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Warning: DRM Engine built into new ATI HDTV tuner card

Last response: in Graphics & Displays
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August 23, 2006 5:32:12 PM

Listed in the specs for the new ATI TV Wonder 650 PCI HDTV tuner card is this:

Hardware DRM Engine
http://www.ati.com/products/theater650pro/specs.html

Why is this important you ask?

One the major advantages of having a TV tuner card is the ability to record DVB, transcode them, and watch them later. I myself do this. I'll often record a program, transcode it, and burn it/copy it and watch it later on my laptop while I'm traveling. Beyond that, the BIGGEST advantage to having a tv tuner card is the ability to simply RECORD programs.

If the FCC manages to get the new DRM broadcast flag instated, the ability to do things like record, tranfer, and transmit broadcasts would be in serious jeopardy.

Right now, the DRM broadcast flag continues to get defeated thanks to the EFF (Electronic Frontier Foundation). However, I fear that all we're doing here is delaying the inevitable.

What are everyone's thoughts on this?
August 23, 2006 6:23:52 PM

Quote:
Listed in the specs for the new ATI TV Wonder 650 PCI HDTV tuner card is this:


Slightly old news, but there's alot of us out there looking into it's defeat, but more info is needed. We'll have to see how hard it is to work around.

http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=33383


Quote:
One the major advantages of having a TV tuner card is the ability to record DVB, transcode them, and watch them later. I myself do this. I'll often record a program, transcode it, and burn it/copy it and watch it later on my laptop while I'm traveling.


Ditto although now I use my PSP not my laptop anymore.

Quote:

If the FCC manages to get the new DRM broadcast flag instated, the ability to do things like record, tranfer, and transmit broadcasts would be in serious jeopardy.

Right now, the DRM broadcast flag continues to get defeated thanks to the EFF (Electronic Frontier Foundation). However, I fear that all we're doing here is delaying the inevitable.


The DRM flags are already in the content they are simply being supressed, in Canada it depends on the provider you have whether or not you get zapped by them. On Bell ExpressVu and a few others (I don't want to mention in case this helps change that) the DRM flag is not sent, on SHAW however which is my other provider (of 3) they DO sned the flag, and as such I cannot use my new Toshiba DVD-HDD record to record directly from either of the converter boxes that have the movie channel (one of my other options doesn't provide HD. Bell wants to charge me $15, and Shaw gives HD for Free), I can record using my old Emerson DVD-R/RW because it doesn't read the DRM flag. The Toshiba records for 5-15 seconds and then a warning comes up, this content is protect, insert DVD-RAM disk, which is pointless as their DVD-RAM has proprietary encoding I haven't found a crack for to read with my LGs (although I haven't looked recently I should check when I get back from out East).

Quote:
What are everyone's thoughts on this?


Sucks, but I'm sure we'll find a work-around eventually if there's enough people interested (even just interested in hacking it not using it).
August 23, 2006 7:11:00 PM

Personally I think it should be criminal for them to be able to put limits that strict on files that you create for personal use. Obviously there's a good reason (for them) to do it, but in the same way as the music industry hasn't got a clue what to do about digital distribution the FCC/whoever really need to change their attitude to piracy - because there is ALWAYS a way to get content from one place to another, and unless this stamps out broadcast piracy for good (uh, wait, VCRs and DVD recorders) then their 'Hardware DRM' is only ever gonna get in the way of honest end users.

Dandruff by decapitation springs to mind.
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August 23, 2006 10:01:57 PM

i agrie with You, btw on the box of the tv wonder 650 it saiz:"high definition PVR for Your pc"if im corect PVR means personal video recorder does it not? so we will be able to record our favourite movies, serials and such, and below it there is :"wach, pouse, recored tv, fm, and hdtv on your pc with no monthly fee" so i gues so far so good, btw would it be posible for the "recorded" show or whatever to have some protection encoded into it that you could "record" it only on your hd, not on the cd/dvd, or that you can do it but only once? if yes maby that might be the isse with the Hardware DRM Engine being present on the board, btw the tv wonder 650 and 200 already came out on monday, so its available from ati, and soon will be this week or next from bestbuy.com, and compusa.com so hopefully we will find out soon :wink: , im planing on buing one right after i get my hold of a mobo to build a system, hopefully that will happen before next wednesday.
August 24, 2006 10:13:06 PM

I don't think recording content will be that big of a problem, there's too big a market for DVR's right now and they're pretty much accepted. It's transporting the content to a laptop or over a network that's the problem.

What kills me if this content is being freely offered over the air! If I had a choice I'd watch it on my HDTV. But I'm not always home and I would like to see the damned episodes on the airplane or in the airport. Not during the summer... or having the buy the whole season on DVD.
August 24, 2006 10:25:23 PM

Quote:
What kills me if this content is being freely offered over the air! If I had a choice I'd watch it on my HDTV. But I'm not always home and I would like to see the damned episodes on the airplane or in the airport. Not during the summer... or having the buy the whole season on DVD.


Precisely. All this is ever going to do is interfere with the people who are going to use it in an honest way. If you're going to be pirating video then you're going to be going out of your way to do it anyway, in which case this isn't really going to stop anybody - there'll just be another way to do it.
August 24, 2006 11:21:27 PM

I think its going to force honest people to "crack" yet another way to utilize what we are legally entitled to the RIAA has no law making powers but it sure seems that way, computers are a private ownership and I believe we can do whatever however we want to utilize it for our benefits, as long it doesnts affect the masses.
August 25, 2006 7:54:56 AM

Quote:
I have a feeling this DRM era is the uprise of mod chips (like in Xbox/PS) for devices that has built-in DRM.

From what I've seen it's very hard to crack from software side.


That might just work, though. While there are quite a few people who would like to use a product like this, it's only 'people like us' who would be willing to bother with a product like that. Most people will be happy with their MCE Dell computer, DRM and all.

I think you could be right about modchips though, I never thought of that.
August 26, 2006 2:40:15 AM

worring info here :cry:  http://reviews.cnet.com/4531-10921_7-6388131.html?tag=t...



"So this means we can all record HD cable content on our PCs, burn it to DVD, move it to portable devices, and so on, right? Of course not! While not letting the cat out of the bag completely, there will be a Windows DRM system implemented for "protecting cable operators' investments in high-value content in a digital environment." This could very possibly include tagging certain programs to prevent you even recording them in the first place or placing restrictions on how long you can keep a recording. "
August 26, 2006 3:17:44 AM

Yeah, all this DRM is making me an unhappy camper.

I am just waiting to see how much more Blu-Ray and HD-DVD can be mutilated by DRM.

You would think they would learn, all it does is piss joe consumer off. They seem to forget where they get their money from.......
August 30, 2006 11:36:44 PM

its already ou the tv wonder 650 and 200 are available in bestbuy, and compusa didnt check other stores yet, sweet :D  i will probably get one in a week or so (max 2), im still waiting for a place to buy my mobo(p5w dh deluxe)
August 31, 2006 12:51:18 PM

btw what will be the major difference betwean the tv tuner thats analog(the t wonder 200) and the analog/digital one(tv wonder650)?? excluding the visual quality difference in reception, but will the digital one alow me to wach more channels that the analog does not offer? will i be able to more precisely "fine tune" the quaity of certain channels(to reduce the ghosting, or "snow")?
thx



btw the tv wonder 200 is now also available on newegg
September 5, 2006 11:18:05 AM

THE TV TUNERS WERE RECALLED, a;; tv wonders 650 were recalled back, darn it, theDRM must have not worked on those boards, thats why they recalled them....2 bad i didnt have a chance to buy one(was going today)

got info on the DRM blocking here someone got this card and wrote :

"I picked one up on the 28th and have been using it nearly a week.

It doesn't run hot, it doesn't crash, the 'DRM' (flagging) is there as I can't burn various content in MCE, and overall it seems fine. "


another post:
"Apparently you do not own a recently made analog tuner. Broadcast flags are in those now. Try burning a recording of a made-for-tv hollywood movie with MCE 2005 and it will block you. Not really a big deal not to be able to burn. However, some movies have a time limit and they are deleted automatically. Again, not a big deal but in some instances you have less than 30 days to watch it. "

this will really suck
more info here:

http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=3969
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