Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (
More info?)
Rob wrote:
> frederick wrote:
>
>> Rob wrote:
>>
>>> frederick wrote:
>>>
>>>> Rob wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Roy wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> "Rob" <mesa@mine.com> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:42fb0519$0$15502$61c65585@un-2park-reader-02.sydney.pipenetworks.com.au...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> frederick wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Rob wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Has anyone sorted out the R800/1800 black and white printing
>>>>>>>>> so as to get good B&W prints? Printing through Photoshop.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I have copied some old photo's and the prints are not very good
>>>>>>>>> as compared to wet printing and sepia toning.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Any recommendations as to a work path.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> rm
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> What did it look like on screen?
>>>>>>>> It is a big ask to get a B&W print off a printer that doesn't use
>>>>>>>> several black cartriges to be as good as a wet process print.
>>>>>>>> It's going to be pretty hard to get a 100% totally neutral grey
>>>>>>>> in any
>>>>>>>> case, but calibrating your monitor and then ensuring that you use
>>>>>>>> profiles for the paper you are using would be the best starting
>>>>>>>> place.
>>>>>>>> I've managed to get some pretty decent B&W prints, printed on
>>>>>>>> Ilford
>>>>>>>> Galerie Smooth Pearl, which is a cleaner white than Epson premium
>>>>>>>> semi-gloss. (A profile for that paper / R1800 is downloadable from
>>>>>>>> Ilford). I haven't printed B&W in the darkroom for years now,
>>>>>>>> but the
>>>>>>>> prints I've done look pretty darn good to me. Metamerism
>>>>>>>> doesn't seem
>>>>>>>> to be a huge issue, tonal gradation is good and neutral. You
>>>>>>>> will waste a lot of ink and paper though if you don't get colour
>>>>>>>> calibration sorted first.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It looked Ok on the screen but the prints were muddy. That was
>>>>>>> using Ilford Gloss and I have that profile - this has worked for
>>>>>>> colour prints on Ilford Smooth Pearl paper.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What I've come up with now is - scan - desaturate - auto contrast
>>>>>>> - then make sure the density looks OK as the photos vary.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Printing Epson Gloss - let PShop determine colour/working RGB
>>>>>>> Trinitron 2.2/Saturation/Black point compensation.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Best Photo / Photo Enhance on Epson Premium Gloss.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ill go back and give the Ilford another go and see if it
>>>>>>> compares. Ilford is my preferred paper for large prints just that
>>>>>>> I had some 6x4 Epson that I tried for test prints and it seemed
>>>>>>> to work better.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I think that I expected a wet type result off the inkjet and
>>>>>>> started chasing my tail trying for the results with no positive
>>>>>>> direction.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> rm
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't do B & W, but I have seen fantastic quality B & Ws which
>>>>>> had been printed on an R1800, on all sorts of paper.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As for your "muddy" prints, I don't quite follow your explanation
>>>>>> of your workflow.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Are you using Trinitron RGB as your "workspace" profile.? That is
>>>>>> your Monitor Profile, and no-one has advised using a Monitor
>>>>>> Profile as a Working Space since PS 4 or 5.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You seem to be letting PS Colour Manage, but you never mentioned
>>>>>> selecting the Printer/Paper Profile.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If PS is colour Managing then in the Printer Advanced Dialogue
>>>>>> box, you should be selecting "No Colour Management". If you do not
>>>>>> do this then PS and the Printer will both apply corrections, and
>>>>>> only one of them should be doing so.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Roy G
>>>>>>
>>>>> Sorry I did try the colour management of the Ilford paper with
>>>>> there profiles. This I considered a muddy print - after several
>>>>> prints could not adjust to get a good print.
>>>>>
>>>>> Next step was to go into using the basic printing from PShop which
>>>>> was described previous.
>>>>>
>>>>> I still need some guidance as to what I should do as using PShop
>>>>> like I said is still not the way to go.
>>>>>
>>>>> rm
>>>>>
>>>> Just a quick question...
>>>> Are using Ilford Galerie _Smooth_ Gloss or Classic Gloss?
>>>> Classic gloss is for dye inkjets. You will get horrible prints with
>>>> the R1800 on it.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Ilford Galerie Smooth high gloss.
>>>
>>> I just combined the boxes and normally use smooth pearl for colour
>>> but each of the boxes did say they were Epson 2100 compatable. The
>>> literature says that its suitable for either dye or pigment. (I'm
>>> still using OEM inks)
>>>
>>> When I used Epson paper it was a much better print and using the
>>> Ilford maybe still be unsuitable even though its Galerie?
>>>
>> Smooth is okay - no problems. I havn't tried smooth gloss / B&W.
>> Dye ink looks nice on that paper - but it will fade very fast.
>> I suggest you have a look here:
>>
http://www.photo-i.co.uk/BB/index.php
>> There is a forum for the Epson R1800. One thread is titled "Perfect
>> B&W prints from the R1800" and has workflow instructions for how the
>> poster got neutral charcoal and sepia toned B&W.
>> There are a couple of other threads that may be of interest.
>> If it was me, and I was sure I had the profiles and workflow correct
>> but still had the problem, I would do the following:
>> Head alignment - it's important to do this.
>> Nozzle clean.
>> If all above okay I would probably cheat by making a small greyscale
>> image, adjusting the hue slightly in bands on the image, print it,
>> select the one I liked best, and use it for reference.
>>
>>
>
> Thanks thats the best suggestion Ill go there and see what they say.
>
> Its been interesting in trying all the odd papers I have - Kodak Ilford
> Epson and Fuji. making a 6x4 on the R1800 then one on the R210
> completely different results even tried the 1270. One thing I did notice
> was the R210 on Epson Premium Gloss looked good.
>
> rm
>
Epson have released a "White Paper on Print Permanence" which you can
download from:
http://www.wilhelm-research.com/epson/Epson_Print_Permanence_2005.pdf
There is some information about the technology of paper coatings for
inkjet printers in that which is quite interesting.
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