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Which is cheaper: refill inks or compatibles?

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Anonymous
August 7, 2005 7:05:58 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Can someone tell me, which is cheaper: refill inks or compatibles?

I've become a fan of compatibles, they're dirt cheap (well compared to
the original manufacturer ones).
I've always been against using refills because opening them up is a
messy process.
(Well... at least this is what had in mind, having never actually had a
go at doing it!!)

So... which is cheaper?
Is there a difference in results?

And... I've read that an ink cartridge should only be used X amount of
times before being replaced with the genuine model.
Is this true?
Why?
Why would it not be a good idea to buy a compatible ink cartridge?

Thanks.


OM

More about : cheaper refill inks compatibles

Anonymous
August 7, 2005 10:42:46 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Do you think it might be useful to a discussion to reveal the make and model
of your printer?

In general, refill is cheaper, and you usually have more control over what
kind of ink you get.



"OM" <om.newsgroup@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1123409158.869341.207340@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Can someone tell me, which is cheaper: refill inks or compatibles?
>
> I've become a fan of compatibles, they're dirt cheap (well compared to
> the original manufacturer ones).
> I've always been against using refills because opening them up is a
> messy process.
> (Well... at least this is what had in mind, having never actually had a
> go at doing it!!)
>
> So... which is cheaper?
> Is there a difference in results?
>
> And... I've read that an ink cartridge should only be used X amount of
> times before being replaced with the genuine model.
> Is this true?
> Why?
> Why would it not be a good idea to buy a compatible ink cartridge?
>
> Thanks.
>
>
> OM
>
Anonymous
August 7, 2005 12:02:00 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

> Do you think it might be useful to a discussion to reveal the make and model
> of your printer?
thanks for the reply.
i have a canon ip4000 and an epson cx5200.
Related resources
August 7, 2005 2:30:04 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

OM wrote:

>>Do you think it might be useful to a discussion to reveal the make and model
>>of your printer?
>
> thanks for the reply.
> i have a canon ip4000 and an epson cx5200.
>
I use only after market ink carts in my canon i9900 with excellent
results both in color and function (never had a clogged print head).
Strongly suggest you visit Neil Slade's site for good background info
and the Nifty forum which is a good discussion forum for people who
either use these products or seek information about using them.

http://www.neilslade.com/papers/inkjetstuff.html
http://www.nifty-stuff.com/forum

Pay no attention to our resident sicko troll who shouts at everything
that moves and yet never used any after market inks.
His is a troubled soul who knows nothing about inks or printers.
Frank
August 7, 2005 3:43:15 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

> Can someone tell me, which is cheaper: refill inks or compatibles?

Generally speaking bulk inks tend to be cheeper. As with all things
there are exceptions. Fro example the Canon BCI-3e runs about
$2000/gal if you go oem, where the color bci-6 run at about $3000/gal.
This is among the more cost effective solutions, $5000/gal is normal
for some HPs and epsons, and $10,000/gal is normal for low end lexmarks
like the free printer you get from dell.

Bulk inks start at about $150/gal for generic stuff, where $300/gal is
a normal base price for something matched to your printer. I have no
experence with solutions that cost higher than that, i'm not a
professional printer.

When talking the cost of bulk ink into account you do have to take into
account the cost the the carts. Some you "can" refill by poking a hole
in them. Others it's reccomended to buy refillable units for ease of
use. But even if you're spending $5.00 or $10.00 each. While this
should be taken into account the cost is so cheap you save hundrads of
dollars after printing with only a couple of ounces of ink.

Refilled carts tend to cost $5.00/each, perhaps as high as $15 to $20
for HP/Lexmark... in some cases less, so the cost savings is 50% to 66%
or so depending on your make and model.

> Is there a difference in results?

http://www.neilslade.com/Papers/inktest.html
Always... I don't know of a single case where a 3rd party solution was
100% identical. I imagine it's possible if the OEM decided to actually
sell their exact formula on the bulk market. Whether you notice it or
like it is good question.

> And... I've read that an ink cartridge should only be used X amount of
> times before being replaced with the genuine model.
> Is this true?

This could be true for carts that have the nozzles on board and you
were refilling them. They were not designed to last a long time, they
were designed to be disposable. I don't see this true if your buying
prefills.

> Why would it not be a good idea to buy a compatible ink cartridge?

>From what i've read... there is a failure rate of sub 1% among
pre-fills. Less so for ones that are simple ink tanks with foam on the
inside... even less so for ones that are just plastic and empty air. A
good dealer knows this and will replace them without question.

There is a remote possiblity the different ink could affect your
printerhead life in the cases of ink tanks. In the case of the Canon
the replacement costs slightly less than the printer in most cases,
Epson unless you are very skilled it costs as much as the printer.
Anonymous
August 7, 2005 4:14:40 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

You can refill the Canon for well under $1 per tank.


"OM" <om.newsgroup@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1123426920.277999.78510@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> > Do you think it might be useful to a discussion to reveal the make and
model
> > of your printer?
> thanks for the reply.
> i have a canon ip4000 and an epson cx5200.
>
Anonymous
August 7, 2005 7:02:17 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

OEM IS CHEAPER IN THE LONG RUN IF YOU DO NOT PRINT MUCH SINCE YOU WILL
NOT CLOG YOUR PRINTHEAD.

OM wrote:

>Can someone tell me, which is cheaper: refill inks or compatibles?
>
>I've become a fan of compatibles, they're dirt cheap (well compared to
>the original manufacturer ones).
>I've always been against using refills because opening them up is a
>messy process.
>(Well... at least this is what had in mind, having never actually had a
>go at doing it!!)
>
>So... which is cheaper?
>Is there a difference in results?
>
>And... I've read that an ink cartridge should only be used X amount of
>times before being replaced with the genuine model.
>Is this true?
>Why?
>Why would it not be a good idea to buy a compatible ink cartridge?
>
>Thanks.
>
>
>OM
>
>
>
Anonymous
August 7, 2005 7:02:18 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

measekite wrote:
> OEM IS CHEAPER IN THE LONG RUN IF YOU DO NOT PRINT MUCH SINCE YOU WILL
> NOT CLOG YOUR PRINTHEAD.
>

"OEM is cheaper in the long run", Measekite shouts.

"SPONGEBOB ECONOMICS" from Measekite, as usual.

In the real world here in Canada, just 6 sets of Canon OEM cartridges
cost as much as 6 new Canon printers (iP4000) with cartridges. In other
words, $774 CDN.

On the other hand, 6 sets of compatible cartridges in Canada can be had
for about $150. Sorry, "BUT IN THE LONG RUN" I prefer to have the $624
difference in cost sitting in my wallet. However, in Measekite's
narrow-minded world he seems to think that if I buy OEM ink and spend
$624 MORE FOR INK than I really have to that it's some kind of twisted
long term money saving plan. No, it's total deficit. The money would
go to Canon, not me.

And from following this newsgroup for years I have noticed absolutely
no difference in clogging numbers between OEM and non-OEM inks. I use
non-OEM inks exclusively in two printers, moderate use. The simple fact
is that ANY printer will clog if not used on a regular basis, regardless
of brand of ink used. What is "regular basis?" It varies with your home
environment. But perhaps when you start requiring head cleanings, that
would be a sign that it is being under used.

-Taliesyn
August 7, 2005 8:15:44 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

"OM" <om.newsgroup@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1123409158.869341.207340@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Can someone tell me, which is cheaper: refill inks or compatibles?
>
> I've become a fan of compatibles, they're dirt cheap (well compared to
> the original manufacturer ones).
> I've always been against using refills because opening them up is a
> messy process.
> (Well... at least this is what had in mind, having never actually had a
> go at doing it!!)
>
> So... which is cheaper?
> Is there a difference in results?
>
> And... I've read that an ink cartridge should only be used X amount of
> times before being replaced with the genuine model.
> Is this true?
> Why?
> Why would it not be a good idea to buy a compatible ink cartridge?
>
> Thanks.
>
>
> OM

Dan G is right that you have more assurance as to the source of the
aftermarket ink when buying bulk and refilling. Cheaper also. You can keep
refilling the cartridge until it doesn't function properly. Some people
have also figured out how to make a cartridge that doesn't work well after
several refills work again. You can also buy empty cartridges and refill
them. I have experience with Canon aftermarket inks but not with Epson.

Pay no attention to our newsgroup resident troll who rants against all
aftermarket inks and tells you they will all clog your printer.He always
warns people against using these products even though he has no experience
with them. He will undoubtedly follow this message with more of his
shouting and nonsense. I have killfiled him. Many of us on this newsgroup
use aftermarket inks successfully.

Please read the following websites and see what other people are using.
It is important to be very selective about
which cartridges and inks you use and it is best to get advice from others
who can, from their own experience, recommend a specific product. I, and
several others, refill cartridges with one of three inks that are available
online - MIS, ormulabs bulk ink from Alotofthings, and Hobbicolors available
on ebay. Neil Slade's site is good background info and the Nifty
forum is a good discussion forum for people who either use these products or
want information on using them. It is primarily about Canon printers, but
others are discussed as well.
http://www.neilslade.com/papers/inkjetstuff.html

http://www.nifty-stuff.com/forum/


>
>


>
Anonymous
August 7, 2005 8:47:13 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Burt wrote:

>"OM" <om.newsgroup@gmail.com> wrote in message
>news:1123409158.869341.207340@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>>Can someone tell me, which is cheaper: refill inks or compatibles?
>>
>>I've become a fan of compatibles, they're dirt cheap (well compared to
>>the original manufacturer ones).
>>I've always been against using refills because opening them up is a
>>messy process.
>>(Well... at least this is what had in mind, having never actually had a
>>go at doing it!!)
>>
>>So... which is cheaper?
>>Is there a difference in results?
>>
>>And... I've read that an ink cartridge should only be used X amount of
>>times before being replaced with the genuine model.
>>Is this true?
>>Why?
>>Why would it not be a good idea to buy a compatible ink cartridge?
>>
>>Thanks.
>>
>>
>>OM
>>
>>
>
>Dan G is right that you have more assurance as to the source of the
>aftermarket ink when buying bulk and refilling.
>

SEE! YOU HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT THE SOURCE. THIS IS ALL BULLSHIT.
AFTERMARKET INKS ARE AND REMAIN A MYSTERY. YOU NEVER KNOW WHAT YOU ARE
GETTING.

>Cheaper also. You can keep
>refilling the cartridge until it doesn't function properly. Some people
>have also figured out how to make a cartridge that doesn't work well after
>several refills work again.
>

WHAT A WASTE OF TIME.

>You can also buy empty cartridges and refill
>them. I have experience with Canon aftermarket inks but not with Epson.
>
>Pay no attention to our newsgroup resident troll who rants against all
>aftermarket inks and tells you they will all clog your printer.
>

THEY CERTAINLY WILL.

>He always
>warns people against using these products even though he has no experience
>with them. He will undoubtedly follow this message with more of his
>shouting and nonsense. I have killfiled him.
>

BUT HE REAMINS UPPER MOST IN HIS MIND AS YOU CAN SEE.

>Many of us on this newsgroup
>use aftermarket inks successfully.
>
>

BUT THE MAJORITY HAVE TROUBLE.

> Please read the following websites and see what other people are using.
>It is important to be very selective about
>which cartridges and inks you use and it is best to get advice from others
>who can, from their own experience, recommend a specific product. I, and
>several others, refill cartridges with one
>

> Neil Slade's site is good background info and the Nifty
>forum
>

HE IS THE MODERATOR THERE UNDER THE NAME PHOTOFREEK.. YOU DIDN'T THINK
YOU COULD GET OBJECTIVE INFORMATION FROM A CLUB HE MODERATES DID YOU????????

>is a good discussion forum for people who either use these products or
>want information on using them. It is primarily about Canon printers, but
>others are discussed as well.
>http://www.neilslade.com/papers/inkjetstuff.html
>
>http://www.nifty-stuff.com/forum/
>
>
>
>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Anonymous
August 8, 2005 5:43:13 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

In article <ZnpJe.325$zr1.82@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com>,
inkystinky@oem.com says...
> NOT USING YOUR PRINTER AT ALL IS CHEAPER IN THE LONG RUN SINCE YOU WILL
> NOT CLOG YOUR PRINTHEAD.
>
Good quality refills cost from 30 to 90 cents per refill, if you do them
yourself. The math is pretty self evident. (Except to inkystinky, who
has an intrinsic fear of such things).
Anonymous
August 8, 2005 5:46:24 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

In article <lWqJe.1216$zr1.943@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com>,
inkystinky@oem.com says...
>

> SEE! YOU HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT THE SOURCE. THIS IS ALL BULLSHIT.
> AFTERMARKET INKS ARE AND REMAIN A MYSTERY. YOU NEVER KNOW WHAT YOU ARE
> GETTING.
>
Sounds like inkystinky gets his printer info from Forrest Gump.
Anonymous
August 8, 2005 6:19:00 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

In article <ZnpJe.325$zr1.82@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com>,
inkystinky@oem.com (measekite the troll) wrote:

> OEM IS CHEAPER IN THE LONG RUN IF YOU DO NOT PRINT MUCH SINCE YOU WILL
> NOT CLOG YOUR PRINTHEAD.

Clogging has very little to do with whether you use third-party or
the printer manufacturers ink. All the evidence suggests the it has far
more to do with the environment in which the printer is stored and the
way it is used.

I suggest you check back through previous messages posted by this troll,
OM, before considering whether to give his rantings any credence. He has
never used third-party inks and has no idea what he's talking about.

Jon.
Anonymous
August 8, 2005 6:19:00 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

In article <lWqJe.1216$zr1.943@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com>,
inkystinky@oem.com (measekite the sociopathic troll) wrote:

>>Many of us on this newsgroup
>>use aftermarket inks successfully.

> BUT THE MAJORITY HAVE TROUBLE.

An unsubstantiated assertion. There is absolutely no evidence to suggest
that that's true and it's entirely contrary to the impression of all the
regular newsgroup users who have commented on this claim.

Jon.
Anonymous
August 8, 2005 10:17:04 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Frank wrote:

> OM wrote:
>
>>> Do you think it might be useful to a discussion to reveal the make
>>> and model
>>> of your printer?
>>
>>
>> thanks for the reply.
>> i have a canon ip4000 and an epson cx5200.
>>
> I use only after market ink carts in my canon i9900 with excellent
> results both in color and function (never had a clogged print head).
> Strongly suggest you visit Neil Slade's site for good background info
> and the Nifty forum which is a good discussion forum for people who
> either use these products or seek information about using them.


He is a member of the fotofreek church on the nifty site.

>
> http://www.neilslade.com/papers/inkjetstuff.html
> http://www.nifty-stuff.com/forum
>
> Pay no attention to our resident sicko troll who shouts at everything
> that moves and yet never used any after market inks.
> His is a troubled soul who knows nothing about inks or printers.
> Frank

Pay no attention to our resident sicko troll who shouts at everything
that moves and yet never used any after market inks.
His is a troubled soul who knows nothing about inks or printers.

>
>
Anonymous
August 8, 2005 10:18:29 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Taliesyn wrote:

> measekite wrote:
>
>> OEM IS CHEAPER IN THE LONG RUN IF YOU DO NOT PRINT MUCH SINCE YOU
>> WILL NOT CLOG YOUR PRINTHEAD.
>>
>
> "OEM is cheaper in the long run", Measekite shouts.
>
> "SPONGEBOB ECONOMICS" from Measekite, as usual.
>
> In the real world here in Canada, just 6 sets of Canon OEM cartridges
> cost as much as 6 new Canon printers (iP4000) with cartridges. In other
> words, $774 CDN


The real world is not there.

>
>
> On the other hand, 6 sets of compatible cartridges in Canada can be had
> for about $150. Sorry, "BUT IN THE LONG RUN" I prefer to have the $624
> difference in cost sitting in my wallet. However, in Measekite's
> narrow-minded world he seems to think that if I buy OEM ink and spend
> $624 MORE FOR INK than I really have to that it's some kind of twisted
> long term money saving plan. No, it's total deficit. The money would
> go to Canon, not me.
>
> And from following this newsgroup for years I have noticed absolutely
> no difference in clogging numbers

Bullshit

> between OEM and non-OEM inks. I use
> non-OEM inks exclusively in two printers, moderate use. The simple fact
> is that ANY printer will clog if not used on a regular basis, regardless
> of brand of ink used. What is "regular basis?" It varies with your
> home environment. But perhaps when you start requiring head cleanings,
> that would be a sign that it is being under used.
>
> -Taliesyn
Anonymous
August 8, 2005 7:43:52 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

SOUNDS LIKE PECKERBLOOMER HAS THE IQ OF FOREST GUMP.

Irwin Peckinloomer wrote:

>In article <lWqJe.1216$zr1.943@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com>,
>inkystinky@oem.com says...
>
>
>
>
>
>>SEE! YOU HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT THE SOURCE. THIS IS ALL BULLSHIT.
>>AFTERMARKET INKS ARE AND REMAIN A MYSTERY. YOU NEVER KNOW WHAT YOU ARE
>>GETTING.
>>
>>
>>
>Sounds like inkystinky gets his printer info from Forrest Gump.
>
>
Anonymous
August 8, 2005 9:27:12 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Read Consumer Reports. They have had reviews of refills and compatibles. In
general they don't recommend either but they do have good info on the best
(and worst).

JohnP

"OM" <om.newsgroup@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1123409158.869341.207340@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Can someone tell me, which is cheaper: refill inks or compatibles?
>
> I've become a fan of compatibles, they're dirt cheap (well compared to
> the original manufacturer ones).
> I've always been against using refills because opening them up is a
> messy process.
> (Well... at least this is what had in mind, having never actually had a
> go at doing it!!)
>
> So... which is cheaper?
> Is there a difference in results?
>
> And... I've read that an ink cartridge should only be used X amount of
> times before being replaced with the genuine model.
> Is this true?
> Why?
> Why would it not be a good idea to buy a compatible ink cartridge?
>
> Thanks.
>
>
> OM
>
August 8, 2005 9:27:13 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

John Pezzano wrote:
> Read Consumer Reports. They have had reviews of refills and compatibles. In
> general they don't recommend either but they do have good info on the best
> (and worst).

<------------------------------------------------------------->


That's all well and good but you must also read the many positive
reviews from experienced users such as myself that have been and
continue to be posted in this ng.
The only oem ink carts I have used over the last approximately 10yrs
have been the ones that originally came with the printer when purchased
new. After that I use only after market inks without...let me repeat
that... WITHOUT...any color or head clogging problems whatsoever.
There must be hundred of thousands of users with positive experiences
just like mine.
Otherwise these suppliers of after market inks, refills and empty carts
would cease to exist according to the economic laws and forces of a free
market.
Frank
Anonymous
August 9, 2005 2:11:15 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

John Pezzano wrote:

>Read Consumer Reports. They have had reviews of refills and compatibles. In
>general they don't recommend either but they do have good info on the best
>(and worst).
>
>

Yeah they say you can get a clogged printhead, faded prints, and poor
colors.

All of the above

>JohnP
>
>"OM" <om.newsgroup@gmail.com> wrote in message
>news:1123409158.869341.207340@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>>Can someone tell me, which is cheaper: refill inks or compatibles?
>>
>>I've become a fan of compatibles, they're dirt cheap (well compared to
>>the original manufacturer ones).
>>I've always been against using refills because opening them up is a
>>messy process.
>>(Well... at least this is what had in mind, having never actually had a
>>go at doing it!!)
>>
>>So... which is cheaper?
>>Is there a difference in results?
>>
>>And... I've read that an ink cartridge should only be used X amount of
>>times before being replaced with the genuine model.
>>Is this true?
>>Why?
>>Why would it not be a good idea to buy a compatible ink cartridge?
>>
>>Thanks.
>>
>>
>>OM
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
August 9, 2005 5:21:35 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

> He fails to realize that he (or anyone else who chooses to do so), can
> recover the cost of the printer in 2 refills, with no increase in risk
> of clogging (in my 8 years of experience refilling, vs. his 0
> experience)

Sounds reasonable... let's check that... using the ip4000 as a
reference... mis refill kit.

$39.95 plus shipping of 4.90 fex-ex ground. total $54.85

2oz of ink each color.. 28.375/oz = 56.75ml... 5 colors = 283.75ml or
an average price of 0.1933c/ml... this cost includes syrenges,
refillable carts at $5.00 per, and a glove.

The black contains 25ml and costs $4.8325 to refill using this kit
Each color contains 15ml and costs $2.8995 by 4 $11.598

You get 2.27 refills of pigment black
you get 3.78 refills of pigment black

Canon OEM inks cost $13.00 for the pigmented black
$11.50 /color or $46 for a set. Grand total of $59.00

The kit value of only 2oz of ink/each represents $29.51 in pigmented
black inks, $178.88 in color inks for a total of $203.39.

Conclusion... given you save $148.54 based on my estimates... even
paying for refillable tanks, syrenges, a glove or two, ink and
shipping. The savings would be higher if you bought more ink at a
time, and didn't buy refillable tanks each time. Even if you clog after
using 2oz of ink... and have to buy either a head valued at $60 or a
new printer at $120... you still save money.

But is irwin's statement correct that one can recover the cost of the
printer in two refills?
$26 of black $23 color * 4 = 92 total $118.
50ml black... 15ml color *4 = 90ml color
0.1933c/ml
50ml black = $9.665
90ml colors = $17.397
--------------------------------
$27.062

$118-$27.062 = $90.938 savings after two refills

Compusa price of the ip4000.... $100.00 or $80.00 with a rebate.

Sorry irwin... unless you get a rebate or sell off the oem inks that
came with the printer, assuming the cost of the ink refill kit at mis
it would take exactly 2.2 refills to equal the cost of a new printer,
and not 2. However, if you already own syrenges, and a hot glue gun...
you would could be very much correct in all likelyhood.

But given that you don't have to replace the whole printer, just the
printhead, which is valued at about $60, this would make your statement
very much true.
August 9, 2005 5:26:36 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

"John Pezzano" <jpezz@myway.com> wrote in message
news:78056$42f7ce2d$498661d$32323@DIALUPUSA.NET...
> Read Consumer Reports. They have had reviews of refills and compatibles.
> In general they don't recommend either but they do have good info on the
> best (and worst).

(snip)

John - Have you tried any of the aftermarket inks or spoken to anyone who
has? Consumers is correct in that you have to be very selective with these
products. I've read every issue of Consumers Reports for more than 20
years and also gone online to their site and read the info there as well.
None of the brands they covered are those that are reported as being used
successfully on this ng, Neil Slade's site, or the Nifty forum (a site that
deals most with aftermarket inks and computer maintenance). As far as I can
tell, they reviewed aftermarket cartridges that are available in the large
office supply stores. generally, the aftermarket carts at these stores are
too close in price to the OEM carts to bother. There was no review of the
bulk inks, used for refilling that have been reported on this NG, Slade's
site, or Nifty-stuff forum. A few quotes from the 09/05 dated online
reference to aftermarket inks:
"A FEW GOOD INKS Printpal (OA100), Carrot Ink, and Amazon Imaging did well,
but other off-brands were worse than brand names, and no cheaper."

"Some off-brands produced very good photos at a slightly lower per-print
cost than the brand names. They'd be smart choices when economy is more
important than excellent photo quality. Off-brands have more to offer for
printing text. With some off-brands, you can get excellent black text at a
good price."


"These and other findings are the results of a four-month study for which we
bought more than 500 inkjet cartridges across the U.S., and produced more
than 35,000 prints on printers from three of the top inkjet printer brands."

Although I have great respect for Consumers, my experience tells me that
these articles are somewhat misleading. The best inks that have been
reported by experienced users, myself included, on this NG are bulk inks by
MIS, Hobbicolors, or Formulabs (from Alotofthings). Although they do
require the user refilling OEM or aftermarket cartridges or filling empty
cartridges that are available online, they produce excellent results. In my
case I refill cartridges with MIS bulk inks and get excellent photo quality.
I have compared these prints side-by-side with the same files printed with
OEM ink on the same printer and the MIS prints are equal in appearance to
the OEM prints. One year of use with moderate printing loads and I've had
NO clogging. Refilling is fast and easy, and the mess is minimal. Ron Cohen
and Taliesyn report the same with Formulabs inks and Stevelee reports
excellent results with Hobbicolors bulk inks and their empty cartridges.
Frank has reported excellent results with aftermarket inks.

Some users of aftermarket prefilled cartridges (at much lower cost than
those that Consumers reported on) have had good results and some have not.
Neil Slade and Nifty-Stuff sites have lots of info on both aftermarket
prefilled carts and bulk inks that have been used successfully.

There is only one person who posts messages on this NG who knocks all these
products and refilling. He has had NO (read ZERO) experience with the
products, refilling, or the vendors who sell them. Easy to recognize his
messages as he has forgotten how to print in lower case and posts derogatory
oneliners about anyone with whom he disagrees. Best to killfile him as I
have.
Anonymous
August 9, 2005 8:27:25 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Burt wrote:

>"John Pezzano" <jpezz@myway.com> wrote in message
>news:78056$42f7ce2d$498661d$32323@DIALUPUSA.NET...
>
>
>>Read Consumer Reports. They have had reviews of refills and compatibles.
>>In general they don't recommend either but they do have good info on the
>>best (and worst).
>>
>>
>
>(snip)
>
>John - Have you tried any of the aftermarket inks or spoken to anyone who
>has?
>

He does not want a clog churchie

>Consumers is correct in that you have to be very selective with these
>products. I've read every issue of Consumers Reports for more than 20
>years and also gone online to their site and read the info there as well.
>None of the brands
>

Hey jerkm there are not BRANDS. All of the vendors who sell aftermarket
ink will not tell you what they are selling you and will never tell you
when changes occurr. They just like to misrepresent directly or
indirectly by ommission.

>they covered are those that are reported as being used
>successfully on this ng, Neil Slade's
>

Hey fotofreek is the moderator there. That is you Burtie Furtie.
Nobody will ever get the truth there.

>site, or the Nifty forum (a site that
>deals most with aftermarket inks and computer maintenance). As far as I can
>tell, they reviewed aftermarket cartridges that are available in the large
>office supply stores. generally, the aftermarket carts at these stores are
>too close in price to the OEM carts to bother. There was no review of the
>bulk inks, used for refilling that have been reported on this NG, Slade's
>site, or Nifty-stuff forum.
>

The moderator will tell you.

>A few quotes from the 09/05 dated online
>reference to aftermarket inks:
>"A FEW GOOD INKS Printpal (OA100), Carrot Ink, and Amazon Imaging did well,
>but other off-brands were worse than brand names, and no cheaper."
>
>

NON OF THE ABOVE ARE BRANDED. THEY ARE UNBRANDED GENERIC INKS THAT ARE
GIVEN A LABEL BY THE PERSON WHO SELLS THEM. WHY I COULD MARKET THEM IF
I WANT AND CALL THEM INKY STINKY. I GUESS IF I DID THE CHURCH MEMBERS
WOULD TOUT THEM AS WELL.

>"Some off-brands produced very good photos at a slightly lower per-print
>cost than the brand names.
>

THERE ARE NO BRAND NAMES OTHER THAN CANON, EPSON, AND HP.

>They'd be smart choices when economy is more
>important than excellent photo quality. Off-brands have more to offer for
>printing text. With some off-brands, you can get excellent black text at a
>good price."
>
>
>"These and other findings are the results of a four-month study for which we
>bought more than 500 inkjet cartridges across the U.S., and produced more
>than 35,000 prints on printers from three of the top inkjet printer brands."
>
>Although I have great respect for Consumers, my experience tells me that
>these articles are not misleading.
>

SNIPIDE DO DA

> Although they do
>require the user refilling OEM or aftermarket cartridges
>
AND WHAT A PAIN IN THE ASS IT IS

>or filling empty
>cartridges that are available online, they produce excellent results. In my
>case I refill cartridges with
>

SNIP

>bulk inks and get excellent photo quality.
>I have compared these prints side-by-side with the same files printed with
>OEM ink on the same printer and the MIS prints are equal in appearance to
>the OEM prints.
>
>
>
>There is only one person who posts messages on this NG who knocks all these
>products and refilling.
>
JUST LIKE YOU - I READ THE FOLLOWING

CONSUMER REPORTS
PC WORLD
PC MAGAZINE
MANY FORUMS AND NEWSGROUPS

WHERE PEOPLE HAVE HAD MANY PRINTER PROBLEMS INCLUDING CLOGGING.

THE ONLY JUSTIFICATION THAT I CAN THINK OF FOR PUTTING UP WITH THE
WHORES IN THIS INDUSTRY AND RISK A CLOGGED PRINT HEAD IS IF YOUR PRINT
LOAD IS SO VERY HIGH THAT YOU CAN RECOVER THE COST OF THE PRINTER BEFORE
IT CLOGS.

>
>
>
>
Anonymous
August 9, 2005 8:27:26 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

In article <NgWJe.948$dk5.572@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com>,
inkystinky@oem.com says... Bizarrely:
>
> THERE ARE NO BRAND NAMES OTHER THAN CANON, EPSON, AND HP.

Words of a "true believer" hence the jihad against all aftermarket inks.
>
then, inkystinky@oem.com says... with no thought at all, says:

>
> THE ONLY JUSTIFICATION THAT I CAN THINK OF FOR PUTTING UP WITH THE
> WHORES IN THIS INDUSTRY AND RISK A CLOGGED PRINT HEAD IS IF YOUR PRINT
> LOAD IS SO VERY HIGH THAT YOU CAN RECOVER THE COST OF THE PRINTER BEFORE
> IT CLOGS.
>
He fails to realize that he (or anyone else who chooses to do so), can
recover the cost of the printer in 2 refills, with no increase in risk
of clogging (in my 8 years of experience refilling, vs. his 0
experience)
Anonymous
August 9, 2005 11:11:18 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

"zakezuke" <zakezuke_us@yahoo.com> wrote in news:1123575695.906758.196240
@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:

>> He fails to realize that he (or anyone else who chooses to do so), can
>> recover the cost of the printer in 2 refills, with no increase in risk
>> of clogging (in my 8 years of experience refilling, vs. his 0
>> experience)
>
>
(edited)

> Compusa price of the ip4000.... $100.00 or $80.00 with a rebate.
>


Up here in Canada we can now buy an iP4000 with 5 new cartridges included
for the same amount as 5 new cartridges alone! . . . Hence the old saying,
"They give you the printer and grab you by the tentacles (typo!) when you try
to buy an ounce of ink." Even braindead Measekite can see the pimping attempt
here from the printer maker to get you hooked on their product.

Everyone keeps crying about the price of oil per barrel. Has anyone calculated
the price of OEM ink "per barrel"? Close to a million dollars? Can someone
do the math here. I can't, it's too early in the morning. Anyway, my cyan just
flashed that it's low. Time to buy a new printer! <Linda>
August 9, 2005 7:02:08 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

>Everyone keeps crying about the price of oil per barrel. Has anyone calculated
>the price of OEM ink "per barrel"? Close to a million dollars? Can someone
>do the math here. I can't, it's too early in the morning. Anyway, my cyan just
>flashed that it's low. Time to buy a new printer!

Nah, only low end lexmarks cost a million dollars/barrel, and even then
it's only the color ink that costs that much. We are talking about a
product that sells for thousands of dollars a gallon, where $2000 is
the bottom of the barrel so to speak, $5000 is somewhat average, and
$10,000/gal is spendy.

What is the volume of liquid an oil barrel? Is it 42gal or 55gal? I
think it's 42gal or 158.984 liters.

Burt pointed out I was wrong on the BCI-6 volume. I thought 15ml, he
says 14ml.

-USD-
Canon BCI-6 158,984 ml ($11.50/14ml) = $130,594
Canon BCI-3e 158,984 ml ($13.00/25ml) = $82,671.68

Epson T048x20 color (not black) 158,984 ml ($11.50/13ml) =$140,117.77
epson T048120 black (yes black) 158,984 ml ($17.00/14ml) =$193,052.00

Lexmark 10N0016 (#16) black 158,984 ml ($33.00/16ml) = $398,169.75
Lexmark 10N0026 (#26) color 158,984 ml ($35.00/*5ml) = $1,112,888.00

*15.5ml total volume for 3 colors for the high yield color #25 cart.

So... we now know the price of ink per barrel costs more than cars.
The cost may or may not be equal to a house depending on your market.
August 9, 2005 8:22:40 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

"zakezuke" <zakezuke_us@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1123575695.906758.196240@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>> He fails to realize that he (or anyone else who chooses to do so), can
>> recover the cost of the printer in 2 refills, with no increase in risk
>> of clogging (in my 8 years of experience refilling, vs. his 0
>> experience)
>
> Sounds reasonable... let's check that... using the ip4000 as a
> reference... mis refill kit.
>
> $39.95 plus shipping of 4.90 fex-ex ground. total $54.85
>
> 2oz of ink each color.. 28.375/oz = 56.75ml... 5 colors = 283.75ml or
> an average price of 0.1933c/ml... this cost includes syrenges,
> refillable carts at $5.00 per, and a glove.
>
> The black contains 25ml and costs $4.8325 to refill using this kit
> Each color contains 15ml and costs $2.8995 by 4 $11.598
>
> You get 2.27 refills of pigment black
> you get 3.78 refills of pigment black
>
> Canon OEM inks cost $13.00 for the pigmented black
> $11.50 /color or $46 for a set. Grand total of $59.00
>
> The kit value of only 2oz of ink/each represents $29.51 in pigmented
> black inks, $178.88 in color inks for a total of $203.39.
>
> Conclusion... given you save $148.54 based on my estimates... even
> paying for refillable tanks, syrenges, a glove or two, ink and
> shipping. The savings would be higher if you bought more ink at a
> time, and didn't buy refillable tanks each time. Even if you clog after
> using 2oz of ink... and have to buy either a head valued at $60 or a
> new printer at $120... you still save money.
>
> But is irwin's statement correct that one can recover the cost of the
> printer in two refills?
> $26 of black $23 color * 4 = 92 total $118.
> 50ml black... 15ml color *4 = 90ml color
> 0.1933c/ml
> 50ml black = $9.665
> 90ml colors = $17.397
> --------------------------------
> $27.062
>
> $118-$27.062 = $90.938 savings after two refills
>
> Compusa price of the ip4000.... $100.00 or $80.00 with a rebate.
>
> Sorry irwin... unless you get a rebate or sell off the oem inks that
> came with the printer, assuming the cost of the ink refill kit at mis
> it would take exactly 2.2 refills to equal the cost of a new printer,
> and not 2. However, if you already own syrenges, and a hot glue gun...
> you would could be very much correct in all likelyhood.
>
> But given that you don't have to replace the whole printer, just the
> printhead, which is valued at about $60, this would make your statement
> very much true.

Zake - I think the savings is actually a bit greater than you projected. I
thought that the OEM bci-6 carts had 14 ml. of ink (I don't mean to split
hairs!) and when the warning comes up to change carts you still have a few
ml of ink in the sponge that are unusable. I actually don't know what the
quantity of ink is that remains in the sponge when you discard the spent
cartridge and replace it with another OEM cart, but at nearly $1 per ml it
is significant in calculating savings. Remember also that when refilling
you don't throw away the last few ml of ink in the cart but simply add to it
which gives you the equivalent of a new cart with around 10 to 12 ml. of
refill ink. I haven't measured the amount of ink that is used to fill the
entire reservoir area, but I think it is around 8 to 10 ml. That includes
the ink that soaks into the sponge as you are refilling. I never let the
reservoir get below 3/4 empty, so I don't know the exact amount it will
hold. Bottom line - I think you will get the eqivalent of 5 refills for
the bci-6 cart due to the remainder of ink left in the sponge at the time
each refill is done. This pretty much doubles your savings projection.
>
August 9, 2005 9:15:09 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

"Burt" <sfbjgNOSPAM@pacbell.net> wrote in message
news:kL4Ke.2906$zr1.937@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...
> "zakezuke" <zakezuke_us@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:1123575695.906758.196240@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>>> He fails to realize that he (or anyone else who chooses to do so), can
>>> recover the cost of the printer in 2 refills, with no increase in risk
>>> of clogging (in my 8 years of experience refilling, vs. his 0
>>> experience)
>>
>> Sounds reasonable... let's check that... using the ip4000 as a
>> reference... mis refill kit.
>>
>> $39.95 plus shipping of 4.90 fex-ex ground. total $54.85

(snip)

OOPS - I failed to notice that your calculator goofed by $10, further
skewing the comparison. Also, once you have the syringes and cartridges the
ink costs only $5 per 2 oz container for a total of $25, $30 with shipping,
for the ip4000. By my calculations you get 4 to 5 refills per 2 oz.
container (remember the residual ink in the sponge that is thrown away using
OEM only) and that equals 20 to 25 refills for $30. Conservitavely speaking
then, 20 OEM carts retail cost is about $250 with tax (california) and
refilling is $30 for a minimum savings of $220. Even when purchased at
Costco (remember our resident troll's favorite store) at $9 per cart plus
tax the 20 OEM carts would cost about $195 for a savings of $165. That's a
conservative estimate as I believe you get more than the equivalent of 20
refills out of the 5 - 2 oz. containers. At 5 refills of 11+ ml. each you
save over $200 as compared to the Costco price (with tax) or almost $300 as
compared to retail (about $13, including tax.) The original set of carts
that come with the printer can support more than 5 refills. Additional
carts, either empty @ about $5 or prefilled and refillable @ anywhere from
less than $3 up, should be added to the cost projection as you pointed out,
but this only adds less than $30 per set for each 2 oz. set of bulk inks.
Also as you point out, buying larger containers increases the savings.

Zake - You are to be commended for making an effort to be even more
conservative in your savings projection in this ongoing "discussion." It
would be inappropriate to inflate the savings to try to make the financial
benefit appear greater than it really is. Nonetheless, I believe my figures
are closer to the real savings.
Anonymous
August 9, 2005 11:29:16 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

"measekite" <inkystinky@oem.com> wrote in message
news:NgWJe.948$dk5.572@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...
>
>
> Burt wrote:
>
>>"John Pezzano" <jpezz@myway.com> wrote in message
>>news:78056$42f7ce2d$498661d$32323@DIALUPUSA.NET...
>>
>>>Read Consumer Reports. They have had reviews of refills and compatibles.
>>>In general they don't recommend either but they do have good info on the
>>>best (and worst).
>>>
>>
>>(snip)
>>
>>John - Have you tried any of the aftermarket inks or spoken to anyone who
>>has?
>
> He does not want a clog churchie
>
>>Consumers is correct in that you have to be very selective with these
>>products. I've read every issue of Consumers Reports for more than 20
>>years and also gone online to their site and read the info there as well.
>>None of the brands
>
> Hey jerkm there are not BRANDS. All of the vendors who sell aftermarket
> ink will not tell you what they are selling you and will never tell you
> when changes occurr. They just like to misrepresent directly or
> indirectly by ommission.
>
Not True1 I have already replied to your rubbish on more than one occassion
stating the manufacturer of the ink cartridges I use, the ink they contain
and the manufacturer of the ink I refill my cartridges with. I note that on
each occassion you do not reply. Could it be that you cannot respond because
it would spoil your warped views?

>>they covered are those that are reported as being used successfully on
>>this ng, Neil Slade's
>
> Hey fotofreek is the moderator there. That is you Burtie Furtie. Nobody
> will ever get the truth there.
>
Yet again untrue.

>>site, or the Nifty forum (a site that deals most with aftermarket inks and
>>computer maintenance). As far as I can tell, they reviewed aftermarket
>>cartridges that are available in the large office supply stores.
>>generally, the aftermarket carts at these stores are too close in price to
>>the OEM carts to bother. There was no review of the bulk inks, used for
>>refilling that have been reported on this NG, Slade's site, or Nifty-stuff
>>forum.
>
> The moderator will tell you.
>>A few quotes from the 09/05 dated online reference to aftermarket inks:
>>"A FEW GOOD INKS Printpal (OA100), Carrot Ink, and Amazon Imaging did
>>well, but other off-brands were worse than brand names, and no cheaper."
>>
>
> NON OF THE ABOVE ARE BRANDED. THEY ARE UNBRANDED GENERIC INKS THAT ARE
> GIVEN A LABEL BY THE PERSON WHO SELLS THEM. WHY I COULD MARKET THEM IF I
> WANT AND CALL THEM INKY STINKY. I GUESS IF I DID THE CHURCH MEMBERS WOULD
> TOUT THEM AS WELL.
>
>>"Some off-brands produced very good photos at a slightly lower per-print
>>cost than the brand names.
>
> THERE ARE NO BRAND NAMES OTHER THAN CANON, EPSON, AND HP.

Once again wrong! Who do you think makes their ink? They don't!
>
>>They'd be smart choices when economy is more important than excellent
>>photo quality. Off-brands have more to offer for printing text. With some
>>off-brands, you can get excellent black text at a good price."
>>
>>
>>"These and other findings are the results of a four-month study for which
>>we bought more than 500 inkjet cartridges across the U.S., and produced
>>more than 35,000 prints on printers from three of the top inkjet printer
>>brands."
>>
>>Although I have great respect for Consumers, my experience tells me that
>>these articles are not misleading.
>
> SNIPIDE DO DA
>
>> Although they do require the user refilling OEM or aftermarket cartridges
> AND WHAT A PAIN IN THE ASS IT IS

Wrong again! But then You would'nt know, You've never refilled a cartridge.
>
>>or filling empty cartridges that are available online, they produce
>>excellent results. In my case I refill cartridges with
>
> SNIP
>
>>bulk inks and get excellent photo quality. I have compared these prints
>>side-by-side with the same files printed with OEM ink on the same printer
>>and the MIS prints are equal in appearance to the OEM prints.
>>
>>
>>There is only one person who posts messages on this NG who knocks all
>>these products and refilling.
> JUST LIKE YOU - I READ THE FOLLOWING
>
> CONSUMER REPORTS
> PC WORLD
> PC MAGAZINE
> MANY FORUMS AND NEWSGROUPS
>
> WHERE PEOPLE HAVE HAD MANY PRINTER PROBLEMS INCLUDING CLOGGING.
>
> THE ONLY JUSTIFICATION THAT I CAN THINK OF FOR PUTTING UP WITH THE WHORES
> IN THIS INDUSTRY AND RISK A CLOGGED PRINT HEAD IS IF YOUR PRINT LOAD IS SO
> VERY HIGH THAT YOU CAN RECOVER THE COST OF THE PRINTER BEFORE IT CLOGS.
>
You should try reading reports from the printer manufacturers themselves who
agree that the majority of third party inks show themselves to be little
different than their own, both in terms of quality, results and lack of
glogging. Which is why their warranties still apply even if you use third
party cartridges or refill your own.
Shame that you can't speak from your own experiences as others in this
newsgroup do.


--
Regards
Stick, Oxford, UK
#Remove the 'at' and the'dots' to reply
August 9, 2005 11:29:17 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Stick Stickus wrote:
> "measekite" <inkystinky@oem.com> wrote in message
> news:NgWJe.948$dk5.572@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...

>>
>>THE ONLY JUSTIFICATION THAT I CAN THINK OF FOR PUTTING UP WITH THE WHORES
>>IN THIS INDUSTRY AND RISK A CLOGGED PRINT HEAD IS IF YOUR PRINT LOAD IS SO
>>VERY HIGH THAT YOU CAN RECOVER THE COST OF THE PRINTER BEFORE IT CLOGS.
>>
>
> You should try reading reports from the printer manufacturers themselves who
> agree that the majority of third party inks show themselves to be little
> different than their own, both in terms of quality, results and lack of
> glogging. Which is why their warranties still apply even if you use third
> party cartridges or refill your own.
> Shame that you can't speak from your own experiences as others in this
> newsgroup do.
>
>

This guy measershit is a complete idiot. He is actually a spammer for
canon. He has no experience with after market anything. His only reply
when cornered is to change your post or make some ridiculously childish,
nonsensical reply. He is truly a sick individual. Pay no attention to
anything he post.
Frank
Anonymous
August 9, 2005 11:29:18 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

measekite wrote:
>
Er, whether he's killfiled you or not is only his business. In any
event, he, and virtually everyone else is ignoring your posts. Except
me. And this is my last, as well.

Go with God.

--
John McWilliams
August 9, 2005 11:29:19 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

John McWilliams wrote:

> measekite wrote:
>
>>
> Er, whether he's killfiled you or not is only his business. In any
> event, he, and virtually everyone else is ignoring your posts. Except
> me. And this is my last, as well.
>
> Go with God.
>
I've already kill filed the dumb bastard. He's just too stupid to
realize it.
Can you believe how crazy this idiot is?
Frank
Anonymous
August 9, 2005 11:29:20 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Frank wrote:
> John McWilliams wrote:
>
>> measekite wrote:
>>
>>>
>> Er, whether he's killfiled you or not is only his business. In any
>> event, he, and virtually everyone else is ignoring your posts. Except
>> me. And this is my last, as well.
>>
>> Go with God.
>>
> I've already kill filed the dumb bastard. He's just too stupid to
> realize it.
> Can you believe how crazy this idiot is?

On usenet, anything is believable, or unblievable, take your pick!

Now if we can all never reply or mention him, it's only a matter of
time. So, I hope I can refrain from ever posting to a post referring to
him.

Time will tell.

--
jpmcw
August 9, 2005 11:46:08 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

> Er, whether he's killfiled you or not is only his business. In any
> event, he, and virtually everyone else is ignoring your posts. Except
> me. And this is my last, as well.

> Go with God.

Doesn't matter to me if he goes with God, Allah, Buddha, or even
Ktulu. As this is a printer group I imagine it would be best to go
with Gutenberg.

Anyhow the statement was made that costco sells for much cheaper...
sure if you buy 3 or 4 pack of bci-3e black... and IIRC correctly they
didn't have a bci-6 black in their color pack. The prices quoted were
below MSRP and are accurate 100% if you shop at office depot not
including tax.

But just to be *fair* since it is a valid point.

$20 for a pair of BCI-3e black (unfair as costco sells them in 3 packs)
$72 for 8 BCI-6 colors (unfair as costco doesn't offer the black in the
set).

$92 for a mythical costco deal that in reality doesn't exist. unless
run to another store and fetch the bci-6BK, and buy 3 or 4 blacks.

$92
$25.60572 =162ml MIS 2oz kit ink =
-----------
Savings = $66.39428

Conclusion... while not the value of the printer... this *is* more than
the value of the head

--------------
$42.99 Office depot 4 pack BCI-3e and CMY BCI-6
$11.49 Office Depot BCI-6 BK
--------------
54.48
x2
-----------
$108.96 <--- a real can get today price not including tax and one stop
shopping... free to door shipping if needed.

$108.96
$25.60572 =162ml MIS 2oz kit ink =
----------------
$83.45528

While not the value of the printer unless you get yours for $100 free
shipping and a $20 rebate. But this is more than the value of the head
and then sum.


Conclusion...shopping at costco and getting a deal that doesn't exist,
it would take 3 refills to equal the value of the printer.
Shopping at office depot and buying their 4 pack and a single bci-6...
while being a better than average deal... 2.8 refills are required to
equal the value of the printer.


----------------------------------------
But let's be ultra ultra fair, give costco the benifit of the doubt.

$30.xx BCI-3e 3 pack... 75ml total (18.25ml more than 2oz).
$27.xx BCI-6 3 pack 42ml total
$11.50 BCI-6bk you have to buy somewhere else 14ml
---------
$68.50 Out of pocket 131ml

Let's go for the gold here and do three black refills and two color
2 x ($27.xx + 11.50 )= $77 112m
+$30
----
$107.00 (3 blacks, 2x 3 colors two bci-6bk from office depot). Same
price as office depot but you get an extra black... this is not a bad
deal.

This is harder to calculate as I was refering to the "kit" offered by
MIS.. not their bulk inks. To be fair I have to add in $5.00 for
2oz(56.75ml) of bulk ink to meet the requirements.
56.75ml * 15.806c/ml = $8.97
$5.00/56.75ml = 8.81c/ml
18.25ml * 8.81c/ml = $1.61

$8.97
+ $1.61
-----------
$10.58 Equilivent cost in black from MIS

And the kit which costs more, totally costs more would cover two refill
easy

(8*14ml) x 15.806c/ml = $17.70272

$10.58
$17.70
----------
$28.28


vs $30 + 2($27 + 11.50) $109 costco deal

$109
$28.28
----------
$80.72

Conclusion... while the savings on the BCI-3 is less... This is close
to the value of a printer, and more than the value of a head.

Shopping at costco doesn't make much of a hill of beans difference.
While you get an extra 25ml black by the time you hit this value the
cost/ml drops so greatly that it adds dollars to the cost rather than
$10.00

Prices for OEM ink do not include tax.. so add that percent for
realistic actual prices spent.
Anonymous
August 10, 2005 12:22:32 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Zakezuke's calculations prove what I've been saying for a long time and what
every refiller knows about the savings associated with refilling and proves
beyond reasonable doubt (at least for those with normal reasoning skills)
that one doesn't need to be a high volume user to save money by refilling.
His calculations as to the savings are very conservative and are an example
of the upper end cost that refilling entails, when in actual practice the
cost savings are even greater. The greater cost savings can come in several
ways. #1, MIS inks are more expensive than some other brands. As an example,
Hobbicolors complete kit is half the cost of MIS. #2, with either kit only
the initial filling with ink uses the amount shown in the example. Even with
the reservoir tank empty, the sponge will hold about 7cc's of ink. so only
about half as much ink is needed for subsequent refills. #3, many people
don't use the virgin tanks that come with MIS or Hobbicolors kits although
by using the empty tanks they are assured of exact color results for each
refill which is important if using printer profiles. If they are refilling
either OEM or 3rd party tanks, there is only a need to fill the reservoir
and not the sponge as well. #4, the two ounce kit referred to is the most
expensive per refill. Larger size bottles of ink or bulk ink is cheaper per
ounce.

Even for a user with low to moderate ink consumption one can easily see the
cost benefits of refilling. Zakezuke hasn't attempted to paint a best case
example of the cost savings, but instead shows the minimum amount that can
be saved and which does result in a very quick payback. Using less
conservative numbers based on what I've noted above, the savings are even
greater and the payback a little sooner.
--
Ron

"zakezuke" <zakezuke_us@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1123575695.906758.196240@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>> He fails to realize that he (or anyone else who chooses to do so), can
>> recover the cost of the printer in 2 refills, with no increase in risk
>> of clogging (in my 8 years of experience refilling, vs. his 0
>> experience)
>
> Sounds reasonable... let's check that... using the ip4000 as a
> reference... mis refill kit.
>
> $39.95 plus shipping of 4.90 fex-ex ground. total $54.85
>
> 2oz of ink each color.. 28.375/oz = 56.75ml... 5 colors = 283.75ml or
> an average price of 0.1933c/ml... this cost includes syrenges,
> refillable carts at $5.00 per, and a glove.
>
> The black contains 25ml and costs $4.8325 to refill using this kit
> Each color contains 15ml and costs $2.8995 by 4 $11.598
>
> You get 2.27 refills of pigment black
> you get 3.78 refills of pigment black
>
> Canon OEM inks cost $13.00 for the pigmented black
> $11.50 /color or $46 for a set. Grand total of $59.00
>
> The kit value of only 2oz of ink/each represents $29.51 in pigmented
> black inks, $178.88 in color inks for a total of $203.39.
>
> Conclusion... given you save $148.54 based on my estimates... even
> paying for refillable tanks, syrenges, a glove or two, ink and
> shipping. The savings would be higher if you bought more ink at a
> time, and didn't buy refillable tanks each time. Even if you clog after
> using 2oz of ink... and have to buy either a head valued at $60 or a
> new printer at $120... you still save money.
>
> But is irwin's statement correct that one can recover the cost of the
> printer in two refills?
> $26 of black $23 color * 4 = 92 total $118.
> 50ml black... 15ml color *4 = 90ml color
> 0.1933c/ml
> 50ml black = $9.665
> 90ml colors = $17.397
> --------------------------------
> $27.062
>
> $118-$27.062 = $90.938 savings after two refills
>
> Compusa price of the ip4000.... $100.00 or $80.00 with a rebate.
>
> Sorry irwin... unless you get a rebate or sell off the oem inks that
> came with the printer, assuming the cost of the ink refill kit at mis
> it would take exactly 2.2 refills to equal the cost of a new printer,
> and not 2. However, if you already own syrenges, and a hot glue gun...
> you would could be very much correct in all likelyhood.
>
> But given that you don't have to replace the whole printer, just the
> printhead, which is valued at about $60, this would make your statement
> very much true.
>
Anonymous
August 10, 2005 12:32:37 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Irwin Peckinloomer wrote:

>In article <NgWJe.948$dk5.572@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com>,
>inkystinky@oem.com says... Bizarrely:
>
>
>>THERE ARE NO BRAND NAMES OTHER THAN CANON, EPSON, AND HP.
>>
>>
>
>Words of a "true believer" hence the jihad against all aftermarket inks.
>
>
>then, inkystinky@oem.com says... with no thought at all, says:
>
>
>
>>THE ONLY JUSTIFICATION THAT I CAN THINK OF FOR PUTTING UP WITH THE
>>WHORES IN THIS INDUSTRY AND RISK A CLOGGED PRINT HEAD IS IF YOUR PRINT
>>LOAD IS SO VERY HIGH THAT YOU CAN RECOVER THE COST OF THE PRINTER BEFORE
>>IT CLOGS.
>>
>>
>>
>He fails to realize that he (or anyone else who chooses to do so), can
>recover the cost of the printer in 2 refills, with no increase in risk
>of clogging (in my 8 years of experience refilling, vs. his 0
>experience)
>
>

Hey Peckerface - What do you think I said

THE ONLY JUSTIFICATION THAT I CAN THINK OF FOR PUTTING UP WITH THE
> WHORES IN THIS INDUSTRY AND RISK A CLOGGED PRINT HEAD IS IF YOUR PRINT
> LOAD IS SO VERY HIGH THAT YOU CAN RECOVER THE COST OF THE PRINTER BEFORE
> IT CLOGS.
Anonymous
August 10, 2005 12:36:25 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

zakezuke wrote:

>>He fails to realize that he (or anyone else who chooses to do so), can
>>recover the cost of the printer in 2 refills, with no increase in risk
>>of clogging (in my 8 years of experience refilling, vs. his 0
>>experience)
>>
>>
>
>Sounds reasonable... let's check that... using the ip4000 as a
>reference... mis refill kit.
>
>$39.95 plus shipping of 4.90 fex-ex ground. total $54.85
>
> 2oz of ink each color.. 28.375/oz = 56.75ml... 5 colors = 283.75ml or
>an average price of 0.1933c/ml... this cost includes syrenges,
>refillable carts at $5.00 per, and a glove.
>
>The black contains 25ml and costs $4.8325 to refill using this kit
>Each color contains 15ml and costs $2.8995 by 4 $11.598
>
>You get 2.27 refills of pigment black
>you get 3.78 refills of pigment black
>
>Canon OEM inks cost $13.00 for the pigmented black
>$11.50 /color or $46 for a set. Grand total of $59.00
>
>

*WRONG*

*COSTCO SELLS THE COLORS FOR ABOUT $9.00 A CART AND BLACKS FOR ABOUT
$10.00.*

>The kit value of only 2oz of ink/each represents $29.51 in pigmented
>black inks, $178.88 in color inks for a total of $203.39.
>
>Conclusion... given you save $148.54 based on my estimates... even
>paying for refillable tanks, syrenges, a glove or two, ink and
>shipping. The savings would be higher if you bought more ink at a
>time, and didn't buy refillable tanks each time. Even if you clog after
>using 2oz of ink... and have to buy either a head valued at $60 or a
>new printer at $120... you still save money.
>
>But is irwin's statement correct that one can recover the cost of the
>printer in two refills?
>$26 of black $23 color * 4 = 92 total $118.
>50ml black... 15ml color *4 = 90ml color
>0.1933c/ml
>50ml black = $9.665
>90ml colors = $17.397
>--------------------------------
>$27.062
>
>$118-$27.062 = $90.938 savings after two refills
>
>Compusa price of the ip4000.... $100.00 or $80.00 with a rebate.
>
>Sorry irwin... unless you get a rebate or sell off the oem inks that
>came with the printer, assuming the cost of the ink refill kit at mis
>it would take exactly 2.2 refills to equal the cost of a new printer,
>and not 2. However, if you already own syrenges, and a hot glue gun...
>you would could be very much correct in all likelyhood.
>
>But given that you don't have to replace the whole printer, just the
>printhead, which is valued at about $60, this would make your statement
>very much true.
>
>
>
Anonymous
August 10, 2005 12:39:10 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

LindaD wrote:

>"zakezuke" <zakezuke_us@yahoo.com> wrote in news:1123575695.906758.196240
>@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
>
>
>
>>>He fails to realize that he (or anyone else who chooses to do so), can
>>>recover the cost of the printer in 2 refills, with no increase in risk
>>>of clogging (in my 8 years of experience refilling, vs. his 0
>>>experience)
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>(edited)
>
>
>
>>Compusa price of the ip4000.... $100.00 or $80.00 with a rebate.
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>Up here in Canada we can now buy an iP4000 with 5 new cartridges included
>for the same amount as 5 new cartridges alone! . . . Hence the old saying,
>"They give you the printer and grab you by the tentacles (typo!)
>

I DID NOT THINK YOU HAD TENTACLES ;-)

> when you try
>to buy an ounce of ink." Even braindead Measekite can see the pimping attempt
>here from the printer maker to get you hooked on their product.
>
>

IT IS MORE THAN JUST MONEY. I DO NOT LIKE DEALING WITH WHORES.

>Everyone keeps crying about the price of oil per barrel. Has anyone calculated
>the price of OEM ink "per barrel"?
>

THEN PUT OIL IN YOUR PRINT CARTS. THEN YOU CAN HAVE AN OIL PAINTING. :-D

YOU SOUND CUTE.

>Close to a million dollars? Can someone
>do the math here. I can't, it's too early in the morning. Anyway, my cyan just
>flashed that it's low. Time to buy a new printer! <Linda>
>
>
Anonymous
August 10, 2005 12:40:54 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Burt wrote:

>"zakezuke" <zakezuke_us@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>news:1123575695.906758.196240@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>>>He fails to realize that he (or anyone else who chooses to do so), can
>>>recover the cost of the printer in 2 refills, with no increase in risk
>>>of clogging (in my 8 years of experience refilling, vs. his 0
>>>experience)
>>>
>>>
>>Sounds reasonable... let's check that... using the ip4000 as a
>>reference... mis refill kit.
>>
>>$39.95 plus shipping of 4.90 fex-ex ground. total $54.85
>>
>>2oz of ink each color.. 28.375/oz = 56.75ml... 5 colors = 283.75ml or
>>an average price of 0.1933c/ml... this cost includes syrenges,
>>refillable carts at $5.00 per, and a glove.
>>
>>The black contains 25ml and costs $4.8325 to refill using this kit
>>Each color contains 15ml and costs $2.8995 by 4 $11.598
>>
>>You get 2.27 refills of pigment black
>>you get 3.78 refills of pigment black
>>
>>Canon OEM inks cost $13.00 for the pigmented black
>>$11.50 /color or $46 for a set. Grand total of $59.00
>>
>>The kit value of only 2oz of ink/each represents $29.51 in pigmented
>>black inks, $178.88 in color inks for a total of $203.39.
>>
>>Conclusion... given you save $148.54 based on my estimates... even
>>paying for refillable tanks, syrenges, a glove or two, ink and
>>shipping. The savings would be higher if you bought more ink at a
>>time, and didn't buy refillable tanks each time. Even if you clog after
>>using 2oz of ink... and have to buy either a head valued at $60 or a
>>new printer at $120... you still save money.
>>
>>But is irwin's statement correct that one can recover the cost of the
>>printer in two refills?
>>$26 of black $23 color * 4 = 92 total $118.
>>50ml black... 15ml color *4 = 90ml color
>>0.1933c/ml
>>50ml black = $9.665
>>90ml colors = $17.397
>>--------------------------------
>>$27.062
>>
>>$118-$27.062 = $90.938 savings after two refills
>>
>>Compusa price of the ip4000.... $100.00 or $80.00 with a rebate.
>>
>>Sorry irwin... unless you get a rebate or sell off the oem inks that
>>came with the printer, assuming the cost of the ink refill kit at mis
>>it would take exactly 2.2 refills to equal the cost of a new printer,
>>and not 2. However, if you already own syrenges, and a hot glue gun...
>>you would could be very much correct in all likelyhood.
>>
>>But given that you don't have to replace the whole printer, just the
>>printhead, which is valued at about $60, this would make your statement
>>very much true.
>>
>>
>
>Zake
>

OH HOW INFORMAL. DO YOU BEND OVER FOR HIM?

>- I think the savings is actually a bit greater than you projected. I
>thought that the OEM bci-6 carts had 14 ml. of ink (I don't mean to split
>hairs!) and when the warning comes up to change carts you still have a few
>ml of ink in the sponge that are unusable. I actually don't know what the
>quantity of ink is that remains in the sponge when you discard the spent
>cartridge and replace it with another OEM cart, but at nearly $1 per ml it
>is significant in calculating savings. Remember also that when refilling
>you don't throw away the last few ml of ink in the cart but simply add to it
>which gives you the equivalent of a new cart with around 10 to 12 ml. of
>refill ink. I haven't measured the amount of ink that is used to fill the
>entire reservoir area, but I think it is around 8 to 10 ml. That includes
>the ink that soaks into the sponge as you are refilling. I never let the
>reservoir get below 3/4 empty, so I don't know the exact amount it will
>hold. Bottom line - I think you will get the eqivalent of 5 refills for
>the bci-6 cart due to the remainder of ink left in the sponge at the time
>each refill is done. This pretty much doubles your savings projection.
>
>

THERE IS MORE THAN MONEY AND CLOGS. I DO NOT LIKE DEALING WITH WHORES.

>
>
>
>
Anonymous
August 10, 2005 12:41:51 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

WHY DO YOU WAST YOUR TIME WITH A COMPOSITION. WHAT AN IDIOT

Burt wrote:

>"Burt" <sfbjgNOSPAM@pacbell.net> wrote in message
>news:kL4Ke.2906$zr1.937@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...
>
>
>>"zakezuke" <zakezuke_us@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>news:1123575695.906758.196240@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>>
>>
>>>>He fails to realize that he (or anyone else who chooses to do so), can
>>>>recover the cost of the printer in 2 refills, with no increase in risk
>>>>of clogging (in my 8 years of experience refilling, vs. his 0
>>>>experience)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>Sounds reasonable... let's check that... using the ip4000 as a
>>>reference... mis refill kit.
>>>
>>>$39.95 plus shipping of 4.90 fex-ex ground. total $54.85
>>>
>>>
>
>(snip)
>
>OOPS - I failed to notice that your calculator goofed by $10, further
>skewing the comparison. Also, once you have the syringes and cartridges the
>ink costs only $5 per 2 oz container for a total of $25, $30 with shipping,
>for the ip4000. By my calculations you get 4 to 5 refills per 2 oz.
>container (remember the residual ink in the sponge that is thrown away using
>OEM only) and that equals 20 to 25 refills for $30. Conservitavely speaking
>then, 20 OEM carts retail cost is about $250 with tax (california) and
>refilling is $30 for a minimum savings of $220. Even when purchased at
>Costco (remember our resident troll's favorite store) at $9 per cart plus
>tax the 20 OEM carts would cost about $195 for a savings of $165. That's a
>conservative estimate as I believe you get more than the equivalent of 20
>refills out of the 5 - 2 oz. containers. At 5 refills of 11+ ml. each you
>save over $200 as compared to the Costco price (with tax) or almost $300 as
>compared to retail (about $13, including tax.) The original set of carts
>that come with the printer can support more than 5 refills. Additional
>carts, either empty @ about $5 or prefilled and refillable @ anywhere from
>less than $3 up, should be added to the cost projection as you pointed out,
>but this only adds less than $30 per set for each 2 oz. set of bulk inks.
>Also as you point out, buying larger containers increases the savings.
>
>Zake - You are to be commended for making an effort to be even more
>conservative in your savings projection in this ongoing "discussion." It
>would be inappropriate to inflate the savings to try to make the financial
>benefit appear greater than it really is. Nonetheless, I believe my figures
>are closer to the real savings.
>
>
>
>
Anonymous
August 10, 2005 12:43:03 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

HEY STICK. GUESS WHERE YOU NEED TO STICKIT

Stick Stickus wrote:

>"measekite" <inkystinky@oem.com> wrote in message
>news:NgWJe.948$dk5.572@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...
>
>
>>Burt wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>"John Pezzano" <jpezz@myway.com> wrote in message
>>>news:78056$42f7ce2d$498661d$32323@DIALUPUSA.NET...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Read Consumer Reports. They have had reviews of refills and compatibles.
>>>>In general they don't recommend either but they do have good info on the
>>>>best (and worst).
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>(snip)
>>>
>>>John - Have you tried any of the aftermarket inks or spoken to anyone who
>>>has?
>>>
>>>
>>He does not want a clog churchie
>>
>>
>>
>>>Consumers is correct in that you have to be very selective with these
>>>products. I've read every issue of Consumers Reports for more than 20
>>>years and also gone online to their site and read the info there as well.
>>>None of the brands
>>>
>>>
>>Hey jerkm there are not BRANDS. All of the vendors who sell aftermarket
>>ink will not tell you what they are selling you and will never tell you
>>when changes occurr. They just like to misrepresent directly or
>>indirectly by ommission.
>>
>>
>>
>Not True1 I have already replied to your rubbish on more than one occassion
>stating the manufacturer of the ink cartridges I use, the ink they contain
>and the manufacturer of the ink I refill my cartridges with. I note that on
>each occassion you do not reply. Could it be that you cannot respond because
>it would spoil your warped views?
>
>
>
>>>they covered are those that are reported as being used successfully on
>>>this ng, Neil Slade's
>>>
>>>
>>Hey fotofreek is the moderator there. That is you Burtie Furtie. Nobody
>>will ever get the truth there.
>>
>>
>>
>Yet again untrue.
>
>
>
>>>site, or the Nifty forum (a site that deals most with aftermarket inks and
>>>computer maintenance). As far as I can tell, they reviewed aftermarket
>>>cartridges that are available in the large office supply stores.
>>>generally, the aftermarket carts at these stores are too close in price to
>>>the OEM carts to bother. There was no review of the bulk inks, used for
>>>refilling that have been reported on this NG, Slade's site, or Nifty-stuff
>>>forum.
>>>
>>>
>>The moderator will tell you.
>>
>>
>>>A few quotes from the 09/05 dated online reference to aftermarket inks:
>>>"A FEW GOOD INKS Printpal (OA100), Carrot Ink, and Amazon Imaging did
>>>well, but other off-brands were worse than brand names, and no cheaper."
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>NON OF THE ABOVE ARE BRANDED. THEY ARE UNBRANDED GENERIC INKS THAT ARE
>>GIVEN A LABEL BY THE PERSON WHO SELLS THEM. WHY I COULD MARKET THEM IF I
>>WANT AND CALL THEM INKY STINKY. I GUESS IF I DID THE CHURCH MEMBERS WOULD
>>TOUT THEM AS WELL.
>>
>>
>>
>>>"Some off-brands produced very good photos at a slightly lower per-print
>>>cost than the brand names.
>>>
>>>
>>THERE ARE NO BRAND NAMES OTHER THAN CANON, EPSON, AND HP.
>>
>>
>
>Once again wrong! Who do you think makes their ink? They don't!
>
>
>>>They'd be smart choices when economy is more important than excellent
>>>photo quality. Off-brands have more to offer for printing text. With some
>>>off-brands, you can get excellent black text at a good price."
>>>
>>>
>>>"These and other findings are the results of a four-month study for which
>>>we bought more than 500 inkjet cartridges across the U.S., and produced
>>>more than 35,000 prints on printers from three of the top inkjet printer
>>>brands."
>>>
>>>Although I have great respect for Consumers, my experience tells me that
>>>these articles are not misleading.
>>>
>>>
>>SNIPIDE DO DA
>>
>>
>>
>>>Although they do require the user refilling OEM or aftermarket cartridges
>>>
>>>
>>AND WHAT A PAIN IN THE ASS IT IS
>>
>>
>
>Wrong again! But then You would'nt know, You've never refilled a cartridge.
>
>
>>>or filling empty cartridges that are available online, they produce
>>>excellent results. In my case I refill cartridges with
>>>
>>>
>>SNIP
>>
>>
>>
>>>bulk inks and get excellent photo quality. I have compared these prints
>>>side-by-side with the same files printed with OEM ink on the same printer
>>>and the MIS prints are equal in appearance to the OEM prints.
>>>
>>>
>>>There is only one person who posts messages on this NG who knocks all
>>>these products and refilling.
>>>
>>>
>>JUST LIKE YOU - I READ THE FOLLOWING
>>
>>CONSUMER REPORTS
>>PC WORLD
>>PC MAGAZINE
>>MANY FORUMS AND NEWSGROUPS
>>
>>WHERE PEOPLE HAVE HAD MANY PRINTER PROBLEMS INCLUDING CLOGGING.
>>
>>THE ONLY JUSTIFICATION THAT I CAN THINK OF FOR PUTTING UP WITH THE WHORES
>>IN THIS INDUSTRY AND RISK A CLOGGED PRINT HEAD IS IF YOUR PRINT LOAD IS SO
>>VERY HIGH THAT YOU CAN RECOVER THE COST OF THE PRINTER BEFORE IT CLOGS.
>>
>>
>>
>You should try reading reports from the printer manufacturers themselves who
>agree that the majority of third party inks show themselves to be little
>different than their own, both in terms of quality, results and lack of
>glogging. Which is why their warranties still apply even if you use third
>party cartridges or refill your own.
>Shame that you can't speak from your own experiences as others in this
>newsgroup do.
>
>
>
>
Anonymous
August 10, 2005 3:00:00 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

In article <Ov8Ke.3588$zr1.1138@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com>,
inkystinky@oem.com (measekite the hormonally confused troll) wrote:

> I DID NOT THINK YOU HAD TENTACLES ;-)

> THEN PUT OIL IN YOUR PRINT CARTS. THEN YOU CAN HAVE AN OIL PAINTING.
> :-D

> YOU SOUND CUTE.

Oh ye gods! Now he's attempting (in his ham-fisted manner) to flirt with
Linda, even though she's just described him as 'braindead'!

I suggest anyone with a weak stomach looks away now. This could get
embarrassing.

Jon.
August 10, 2005 3:00:01 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Jon O'Brien wrote:

> In article <Ov8Ke.3588$zr1.1138@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com>,
> inkystinky@oem.com (measekite the hormonally confused troll) wrote:
>
>
>>I DID NOT THINK YOU HAD TENTACLES ;-)
>
>
>>THEN PUT OIL IN YOUR PRINT CARTS. THEN YOU CAN HAVE AN OIL PAINTING.
>>:-D
>
>
>>YOU SOUND CUTE.
>
>
> Oh ye gods! Now he's attempting (in his ham-fisted manner) to flirt with
> Linda, even though she's just described him as 'braindead'!
>
> I suggest anyone with a weak stomach looks away now. This could get
> embarrassing.
>
> Jon.
Hopefully he has not and never will reproduce. G_d help us if he has!
Frank
August 10, 2005 3:15:54 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

> But is the cost of the printer really $100.00 or is it more like $50.00?

Valid point... one could

1. Just buy a head $60ish
2. just buy a printer, toss the old printer $100ish +/- $20 for the
ip4000
3. Buy printer, sell OEM ink $8.00 each would be fair...$80ish +/-
$20 Toss old printer
4. Buy printer, sell OEM ink and old printer. $8/each fair or $40 and
$35 in misc parts. $50ish to you +/- $20

This is assuming that head clogging is an issue... which well I haven't
seen it yet.

Still that was beyond the point of my analysis, which was whether it
would be a loss if your printer went kauput after the 2nd refill. It's
close... if we were talking a 6 cart printer I would have little doubt
depending on the model and cost of replacement. On a 5 printer....
it's close... but by the 3rd refill your totally home free, you can
trash that printer, the warranty could be expired, but you saved so
much it doesn't matter. While I am critical of the userfriendlyness of
the MIS kit... seriously they should go for some nice caps with
threaded locks for the blunt needles rather that syrenges... it costs
less from the get go.

While there are some valid reasons for going OEM... I don't see many
for the freaking canon who's OEM ink isn't really all that great in
terms of lightfastness. It's my hope in the future that OEMs will see
this trend and either lower their prices by a fator of at least 50%, or
for the price they are asking offer archivial inks.
Anonymous
August 10, 2005 3:51:02 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

John McWilliams wrote:

> measekite wrote:
>
>>
> Er, whether he's killfiled you or not is only his business. In any
> event, he, and virtually everyone else is ignoring your posts. Except
> me. And this is my last, as well.
>
> Go with God.

I am God
Anonymous
August 10, 2005 3:52:47 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Jon O'Brien wrote:

>In article <Ov8Ke.3588$zr1.1138@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com>,
>inkystinky@oem.com (measekite the hormonally confused troll) wrote:
>
>
>
>>I DID NOT THINK YOU HAD TENTACLES ;-)
>>
>>
>
>
>
>>THEN PUT OIL IN YOUR PRINT CARTS. THEN YOU CAN HAVE AN OIL PAINTING.
>>:-D
>>
>>
>
>
>
>>YOU SOUND CUTE.
>>
>>
>
>Oh ye gods! Now he's attempting (in his ham-fisted manner) to flirt with
>Linda, even though she's just described him as 'braindead'!
>
>I suggest anyone with a weak stomach looks away now. This could get
>embarrassing.
>
>Jon.
>
>
I am not Dick Dead
Anonymous
August 10, 2005 3:54:53 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Frank wrote:

> John McWilliams wrote:
>
>> measekite wrote:
>>
>>>
>> Er, whether he's killfiled you or not is only his business. In any
>> event, he, and virtually everyone else is ignoring your posts. Except
>> me. And this is my last, as well.
>>
>> Go with God.
>>
> I've already kill filed the dumb bastard. He's just too stupid to
> realize it.
> Can you believe how crazy this idiot is?
> Frank


I've already kill filed the dumb bastard. He's just too stupid to
realize it.
Can you believe how crazy this idiot is?
Frank the Abortion
Anonymous
August 10, 2005 3:56:22 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

John McWilliams wrote:

> Frank wrote:
>
>> John McWilliams wrote:
>>
>>> measekite wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>> Er, whether he's killfiled you or not is only his business. In any
>>> event, he, and virtually everyone else is ignoring your posts.
>>> Except me. And this is my last, as well.
>>>
>>> Go with God.
>>>
>> I've already kill filed the dumb bastard. He's just too stupid to
>> realize it.
>> Can you believe how crazy this idiot is?
>
>
> On usenet, anything is believable, or unblievable, take your pick!
>
> Now if we can all never reply or mention him, it's only a matter of
> time. So, I hope I can refrain from ever posting to a post referring
> to him.
>
> Time will tell.


YOU CAN'T BILLIE BOY
August 10, 2005 6:06:25 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

> > Zuke - It's fun to play with the numbers, but the bottom line is that you
>>and I absolutely agree that the savings are substantial

>for heavy useers

The kit for $39.99 and than $4.90 for shipping provides enough ink for
two blacks and 4 refills of 4 cartrages. Not only does this cost...
using the numbers you provided which are false... The cost of the
BCI-6bk at office depot is $11.50. You can get BCI-6 cmy for $28 at
costco the last time I looked. They don't sell singles at costco so
it's office depot again for $12.99. $52.49 plus tax which for me
would be 8.8% (4.62) $57.11

$57.11 - $44.99 = $12.12

You save 21% at first.

You get 2.27 refills on the 2oz kit. 2.27*12.99 = 29.4873
you get 4.02 refills of pigment black 4.02($11.50+28) = 158.79
$188.28 + 8.8% tax = 16.57 = $204.85

$204.85 - $44.99 = $159.86

You save 78%. after using 2oz.

I don't take things on faith. I look, I analyze, I evaluate. Your
statement that only heavy users save money is false. Everyone using
this kit which costs alot in terms of refill kits, this over priced kit
saves you from buying a single bci-3e and bci-6bk from office depot and
the three pack of color ink available from Costco, absolutly everyone
who buys it saves 21%. *Everyone*. People who continue to use this
kit through out it's life of over 2 refills pigment black and 4 refills
of 4 tanks color save 78%. This is a fact.

Is it messy? It can be - somewhat true
Is it a pain? Could be - total opinion but a valid enough point

I can respect any individual who doesn't want to take the time. But
the cost savings are very easy to measure and are significant not only
for heavy users, but for anyone as the cost of this kit, this $39.99
plus 4.90 shipping kit costs less than OEM inks by 21% and provides you
with a total cost savings of 78%... higher after the kit is done with
you buy more bulk ink.

You save 130% the MSRP value of the printer after using 2oz of ink in
each cart. That's a proven fact.
Anonymous
August 10, 2005 8:08:13 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Once again the figures stated are very conservative as to savings vs.
replacement cost of the printer. IP4000's are available in the $100.00 range
+/- a few $ depending on the source. But is the cost of the printer really
$100.00 or is it more like $50.00? If the value of the Canon ink tanks is
subtracted from the total price, then the printer is only about $50.00,
which is less than the cost of a replacement print head. Based upon this,
the payback is barely over one refill instead of two. Therefore, the
question for our resident troll is why does it only have to be high volume
users to justify refilling? Every time a complete refill is done, enough
money is saved to purchase a new iP4000 (if the value of the OEM tanks is
factored in) and even if not, two complete refills will save the equivalent
purchase cost of a new printer.
--
Ron

"zakezuke" <zakezuke_us@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1123641968.655806.192080@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...

snipped out all the calculations
>
> Conclusion... while the savings on the BCI-3 is less... This is close
> to the value of a printer, and more than the value of a head.
>
> Shopping at costco doesn't make much of a hill of beans difference.
> While you get an extra 25ml black by the time you hit this value the
> cost/ml drops so greatly that it adds dollars to the cost rather than
> $10.00
>
> Prices for OEM ink do not include tax.. so add that percent for
> realistic actual prices spent.
>
!