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Oblivion wishes...

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Anonymous
July 3, 2005 7:58:34 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.morrowind (More info?)

Hi all,

just noticed the announciation of Oblivion (i'm not
too actively watching for new games ;-)), read a bit
about it, and want to write a few thoughts to discuss...

-World size
In the interviews they say, the world will be similar
or smaller size but with a plot guidance feature so you
don't get "lost".
Well *I* hope the world is at least the same size, and
with more stuff in it. Something like the density of
Seyda neem, for the whole world.
And stuff to find that is actually usefull when you
have the level to find it (read: not just an iron
sparksword in a hard to find underwatercave full
of fish and merfolk)

-More action based combat system with "real blocking"
I found MW combat system pretty nice. Ok, i didn't
melee much anyways... i just pray they don't add
platform jumping sequences, too ;-)

-Hardware requirements
One mentioned number was

Pentium 4 @ 2Ghz or Athlon 2000+.
256-512MB of RAM.
ATi Radeon 9600 or equivilent and above.
DirectX 9.0 compatable soundcard

Thats about what i would call good for Morrowind
(its pretty much the PC i assembled to play MW on it).
Interpolating from that, and the screenhots, i'd rather
guess something like

Dual Opteron 2.6 ghz
4 GB of RAM
Dual GeForce 7800 GTX in SLI

to play with maximum details :-)

But in overall, it sounds very very very very very
interesting...

More about : oblivion wishes

Anonymous
July 3, 2005 7:58:35 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.morrowind (More info?)

On Sun, 03 Jul 2005 15:58:34 +0200, Andreas Koch
<mail@kochandreas.com> wrote:

>-More action based combat system with "real blocking"
>I found MW combat system pretty nice. Ok, i didn't
>melee much anyways... i just pray they don't add
>platform jumping sequences, too ;-)

I'm a little worried about this. They've tried toughening up the
combat in past games with disastrous results. I'm thinking
Battlespire and Redguard. I was really looking forward to Redguard
but I gave up after the first half hour because the combat was just
impossible. I got through Battlespire but it was difficult -- they
didn't include an easy combat setting.

I don't think they realize that a lot of people actually LIKE easy
combat and prefer to approach the games in a more exploratory,
easygoing manner. I am terrible at twitchy fighting and can't play
FPS games for that reason.

I hope they won't make it so hard that those of us with slow reflexes
won't be able to play and if they do there is truly "easy" setting.

Alexa
Anonymous
July 3, 2005 7:58:36 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.morrowind (More info?)

alexa expounded thusly:

> I'm a little worried about this. They've tried toughening up the
> combat in past games with disastrous results. I'm thinking
> Battlespire and Redguard. I was really looking forward to Redguard
> but I gave up after the first half hour because the combat was just
> impossible. I got through Battlespire but it was difficult -- they
> didn't include an easy combat setting.
>
> I don't think they realize that a lot of people actually LIKE easy
> combat and prefer to approach the games in a more exploratory,
> easygoing manner. I am terrible at twitchy fighting and can't play
> FPS games for that reason.
>
> I hope they won't make it so hard that those of us with slow reflexes
> won't be able to play and if they do there is truly "easy" setting.

You're right. And the more "action" elements they put in, the more the
RPG character suffers. I don't play FPS, action, or platform type
stuff. If they just *have* to put those elements in, they should at
least make it toggleable so it can remain an RPG.

-mb
Related resources
Can't find your answer ? Ask !
July 4, 2005 1:06:53 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.morrowind (More info?)

That's why they put the 'difficulty' slider in options.

alexa wrote:

> I'm a little worried about this. They've tried toughening up the
> combat in past games with disastrous results. I'm thinking
> Battlespire and Redguard. I was really looking forward to Redguard
> but I gave up after the first half hour because the combat was just
> impossible. I got through Battlespire but it was difficult -- they
> didn't include an easy combat setting.
>
> I don't think they realize that a lot of people actually LIKE easy
> combat and prefer to approach the games in a more exploratory,
> easygoing manner. I am terrible at twitchy fighting and can't play
> FPS games for that reason.
>
> I hope they won't make it so hard that those of us with slow reflexes
> won't be able to play and if they do there is truly "easy" setting.
>
> Alexa
>
Anonymous
July 4, 2005 3:03:34 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.morrowind (More info?)

Hi,

"alexa" <xandbar@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:1120414826.c7cd792b57a31943ac891d54a9f21ff5@teranews...
> On Sun, 03 Jul 2005 15:58:34 +0200, Andreas Koch
> <mail@kochandreas.com> wrote:
>
>>-More action based combat system with "real blocking"
>>I found MW combat system pretty nice. Ok, i didn't
>>melee much anyways... i just pray they don't add
>>platform jumping sequences, too ;-)
>
> I'm a little worried about this. They've tried toughening up the
> combat in past games with disastrous results. I'm thinking
> Battlespire and Redguard. I was really looking forward to Redguard
> but I gave up after the first half hour because the combat was just
> impossible. I got through Battlespire but it was difficult -- they
> didn't include an easy combat setting.
>
> I don't think they realize that a lot of people actually LIKE easy
> combat and prefer to approach the games in a more exploratory,
> easygoing manner. I am terrible at twitchy fighting and can't play
> FPS games for that reason.
Yes, I for one am such a guy. I hate tough battles. I like RPG's more for
the questing storytelling and the graphics (exploring the environment etc.)

>
> I hope they won't make it so hard that those of us with slow reflexes
> won't be able to play and if they do there is truly "easy" setting.
>

I hoped they would create another morrowind game with better graphics (and
less CTD's :-( ).




> Alexa
>

Regards, Ron AF Greve
Anonymous
July 4, 2005 3:09:11 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.morrowind (More info?)

On Sun, 03 Jul 2005 13:20:19 -0500, alexa <xandbar@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

>I don't think they realize that a lot of people actually LIKE easy
>combat and prefer to approach the games in a more exploratory,
>easygoing manner. I am terrible at twitchy fighting and can't play
>FPS games for that reason.
>
>I hope they won't make it so hard that those of us with slow reflexes
>won't be able to play and if they do there is truly "easy" setting.

So long as they keep their word about modding ability, this shouldn't be
an insurmountable problem. I can see that 'Ring of Easy Mode' now, with
it's 50% damage resistance...
--
Greg Johnson
Give your child mental blocks for Christmas.
Anonymous
July 4, 2005 5:12:20 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.morrowind (More info?)

On Mon, 04 Jul 2005 11:09:11 +1000, Greg Johnson <greg.gsj@gmail.com>
wrote:

>So long as they keep their word about modding ability, this shouldn't be
>an insurmountable problem. I can see that 'Ring of Easy Mode' now, with
>it's 50% damage resistance...
>--
>Greg Johnson
>Give your child mental blocks for Christmas.


It bothers me because I just read an interview stating that the combat
will be twitch-controlled (as opposed to stat and/or slider
controlled). Blocking will be dependent on how well you move the
"block" key defensively and not the skill itself. Scoring a direct
hit with a weapon will be the same. I guess the stats will figure
into it somehow -- they would have to in order to matter -- although
they don't say exactly how. But they did say that you have to
manually block and hit successfully in order to succeed in combat.

You're right though. If it is too difficult I have no doubt some
modder with come up with a good work-around.

Alexa
Anonymous
July 5, 2005 12:21:27 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.morrowind (More info?)

alexa wrote:
> It bothers me because I just read an interview stating that the combat
> will be twitch-controlled (as opposed to stat and/or slider
> controlled). Blocking will be dependent on how well you move the
> "block" key defensively and not the skill itself. Scoring a direct
> hit with a weapon will be the same. I guess the stats will figure
> into it somehow -- they would have to in order to matter -- although
> they don't say exactly how. But they did say that you have to
> manually block and hit successfully in order to succeed in combat.

I've read in another interview that the players reaction will
decide upon hit or not, but the chars skills will decide how
much damage is done and how much stamina is used.

To be honest, i don't recall any "not hitting the monster when
i stand before it and swing at it" in Morrowind. Probably
"normal" is an too easy setting ;-)

I like to play FPS from time to time, but i don't need too
much action in an RPG ...
Anonymous
July 5, 2005 12:21:28 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.morrowind (More info?)

On Mon, 04 Jul 2005 20:21:27 +0200, Andreas Koch
<mail@kochandreas.com> wrote:

>To be honest, i don't recall any "not hitting the monster when
>i stand before it and swing at it" in Morrowind. Probably
>"normal" is an too easy setting ;-)

I can, and I also have the difficulty slider at the default. Try
taking a character with an Axe Skill at 7 and try swinging an axe at a
mudcrab. You will see many more misses than hits.
--
Nyctolops
Anonymous
July 6, 2005 12:38:02 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.morrowind (More info?)

I can't image a decent role playing game that used "twitch control".
But I have seen good role playing games that used player interaction as
a part of combat (Ultima Underworld comes to mind). As for jumping
puzzles, I found getting the magic axe out of the treestump in Seyda
Neen more than enough jumping. (and it is entirely optional)
Anonymous
July 6, 2005 3:37:04 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.morrowind (More info?)

"This is the quote that horrified me -- 'You must actively block with
your shield, then effectively swing (tap for standard attack, hold for
power attack, tap plus direction for slash, etc.)" "

That type of attack was what UWI used....but it was at what I'd call a
more thoughtful pace--not "twitch". MW already works somewhat this way
in that holding the attack key down longer before release makes for a
more powerful punch. And, you can play with the slash/thrust/etc
enabled if you want.

So, I wouldn't give up hope yet. If it is a tapfest, we'll all be
playing MW mods instead of Oblivion.
Anonymous
July 6, 2005 5:19:05 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.morrowind (More info?)

On 6 Jul 2005 08:38:02 -0700, "DeAnn" <diwan@mitre.org> wrote:

>I can't image a decent role playing game that used "twitch control".
>But I have seen good role playing games that used player interaction as
>a part of combat (Ultima Underworld comes to mind). As for jumping
>puzzles, I found getting the magic axe out of the treestump in Seyda
>Neen more than enough jumping. (and it is entirely optional)


This is the quote that horrified me -- 'You must actively block with
your shield, then effectively swing (tap for standard attack, hold for
power attack, tap plus direction for slash, etc.)"

This reminded me a lot of other games I've played with the dreaded
"combo moves". Here is me in that scenario...".let's see what move
should I make? What's that keycode again?" Meanwhile I have been
beaten to a bloody pulp and am near death. I get one hit in and the
creature finishes me off. My problem is I never could type in
ANYTHING without looking at the keys, lol.

Now this article was about the xbox version so it might be different
but I doubt it. I guess it wouldn't be so bad if you could program
some of the combo's to certain keys but if I have to memorize all
kinds of tap-tap-leftarrow, tap-tap-tap-right arro kinds of stuff I'm
really going to hate it.

alexa
Anonymous
July 6, 2005 11:27:05 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.morrowind (More info?)

alexa wrote:
> On 6 Jul 2005 08:38:02 -0700, "DeAnn" <diwan@mitre.org> wrote:
>
>
>>I can't image a decent role playing game that used "twitch control".
>>But I have seen good role playing games that used player interaction as
>>a part of combat (Ultima Underworld comes to mind). As for jumping
>>puzzles, I found getting the magic axe out of the treestump in Seyda
>>Neen more than enough jumping. (and it is entirely optional)
>
>
>
> This is the quote that horrified me -- 'You must actively block with
> your shield, then effectively swing (tap for standard attack, hold for
> power attack, tap plus direction for slash, etc.)"
>

Isn't this similar to the combat system in Arena and Daggerfall? You
had to move the mouse in the direction you wanted to attack and tap the
mouse key to swing. Thus you could move the mouse in a diagonal
direction to attack to a side from the top, or you could move the mouse
back and forth to stab.


> This reminded me a lot of other games I've played with the dreaded
> "combo moves". Here is me in that scenario...".let's see what move
> should I make? What's that keycode again?" Meanwhile I have been
> beaten to a bloody pulp and am near death. I get one hit in and the
> creature finishes me off. My problem is I never could type in
> ANYTHING without looking at the keys, lol.
>
> Now this article was about the xbox version so it might be different
> but I doubt it. I guess it wouldn't be so bad if you could program
> some of the combo's to certain keys but if I have to memorize all
> kinds of tap-tap-leftarrow, tap-tap-tap-right arro kinds of stuff I'm
> really going to hate it.
>
> alexa
Anonymous
July 7, 2005 3:38:57 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.morrowind (More info?)

On Wed, 06 Jul 2005 19:27:05 GMT, "Michael W. Ryder"
<_mwryder@worldnet.att.net> wrote:

>alexa wrote:

>> This is the quote that horrified me -- 'You must actively block with
>> your shield, then effectively swing (tap for standard attack, hold for
>> power attack, tap plus direction for slash, etc.)"
>>
>
>Isn't this similar to the combat system in Arena and Daggerfall? You
>had to move the mouse in the direction you wanted to attack and tap the
>mouse key to swing. Thus you could move the mouse in a diagonal
>direction to attack to a side from the top, or you could move the mouse
>back and forth to stab.
>
It doesn't sound like the Daggerfall system to me. For one thing,
there was no Blocking in Daggerfall at all. Your shield just added to
your overall armor rating. To attack in Daggerfall, you hold down the
right mouse key and move the mouse in the direction you want the
weapon to move. There was no key-tapping involved. This sounds like
a more complicated version of the Morrowind version of attack to me.
In Morrowind, if you don't go the "always use best attack" route, you
have to tap the movement keys to choose the type of attack you want,
then use the right mouse button to choose when to land the blow.
Blocking is automatic, if you have a shield equipped.

This sounds like it is getting into the "how fast can you hit the
right keys" type of thing that I really dislike in a game. I play
RPGs for fun, not to test my eye-hand coordination.
--
Nyctolops
Anonymous
July 7, 2005 10:29:32 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.morrowind (More info?)

Nyctolops wrote:
> On Wed, 06 Jul 2005 19:27:05 GMT, "Michael W. Ryder"
> <_mwryder@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>
>
>>alexa wrote:
>
>
>>>This is the quote that horrified me -- 'You must actively block with
>>>your shield, then effectively swing (tap for standard attack, hold for
>>>power attack, tap plus direction for slash, etc.)"
>>>
>>
>>Isn't this similar to the combat system in Arena and Daggerfall? You
>>had to move the mouse in the direction you wanted to attack and tap the
>>mouse key to swing. Thus you could move the mouse in a diagonal
>>direction to attack to a side from the top, or you could move the mouse
>>back and forth to stab.
>>
>
> It doesn't sound like the Daggerfall system to me. For one thing,
> there was no Blocking in Daggerfall at all. Your shield just added to
> your overall armor rating. To attack in Daggerfall, you hold down the
> right mouse key and move the mouse in the direction you want the
> weapon to move. There was no key-tapping involved. This sounds like
> a more complicated version of the Morrowind version of attack to me.
> In Morrowind, if you don't go the "always use best attack" route, you
> have to tap the movement keys to choose the type of attack you want,
> then use the right mouse button to choose when to land the blow.
> Blocking is automatic, if you have a shield equipped.
>
> This sounds like it is getting into the "how fast can you hit the
> right keys" type of thing that I really dislike in a game. I play
> RPGs for fun, not to test my eye-hand coordination.
> --
> Nyctolops


I was thinking more along the lines of you had to tell the computer how
you were attacking and when rather than the actual mechanics. Hopefully
blocking will be a simple key press and you can use the mouse for the
attacking. Maybe if you are blocking your swing is affected, so you
have the choice of not blocking a blow to get in a better attack or
blocking the blow and getting a weaker attack. It would be nice if you
could also move at the same time to try and dodge attacks and get a
better angle for your attacks.
I would like the option of maneuvers such as used in Revenant so you
could use fancy attacks if you want or just normal hack and slash. The
only real problem with a lot of the first person shooter type games is
that your hands can get real sore very quickly, but it would be nice to
be able to choose how you want to play combat, etc.
Anonymous
July 7, 2005 10:29:33 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.morrowind (More info?)

why dont we just wait for the game to come out before we start the
complaining
Anonymous
July 7, 2005 12:55:10 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.morrowind (More info?)

Some of us like to have one hand free for things like eating. :-)
Anonymous
July 7, 2005 6:13:04 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.morrowind (More info?)

On Thu, 7 Jul 2005 04:04:31 -0500, "Chris B"
<chrisbengivengo@comcast.net> wrote:

>why dont we just wait for the game to come out before we start the
>complaining

Not complaining....just curious to see how many others liked the MW
combat system the way it was. I've read a few articles now where the
devs seemed to think most people weren't happy with it. Maybe
that's true, I don't know.

alexa
Anonymous
July 7, 2005 6:19:27 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.morrowind (More info?)

On Thu, 07 Jul 2005 05:17:41 -0500, kendrick@eris.io.com (Kendrick
Kerwin Chua) wrote:

>Wasn't Morrowind a PC title through and through, and the Xbox port of it
>sort of an afterthought? The idea to make it an Xbox game was brilliant,
>and I don't think that anybody anticipated the popularity of the title
>just as a console game. I would speculate that the combat system tweaks
>are a result of this split platform design now, where the developers are
>making the game accessible to a wider audience who might not know that RPG
>doesn't always stand for 'rocket propelled grenade.' That it's going to be
>an Xbox 360 launch title must be both a blessing and a curse.


I'm sure you're right about the tweaks. I was really surprised when
Morrowind was such a hit on the xbox. I still don't really understand
it. But the new system is much more console-ish. I guess they stand
to make a lot more money on the xbox version than the pc version. I
read somewhere that the revenues for a console hit are much higher
than for a top-selling pc game. So it would stand to reason that they
might consolize it a bit more. Also, the console players can't have
mods (although I'm not sure if that's true for the 360), so the combat
needs to be challenging enough for everybody straight out of the box.

alexa
July 7, 2005 10:30:10 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.morrowind (More info?)

"Kendrick Kerwin Chua" <kendrick@eris.io.com> wrote in message
news:0_mdnQuu-N7YnFDfRVn-qw@io.com...

> I would speculate that the combat system tweaks
> are a result of this split platform design now, where the developers are
> making the game accessible to a wider audience who might not know that RPG
> doesn't always stand for 'rocket propelled grenade.'

I read an interview with Todd Howard in which he stated that the XBox title
outsold the PC title and that, yes, some of the planned changes are because
of that.
Anonymous
July 7, 2005 10:53:35 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.morrowind (More info?)

Chris B wrote:
> why dont we just wait for the game to come out before we start the
> complaining
>
>
I don't remember complaining at all. I did post some things I would
like done with the game. Unless the developers hear what works or
doesn't they will continue to develop to satisfy their desires rather
than the markets. I have played many games where the developer's
desires were so opposed to mine that I quickly quit playing the game.
Hardly the way to create brand loyalty.
Anonymous
July 7, 2005 10:53:36 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.morrowind (More info?)

On Thu, 07 Jul 2005 18:53:35 GMT, "Michael W. Ryder"
<_mwryder@worldnet.att.net> wrote:

> Unless the developers hear what works or
>doesn't they will continue to develop to satisfy their desires rather
>than the markets. I have played many games where the developer's
>desires were so opposed to mine that I quickly quit playing the game.
>Hardly the way to create brand loyalty.

I think this is true. When Battlespire first came out one of the devs
spent some time on an AOL message board -- they would never do that
today, I don't think. Anyway, everyone was upset because the game was
too hard and they hadn't included a difficulty slider or an easy
setting. He was really surprised by that and thought people wanted
ultra difficult combat. I think they do read the relevant newsgroups
from time to time....probably moreso the Bethesday message boards
though.

Speaking of complaints, has anyone tried Dungeon Lords. Like an idiot
I bought it before the reviews came out because the screenshots looked
slightly Morrowindish. Big mistake. They finally patched it and
added the missing automap so I'm going to try it again. I'm hoping it
will be playable now.

alexa
Anonymous
July 8, 2005 3:08:44 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.morrowind (More info?)

Chris B wrote:
> I love the game. Its the only one on my computer. I purchased a Radion 9800
> just so it would not lag as much, I bought an extra gig of memory so it
> would run even smother. 3ghz proccesor, Radion 9800 and 1.5 gigs of memory
> with the only other real program being photoshop make the game as smoth as
> glass.
Besides the border crossing loading delays, no?

I wish the Oblivion doesn't load anything if it runs on
a computer that has more RAM than the whole installation
needs disk-space :-)
Anonymous
July 8, 2005 3:08:45 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.morrowind (More info?)

Depends on what im doing, If im in noclip mode blazing across the map then I
notice the loading but at a steady walk, i normaly walk, I notice a quick
loading bar and thats it, just like walking through a interior door.
Anonymous
July 8, 2005 3:54:21 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.morrowind (More info?)

Some time between the hours of March 10th and Friday, Andreas Koch
<mail@kochandreas.com> committed the following:

> Hi all,
>
> just noticed the announciation of Oblivion (i'm not
> too actively watching for new games ;-)), read a bit
> about it, and want to write a few thoughts to discuss...
>
> -More action based combat system with "real blocking"

My immediate reaction to this is, "Eww, chrome."

Mind you, on the "Oblivion Wish List" fora that were gurgling around, I was
aghast at how people seemed to be obsessed with complicating the basic game
and world models beyond all reason. One person actually suggested that an
hour should be taken out of each game day to compensate for the time taken
to go to the bathroom. I'm not joking; that was an actual suggestion!

What *I* want to see in Oblivion is:
* *Far* less game world hard-coded into the engine.
* A significantly advanced scripting language, like a cross between C# and
Prolog (see above.)
* A modular approach to the interface, allowing for the user to pick and
choose how they interact with the world in much the same way as I can pick
and choose what MW plugins I run. (This last has obvious advantages with
porting to XStationCube.) This way, I can choose between manual and/or
skill-based combat, change crosshairs, use dropdown menus instead of clunky
boxes, whatever.
* A significantly improved sound engine that actually attentuates sounds,
and DSP to provide variation in voices (e.g. pitch shifting, wavering...)
--
Rev. Cardboard Box, slightly tilted, half melted
www.livejournal.com/users/revcardboardbox
I'd say more, but my braincells are humping my leg.
!