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Best AGP card out there?

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September 5, 2006 2:11:54 AM

Im looking for a replacement for my 9800 pro, because my mobo doesnt support pic-e... I noticed the 7800, X1600, X800 series looked like they were the best cards for agp. I mostly play Flight Sim X, and HL2 type products... Thanks

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a b U Graphics card
September 5, 2006 2:31:23 AM

IMO...the best AGP video card ever made was the nVidia 6800GT Ultra, you can still find them on the used market...a close second is the nVidia 7800GS or the ATI X850Pro...best bang for your buck would probably be the X850Pro...
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September 5, 2006 2:35:19 AM

Quote:
IMO...the best AGP video card ever made was the nVidia 6800GT Ultra, you can still find them on the used market...a close second is the 7800GS...


7800GS is faster than ANY 6800. The best (stock) AGP card is either the BFG GF7800GS OC or this eVGA GF7800GS. The eVGA is probably faster, as it's clocked a little higher, but the BFG is $40 cheaper ($240 vs. $280) after a $50 MIR.

EDIT: The X850XT PE is faster than the 6800U, but AGP versions are almost impossible to find now.
September 5, 2006 2:36:25 AM

The fastest AGP card is the Gainward GeForce 7800GS+.
September 5, 2006 2:41:19 AM

Quote:
IMO...the best AGP video card ever made was the nVidia 6800GT Ultra, you can still find them on the used market...a close second is the nVidia 7800GS

It's a good thing I'm not allowed to call people complete and uttar f*****g morons these days :roll:
September 5, 2006 2:42:11 AM

Quote:
The fastest AGP card not availabe in the U.S. is the Gainward GeForce 7800GS+.

Fixed.
September 5, 2006 2:50:39 AM

Quote:
IMO...the best AGP video card ever made was the nVidia 6800GT Ultra, you can still find them on the used market...a close second is the nVidia 7800GS

It's a good thing I'm not allowed to call people complete and uttar f*****g morons these days :roll:

Wow how old are you 12? because thats what you are acting like. Your attitude sucks guy.
a b U Graphics card
September 5, 2006 3:05:37 AM

Quote:
IMO...the best AGP video card ever made was the nVidia 6800GT Ultra, you can still find them on the used market...a close second is the nVidia 7800GS

It's a good thing I'm not allowed to call people complete and uttar f*****g morons these days :roll:

Hmmm, good job, I hope writing that makes you feel good about yourself...you're lucky this is an anonymous forum...grow up you child, you are not fit to live in a world of men...
September 5, 2006 3:10:03 AM

Quote:
..you're lucky this is an anonymous forum...

....actually......you are.
September 5, 2006 3:12:46 AM

Quote:
The fastest AGP card not availabe in the U.S. is the Gainward GeForce 7800GS+.

Fixed.I didn't mention availability; and yes you could get it shipped to the U.S., but I certainly wouldn't want to.
September 5, 2006 3:17:51 AM

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yes you could get it shipped to the U.S. for $150 dollars, but I certainly wouldn't want to.

Fixed.
September 5, 2006 3:59:53 AM

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yes you could get it shipped to the U.S. for $150 dollars, but I certainly wouldn't want to.

Fixed.

LOL; why jump through hoops to get a video card not available in the states. By the time you've received the card, you'll have spent $600+, which is too much to spend on an AGP system.
a b U Graphics card
September 5, 2006 9:56:13 AM

Quote:
..you're lucky this is an anonymous forum...

....actually......you are.

Somebody ate their Wheaties. How so, tough guy?
September 5, 2006 11:21:40 AM

I bought a couple of days ago an Albatron 6800GT and it runs at least as fast or even faster than the 7600GS. Just get a good aftermarket cooler and clock it to 6800 Ultra. :wink:
September 5, 2006 2:13:23 PM

Quote:
The fastest AGP card is the Gainward GeForce 7800GS+.


Agreed. The best bang for the buck...7600GT
September 5, 2006 2:31:29 PM

Quote:
The fastest AGP card is the Gainward GeForce 7800GS+.


Agreed. The best bang for the buck...7600GT

Isnt that an PCI E card and not an AGP?
September 5, 2006 2:46:04 PM

Quote:
The fastest AGP card is the Gainward GeForce 7800GS+.


Agreed. The best bang for the buck...7600GT

Isnt that an PCI E card and not an AGP?

Nope, it's just recently been released for AGP.
September 5, 2006 2:51:38 PM

Quote:
The fastest AGP card is the Gainward GeForce 7800GS+.


Agreed. The best bang for the buck...7600GT

Isnt that an PCI E card and not an AGP?

Nope, it's just recently been released for AGP.

I didnt see the link above :oops:  I guess AGP will keep kickin for a little while longer.
September 5, 2006 3:05:56 PM

Let me sort things out:

7800GS > X850XT PE = 7600GT > 6800Ultra > 6800GT

7800GS is THE BEST AGP CARD AVAILABLE, but it's expensive. The X850XT PE is second-best, but the AGP version is almost impossible to find. The 7600GT was just released; it's probably the best price/performance in AGP. 6800U/GT are still good options; they're just not available new anymore.
September 5, 2006 3:10:18 PM

Quote:
Let me sort things out:

7800GS > X850XT PE = 7600GT > 6800Ultra > 6800GT

7800GS is THE BEST AGP CARD AVAILABLE, but it's expensive. The X850XT PE is second-best, but the AGP version is almost impossible to find. The 7600GT was just released; it's probably the best price/performance in AGP. 6800U/GT are still good options; they're just not available new anymore.


Honestly the only thing the 7800GS has over the X850XT PE is shader model 3 support. So unless you dont care about Shader Model 3 the X850XT PE has more raw processing power and is slightly faster than the 7800GS.
September 5, 2006 3:57:28 PM

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So unless you dont care about Shader Model 3 the X850XT PE has more raw processing power and is slightly faster than the 7800GS.


Faster than a 375MHz 7800GS, yes. But did anyone ever buy one running that slow?
September 5, 2006 4:12:42 PM

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So unless you dont care about Shader Model 3 the X850XT PE has more raw processing power and is slightly faster than the 7800GS.


Faster than a 375MHz 7800GS, yes. But did anyone ever buy one running that slow?

Probably not many people. Whats funny is that every comparison I ever saw for the X850XT PE was against the 7800GS OC and Superclocked versions and in most shader intensive games such as FEAR and Call of Duty 2 the X850XT PE out did the OC 7800GS and kept up with the Superclocked versions.

And in Oblivion the X850XT PE even out performs the stronger 20pipe 7800GT in the outdoor areas with lots of foilage and trees.

Lets also not forget that the X850XT PE can be overclocked as well. 8)
September 5, 2006 4:28:37 PM

Quote:
in most shader intensive games such as FEAR and Call of Duty 2 the X850XT PE out did the OC 7800GS and kept up with the Superclocked versions.


Hint: the X850 is not a SM3.0 card, so it's doing far less work in FEAR than the 7800GS. I can't comment on the other games you mention, but it wouldn't surprise me if they're the same.

I do agree, though, that the main reason to choose the 7800GS over the X850 is the SM3.0 support, as the performance difference doesn't really justify the extra cost. But using FEAR as a benchmark is totally bogus as the cards aren't displaying the same graphics.
September 5, 2006 4:31:19 PM

Quote:
Im looking for a replacement for my 9800 pro, because my mobo doesnt support pic-e... I noticed the 7800, X1600, X800 series looked like they were the best cards for agp. I mostly play Flight Sim X, and HL2 type products... Thanks


Take a look at the new 7600GT AGP.
Nearly the same performance of the 7800GS even at 1600x1200, but a lot cheaper.
September 5, 2006 4:33:46 PM

Quote:
in most shader intensive games such as FEAR and Call of Duty 2 the X850XT PE out did the OC 7800GS and kept up with the Superclocked versions.


Hint: the X850 is not a SM3.0 card, so it's doing far less work in FEAR than the 7800GS. I can't comment on the other games you mention, but it wouldn't surprise me if they're the same.

I do agree, though, that the main reason to choose the 7800GS over the X850 is the SM3.0 support, as the performance difference doesn't really justify the extra cost. But using FEAR as a benchmark is totally bogus as the cards aren't displaying the same graphics.

Fear does not offer Shader model 3 support so the graphics on both are the exact same using shader model 2.0 with image quality going to ATI. Out of all the games I mentioned only Oblivion offers shader model 3 support.

When benching oblivion with a 7800GS against a X850XT most testers use bloom effects and shader model 2.0 since the X850XT does not have sm3.0 support. Seeing how bad the X850XT can smack around a 7800GS in Oblivion I wouldnt even want to imagine enabeling HDR effects with the 7800GS :oops: 
a b U Graphics card
September 5, 2006 4:40:07 PM

I also see the 7800GS/X850XTpe as a tie at stock speeds, but if priced the same the 7800GS would get my money.

And IMO the new 7600GT, while not quite as fast as those, is a much better buy than either of those and about equal to a X800XTpe, X850XT, and 6800U in performance. I just can't see spending the extra $80+ for the 7800GS over a nearly equal 7600GT.


Oh, and about GW. You may not like his attitude, but the comment he jumped on was dead wrong (bad advice) and it needed to be corrected. I have just checked a few threads at lunch today and I tell ya, the amount of bad advice being given today (6800GT Ultra best AGP, 6800XT same as 6800GT, etc.) is alarming.
September 5, 2006 4:43:31 PM

Dollar for dollar... AGP cards are inferior to their PCIe counterparts... someone posted a link to a $280 7800 GS on New Egg... and sure, maybe that is the best AGP card (who am I to argue?) Just think you should look into what kind of video card that money buys on PCIe... you're paying a premium by going the AGP route and might find yourself in a situation where a PCIe motherboard and video card runs you the same as an AGP video card possessing equal performance.

Just a thought.
September 5, 2006 4:48:15 PM

Quote:
Fear does not offer Shader model 3 support


Yes it does:

http://tomshardware.co.uk/2006/02/14/nvidias_geforce_78...

Somewhere there's a comparison showing FEAR screenshots with different shader model cards, but I can't be arsed to spend the time looking for it just to prove to you something that's well-established.
September 5, 2006 4:52:42 PM

Quote:
Fear does not offer Shader model 3 support


Yes it does:

http://tomshardware.co.uk/2006/02/14/nvidias_geforce_78...

Somewhere there's a comparison showing FEAR screenshots with different shader model cards, but I can't be arsed to spend the time looking for it just to prove to you something that's well-established.

Ok well mabey it does then.
September 5, 2006 5:07:29 PM

EVGA 7800gs superclocked 460mhz
September 5, 2006 5:11:25 PM

Quote:
Dollar for dollar... AGP cards are inferior to their PCIe counterparts... someone posted a link to a $280 7800 GS on New Egg... and sure, maybe that is the best AGP card (who am I to argue?) Just think you should look into what kind of video card that money buys on PCIe... you're paying a premium by going the AGP route and might find yourself in a situation where a PCIe motherboard and video card runs you the same as an AGP video card possessing equal performance.

Just a thought.


I wish I could just get a new mobo, but I would also have to replace the socket A (Athlon XP) CPU at least....
September 5, 2006 5:44:22 PM

Quote:
I also see the 7800GS/X850XTpe as a tie at stock speeds, but if priced the same the 7800GS would get my money.

And IMO the new 7600GT, while not quite as fast as those, is a much better buy than either of those and about equal to a X800XTpe, X850XT, and 6800U in performance. I just can't see spending the extra $80+ for the 7800GS over a nearly equal 7600GT.


Oh, and about GW. You may not like his attitude, but the comment he jumped on was dead wrong (bad advice) and it needed to be corrected. I have just checked a few threads at lunch today and I tell ya, the amount of bad advice being given today (6800GT Ultra best AGP, 6800XT same as 6800GT, etc.) is alarming.


indeed.
a b U Graphics card
September 5, 2006 6:39:03 PM

Quote:
I also see the 7800GS/X850XTpe as a tie at stock speeds, but if priced the same the 7800GS would get my money.

And IMO the new 7600GT, while not quite as fast as those, is a much better buy than either of those and about equal to a X800XTpe, X850XT, and 6800U in performance. I just can't see spending the extra $80+ for the 7800GS over a nearly equal 7600GT.

Oh, and about GW. You may not like his attitude, but the comment he jumped on was dead wrong (bad advice) and it needed to be corrected. I have just checked a few threads at lunch today and I tell ya, the amount of bad advice being given today (6800GT Ultra best AGP, 6800XT same as 6800GT, etc.) is alarming.


indeed.

Well, at least it's good to know there are experts like yourself who can keep all these people giving bad advice in check. :roll:

Besides it's free advice, and you get what you pay for...lighten up...some folks around this forum take things way too seriously..
September 5, 2006 7:06:58 PM

whilst I was merely agreeing w/ pauldh you seem to want to attack me as if it was my statement. Either you do not know how to operate the reply button or you really want to avoid attacking the originator of the statement. :roll: whatever snaps your panty-hose man...

To put you in your place on this: When ppl come here asking for hardware advice, it is b/c they want the truth. They are not coming here for kicks or sarcasm; that is when they ask for the "best of X". They really want to know what the best component-X they can get for job-Y at that moment. They are submitting to teh "expertise" of the Tom's forums. (that expertise is another argument altogether though lol) When someone here gives them bogus advice and they go on that and buy what was reccomended only to find that it sucks, they are forever jaded from asking again b/c they got crap info. This helps no-one.

We are not talking about a "minor" argument over something like the 7900gtx over the 1900xtx (very close either way) but a generation-old (yet once top-notch) card over a vastly superior card that any forum-vet here would know to be better. It is like the extreme of saying that you need to buy a 1 Ghz athlon for your cpu b/c it was once the best and it owns the core2 chips!

For any moment in time, there can be only one "best" by definition of that word. In this case the question was over the current best, and you were wrong. Deal w/ it.
a b U Graphics card
September 5, 2006 10:46:01 PM

Oh man, I am so glad you showed me the error of my ways. I should have realized before you replied and agreed with pauldh's statement that you were a far superior techy geek than I will ever be. Good suggestion of AGP card to the OP, btw...good job!

Guess what, any "arguement" had in these forums are quite small. Maybe not to someone like yourself who's e-penis and identity is attached to every keystroke and feels the need to protect the lesser geeks. Very admirable!

And, if you read the subject line and the OP's post, it plainly states "Best AGP card out there?" and an AGP replacement for his defunked 9800Pro, not "What is the best current AGP card available to replace my 9800Pro?" Don't project your assumptions onto what you think is the desired answer.
a b U Graphics card
September 5, 2006 11:11:46 PM

Quote:
Well, at least it's good to know there are experts like yourself who can keep all these people giving bad advice in check.

Besides it's free advice, and you get what you pay for...lighten up...some folks around this forum take things way too seriously..


Problem, is some of us want to offer good advice and an accurate answer to the question, especially when other peoples money is at stake. To me it doesn't matter if it's to a customer, friend, family member or someone on this forum, when someone asks for advice on a buying decision, I do take any advice I'd give seriously. And while your mistake was not that bad, it was the third I had read in a few minutes, one of which could have caused someone to buy a 6800XT thinking it was equal to a 6800GT. So while I wouldn't have jumped on your comment if I had read yours first, it was kinda the third strike that made me blow. :roll: SO no offense intended, but honestly, if you don't take things seriously, don't offer advice.
September 6, 2006 12:45:41 AM

Quote:


Oh, and about GW. You may not like his attitude, but the comment he jumped on was dead wrong (bad advice) and it needed to be corrected. I have just checked a few threads at lunch today and I tell ya, the amount of bad advice being given today (6800GT Ultra best AGP, 6800XT same as 6800GT, etc.) is alarming.


I realize it was bad advice that was being given but perhaps the guy didnt know any better? Anyway one can correct such a statement without acting like a little kiddie such as GeneticWeapon.
September 6, 2006 1:53:56 AM

Quote:
The fastest AGP card is the Gainward GeForce 7800GS+.


Agreed. The best bang for the buck...7600GT

Isnt that an PCI E card and not an AGP?

Nope, it's just recently been released for AGP.

I didnt see the link above :oops:  I guess AGP will keep kickin for a little while longer.

Die, AGP, DIE!
a b U Graphics card
September 6, 2006 2:29:08 AM

Quote:
Well, at least it's good to know there are experts like yourself who can keep all these people giving bad advice in check.

Besides it's free advice, and you get what you pay for...lighten up...some folks around this forum take things way too seriously..


Problem, is some of us want to offer good advice and an accurate answer to the question, especially when other peoples money is at stake. To me it doesn't matter if it's to a customer, friend, family member or someone on this forum, when someone asks for advice on a buying decision, I do take any advice I'd give seriously. And while your mistake was not that bad, it was the third I had read in a few minutes, one of which could have caused someone to buy a 6800XT thinking it was equal to a 6800GT. So while I wouldn't have jumped on your comment if I had read yours first, it was kinda the third strike that made me blow. :roll: SO no offense intended, but honestly, if you don't take things seriously, don't offer advice.

I hear you, agree, and am on your side. For the most part, I intend to offer what I feel is good solid advice and certainly an option that I would consider spending my own money on and consider for my own machines and upgrades. I did not suggest a 6800XT nor did I imply it was equal to a GT. My suggestions to the OP for a replacement to his 9800Pro were...
Quote:
IMO...the best AGP video card ever made was the nVidia 6800GT Ultra, you can still find them on the used market...a close second is the nVidia 7800GS or the ATI X850Pro...best bang for your buck would probably be the X850Pro...

As noted, offering honest suggestions and advice on what each of us believe to be the "best" is in the spirit of these forums.

Now, why I still prefer the 6800GT Ultra over the 7800GS or X850Pro, well, that's the subject of another thread...
a b U Graphics card
September 6, 2006 2:44:01 AM

Quote:
Now, why I still prefer the 6800GT Ultra over the 7800GS or X850Pro, well, that's the subject of another thread...

As an owner of a top of the line GF6, the BFG 6800U OC(425/1100), I'd be curious as to why you would take that over a faster 7800GS. STock speeds the 7800GS is faster, and the 7800GS would OC better too.
September 6, 2006 3:03:25 AM

Quote:
Now, why I still prefer the 6800GT Ultra over the 7800GS or X850Pro, well, that's the subject of another thread...

As an owner of a top of the line GF6, the BFG 6800U OC(425/1100), I'd be curious as to why you would take that over a faster 7800GS. STock speeds the 7800GS is faster, and the 7800GS would OC better too.

GW has his MSI 7800GS OC'd to 500/1500 MHz core/mem. Or maybe it's higher.
September 6, 2006 3:06:47 AM

Quote:
Dollar for dollar... AGP cards are inferior to their PCIe counterparts... someone posted a link to a $280 7800 GS on New Egg... and sure, maybe that is the best AGP card (who am I to argue?) Just think you should look into what kind of video card that money buys on PCIe... you're paying a premium by going the AGP route and might find yourself in a situation where a PCIe motherboard and video card runs you the same as an AGP video card possessing equal performance.

Just a thought.


While it's a good idea for people with socket 939 AMD CPUs to go for a new motherboard and PCIe graphics card, some people need to keep an AGP system going for a bit longer because they can't afford to get a new CPU along with that new motherboard and GPU.

In that case, spending more money on the GPU can keep an older system viable for another year or two. I upgraded my 9800 Pro with an X1600 Pro for AVIVO and got a slight boost in Oblivion besides. The system's a P4 2.8 Northwood, so a new motherboard with PCIe was out of the question.
a b U Graphics card
September 6, 2006 3:11:08 AM

And my 425/1100 factory OC'ed BFG 6800U maxed out at 439/1215. Not very impressive even if you consider reference 400MHz core speeds.
September 6, 2006 3:16:50 AM

most definately the best agp card is the 7800gs.it just rocks.

Dahak

EVGA VF4 SLI MB
X2 4400+@2.4
2 7800GT'S IN SLI MODE
2X1GIG DDR400 MEMORY IN DC MODE
WD300GIG HD
520WATT PSU
EXTREME 19IN.MONITOR
3DMARK05:11,582
September 6, 2006 3:42:59 AM

Quote:
And my 425/1100 factory OC'ed BFG 6800U maxed out at 439/1215. Not very impressive even if you consider reference 400MHz core speeds.


That's a decent overclock on the memory, but practically nothing on the core. The opposite of my X600, whose core can OC 115 MHz, but only 10 MHz for the RAM.
a b U Graphics card
September 6, 2006 3:53:17 AM

man this seems like a hot thread.
dont make me put my other 68gt back in. lol :D 
!