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Epson Photo R300 "Service required"

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  • Photo
  • Epson
  • Peripherals
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Anonymous
July 31, 2005 3:02:27 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

I have a fairly new R300 which has non-Epson carts installed. It has worked
for a while (obviously thru' the supplied Epsons carts) using these cheaper
carts. No it is displaying the message "Service required. Parts inside your
printer are at the end of their service life." Can anyone say if this is as
terminal as it suggests?
Could it be the carts which are causing the message, because they are not
Epson brand?
Is there anyway to 'reset' the printer and clear the problem?

Please help?

Nigel
P.S. I have another R300 which also has the same non-Epson carts and is (so
far) still working fine.

More about : epson photo r300 service required

July 31, 2005 7:23:40 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

You can reset as suggested but great care should be used as the pads in the
base require changing. You could if you wished use the suggested program and
fit a waste bottle which would prevent further waste ink going into the
pads. It's a very simple job to undertake all you have to do is remove the
small plate at the back of the printer and look for the green tube just at
the back of the wiring, with a thin screwdriver lift the tube to the out
side, lifting the tube from the bottom of the printer to the outside, Epson
don't give a lot of spare so you will only get just over an inch out side
the printer, connect an extension tube either over the top or inside the
green tube and feed into a small container with a small piece of tube into
the container lid to prevent a vacuum. The alternative is to take the
printer to an Epson repair centre and have the pads replaced or replace them
your self. If you require a photo of the above please email mail me.


"Nigel Andrews" <nandrews2@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:7d2He.19000$bT4.4883@newsfe1-gui.ntli.net...
> I have a fairly new R300 which has non-Epson carts installed. It has
worked
> for a while (obviously thru' the supplied Epsons carts) using these
cheaper
> carts. No it is displaying the message "Service required. Parts inside
your
> printer are at the end of their service life." Can anyone say if this is
as
> terminal as it suggests?
> Could it be the carts which are causing the message, because they are not
> Epson brand?
> Is there anyway to 'reset' the printer and clear the problem?
>
> Please help?
>
> Nigel
> P.S. I have another R300 which also has the same non-Epson carts and is
(so
> far) still working fine.
>
>
Anonymous
July 31, 2005 9:02:27 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Nigel Andrews wrote:

>I have a fairly new R300 which has non-Epson carts installed.
>

THAT IS YOUR FIRST MISTAKE. YOU DO NOT KNOW WHAT YOU ARE USING.

>It has worked
>for a while (obviously thru' the supplied Epsons carts) using these cheaper
>carts. No it is displaying the message "Service required. Parts inside your
>printer are at the end of their service life." Can anyone say if this is as
>terminal as it suggests?
>Could it be the carts which are causing the message, because they are not
>Epson brand?
>
>

ABSOLUTELY. YOU DO NOT KNOW WHAT YOU ARE USING BECAUSE THE WHORES THAT
SOLD IT TO YOU WILL NOT DISCLOSE THAT INFORMATION.

>Is there anyway to 'reset' the printer and clear the problem?
>
>Please help?
>
>Nigel
>P.S. I have another R300 which also has the same non-Epson carts and is (so
>far) still working fine.
>
>

JUST WAIT FOR THE OTHER SHOE TO DROP. I WOULD PURGE THE MACHINE AND GET
OEM EPSON INK.

>
>
>
Related resources
July 31, 2005 9:17:34 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Nothing to do with the type of ink used. It's down to the number of cleans
and nozzle checks, You should know better. I use nothing else but third
party ink with no problems whatever. You have no idea what you are talking
about.

"measekite" <inkystinky@oem.com> wrote in message
news:D u7He.82$C11.79@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...
>
>
> Nigel Andrews wrote:
>
> >I have a fairly new R300 which has non-Epson carts installed.
> >
>
> THAT IS YOUR FIRST MISTAKE. YOU DO NOT KNOW WHAT YOU ARE USING.
>
> >It has worked
> >for a while (obviously thru' the supplied Epsons carts) using these
cheaper
> >carts. No it is displaying the message "Service required. Parts inside
your
> >printer are at the end of their service life." Can anyone say if this is
as
> >terminal as it suggests?
> >Could it be the carts which are causing the message, because they are not
> >Epson brand?
> >
> >
>
> ABSOLUTELY. YOU DO NOT KNOW WHAT YOU ARE USING BECAUSE THE WHORES THAT
> SOLD IT TO YOU WILL NOT DISCLOSE THAT INFORMATION.
>
> >Is there anyway to 'reset' the printer and clear the problem?
> >
> >Please help?
> >
> >Nigel
> >P.S. I have another R300 which also has the same non-Epson carts and is
(so
> >far) still working fine.
> >
> >
>
> JUST WAIT FOR THE OTHER SHOE TO DROP. I WOULD PURGE THE MACHINE AND GET
> OEM EPSON INK.
>
> >
> >
> >
July 31, 2005 9:58:52 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

> It >DOES< have to do with the type of ink used, and more importantly, the bogus
> chips in those carts which, more likely than not, forced many more cleanings
> than the oem carts [some are known to do a cleaning prior to each printout!]

A bogus chip would be reported by the status monitor. A clone chip
would be no different than OEM, but these are refilled carts which are
in all likelyhood epson OEM chips pulled from old carts and reset.

In my experence that gasket getting knocked out of place is far more
likely to cause clogging and result in the need for more cleanings than
any other factor.

As far as cleaning might have to ask the OP.
Anonymous
July 31, 2005 10:15:42 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

On Sun, 31 Jul 2005 17:02:27 GMT, measekite <inkystinky@oem.com>
wrote:

>
>
>Nigel Andrews wrote:
>
>>I have a fairly new R300 which has non-Epson carts installed.
>>
>
>THAT IS YOUR FIRST MISTAKE. YOU DO NOT KNOW WHAT YOU ARE USING.
>
>>It has worked
>>for a while (obviously thru' the supplied Epsons carts) using these cheaper
>>carts. No it is displaying the message "Service required. Parts inside your
>>printer are at the end of their service life." Can anyone say if this is as
>>terminal as it suggests?
>>Could it be the carts which are causing the message, because they are not
>>Epson brand?
>>
>>
>
>ABSOLUTELY. YOU DO NOT KNOW WHAT YOU ARE USING BECAUSE THE WHORES THAT
>SOLD IT TO YOU WILL NOT DISCLOSE THAT INFORMATION.
>
>>Is there anyway to 'reset' the printer and clear the problem?
>>
>>Please help?
>>
>>Nigel
>>P.S. I have another R300 which also has the same non-Epson carts and is (so
>>far) still working fine.
>>
>>
>
>JUST WAIT FOR THE OTHER SHOE TO DROP. I WOULD PURGE THE MACHINE AND GET
>OEM EPSON INK.
>
>>
>>
>>
YOu need the Epson reset program to reset the waste ink pad eeprom
Want to Fix Something?

http://www.manuals4you.com
Anonymous
July 31, 2005 11:14:00 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

In article <Du7He.82$C11.79@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com>,
inkystinky@oem.com (measekite the troll) wrote:

> YOU DO NOT KNOW WHAT YOU ARE USING.

And you're showing your ignorance and your prejudice, as usual. It almost
certainly has nothing to do with the cartridges and more to do with the
level of usage the printer has had.

Jon.
August 1, 2005 2:10:18 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Nigel Andrews wrote:

> I have a fairly new R300 which has non-Epson carts installed. It has worked
> for a while (obviously thru' the supplied Epsons carts) using these cheaper
> carts. No it is displaying the message "Service required. Parts inside your
> printer are at the end of their service life." Can anyone say if this is as
> terminal as it suggests?
> Could it be the carts which are causing the message, because they are not
> Epson brand?
> Is there anyway to 'reset' the printer and clear the problem?
>
> Please help?
>
> Nigel
> P.S. I have another R300 which also has the same non-Epson carts and is (so
> far) still working fine.
>
>


Download the software here and see if resetting works

http://www.ssclg.com/epsone.shtml
Anonymous
August 1, 2005 2:30:42 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

"Shooter" <photoman52003-shoot@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:D cj13e$6k8$1@nwrdmz02.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com...
> Nothing to do with the type of ink used. It's down to the number of cleans
> and nozzle checks, You should know better. I use nothing else but third
> party ink with no problems whatever. You have no idea what you are talking
> about.

Bull.

It >DOES< have to do with the type of ink used, and more importantly, the bogus
chips in those carts which, more likely than not, forced many more cleanings
than the oem carts [some are known to do a cleaning prior to each printout!]
August 1, 2005 2:46:58 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

> YOu need the Epson reset program to reset the waste ink pad eeprom

Actually http://www.ssclg.com/epsone.shtml

The ssc utility does the trick very well. You don't *need* epson's
program at all.
August 1, 2005 12:24:43 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

> > and more importantly, the bogus
> > chips in those carts which, more likely than not, forced many more cleanings
> Sorry shooter, but that's how it works. Cleanings count against the 'pad full'
> tally. And if you don't know that, you have zero understanding of most
>printers. Idiot.

I think the question is how do bogus chips cause more cleanings in
refilled carts. Yes the waste ink count is the sole factor the epson
r200 and r300 use to determine when a pad needs replacing, but the
chips that are onboard serve really serve two fuctions...
1. Identify what type of ink they are and what color
2. Keep track of ink used.

So called "bogus chips" could be ones which auto-reset after they reach
a certain number, which doesn't really apply here as these are refills,
which wouldn't be an issue with refilled carts. Even if true, near as
I'm aware the epson 200 and r300 don't trigger a cleaning cycle if the
value goes from a low value to a high value, if this were so than those
who choose to replace one cart without hitting the cart replace button
wouldn't observe an effect.

There are many chips on 3rd party carts that get seen as not being
epson oem.... which if you are trying to say the printer forces more
cleanings from those than OEM could be an insightful statement but this
would be the first time "I" heard about it. If this is what you are
saying please say it more clearly, i'd greatly appricate valid
information on the subject.

But near as i'm aware bogus chips don't affect the value of the waste
counter as the waste count is based on how many drops are ejected which
gets stored on the printer and subtracted from the chips drop count,
neither of which are directly connected to each other.
August 1, 2005 4:10:26 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Absolute rubbish. You are talking about an Epson R300, if so you have little
understanding of that machine.


"SamSez" <samtheman@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:micHe.1959$va1.453@trndny09...
>
> "Shooter" <photoman52003-shoot@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:D cj13e$6k8$1@nwrdmz02.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com...
> > Nothing to do with the type of ink used. It's down to the number of
cleans
> > and nozzle checks, You should know better. I use nothing else but third
> > party ink with no problems whatever. You have no idea what you are
talking
> > about.
>
> Bull.
>
> It >DOES< have to do with the type of ink used, and more importantly, the
bogus
> chips in those carts which, more likely than not, forced many more
cleanings
> than the oem carts [some are known to do a cleaning prior to each
printout!]
>
>
Anonymous
August 1, 2005 4:28:15 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Chances are you have hit the waste ink pad protection numbers.

The reset requires proprietary software from Epson, and the cost of
repair is likely nearly that of the printer.

You can try to hunt down a printer utility, provided out of Russia which
may allow you to reset the EPPROM or the waste ink pads, but I believe
once you have reached that point the software will not turn the clock back.

Art


Nigel Andrews wrote:

> I have a fairly new R300 which has non-Epson carts installed. It has worked
> for a while (obviously thru' the supplied Epsons carts) using these cheaper
> carts. No it is displaying the message "Service required. Parts inside your
> printer are at the end of their service life." Can anyone say if this is as
> terminal as it suggests?
> Could it be the carts which are causing the message, because they are not
> Epson brand?
> Is there anyway to 'reset' the printer and clear the problem?
>
> Please help?
>
> Nigel
> P.S. I have another R300 which also has the same non-Epson carts and is (so
> far) still working fine.
>
>
Anonymous
August 1, 2005 4:43:12 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Sorry shooter, but that's how it works. Cleanings count against the 'pad full'
tally. And if you don't know that, you have zero understanding of most
printers. Idiot.

"Shooter" <photoman52003-shoot@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:D cl3fi$a3u$1@nwrdmz01.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com...
> Absolute rubbish. You are talking about an Epson R300, if so you have little
> understanding of that machine.
>
>
> "SamSez" <samtheman@verizon.net> wrote in message
> news:micHe.1959$va1.453@trndny09...
> >
> > "Shooter" <photoman52003-shoot@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
> > news:D cj13e$6k8$1@nwrdmz02.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com...
> > > Nothing to do with the type of ink used. It's down to the number of
> cleans
> > > and nozzle checks, You should know better. I use nothing else but third
> > > party ink with no problems whatever. You have no idea what you are
> talking
> > > about.
> >
> > Bull.
> >
> > It >DOES< have to do with the type of ink used, and more importantly, the
> bogus
> > chips in those carts which, more likely than not, forced many more
> cleanings
> > than the oem carts [some are known to do a cleaning prior to each
> printout!]
> >
> >
>
>
Anonymous
August 1, 2005 7:58:32 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Arthur Entlich wrote:

> Chances are you have hit the waste ink pad protection numbers.
>
> The reset requires proprietary software from Epson, and the cost of
> repair is likely nearly that of the printer.
>
> You can try to hunt down a printer utility, provided out of Russia
> which may allow you to reset the EPPROM or the waste ink pads, but I
> believe once you have reached that point the software will not turn
> the clock back.
>
> Art
>

INKY STINKY INK ALL OVER THE PLACE.

>
> Nigel Andrews wrote:
>
>> I have a fairly new R300 which has non-Epson carts installed. It has
>> worked for a while (obviously thru' the supplied Epsons carts) using
>> these cheaper carts. No it is displaying the message "Service
>> required. Parts inside your printer are at the end of their service
>> life." Can anyone say if this is as terminal as it suggests?
>> Could it be the carts which are causing the message, because they are
>> not Epson brand?
>> Is there anyway to 'reset' the printer and clear the problem?
>>
>> Please help?
>>
>> Nigel
>> P.S. I have another R300 which also has the same non-Epson carts and
>> is (so far) still working fine.
>>
>>
August 2, 2005 2:24:28 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

> There were reports of 3rd party chips that triggered a charge cycle with every
> powerup.

Perhaps you can share these reports and which of these chips triggered
a charge cycle with every powerup.
August 2, 2005 9:51:19 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

> This vendor makes the 'new' version of the chip that does NOT do a charge cycle
> on power up:

I read your link and... while I did look... do not understand where you
are getting anything regarding 3rd party chips triggering extra
cleanings or purges. I do see chips that are designed to be auto
resetting... as in they pop up to 100% after they reach 10%, as opposed
to a type that need to be manualy reset like epson oem chips, or of a
type that are desgined to reset when you turn off the power. Franky I
have never heard of this type, but sounds like some form of volatile
memory rather than some form of flash memory. I don't know.... never
heard of that type at all.

What i'm not understanding is the OP is talking about 3rd party carts..
which I can only assume are of a type that are filled by some 3rd
party, which in turn are used by the end user and thrown away or
returned when empty. Unless they are clear there is no way for the end
user to know how much ink is in them so they are totally dependent on
the chips that keep track of fullness. I can not understand anyone in
their right mind using volatile memory in such a product for a single
use product when there is a huge surplus of OEM epson chips that are
painfuly easy to reset, just not so easy while they are in the printer.
August 2, 2005 11:39:49 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

> a) these people DO make these chips [I guess some people just like new chips and
> not prying old ones out of old carts. Nor am I sure where your 'huge surplus'
> of chips is. I doubt it's in China where these chips are being made by the
> fist-full to supply the China cart makers.]

The surplus comes from old OEM Epson carts. Look around for those who
advertise "will pay money for used epson carts". This is where the
surplus is comming from. Now if you're talking a bulk feed system
these are impractical for that but if you're talking pre-filled 3rd
party carts... just offer end users pennies on the dollar for their
empty OEM carts, pull them (attached by two pieces of plastic
mushroomed at the ends by heat), reset them, and put them on refilled
carts. Easy peasy esp if you re-use the cart and just fill it with ink
and reset it, which is the prefered method even if you have to bottom
fill... there are machines that do this for you.

> Bottom line, I am not justifying the way they worked, and to you and me, perhaps
> it doesn't make sense that that's the way they worked, but that doesn't change
> the fact that they did work that way. And when they did, your waste pad
> [remember, 'service required' -- the name of the thread] would fill up sooner
> than it would otherwise.

Yes, I remember the name of the thread... there is no evidence to
sugest the fact that the OP was using a cart of this type. I have
never *ever* heard of the chips you are talking about that were
volitile on pre-filled carts.

> It >DOES< have to do with the type of ink used, and more importantly, the bogus
> chips in those carts which, more likely than not, forced many more cleanings
> than the oem carts [some are known to do a cleaning prior to each printout!]

This is the point in dispute. While I'm willing to believe if a
volitile form of memory is used where they ink count would reset to
zero may cause the printer to do a cleaning cycle when you turn it on
though i've not observed this behavier, I find it hard to believe that
even a cart with a volitile chip would peform this behavier before
every print. If true it has absolutely nothing to do with the ink
inside but the chip resetting to zero when power is removed. Further,
we are not talking refillables or even bulk feed systems but rather
"using these cheaper carts" which are not likely to be of the auto
resetting type anyway. There is no point to using the auto resetting
type for pre-filled carts. They cost more than non-resetting, and much
much more than used OEM chips which do the job perfectly well.

You raise an interesting idea, one worth exploring. But keep in mind
we are talking the epson r300 here, which gets a full diaper after
there and abouts of the 10th cartrage using OEM ink based on my
estimates.
Anonymous
August 3, 2005 2:42:30 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

"zakezuke" <zakezuke_us@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1123003468.739415.286600@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> > There were reports of 3rd party chips that triggered a charge cycle with
every
> > powerup.
>
> Perhaps you can share these reports and which of these chips triggered
> a charge cycle with every powerup.
>

This vendor makes the 'new' version of the chip that does NOT do a charge cycle
on power up:

http://szmicrotec.en.ec21.com/GC00836617/CA00845938/Aut...(Ink_Cartridges).html

It is intended for refillable and CIS systems, but as noted by the seller, it is
ALSO used in remanufactured carts and has wound up in the 'white box' trade.

It is the PREVIOUS version of this 'now improved' chip [which also wound up in
the white box trade] that triggered unwanted charge cycles on power up [and
could fill up your waste pad before it would have been filled up by OEM carts].

And 'shooter' -- plonk to you [Absolute Bollocks, I won't even see your
apology].
Anonymous
August 3, 2005 5:30:07 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

"zakezuke" <zakezuke_us@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1123030279.560536.61450@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> > This vendor makes the 'new' version of the chip that does NOT do a charge
cycle
> > on power up:
>
> I read your link and... while I did look... do not understand where you
> are getting anything regarding 3rd party chips triggering extra
> cleanings or purges. I do see chips that are designed to be auto
> resetting... as in they pop up to 100% after they reach 10%, as opposed
> to a type that need to be manualy reset like epson oem chips, or of a
> type that are desgined to reset when you turn off the power. Franky I
> have never heard of this type, but sounds like some form of volatile
> memory rather than some form of flash memory. I don't know.... never
> heard of that type at all.
>
> What i'm not understanding is the OP is talking about 3rd party carts..
> which I can only assume are of a type that are filled by some 3rd
> party, which in turn are used by the end user and thrown away or
> returned when empty. Unless they are clear there is no way for the end
> user to know how much ink is in them so they are totally dependent on
> the chips that keep track of fullness. I can not understand anyone in
> their right mind using volatile memory in such a product for a single
> use product when there is a huge surplus of OEM epson chips that are
> painfuly easy to reset, just not so easy while they are in the printer.
>

a) these people DO make these chips [I guess some people just like new chips and
not prying old ones out of old carts. Nor am I sure where your 'huge surplus'
of chips is. I doubt it's in China where these chips are being made by the
fist-full to supply the China cart makers.]

b) these chips are intended for 3rd party carts [not sure about your confusion
with the phrase "3rd party" -- these are 3rd party chips intended for 3rd party
carts].

c) their previous version would force a cleaning [in their words, maybe not the
best English, "clear printer head"] when they were reset. Only their NEWER
version are the [smarter] "non-clear printer head" type.

d) those older chips would auto-reset when the power was cycled [by design], and
when they did, they would "clear printer head". [And there is no reason to
believe that this is done with volatile memory. Sounds to me like a just a
design that self resets the flash without needing an external device. But
that's beside the point.]

e) some of those older chips wound up in third party carts [which is what the
comment in my earliest post was all about -- namely, that SOME third party carts
were said to trigger unnecessary cleaning cycles]. Think the little job shops
pumping out unbranded carts by the basket load fully test the end combination of
parts to guarantee that they work 'nice' in your printer?

Bottom line, I am not justifying the way they worked, and to you and me, perhaps
it doesn't make sense that that's the way they worked, but that doesn't change
the fact that they did work that way. And when they did, your waste pad
[remember, 'service required' -- the name of the thread] would fill up sooner
than it would otherwise.
Anonymous
August 3, 2005 1:11:56 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Sam, it seems to me you took a very unlikely scenario and tried to make
it sound like a normal situation that was likely to occur with a 3rd
party cartridge.

To quote your original posting:
"Bull.

It >DOES< have to do with the type of ink used, and more importantly,
the bogus
chips in those carts which, more likely than not, forced many more cleanings
than the oem carts [some are known to do a cleaning prior to each
printout!]"

However, further examination finds that in very rare cases a chip
designed for a CIS might have somehow ended up on some 3rd party
cartridges, and you assumed that the reason a person's waste ink pads
were full was due to his encountering these very unusual chips on 3rd
party ink cartridges.

The odds of someone getting even one of these cartridges is rather
minute, and more than one, nearly zero, it would seem to me. Also, if
these cartridges reset at 10%, that could only happen once per cartridge
fill, since it would run out of ink during or after that second purge.
If, as was implied, the full purge started on each startup, the
cartridge would have emptied in, as mentioned before, about 10 -15 resets.

Art


SamSez wrote:

> "zakezuke" <zakezuke_us@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:1123030279.560536.61450@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
>
>>>This vendor makes the 'new' version of the chip that does NOT do a charge
>
> cycle
>
>>>on power up:
>>
>>I read your link and... while I did look... do not understand where you
>>are getting anything regarding 3rd party chips triggering extra
>>cleanings or purges. I do see chips that are designed to be auto
>>resetting... as in they pop up to 100% after they reach 10%, as opposed
>>to a type that need to be manualy reset like epson oem chips, or of a
>>type that are desgined to reset when you turn off the power. Franky I
>>have never heard of this type, but sounds like some form of volatile
>>memory rather than some form of flash memory. I don't know.... never
>>heard of that type at all.
>>
>>What i'm not understanding is the OP is talking about 3rd party carts..
>>which I can only assume are of a type that are filled by some 3rd
>>party, which in turn are used by the end user and thrown away or
>>returned when empty. Unless they are clear there is no way for the end
>>user to know how much ink is in them so they are totally dependent on
>>the chips that keep track of fullness. I can not understand anyone in
>>their right mind using volatile memory in such a product for a single
>>use product when there is a huge surplus of OEM epson chips that are
>>painfuly easy to reset, just not so easy while they are in the printer.
>>
>
>
> a) these people DO make these chips [I guess some people just like new chips and
> not prying old ones out of old carts. Nor am I sure where your 'huge surplus'
> of chips is. I doubt it's in China where these chips are being made by the
> fist-full to supply the China cart makers.]
>
> b) these chips are intended for 3rd party carts [not sure about your confusion
> with the phrase "3rd party" -- these are 3rd party chips intended for 3rd party
> carts].
>
> c) their previous version would force a cleaning [in their words, maybe not the
> best English, "clear printer head"] when they were reset. Only their NEWER
> version are the [smarter] "non-clear printer head" type.
>
> d) those older chips would auto-reset when the power was cycled [by design], and
> when they did, they would "clear printer head". [And there is no reason to
> believe that this is done with volatile memory. Sounds to me like a just a
> design that self resets the flash without needing an external device. But
> that's beside the point.]
>
> e) some of those older chips wound up in third party carts [which is what the
> comment in my earliest post was all about -- namely, that SOME third party carts
> were said to trigger unnecessary cleaning cycles]. Think the little job shops
> pumping out unbranded carts by the basket load fully test the end combination of
> parts to guarantee that they work 'nice' in your printer?
>
> Bottom line, I am not justifying the way they worked, and to you and me, perhaps
> it doesn't make sense that that's the way they worked, but that doesn't change
> the fact that they did work that way. And when they did, your waste pad
> [remember, 'service required' -- the name of the thread] would fill up sooner
> than it would otherwise.
>
>
>
August 3, 2005 3:01:48 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

> And yes, my r300, chugging away on overpriced oem ink, is
> still going. To me, it's worth the price to not have do someone
> else's QA on my hardware with every
> new cart I buy.

Great... go for it, the oem epson ink is pretty good. Surprised you
didn't consider the r200 which right now is less money at office depot
than the ink it comes with. In fact, you probally should.

> Remember my original 'bull' reply was in response to the flat > out statement that 3rd party carts could not possibly have
> anything to do with the problem -- which is simply not true.

The problem is you said it had something to do with the ink, which it
has nothing to do with the ink, but rather the chips on the carts
assuming what you say is accurate and it was using volitile chips that
would have a count of 0 and the printer would think "i'm new" and do a
cleaning cycle. And even then it has to do more with the fact the
epson's cleaning cycle is in the ml range... and 7 carts in the r300 =
a buttload of ink.

Further he probally didn't kill the printer, the printer probally did
*exactly* what it's designed to do. Count the number cleans, save to
flashrom, if value in the 20,000 range (not sure of the number) don't
ever print again until such time as the service program says i've been
serviced. In the case of the OP and your friend who used this printer
for trade shows, they both probally used the printer much... about 10
carts worth or so, and the diaper got full. This is perfectly normal
epson r200/r300 behavier. Anyone who has these printers should whether
they use OEM or 3rd party open the door in the back and take all that
waste ink and route it to a bottle. I estimate that a normal user will
require a diaper change after 1 year of normal use... me, printing
about 180 5x5 images 6 months. I would be more inclined to believe
that your friend at trade shows over 90 days printed such a high amount
that their diaper got full twice as fast as mine after about 10 carts.
August 3, 2005 4:01:18 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

> Haven't heard about this, and not sure what would be required in terms
> of the chip design to do this, but I suppose it might be possible.

Ram rather than flash memory.

> Normally, the printer reads the chip status on startup (power-up) as a
> starting point to count down the ink contents status.

Unless i'm mistaken the epsons count up from 0, so a new chip would be
0.

> I suppose some rather odd chip design might cause a purging session

This is a totally odd chip design, one which i've *NEVER* seen. No one
in their right mind would offer pre-fills of the resetting type whether
they be auto at a given value or just ram. In the most simple terms I
can think of... the chips would cost more. I could see this as part of
a first generation CIS system, but i've never ever seen chips of this
type.

I firmly believe that 90 days to full diaper was the result of normal
use rather than extra cleaning purging priming cycles as a result of
poor chip design. As you pointed out... the carts would be empty after
under 10 resets.
Anonymous
August 3, 2005 5:30:17 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Art -

Don't know what the odds were, but I do know that an associate of mine at work
must have had a set of these [or clone] chips in a set of carts he bought for
his r200 at a 'week-end computer show'. They were even advertised as 'easy
refill', and sold with spare ink. He killed the printer within 90 days [so he
just took it back to Sams]. After observing it, we saw that it was OK if you
powered it down with the top button, but if you removed and re-applied line
power [even with the lights off and the printer apparently powered down], it
would do a clean cycle. I suppose a bug in the way they implemented the
auto-reset [and perhaps the reason for the reference to 'less head damage' with
the new design].

As to 'ending up' in single use carts -- the chip seller [according to his own
web page] even sells them for that purpose [why, I don't know].

Remember my original 'bull' reply was in response to the flat out statement that
3rd party carts could not possibly have anything to do with the problem -- which
is simply not true. Sure, if you buy on trusted recommendation, or buy from a
source that you know for a fact hasn't just changed supplier, you will probably
be ok -- but regardless, you are the one doing the QA with little recourse
[depending on the vendor] if you have problems.

[And yes, my r300, chugging away on overpriced oem ink, is still going. To me,
it's worth the price to not have do someone else's QA on my hardware with every
new cart I buy.]

"Arthur Entlich" <e-printerhelp@mvps.org> wrote in message
news:wT%He.102152$%K2.60915@pd7tw1no...
> Sam, it seems to me you took a very unlikely scenario and tried to make
> it sound like a normal situation that was likely to occur with a 3rd
> party cartridge.
>
> To quote your original posting:
> "Bull.
>
> It >DOES< have to do with the type of ink used, and more importantly,
> the bogus
> chips in those carts which, more likely than not, forced many more cleanings
> than the oem carts [some are known to do a cleaning prior to each
> printout!]"
>
> However, further examination finds that in very rare cases a chip
> designed for a CIS might have somehow ended up on some 3rd party
> cartridges, and you assumed that the reason a person's waste ink pads
> were full was due to his encountering these very unusual chips on 3rd
> party ink cartridges.
>
> The odds of someone getting even one of these cartridges is rather
> minute, and more than one, nearly zero, it would seem to me. Also, if
> these cartridges reset at 10%, that could only happen once per cartridge
> fill, since it would run out of ink during or after that second purge.
> If, as was implied, the full purge started on each startup, the
> cartridge would have emptied in, as mentioned before, about 10 -15 resets.
>
> Art
>
>
> SamSez wrote:
>
> > "zakezuke" <zakezuke_us@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:1123030279.560536.61450@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> >
> >>>This vendor makes the 'new' version of the chip that does NOT do a charge
> >
> > cycle
> >
> >>>on power up:
> >>
> >>I read your link and... while I did look... do not understand where you
> >>are getting anything regarding 3rd party chips triggering extra
> >>cleanings or purges. I do see chips that are designed to be auto
> >>resetting... as in they pop up to 100% after they reach 10%, as opposed
> >>to a type that need to be manualy reset like epson oem chips, or of a
> >>type that are desgined to reset when you turn off the power. Franky I
> >>have never heard of this type, but sounds like some form of volatile
> >>memory rather than some form of flash memory. I don't know.... never
> >>heard of that type at all.
> >>
> >>What i'm not understanding is the OP is talking about 3rd party carts..
> >>which I can only assume are of a type that are filled by some 3rd
> >>party, which in turn are used by the end user and thrown away or
> >>returned when empty. Unless they are clear there is no way for the end
> >>user to know how much ink is in them so they are totally dependent on
> >>the chips that keep track of fullness. I can not understand anyone in
> >>their right mind using volatile memory in such a product for a single
> >>use product when there is a huge surplus of OEM epson chips that are
> >>painfuly easy to reset, just not so easy while they are in the printer.
> >>
> >
> >
> > a) these people DO make these chips [I guess some people just like new chips
and
> > not prying old ones out of old carts. Nor am I sure where your 'huge
surplus'
> > of chips is. I doubt it's in China where these chips are being made by the
> > fist-full to supply the China cart makers.]
> >
> > b) these chips are intended for 3rd party carts [not sure about your
confusion
> > with the phrase "3rd party" -- these are 3rd party chips intended for 3rd
party
> > carts].
> >
> > c) their previous version would force a cleaning [in their words, maybe not
the
> > best English, "clear printer head"] when they were reset. Only their NEWER
> > version are the [smarter] "non-clear printer head" type.
> >
> > d) those older chips would auto-reset when the power was cycled [by design],
and
> > when they did, they would "clear printer head". [And there is no reason to
> > believe that this is done with volatile memory. Sounds to me like a just a
> > design that self resets the flash without needing an external device. But
> > that's beside the point.]
> >
> > e) some of those older chips wound up in third party carts [which is what
the
> > comment in my earliest post was all about -- namely, that SOME third party
carts
> > were said to trigger unnecessary cleaning cycles]. Think the little job
shops
> > pumping out unbranded carts by the basket load fully test the end
combination of
> > parts to guarantee that they work 'nice' in your printer?
> >
> > Bottom line, I am not justifying the way they worked, and to you and me,
perhaps
> > it doesn't make sense that that's the way they worked, but that doesn't
change
> > the fact that they did work that way. And when they did, your waste pad
> > [remember, 'service required' -- the name of the thread] would fill up
sooner
> > than it would otherwise.
> >
> >
> >
!