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adding 3rd chip of ram

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September 8, 2006 10:37:23 AM

I have an Athlon XP 2600+ (333)
2x512 generic sticks of DDR-400
If I stick another 512 stick of crucial DDR-333, is it going to be benificial or detrimental to my system performance?
Thanks for any help.

More about : adding 3rd chip ram

September 8, 2006 11:21:01 AM

It should as 1gb is right on the limit of being enough. You shouldn't be cpu limited.
September 8, 2006 11:31:03 AM

In NF2 boards [assuming it's nf2] I've seen some memory benchmark performance numbers decrease when adding a third stick. It may not matter much to overall system speed, depending on what you actually do. If I had to choose between benchmark numbers and actually having more memory when using large files, I'd choose the memory.

The only answer is to test it and see.

Also, if you are running your memory at 200Mhz now it of course will drop to 166 when you add the new stick of memory [pc2700). That probably won't make any difference though in system performance.
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September 8, 2006 12:22:43 PM

Are you running single or dual-channel?

If you're running dual-channel memory, you'll see a performance slowdown, how much will vary according to what you're actually doing with it.

If you're running single-channel memory, you won't see a performance decrease from the extra 512Mb - indeed, it should be faster (certainly you'll see less swapping under Windows, for example...)
a b } Memory
September 8, 2006 4:25:59 PM

Quote:
I have an Athlon XP 2600+ (333)
2x512 generic sticks of DDR-400
If I stick another 512 stick of crucial DDR-333, is it going to be benificial or detrimental to my system performance?
Thanks for any help.


If your running at 400 mhz with 2 sticks (your board does 400 mhz without issue) when you add the third stick you will likely be limited to running at 333 mhz (or less). So more RAM, but slower system speed. HTH.
September 8, 2006 5:43:10 PM

CPU-Z doesn't say anything about being in dual channel mode. The DIMMs are in bank 1 and 2, so I don't know why its not. The mobo is an Abit KV7. I have not ever flashed the bios. Is it recommended to flash the bios? I noticed Abit came out with this cool little proggie to flash the bios through windows....about time :) 

Thanks a ton for all of your help!!!!!!!!
a b } Memory
September 8, 2006 5:58:11 PM

Your board will not do dual channel. The Nforce 2 chip does not support dual channel.

Correction: I have the Athlon 3400 socket A chip. It is the only socket A chip that will support dual channel with the corrrect MB. ALL other socket A chips are single channel capable only.
September 8, 2006 6:13:56 PM

The NForce2 chipset does indeed support dual-channel. Here is a nice comparison between single-channel speeds and dual-channel speeds:

http://www.digit-life.com/articles2/nforce2-1vs2channel...

The Abit KV7 suprcharg has is built around the VIA KT600 chipset which does not support dual-channel mode.

Likely there will see a bit of a slowdown as the overall speed will drop along with the bus speed, unless you inch up the multiplier. However, if you find load times and dealing with large files is consistantly hitting the hard drive, the extra 512MB will help.
a b } Memory
September 8, 2006 6:18:32 PM

His 2600 will not support dual channel. My ASUS Nforce 2 is running in dual channel with aan Athlon 3400. Not all NF2 boards support dual channel. Most of them dont. HTH.
September 8, 2006 6:32:28 PM

Hmm I guess I'll just leave the memory like it sits. I need to upgrade soon anyways. when I do upgrade I will pretty much have to build a whole seperate barebones kit. Is it a good idea to flash this bios? This will become my kid's PC to beat on.
September 8, 2006 6:34:44 PM

The NF2 does support dual channel. I don't know what processor you have, but there wasn't an offical 3400 for the socket A, to the best of my knowlege. But, that's not what dictates single or dual channel on that socket, it's the chipset. His via chipset may not, but there are plenty of NF2 boards that do support dual channel. Now, if it actually does any good is a different story.

Now. As far as adding memory. I wouldn't hesitate to add the memory if you have it. Running the memory assyncronous to the cpu doesn't always help, and in some cases hurts performance even if running the memory faster than the cpu. So, with that said, it might be better to just run the memory at 333 anyway, so putting the other stick in may not make any difference. Like I said above, adding another stick may make the performance decrease. But, depending on what you are doing with the machine, more memory can sometimes trump overall speed.

As for flashing the bios. It may not be necessary. Check the bios version release notes and see what the new version does. If it fixes a bug that is effecting you, then flash it. If it's just adding a new feature or updating the cpu table, it may not be necessary.
a b } Memory
September 8, 2006 6:44:11 PM

Yeah, your are right I think, the NF2 supports dual channel, but the Athlon 3400 is the only chip that will run dual channel. There is an official 3400 I have one and I paid $399 for it! It says 3400 2.2 in my Device manager and it rund DDR 400 mhz. in dual channel. It runs really better than one might imagine. I have been running Vista Beta 2 for a while with it. Thanks for correting me BTW. And thanks for the good information too.
September 8, 2006 6:45:21 PM

The most taxing thing I do with my machine is play games like Battlefield 2 online. Thanks AGAIN for the quick replies. I'm still curious as whether or not to flash the bios :) 
September 8, 2006 6:46:40 PM

No, it's not the only chip that will run dual channel. I've got a half dozen NF2 boards running dual channel. I'd like to see a link to that processor, cause you've got me curious. I've never seen one before...3200+ was the fastest I was aware....and it runs at 2.2G. Does yours have 1M of L2 cache or something?
a b } Memory
September 8, 2006 6:46:44 PM

The latest BIOS update would be years old by now. Your BIOS likely supports your processor and system very well.
a b } Memory
September 8, 2006 6:48:04 PM

I fairly sure i'm right about the 3400 being the only Athlon socket A chip to support dual channel memory. I am really certain. I'll try and find a link.
September 8, 2006 6:48:45 PM

Quote:
The most taxing thing I do with my machine is play games like Battlefield 2 online. Thanks AGAIN for the quick replies. I'm still curious as whether or not to flash the bios :) 


I added above what I thought about the bios.

BF2 is very memory hungry, so put the memory in and see what it does.
September 8, 2006 6:49:36 PM

Quote:
I fairly sure i'm right about the 3400 being the only Athlon socket A chip to support dual channel memory. I am really certain. I'll try and find a link.


Well. You might be certain, but you aren't right. :wink:

I'll wait to see the link, I'm curious.

Athlon XP, Barton core, 512M L2, at 400 FSB, 2.2G is the 3200+. If you have a 3400+ maybe it has 1M of L2 cache, I dunno. Never heard of it.
a b } Memory
September 8, 2006 6:56:20 PM

I don't know what this article is about, bu t I have very last AMD Athlon socket A processor and it is an ATHLON 3400 xp that runs dual channel memory. Mine is not the mobile version. It is the desktop version.

http://www.amd.com/us-en/assets/content_type/Downloadab...
September 8, 2006 7:01:23 PM

That article is about the A64. It can't be a socket A.
September 8, 2006 7:09:49 PM

Do you still have the machine? Open up system information and see what it says.

In any case, the NF2 supports dual channel, it's not dependant on the cpu. The board may not have it, but the chipset will support it.
a b } Memory
September 8, 2006 7:14:18 PM

I have the machine mothballed for about 2 weeks. I have vista beta on it. I'll be working on my computers stonight. If I get a chance I'll see if I can get a screen shot of the device manager up. I'm still looking.
September 8, 2006 7:46:14 PM

Quote:
Power With The Athlon XP 3400+ And 2666 MHz


I'm sure you know that is just overclocked.

Quote:
I have no idea what this is, but here is the Athlon socket A listed for sale.

http://www.amdboard.com/barton.html

Review!

http://www.amdboard.com/barton3400.html

I think he says it's good.

http://www.hardwareluxx.de/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?u...


If that was an official 3400+ socket A chip, it's news to me. It looks like it was just a place holder for a chip that newer saw the light of day.
a b } Memory
September 8, 2006 7:47:57 PM

No there is an Athlon 3400 xp socket A and it is the only Athlon xp processor that will run dual core memory. I know this for a fact. doesn't matter.
September 8, 2006 7:49:38 PM

thats an article about an overclocked T-bred 2600+. there was no such thing as a socket A Athlon XP 3400+. and most NF2 boards can run dual channel. my dads 3200+ runs in dual channel with an epox board. so it dosent matter what the CPU is its all about the MB. Anything above a 3200+ is going to be A64.
September 8, 2006 8:01:03 PM

Quote:
I have no idea what this is, but here is the Athlon socket A listed for sale.

http://www.amdboard.com/barton.html

Review!

http://www.amdboard.com/barton3400.html

I think he says it's good.

http://www.hardwareluxx.de/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?u...


Im sure you also realized thats a bogus site. note that the 3400+ has a question mark fore the frequency and multiplier and all of the athlon xp chips on that site are listed as being 64 bit while they are in fact only 32. nice try but no luck. and no there was no 3400+. maybe a proposed 3400+ but not a real one. if you have that system try to get CPU-Z on it and take a screenie.
a b } Memory
September 8, 2006 8:15:17 PM

Quote:
I'm sorry, but you are wrong on the dual channel. There could very well be a 3400+ socket A chip, but I've never seen it.


I have shown you a couple of links with reference to the 3400 xp chip. It was the very last Sockety A chip and it was expensive. Athlon64 came out within months of it's release. My 3400 xp socket A runs dual channel PC3200 400 mhz. Ram in dual channel. So I can say for sure it does indeed exist. In addition I have three AMD64 3400 socket 754 chips. two 2.4's and a 2.2 3400 clawhammer with 1024 L2 cache.

Quote:
I do have many dual channel boards though running other 32 bit XP's.


Sure. It is my understanding the 3400 athlon xp is the only socket A chip that supports dual channel capabilities. Again, I may be wrong, but it doesn't matter.

It's been a while, but until recently I had two Athlon XP sytems up and running around the offices. One was the 3400 and the other was an Athlon 2600 xp. That 2600 xp had a VIA chipset and ran like apeshat. I originally had an Nf2 DFI boardrunning my 3400+. I had some problems and bougght the ASUS NF2 Deluxe Ultra 200 cipset I believe. Now, I may be mistaken, it's been a while, but I thought my 3400 was the reason I was running dual channel DDR PC3200. You certainly may be right. I have never sold a computer and I have so many. From Pentium 100 mhz with matrox video cards with 4 mbs. memory to the Conroe i am building. I have it all LOL! ATI, Nvidia, Intel P3, P4, Athlon xps, Athlon 64 754's, 939's, dual core AMDs, dual core pentium D's. I have so much crap I forget what all I have 8O

I will be disassembling/reassembling four of my computers to build a e6600 system in the next few weeks. I have everything but the MB and C2D CPU. Well, I bought the e6600 yesterday. I have never sold a computer. I hate Ebay, but I may have to give in. I have computers everywhere LOL. Sorry if I'm rambling.
September 8, 2006 8:38:54 PM

Quote:
Power With The Athlon XP 3400+ And 2666 MHz

http://www.tomshardware.com/2002/08/21/at_the_last_seco...


Thats about overclocking a chip to the speed of a theoretical 3400+.

There WAS NO 3400+ ON SOCKET A.

The ones you are linking were either never actually stocked or were fakes. There are LOTS of Athlon XP fakes floating about. (pinmod to change multiplier and rebadged). AMD was planning a 3400+ but never produced it.

The settings (11.5x, 400MHz FSB, 2300 core) DID find their way into BIOSes, and so modded (faked) 2600+ bartons (11.5x, 333MHz FSB, 1917 core) that are run at a 400MHz FSB will be read as a 3400+ on these motherboards, rather than 'unknown CPU'.

If you have one, you have been ripped off.

There are some 3400+ S754 Semprons if i remember correctly.

Unlike S754, S939, S940, and AM2 CPUs, the Athlon XP (and the few socket A semprons) do NOT have an integrated memory controller.

As such the CPU has NO INFLUENCE on wether Dual or Single channel is supported.

The two Socket A chipsets to support Dual Channel are the nForce 2 Ultra and VIA KT880. The earlier KT600 does not.

However, a Single DIMM at 1:1 FSB:D RAM will saturate the FSB bandwidth. Dual channel is of negligible benefit to an Athlon XP in the same way that Dual channel DDR2-1066 is of negligible benefit to a Pentium D805 over Single channel DDR2-533.
a b } Memory
September 8, 2006 9:41:25 PM

Ok, pulled the computer out of the closet, it was packed away tightly in a box, fired it up with Windows Vista Beta 2 and under processors in the device manager it is listed as AMD Athlon (tm) 3200+. So, you are right. I had thought all these years it was an Athlon xp 3400. I bought the processor retail at the time from Fry's for $399. I paid $360 yeasterday on Newegg for an E6600.

So, my apologies. I may go over to some other forums and start a bunch of crap over adding a third stick of memory to an Athlon 2600. If I was right 100% of the tiime I would be a lot smarter than I am now. Well, a little smarter being that I'm right 99.95% of the time. :oops: 
September 8, 2006 10:35:38 PM

Add the memory, it won't hurt. If your running the default configuration (Not overclocking) for the computer, the DDR-400 (PC3200) is running at fsb 333.
a b } Memory
September 8, 2006 10:58:04 PM

Pain, I paid $360 yesterday for a E6600 on Newegg. I called today and Newegg refunded $21. Got today's price $339. I didn't have any trouble convincing them it was only fair to give me the price adjustment. :roll:
September 9, 2006 3:23:00 AM

Cool.

Now, ask them if they have one of them XP 3400+ dual channel cpus in stock, and what they charge for it.
a b } Memory
September 9, 2006 6:10:31 PM

Quote:
Cool.

Now, ask them if they have one of them XP 3400+ dual channel cpus in stock, and what they charge for it.


LOL! Hey thanks for the good information. How else would I learn all these things. You know I had an Athlon 2600. Would that chip have run dual core RAM on a NF 2 board? Gave the computer to my sister in law anyway. Swapped out this system last night to free up my Lian Li case.

AMD 3700+ Socket 754
Asus A8N
Corsair XMS PRO LL 512 x 3
Sapphire x800GTO AGP
Maxtor 300 gig 16

I may wait for the release of the Nforce 590 chipset boards due out later this month to build. May decide to just go with the 570 too. The 570 SLI board looks fairly solid. The 590 board shows impressive early benchmarks though. Depends on how long the wait is.
September 9, 2006 7:57:39 PM

Sure, if the board supported dual channel then the cpu would have used it. Dual channel on the 32bit XP wasn't all that great of an improvement though. I would certainly run dual channel if the board supported it, but if it didn't support it I wouldn't be too upset.
a b } Memory
September 9, 2006 8:09:04 PM

Interesting, the socket 754 were the first 64 bit procesors and ran with the NF3 boards. NF3 doesn't support dual channel. NF 4 does. I have an EPOX socket 754 socket with NF4 running SLI with two 7600GT's right now.

I was wrong all these years believing only the 3200 suppored 400 mhz dual channel.

This is an interesting board I have running curently:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E1681...
September 9, 2006 8:20:50 PM

Actually, the NF3 has nothing to do with dual channel, but if you want an nFoce3 board that DOES allow dual channel, look at This Socket AM2 one.

Early S939 boards with nForce 3 were also Dual channel, and later S754 boards with nForce 4 and PCI-E were single channel.

The choice between nForce 3 and 4 is simple. nForce 3 = AGP. nForce 4 = PCI-E. The memory interface is part of the CPU on all Athlon 64 based CPUs.

The thing that decides wether Dual channel is supported or not is the memory controller.

On all Athlon XPs and Socket A Sempron this is part of the chipset, so the chipset decides. The only two that do are the VIA KT880 and the nForce 2 Ultra.

On all Athlon 64s, and and non-Socket A Semprons (i.e.Socket 754, 939, and AM2 ones) the memory controller is part of the CPU. Socket 754 CPUs support Single Channel DDR, Socket 939 support Dual channel DDR, and Socket M2 support Dual Channel DDR2.
September 9, 2006 8:23:48 PM

Quote:
Interesting, the socket 754 were the first 64 bit procesors and ran with the NF3 boards. NF3 doesn't support dual channel. NF 4 does. I have an EPOX socket 754 socket with NF4 running SLI with two 7600GT's right now.

I was wrong all these years believing only the 3200 suppored 400 mhz dual channel.


And this board will be running single channel as it has a S754 CPU.

If you dont believe *me*, read this article from the release of A64.

Clicky


Quote:
The "normal" Athlon 64 is based on the new Socket 754, and the Athlon 64 FX has to be plugged into Socket 940. The different pin count of the two Hammer CPUs is due to the fact that the Athlon 64 FX has a dual-channel memory interface as well as three HyperTransport ports. The standard Athlon 64 only has one single-channel memory interface and one HyperTransport port.


Emphasis added.

Note that this is before S939 was released, when all except the Athlon 64 FX-51 were Socket 754, and the FX-51 was Socket 940 chip, a rebadged Opteron.


As for the Athlon XPs...

Clicky

Quote:
...Nvidia has already begun to develop a fast memory connection for its NForce 2 chipset with the dual-channel DDR400...

...The VIA KT400 did not offer dual-channel DDR400 support....


Oh, and to the Original poster:

Quote:
Buyers enticed by dual channel DRAM should note one crucial thing: in theory, a dual-channel memory link does not bring any benefits since the data rate is limited by the FSB bus's bandwidth. It's fixed at a maximum 200 MHz (Athlon XP 3200+) to give a bandwidth of 3.2 GB/s. Even using fast dual DDR400 memory with an access time of 6.4 GB/s has no effect on the Front Side Bus bottleneck of 3.2 GB/s. With that in mind, it's really not so inappropriate to question dual-channel memory technology on the Socket A platform.

A single memory channel combined with DDR400 - and cleverly connected at the Northbridge - has a bandwidth of 3.2 GB/s. What's more, this solution saves money.


In short, add your 3rd stick of RAM :) 
a b } Memory
September 9, 2006 8:47:42 PM

That's a great overclock on your 805 D. I have this system running currently. For $100 I think the chip it VERY good. I'll use the RAM here to build my C2D next week and upgrade to PC6400 800 mhz. later. May take this system down for a while and use the x1800xt elsewhere for a while too. The ASUS Micro board has a built in video chip, but I hear it's weak.

Pentium D 805 Smithfield @3.4
ASUS P5DLM2-VM Micro 945G
OCZ Gold PC5400 DDR2 667 mhz. 512 x 4
Sapphire ATI x1800xt
WD 74 Raptor w/2 x 40mm HD cooler
Aspire X-Qpack micro case
September 9, 2006 8:55:54 PM

Its not too bad, wish I had gone for a 915, but I'm an impluse buyer :) 
a b } Memory
September 9, 2006 9:01:21 PM

Look at me. I built the system I referred to a few months ago and I'm in deep with a C2D build...with those parts! Neverending upgrades. LOL!
!