zakezuke]

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

> Can you provide a good URL link on the current Canon head technology?
> I'd like to read more about it.

If you are actually interested in the subject here is the marketing
banter, it's *somewhat* informative. I got the info from one of those
marketing folks suspected to be employed by a 3rd party company to hang
out in retail stores and spam the blogs.

http://www.canon.com/technology/ij/01.html

I don't know much about the subject above and beyond the marketing
tripe. It seems to me that something that is basicly still a bubble
jet with minor improvments is severly limited in terms of the
tempurates that can be used vs using ceramics for example. Also multi
layered designs (can't think of the company off the top of my head at
the moment) can be bonded together via sonics rather than resins,
perhaps a company assoicated with brother? I can't remember.

The canon design from what i've observed, in all fairness, is rather
limited to a drop size determined by the size of the chamber... and the
size of the hole much in the same way that medical drop dosing operates
except the fact that exit port is at a right angle to inkflow, prior
art likely to be the atomizer or something similar.

It's been a while since I looked at HP so I don't know if their nozzles
can serve to produce variable sized drops or not.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

I don't know enough about the Canon design to comment fully. I was
under the impression that Canon's heads were made up of many
manufacturing components and layers, not just a basic IC design.

Art

colinco wrote:

> In article Arthur Entlich says...
>
>>No, this is not about another major personel change at HP.
>>
>>However, HP has announced they have successfully developed a new inkjet
>>head that is completely made of an integrated circuit or a "chip".
>>
>
> Sounds similar to the Canon process
>

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Can you provide a good URL link on the current Canon head technology?
I'd like to read more about it.

Art

tyranix95@hotmail.com wrote:

> That's what Canon has been doing for quite some time now.
>

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

I just did a Google search on Canon inkhead technology, and from what I
read there, it does appear to have similarities to HP's announcement. I
can't pass judgment without knowing more about each.

Canon has a very interesting 76 page color and well illustrated pdf
"book" on many of their printer and digital technologies which can be
downloaded at:

http://www.canon.com/technology/pdf/tech2005e.pdf

Inkjet technologies are covered on page 34.


Art

Michael Grey wrote:

> It is the Canon lithography process.
>
>

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Whatever it is HP announced, it is not supposed to be reflective of any
of the previous technology they used. This is supposed to be a new
technology and a major advancement. The news release I read wasn't all
that specific, but it does sound like this is a major step forward in
inkjet technology.

Art

in@mailbox.gr wrote:

> HP has been using this process for years before. #45 cartridges are
> maden with this process. Of course I am not a specialist to judge wich
> process is "more" lithographic. I'm almost sure the #45 is the first
> cartridge in the world maden with an almost totaly lithographic
> process.
> On the other hand, marketing reasons cause manufacturers te be the
> best... the best inks, the best cartridges, etc, etc, etc.
>
> Yianni
>

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Zakezuke, marvelous Canon web site on this technology, light, color, etc.

--
Dave C.

c9ar9dar9elli@9c4.n9et

Remove the five 9's (leave the 4) for email.


"zakezuke" <zakezuke_us@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1121591053.996873.241740@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>> Can you provide a good URL link on the current Canon head technology?
>> I'd like to read more about it.
>
> http://www.canon.com/technology/ij/01.html
>

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Arthur Entlich wrote:
> Whatever it is HP announced, it is not supposed to be reflective of any
> of the previous technology they used. This is supposed to be a new
> technology and a major advancement. The news release I read wasn't all
> that specific, but it does sound like this is a major step forward in
> inkjet technology.
>
> Art

I asked my son about the new PH tech and from what he said it sounds a
lot like sterolithography, they are growing the passages and nozzles,
no more "machining" of same. This is likely a new application of
process that has been used for yrs in micro motors and micro fluid
controls.

Mickey

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

In article <1121591053.996873.241740@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
zakezuke_us@yahoo.com (zakezuke) wrote:

> Also multi layered designs...can be bonded together via sonics rather
> than resins...

Resins seem to be both part of the assembly and used in the manufacturing
process to create voids, rather than as bonding agents. If 'Resin B' is
self-bonding, then it's a moot point!

> The canon design from what i've observed, in all fairness, is rather
> limited to a drop size determined by the size of the chamber.

The way the drops are applied does seem to do the job, though, or so I'm
reliably informed.

Jon.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

In article <cdoCe.260590$El.174061@pd7tw1no>, e-printerhelp@mvps.org
(Arthur Entlich) wrote:

> http://www.canon.com/technology/pdf/tech2005e.pdf
>
> Inkjet technologies are covered on page 34.

Hmm, not that forthcoming in some areas: "The resulting Pg ink displays
the characteristics of pigment ink while also featuring coloring
comparable with dye ink".

Jon.

 

[zakezuke]

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

> Resins seem to be both part of the assembly and used in the manufacturing
> process to create voids, rather than as bonding agents. If 'Resin B' is
> self-bonding, then it's a moot point!

I was refering to another alternative to resins, a company I seem to
think is associated with bother is going ceramics and sonic bonding.

> > The canon design from what i've observed, in all fairness, is rather
> > limited to a drop size determined by the size of the chamber.

> The way the drops are applied does seem to do the job, though, or so I'm
> reliably informed

It does do the job. I lack enough actual information to make a truelly
valued judgement, but as with all thermal designes you are very limited
in terms of the medium you can use esp when your temprature is limited
by the melting point of your base materials. Also this might explain
why some are none too hip to the ip6000 with it's 1pl and 5pl drops...
there is not really an option for 2pl drops which in some cases look
better depending on what you are doing.

I am curious what temps HP heads operate at... from my limited
understanding they are hotter. I don't know if they offer variable
drop sizes nor do I know anything about the nozzles. I sort of made a
choice to go canon due to the lower cost of consumables, and in part
because I felt burned buying the PSC 950.... the black yield was lower
than the 45a cart I was using for my hps in the past, and lower yields
were something I didn't expect on a $400 printer.

 

[BURT]

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

"Jon O'Brien" <Jon@NOonlySPAMbrowsingTHANX.com> wrote in message
news:memo.20050717134902.576A@blue.compulink.co.uk...
> In article <1121591053.996873.241740@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
> zakezuke_us@yahoo.com (zakezuke) wrote:
>
>> Also multi layered designs...can be bonded together via sonics rather
>> than resins...
>
> Resins seem to be both part of the assembly and used in the manufacturing
> process to create voids, rather than as bonding agents. If 'Resin B' is
> self-bonding, then it's a moot point!

I read a posting in the Nifty-stuff forum, a few months ago, that described
a canon print head that had one color blocked that could not be cleared by
any technique. Disassembly of the print head disclosed a small piece of a
bonding substance (resin filler?) that had broken loose and blocked the ink
flow. This may explain many Canon printhead failures that defy other
explanations.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

<in@mailbox.gr> wrote in message
news:1121561388.377415.212340@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> HP has been using this process for years before. #45 cartridges are
> maden with this process. Of course I am not a specialist to judge wich
> process is "more" lithographic. I'm almost sure the #45 is the first
> cartridge in the world maden with an almost totaly lithographic
> process.

Actually the nozzles on the #45 are laser ablated and part of the flexible
circuit that includes the electrical contacts.

regards,
Bob Headrick, not speaking for my employer HP

 

[zakezuke]

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

> And GM cars are best - just ask a GM car dealer! Oh, no - Ford cars are
> best - just ask a Ford dealer.

The funny thing is he has a point, even if he missed the point. Often
papers are designed to bond well with a particular style of ink. In
this way it's possible that brand x ink with brand x papers might
produce a slighty better result. However, this is not to say that
canon/hp/epson have a monopoly on this concept, printing has been
around for a long time. Brush pen and ink folks know all of this
better than any of us.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Burt wrote:

>"Jon O'Brien" <Jon@NOonlySPAMbrowsingTHANX.com> wrote in message
>news:memo.20050717134902.576A@blue.compulink.co.uk...
>
>
>>In article <1121591053.996873.241740@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
>>zakezuke_us@yahoo.com (zakezuke) wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>Also multi layered designs...can be bonded together via sonics rather
>>>than resins...
>>>
>>>
>>Resins seem to be both part of the assembly and used in the manufacturing
>>process to create voids, rather than as bonding agents. If 'Resin B' is
>>self-bonding, then it's a moot point!
>>
>>
>
>I read a posting in the Nifty-stuff forum, a few months ago, that described
>a canon print head that had one color blocked that could not be cleared by
>any technique.
>

Must have been with aftermarket ink.

>Disassembly of the print head disclosed a small piece of a
>bonding substance (resin filler?) that had broken loose and blocked the ink
>flow. This may explain many Canon printhead failures that defy other
>explanations.
>
>

aftermarket ink probably broke the bonding. ate away at the resins.

>
>
>

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

measekite wrote:

>
>
> Burt wrote:
>
>> "Jon O'Brien" <Jon@NOonlySPAMbrowsingTHANX.com> wrote in message
>> news:memo.20050717134902.576A@blue.compulink.co.uk...
>>
>>
>>> In article <1121591053.996873.241740@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
>>> zakezuke_us@yahoo.com (zakezuke) wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Also multi layered designs...can be bonded together via sonics rather
>>>> than resins...
>>>>
>>>
>>> Resins seem to be both part of the assembly and used in the
>>> manufacturing
>>> process to create voids, rather than as bonding agents. If 'Resin B' is
>>> self-bonding, then it's a moot point!
>>>
>>
>>
>> I read a posting in the Nifty-stuff forum, a few months ago, that
>> described a canon print head that had one color blocked that could not
>> be cleared by any technique.
>
>
> Must have been with aftermarket ink.
>
>> Disassembly of the print head disclosed a small piece of a bonding
>> substance (resin filler?) that had broken loose and blocked the ink
>> flow. This may explain many Canon printhead failures that defy other
>> explanations.
>>
>
> aftermarket ink probably broke the bonding. ate away at the resins.
>

LOL!

-Taliesyn

>>
>>
>>

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

In article <GcxCe.57$NU2.37@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com>,
sfbjgNOSPAM@pacbell.net (Burt) wrote:

> Disassembly of the print head disclosed a small piece of a bonding
> substance (resin filler?) that had broken loose and blocked the ink
> flow.

Considering the size of the print head. and the ink channels therein, I'd
be interested to know what sort of tools and microscope were used to
achieve this!

Jon.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Hello Art,

You are right, till now, Canon printheads were made of many layers. Just in
a previous thread someone sent the url
http://www.canon.com/technology/ij/01.html . I thought you said about HP
chip like printheads because of this thread.

--
Yianni
in@mailbox9.gr (remove number nine to reply)


--
"Arthur Entlich" <e-printerhelp@mvps.org> wrote in message
news:6WnCe.1969984$6l.823484@pd7tw2no...
>
> I don't know enough about the Canon design to comment fully. I was
> under the impression that Canon's heads were made up of many
> manufacturing components and layers, not just a basic IC design.
>
> Art

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

> Whatever it is HP announced, it is not supposed to be reflective of any
> of the previous technology they used. This is supposed to be a new
> technology and a major advancement.

That's why I surprised a bit. May HP improved the process. I searched a
little but found nothing about. Where do you read about the chip like
printhead manufacturing process of HP? Any link?

The chip like printhead manufacturing helps in two aspects: cost and
accuracy. If you unglue the whole printhead/circuit from a hp 45 cartridghe,
you will be surprised how easy is to make your own printhead/cartridge.


--

Yianni

--
"Arthur Entlich" <e-printerhelp@mvps.org> wrote in message
news:WsoCe.1968618$Xk.1765754@pd7tw3no...
>
> Whatever it is HP announced, it is not supposed to be reflective of any
> of the previous technology they used. This is supposed to be a new
> technology and a major advancement. The news release I read wasn't all
> that specific, but it does sound like this is a major step forward in
> inkjet technology.
>
> Art
>

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

"Yianni" <in@mailbox9.gr> wrote in message news:1121646114.726544@athnrd02...

> The chip like printhead manufacturing helps in two aspects: cost and
> accuracy. If you unglue the whole printhead/circuit from a hp 45 cartridghe,
> you will be surprised how easy is to make your own printhead/cartridge.

Accuracy probably, cost maybe . As for it being easy to make a cartridge -
it is not exactly a garage operation. While the underlying circuitry may be
similar to a simple NMOS or CMOS process there are several (or more)
non-standard layers, including the resistor material, the barrier layer that
provides the ink channels and the orifice material.

Regards,
Bob Headrick, not speaking for my employer HP

 

[BURT]

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

"Jon O'Brien" <Jon@NOonlySPAMbrowsingTHANX.com> wrote in message
news:memo.20050718024440.2036A@blue.compulink.co.uk...
> In article <GcxCe.57$NU2.37@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com>,
> sfbjgNOSPAM@pacbell.net (Burt) wrote:
>
>> Disassembly of the print head disclosed a small piece of a bonding
>> substance (resin filler?) that had broken loose and blocked the ink
>> flow.
>
> Considering the size of the print head. and the ink channels therein, I'd
> be interested to know what sort of tools and microscope were used to
> achieve this!
>
> Jon.

Jon - I went back and read the post - I inadvertantly misstated the author's
message. It was conjecture that it was a bit of cement that held certain
components together. The link is
http://www.nifty-stuff.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=241 . Interesting to see
a disassembled print head. I don't know if you can simply click the link or
if you have to sign in to the Nifty-stuff forum at
http://www.nifty-stuff.com/forum/ . Sign in and go through the threads.
The person who posted this info signs on as granddad35. I don't know what
his educational or professional background is, but he has a keen inquiring
mind and obviously has a fantastic array of scientific instruments at his
disposal. He recently posted magnified pictures of the dot pattern created
by an inkjet printer and compared them to a conventionally printed lab
photo. His magnifications were done with a microscope that projects a video
image which can he captured digitally. Some of what he evaluates and posts
is purely academic in nature, but many things have practical application as
well. He has developed and posted several custom profiles for combinations
of inks, papers, and specific printers. As I recall, he uses a Canon ip8500
and refills with Formulabs inks.