Sign in with
Sign up | Sign in
Your question

AMD Build - Near and Far future. No Intel

Tags:
Last response: in CPUs
Share
September 5, 2006 12:55:39 AM

I'm waiting for DX10 to upgrade my computer (i'm on K7 and AGP8x still) and i want in the far future to have a 4x4 system (just read C2D is a dead end system since it has no upgradeability) but since i'll be getting a whole new system come january, i'd like your guys opinion on what i should get in january before 4x4 comes out in 2008 (the athlon version obviously, i don't want the opty version that's being released in 2Q2007) I figured i'd be getting a crappy mobo and a cheap cpu with some sweet ram and a hot gfx card to port over to 4x4 once it releases.

What do you guys think i should do come january in regards to eventually having a 4x4 Athlon system (release 2008)? I mean, i'm being forced to upgrade due to dx10, but if not for dx10 i'd simply wait for 4x4 to upgrade. And i'd rather not blow my entire load onto a system in january if i'm just going to upgrade a year later.

More about : amd build future intel

a b à CPUs
September 5, 2006 1:00:44 AM

Quote:
I'm waiting for DX10 to upgrade my computer (i'm on K7 and AGP8x still) and i want in the far future to have a 4x4 system (just read C2D is a dead end system since it has no upgradeability) but since i'll be getting a whole new system come january, i'd like your guys opinion on what i should get in january before 4x4 comes out in 2008 (the athlon version obviously, i don't want the opty version that's being released in 2Q2007) I figured i'd be getting a crappy mobo and a cheap cpu with some sweet ram and a hot gfx card to port over to 4x4 once it releases.

What do you guys think i should do come january in regards to eventually having a 4x4 Athlon system (release 2008)? I mean, i'm being forced to upgrade due to dx10, but if not for dx10 i'd simply wait for 4x4 to upgrade. And i'd rather not blow my entire load onto a system in january if i'm just going to upgrade a year later.


Core 2 Duo us a dead end system? Where did you read this? Could you link us all?

Core 2 Duo is nowhere near a dead end system. It offers an upgrade path to Intel's Quad Core Kentsfield processor. Heck current 965 and 975 based chipsets have no problem reaching and exceeding 400MHz FSB. It's far from a dead end system.

I'd love to see where you read this.
September 5, 2006 1:10:29 AM

Quote:
I'm waiting for DX10 to upgrade my computer (i'm on K7 and AGP8x still) and i want in the far future to have a 4x4 system (just read C2D is a dead end system since it has no upgradeability) but since i'll be getting a whole new system come january, i'd like your guys opinion on what i should get in january before 4x4 comes out in 2008 (the athlon version obviously, i don't want the opty version that's being released in 2Q2007) I figured i'd be getting a crappy mobo and a cheap cpu with some sweet ram and a hot gfx card to port over to 4x4 once it releases.

What do you guys think i should do come january in regards to eventually having a 4x4 Athlon system (release 2008)? I mean, i'm being forced to upgrade due to dx10, but if not for dx10 i'd simply wait for 4x4 to upgrade. And i'd rather not blow my entire load onto a system in january if i'm just going to upgrade a year later.


Core 2 Duo us a dead end system? Where did you read this? Could you link us all?

Core 2 Duo is nowhere near a dead end system. It offers an upgrade path to Intel's Quad Core Kentsfield processor. Heck current 965 and 975 based chipsets have no problem reaching and exceeding 400MHz FSB. It's far from a dead end system.

I'd love to see where you read this.

He must have been at Sharikapoo-poos site.
Related resources
September 5, 2006 1:23:19 AM

yeah, ruling out 1 company because you thinkt here worse or you hate their name is just ignorant. you really shouldn't buy with too much of a view of upgradablity in mind anyway as your just not going to get it. upgradeability is less profetable for amd and intel and mobo makers and chipset makers thus systems don't tend to be upgradeable for very long.
a b à CPUs
September 5, 2006 1:30:14 AM

Quote:
yeah, ruling out 1 company because you thinkt here worse or you hate their name is just ignorant. you really shouldn't buy with too much of a view of upgradablity in mind anyway as your just not going to get it. upgradeability is less profetable for amd and intel and mobo makers and chipset makers thus systems don't tend to be upgradeable for very long.


Problem is you have fanboys on both sides.

The Intel Fanboys are claiming that Intel still have some cards to play. They have 45nm early next year and they have there Communication Streaming Architecture (CSA) being implemented the same way as Hypertransport as well as there Intergrated Memory Contoller on the way.

The AMD fanboys claim they still have the 65nm card to play as well as AM3 and some tweaks for the new K8 revision known as K8L.

Problem is that, if you look at it this way. No matter the tweaks AMD plays, Intel will be ahead with Core 2 at least until the next gen. I mean they'll go back and forth. Intel winning for a while then AMD.. but in the end Conroe will regin over K8.

AMD's real answer will be the K10... which will start things up all over again. So we don't buy for what's coming out.. we buy for the present. Core2 systems have a clear upgrade path with Intel's Quad Core Kentsfield.. anyone telling you otherwise is a n00b who is just waiting to be owned by me.
September 5, 2006 1:30:37 AM

Quote:
I'm waiting for DX10 to upgrade my computer (i'm on K7 and AGP8x still) and i want in the far future to have a 4x4 system (just read C2D is a dead end system since it has no upgradeability) but since i'll be getting a whole new system come january, i'd like your guys opinion on what i should get in january before 4x4 comes out in 2008 (the athlon version obviously, i don't want the opty version that's being released in 2Q2007) I figured i'd be getting a crappy mobo and a cheap cpu with some sweet ram and a hot gfx card to port over to 4x4 once it releases.

What do you guys think i should do come january in regards to eventually having a 4x4 Athlon system (release 2008)? I mean, i'm being forced to upgrade due to dx10, but if not for dx10 i'd simply wait for 4x4 to upgrade. And i'd rather not blow my entire load onto a system in january if i'm just going to upgrade a year later.


I hope you didn't get that info off me :twisted: lol.

Core 2 isn't a "dead end" system, but it won't have as long of lifespan as AM2. And if your planning on getting 4x4 thats when kentsfield will come out and i think it will be better for cheaper..possibly. Anyway if you want longevity just get a x2 3800 with a good AM2 mobo and RAM and then upgrade in a year-year and a half and get a DX10 vid card and an AM3 processor. I hopwe that will work out because thats my plan.

EDIT: up farther i mean that i think kentsfield will be better and cheaper. But both are usless since we can't even use dual core fully.
a c 478 à CPUs
September 5, 2006 1:43:59 AM

Quote:
I'm waiting for DX10 to upgrade my computer (i'm on K7 and AGP8x still) and i want in the far future to have a 4x4 system (just read C2D is a dead end system since it has no upgradeability)...


You are being fed some bad information. Which site did you read that misleading information?
September 5, 2006 1:48:41 AM

Why not intel, thats ridiculous..... C2D has just as much upgradability as any other processor does, you should refer to the platform it self (lga 775). Intels platforms can last longer as they dont have to change the die characteristics when changing memory controlers, they can just switch out chipsets. Both have good strategies how ever their platforms are going to evolve and change. I doubt am2 has any more of a future, then socket 775. Intel beleive it or not has a good processor on their hands and is set for the future.
September 5, 2006 1:58:43 AM

Quote:
yeah, ruling out 1 company because you thinkt here worse or you hate their name is just ignorant. you really shouldn't buy with too much of a view of upgradablity in mind anyway as your just not going to get it. upgradeability is less profetable for amd and intel and mobo makers and chipset makers thus systems don't tend to be upgradeable for very long.


Problem is you have fanboys on both sides.

The Intel Fanboys are claiming that Intel still have some cards to play. They have 45nm early next year and they have there Communication Streaming Architecture (CSA) being implemented the same way as Hypertransport as well as there Intergrated Memory Contoller on the way.

The AMD fanboys claim they still have the 65nm card to play as well as AM3 and some tweaks for the new K8 revision known as K8L.

Problem is that, if you look at it this way. No matter the tweaks AMD plays, Intel will be ahead with Core 2 at least until the next gen. I mean they'll go back and forth. Intel winning for a while then AMD.. but in the end Conroe will regin over K8.

AMD's real answer will be the K10... which will start things up all over again. So we don't buy for what's coming out.. we buy for the present. Core2 systems have a clear upgrade path with Intel's Quad Core Kentsfield.. anyone telling you otherwise is a n00b who is just waiting to be owned by me.

exactly, very well said
September 5, 2006 2:12:27 AM

Best idea is see how things have played out, and wait untill you are actually ready to buy. Any advice we would give you now will be basicly worthless in 5 months. By then kentsfield will be out, you will see how intel and amd processors are progressing.
September 5, 2006 2:13:48 AM

Quote:
I am curious though, what would be the motivation for putting an AM3 into an AM2 socket that will cripple any new features AM3 brings over AM2?

Interesting. AM2 was (I suspect) just a "bridge" to AM3, K8L etc., so I don't think anything would be crippled.

If that's not the case, I don't see a point of AM2...

AM3 will support DDR3, AM2 does not. There is one for certain as these specs have already been offically announced by AMD.

I am not arguing against AM3 and socket compatibility, what I am questioning is do I really want to invest in a socket today that will be compatible but not completely support all featurs of a shiny new processor I would buy tomorrow.

It's just me, really, I would not feel I made a good purchase if for some reason I left capability on the table....

Jack

I don't think the DDR3 will make much of a difference... look at what DDR2 did. I'm just looking at the processors that will be out by then. They will be better than any AM2 offerings so i will still see a performance increase.
September 5, 2006 2:13:55 AM

Why the hell are you asking for advice regarding a build five months in the future? Any advice provided now will be completely useless then.
September 5, 2006 2:19:33 AM

Is it just me or did S478 and so far LGA775 seem to last longer than S754 (was only current a few months), S940 (aside from opterons, there was just the FX51 iirc), and S939 (2 years or so?)

I wasnt really interested in intel untill a couple of months or so, so I could be slightly inaccurate, but tbh the platforms seem to last just as long.

Plus, with intel, the lack of an IMC means there are usually 'bridge' chipsets. Your AM3 with DDR3 support will require a new CPU, mobo, and RAM.

When DDR3 is released, all an Intel owner needs to change to use it is Mobo/RAM. There will likely be something like the ASrock 775Dual-Vista to allow DDR2 to be used with the new CPUs, etc etc.
September 5, 2006 2:26:18 AM

Maybe i'm just speculating. But it seems that it will last a long time with just cpu/gpu upgrades. I won't upgrade the mobo until K10 or whatever is best at the time.
September 5, 2006 2:30:40 AM

Hi Korsen, I'm going to be buying a new car in 2008, can you tell me what car I should buy?


Sweet Baby Jebus.

God preserve us from idiots.

Look: The date is 5th September 2006. It is NOT January 2007.

When it IS January 2007, AND you are ready to buy a PC (or parts thereof), AND you have an ACTUAL DOILLAR FIGURE TO SPEND, THEN you are invited to return and ask for advice.

Meantime, you come in here wasting everyone's time, and wanting pure speculation FOR NO REASON WHATSOEVER EXCEPT THAT YOU ARE RETARDED.

Now, go away and find something useful to do until January.

Note: ALL PCs are "dead ends". PCs available in 2007 will be the same dead end as systems today. The PC industry is the DEFINITION of "planned obsolesence". DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND THAT?
September 5, 2006 2:57:08 AM

I've been corrected by the intelligent people on this thread.

God preserve ME from dickheads like you mobius.

I didn't waste anyone's time. I didn't force anybody to respond and waste their time on my question. Cars all do the same things. They all drive, they all handle, they all carry stuff. It'll be that way for the next thousand years. It's not the same with computers obviously because they never stay the same for long. If you feel the need to insult people because of your obnoxious personality then go stand in front of a mirror.

If anyone else feels like wasting more time, i'd like some speculation on what else could be going into the second socket of a 4x4 system, if there is anything else that's been said in rumors or otherwise. GPU on a chip, PPU on a chip, etc. If 4x4 is simply for processing power and not the customization it should be then i've got no reason to be pro-AMD. I'm only excited about 4x4 because of the extra slot since it's going to be a dualsocket desktop segment instead of being the traditional server segment.

I'd like to also wonder off-topic whether or not physics processing will go directly to GPU's once DX10 releases like ATI has shown might happen as a 3rd card.
September 5, 2006 3:10:25 AM

Anything about a co-processor type GPU for 4x4? (assuming physics could be going on GPU's anyway PPU's are irrelavent.)

if not i'll just be choosing whoever's better between amd and intel.
September 5, 2006 3:16:00 AM

Quote:
Maybe i'm just speculating. But it seems that it will last a long time with just cpu/gpu upgrades. I won't upgrade the mobo until K10 or whatever is best at the time.


My upgrade habits tend to justify a new MB each round, so socket/backward compatibility is not critical to me. I typcially upgrade via new system from scratch, I may salvage a video board and a hard drive but MB, memory, and CPU all get renewed.

The reason, used computers make good gifts to needy kids, friends, and relatives. My last upgrade cycle gave my old system to a neighbors college bound kid. Not the most exciting system, but it let him do term papers, play some cool games and such. He recently offered to return it and told him to give it to a local school or something.

I simply budget with the idea that I will have the MB and memory expense up front.

Jack

Thats makes sense. But since I'm only 17 i don't have kids, or a wife. My mom can barley use a computer so i'll give her this crappy p2 lol. Maybe one day when i have a family and money i'll change how i do things.
September 5, 2006 3:44:48 AM

Quote:


I believe the cool thing about the 4x4 will be the quad core upgrade path to get to 8 total functional cores, this is somewhat compelling. The dual PCIe is existent in today in single socket solutions so that is not terribly novel.

The two socket is just a pre-amble to the torrenza technology, which is even cooler in my opinion. Today, there is no real advantage to going to 2 socket on the DT honestly, it is certainly an AMD sales gimick to keep the enthusiast happy --- more like, I gotta have it to say I have it. Encoding/decoding will be really good on the platform but gaming today will benefit little.

Jack


I dunno. I cant help but feel 4x4 was a knee jerk reaction to Conroe. It smacks of "Oh crap, Intel actually made a great CPU. We werent expecting this. AM2 cant compare. We need to do something fast, and publicize it."

The stuff you mentioned would be very neat to see, and it would certainly fry benching programs, but I think as we see AMD getting its ducks in a row with AM3 and quad core, we will see 4x4 fade silently away. Its just a guess. I do suspect that we will see more non server multi core mobos down the road, but not as the "4x4" solution.

I have no data to support any of that, so it may very well all be pure crappola, its just the way it seems to me.

Peace
September 5, 2006 7:22:21 AM

ECS K7 KT133 AGP X4 s462
AMD Duron 600MHz
128MB SDRAM PC133
GeForce256 32MB
20GB 7200RPM 2MB cache
September 5, 2006 8:14:05 AM

Quote:
Did you read this concept that C2D was a dead end system on AMDzone by chance? How wrong and mislead you have been.

That said, you can spend your money on what you wish to spend your money on.... makes no difference, as such you are mixed up on your dates.

4x4 will be out at the end of the year, before 2007. It will be outfitted with special CPUs that enable two hyperlinks, each CPU will probably be hand selected and sold as a bundle (I am speculating here) special for the 4x4 platform --- I suspect they will be energy efficient like CPUs to keep the total system power consumption down, otherwise AMD would need to figure a way to disspate between 170 to 250 watts --- or about 1/3 to 1/2 of your power supply.


they may release torrenza as well
September 5, 2006 8:25:51 AM

Seeing how well the PPU is going I cant see torrenza making any sort of impact.
September 6, 2006 9:30:21 PM

Lots of people including me fell for the am2 "great things ... full features" BS and brought equipment anticipating a robust leap in performance.

AMD promised "immediate availability" when it inveiled them in late May. LOL.

My MSI K9N Platinum and my Zalman 9500 am2 cooler are literally chucked in an old mail hopper in my shop. Better to cut my losses now and wait for a better deal on a chip.

When your top of the line processor is easily outclocked by a few keystrokes applied to the competition's entry level product, it is time for a fundamental rethinking.

AMD is doing the ultimate disservice to its loyal customers by making promises it cannot keep.
September 6, 2006 10:49:15 PM

Quote:
AMD is doing the ultimate disservice to its loyal customers by making promises it cannot keep.

a fact that AMD fanboys can't accept and don't belive. it must be intel stoping them to do the things they have promised to us.
September 7, 2006 1:45:15 AM

Quote:


I believe the cool thing about the 4x4 will be the quad core upgrade path to get to 8 total functional cores, this is somewhat compelling. The dual PCIe is existent in today in single socket solutions so that is not terribly novel.

The two socket is just a pre-amble to the torrenza technology, which is even cooler in my opinion. Today, there is no real advantage to going to 2 socket on the DT honestly, it is certainly an AMD sales gimick to keep the enthusiast happy --- more like, I gotta have it to say I have it. Encoding/decoding will be really good on the platform but gaming today will benefit little.

Jack


I dunno. I cant help but feel 4x4 was a knee jerk reaction to Conroe. It smacks of "Oh crap, Intel actually made a great CPU. We werent expecting this. AM2 cant compare. We need to do something fast, and publicize it."

The stuff you mentioned would be very neat to see, and it would certainly fry benching programs, but I think as we see AMD getting its ducks in a row with AM3 and quad core, we will see 4x4 fade silently away. Its just a guess. I do suspect that we will see more non server multi core mobos down the road, but not as the "4x4" solution.

I have no data to support any of that, so it may very well all be pure crappola, its just the way it seems to me.

Peace

Oh, I have no doubt it was thrown together to make an enthusiast platform to keep the enthusiast market in their camp. It has been successfull and also even fooled Baron into thinking it is better than the invention: toliet paper.

However, it would be a decent predecessor to torrenza and also provides AMD with a 'unique' platform especially now that they are becoming a 'platform company', something Intel started doing years ago.

Jack

What a D$CK. I am convinced because AS A DEV I need two sockets but not SCSI320 or SODIMM or dual GB NICs or PCI-X so 4x4 will give me a pure 64-bit, 4 core, 4-8GB Virtual host that can I slap a 7950 in (haha just joking).

I thought you said you didn't ride in the small bus.
September 7, 2006 5:48:58 AM

Quote:


I believe the cool thing about the 4x4 will be the quad core upgrade path to get to 8 total functional cores, this is somewhat compelling. The dual PCIe is existent in today in single socket solutions so that is not terribly novel.

The two socket is just a pre-amble to the torrenza technology, which is even cooler in my opinion. Today, there is no real advantage to going to 2 socket on the DT honestly, it is certainly an AMD sales gimick to keep the enthusiast happy --- more like, I gotta have it to say I have it. Encoding/decoding will be really good on the platform but gaming today will benefit little.

Jack


I dunno. I cant help but feel 4x4 was a knee jerk reaction to Conroe. It smacks of "Oh crap, Intel actually made a great CPU. We werent expecting this. AM2 cant compare. We need to do something fast, and publicize it."

The stuff you mentioned would be very neat to see, and it would certainly fry benching programs, but I think as we see AMD getting its ducks in a row with AM3 and quad core, we will see 4x4 fade silently away. Its just a guess. I do suspect that we will see more non server multi core mobos down the road, but not as the "4x4" solution.

I have no data to support any of that, so it may very well all be pure crappola, its just the way it seems to me.

Peace

Oh, I have no doubt it was thrown together to make an enthusiast platform to keep the enthusiast market in their camp. It has been successfull and also even fooled Baron into thinking it is better than the invention: toliet paper.

However, it would be a decent predecessor to torrenza and also provides AMD with a 'unique' platform especially now that they are becoming a 'platform company', something Intel started doing years ago.

Jack

What a D$CK. I am convinced because AS A DEV I need two sockets but not SCSI320 or SODIMM or dual GB NICs or PCI-X so 4x4 will give me a pure 64-bit, 4 core, 4-8GB Virtual host that can I slap a 7950 in (haha just joking).

I thought you said you didn't ride in the small bus.Hmmm...What's with the new sig? You finally admitting to being a hermaphrodite? :?
a b à CPUs
September 7, 2006 11:48:20 AM

Quote:


I believe the cool thing about the 4x4 will be the quad core upgrade path to get to 8 total functional cores, this is somewhat compelling. The dual PCIe is existent in today in single socket solutions so that is not terribly novel.

The two socket is just a pre-amble to the torrenza technology, which is even cooler in my opinion. Today, there is no real advantage to going to 2 socket on the DT honestly, it is certainly an AMD sales gimick to keep the enthusiast happy --- more like, I gotta have it to say I have it. Encoding/decoding will be really good on the platform but gaming today will benefit little.

Jack


I dunno. I cant help but feel 4x4 was a knee jerk reaction to Conroe. It smacks of "Oh crap, Intel actually made a great CPU. We werent expecting this. AM2 cant compare. We need to do something fast, and publicize it."

The stuff you mentioned would be very neat to see, and it would certainly fry benching programs, but I think as we see AMD getting its ducks in a row with AM3 and quad core, we will see 4x4 fade silently away. Its just a guess. I do suspect that we will see more non server multi core mobos down the road, but not as the "4x4" solution.

I have no data to support any of that, so it may very well all be pure crappola, its just the way it seems to me.

Peace

Oh, I have no doubt it was thrown together to make an enthusiast platform to keep the enthusiast market in their camp. It has been successfull and also even fooled Baron into thinking it is better than the invention: toliet paper.

However, it would be a decent predecessor to torrenza and also provides AMD with a 'unique' platform especially now that they are becoming a 'platform company', something Intel started doing years ago.

Jack

What a D$CK. I am convinced because AS A DEV I need two sockets but not SCSI320 or SODIMM or dual GB NICs or PCI-X so 4x4 will give me a pure 64-bit, 4 core, 4-8GB Virtual host that can I slap a 7950 in (haha just joking).

I thought you said you didn't ride in the small bus.

Hahaha... so will many Kentsfield platforms..:p  You're just finding excuses to support AMD. It's quite evident.
September 7, 2006 12:32:13 PM

Quote:
You're just finding excuses to support AMD. It's quite evident.

Nope!
He is just finding excuses to make a dumber idiot of him self. So far, he is very good in that.
September 7, 2006 4:15:34 PM

Who do you work for, Micro$oft?
September 7, 2006 4:55:51 PM

I don't think they employ such morons. More likely, saying "$" and mentioning male genitalia get him quite hot under the collar, so combining the two is a real "Viagra in the veins" moment.
Synergy6
September 7, 2006 5:30:18 PM

"Work hard, study, GET GOOD GRADES (sorry for shouting, this is important!!!!), and the second most important --- study a field that you enjoy!!! Otherwise, life will be unbearable. These few rules have been the secret to my success ....

Jack"


Man, not only can we get computer advice but life lessons as well. Thanks Jack :lol:  :lol:  :lol: 

j/k
!