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Need help from CPU experts !!

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August 27, 2006 4:33:01 PM

Hey everyone

I'm gonna do some Massive math calculations
and i mean MASSIVE
i'm dealing with very large equations and infinite functions
and accuracy is very important
it could take days (at least on the current Athlon XP i work on)

what is a good processor for minimizing the time ?
my budget is limited to maximum of 250 $ for the CPU
i'm building a new system
feel free to suggest other parts too

I'm using a software called BladeGen v4.1
it's pretty old and i don't think it's designed to take advantage of dual core or even multi threading

and please provide information and reasons don't just say GO CONROE, GO Opteron.... be specific

Thanks

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August 27, 2006 5:43:03 PM

Explain a bit more. Are you going to build an all new system or just upgrade. If your system is just meant for crunching numbers, then it could be much cheaper than what a gaming system would be. You could simply order a e6300 or maybe a e6600 conroe on a p5b mobo with 1-2gig of ram with a low-mid range graphics card. Then you really do not need an expensive power supply or cooling equipment.
August 27, 2006 5:48:01 PM

The fastes single core processor in your price range is the athlon 64 4000+ and I think you can get it for like 140$. Or you can get the fx 57 but that cost like 500$.
Related resources
August 27, 2006 5:48:42 PM

Quote:
I'm using a software called BladeGen v4.1
it's pretty old and i don't think it's designed to take advantage of dual core or even multi threading

why do you think i should get conroe ?
Quote:
Are you going to build an all new system or just upgrade.

Quote:
i'm building a new system


are you sure you read the post well ?
August 27, 2006 6:47:08 PM

Even though Conroe is dual core, it has some ofthe fastest single thread performance. Conroe is leading by a large margin on SuperPi benchmarks (single thread, CPU benchmark). Also with a dual core you could continue to use your computer while the simulations are running, or you could run 2 simulations simultaneously.
August 27, 2006 6:57:34 PM

Hi,

just get Conroe :) 

Here are a few reasons why:
simply speak it's the most powerfull CPU right now.
The reason for this is the new architecture of Core2Duo, more work per clock cycle, a big second level cache, speculative memory loads, advanced branch prediction and more architectural advancements.

This might be interesting to you:
Core2Duo Mathematica Bench

The E6600 would be my choice, but it's slightly over you budget.
You could save 100 dollars on other components and invest that to get a E6600.
Components that don't influence peformance much are:
-RAM - bandwith is not that important - DDR533 is sufficient
-motherboard (an older chipset like G945 with integrated graphics to save even more) doesn't affect performance negativly

Christian
August 27, 2006 6:58:13 PM

Quote:
Hey everyone

I'm gonna do some Massive math calculations
and i mean MASSIVE
i'm dealing with very large equations and infinite functions
and accuracy is very important
it could take days (at least on the current Athlon XP i work on)

what is a good processor for minimizing the time ?
my budget is limited to maximum of 250 $ for the CPU
i'm building a new system
feel free to suggest other parts too

I'm using a software called BladeGen v4.1
it's pretty old and i don't think it's designed to take advantage of dual core or even multi threading

and please provide information and reasons don't just say GO CONROE, GO Opteron.... be specific

Thanks


Here is the link to Toms CPU charts that tell you the Sisoft Sandra 2007 Arithmetic ALU and Floating Points Calculation.
http://www23.tomshardware.com/cpu.html?modelx=33&model1...

If your budget is limit to $250 for the CPU, then go with Core 2 Duo 6400 (retail price at $243+shipping on Newegg.com)

Give more information about your total budget. If you need to do a lot of calculation, then of course you need a lot of memory. 2 GB is usually adequate for games, but I dont know about your software, then go with more memory (4gb) if you want to. Here is a good one, and because you don't plan to overclock so don't waste your money on DDR2 800

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E1682...

I think that's about everything you need, other stuffs don't really fit to your need, i.e. GFX card, so you can buy whatever fit to your budget
August 27, 2006 7:20:30 PM

unfortunately newegg doesn't ship internationally
i live in Egypt by the way

these charts are really confusing to me as i don't know for sure what instructions the CPU is gonna be dealing with !!!

i've been looking in 5 big forums for a person to tell me and no one replied
i need to know what instructions are most important in big calculations and which processor is the best from that point of view.

thanks for your reply
August 27, 2006 7:26:56 PM

Hi,

There is only integer & floating point arithmetic.
For both types Core2Duo is the fastest.

Quote:
big calculations

that's another reason for the E6600 because of it's 4MB second level cache where many intermediate results can be stored in a big calculation making it even faster.

Christian
August 27, 2006 7:37:39 PM

With a Max budget of 250, and living in Egypt, that is going to be tough.

What online shops can you get products from?

Edit:

I don't think you could build a new system with $250, but if you list your current system, perhaps you could get better performance with some simple upgrades.
August 27, 2006 7:43:34 PM

Conroe is a good choice for a new rig.
Read this

You can start with E6300; is about 193$

For the mobo look here

If you don't overclock an Intel mobo is a good one and is cheaper than Asus or Gigabyte with P965 chipset.And if you don't play games,take an Intel mobo with G965 chipset .It has video on board.
Corsair VS 2GBKIT667D2 is cheap and full compatible with it.Look here
August 27, 2006 8:18:02 PM

:? . o O (I'm having a hard time understanding, why people here are not seeing he only has $250 as max budget)

The only real execption I see is that other MB by ASRock, which is a $56 MB, and perhaps the E6300, $193.00. Still those prices maybe hard to get in Egypt.

But, to get an idea.. if this guy already has:

DDR-400
AGP video card
Case/PSU
Monitor
HD/CD-DVD

He could maybe get the 775Dual-VSTA MB $56 and E6300 $193 for a total of $249, without shipping added.

I still think its going to be very tough to get those prices when your living over there.
August 27, 2006 8:47:45 PM

ummmm... the 250 is not the budget for the total system, it's for just the processor.

now that that's out of the way, I too, would suggest the Core 2 Duo E6400, even though I despise Conroe from the depths of my heart because of all the raging fanboys. It will do your infinite calculations very well, and run cooly. If you can't afford to go the however much over budget it is to get that, if you include shipping and tax and all that, then get the E6300, as it is also very fast, and very good at arithmetic and all that fancy shtuff. For ram, I think you'd need at least 1 gig, probably 2, of ddr2-533. Motherboard, just get one with integrated graphics, it's not like you're going to play games on it or anything.
August 27, 2006 8:59:10 PM

:oops:  . o O (oooph.. my bad)
August 27, 2006 9:03:39 PM

Since the rest of the world calls an entire computer a CPU, I believe we wants an entire computer for $250. If thats the case, here is an option to run BladeGen.

PC CHIPS P25G VIA P4M800/Soket 478/FSB800/A&V&L Motherboard MB-P25G $38.63

Kingston KHX3200A/512 DDR400 512MB Hyper X Original Memory D400HX512K $58.71

Intel Pentium 4 3.0GHz 800MHz 478pin 512KB CPU, OEM P3.0_800 $84.98

Hitachi 80GB HDS728080PLA380 SATA2 U300 7200rpm 8MB Hard Drive HD-0A30356 $46.35

Apex/Supercase PC-132 300W ATX Mid Tower Case (Beige/Gray) CA-PC132 $24.72

Global Win Copper CPU Fan For P4 478pin up to 3.2G+/800MHz FAN-VA476 $10.81

Sub Total $264.20

Shipping to Egypt UPS Worldwide Express $275.35

Grand Total $539.55

This is from ewiz.com They will ship anywhere but it's expensive.

Now this system is without an operating system but I assume you either have one or you can download a Linux distro. I went with an older socket 478 pentium because BladeGen doesn't use any new instruction sets, it's just straight up floating point operations.
August 27, 2006 11:03:07 PM

Quote:
Hey everyone

I'm gonna do some Massive math calculations
and i mean MASSIVE
i'm dealing with very large equations and infinite functions
and accuracy is very important
it could take days (at least on the current Athlon XP i work on)

what is a good processor for minimizing the time ?
my budget is limited to maximum of 250 $ for the CPU
i'm building a new system
feel free to suggest other parts too

I'm using a software called BladeGen v4.1
it's pretty old and i don't think it's designed to take advantage of dual core or even multi threading

and please provide information and reasons don't just say GO CONROE, GO Opteron.... be specific

Thanks



$250 limits your options severely. I'd say go with an Opteron and OC it. The 165 is around that price and you can get a 939 for awhile so you can keep your DDR.

A DFI or ABit mobo will be cheap and sturdy for OC or not. I'd definitely spend as much as I could on RAM since swapping will kill your perf faster than CPU speed (or lack thereof).

I'd also recommend a WD Raptor. You can get a cheap 250GB for under $100 and then get a 36GB Rapor for your app drive.

It sounds like video isnt an issue so you can get away with a GeForce 7300 or ATi x1300.

That should keep you around $1000 total.
August 27, 2006 11:49:23 PM

The OP said:
> my budget is limited to maximum of 250 $ for the CPU
> i'm building a new system

The OP mentioned:
>accuracy is very important
In other words, trading stability for speed is not an option.

Taking OCing out of the equation, you, BM, are stupid. The Opteron 165 gets raped by the E6300, and GANG raped by the E6400.
For the same amount of money (CPU, mobo), the OP could get:
* An E6400 (250), which runs circles around the E6400.
* The ASRock 775Dual-VSTA, which supports Conroe and DDR, saving money by not having to rebuy DDR RAM.

Quote:
I'd also recommend a WD Raptor. You can get a cheap 250GB for under $100 and then get a 36GB Rapor for your app drive.

The OP never mentions needing a fast disk subsystem for his number crunching. It's a waste of money.

Quote:

It sounds like video isnt an issue so you can get away with a GeForce 7300 or ATi x1300.

Or, a 2D PCI video card that might be lying around.
August 28, 2006 6:50:25 AM

no guys the 250 $ is for the CPU only not the entire system :) 
i made it pretty clear in the first post
August 28, 2006 7:28:28 AM

Thanks
i think i'm gonna get the E6300 coz of shiping :( 
and i'll get 2 gigs of RAM
now is it a wise decision to get the E6300 with DDR ?
or should i get a mobo that supports DDR2 ?
and in either case suggest a good RAM for me
and whether to get 4*512 or 2*1024 and why

thanks for all the help guys
August 28, 2006 8:05:11 AM

this is all DDR2

and do these guys ship internationally ?
August 28, 2006 8:41:45 AM

Here are my toughts.

Can you run 2 instances of the program for dual core processors so you can divide the work?
Yes CONROE is great but is also expensive.

If I were you then if the program cant use 2 cores and you really dont do anything else with the comp I would buy a Celeron D or a sempron. A celeron at 2.13GHz you can have for a bargain and can overclock to 3,5-4GHz range.
There are the new 65nm Celerons you could try even those they have 512kb cache.
Its a really good question how much does cache size help that program. Probably in the range of 10%.

If you are afraid of ocing then better learn about it.
August 28, 2006 8:55:24 AM

there is no way i'm getting a celeron or sempron
either athlon64 or core 2 duo
August 28, 2006 9:00:33 AM

Quote:


DDR2 is the current generation, DDR will be phasing out quite rapidly now the AM2 is online. You would need to check their shipping policy for international shipping.

I will look for a DDR MB for you shortly, did not have time to search for one close at hand.


thanks i really appreciate your help
August 28, 2006 9:04:42 AM

that's ok take your time
it's 12:00 pm here :) 
c ya tomorrow then with some links
!