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Best Way To Partition? Need some ideas

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September 7, 2006 3:57:09 AM

Hi everyone,
I have a Raptor 150GB, WD RE2 500GB & Seagate 750GB. Memory of 2GB. I would like to split and locate the pagefile in WD RE2 and Seagate.
Pagefile 1 = Pagefile 2 = 1536MB.

Raptor 150GB
1. 60GB OS + Application + Games
2. 90GB My Documents + Software Backups

WD RE2 500GB
1. 20GB Pagefile 1 + Chess Programs
2. 480GB Chess Databases ( at least 397GB will be occupied)

Seagate 750GB
1. 30GB Pagefile 2 + Download Temp(p2p) + IE Temp + Firefox Cache + misc temp.
2. 570GB Collection (Music+Movies+etc...)
3. 150GB Backup (Image of the whole Raptor drive)

Im not doing anything in Video editing and photoshop . This setup is for WinXP Pro general use, games and for future Vista. I also want to optimize this configuration for performance.

Question :?:
1. Would it be better for me to create a pagefile in Raptor maybe in a small amount for memory dump or not at all?
2. From Raptor partitions config: Should I make a different partition for OS and Program Files ?
3. From Seagate partitions config: Will it be better to have a whole image of the Raptor as 150GB ? Im wondering if it is a waste of space...

As I said before my objective is to optimize this 3 hard disk for performance. Is this configuration reasonable? Please suggest or advise..

Thanks for the help :D 

More about : partition ideas

September 7, 2006 4:57:04 AM

Quote:
Hi everyone,
I have a Raptor 150GB, WD RE2 500GB & Seagate 750GB. Memory of 2GB. I would like to split and locate the pagefile in WD RE2 and Seagate.
Pagefile 1 = Pagefile 2 = 1536MB.

Raptor 150GB
1. 60GB OS + Application + Games
2. 110GB My Documents + Software Backups


OK, first some math: 60+110 <> 150 (60+110 does not equal 150)

Quote:
WD RE2 500GB
1. 20GB Pagefile 1 + Chess Programs
2. 480GB Chess Databases ( at least 397GB will be occupied)

Seagate 750GB
1. 30GB Pagefile 2 + Download Temp(p2p) + IE Temp + Firefox Cache + misc temp.
2. 570GB Collection (Music+Movies+etc...)
3. 150GB Backup (Image of the whole Raptor drive)

Im not doing anything in Video editing and photoshop . This setup is for WinXP Pro general use, games and for future Vista. I also want to optimize this configuration for performance.

Question :?:
1. Would it be better for me to create a pagefile in Raptor maybe in a small amount for memory dump or not at all?
2. From Raptor partitions config: Should I make a different partition for OS and Program Files ?
3. From Seagate partitions config: Will it be better to have a whole image of the Raptor as 150GB ? Im wondering if it is a waste of space...

As I said before my objective is to optimize this 3 hard disk for performance. Is this configuration reasonable? Please suggest or advise..

Thanks for the help :D 



I dunno what you've been smoking, but I want to buy some!

But seriously, from what I know, you should put the pagefile on a drive where the OS is not. Secondly, page files are based on amount of system RAM. I've read that it should be about 2 to 3 times that amount.

As far as Temp folders, as set in XP Internet Options, you should make that folder no larger than 100MB (according to PC Pitstop).

Lastly, you might want to switch what you're putting onto your larger drives. The more a drive is full, the worse it performs, and if you fall below a certain percentage of free space, Windows will not be able to defrag the disk. And don't tell me otherwise as I have seen it.

OK, that wasn't the last thing!

As far as making two different partitions on the same drive (one for the OS, the other for what-not), well, I just don't get it. Your system does not read AND write to the same drive at once, but reads OR writes (unless I missed that day in class).

Doing what you've proposed is about as optomistic as panning for gold in your shower. What you should do is to put your OS on the Raptor, then put your Apps on another drive. Additionally, put the pagefile for that OS drive on another drive.

My own setup includes one drive with partitions for XP, Vista, a Ghost recovery point, and the rest is unallocated for future use. It works pretty good, but when I need to recover the system, I need to use Ghost's recovery environment (meaning, I have to reboot using the CD).

As far as to what to backup, I personally backup the OS, Visual Studio 2003 Professional, Office 2003 (All programs in the suite) Professional, Ghost, Updates, Drivers, Settings, Nero 7 Ultra, and a bunch of SDK's. All told, it's almost 20GBs. I save that backup to another partition, encrypt it, and go about my business. And to make things simplier, I make the backup files to be about 100MBs in size and use no compression.

So put your apps and OS on the Raptor, back it up, and put your data elsewhere.


Of course, I could be wrong.
September 7, 2006 2:09:39 PM

Quote:


I dunno what you've been smoking, but I want to buy some!

But seriously, from what I know, you should put the pagefile on a drive where the OS is not. Secondly, page files are based on amount of system RAM. I've read that it should be about 2 to 3 times that amount.

As far as Temp folders, as set in XP Internet Options, you should make that folder no larger than 100MB (according to PC Pitstop).

Lastly, you might want to switch what you're putting onto your larger drives. The more a drive is full, the worse it performs, and if you fall below a certain percentage of free space, Windows will not be able to defrag the disk. And don't tell me otherwise as I have seen it.

OK, that wasn't the last thing!

As far as making two different partitions on the same drive (one for the OS, the other for what-not), well, I just don't get it. Your system does not read AND write to the same drive at once, but reads OR writes (unless I missed that day in class).

Doing what you've proposed is about as optomistic as panning for gold in your shower. What you should do is to put your OS on the Raptor, then put your Apps on another drive. Additionally, put the pagefile for that OS drive on another drive.

My own setup includes one drive with partitions for XP, Vista, a Ghost recovery point, and the rest is unallocated for future use. It works pretty good, but when I need to recover the system, I need to use Ghost's recovery environment (meaning, I have to reboot using the CD).

As far as to what to backup, I personally backup the OS, Visual Studio 2003 Professional, Office 2003 (All programs in the suite) Professional, Ghost, Updates, Drivers, Settings, Nero 7 Ultra, and a bunch of SDK's. All told, it's almost 20GBs. I save that backup to another partition, encrypt it, and go about my business. And to make things simplier, I make the backup files to be about 100MBs in size and use no compression.

So put your apps and OS on the Raptor, back it up, and put your data elsewhere.


Of course, I could be wrong.


Hi..Thanks for the reply...

Sorry about the math I was kind of sleepy.....i have corrected it.... :oops: 

Pagefile
2 - 3 times memory size? I think I will fix it to min=max=4095MB and distribute it evenly on both RE2 and Seagate first partition which is 1536MB each. Source, Source

Temp
I think all the temp folders like IE , Firefox and Download(p2p) are easily fragmented in OS so i located it in separate partition for better management .

I always keep 20% free space in all partition so it will be easy for defragmentation (Diskeeper) or 5% (PerfectDisk)

I make 2 partition for Raptor because its for more security purpose. Preventing data loss if a crash occur, or accidental deleted files and decrease the chance of wrongly deleted data will be overwritten. source

Is it better to have separate partition for OS and Program Files? Or Should I just leave it the way it is in the OS partition? :?: source

Backups
You have a very good backup planning but why do you encrypt it with no compression? whats the purpose of it?

Sorry for the long post. BTW Its Marlboro Reds...Buy two get one free :D 
Related resources
September 7, 2006 4:01:47 PM

Quote:
Pagefile
2 - 3 times memory size? I think I will fix it to min=max=4095MB and distribute it evenly on both RE2 and Seagate first partition which is 1536MB each. Source, Source


Good info about the paging file. What I quoted was from memory from what I read in MaximumPC (I think). The 2-3 times system RAM I used was, like I said, recalled from memory.

Still, according to the KB article, your system paging file needs to be on its own partition on its own physical disk for maximum performance. This means that the disk should have nothing else on it, or the disk should be used only sparingly. Again, set the size to a maximum of 1.5x system RAM, anymore than that doesn't really help, according to the KB.

Quote:
Temp
I think all the temp folders like IE , Firefox and Download(p2p) are easily fragmented in OS so i located it in separate partition for better management .

I always keep 20% free space in all partition so it will be easy for defragmentation (Diskeeper) or 5% (PerfectDisk)

I make 2 partition for Raptor because its for more security purpose. Preventing data loss if a crash occur, or accidental deleted files and decrease the chance of wrongly deleted data will be overwritten. source

Is it better to have separate partition for OS and Program Files? Or Should I just leave it the way it is in the OS partition? :?: source


What I would do is to put your OS and your applications on the same drive and partition, IE, your Raptor. The data for those apps can go on a separate drive. Your Raptor is fast and it should be able to load your apps faster. Since your data is on another drive from the application itself, your system can perform multiple read-writes at the same time.

I would just set your temp file to be no more than 100MBs (and set Windows to automatically erase the temp file and paging files on shutdown), and leave it on your primary drive.

Just make sure you regularly check for fragmentation.

The thing you need to remember is the KISS rule: Keep It Simple, Stupid. Just because you can create a gazillion partitions does not mean you should.

Quote:
Backups
You have a very good backup planning but why do you encrypt it with no compression? whats the purpose of it?


The password prevents others from restoring my system without approval. When you do a system restore with Ghost, it COMPLETELY ERASES (in a sense) all information that was not backed-up. This is very handy when installing Windows (cough)"Updates"(cough). WU has a long history of breaking applications, such as ActiveX controls, HTML Help files, even applications themselves!

For instance, when the update that concerns HTML help files is installed, IIS help no longer works! M$ doesn't even give a shite about it either, saying "would you rather have functioning applications or a more secure system?"!!! WTF!?! There is a workaround that involves using REGEDIT.

As for the no compression thing, that's easy- I am running on an older Socket A Thunderbird (1.33GHz). The HDD is ATA133 but the interface is ATA100. Using no compression on a complete backup (of about 15GBs or so) speeds things up considerably.

Sorry for the long post. BTW Its Marlboro Reds...Buy two get one free :D [/quote]
September 7, 2006 4:39:18 PM

Quote:

Temp
I think all the temp folders like IE , Firefox and Download(p2p) are easily fragmented in OS so i located it in separate partition for better management .


From what I understand, standard defrag will actually not defragment your OS files. (This is just what I've heard and no idea if it's true).

From what I was told, you're actually supposed to run a defrag from the command line (I have no idea how this differs)

defrag x: -v
where x is your drive letter.
September 7, 2006 5:27:15 PM

Quote:

Temp
I think all the temp folders like IE , Firefox and Download(p2p) are easily fragmented in OS so i located it in separate partition for better management .


From what I understand, standard defrag will actually not defragment your OS files. (This is just what I've heard and no idea if it's true).

From what I was told, you're actually supposed to run a defrag from the command line (I have no idea how this differs)

defrag x: -v
where x is your drive letter.

I didn't write the above quote that is being attributed to me.

Go to a command prompt by clicking on START->RUN, then type in "cmd.exe" (without the quotes). Then type "defrag /?" (again, without the quotes). This will give you a list of options for the defrag command.

The -v switch only turns on/off verbose mode, so I also don't see what that has to do with anything, though I am going to try it after this post.

EDIT: After further review, I have found that running defrag from the command line seems to run much faster than the defrag untility you normally use (right-clicking the drive, clicking tools, choose defrag).
September 7, 2006 8:43:29 PM

Quote:


Still, according to the KB article, your system paging file needs to be on its own partition on its own physical disk for maximum performance. This means that the disk should have nothing else on it, or the disk should be used only sparingly. Again, set the size to a maximum of 1.5x system RAM, anymore than that doesn't really help, according to the KB.


Agree.
1.5X =3072MB
So the page file in RE2 and Seagate will be 3072MB/2= 1536MB=min=max
In the OS patition I will set a small pagefile size of min=2MB,Max=50MB for emergency memory dump.Source

Quote:


What I would do is to put your OS and your applications on the same drive and partition, IE, your Raptor. The data for those apps can go on a separate drive. Your Raptor is fast and it should be able to load your apps faster. Since your data is on another drive from the application itself, your system can perform multiple read-writes at the same time.

I would just set your temp file to be no more than 100MBs (and set Windows to automatically erase the temp file and paging files on shutdown), and leave it on your primary drive.

Just make sure you regularly check for fragmentation.


Agree. I might be wasting some space here in Raptor with OS, Aplication, Games, I dont think I will come close of filling it up. Thats why I locate My documents in Raptor so that I can occupied the space left in Raptor. Also from Source,
'This has several advantages beyond those already mentioned. For one, it ensures greater protection against data loss in the event of a crash or bad shutdown, and especially for a wrongly deleted file. When you delete a file, it is usually possible to undelete it so long as the same part of the hard drive hasn’t been overwritten. The Windows partition, and especially the partion(s) of the swap file and temporary files, will have quite a lot of write activity, even during the course of a reboot. By isolating data files from these, you decrease the chance your wrongly deleted data will be overwritten.

Also, MS-MVP Alex Nichol has observed a relationship between the very slow folder opening problem in Windows Explorer that users often report, and the default My Documents hierarchy. He reports that by moving My Documents as indicated here, the problem is resolved in many cases.'

I understand that it if My Document can be located in Seagate so that the OS can perform multiple read-writes at the same time but I think the performance is not really majorly noticable especially when dealing contents in MY Documents.

Quote:

The password prevents others from restoring my system without approval. When you do a system restore with Ghost, it COMPLETELY ERASES (in a sense) all information that was not backed-up. This is very handy when installing Windows (cough)"Updates"(cough). WU has a long history of breaking applications, such as ActiveX controls, HTML Help files, even applications themselves!

For instance, when the update that concerns HTML help files is installed, IIS help no longer works! M$ doesn't even give a shite about it either, saying "would you rather have functioning applications or a more secure system?"!!! WTF!?! There is a workaround that involves using REGEDIT.

As for the no compression thing, that's easy- I am running on an older Socket A Thunderbird (1.33GHz). The HDD is ATA133 but the interface is ATA100. Using no compression on a complete backup (of about 15GBs or so) speeds things up considerably.


Interesting. Any recommendation of a software backup program?

Well Here is the new configuration

Raptor 150GB
1. 60GB OS + Application + Games + Pagefile 1
2. 90GB My Documents + Software Backups

WD RE2 500GB
1. 3GB Pagefile 2
2. 497GB Chess Databases ( at least 397GB will be occupied)

Seagate 750GB
1. 3GB Pagefile 2
2. 27GB Download Temp(p2p) + IE Temp + Firefox Cache + misc temp.
3. 570GB Collection (Music+Movies+etc...)
4. 150GB Backup (Image of the whole Raptor drive)

Is it reasonable? Should optimize it ?What do you think? :D 
September 7, 2006 8:52:07 PM

Quote:


From what I understand, standard defrag will actually not defragment your OS files. (This is just what I've heard and no idea if it's true).

From what I was told, you're actually supposed to run a defrag from the command line (I have no idea how this differs)

defrag x: -v
where x is your drive letter.


Im not pretty sure too :lol:  . AFAIK, during defragmentation process not all OS files will be defragment because defragmentation process is running.Maybe boot defragmentation will defrag the OS before the it loads any process.

Im using both diskeeper and perfectdisk so im not sure about windows defrag. Maybe you can check out this Source or Source :D 
September 8, 2006 12:17:47 AM

I was going to do a quote, but that thing was getting huge.

Anyhow, I am using Norton Ghost 10.0 for my backups. It's easy to use, gives a lot of options, and IT WORKS!

A couple of tips though:

1. Before installing, install Spybot Search & Destroy first. Then install Ghost. The reason? Ghost (and a lot of other programs), just love to add a lot of startup values, making XP boot slower. Anyhow, SS&D will tell you when that's happening and it gives you the option to deny anything like that from happening.

2. When setting up your backups, don't do them on a schedule or when you install new programs. Personally, I install everything, install all the updates (then fix those), make sure everything is working, then I backup the system and leave it alone.

3. I limit both the number of backups and the overall disk space used for them. You see, Ghost can do incremental backups (which are useful), but if you have an incremental backup, why keep the old shite? On that note, you will not need to set aside 150GBs to backup your system. It sounds like your system will be much faster than mine, so you can use compression. Figure that compression will save you about 30%.
September 8, 2006 2:52:57 AM

Quote:
I was going to do a quote, but that thing was getting huge.

Anyhow, I am using Norton Ghost 10.0 for my backups. It's easy to use, gives a lot of options, and IT WORKS!

A couple of tips though:

1. Before installing, install Spybot Search & Destroy first. Then install Ghost. The reason? Ghost (and a lot of other programs), just love to add a lot of startup values, making XP boot slower. Anyhow, SS&D will tell you when that's happening and it gives you the option to deny anything like that from happening.

2. When setting up your backups, don't do them on a schedule or when you install new programs. Personally, I install everything, install all the updates (then fix those), make sure everything is working, then I backup the system and leave it alone.

3. I limit both the number of backups and the overall disk space used for them. You see, Ghost can do incremental backups (which are useful), but if you have an incremental backup, why keep the old shite? On that note, you will not need to set aside 150GBs to backup your system. It sounds like your system will be much faster than mine, so you can use compression. Figure that compression will save you about 30%.


Good Idea :D 

I may try spy sweeper and Acronis True Image 9. So what do you think about my new setup? :!:

Raptor 150GB
1. 60GB OS + Application + Games + Pagefile 1
2. 90GB My Documents + Software Backups

WD RE2 500GB
1. 3GB Pagefile 2
2. 497GB Chess Databases ( at least 397GB will be occupied)

Seagate 750GB
1. 3GB Pagefile 2
2. 27GB Download Temp(p2p) + IE Temp + Firefox Cache + misc temp.
3. 570GB Collection (Music+Movies+etc...)
4. 150GB Backup (Image of the whole Raptor drive)

Is it reasonable to have a separate partition for pagefile in separate physical drive? :?:

Thanks
September 8, 2006 3:57:42 AM

Quote:
I was going to do a quote, but that thing was getting huge.

Anyhow, I am using Norton Ghost 10.0 for my backups. It's easy to use, gives a lot of options, and IT WORKS!

A couple of tips though:

1. Before installing, install Spybot Search & Destroy first. Then install Ghost. The reason? Ghost (and a lot of other programs), just love to add a lot of startup values, making XP boot slower. Anyhow, SS&D will tell you when that's happening and it gives you the option to deny anything like that from happening.

2. When setting up your backups, don't do them on a schedule or when you install new programs. Personally, I install everything, install all the updates (then fix those), make sure everything is working, then I backup the system and leave it alone.

3. I limit both the number of backups and the overall disk space used for them. You see, Ghost can do incremental backups (which are useful), but if you have an incremental backup, why keep the old shite? On that note, you will not need to set aside 150GBs to backup your system. It sounds like your system will be much faster than mine, so you can use compression. Figure that compression will save you about 30%.


Good Idea :D 

I may try spy sweeper and Acronis True Image 9. So what do you think about my new setup? :!:

Raptor 150GB
1. 60GB OS + Application + Games + Pagefile 1
2. 90GB My Documents + Software Backups

WD RE2 500GB
1. 3GB Pagefile 2
2. 497GB Chess Databases ( at least 397GB will be occupied)

Seagate 750GB
1. 3GB Pagefile 2
2. 27GB Download Temp(p2p) + IE Temp + Firefox Cache + misc temp.
3. 570GB Collection (Music+Movies+etc...)
4. 150GB Backup (Image of the whole Raptor drive)

Is it reasonable to have a separate partition for pagefile in separate physical drive? :?:

Thanks

I think you should stick with just one partition on your main drive. No sense in adding more drive letters (which you're going to have a shitload of BTW).

As to having a separate partition on a different physical disk, I actually have my system partition on an external USB 2.0 drive.

You will have to make sure that any downloads you're doing in fact use the temp drives you want them to use. Instead of using partitions (which by the way are limited in number by Windows), why not try the following:

1. combine the other two drives to make "one" large drive(JBOD- just a bunch of disks array), then make a couple of partitions on it (one for data, one for the paging file). Why? Well your system will be able to read and write at the same time while doing both faster. (just like using RAID)

2. if you don't like that, then just use only one partition for each drive, but use folders to store your data. you can still set aside some space (partition) to make a paging file.

BTW, if your drive crashes, you're going to lose all your data regardless of partitioning. At that point you'll need the services of a pro to recovery your data (likely).
September 8, 2006 5:00:14 AM

Quote:


I think you should stick with just one partition on your main drive. No sense in adding more drive letters (which you're going to have a shitload of BTW).

As to having a separate partition on a different physical disk, I actually have my system partition on an external USB 2.0 drive.

You will have to make sure that any downloads you're doing in fact use the temp drives you want them to use. Instead of using partitions (which by the way are limited in number by Windows), why not try the following:

1. combine the other two drives to make "one" large drive(JBOD- just a bunch of disks array), then make a couple of partitions on it (one for data, one for the paging file). Why? Well your system will be able to read and write at the same time while doing both faster. (just like using RAID)

2. if you don't like that, then just use only one partition for each drive, but use folders to store your data. you can still set aside some space (partition) to make a paging file.

BTW, if your drive crashes, you're going to lose all your data regardless of partitioning. At that point you'll need the services of a pro to recovery your data (likely).


Thanks for replying....

Thanks for the suggestion

Well the reason I create a special partition for all the temp folder (Download, IE temp, Firefox temp) is because these few folders get fragmented easily especially Dowload temp. So if I combine the temp with other data I will get a huge fragmented data which is not preferable. In other words I can minimize fragmentation and optimize defragmentation process.

Initially I thought about relocating the My Document to Seagate for all my data, but I will have a lot of space left in the main drive and I want to make use of the space in the main drive too.

Maybe I can do like this :

I can moved the temp partition to raptor so I can separate it from the OS. Also, My Documents will be moved to Seagate so all my data will be in seagate.

For backup partition, should I create it in separate partition in seagate or mix it together with the data partition in seagate?

But im not sure this will be a good idea. :?:

Thanks
!