CPU Fan Upgrade

[shinji3c]

Before I overclock my e6600, I want to upgrade my Scythe Mine Cooler.
Asus Suite gives me 33C idle but SpeedFan and Core Temp give me 40C idle. I don't know which one to believe but i'll prepare myself for the worst so I'll upgrade my fan. Which one would you recommend? Something easy to install tho since I'm a nub.

Thanks!


OH! also should I upgrade my ram as well to overclock?
I have this old ram I pulled from my old system
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820150628
Not good for overclock I guess?
Thanks!

 

[raven_87]

Yeah, better RAM could never hurt.

CPU fan? Air?

TT Typhoon (I believe is VX for newer 775 builds) is my recommendation.

 

[shinji3c]

I was actually thinking of getting Ninja or Zalman 9500

Can this fit my COOLER MASTER Centurion 5 ?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16835118223

 

[bigsby]

yes.

Getting better ram never hurt either.

 

[Logicsequence]

Before I overclock my e6600, I want to upgrade my Scythe Mine Cooler.
Asus Suite gives me 33C idle but SpeedFan and Core Temp give me 40C idle. I don't know which one to believe but i'll prepare myself for the worst so I'll upgrade my fan. Which one would you recommend? Something easy to install tho since I'm a nub.

Thanks!


OH! also should I upgrade my ram as well to overclock?
I have this old ram I pulled from my old system
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820150628
Not good for overclock I guess?
Thanks!

Scythe Ninja+ keeps my E6700 idle at 23-25C in both ASUS Probe and SpeedFan.

 

[shinji3c]

ok so if i buy new rams that means i can't use these sticks any more?
What if I put all of them in and run em together??I believe the Rams I have run at 533 or so...I'll have em rest until Vista comes and put em back to fill 4G max ram that Vista supports?

 

[SidVicious]

Scythe Ninja+ keeps my E6700 idle at 23-25C in both ASUS Probe and SpeedFan.

You do realise that 23-25C probably is lower than your room temperature ? This is physically impossible on air cooling alone...

 

[Logicsequence]

Scythe Ninja+ keeps my E6700 idle at 23-25C in both ASUS Probe and SpeedFan.

You do realise that 23-25C probably is lower than your room temperature ? This is physically impossible on air cooling alone...

Oiy, how many times i've heard that from someone... Actually it's not impossible, you should brush up on thermodynamics... And actually my room temperature at this moment is 21.2C; there's this wonderful invention, called air conditioning, you know, keeps your home at a comfortable temperature. And to further prove my point, here's a screenshot of my CPU temp at it's lowest recorded temperature, it remained there for over 1 hour:

And to avoid typing a post i've already typed, i'll quote myself:

CPU:
BIOS idle: 23-25C
Windows idle: 23-25C
Full Load: 26-32C
Lowest temp observed: 19C
Highest temp observed: 32C

MOBO:
BIOS idle: 38-40
Windows Idle: 39-40
Full Load: 40-43C
Lowest temp observed: 29C
Highest temp observed: 47C

I've run CPU Probe II in the background since i built the PC, i've never hit a CPU temp higher than 32C. It only peaked at 31C during 5 consecutive runs of 3DMark06.

Keep in mind tho, i'm running a Scythe Ninja Plus cooler. With a 120mm intake fan on the side of the heatsink, blowing thru the heatsink right into a 120mm exhaust fan in the back of my case. The heatsink is so big it lined up the fans perfectly for a straight run. So that means the airflow is: < Fan < Heatsink < HS Fan < . In total my rig has:

One 120mm intake Fan
One 25cm Side intake Fan
One 120mm exhaust Fan
Two 90mm exhaust Fans
One 120mm Heatsink Fan
Two 40mm Chipset Fans
One 90mm PSU Fan

Here are some pics of my rig, so u can see what i'm talking about:
PIC
PIC
PIC
PIC

Oh and yes i've confirmed the readings with other programs like Speedfan, etc... etc...


Oh and be4 you bring it up...

Your mobo temp is 30 C and CPU 11 degrees below ?! It looks very strange to me.

Well if you knew anything about the ASUS P5W DH Deluxe Motherboard you would know they run VERY hot. With the stock passive heatsinks it idles at 47-48C. Hence my reasoning for chipset coolers. THAT is why the motherboard temp is unusually higher.

 

[SidVicious]

Which further prove my point, a delta of only 2C between your room temp and CPU temp would require an absurdly low thermal resistance in order to dissipate the heat generated by your CPU, even when idle. That Scythe Ninja may be a good HSF but I really doubt it is THAT good.

Wouldn't it be more resoneable to consider that the uncalibrated thermal sensor is giving you misleading readings ? 30~35C is a much more realistic figure...

To the OP : Just overclock with the hardware you got at the moment, 40C is nothing to worry about. Unless you hit the thermal wall on a high end overclock, replacing your current HSF won't change a thing

 

[306maxi]

Wouldn't it be more resoneable to consider that the uncalibrated thermal sensor is giving you misleading readings ? 30~35C is a much more realistic figure...

I'd tend to agree with that as well. The temps which your mobo and CPU report are seldom correct.

Here's a screencap of the temp of my last rig. A P4 2.8 Northwood witha Coolermaster Hyper6 cooling it down while it was left in a room overnight with open windows while the temp was nearly 0 degrees C outside.

Methinks if that was reporting a temp difference of 10+ degrees C then 2 degrees C is just rubbish

 

[Logicsequence]

look, i don't care if you beleive me or not. I've confirmed the temp with 5 seperate temperature monitoring programs and a laser thermometer several times. Whether you beleive me or not is none of my concern.

But i should have you know, in the same room as my C2D i have a Prescott 560J running on air with a Zalman CNPS 7700, and it's idling at 24-26C, with appropriate 40-46C spikes with a load.

But as i said, beleive what you wish.

 

[jaguarskx]

look, i don't care if you beleive me or not. I've confirmed the temp with 5 seperate temperature monitoring programs and a laser thermometer several times. Whether you beleive me or not is none of my concern.

I don't think the other people are disputing your claim that your CPU ranges between 23C - 25C. After all you did say you got similar reading using several different programs.

What they are questioning is the accuracy of the thermal sensor itself. If the thermal is not calibrated properly (which is very common), then it doesn't matter which program you use to monitor the thermal emissions since the sensor is providing the wrong information.

 

[Logicsequence]

look, i don't care if you beleive me or not. I've confirmed the temp with 5 seperate temperature monitoring programs and a laser thermometer several times. Whether you beleive me or not is none of my concern.

I don't think the other people are disputing your claim that your CPU ranges between 23C - 25C. After all you did say you got similar reading using several different programs.

What they are questioning is the accuracy of the thermal sensor itself. If the thermal is not calibrated properly (which is very common), then it doesn't matter which program you use to monitor the thermal emissions since the sensor is providing the wrong information.

Well then you can't ignore the fact i'm getting the same readings PHYSICALLY with a laser thermometer, aimed right at the heatsink AND right down thru the heatsink at the copper block touching the CPU.

Not to mention i'm getting idle temps of 24-26C on an P4 Prescott in the same room with a similar cooler. So you're telling my my laser thermometer is wrong? And another different model motherboard's temp monitor is wrong too? That's a lot of wrongs in one situation.

 

[jaguarskx]

Well then you can't ignore the fact i'm getting the same readings PHYSICALLY with a laser thermometer, aimed right at the heatsink AND right down thru the heatsink at the copper block touching the CPU.

Okay, that's different. I thought, like the others, that you were relying on the motherboard's thermal sensor which has a notorious track record of being inaccruate.

Laser thermometers, on the other hand, are accurate to the best of my knowledge.

 

[Grimmy]

I may have to invest in one of those laser thermometer someday.

Say.. shouldn't there be a rule that everyones room temps should be the same?

. o O (j/k!!)

 

[306maxi]

Well then you can't ignore the fact i'm getting the same readings PHYSICALLY with a laser thermometer, aimed right at the heatsink AND right down thru the heatsink at the copper block touching the CPU.

Okay, that's different. I thought, like the others, that you were relying on the motherboard's thermal sensor which has a notorious track record of being inaccruate.

Laser thermometers, on the other hand, are accurate to the best of my knowledge.

The fact that this guy has now wheeled out the "ummm errr I have a laser thermometer" thing now leads me to believe he's boule sheeting. He wrote first that he confirmed it with numerous programs and now suddenly he's got a laser thermometer :roll:

Seriously. My Northwood P4 was in a room that would couldn't have been much more than 5-7 degrees C had a dirty great big cooler with a fan running at high speed and was about 10 degrees warmer than ambient.

This guy came out and said something, realised his mistake in relying on motherboard thermal sensors and rather than saying "why I think you guys could be right" he made up the fact that he's got a laser thermometer. Sad. Very sad.

 

[Logicsequence]

Well then you can't ignore the fact i'm getting the same readings PHYSICALLY with a laser thermometer, aimed right at the heatsink AND right down thru the heatsink at the copper block touching the CPU.

Okay, that's different. I thought, like the others, that you were relying on the motherboard's thermal sensor which has a notorious track record of being inaccruate.

Laser thermometers, on the other hand, are accurate to the best of my knowledge.

The fact that this guy has now wheeled out the "ummm errr I have a laser thermometer" thing now leads me to believe he's boule sheeting. He wrote first that he confirmed it with numerous programs and now suddenly he's got a laser thermometer :roll:

Seriously. My Northwood P4 was in a room that would couldn't have been much more than 5-7 degrees C had a dirty great big cooler with a fan running at high speed and was about 10 degrees warmer than ambient.

This guy came out and said something, realised his mistake in relying on motherboard thermal sensors and rather than saying "why I think you guys could be right" he made up the fact that he's got a laser thermometer. Sad. Very sad.

Look, i could really care less what you beleive. I've been doing this for years, i'm a professional 3D artist, with degrees in Computer Science, Graphic Design, and Game Art and Design. I've been building computers since i was 15. I don't need your approval or anyone elses. I know what my temperature readings are, and just because you are jealous of them and don't want to beleive it, doesn't mean a thing to me.

But if it makes your feel any better, you win. I'm wrong, my thermometer is wrong, my other PC is wrong, and the programs are all wrong. I spent a lot of money on the best air cooling products, and spent a lot of time and care to arrange things in the case for the best temperatures, but all of that was for not, because i'm wrong. You're right, you're peni$ IS bigger. You win. Congratulations.

 

[jaguarskx]

The fact that this guy has now wheeled out the "ummm errr I have a laser thermometer" thing now leads me to believe he's boule sheeting. He wrote first that he confirmed it with numerous programs and now suddenly he's got a laser thermometer :roll:

The fact that he actually used a laser thermometer is very difficult to dispute. He may or may not have. I'll take it at face value because I simply don't care whether his CPU is running at 23C or 33C.

I must admit that a CPU running 2C above the ambient temperature is a bit hard to swallow, but at this point in time there is nothing to absolutely dispute what he is saying.

If he is lying then so be it. He would only be fooling himself. I think there have been enough counter posts to his statement to indicate that the information "should be taken with a grain of salt." While he's able to achieve 23C, not everyone will be able to with their setup.

 

[306maxi]

Well then you can't ignore the fact i'm getting the same readings PHYSICALLY with a laser thermometer, aimed right at the heatsink AND right down thru the heatsink at the copper block touching the CPU.

Okay, that's different. I thought, like the others, that you were relying on the motherboard's thermal sensor which has a notorious track record of being inaccruate.

Laser thermometers, on the other hand, are accurate to the best of my knowledge.

The fact that this guy has now wheeled out the "ummm errr I have a laser thermometer" thing now leads me to believe he's boule sheeting. He wrote first that he confirmed it with numerous programs and now suddenly he's got a laser thermometer :roll:

Seriously. My Northwood P4 was in a room that would couldn't have been much more than 5-7 degrees C had a dirty great big cooler with a fan running at high speed and was about 10 degrees warmer than ambient.

This guy came out and said something, realised his mistake in relying on motherboard thermal sensors and rather than saying "why I think you guys could be right" he made up the fact that he's got a laser thermometer. Sad. Very sad.

Look, i could really care less what you beleive. I've been doing this for years, i'm a professional 3D artist, with degrees in Computer Science, Graphic Design, and Game Art and Design. I've been building computers since i was 15. I don't need your approval or anyone elses. I know what my temperature readings are, and just because you are jealous of them and don't want to beleive it, doesn't mean a thing to me.

But if it makes your feel any better, you win. I'm wrong, my thermometer is wrong, my other PC is wrong, and the programs are all wrong. I spent a lot of money on the best air cooling products, and spent a lot of time and care to arrange things in the case for the best temperatures, but all of that was for not, because i'm wrong. You're right, you're peni$ IS bigger. You win. Congratulations.

Cheers

I'm not sure what your degrees have to do with this. Methinks you are the one that has issues with size.

If you seriously believe that you can cool to within 2 degrees of ambient air temp then that's good for you. Conventional wisdom says that it's nigh on impossible to get that sort of performance from air cooling.

I just plucked an article from Google as an example. Here's the Thermalright SI-120....... which gets results of 7 degrees above ambient room temp. Now I don't deny that the scythe ninja is probably a better cooler but it's not 5 degrees better. The CPU is about as hot as a C2D as well so it's a fairly good comparison.

http://www.ap0calypse.com/showthread.php?t=2304

 

[306maxi]

The fact that this guy has now wheeled out the "ummm errr I have a laser thermometer" thing now leads me to believe he's boule sheeting. He wrote first that he confirmed it with numerous programs and now suddenly he's got a laser thermometer :roll:

The fact that he actually used a laser thermometer is very difficult to dispute. He may or may not have. I'll take it at face value because I simply don't care whether his CPU is running at 23C or 33C.

I must admit that a CPU running 2C above the ambient temperature is a bit hard to swallow, but at this point in time there is nothing to absolutely dispute what he is saying.

If he is lying then so be it. He would only be fooling himself. I think there have been enough counter posts to his statement to indicate that the information "should be taken with a grain of salt." While he's able to achieve 23C, not everyone will be able to with their setup.

I think it's fair enough to challenge his findings. If he'd posted straight up that he'd verified his temps with a laser thermometer then maybe I'd believe it but it was only after he was challenged that he said he'd done it. I just think he doesn't want to lose face.

Just read what Wusy wrote. He knows a lot more about C2D's than all of us combined and thinks it's BS. Says a fair bit about this guys claims.

 

[jaguarskx]

I think it's fair enough to challenge his findings. If he'd posted straight up that he'd verified his temps with a laser thermometer then maybe I'd believe it but it was only after he was challenged that he said he'd done it. I just think he doesn't want to lose face.

Just read what Wusy wrote. He knows a lot more about C2D's than all of us combined and thinks it's BS. Says a fair bit about this guys claims.

At this point I don't really care what his claim is (bad day at work).

Once I have the time to put my Conroe system together later this week, I'll see if can "borrowing" a laser thermometer from a hardware store to check the temperature.

Like I said before, 2C above ambient is hard to swallow and should be taken with a grain of salt.

 

[Grimmy]

Nobody likes to be mis-infomed of certain things.

Why is it so hard to understand, for say this type of temp difference?

Taking in consideration the HSF design will effect its performance, this is how I came to conclusion of my HSF situation.

I did mod my 7700 HSF, thinking more ( :lol: allot more 30 to 110CFM) CFM would provide better cooling, but in turn I didn't really take its design would hinder it, which resulted that it really didn't make much difference, except maybe for the MB chipset cooling.

But room temp was the main factor. I find that room temps 28C or 80F with air cooling has its limits. Its not going to get any cooler no matter how much air is blown on it.

The other factor is... design. The fan itself only provide CFM around the edges, while the center of the HSF is not being cooled. All the heat has to travel to the fins from the center.

Anyhoo... can anyone say or tell if having a room temp of 20-21C not be able to produce 19C CPU temps?

Perhaps if he turned off some air flow that would balance it out?

So would wind chills does provide somewhat of a reason for that, or how much CFM would it take to knock off 2-3C for an ambient temp of 21C?

 

[big_cheese]

But room temp was the main factor. I find that room temps 28C or 80F with air cooling has its limits. Its not going to get any cooler no matter how much air is blown on it.

The other factor is... design. The fan itself only provide CFM around the edges, while the center of the HSF is not being cooled. All the heat has to travel to the fins from the center.

Anyhoo... can anyone say or tell if having a room temp of 20-21C not be able to produce 19C CPU temps?

Perhaps if he turned off some air flow that would balance it out?

So would wind chills does provide somewhat of a reason for that, or how much CFM would it take to knock off 2-3C for an ambient temp of 21C?

The cpu temp always >= ambient, no matter what the ambient temp is.

 

[Grimmy]

I'm understanding what your saying, but I also must point out that I understand the thermal sensor on a chip will/may not produce the exact temp. So I'm not saying that its accurate or exact.

But then getting a laser thermometer is something I've never taken into account.

Instead, I'm trying to understand how a sensor may show temps that low, and also be affected by CFM, in colder conditions.

For example. Lets say your sitting in a room 70F. Then you take a house fan and turn it on, with is CFM towards one side of your body.

By touch, you should be able to tell a difference in skin temp from the fan blowing on your arm vs the other arm not explosed to the moving air. So that was what I was trying to elaborate on my last post.

 

[Grimmy]

Okay, I can understand that.

But what about the laser thermometer readings? Are they dependable readings? That seems to be the only thing that sticks in my mind.

I guess I should purchase one myself to see if there is a difference or not. Seen some for around 30-40 bucks. Heh, I could also test the thermometer I use for room temps as well, since there are times I wonder if it was telling me accurate temps.

Have you used one of those laser thermometers, Wusy?

Edit:

Gah, I think its going to be tough tring to get a good reading with 7700 HS. Really can't see how I could get a reading near the bottom of it. :?