My new gaming PC

[Windfish]

I've quite recently finished putting together my new gaming PC. Here are some of it's specs:
Core duo E6300
Gigabyte 965 DS3
1 gig of XMS2 667 RAM
Radeon X1800XT
Seagate 250gb SATA 2 HD
LiteOn CD/DVDRW drive
Coolermaster Cooldrive 6
Lian Li PC-60 plus Case
a Lucoms 19 inch monitor
Akasa 961 heatsink

I'd like to know what you all think about it, its the first pc I've built for myself, but not the first one I've built. I'm going to be taking it to Uni next month when I start, and will be using it for gaming, and work.
Here are some pics I took of it:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/99881929@N00/235903036
http://www.flickr.com/photos/99881929@N00/235906170
And you can view the other ones that I took and posted on Flickr too.
Any comments or suggestions will be welcomed, thanks.

 

[PoweredBySoy]

I bet if you listen closely, you'll hear those wires crying out for help.

 

[shawnpaul3]

Since you're starting college, you are apparently the same age as my son. So, I have to pull out the responsibility card. :roll:

Speaking from way too much experience, be sure not to let that sweet rig take up too much time away from your school work. I know I sure do regret it. And no wise cracks about there not being pc's way back then. Yes, there were also tv's in my time. LOL

You have a nice rig. Depending on what apps / games you will be using, you may want to consider upping your RAM to 2 gigs.

Also, a huge recommendation that I think all folks should adhere to is don't forget to backup backup backup. If you have never worked many long hours on a project / report to only have the pc gremlins come take it away, then you would do yourself a big favor and never let it happen. My brother was recently working on his thesis for his Masters, just about finished, and then gone. Fortuntely, at least, he had a copy printed out. But, you're talking about dozens, if not hundreds, of pages to retype...again.

I wish you many hours of gaming and successful homework.

Sorry, I just couldn't restrain my "Father" side coming out.

 

[306maxi]

I've quite recently finished putting together my new gaming PC. Here are some of it's specs:
Core duo E6300
Gigabyte 965 DS3
1 gig of XMS2 667 RAM
Radeon X1800XT
Seagate 250gb SATA 2 HD
LiteOn CD/DVDRW drive
Coolermaster Cooldrive 6
Lian Li PC-60 plus Case
a Lucoms 19 inch monitor
Akasa 961 heatsink

I'd like to know what you all think about it, its the first pc I've built for myself, but not the first one I've built. I'm going to be taking it to Uni next month when I start, and will be using it for gaming, and work.
Here are some pics I took of it:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/99881929@N00/235903036
http://www.flickr.com/photos/99881929@N00/235906170
And you can view the other ones that I took and posted on Flickr too.
Any comments or suggestions will be welcomed, thanks.

Air should come in the front and out the back (and top). Your airflow is somewhat ****ed up 8O

 

[Natecannon]

Take the time to clean up the wiring.
Other than that make sure you have the proper airflow and you aren't risking running it hot.

Otherwise the specs are good and should hold you up for quite a while.

 

[Aids]

Yeah, just some wire cleaning should be sufficent. What PSU are you using, or did i miss something?

 

[Windfish]

I know that the airflow is a bit odd, but if the duct fan was sucking air out, it would be working against the cpu fan. The hot air from the cpu area is exhausted either side through the power supply and 12cm blower fan. I did a picture to show how it works.
http://img358.imageshack.us/img358/4425/dscf0173ant5.jpg

The psu is this one: http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/ProductInfo.asp?WebProductID=141418 and isn't the one in the picture on the product page, as the back has like a mesh instead of solid metal. I know its kind of cheap for a psu, but I'm confident that its reliable.
I am going to tidy the wires up a bit more, but the temps in the case are definately fine. The CPU core temp ranges between low 30s and mid 40s, depending on what I'm running, and I think it's the duct that helps. The hard drive is in the Cooldrive 6 unit, which should stop that over heating, and the North bridge is cooled by the fan in the cpu duct, I opened the case while it is running, and there was good airflow across it. The graphics card gets air in from the front 12cm fan, and exhausts it out the back, so it shouldn't heat up too much, except that it's a Radeon. And I have got 4 thermal probes in the case, from the Cooldrive, so it's gonna set the alarm off if anything gets too hot. Which hasn't happened so far. The case is always cool to the touch, except the duct for the psu, which was a little bit warm after I was running 3d mark for a bit. I got about 8500 on my first run through of 3d mark 05, without overclocking anything, and I thought that was ok.

 

[DaveUK]

you're talking about dozens, if not hundreds, of pages to retype...again.

That one's easy... buy a cheap scanner with OCR

 

[DaveUK]

I know that the airflow is a bit odd, but if the duct fan was sucking air out, it would be working against the cpu fan

It doesnt work like that. The only thing that would make the exhaust fan work against your CPU fan is that silly duct which would cause the exhaust fan and CPU fan to try and suck air from the same place.

Your diagram shows turbulence, you certainly don't need that silly exhaust fan at the side of your case.

The CPU fan should be blowing air onto the heatsink (which it is). Thus, thermal energy is transfered to this air, which stays risen above the cold air coming in through the bottom should then be expelled out the back of the case as quickly as possible (via the exhaust fan).

Given that you appear to have forgotten that hot air rises, the fact that your one exhaust fan is at the bottom of your case should make it fairly obviously wrong.

*****

Ditch the crappy fan at the side of the case, or switch it to intake not exhaust if you really need added GPU cooling; tidy up your cables, and set the top-rear case fan to 'exhaust' *without* that duct on top of the CPU cooler. Thus, the direction of air travel in your case will be far more obvious... cooler air will be coming in at the bottom of the case and expelled at the top via the case fan and PSU fan. Its obvious really.

The only reason you would want an exhaust fan ducting air from above the CPU is if you were running the CPU fan in reverse (not recommended), or if you are running a Scythe Ninja (either fanless or with a 120mm fan on the side blowing in the direction of the rear of the case). In a normal case setup that duct that you are using does more harm than good.

I've done a couple of diagrams to help you. Notice that I spent about 2 minutes doing this in paint rather than Adobe PS, so no comments about my artistry please! :lol:

Your existing setup:

http://img410.imageshack.us/img410/7545/badcasepd3.jpg

Note the yellow arrows showing the direction of air movement from the fans, and how there is alot of varied direction. This is turbulence. Also note the red arrows showing three fans pulling air in opposite directions ie working against each other. Also note the green arrow showing how air moves towards the top of the case as it becomes hotter . Notice how the yellow arrows don't all follow the direction of the green arrow.

Recommended setup:
http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/6190/goodcaseop9.jpg

Notice that the arrows showing air movement from the fans are showing the same direction. This reduces turbulence. They are also following the rules of air temperature showing cold air from the bottom moving towards the top of the case to be expelled as hot air from the components.

 

[Windfish]

Hot air may rise, but it won't do if its being blown down by the 72cf/m fan in the duct, which is blowing across the cpu and downwards. Besides the fact that the airflow is keeing the pc cool, the case was actually designed to be run like that, as it shows on the sites official page for the case. http://www.lian-li.com/Product/Chassis/Middle_Tower/Classical_Plus_S/M_C_PS_PC-60plus.htm
I can understand people being used to using a front to back air flow set up, but this one is also effective.

 

[DaveUK]

I don't care if thats how Lian-Li designed this obscure case - even Lian-Li can't defy the laws of physics. An intake at the top and an exhaust fan at the bottom of the case is retarded as hot air moves UPWARD. Someone should have told them that at the design stage. Mpilch is completely right.

As I already stated the only reason I can see the need for an intake at the top to blow over the CPU is if you are running a fanless HSF such as a Scythe Ninja.

Even this doesn't explain the (non-existent) logic of having an exhaust fan at the side/bottom of your case. Even with the duct set up as an intake it would still make more sense to have the bottom side fan as an additional intake with the two exhaust fans at the top as this case has. I recommend you look at my (classic lol) diagrams and you will see what I mean about air movement.

 

[Sean618]

Yeah I'll be building my pc sometime soon (i hope :? if all the items ever come in stock) before I start uni. Hehe I didn't get the lecture, it obviously shows that shawnpaul3 thought you were less mature, only kidding, it just shows that no one can be bothered about me as only one person responded to my post in general homebuilt also I'm assuming your british as you linked to scan and I'm assuming shawnpaul3 your american as you said college so there is probably a years difference between your son and windfish. Ok so I'm being picky.

I don't mean to hi-jack your post but is there any advice anyone could offer for a first time builder in terms of actually building the pc? Thanks

 

[DaveUK]

lol... so true

Lian-Li should employ us to criticise their shiat all day.

Or maybe we should just send them a postcard saying 'In case you forgot (excuse the pun) - hot air RISES'.

 

[qwertycopter]

I agree with you, DaveUK, regarding the PCI blower. It is worthless in this case since that graphics card has its own rear exhaust.

However, you are very wrong about the duct design being bad in this LianLi case. The PSU sits right above the CPU heatsink, sucking in the hot exhaust and blowing it out the back. There is a shield that fits over the exhaust to direct the hot air away from the duct intake below it. The top of the case has a fan to exhaust the hot rising air as well. Between the PSU and top fan, heat doesn't stick around in the case for long! This leaves the duct to pull in cold air and aim it directly at the CPU, providing it with a continuous supply of cooler air. Finally the front fan pulls in more cool air, and blows it over a hard drive cage and helps provide cooler air for the rest of the case.

 

[DaveUK]

However, you are very wrong about the duct design being bad in this LianLi case. The PSU sits right above the CPU heatsink, sucking in the hot exhaust and blowing it out the back. There is a shield that fits over the exhaust to direct the hot air away from the duct intake below it. The top of the case has a fan to exhaust the hot rising air as well. Between the PSU and top fan, heat doesn't stick around in the case for long!

You're forgetting that there is an exhaust at the bottom of the case that is working against the setup you mention above. I illustrated this by the red arrows in my first diagram.

All of this is completely inferior to having the side fan as an intake, and all of the top fans working as exhaust. The airflow in terms of CFM taken in and CFM expelled would be greater. Thus, hot would stay in the case for even less time!

The fact that there is an intake at the top of the case means that cold air is directed downwards and then sucked back up again by the exhaust fans. This is simply inefficient. It's infinitely better to have a consistent direction of airflow.

 

[Windfish]

Thanks for trying to help guys, but I can't help but think that some of you are being noobs a bit. I must have read nearly 10 reviews of that case, before I bought it, and none of them criticised the airflow on it. Here's one, http://www.anandtech.com/casecooling/showdoc.aspx?i=2357&p=8
I know that it might seem at first that the airflow doesn't make sense, but seeing as how I've tested it, and others have, and that it works, I can't see the problem.

 

[qwertycopter]

You're forgetting that there is an exhaust at the bottom of the case that is working against the setup you mention above. I illustrated this by the red arrows in my first diagram.

No i didn't forget it. I agreed with you that he doesn't need the blower. However, it doesn't fight so much, like you think. Atleast, not in the one I worked with...

 

[DaveUK]

Even Anandtech's review shows that heat is innefficiently moved away from the GPU.

I'd have liked to have seen their review based on a sensible fan arrangement using the same fans.

Just because something 'works' doesn't mean it wouldn't work 'better' without sensible modification.

I'll say again

It goes against the laws of physics. Air should be moved upwards and out because it naturally attempts to rise as it becomes hotter.

I'm not gonna say anything more, its your case after all. Just be mindful that with some planning and modification you could have a better arrangement than what you have. I'm fussy about getting the most out of my gear so that alone is food for thought for me. Some people are content to take everything they are fed, others like to tinker. Thats why we have these forums

 

[DaveUK]

But how do you know that the PSU is sucking enough air to prevent that intake over the cpu from causing turbulance and creating hot spots. Alot of quieter PSU's have less airflow to help keep them quiet.

Ooo thats a very good point. Note that this case is one of the noisest cases they've tested. Compare it to an Antec P180 for example. Turbulence doesn't help this case, and neither does relying on a hefty PSU fan.

OK ok im out lol...

 

[306maxi]

I know that the airflow is a bit odd, but if the duct fan was sucking air out, it would be working against the cpu fan. The hot air from the cpu area is exhausted either side through the power supply and 12cm blower fan. I did a picture to show how it works.
http://img358.imageshack.us/img358/4425/dscf0173ant5.jpg

The psu is this one: http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/ProductInfo.asp?WebProductID=141418 and isn't the one in the picture on the product page, as the back has like a mesh instead of solid metal. I know its kind of cheap for a psu, but I'm confident that its reliable.
I am going to tidy the wires up a bit more, but the temps in the case are definately fine. The CPU core temp ranges between low 30s and mid 40s, depending on what I'm running, and I think it's the duct that helps. The hard drive is in the Cooldrive 6 unit, which should stop that over heating, and the North bridge is cooled by the fan in the cpu duct, I opened the case while it is running, and there was good airflow across it. The graphics card gets air in from the front 12cm fan, and exhausts it out the back, so it shouldn't heat up too much, except that it's a Radeon. And I have got 4 thermal probes in the case, from the Cooldrive, so it's gonna set the alarm off if anything gets too hot. Which hasn't happened so far. The case is always cool to the touch, except the duct for the psu, which was a little bit warm after I was running 3d mark for a bit. I got about 8500 on my first run through of 3d mark 05, without overclocking anything, and I thought that was ok.

I know you've gone and bought a fan for the rear of it but you do realise that you weren't really supposed to put a fan there at the back. It's just meant to be an air duct. Personally I'd reccomend taking it off totally (looks like you've cut it anyway which will have mainly reduced it's ability to direct air) and just turning the fan into an exhaust. The problem with your system is that it's got air going in all different directions.

Seriously do a test with the fans set up as people have suggested and you'll see a difference

 

[dandano]

I have this case, and it actually keeps everything cool if you use the fan layout they give you. The top fan is an *exhaust* fan. The fan to the cpu duct is an *intake* fan. The fan over the pci-e and pci slots is an *exhaust* fan. And the front fan is intake, of course.

I used my case with an FX-55 and two 6800GT cards in SLI, and it would get too hot without the slot fan, but with it, everything kept cool and relatively quiet. I have since upgraded to a 7800GTX 512 (much quieter), and it doesnt get very noisy even during games (which I run maxxed at 1920x1200).

just fyi

 

[Windfish]

I know you've gone and bought a fan for the rear of it but you do realise that you weren't really supposed to put a fan there at the back. It's just meant to be an air duct. Personally I'd reccomend taking it off totally (looks like you've cut it anyway which will have mainly reduced it's ability to direct air) and just turning the fan into an exhaust. The problem with your system is that it's got air going in all different directions.

Seriously do a test with the fans set up as people have suggested and you'll see a difference

It came with a fan in the duct already, I just replaced it with a more powerful one. And I haven't cut the duct, it can rotate round to direct air in a certain direction, I've just got it aiming downwards, and you can't see the other side of it. I am going to try out the other configuration, that people have been suggesting, and I will post the results in this thread as soon as I have done it, but I'm not doing it until the weekend. And I'm glad there is someone else who has this case, and that can vouch that its intended setup makes for a good cooling system.

 

[qwertycopter]

Some people are content to take everything they are fed...

I hate to be the jerk here, but isn't that what you're asking him to do? If you've actually experiemented with this case, then please tell me and I will shut my yap. In my experience, the default setup works great. Going with the traditional setup works too.. but it is not necessarily an improvement. I think you're just picking nits.

I should restate that this case does have a TOP exhaust fan. So it abides by your demand for physical law. Also note that hot rising air from a GPU will tend to be trapped under the graphics board (not in the OPs case, however). That is the purpose of the side fan and it doesn't some how mess up the air flow in the case.

Anyway, now he's going to test it. I'm confident he won't find any significant change.

 

[Windfish]

I did the test using my original setup, and the suggested setup over the weekend. I tested both setups at idle, with the fans all on very quiet, (which was about half their max rpm). And also with all fans at full, (very loud), with 3dmark 05 running through a couple of times to create heat.
Here are pictures of the case with the duct removed and fan reversed, and the blower fan removed, (seeing as it wouldn't reverse):

Here are the results of the test.

---normal fan setup--
--------
idle (fans all on half power , very quiet)

cpu 33 (eztune)
Nbridge 55.3
Graphics 54 (CCC)
RAM 31.8
system 36 (ez tune)
-observations-
cool air coming out of all grills except graphics and psu exhausts slightly warm
---------
---------
(all fans on full, very loud)
after 3dmark05 was run twice

gpraphics 55 (Ccc)
cpu 31 (eztune)
nbridge 44.5
system 38 (eztune)
RAM 33
-observations-
top fan slightly warm
blower air very warm
graphics hot
psu duct very warm
-----------
-----------

--Suggested setup--
--------------
idle (fans all on half power, very quiet)

cpu 32 (eztune)
Nbridge 52.7
graphics 52 (ccc)
RAM 32
System 37 (eztune)
-observations-
(air is being drawn in through the vacant blower grill)
-------------
------------
(all fans on full, very loud)
after 3dmark05 was run twice

CPU 34 (ez tune)
Nbridge 62
Graphics 55 (ccc)
RAM 42.3
System 35 (eztune)

-observations-
top fan blowing out cold air
psu blowing out slightly warm air
main rear fan blowing out a lot of slightly warm air.
gpu blowing out hot air
--------------------
All temp readings done by thermal probes from my cooldrive 6, except those marked eztune, which are readings for the cpu and system from the motherboards overclocking program. Also ones marked ccc, which are from the catalyst control centre for the graphics card.


Conclusion.
I don't think that the cpu cooling is at all effected by the change in the setup. However the components near the cpu, such as the northbridge and RAM certainly seem to get a lot hotter under load, when there is no cool air being forced over them by the fan with duct blowing inwards.This is when the fan is sucking air out the back, across the components, from inside the case. The graphics card is not effected, as you would have thought, and the change in system temperature is marginal. I conclude that the original setup is the better cooling system, as it makes the most impact on the RAM and Northbridge cooling, which were the only two temperatures that varied significantly between the two setups. I also noticed that the system was cooler under full load in some areas, because the fans were working a lot harder, and that with fans on quiet, they were not shifting a lot of air out. I also noticed that the fan on the top of the case never seems to blow out hot air, and that it would probably be best kept on quiet, to improve the efficiency of the system