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Pentium III-S compatibility

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September 9, 2006 4:19:05 PM

I have an i810E motherboard from a Dell desktop, and I'd like to upgrade the processor from a Celeron (Coppermine) 700. After a lot of research, I think it may be compatible with a Pentium III Tualatin CPU. It all comes down to whether or not it's a revision B board. I've got a few questions for the hardware experts.

How can I tell if this is a revision B i810E motherboard?

If a Tualatin CPU will work, should a Pentium III-S CPU work as well?

The motherboard only supports PC-100 memory officially, but it also supports a 133fsb. The new processor will use the 133fsb, so should I buy PC-133 memory for the PC-100 system or try to run the PC-100 memory at 133? Is there a way to jumper this board to set the memory clock speed to fsb minus 33 or something?
September 9, 2006 4:21:48 PM

I don't think the chipset is B-stepping as Celeron 700 is much earlier than Tualatin's launch.
September 9, 2006 7:53:52 PM

Is there a way to tell for sure? Maybe an examination of the board itself? I'm running Gentoo Linux if there is software that will tell. lspci just says (rev 3).

If it is compatible with Tualatin, would a Pentium III-S CPU work as well?

In case anyone is curious:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pentium_III#Tualatin
Related resources
September 9, 2006 8:26:30 PM

Hey ggking7

I am using right now what you want. Pentium III-S 1.4Ghz SL6BY.
Let me tell you something first. There is no such thing as 810 B-step motherboard. The only chipset who got a B-step revision are the ones with the 815 chipset. So forget such thing as 810 B-step.

Now, Not all tualatins will work with all the boards. First you gotta make sure the board you choose, supports tualatins (the voltage etc), then 512kb of cache if you are going with PIII-S cpu's cuz you dont want to end up using only 256kb. Some motherboard will work with Server tualatins but they will only show they are using 256kb of L2.

In addition, Pentium III-S's will work only on dual-cpu motherboards and non-intel motherboard. If you get an Intel motherboard and put a Server Tualatin in there, it will not work

But...

It will if you pick the right BIOS file. That happened to me with my 815 A-step. I wanted to build my system so fast that I upgraded the BIOS to the last one and it blocked the use of Server tualatins. So I had to downgrade the BIOS to an earlier one. Of course I was using a Tualatin adapter cuz 815 A-step motherboard dont have native support for tualatins.

In conclusion, if you want to use any Tualatin just make sure you get the right board that says TUALATIN COMPATIBLE.
If you want a Server tualatin, make sure you get a non-intel motherboard or it will give you problems.

If you still have any question im here to help.

Check this out, this is my 815 A-step with my Tualatin

http://img244.imageshack.us/img244/6149/dibujoms2.jpg
September 9, 2006 8:43:33 PM

A quick jaunt over to Upgradeware or Powerleap's web sites will most likely have any info you need along with tested configurations and appropriate BIOS. Sometimes as was the case with my IBM, they provided me with an updated microcode to recognize newer cpus. And you will not have to worry about voltage requirements. Oh and if that has a memory bridge chip on it , get yourself a heat sink of good quality, copper, and cool it. I had a dell with an i810 it was a dog and upgrading the cpu did little as the memory is a major bottleneck. As far as modding or OC'ing a Dell or trying to drive the memory to faster speeds I wouldn't recommend it at all.
I upgraded to a P3 Cu-mine at 133 fsb no change in performance unless you count it killing the psu, proprietary Dell one, and then a little later the board popped.
September 9, 2006 9:02:30 PM

Yes he can do that get an adapter even from eBay, but he says he wants to use 133mhz FSB and that will limit him because his 810 only uses 100mhz FSB. He will have to go with Celerons and stay with PC100
September 10, 2006 3:18:13 AM

His post is what he can do with a Dell i810 motherboard. He could run a 133 MHz fsb but not a 133 MHz memory clock 100 or 66 only. See Intel http://www.intel.com/design/chipsets/mature/index.htm?iid=ipp_810chpst+hghlt_chart&
First step if he is dead set on a 133fsb seeing what i810 he has http://downloadfinder.intel.com/scripts-df-external/Product_Filter.aspx?ProductID=861&lang=eng
If an e or e2 is identified it is 133 capable. If not it still might be but looking at what's under the Northbridge heat sink is necessary. As for the logic in all this just to try to see if it can accommodate a cpu that has no place on this board, at a cost beyond any reason is beyond me. You want a Tualatin get the Tualatin Celeron with 256k l2 cache at 1.2 or 1.4 ghz on a slot kit someone already has tested preferably with its own power source. More performance then that board can even use, at a MUCH lower price. All with no hassles about whether it will boot , voltage requirements or if the boards caps are going pop after trying to feed a server chip. Trust me it will make little or no difference running asynchronous bus, memory speeds. The i810 is no Bx and a Tualatin Celeron is more than you could need on such a limited platform.
September 10, 2006 2:39:59 PM

Yes Im sorry I made a mistake right there. He can use 133mhz processors. What he wont be able to use is the memory at 133mhz which will make it CAS2 at 100mhz.

Now, He might also experience cache problems since 810 were not made for 512kb L2. He can just try.

I recommend he goes for the SL6C6 which can be get on eBay for really nice price compared to the SL6BY which goes over $60
September 10, 2006 3:09:45 PM

The board is an i810E which will run at 133FSB.

You recommend I get a Tualatin Celeron 1.4 with a slot kit, but I shouldn't need a slot kit right? That CPU is socket 370 and so is my motherboard. I called Dell yesterday and they told me my motherboard is Tualatin compatible.

Also, a P3-S isn't expensive. I've already bought a 1.26 on eBay shipped and guaranteed non-DOA for $31.

Now, if PC-100 memory is such a bottleneck, maybe I shouldn't even bother. Are you saying that no CPU upgrade will make a difference in this system because of the PC-100 memory? Or are you saying there won't be a difference between a Tualatin Celeron 100FSB and P3-S 133FSB because of the PC-100 memory? What about a non-server Tualatin P3 133FSB?
September 10, 2006 3:18:19 PM

I never heard of an 810 tualatin compatible to be serious. If Dell told you that then... you can try I think.

A P3-S is expensive if we talk about the 1.4Ghz version. I dont know about the 1.26Ghz because I was never interested on them.

Yes there is a difference between Celeron and P3-S 133mhz. Those 33mhz makes a difference when the memory and FSB is 133mhz. Normally any system would run at 133mhz FSB and memory too. But in this case, since your motherboard only supports 100Mhz memory, there will be a bottleneck in there.

But, since you are saying you are using a 700mhz CPU right now, Anything above 1.1Ghz will show a difference in perfomance in your system. But I wouldnt recommend any celeron below 1.3Ghz or any Pentium III below 1.2Ghz. And also, have in mind you will need system memory in order to have everything running like it should because you dont want to upgrade the CPU only. I have 512mb right now at 133mhz with CAS3 and it runs great!
September 10, 2006 3:32:39 PM

Will the bottleneck caused by the 100mhz memory completely negate the benefit of a 133mhz FSB?
September 10, 2006 3:37:20 PM

No, but just make sure that you get a good memory. Whatever memory you get should have a CAS Latency of 2 when using it in 100mhz mode. Which I belive should be easy to get.

Right now im using a PNY PC133 SDRAM single stick and it can be runned in two modes. 100mhz mode and 133mhz mode. When using it in 100mhz mode it will have a CAS Latency of 2, when using it in 133mhz mode, it will have a CAS Latency of 3.

Those little things will give your system an advantage.
September 10, 2006 4:49:56 PM

Okay, did Dell tell you that your board was just Tualatin capable? Here is the thing your board and your BIOS might be capable that is it is in the microcode of the Bios to recognize the Tualatin. However is your socket, socket 370 FCPGA or what is sometimes called s370ii the socket 370 FCPGA2. That is why I recommended an adapter. There is no way that they are interchangeable as there are different pin outs. You have to be totally sure it is FCPGA2!!!! And I am guessing no way, sorry but be sure when you talk to Dell. And as far as I know ever bench done this side of the verse has shown asynchronous memory is bad. There is little to no benefit in most cases reduces performance due to latency of communication between CPU, memory controllers, etc... The only time you really see any benefit is if you’re working with high clock speeds and a significantly faster memory speed than your FSB. You might see a tiny increase in video frames, Like 2, in gaming if you have a real fast Agp card but other than that no way. My point in all this is, the Tualatin Celerons are cheap, available and will suck less power from you poor Dell mobo, at absolutely no difference in performance. You would seriously need like a 1mb or more cache increase to feel any difference. The chipset and board is what will be slowing you down. All these numbers are available to view from Anand tech to Tom's Hardware. Oh and also most hi quality pc 100 runs 133 no prob Tom's covered that too! This is all old news, I am not trying to steer you wrong I’ve been down this road a thousand times with SETI@home farm trying to squeeze a few more work units out of some old machines to just crunch numbers 24hrs a day. You can see the performance trends in real life that everyone has shown in benches already. If you want a Tualatin and can use the Tualatin get the celeron. If you get all greens from Dell and you can get a 512k of cache P3 for a good price go for it. But it is more than the chipset was designed for, and definitely beyond the boards power parameters. Lighting up all that cache at a big clock increase on an old board, well that is another story.
September 10, 2006 5:21:05 PM

Ok, a couple questions for you.

The asynchronous memory issue could be resolved by running quality PC-100 memory at 133 right?

More important is the FCPGA/FCPGA2 issue. I'm not going to buy an adapter for $50 and I can't find one on eBay. Tell me this. Would an FCPGA CPU fit in an FCPGA2 board? My current Celeron 700 CPU must be FCPGA right?

It's starting to sound like I should stick with Coppermine.
September 10, 2006 5:30:17 PM

I hate to sound so negative, but man this is a lot of trouble (and potential money) for such a dated system. Yes, the later P3s were faster than the P4's when comparing similarly clocked CPUs... but so much has changed now.
September 10, 2006 5:34:01 PM

I truly do not believe you can use anything other than a FCPGA socket 370 CPU without adapters. I had a 933 and 733 with no updates I think the 1ghz after Bios Ao6 but I am a little sketching on the Bios it has been a while.
As far as memory and bus speeds just stick with what memory you have but try upping the memory timings in the bios if you can I think Dell autodetects. If you are looking to upgrade just get CAS2 quality dimms. You can get 133 dimms but they will run at 100 but they can handle tighter timings at 100. Be sure they are low density compatibility guaranteed modules or Kingston something along those line.
Really a 1ghz P3 and 512mb of ram should rock your socks on a nix distro as long as it isn't a major scientific work station.
September 10, 2006 5:35:40 PM

Amen Brother!!!
September 10, 2006 5:38:39 PM

Quote:
Amen Brother!!!


Seriously though, plenty for day to day use on a nix box.
September 10, 2006 5:42:19 PM

Actually, this link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pentium_III

says:

"the heat-spreader is what distinguishes the FC-PGA2 package from the FC-PGA - both are for Socket 370 motherboards"

It doesn't sound like the FC-PGA/FC-PGA2 difference has anything to do with motherboard compatibility.

Also, the same link says the P3-S has a lower power consumption, not higher.
September 10, 2006 5:54:54 PM

It's actually for a MythTV box.
September 10, 2006 5:55:31 PM

Please do your research on Intel's web site. Wikipedia is not appropriate for academic circles or critically important research. Also transistor per transistor, clock for clock consumption is less but twice the cache and twice the clock. Voltage could be lower but draw is going to be more I believe. Also why not search the site of the forum you are on. This is all ancient history and has all been over time and time again. You only get what you pay for in life Wikipedia is free, nuff said.
Disclaimer for Linux users:
Linux is Unix and people paid a load of money for Unix!
September 10, 2006 5:59:09 PM

The PIII tualatins did have similar power consumption figures as their coppermine brothers, due to the .13 Micron die shrink.

The i810E chipset is limite BY DESIGN to 100 fsb. You could run a Tualatin PIII and put in some PC133 ram, but the i810E will run the ram at 100 MHz, as it has no 133 MHz setting. That's the big difference between it and the i815 chipset. Unless you already have the Tualatin PIII, why not try to pin mod your 700 MHz coppermine to the 133 fsb, giving you a 933 MHz coppermine? There's a good chance it will work, and it costs you absolutely nothing.
September 10, 2006 6:01:05 PM

Quote:
It's actually for a MythTV box.



My condolences, I have have done pvrs all with ended up with all in wonders. Not worth the trouble or time to mix and match parts software etc.
September 10, 2006 6:02:02 PM

see for yourself:
September 10, 2006 6:13:17 PM

I would be willing to concede the power consumption issue.I would feel better about it if it was the white paper from Intel or specifying 512k cache cpu as the shrink would be almost negated by the extra cache. But again this is all ancient history has little to do with the overall issue. That has been totally explored at this point.
September 10, 2006 6:37:36 PM

The bigger question here is why this guy would need a PIII-s to run MythTV. The PVR150 is usually the standard capture card used in a MythTV build, and since it is a hardware capture card, the cpu is not important. A 700 MHz Coppermine is powerful enough to play back mpeg2. Hell a K6-2 can play mpeg2. Besides, all graphics chips from 2000 and newer have hardware mpeg2 decoding built in, meaning once again the cpu doesn't matter for mpeg2. The 700 MHz Coppermine is also fast enough for DivX/mpeg4. My friend's PII 450 is just barely fast enough to play DivX files, the Coppermine 700 is more than enough. Seriously, unless the Myth box will also be doing some transcoding, it doesn't need more than the 700 mHz Coppermine. Save your money.
September 10, 2006 6:46:01 PM

Quote:
The bigger question here is why this guy would need a PIII-s to run MythTV. The PVR150 is usually the standard capture card used in a MythTV build, and since it is a hardware capture card, the cpu is not important. A 700 MHz Coppermine is powerful enough to play back mpeg2. Hell a K6-2 can play mpeg2. Besides, all graphics chips from 2000 and newer have hardware mpeg2 decoding built in, meaning once again the cpu doesn't matter for mpeg2. The 700 MHz Coppermine is also fast enough for DivX/mpeg4. My friend's PII 450 is just barely fast enough to play DivX files, the Coppermine 700 is more than enough. Seriously, unless the Myth box will also be doing some transcoding, it doesn't need more than the 700 mHz Coppermine. Save your money.


Agreed.

Digital convergence is a lie! :D 
September 10, 2006 7:04:22 PM

I'm seeing some dropped frames on interlaced DVDs (Curb Your Enthusiasm, Da Ali G Show), but not on cinematic ones.

If you think a Celeron 700 will be enough, I'll give it a try first. My PVR150 is on its way. I really don't think my onboard video does MPEG2 decoding though.

Overclocking the Celeron 700 with a 100fsb sounds like it might be worth a try. I'm going to post another topic about that.

Also, why is digital convergence a lie?
September 10, 2006 7:51:12 PM

I have owned several 810E computers in the past, and I'm sure they have some hardware acceleration for mpeg2 playback. I just checked Intel's site, and they say the 810E has hardware motion compensation, which according to this link decreases the CPU load by 20% as compared to no hardware acceleration at all. Can you see how much CPU % is being used to play those DVDs that drop frames? If the cpu isn't maxed out, it's not the problem.

Check to see if your i810E is the DC100 model (it should say DC100 right on the chip if it is), as it has 4 MB of dedicated memory for it's IGP. If it's not, that may be the reason the you're experiencing dropped frames. Still, there are better graphics solutions. ATI's Rage Pro and Rage 128 have not only HMC but iDCT, making them some of the best DVD-playing graphics chipsets out there (especially so in 1998). A 16MB PCI version of the ATI Rage 128 can be found on Ebay for pennies. The only problem with that is I've heard ATI doesn't work well in Linux.

Also, the program you use for DVD playing on your computer has a fairly large impact on how well the DVD plays. What program are you currently using to playback your DVDs? Is there any other program out there you could try? Perhaps a different algorithm is all that's needed to get past those dropped frame rate issues.

Good luck on the MythTV build. :wink:
September 10, 2006 8:35:08 PM

Use a utility like SANDRA (google search should fing it for you) and run it. Check the mainboard section and it'll tell you your chipset with all possible details including revision of the board you're using and also the motherboard maker. It's a small download at less than 10 MB.

With that go on both Intel and Dell site to check chipset and BIOS compatibility with this cpu.
Good luck!
!