GSM and AMPS/Analog?

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.cingular (More info?)

Now that Cingular is going GSM, does the network (and respective
phones) provide for AMPS/Analog fallback capability? In the event of
an emergency where/when digital coverage cannot be obtained, analog
fallback can be critical.

I believe, under TDMA, they had AMPS/Analog, but when that is
disabled, along with the ATTWS takeover, with ATTWS digital-only, how
will the new infrastructure look?
GSM-only, or GSM with Analog?

Thanks.

Scott
19 answers Last reply
More about amps analog
  1. Archived from groups: alt.cellular.cingular (More info?)

    On 8 Nov 2004 05:38:56 -0800, scott@ehrlichtronics.com (Scott Ehrlich)
    wrote:

    >Now that Cingular is going GSM, does the network (and respective
    >phones) provide for AMPS/Analog fallback capability? In the event of
    >an emergency where/when digital coverage cannot be obtained, analog
    >fallback can be critical.
    >
    >I believe, under TDMA, they had AMPS/Analog, but when that is
    >disabled, along with the ATTWS takeover, with ATTWS digital-only, how
    >will the new infrastructure look?
    >GSM-only, or GSM with Analog?

    They're not likely to dissassemble it all. They probably won't be
    adding to TDMA or AMPS but there will still be some there for some
    time. As far as GSM falling back on AMPS the only handsets that will
    do that are the GAIT handsets of which I believe there are very few
    models Nokia 6340i and Ericsson T62U.
    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
  2. Archived from groups: alt.cellular.cingular,alt.cellular.attws (More info?)

    "Scott Ehrlich" <scott@ehrlichtronics.com> wrote in message
    news:8c8a703f.0411080538.523e70d4@posting.google.com...
    > Now that Cingular is going GSM, does the network (and respective
    > phones) provide for AMPS/Analog fallback capability? In the event of
    > an emergency where/when digital coverage cannot be obtained, analog
    > fallback can be critical.
    >
    > I believe, under TDMA, they had AMPS/Analog, but when that is
    > disabled, along with the ATTWS takeover, with ATTWS digital-only, how
    > will the new infrastructure look?
    > GSM-only, or GSM with Analog?
    >
    > Thanks.
    >
    > Scott

    I've not heard of any plans for a Cingular GSM/Analog phone in the future.
    However, you can now get a GAIT phone (Nokia 6340i or SE T62u) activated on
    the new GSM National plans, with coverage on TDMA and/or Analog anywhere the
    old GAIT national plans used to cover. (I just did this myself through
    Cingular Customer Service) You can then use the GAIT phone when you need
    Analog/TDMA, and switch the GAIT SIM card into the much nicer GSM-only
    phones when you have a strong/steady GSM signal.

    I've heard that the GAIT SIM card is different from the GSM-only SIM card,
    but I've not been able to confirm. Anyone know if this is true?
  3. Archived from groups: alt.cellular.cingular (More info?)

    In article <8c8a703f.0411080538.523e70d4@posting.google.com>,
    scott@ehrlichtronics.com (Scott Ehrlich) wrote:

    > Now that Cingular is going GSM, does the network (and respective
    > phones) provide for AMPS/Analog fallback capability? In the event of
    > an emergency where/when digital coverage cannot be obtained, analog
    > fallback can be critical.
    >
    > I believe, under TDMA, they had AMPS/Analog, but when that is
    > disabled, along with the ATTWS takeover, with ATTWS digital-only, how
    > will the new infrastructure look?
    > GSM-only, or GSM with Analog?
    >
    > Thanks.
    >
    > Scott

    Both TDMA and analog are going away, although you can get a major
    argument started by predicting when.
  4. Archived from groups: alt.cellular.cingular (More info?)

    In article <8c8a703f.0411080538.523e70d4@posting.google.com>,
    scott@ehrlichtronics.com says...
    > Now that Cingular is going GSM, does the network (and respective
    > phones) provide for AMPS/Analog fallback capability? In the event of
    > an emergency where/when digital coverage cannot be obtained, analog
    > fallback can be critical.
    >
    > I believe, under TDMA, they had AMPS/Analog, but when that is
    > disabled, along with the ATTWS takeover, with ATTWS digital-only, how
    > will the new infrastructure look?
    > GSM-only, or GSM with Analog?
    >
    > Thanks.
    >
    > Scott
    >

    Network--yes, Reality--no. There are no GSM+AMPS phones made. There
    used to be one that took an AMPS "slice" behind the battery but believe
    that is gone too. Also, there are reports that Cingular will not
    activate an old AMPS-only phone on a new GSM-only plan--guess that's one
    way to make sure nobody is using AMPS by the 2007 sunset.

    RANT-MODE-ON! Cingular and ATTWS seem to think they're the only
    carriers involved and that when their conversion is done the country is
    done. The truth is that LOTS if not most of their TDMA/AMPS roaming
    partners HAVE NOT converted and may not even have started. A GSM-only
    phone is a paperweight in large areas of rural and small-town USA.

    And it was so unnecessary--all they had to do was continue offering the
    GAIT phones & plans a year or so longer. Maybe order some more GAIT
    models or at the very least order some GSM+AMPS phones.

    By the way, nobody has said that TDMA is going to be "disabled" all at
    once. Since it's not covered in the 2007 regulation keeping it running
    is optional. If the TDMA cards are taking up slots needed for GSM cards
    then some towers may loose it before others. Or is TDMA and GSM on the
    same card--anyone? If it's the same card then TDMA may stick around for
    many years.

    It would make sense for them to keep TDMA/AMPS at minimal levels for
    users of other TDMA/AMPS carriers to roam into the cities--until
    EVERYBODY is converted--but they haven't used any sense yet when it
    comes to the GSM conversion so why start now :-)
    --
    Jud
    Dallas TX USA
  5. Archived from groups: alt.cellular.cingular,alt.cellular.attws (More info?)

    > However, you can now get a GAIT phone (Nokia 6340i or SE T62u) activated
    > on the new GSM National plans, with coverage on TDMA and/or Analog
    > anywhere the old GAIT national plans used to cover.

    The SIM card for a multiband plan includes the TDMA setup information.
    Simply placing a normal GSM-only SIM into a multiband phone will only work
    in GSM mode. At least this is the case for my unlocked Cingular Nokia
    6340i.

    Anyway, yes, if it's possible to get the multiband SIM for use on the GSM
    nation plan, that does sound like a killer deal, especially if roaming on
    TDMA/analog
    is included. This did not used to be the case, at least in my area.

    -Dan

    --
    Eugene, Oregon -- Pacific Northwest
    http://cell.uoregon.edu
  6. Archived from groups: alt.cellular.cingular (More info?)

    Jud Hardcastle wrote:

    [....]

    > By the way, nobody has said that TDMA is going to be "disabled" all at
    > once. Since it's not covered in the 2007 regulation keeping it running
    > is optional. If the TDMA cards are taking up slots needed for GSM cards
    > then some towers may loose it before others. Or is TDMA and GSM on the
    > same card--anyone? If it's the same card then TDMA may stick around for
    > many years.
    >

    In Cingular's case, most TDMA/Analog networks being converted to GSM are
    accomplishing this by adding GSM radio frames. They turn off TDMA
    radios and turn on GSM radios and modify their FCC license filings
    accordingly. Oftentimes, the TDMA and GSM radio frames are two
    different brands, so card sharing is impossible. Cingular has already
    stripped their urban analog capacity to a bare-bones level, and
    thankfully GM's Onstar client service is finally headed for GSM (other
    package tracking systems are getting similar treatment).

    I've been told a lot of the rural analog providers (read: technophobes)
    depend on analog roamer fees as their primary revenue source, but with
    the aggressive GSM pressures from major providers (GSM-only phones),
    their revenue streams may dry up sooner than they think. Which means
    they'll fold, their analog networks will show up on eBay, someone will
    buy the lot, convert it to GSM, analog phones will be SOL, and GSM
    people will finally have rural coverage.

    IMO, I expect analog to outlive TDMA, but only because of the 2007
    statutory requirement.


    [....]


    --
    jer email reply - I am not a 'ten'
  7. Archived from groups: alt.cellular.cingular,alt.cellular.attws (More info?)

    In article <wbydnbZQaufBAhLcRVn-sQ@lighthouse.net>,
    scottmcconkey@hotmail.com says...
    > However, you can now get a GAIT phone (Nokia 6340i or SE T62u) activated on
    > the new GSM National plans, with coverage on TDMA and/or Analog anywhere the
    > old GAIT national plans used to cover. (I just did this myself through
    > Cingular Customer Service) You can then use the GAIT phone when you need
    > Analog/TDMA, and switch the GAIT SIM card into the much nicer GSM-only
    > phones when you have a strong/steady GSM signal.
    >

    Well that's something anyway. I knew several people had managed to get
    a GAIT phone activated on a normal GSM acct unofficially although the
    phone seems to behave a little differently roaming rules wise. Wonder
    if they're going to let you roam free (which would effectively be the
    same as the old GAIT plan) or will there be some extra roaming charges
    if you go off the GSM system? Anyway--at least an option if I ever want
    a GPRS/Edge phone.
    --
    Jud
    Dallas TX USA
  8. Archived from groups: alt.cellular.cingular,alt.cellular.attws (More info?)

    "Dan Albrich" <junkmail@shaney.uoregon.edui> wrote in message
    news:9-idndTRzvSUtw3cRVn-sQ@comcast.com...
    >> However, you can now get a GAIT phone (Nokia 6340i or SE T62u) activated
    >> on the new GSM National plans, with coverage on TDMA and/or Analog
    >> anywhere the old GAIT national plans used to cover.
    >
    > The SIM card for a multiband plan includes the TDMA setup information.
    > Simply placing a normal GSM-only SIM into a multiband phone will only work
    > in GSM mode. At least this is the case for my unlocked Cingular Nokia
    > 6340i.
    >
    > Anyway, yes, if it's possible to get the multiband SIM for use on the GSM
    > nation plan, that does sound like a killer deal, especially if roaming on
    > TDMA/analog
    > is included. This did not used to be the case, at least in my area.
    >
    > -Dan
    >
    > --
    > Eugene, Oregon -- Pacific Northwest
    > http://cell.uoregon.edu
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >

    Today I switched from my GAIT plan to the "limited time" Nations 1000
    w/rollover plan. The CSR assured me my GAIT phone would continue to operate
    as is has. I'll report any variance to the group after the change goes into
    effect in late November.
  9. Archived from groups: alt.cellular.cingular,alt.cellular.attws (More info?)

    > Today I switched from my GAIT plan to the "limited time" Nations 1000
    > w/rollover plan. The CSR assured me my GAIT phone would continue to
    > operate as is has. I'll report any variance to the group after the change
    > goes into effect in late November.

    Sounds like an excellent deal to me. Do let us know if anything
    comes up that's unexpected.

    Thanks Bob,

    -Dan

    --
    Eugene, Oregon -- Pacific Northwest
    http://cell.uoregon.edu
  10. Archived from groups: alt.cellular.cingular (More info?)

    On Mon, 08 Nov 2004 15:05:53 GMT, Jack Zwick <jzwick3@mindspring.com>
    wrote:

    >In article <8c8a703f.0411080538.523e70d4@posting.google.com>,
    > scott@ehrlichtronics.com (Scott Ehrlich) wrote:
    >
    >> Now that Cingular is going GSM, does the network (and respective
    >> phones) provide for AMPS/Analog fallback capability? In the event of
    >> an emergency where/when digital coverage cannot be obtained, analog
    >> fallback can be critical.
    >>
    >> I believe, under TDMA, they had AMPS/Analog, but when that is
    >> disabled, along with the ATTWS takeover, with ATTWS digital-only, how
    >> will the new infrastructure look?
    >> GSM-only, or GSM with Analog?
    >>
    >> Thanks.
    >>
    >> Scott
    >
    >Both TDMA and analog are going away, although you can get a major
    >argument started by predicting when.

    So isn't the dial telephone.

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
  11. Archived from groups: alt.cellular.cingular (More info?)

    On Mon, 08 Nov 2004 16:05:44 GMT, Jud Hardcastle
    <l5i5changethistodash5rbo@xemaps.removethis.com> wrote:

    >Network--yes, Reality--no. There are no GSM+AMPS phones made. There
    >used to be one that took an AMPS "slice" behind the battery but believe
    >that is gone too.

    True GAIT phones have GSM, TDMA and AMPS. There are at least two
    models that do this besides the module you are referring to for the
    old 51XX/61XX/71XX series Nokia phones.

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
  12. Archived from groups: alt.cellular.cingular (More info?)

    Joseph wrote:
    > On Mon, 08 Nov 2004 16:05:44 GMT, Jud Hardcastle
    > <l5i5changethistodash5rbo@xemaps.removethis.com> wrote:
    >
    >> Network--yes, Reality--no. There are no GSM+AMPS phones made. There
    >> used to be one that took an AMPS "slice" behind the battery but
    >> believe that is gone too.
    >
    > True GAIT phones have GSM, TDMA and AMPS. There are at least two
    > models that do this besides the module you are referring to for the
    > old 51XX/61XX/71XX series Nokia phones.

    The Nokia NRM-1 -- I have one that I've never used.

    John C.
  13. Archived from groups: alt.cellular.cingular (More info?)

    >They turn off TDMA
    >radios and turn on GSM radios and modify their FCC license filings
    >accordingly.

    There are no FCC filings necessary. They hold the lisences for the areas that
    they cover and do not have to provide anything more to the FCC.

    > Oftentimes, the TDMA and GSM radio frames are two
    >different brands, so card sharing is impossible.

    This is true however.


    --
    John S.
    e-mail responses to - john at kiana dot net
  14. Archived from groups: alt.cellular.cingular (More info?)

    In article <cmpish$1r8@library2.airnews.net>, gdunn@airmail.ten says...
    >
    > I've been told a lot of the rural analog providers (read: technophobes)
    > depend on analog roamer fees as their primary revenue source, but with
    > the aggressive GSM pressures from major providers (GSM-only phones),
    > their revenue streams may dry up sooner than they think. Which means
    > they'll fold, their analog networks will show up on eBay, someone will
    > buy the lot, convert it to GSM, analog phones will be SOL, and GSM
    > people will finally have rural coverage.
    >

    From "analog roamer" fees or just from roamer fees in general? Are
    there different roamer fees for analog versus digital? I haven't
    detected my GAIT phone on analog in rural areas for a very long time,
    not even 15-20 miles from a town. TDMA is pretty well saturated at
    least in Texas. The few times I loose TDMA the entire signal is gone
    due to a valley. If the rural carriers are getting a lot of revenue
    from "analog" roamers versus digital roamers then it's probably from
    Verizon users not Cingular.

    When/if the rural carriers drop AMPS at the 2007 sunset Verizon is going
    to loose their entire backup coverage. That's going to make a
    significant drop in their published coverage--there's almost no CDMA
    here once you leave the big cities. Are they going to offer CDMA/GSM
    phones to US customers so users can roam on GSM-only carriers?

    --
    Jud
    Dallas TX USA
  15. Archived from groups: alt.cellular.cingular (More info?)

    [POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]

    In <MPG.1bfd30e13ee41254989807@news.dallas.sbcglobal.net> on Thu, 11 Nov 2004
    14:21:22 GMT, Jud Hardcastle <l5i5changethistodash5rbo@xemaps.removethis.com>
    wrote:

    >When/if the rural carriers drop AMPS at the 2007 sunset Verizon is going
    >to loose their entire backup coverage. That's going to make a
    >significant drop in their published coverage--there's almost no CDMA
    >here once you leave the big cities. Are they going to offer CDMA/GSM
    >phones to US customers so users can roam on GSM-only carriers?

    That's an important point that most pundits seem to be missing.

    --
    Best regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES:
    John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular>
  16. Archived from groups: alt.cellular.cingular (More info?)

    On Thu, 11 Nov 2004 14:21:22 GMT, Jud Hardcastle
    <l5i5changethistodash5rbo@xemaps.removethis.com> said in
    alt.cellular.cingular:

    >When/if the rural carriers drop AMPS at the 2007 sunset Verizon is going
    >to loose their entire backup coverage. That's going to make a
    >significant drop in their published coverage

    They already have a significant drop from published coverage in the 22
    system (NY Metro). They're oversold again. It's so bad this time
    that I'm biting the bullet and paying them the $350 to terminate both
    of my lines.
  17. Archived from groups: alt.cellular.cingular (More info?)

    OnStar is heading to CDMA and Verizon, not GSM:
    http://www.vzwshop.com/onstar/

    "Jer" <gdunn@airmail.ten> wrote in message
    news:cmpish$1r8@library2.airnews.net...
    >
    > In Cingular's case, most TDMA/Analog networks being converted to GSM are
    > accomplishing this by adding GSM radio frames. They turn off TDMA radios
    > and turn on GSM radios and modify their FCC license filings accordingly.
    > Oftentimes, the TDMA and GSM radio frames are two different brands, so
    > card sharing is impossible. Cingular has already stripped their urban
    > analog capacity to a bare-bones level, and thankfully GM's Onstar client
    > service is finally headed for GSM (other package tracking systems are
    > getting similar treatment).
    >
  18. Archived from groups: alt.cellular.cingular (More info?)

    Randy wrote:

    > OnStar is heading to CDMA and Verizon, not GSM:
    > http://www.vzwshop.com/onstar/

    I apologise for my own confusion. What I heard was OnStar (among other
    users) was moving to digital, and I mistakingly confused that with
    GSM/GPRS, because that same conversation also included FedEx plans
    converting to GSM/GPRS. My bad.


    >
    > "Jer" <gdunn@airmail.ten> wrote in message
    > news:cmpish$1r8@library2.airnews.net...
    >
    >>In Cingular's case, most TDMA/Analog networks being converted to GSM are
    >>accomplishing this by adding GSM radio frames. They turn off TDMA radios
    >>and turn on GSM radios and modify their FCC license filings accordingly.
    >>Oftentimes, the TDMA and GSM radio frames are two different brands, so
    >>card sharing is impossible. Cingular has already stripped their urban
    >>analog capacity to a bare-bones level, and thankfully GM's Onstar client
    >>service is finally headed for GSM (other package tracking systems are
    >>getting similar treatment).
    >>


    --
    jer email reply - I am not a 'ten'
    I'm Jer and I approved this message.
  19. Archived from groups: alt.cellular.cingular (More info?)

    In article <-YmdneGC5_BuswvcRVn-iA@comcast.com>, "Randy" <@> says...
    > OnStar is heading to CDMA and Verizon, not GSM:
    > http://www.vzwshop.com/onstar/
    >
    >
    >
    Actually I don't see anything there that's talking about the future just
    about the current systems and combined billing.

    CDMA has even LESS digital coverage in rural and small town America than
    current GSM. At least with GSM most of the small carriers that cover
    rural and under 20k towns will EVENTUALLY convert from TDMA to GSM which
    will expand GSM coverage back to approximately 100% coverage where AMPS
    is now. That's not going to happen with CDMA. If Onstar goes to CDMA
    they're going to loose even more renewals than their abysmal record now.
    Stupid move but with an existing Verizon deal they may do just that.
    --
    Jud
    Dallas TX USA
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