Finished realMYST, about to start Riven. Can I read the no..

[rms]

Archived from groups: alt.games.myst,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.adventure (More info?)

Well, I just finished realMYST, only my 3rd adventure game after the
Syberias. It was a joy to play, much better than the old slideshow version
of the game. Riven returns to slideshows I guess, but oh well, I'm still
looking forward to it.

Having always had sneaking suspicions that I'm really not very smart, I find
a game like this in which I'm unable to make the short mental leap to solve
fairly simple puzzles (like the tramcar) tends to reinforce feelings of
inadequacy. On the positive side, staying humble is a good thing, and I'm
becoming convinced these sorts of games are better for me than the standard
first person shooters I usually play.

I've also bought the three myst novels and 'From Myst to Riven', can I read
these now before/during playing Riven, or are there some I should hold off
on? thx!

rms

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.myst,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.adventure (More info?)

I'd suggest you don't read any of the books till after finishing both Myst
and Riven, because at least half the enjoyment of the games comes from
deducing the rich history the worlds are steeped in. The books are best
read afterwards, to fill in gaps. That's my opinion anyway. I'm also a bit
of a purist, and for some reason I feel it's often best to follow a series
of such works in the same order as the author created them, even if the
story segements aren't in fact in chronological order. Dunno why, or if
anyone else feels that way.

Tom

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.myst,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.adventure (More info?)

rms wrote:

><snip>
> Having always had sneaking suspicions that I'm really not very smart, I find
> a game like this in which I'm unable to make the short mental leap to solve
> fairly simple puzzles (like the tramcar) tends to reinforce feelings of
> inadequacy.
><snip>

Did you "solve" it? The very simple answer that makes the maze a trivial
exercise can't be solved in the normal sense but is given to you by a
teaching tool elsewhere in the Myst game. If you missed the instruction
tool or did not suspected its importance, no amount of "smarts" will help.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.myst,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.adventure (More info?)

Here, rms <rsquires@flashremove.net> wrote:
>
> Having always had sneaking suspicions that I'm really not very smart, I find
> a game like this in which I'm unable to make the short mental leap to solve
> fairly simple puzzles (like the tramcar) tends to reinforce feelings of
> inadequacy.

I *am* smart -- and I play a lot of these games -- and I didn't figure
out the clever solution to the tram car maze.

One nice thing about the game, of course, is that you don't need to
figure out the clever solution.

One problem with the game, of course, is that -- because you don't
need to -- a lot of people *don't*. Which means that they (I) spend a
lot of boring mapping time.

It's a tough game design issue.

--Z

"And Aholibamah bare Jeush, and Jaalam, and Korah: these were the borogoves..."
*
* Make your vote count. Get your vote counted.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.myst,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.adventure (More info?)

[SPOILERS]

























"Robert Gault" <robert.gault@worldnet.att.net> wrote:

> rms wrote:
>
>><snip>
>> Having always had sneaking suspicions that I'm really not very smart, I find
>> a game like this in which I'm unable to make the short mental leap to solve
>> fairly simple puzzles (like the tramcar) tends to reinforce feelings of
>> inadequacy.
>
> Did you "solve" it? The very simple answer that makes the maze a trivial
> exercise can't be solved in the normal sense but is given to you by a
> teaching tool elsewhere in the Myst game.

Er... What's the "teaching tool"? I don't think that I used any to solve
the maze puzzle. I just ran around listening to the tramcar sounds when
it stopped.

--
Stas Starkov

"My misspent, dope smoking youth has finally paid off - I think I
understood a fair amount of that post."
-- "Geekly" at alt.fan.tarantino

 

[rms]

Archived from groups: alt.games.myst,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.adventure (More info?)

> > Did you "solve" it? The very simple answer that makes the maze a trivial
> > exercise can't be solved in the normal sense but is given to you by a
> > teaching tool elsewhere in the Myst game.
>
> Er... What's the "teaching tool"? I don't think that I used any to solve
> the maze puzzle. I just ran around listening to the tramcar sounds when
> it stopped.

He means the Rotation Simulator in Mechanical Age. And no, I did not
snap to that either, listening to the rotation sound instead. It never
occurred to me to connect sound with direction.

rms

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.myst,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.adventure (More info?)

*** BIG SPOILERS ***





































> You got lucky! Your method will not work if the maze contains circular
> loops, one way doors, or other complications. Even then your trial and
> error approach will never give the shortest path.
>

Actually, it does make it rather easy to get the shortest path, if you just
know the sounds correspond to directions - from the first junction after the
vehicle descends into the maze, if you rotate the vehicle through 360
degrees, you can see there is only one way you can go, which is north,
therefore the sound you hear there (ding, I think) is north. A BIG leap of
intuition if you haven't done the mechanical age yet, however, and still
difficult to spot if you have. From the next junction, I think there is
again only one way to go, with a different sound, so now you have two unique
sounds, and two unique directions. Not much, but you still might have a
chance of spotting the connection. Once you reach the first combination
junction, and get two sounds played simultaneously, that's a very big clue
(think to yourself, "north-west", "ding-rattle", or whatever the sounds
were - hmm). I think these are quite adequate hints for a mid-range to high
difficulty puzzle.

For the record, the first time I ever played the game (this was with a
friend, however, so you can probably count two brains working
simultaneously), we got about half way through the maze just pressing random
buttons, realised we were lost, backtracked right back to the start, then
got about half way again trying to map the thing out manually on paper but
gave up after the tracks started to curve around, then finally we spotted
the connection to sounds made.

We still mapped out the ENTIRE caverns though, to see if there were any
other interesting places the tram went, but unfortunately there weren't :-(

I was slightly disappointed with the way the tram system was built in
RealMYST, though - it resembled the original, but had a few very big
differences: the interior of the tram was constructed differently (didn't
have those spikes on the ceiling, for one), it had a completely different
window on the front, the symbol was missing from the far side of the tram
(you can see it if you walk right round the back of the vehicle before
boarding it at the top of the shaft), the door to the station had a
pointless circular pattern added to it, the maze itself was very different
(tracks criss cross & all sorts), and there was a whole "station" room at
the end of the tracks that wasn't in the original - uneccessary changes, in
my opinion. The way the tram door just lined up perfectly with the excit
tunnel in the original was preferable to a pointless extra room you can't do
anything in.

And worst, they didn't make the one change I would have appreciated in the
maze - a better look at cavern walls, perhaps some interesting underground
features like lakes, lava from the generator on the surface, occasional
shafts of light from the surface, etc. The journals suggest Atrus built the
tram to explore the caverns, so there must be something interesting down
there other than empty space in pitch darkness. Seemed rather boring caves
to me, except the occasional rock pillar. Still, this is my only major
gripe about the game (except the simplified cogwheels on the Mechanical age
starting island - the original had some wheels with much finer teeth,
Realmyst only has one type)

Tom

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.myst,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.adventure (More info?)

> *** BIG SPOILERS ***
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>> You got lucky! Your method will not work if the maze contains circular
>> loops, one way doors, or other complications. Even then your trial and
>> error approach will never give the shortest path.

I think my explanation was quite bad -- you didn't understand me.

> Actually, it does make it rather easy to get the shortest path, if you just
> know the sounds correspond to directions - from the first junction after the
> vehicle descends into the maze, if you rotate the vehicle through 360
> degrees, you can see there is only one way you can go, which is north,
> therefore the sound you hear there (ding, I think) is north. A BIG leap of
> intuition if you haven't done the mechanical age yet, however, and still
> difficult to spot if you have. From the next junction, I think there is
> again only one way to go, with a different sound, so now you have two unique
> sounds, and two unique directions. Not much, but you still might have a
> chance of spotting the connection. Once you reach the first combination
> junction, and get two sounds played simultaneously, that's a very big clue
> (think to yourself, "north-west", "ding-rattle", or whatever the sounds
> were - hmm).

That's exactly how I solved the puzzle.

--
Stas Starkov

"My misspent, dope smoking youth has finally paid off - I think I
understood a fair amount of that post."
-- "Geekly" at alt.fan.tarantino

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.myst,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.adventure (More info?)

In article <c834ik$l9l$1@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk> "Tom McEwan" <captaininsanity@ONAYAMSPAYuk2.co.uk> writes:
>I'm also a bit
>of a purist, and for some reason I feel it's often best to follow a series
>of such works in the same order as the author created them, even if the
>story segements aren't in fact in chronological order. Dunno why, or if
>anyone else feels that way.

This came up over on one of the interactive fiction newsgroups just a little
while ago. The few responses I saw there (so far anyway) agree with you.
The games were meant to be played in the order they were made/released.
Whether or not they made them out of chronological order on purpose, who
knows? But the games are going to be designed with past releases in mind.
If you play them out of release order, things may not make as much sense
even though going in time line order seems to make sense.

--
. . . . -- James Marshall (ORI) * ,
,. -- )-- , , . -- )-- , marshall@astro.umd.edu
' ' http://www.astro.umd.edu/~marshall '''
"Astronomy is a dyslexic's nightmare." , *

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.myst,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.adventure (More info?)

The books ( the first two, anyway) were released after Myst (1993), but
before Riven (late 1997). Robyn Miller left Cyan shortly thereafter, and
Rand finished the third book by himself in '98.

Any way, I read the first book ("The Book of Atrus" 1995) before I started
Riven, and don't feel there was any distraction from the game. Since the
books are about the people, not the puzzles, and the Ages are different, I
found it added a depth of believability both to the "technology" of creating
Ages and Books, and to the conflict between Atrus and his father, basically
an arrogant and vain - but dangerous - man who refused to admit that his son
had more talent than he. Knowing that didn't detract from the game, in fact
added a certain cool dread to the moment one finally meets Gehn. Since the
bad relationship is stated in the opening video in Riven, and is, in fact,
the basic premise to the game, nothing is really "spoiled."

I'd say, read the books... maybe even concurrent with playing the game (and
become a real Mysthead, obsessive and boring to your friends <grin>)

I felt the books also added a nice familiarity to the opening parts of Uru,
by the way - entering the cleft on the hill behind Zandi's trailer was
almost like "coming home," since the scene was thoroughly described (without
the puzzles, of course, don't worry) as Atrus' foster home in the first
book. As an aside, the book makes a point of never mentioning where the
"cleft in the side of an extinct volcano" is, in fact it's not even clear
for a while that it's on Earth. The overwhelming feeling is that it's in
the North African desert, perhaps Algeria or Libya. I was disappointed when
Cyan moved it to New Mexico...

~RL

 

[rms]

Archived from groups: alt.games.myst,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.adventure (More info?)

> Any way, I read the first book ("The Book of Atrus" 1995) before I started
> Riven, and don't feel there was any distraction from the game. Since the
> books are about the people, not the puzzles, and the Ages are different,
I
> found it added a depth of believability both to the "technology" of
creating
> Ages and Books, and to the conflict between Atrus and his father,
basically
> an arrogant and vain - but dangerous - man who refused to admit that his
son
> had more talent than he. Knowing that didn't detract from the game, in
fact
> added a certain cool dread to the moment one finally meets Gehn. Since
the
> bad relationship is stated in the opening video in Riven, and is, in fact,
> the basic premise to the game, nothing is really "spoiled."

Yay! I really wanted to at least start reading the first book. This is
good news.

> I'd say, read the books... maybe even concurrent with playing the game
(and
> become a real Mysthead, obsessive and boring to your friends <grin>)

This was actually the goal I had in mind in buying the books

BTW, if you haven't looked through "From Myst To Riven" you should do
so, as it is full of great pictures and background on the games'
development. I started reading it, but alas almost immediately had to stop,
as it is chock-full of spoilers!

rms

>As an aside, the book makes a point of never mentioning where the
> "cleft in the side of an extinct volcano" is, in fact it's not even clear
> for a while that it's on Earth. The overwhelming feeling is that it's in
> the North African desert, perhaps Algeria or Libya. I was disappointed
when
> Cyan moved it to New Mexico...

I live in NM, did they give a specific site?

rms