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Just built my Conroe System - crazy temps!

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September 9, 2006 7:40:27 AM

Hi, I just finished building my conroe system and when I go into SETUP, the temps on the CPU were about 80c.

I then replaced my arctic silver on the core too a much smaller dose, and yes the CPU cooled down... to a steady 70-75.

Now I've tried even less, and now the temp is all the way up to 90c.

This is all just the readings in the BIOS hardware monitor, and I haven't installed windows on my new HDD yet.

My mobo is the ASUS P5B.

Any help is appreciated!
September 9, 2006 8:49:39 AM

Heatsink fan spining ?
September 9, 2006 8:58:21 AM

Your problem may be that you own an intel ;P
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a c 79 à CPUs
September 9, 2006 9:39:25 AM

Mine is not that hot, but it does report as being significantly hotter in Bios than during windows. I assume that none of the power saving features have kicked in until winodws starts up.

As other posts mentioned, did you clean off properly. Is it seated properly. Describe how much AS did you use.

And remember that there are significant problems with measuring temps on these things, so you might be trying to fix a non-problem.
September 9, 2006 10:36:34 AM

I'd be surprised if it was even getting that hot at all! I have a conroe e6600 in a gigabyte 965-ds4, and when it hits 80deg it shuts down instantly.

Try running the system with the side panels off, and make sure all the heatsink mounts are clipped in fully. I can't run mine with the side panel on yet, but with it off under load the cpu hits about 43 deg max.
September 9, 2006 11:36:49 AM

To answer all of your quetions, yes the CPU fan and case fans are spinning just fine, and I have the stock intel HSF. I used about a half of a grain of rice droplet for the AS.


Oh and just now, I turned on the PC and it started at 70c and now its working its way up to a steady 90c
a c 79 à CPUs
September 9, 2006 12:11:36 PM

From what I understand on-die sensors will limit its speed and therefore reduce its temp if it gets too hot. Can anyone confirm if this is a windows or a chip function, I think it is chip.

If this is not happening then you can't be too hot?

I know that this is worrying for you, but bear with us whilst we think about this, we may seem to ask stupid questions.

What is your airlfow like in your case, how many fans etc.?
What is Vcore according to you mobo?
What PSU are you using and what is in the rest of the system (just for completeness I can't think of anything specific at the moment)
What Bios version are you using?
September 9, 2006 12:26:26 PM

Quote:
From what I understand on-die sensors will limit its speed and therefore reduce its temp if it gets too hot. Can anyone confirm if this is a windows or a chip function, I think it is chip.


I think it is a function of the CPU on-die sensor in cooperation with the chipset/motherboard. Way back ago, Tom's did an article/videos where they pulled a Heatsink off a Intel and AMD chip with some 'spectacular' results.

Find those articles and you have your answer.
September 9, 2006 12:38:25 PM

The airflow, from what I think, is great. I'm running the system in a Lian Li with 4 case fans.

Here is a list of the parts:

Case http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E1681...
PSU http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E1681...
Mobo http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E1681...
RAM http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E1682...
HDD http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E1682...


VCORE is at 1.200 - 1.256v, may drop down to 1.192v, and the BIOS version is v02.58 American Megatrends.
September 9, 2006 12:45:20 PM

The new Conroe chips do not run hot. They should be running cold as ice cubes! :?: Ok I edited this post so I dont have to hear any more crap about some misinfo I posted on the temps. Read on through the whole thread and theres some good info in there from several posters.
September 9, 2006 12:48:08 PM

Quote:
The new Conroe chips do run hot. They should be running 50-60C idle and up to 80C Load. Stop pussy footing around and buy a Thermaltake Big Water System they sell for $159 at Fry's. And fit every socket CPU out there. Water is the way, especially if your into overclocking. Temps rise slow and drop fast. Beats rise fast and drop slow! You can also check your bios settings for your fan. Disable the automatic cpu fan speed control and the HSF will run at max speed all the time. Good luck. :wink:


Thanks, but the fact that the hardware monitor is showing that its running at almost 90c is still a problem.
a c 79 à CPUs
September 9, 2006 12:55:30 PM

Quote:
From what I understand on-die sensors will limit its speed and therefore reduce its temp if it gets too hot. Can anyone confirm if this is a windows or a chip function, I think it is chip.


I think it is a function of the CPU on-die sensor in cooperation with the chipset/motherboard. Way back ago, Tom's did an article/videos where they pulled a Heatsink off a Intel and AMD chip with some 'spectacular' results.

Find those articles and you have your answer.

Possibly... The answer I was trying to get to was would the thermal throttling take place without windows installed (or any OS). I can't imagine that it needs an OS for a safety feature.

My advice would be to install windows, the processor should protect itself. You can then see whether it is thermally throttling (by monitoring speed etc.) as that is the only temp detection that seems to work right now.
September 9, 2006 12:58:56 PM

Quote:
Your problem may be that you own an intel ;P


AMD Athlon FX-62 Thermal Design Power : 125W

Core 2 Extreme e6800 Thermal Design Power : 75W.

That puts the Athlon 66% higher than the Intel.

Now, I'm forced to assume that either:

1. You are another idiot fanboy that just makes blatantly incorrect sweeping statements with no facts.

2. You have been living under a rock for the last few months since Core 2's release, and decided to make a statement based on your info on the Smithfield/Prescott P4s @ 130w vs s939 Athlon X2 @ 89W, which, by the way, is proportionatly less of a difference than the one posted above.

Either way, the sarcastic and unhelpfull nature of your comment was unneeded.
a c 79 à CPUs
September 9, 2006 1:00:37 PM

Quote:
The new Conroe chips do run hot. They should be running 50-60C idle and up to 80C Load. Stop pussy footing around and buy a Thermaltake Big Water System they sell for $159 at Fry's. And fit every socket CPU out there. Water is the way, especially if your into overclocking. Temps rise slow and drop fast. Beats rise fast and drop slow! You can also check your bios settings for your fan. Disable the automatic cpu fan speed control and the HSF will run at max speed all the time. Good luck. :wink:


Thanks, but the fact that the hardware monitor is showing that its running at almost 90c is still a problem.

For gods sake ignore Hydro (not generally just in this case).

They do not run hot. The thermal limit is 60C BUT the temp detection software and off chip hardware i.e. the MOBO bios detection is not good and is often reading wrong. I am getting 35 in speedfan, 45 on mobo and 50 on RM clock. The thermal limit is 60 as the chip sees it, the only problem is that the chip doesn't tell anything else what it is seeing.

There have been many many threads about people getting 'whacky' temp readings and none about people buring them out because of it yet, if it had happened you'd hear them screaming from the next continent.
September 9, 2006 1:01:51 PM

Thanks, 13thmonkey, I'll do that right now.

I will keep you updated on my progress.
a c 79 à CPUs
September 9, 2006 1:04:31 PM

Version 0509 2006/09/08 update



Description P5B Release BIOS version 0509
1. Support DDR2 double side x16 module
2. Enable support for CPU ratio adjustment on Kentsfield B0 stepping CPU
3. Enable conroe/kentsfield ratio overclocking higher above default value
4. Fix CPU Fan profile mode not correct after system shotdown
5. Revise temperature reading algorithm
6. Update MRC code
7. Enhance memory compatibility for DDR533 and DDR667 modules.
8. Revise S3 fuction not stable when CPU FSB over 300MHz.
9. Add dram frequency help string



File Size 575.65 (KBytes)

Latest bios from Asus, it appears to resolve temp reading issues. Try it and see.
September 9, 2006 1:38:32 PM

Well now I've run into another problem...

I put in my xp pro disk to install windows on my raptor HDD. I put the cd rom as primary boot device,
then restart and turn up with a blinking insertion point in the top left hand corner of my screen.

Now, I make my older 160gb maxtor the master drive, and try to boot the windows that is already installed on that HDD.
This time, the BSoD shows up, then the PC restarts.

I've tried safe mode, different XP CD, but nothing so far. I can't think of what would be causing these problems.
Well, help is appreciated, and I hope to get this computer up and running by this afternoon :D 


By the way, in the device boot list, it shows two cd-roms, one called ATAPI CD-ROM, and the other DVD/RW drive.
a c 79 à CPUs
September 9, 2006 1:44:12 PM

Check cables, master/slave settings, try a different CD-Rom, check that your mobo isn't treating your SATA as a raid, use a RAID boot disk if needed. All things that you have probably done.

Sorry no other ideas on that one.
September 9, 2006 1:45:45 PM

Quote:
Check cables, master/slave settings, try a different CD-Rom, check that your mobo isn't treating your SATA as a raid, use a RAID boot disk if needed. All things that you have probably done.

Sorry no other ideas on that one.


Ok, I haven't tried a different CD-rom yet, so that will be my next step.
September 9, 2006 2:14:01 PM

Quote:
The new Conroe chips do run hot. They should be running 50-60C idle and up to 80C Load. Stop pussy footing around and buy a Thermaltake Big Water System they sell for $159 at Fry's. And fit every socket CPU out there. Water is the way, especially if your into overclocking. Temps rise slow and drop fast. Beats rise fast and drop slow! You can also check your bios settings for your fan. Disable the automatic cpu fan speed control and the HSF will run at max speed all the time. Good luck. :wink:


No No NO!!!

Core 2 should run 39c-44c in idle and no more then 59c on full load. More likely around 51c-53c. If your running 60+ you need to reseat the HSF. Here is the Intel site that defines the thermal properties of the Core 2's:

ftp://download.intel.com/design/processor/datashts/3132...

See chapter 5. It clearly shows that you should never get above 60.1c

Bottom line: If your getting above 53c, reseat the HSF or get a better one. I like the Thermaltake Big Typhoon, but any of the high end HSF's should work. Check out the "sticky" in the Overclocking CPU forum here on TG. The writer put together a great list of HSF for use with the Core 2. Make sure you apply thermal paste correctly. There are many posts with this info in the CPU forum.

Interstingly, this has probably been one of the most popular questions in the forumz since the Core 2 came out. I'm betting on a bad sensor in this case!

My Rig:
Core 2 Duo X6800 Conroe (Stock Clock for Now)
Intel D975XBXLRK
Thermaltake Big Typhoon HSF
2 GB Corsair Pro PC6400 4-4-4-15
74GB 10k Raptor
ATI X1900XTX
SB Audigy 2 ZS
NEC DVD OEM Burners (x2)
Ultra X-Finity 600w SLi Certified PS
Gigabyte 3D Aurora Case
September 9, 2006 2:15:27 PM

Quote:
The new Conroe chips do run hot. They should be running 50-60C idle and up to 80C Load. Stop pussy footing around and buy a Thermaltake Big Water System they sell for $159 at Fry's. And fit every socket CPU out there. Water is the way, especially if your into overclocking. Temps rise slow and drop fast. Beats rise fast and drop slow! You can also check your bios settings for your fan. Disable the automatic cpu fan speed control and the HSF will run at max speed all the time. Good luck. :wink:


Thanks, but the fact that the hardware monitor is showing that its running at almost 90c is still a problem.

For gods sake ignore Hydro (not generally just in this case).

They do not run hot. The thermal limit is 60C BUT the temp detection software and off chip hardware i.e. the MOBO bios detection is not good and is often reading wrong. I am getting 35 in speedfan, 45 on mobo and 50 on RM clock. The thermal limit is 60 as the chip sees it, the only problem is that the chip doesn't tell anything else what it is seeing.

There have been many many threads about people getting 'whacky' temp readings and none about people buring them out because of it yet, if it had happened you'd hear them screaming from the next continent.

You da MAN!
September 9, 2006 2:26:28 PM

Quote:
By the way, in the device boot list, it shows two cd-roms, one called ATAPI CD-ROM, and the other DVD/RW drive.


Not sure if I understand right but if you have 2 opticals installed, I'd pull one off till XP is installed.
September 9, 2006 4:29:08 PM

Well, windows is all installed, and I've installed Motherboard Monitor 5 and it still says about 80-85c :( 

Would my CPU even be running at these temps??
a c 79 à CPUs
September 9, 2006 4:35:45 PM

I was about to send you this link:
Similar problem

They seemed to having a similar Cd/IDE identification problem to you.

If it really were 80-85 it would be dead by now. Try using a different program, speedfan 4.29 etc.

Have you updated the Bios? I think that this may be a critical step.
September 9, 2006 4:59:24 PM

You need to supply more info. That kind of boot thing is usually a RAM problem. Check to make sure the timings are set right, etc.

You will have a hard time killing a Core 2 Duo. My stock HSF sucked balls and I could hit the throttle (it is 85c) at stock speeds. If you ever get to Windows you can use Everest or RMClock to watch it throttle if those temps are real.

Now I run 35c/45c load at stock speed...
September 9, 2006 5:32:36 PM

You need an alternate heat sensor.

I can't believe that C2D would run that hot.

Make sure the heatsink is correctly seated. Touch the heat sink(carefully, a light tap should do to start), if it burns then your CPU is way too hot. I'd bet that the heatsink is mildly warm and that your sensors are at fault.

65nm should mean lower temps!
September 9, 2006 5:44:14 PM

Quote:
The new Conroe chips do run hot. They should be running 50-60C idle and up to 80C Load. Stop pussy footing around and buy a Thermaltake Big Water System they sell for $159 at Fry's. And fit every socket CPU out there. Water is the way, especially if your into overclocking. Temps rise slow and drop fast. Beats rise fast and drop slow! You can also check your bios settings for your fan. Disable the automatic cpu fan speed control and the HSF will run at max speed all the time. Good luck. :wink:


Just to give you some sort of reference...
I just built my system about 2.5 wks ago. It has been running 24hrs since to make sure that if something's going to burn out I hope it does it within the 1st 30 days. I've already burnt a few DVD's & things & rendered a 6hr long family home video. No problems with heat so far.
My rig's CPU so far hasn't gone above 45c degrees since I 1st powered it up, my mobo reports that it hasn't gone over 45c degrees. It starts off at 42c degrees, then goes up upto 45c degrees. I don't OC anything new. I have the Thermaltake Silent 775 CPU fan/heatsink with Arctic Silver, the $10 one. I have two additional 120mm fans. One at the bottom front of the case sucking in air & one in the middle rear part of the case sucking out air, not to mention the stock 500watt PSU's fan which came with my ULTRA ATX case. I sandwiched the loose cabels that I could between the drive cages & the ATX case's solid non-removable panel which the mobo is crewed into so that there was as little air flow obstruction coming from or going to the fans.
See my rigs specs below. Hope this helps some. Good luck.
September 9, 2006 5:48:01 PM

Touching the heatsink won't tell you anything about the CPU's temperature if it's not seated properly... since the CPU's heat won't be conducted into the heatsink.
September 9, 2006 5:49:37 PM

I believe I did say 'Make sure the heatsink is correctly seated'!
September 9, 2006 5:50:33 PM

Quote:
Version 0509 2006/09/08 update



Description P5B Release BIOS version 0509

File Size 575.65 (KBytes)

Latest bios from Asus, it appears to resolve temp reading issues. Try it and see.


I have an ASUS P5B mobo. I only see BIOS update version 309 on their site. Is that correct or a typo on your part? If it's not a typo, can you send me the link cuz I can't find it on ASUS web site. Thanks.
September 9, 2006 5:51:55 PM

Quote:
I was about to send you this link:
Similar problem

They seemed to having a similar Cd/IDE identification problem to you.

If it really were 80-85 it would be dead by now. Try using a different program, speedfan 4.29 etc.

Have you updated the Bios? I think that this may be a critical step.



I've just downloaded speedfan, but it doesn't tell me my CPU temps, only mobo and fan speeds.

Anyway, I'm about to update my BIOS, so maybe that will do something.
September 9, 2006 5:58:27 PM

... and how would you know that the heatsink is seated properly?

Getting crazy temps?
1. your CPU could be burning
2. the thermal diode could be lying
3. the heatsink could be seated incorrectly

Test for #1:
Touch heatsink. If hot, you need better cooling. If not, suspect #2 or #3.

Test for #2 and #3:
Turn off heatsink fan. Open ThrottleWatch or RMclock, and wait for CPU to throttle. Record temperature for which the CPU throttles. I'll assume the CPU throttles at 70C in real life (someone correct me on this).
A. If you observe the CPU throttling at, say, 100C according to the temperature sensor, then you know the diode is lying by ~30C. Nothing to worry about here, just remember that the diode is way off.
B. If, on the other hand, you observe the CPU throttling at 70C, the thermal diode is accurate. You know that the heatsink is not seated properly.
September 9, 2006 6:09:14 PM

No trying to be facetious. But if you can't seat the heat sink correctly on a custom build then you should not be custom building with an expensive C2D chip. If it's his first build then I think the choice of system may have been a little expensive.

In my experience, if you run a chip without the heatsink correctly attached it would never get through a windows install because it would have fried within the first minute.

My guess is a dodgy sensor!
September 9, 2006 6:32:35 PM

The HSF is seated properly, I have redone the thermal grease 3 times, cleaning the heatsink and CPU accordingly, and none of which changed the hopefully inaccurate temperatures.

Now I'm trying evilr00t's idea, then I will be updating the bios.
September 9, 2006 6:36:26 PM

OK,

I had the same problem on my p5b deluxe wifi with an e6600.

Idle 49c and load above 60c. bios temp, no OS loaded.

Talked to intel and asus, asus had me download the new 507 bios, and install windows.

New temps from the asus probe II program off the driver cd-

38c idle, and 47c load.

Change the bios, and load windows (actually load windows first, very easy to update bios then from the asus update program on the driver cd).

Now, the HD problem.

In the bios, under IDE config, the first tab, halfway down, set your sata config to ide, not ACHI.

Use only one HD till it is up and running well with windows, cause for some reason this board does not like multiple drives unless they are in a raid setup.

These steps got me running.
a c 79 à CPUs
September 9, 2006 7:00:03 PM

Quote:
Version 0509 2006/09/08 update



Description P5B Release BIOS version 0509

File Size 575.65 (KBytes)

Latest bios from Asus, it appears to resolve temp reading issues. Try it and see.


I have an ASUS P5B mobo. I only see BIOS update version 309 on their site. Is that correct or a typo on your part? If it's not a typo, can you send me the link cuz I can't find it on ASUS web site. Thanks.

I was a cut and paste from their site. Sorry can't link. I just followed the downloads button on the P5B product site, and then reselected the P5B, and it gave me that Bios Update.
a c 79 à CPUs
September 9, 2006 7:21:24 PM

I'd question how they measured 81C, I get about a 20C spread on my temp figures depending on what I am reading them with.
a c 79 à CPUs
September 9, 2006 7:23:52 PM

Quote:
You need to supply more info. That kind of boot thing is usually a RAM problem. Check to make sure the timings are set right, etc.

You will have a hard time killing a Core 2 Duo. My stock HSF sucked balls and I could hit the throttle (it is 85c) at stock speeds. If you ever get to Windows you can use Everest or RMClock to watch it throttle if those temps are real.

Now I run 35c/45c load at stock speed...


Interesting, mine stock HSF seems to work fine. I agree the throttle is the only way to see if the temps are real, what does it throttle to? 6x or even lower?
September 9, 2006 7:39:37 PM

Alright I downloaded CoreTemp, and thte core temps are about 71c. On MotherboardMonitor, it shows 74c.

I have updated my BIOS as well, and I haven't tried the throttle testing yet.

And by the way... yes I took that crappy stock paste off...
a c 79 à CPUs
September 9, 2006 7:47:09 PM

Quote:
Alright I downloaded CoreTemp, and thte core temps are about 71c. On MotherboardMonitor, it shows 74c.

I have updated my BIOS as well, and I haven't tried the throttle testing yet.

And by the way... yes I took that crappy stock paste off...


Alright, that blows my theory out of the water if it is still showing interesting temps after the Bios Update.

At 70 ish I'd imagine it would be getting close to throttling, find an app that you can monitor the speed with RM clock works OK for this, but for me gives dodgy temps, and see what happens when you load it up? As a earlier poster said, if it throttles at 100C then you kow you have a offset problem, if it throttles at 80C then you know you have a hot chip.

Of course it is your decision to do this and I take no responsibility for the results. You may decide that it would be better to send it back.

By the way what is your Vcore at the moment, at idle 1600Mhz, and at load 2400Mhz? It could be your Vcore is too high, which would be a mobo fault.
September 9, 2006 7:53:34 PM

I just did the throttling test, and here are the results are... the CPU got up to 85 or 86 at most,
once it started telling me that my CPU is gonna blow up if I keep going.

Now I believe from the theories I've heard, this means that I have a hot chip.

Ok, my Vcore... Well on CPU-Z, where it says voltage (I'm guessing its the Vcore) its about between 2.250 - 2.300.


One weird thing though is that when I touch my HS, its actually quite cool, not what I was expecting.

Yeah I know, your gonna say I mounted it wrong, but I seriously don't think there is anything wrong with how I mounted it.

Actually, if you want, I can remount the HSF and take pictures so I can show how I do it.
What I do is clean the top of the CPU and bottom of the HSF, put a drop of Arctic Silver on the center of the CPU,
and mount the HSF, which I make sure is fully pushed down... which I hate doing because you have to push so hard on the mobo.
September 9, 2006 8:36:38 PM

bump :( 
September 9, 2006 8:54:29 PM

how are the knobs in the HSF oriented when you push them in?
a c 79 à CPUs
September 9, 2006 9:10:39 PM

Sorry I was away, that Vcore is very very very wrong.

Should be 1.1V at idle and 1.3ishV at normal working voltage.

Thats why you are a bit hot

Now why it is happening I do not know.

However it is possible that this has caused damage, start talking to you supplier on monday.
September 9, 2006 9:13:33 PM

The Vcore can't be 2.25ish - the CPU would have fried on first boot. The Vcore sensor seems to be really inaccurate on a lot of C2D boards.
a c 79 à CPUs
September 9, 2006 9:17:49 PM

In which case it is casue for an RMA I'd say. I was a little surprised to see that it was still working if it really is >2V seems odd as voltage is a piece of cake to measure, I can understand them getting temp wrong, but Volts seems wrong to me for that kind of error. It would also explain very well the high temps.

RMA the Mobo and CPU and see what happens.
September 9, 2006 9:27:55 PM

Let me ask you a stupid question, are you sure the temps you are reading are Celsius and not Fahrenheit?

Assuming you have set the HSF right, are the temps still high after you updated the bios? Did you get the bios from Asus website? Try installing PC Probe which is in the Asus CD and look at the temps and vcore there. If vcore is showing 2.0+V, something is seriously wrong because the system will never boot at that vcore.
September 9, 2006 9:33:41 PM

yeh :D  I was about to ask the same question :D 
September 9, 2006 9:35:51 PM

Alright, I've just re-applied the HSF and thermal grease again, and guess what?
The temps went down! BUT only to about 51c idle.

I'm going to install PC Probe and give you guys the info on that.

And no... lol they're celcius :p 
!